IRC log for #devuan on 20210519

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07:30.31raspbeguyhello
07:31.09raspbeguyI am running devuan with runit. I can't find services files when installing nginx for instance
07:32.08raspbeguySo if I understand correctly, services files for other init than sysvinit are not packaged, am I right?
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07:46.23xinomiloyes, in debian just a few runit scripts are packaged
07:46.33xinomilothere's a thread in the dev1galaxy.org forum
07:46.43xinomilowith some "experimental" scripts and instructions
07:48.22raspbeguyok, so right now it is safer to use sysvinit for production
07:49.40CAPTCHA_REQUIREDhow do I remove this shit from my computer? https://cdn.nuegia.net/ce254782-b9e7-4130-bcb5-9ea992e61e1a/screenshot.png
07:50.10CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI disabled pocket so I shouldn't have to deal with propaganda and ads in my browser
07:50.19CAPTCHA_REQUIREDor rather
07:50.22CAPTCHA_REQUIREDdoesn
07:50.31CAPTCHA_REQUIREDdoesn't the debian version disable pocket by default?
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07:54.42*** mode/#devuan [+o ChanServ] by services.
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08:08.13xrogaanCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: about:config -> extensions.pocket.enabled
08:08.46CAPTCHA_REQUIREDhey, idk if you can see the scrollback but it think freenode just got hacked
08:09.14xrogaanwhat do you mean?
08:09.31CAPTCHA_REQUIREDall the staff just got their connection killed
08:09.37CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand chanserv just restarted
08:10.40xrogaanmaybe related: https://gist.github.com/joepie91/df80d8d36cd9d1bde46ba018af497409
08:12.16lts-There was also an obnoxious user ##elsewhere a few hours ago who claimed to have 0days against Freenode who said he's going to use them momentarily. Maybe he really did.
08:13.27xrogaanthat would make much more sense.
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08:23.02onefang"ChanServ left the room (quit: Killed (grumble (My fellow staff so-called 'friends' are about to hand over account data to a non-staff member. If you care about your data, drop your NickServ account NOW before that happens.)))." is what just happened, and several others with the same message.
08:23.38CAPTCHA_REQUIREDoh isn't this fun
08:25.36lts-Ah, I didn't see the kill message. Weechat smart filtering sometimes backfires
08:26.20onefangThere was half a dozen of them.
08:26.45CAPTCHA_REQUIREDall the freenode staff and services
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08:28.09lts-Well, I assume the worst case scenario is that the freenode volunteers start free-ernode and there is a mass migration
08:31.51buZzlts-: they've already started
08:32.36buZzhttps://libera.chat/  , not live yet though
08:36.01CAPTCHA_REQUIREDworst case is now
08:36.19CAPTCHA_REQUIREDsomebody is gonna harvest all the nickserv data
08:37.22onefangSooo, my nickname, and the special freenode email address I used so I can see if Freenode leaked it to spammers, and the unique password I use here.
08:37.29lts-ditto
08:37.59onefangDon't think there's any actual personal data in there.  YMMV
08:38.34xrogaandevuan's staff might want to secure channels on a secondary network
08:40.40onefangWe are already looking into that.
08:41.09Unit193I think there's one that starts with an 'L', so I hear.
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08:42.27onefangFor us Devuan devs, I already offered the prosody server I already run on one of the package mirrors, and another dev was also already running Prosody on his server.
08:42.50crashoverrideguys, how about moving to OFTC?
08:42.53xinomiloonefang, email, name(if full) are personal data and i believe freenode stores it someplace..
08:42.57onefangSo we got this covered, we just have to decide what to do, then do it.
08:43.42xrogaanI think OFTC would be sensible.
08:44.15xinomiloxmpp is decentralized, seems like a better option :)
08:44.23buZzonefang: at least passwords are hashed
08:44.25buZzdno about salted
08:44.38CAPTCHA_REQUIRED»  <xinomilo> xmpp is decentralized, seems like a better option :)
08:44.38CAPTCHA_REQUIREDthis
08:44.49Unit193enc:pbkdf2v2
08:44.52xinomilohttps://delta.chat looks nice too
08:44.53buZzppl want irc, not notirc
08:44.54buZz:D
08:45.08xinomilosomething sustainable too :P
08:45.11xrogaanxinomilo: it's also something I don't use.
08:45.29xrogaanoh, and xmpp clients are garbage, most of the time.
08:45.31xinomiloyou dont use email? :o :D
08:46.00CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyou can use xmpp like irc
08:46.04CAPTCHA_REQUIREDwith anonymous login
08:46.22CAPTCHA_REQUIREDas well as bosh, for a web based anonymous groupchat joining think akin to kiwi
08:46.48CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand there's a python script server componet that exposes xmpp mucs as a minimal irc server
08:47.05CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand there's biboumi network transport for forwards compatibility
08:47.28CAPTCHA_REQUIREDclient's like poezio support anon login, and they are similar in ui to weechat or irssi
08:48.03CAPTCHA_REQUIREDhell
08:48.10*** join/#devuan fluffywolf (~furrywolf@172.58.44.123)
08:48.12CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI'm connected to this channel via XMPP right now
08:48.18onefangIf you have a gmail address, you have an XMPP address already.  Google was gonna kill that off, but decided not to.
08:48.32CAPTCHA_REQUIREDonefang: since when?
08:48.41xinomiloi thought google killed xmpp years ago
08:48.47CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI have not been able to connect to gmail.com since years
08:48.55CAPTCHA_REQUIREDthey shut off federation
08:49.18onefangSince many years ago.  Initially through Google Talk, which changed name  afew times, now called Hangouts I think.
08:49.50CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyeah they rebranded to hangouts which is with the s2s module for federation
08:49.58CAPTCHA_REQUIRED*without the s2s
08:49.59onefangMeh I moved the last of my friends off Hangouts when they initially said they was shutting it down.
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10:20.04pepe80Hello!
10:20.05pepe80I am new to Devuan and I am not familiar with the alternative to systemd.
10:20.05pepe80Please can you help me?
10:20.06pepe80- How do I find out what is the system ini of my server?
10:20.37crashoverridepepe80: you look what binary is pid1
10:21.32pepe80Sorry, I'm just getting started.
10:21.33pepe80Can you tell me how?
10:22.42fsmithredcat /proc/1/comm
10:22.59orcus-depstree should display a nice "graph" of process parents/children
10:23.45crashoverridefsmithred: that's only part of the answer
10:23.58crashoverridesudo sh -c 'command -v $(cat /proc/1/comm)'
10:24.02crashoverridethis is how
10:24.12orcus-deand if you add -p .. it will show the PID of the according process too: pstree -p
10:24.45crashoverrideorcus-de: that's ultra verbose :P
10:26.45pepe80Init!!!! Thank you
10:27.54crashoverridepepe80: technically: `sudo sh -c 'dpkg -S $(command -v $(cat /proc/1/comm))'` is the proper command
10:28.07fsmithredwhy?
10:28.37orcus-deas it's looking more nerdy
10:29.00onefanglol
10:30.11rrqreadlink -f /proc/1/exe
10:30.20crashoverridefsmithred: gives you the actual name of the init.
10:30.23crashoverridefsmithred: instead of just 'init'
10:30.36fsmithreddidn't give me anything
10:30.55crashoverridefsmithred: did you copy-paste?
10:31.20fsmithredoh, it works as root
10:31.27crashoverridewell, duuh :D
10:31.46crashoverrideI don't add `sudo` to mean `$`
10:32.09fsmithredthat's the first I've seen a builtin only work for root.
10:32.31fsmithredor maybe just the first I've noticed
10:32.41crashoverrideyeah possibly.
10:32.50crashoverridebut also, it could be considered a bug I suppose
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10:39.48CAPTCHA_REQUIREDfreenode is dying btw
10:40.09CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyou people should consider moving this chat elsewhere
10:40.09crashoverrideyes.
10:40.14crashoverrideplease move over to OFTC people.
10:40.18crashoverrideI second CAPTCHA_REQUIRED
10:40.19CAPTCHA_REQUIREDwell
10:40.33CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI would suggest XMPP, but OFTC is better than freenode
10:41.01onefangPlease explain what OFTC is to those that don't know.
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10:41.46onefangI've suggested XMPP to the other Devuan devs as well.
10:41.51crashoverrideonefang: OFTC is another network, that isn't being taken over by an aggressive company linked to gray-zone (to put it nicely) businesses, money laundry, and various questionable activiities.
10:41.57CAPTCHA_REQUIREDhttps://www.oftc.net/
10:42.17crashoverrideIt also has proper governance, is actually meant to be for open source from this very inception.
10:42.23CAPTCHA_REQUIREDcrashoverride: it's sid from toy story
10:43.09CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI wouldn't mind hosting it
10:43.23crashoverridein addition, the company taking over freenode (the parent company of PIA, that has previously managed MtGox) has been using legal threats to get their way in, after buying a few key members.
10:43.34crashoverrideCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: I would mind someone hosting it.
10:43.39CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit's just a matter of adding another vhost for me, and i've already got anonymous logon, webchat, and all the works set up
10:43.50crashoverridein addition, anonymous chat over xmpp is not by design.
10:44.02CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyeah it is
10:44.05crashoverrideIRC does not have compulsory accounts registeration by default, and that is great.
10:44.09CAPTCHA_REQUIREDthers' a xep
10:44.10crashoverrideanonymous.
10:44.14crashoverridenot encrypted.
10:44.23CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyes encrypted
10:44.39onefangI've been running XMPP servers for many years.  On my server that is one of the Devuan package mirrors.
10:44.40crashoverrideI'm saying "anonymous"
10:44.45crashoverrideyou're saying "encrypted"
10:44.49CAPTCHA_REQUIREDboth
10:44.50crashoverridenot the same thing
10:45.00CAPTCHA_REQUIREDconnect to anon.nuegia.net with a client like poezio
10:45.08CAPTCHA_REQUIREDalso that's how webchat works
10:45.10onefangXMPP can do both, though maybe not at the same time.
10:45.20CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit just connects via bosh over the anonymous logon
10:45.55CAPTCHA_REQUIREDtry it https://www.nuegia.net/converse/
10:46.10crashoverridemyeah.
10:46.20crashoverridehow is it better than IRC?
10:46.28CAPTCHA_REQUIREDfor one it's federated
10:46.33crashoverrideIRC is too.
10:46.40CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand it's actually designed to be extendable from the get go
10:46.44CAPTCHA_REQUIREDunlike irc
10:46.48crashoverridemakes it harder for people to run bots on old hardware because it requres XML libraries?
10:46.54crashoverrides/qu/qui/
10:46.59CAPTCHA_REQUIREDno
10:47.12CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyou can run mcabber on a 486 no problem
10:47.12crashoverridewell, yeah, it does require XML libraries to implement any interaction.
10:47.36onefangI wrote an XML library once, it's tiny.
10:47.39CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand crashoverride IRC doesn't really have federation in the same way
10:47.43adhocthe over head of irc is tiny by comparison
10:47.50crashoverrideadhoc: +1
10:47.55crashoverridekinda my point.
10:48.00CAPTCHA_REQUIREDoh
10:48.00adhocirc does not need federation
10:48.09CAPTCHA_REQUIREDand you don't need bouncers
10:48.11crashoverridelook, I'm not saying xmpp is a bad idea
10:48.19crashoverridebut JUST xmpp is.
10:48.43CAPTCHA_REQUIREDif poezio or profanity don't work for you
10:48.44adhocare tghere any CLI xmpp clients that allow anonymous logins with encryption ?
10:48.56CAPTCHA_REQUIREDtere's always that python script that exposes xmpp mucs as irc channels
10:49.04CAPTCHA_REQUIREDadhoc: yes poezio
10:49.09adhocok
10:49.10onefangHTTPS web clients using bosh.
10:49.25adhocwhat is bosh ?
10:49.32CAPTCHA_REQUIREDxmpp over a websocket
10:49.38onefangAn interface between web clients and XMPP.
10:50.21crashoverridepoezio looks like weechat
10:50.34CAPTCHA_REQUIREDthat's the idea
10:50.40crashoverrideI hate weechat.
10:50.48crashoverrideany irssi looking client? :D
10:50.56*** join/#devuan freemangordon (~ivo@46.249.74.23)
10:51.03onefangThere's plenty of clients to choose.  lol
10:51.09crashoverrideyeah maybe.
10:51.14crashoverridenever really tried xmpp
10:51.29crashoverrideseems to me that the increased complexity adds nothing really.
10:51.44onefangAnd IRC <-> XMPP bridges.  I've done both ways.
10:51.47crashoverrideomg poezio is in python.
10:52.00CAPTCHA_REQUIREDcrashoverride: in the faq there's links to several others
10:52.09crashoverrideCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: what FAQ?
10:52.20CAPTCHA_REQUIREDhttps://poez.io/en/
10:52.39crashoverrideah poezio is a french software :D
10:52.43onefangActually I suggest we take this conversation to #devuan-dev.  It's out of topic for this support channel.
10:52.47crashoverridethat explains a lot :P
10:52.53crashoverrideonefang: yeah
10:53.37crashoverrideoh yeah I've been using profanity
10:53.41crashoverrideI hated every second of it.
10:53.53CAPTCHA_REQUIREDso salty
10:53.57crashoverridelooks like irssi
10:54.02crashoverridebut behaves like windows millenium.
10:54.44crashoverridealso, I'll move over to #Devuan-dev once it is -r
10:55.32crashoverrideforcing people to leak personal data to London Trust Media Inc. just to talk there seems a liiiiiittle bit too much.
10:55.41onefangI would have suggested #devuan-offtopic, but I don't wanna go there myself.  lol
10:55.55crashoverrideonefang: you know you can ignore the activity on a chan while being there right?
10:56.13crashoverride(not ignore what is written, just ignore the activity, so you only see what is happening when you actually check it)
10:56.15onefangI'm a compulsive speed reader.  :-P
10:56.31crashoverridewho is running out of excuses :D
10:56.47crashoverrideonefang: please join here for this discussion ;)
10:56.52crashoverrides/he/the/
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11:01.12CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit
11:03.14crashoverrideCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: wtf?
11:03.32CAPTCHA_REQUIREDwhatthewhat?
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11:22.28djphcrashoverride: aw, you've abandoned us :(
11:23.48crashoverridedjph: yeah, and so is more than half of freenode.
11:24.05crashoverrideit is a good filter to see what projects actually care about staying FOSS.
11:24.21CAPTCHA_REQUIREDlike all the projects that are still on github
11:24.44crashoverridedepends.
11:24.49crashoverrideif they are on github only, yes.
11:24.58crashoverrideif they are on github for a mirror
11:30.55adhocgitlab has only gotten bigger since github was purchased
11:31.13crashoverrideyeah
11:32.07adhoctheir development pace has increased too =)
11:33.20CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit's a big bloated dumpster fire of javascript
11:33.30crashoverrideyes.
11:33.32crashoverridetotally agreed.
11:33.46CAPTCHA_REQUIREDthe rate at which they have added fuel to that dumpster fire has increased
11:33.48adhocgithub? i agree
11:33.55crashoverrideI mean, github is much worse than gitlab, but both are.
11:34.04CAPTCHA_REQUIREDI was talking about gitlab, but both
11:34.15adhocgitlab is mostly written in Ruby
11:34.41CAPTCHA_REQUIREDat least github even works at all witthout javascript
11:35.07CAPTCHA_REQUIREDcan't say the same for gitlab
11:35.27CAPTCHA_REQUIREDall gitlab does is chug my computer dropping to single digit fps
11:44.15adhocCAPTCHA_REQUIRED: that may be the case, at least there are viable alternatives.
11:48.16pepe80I see that you guys are very involved in this with a very high level.
11:48.16pepe80Is there any place where I can learn Devuan without being in the way?
11:48.17pepe80A chat, forum or site where the newbies can solve our doubts?
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11:50.40adhocpepe80: yes, right here.
11:50.43adhocyou are not in the way.
11:50.48adhocwhat do you need to know ?
11:51.41pepe80I need to know how to create and mantain a service like with systemd but with init
11:51.56onefangThis is the right place to be, it just goes off the rails sometimes.
11:52.41adhocpepe80: you have init scripts that start and stop the services.
11:53.05pepe80that is what I need to learn
11:53.05adhocyou have a look in /etc/init.d/
11:53.25adhocclassically unix systems have run levels.
11:53.54adhocthis is still the case for the default system, although there are others, but I am not familiar with them.
11:55.05adhocpepe80: what is the service you would like to run ?
11:55.15adhocas it may already have an init script.
11:56.16*** join/#devuan Schoumi (~schoumi@ns310888.ip-188-165-204.eu)
11:56.37CAPTCHA_REQUIREDyou can also use openrc
11:56.47pepe80OK, I have to create the file in /etc/init.d
11:56.48pepe80But what are the commands to reload, restart the service?
11:56.48pepe80Like systemctl daemon-reload
11:56.49pepe80systemctl enable
11:56.49pepe80systemctl start
11:56.54CAPTCHA_REQUIREDit's better then sysv
11:57.17CAPTCHA_REQUIREDjust service
11:57.27CAPTCHA_REQUIREDservice thing action
11:57.35CAPTCHA_REQUIREDor run the script directly
11:58.11pepe80service daemon-reload?
11:58.24pepe80service enable X
11:59.36ShorTieall the commands are in a case statement normally
12:00.06ShorTieyou just need to tweek them for your thing
12:01.10adhocpepe80: perhaps you could read through an existing service to get an idea
12:01.23adhocrather than; systemctl
12:01.35adhocyou have;
12:01.38adhocservice $SERVICE stop
12:01.40adhocservice $SERVICE start
12:01.41adhocetc
12:01.56adhocyou can use these to enable/disable also
12:03.01onefangsysv-rc-conf is also a useful tool.
12:03.36pepe80OK, thank yu
12:04.30adhocpepe80: are you writing new software?
12:05.45Bronzuwait what
12:05.54BronzuWhere can I find more stuff to read about this?
12:06.05adhocBronzu: a little context ?
12:06.05*** join/#devuan specing_ (~specing@unaffiliated/specing)
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12:06.34BronzuThe freenode network changing hands
12:06.43BronzuA global notice was posted
12:07.30onefang#freenode or was it ##freenode.
12:07.33adhocBronzu: perhaps #devuan-offtopic might be a better place ?
12:07.52pepe80@adoc No, I'm tryint to implement this:
12:07.53pepe80https://www.howtoforge.com/economical-append-only-offsite-backups-with-restic-and-wasabi-debian/
12:07.53crashoverrideBronzu: we know, it's already being discussed on -offtopic
12:07.55BronzuSure I'll go look somewhere else, it's just that the notice is here but ok.
12:08.13crashoverrideBronzu: you're not the first one to say it :P
12:08.36crashoverrideit's been happening for a week and a half, since Ariadne leaked the logs with nirvana and rasengan
12:08.57crashoverrideand since all the staffers (like jess here) wrote resignation letters and publicly posted them all over.
12:09.49BronzuGuess I'm late huh, anyway good to know. I'll read into it to know what to expect as I use IRC overall since only recently.
12:10.44adhoc#freenode is quite over the top at the moment...
12:12.16adhocpepe80: got it "2.5 Setup rclone to serve restic via systemd"
12:13.32adhocpepe80: so I would suggest checking out the /etc/init.d/ files, something simple that implements start and stop
12:13.42adhoccopy it to a new files, edit it
12:15.01adhocpepe80: you will also note, futher down in "5.2 Run the backup script"
12:15.13xrogaanthe #freenode channel is not moderated anymore, for obvious reasons.
12:15.35adhocthat there is a cron job, you will need to update the file to run the shell script
12:15.59adhocpepe80: I would suggest running it by hand initially so you can understand what is going on.
12:16.07KittyI think I've found a bug in the installer
12:16.28adhocthen in another shell/xterm, you can run the back-restic.sh script and observe
12:16.44adhocxrogaan: it certainly looks that way =)
12:16.47xrogaanFor backups solution, I would suggest https://www.borgbackup.org/
12:21.17adhocxrogaan: assume there are good reasons for the current tool...
12:21.25Kittywhen trying to do an install using encrypted file system, on top of RAID,
12:21.34adhocI need to head to bed... night all
12:21.40Kittyit doesn't create the file system on top of the encrypted device
12:21.44Kittyand then it fails to mount it
12:21.54adhocKitty: platform?
12:21.58Kittyamd64
12:22.00xrogaanadhoc: honestly, I assume anything hosted on howtoforge to be out of date or unreliable.
12:22.05adhocversion of install media ?
12:22.13Kittydevuan_beowulf_3.1.0_amd64-netinstall.iso
12:22.28adhocah
12:22.43Kittyit also doesn't detect my X710-AT2 network card
12:26.21pepe80thank u so much for your help adhoc, @xrogan ... I must leave
12:30.40*** mode/#devuan [+o buZz] by ChanServ
12:38.05Kittyahaha! on the 37th attempt, it's now installing a base system
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13:30.20Kittywell I fixed the network issue. Had to compile my own module
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13:34.29brocashelmso, is devuan staying on freenode or moving to another server?
13:34.45brocashelmhttps://www.kline.sh/
13:34.50gnarfacei think it is a little early to say
13:35.35onefangWe are discussing that now.  So correct, to early to say.
13:36.00crashoverridebeing discussed on a chan that requires an account to join.
13:36.13crashoverridewhich, in the light of the information we now have, is a *bad* move.
13:36.18gnarfacei can configure ratbox if anyone just wants to host a irc server just for devuan
13:36.40cronolio"What you knew as freenode after 12:00 UTC of May 19 will be managed by different people." from https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461
13:36.53brocashelmare there any other irc networks? i use rizon
13:36.57Kittyoftc
13:37.33onefangand libera.chat, apparently run by the ex freenode staffers fleeing this sinking ship.  So I'm told.
13:38.04onefangI've not tried either.
13:39.11brocashelmi have enough problems connecting to freenode as it is because i'm usually behind vpn
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13:40.22onefangI'm behind VPN to, no problem, but then I run my own VPN.
13:40.46crashoverridegnarface: that's nice.
13:41.12crashoverrideonefang: libera.chat is currently under heavy DDoS.
13:41.31gnarfacefor real?
13:41.37gnarfacethat seems suspicious
13:41.49onefanghttps://www.oftc.net/ for those that don't know what OTFC is.  I had to ask myself, though I may have used it many moons ago.
13:42.07crashoverridegnarface: no, it's not, it's what happens when 20k users move all at once to a new network.
13:42.24crashoverridegnarface: and also all want to know what's up
13:42.39brocashelmso maybe devuan host their own irc server
13:42.47brocashelmshouldn't be hard
13:42.54brocashelmcentralization is a bad thing
13:43.03crashoverridebrocashelm: +1
13:43.27gnarfacefreenode had a good run, this is way longer than i thought it would last
13:43.52brocashelmi'm just surprised irc is still a thing
13:43.59brocashelmand it should still be a thing
13:44.09crashoverrideit's the only non-compulsory chat service that does not require XML :P
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14:20.06masonbbl - will re-emerge on whatever replacement network is chosen!
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14:22.56SisselHi out there, I've got a problem with refracta2usb. Persistence doesn't work. I made a second Partition (ext2) with a label and made it with mkpersist, but there aer no data stored and changes to the system are away after booting :(
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14:30.12SisselThe partition persistence isn't mounted after start, is this right? Or should it be mounted?
14:36.26fsmithredit should be mounted
14:36.51fsmithredthere should be a boot menu entry with the right options to use the persistent volume
14:37.05fsmithredit gets created when you create the persistent volume
14:37.52fsmithredand it will be the last item in the boot menu unless you moved it up when the menu opened in a text editor
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14:39.26SisselHi fsmithred, glad you're here. I booted the menu item with the persistence information, but no effect :(
14:41.11fsmithredcheck the logs in /var/log/live/
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14:44.24Sisselin config.log: init line 1515 can't open /tmp/custom_mounts.list no such file
14:44.42SisselNothing from/with persistence
14:45.03fsmithredI don't know what to make of that
14:47.26SisselWhat would be one the persistence Partition after normal circumstances? Any Directories/Files?
14:47.55fsmithreddf -h
14:48.07fsmithredshould show the partition mounted
14:48.24fsmithredat /run/live/persistence or something like that
14:48.47Sisselnope
14:49.14fsmithredbooting isolinux or grub? (legacy bios or uefi?)
14:49.43fsmithredPM me your boot command
14:55.08SisselDid you got it? I'm not an irc-connaisseur
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16:42.00Josh_2Y'all going to libera?
16:42.32miskatonicwhat is libera?
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16:42.46Josh_2some other irc
16:43.06miskatonicsome channels switch to oftc
16:43.14redrickYou'll want to see https://blog.bofh.it/debian/id_461  and https://lwn.net/Articles/856543/
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16:43.44Josh_2"Trumpian wannabe korean royalty bitcoins millionaire" low what retard wrote that
16:44.41redrickWhen the Freenode staff and admins walk away and found a new IRC network, that is a serious matter and not just social media noise.
16:47.48miskatonicdoes libera.chat have the same nickserv commands as freenode?
16:48.16redrickBack about twenty years ago, what is now Freenode was operated/owned by my friend Rob 'lilo' Levin, who alienated so many people that most mindshare left and formed the other dominant IRC network in techdom, literally called lilofree.net .  The schism persisted until Rob's untimely death in Houston.
16:48.52redrickI have not yet visited libera.chat .  This whole matter is new to my attention.
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16:59.07redrickOne of the now-resigned ops, "fuchs" says in his resignation letter that then-head of Freenode staff "christel", two years ago sold holding company Freenode, Ltd. to third-party Andrew Lee to facilitate legal requirments for holding a Freenode #live conference, but Lee has now been intervening to dismiss democratically elected Freenode team heads and gain operational control at a technical level, leading to the current mass departures.  ...
16:59.14redrick... https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt
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17:01.04redrickMore unsavoury details from a different resignation letter, that of Aaron Jones (amdj):  https://gist.github.com/aaronmdjones/1a9a93ded5b7d162c3f58bdd66b8f491
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17:14.23Josh_2Just signed up for libera, all the same as freenode with nickserv etc, uses tls etc etc
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17:20.30redrickCritically, Freenode has always been highly decentralised and does not own infrastructure other than domains freenode.net/org/com .  In particular, the ircd servers are all owned by third parties and used on a rotating basis.  Mr. Andrew Lee may end the day owning a holding corporation and three Internet domains that effectively point to nothing.
17:22.19redrickWell, I'm going over to check out irc.libera.chat .
17:30.08DocScrutinizer05yeah, Mr Lee messed it up thoroughly and I don't see how to recover from this, particularly not FN network with the massive braindrain
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17:34.15DocScrutinizer05downside: libera has NO database yet, no registered groups, no nick and password db, not even chan modes and /topic for any channel copied from FN. I don't get it why they didn't tahe at least the channel modes DB with them when they moved to libera
17:35.47debdoglawyer's advice?
17:35.50ltsIPR of the old company I suppose
17:37.01DocScrutinizer05they didn't even migrate the exact version of chanserv services, "access" command missing so your comman shortcuts and your procedures you know by heart don't work, as don't any bots using those
17:37.56DocScrutinizer05lts: all this *could* as well get harvested from mere IRC API by anybody
17:38.09DocScrutinizer05so not much IPR in there
17:39.14DocScrutinizer05the problem rather starts when acls refer to account/user names and you don't have the user account db to base that on
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17:48.08xinomiloif anyone could copy user dbs - personal data to any new service/entity they moved to, that would be troublesome... more like fb tactics.... i find it relieving they didn't use such tactics..
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19:51.03DPAMy nick on libera is now DPA too.
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20:28.23xrogaanHuh, just noticed that I have elogind-daemon running.
20:28.30MinceR:(
20:28.35xrogaanDidn't have it before switching to chimaera.
20:29.52xrogaanhuh, it switched from consolekit to elogind for some reason.
20:30.09xrogaanbut consolekit is still installed!
20:30.37MinceRmaybe something depends on *logind
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20:33.39xrogaansimulating removal of elogind would remove the following: elogind gvfs gvfs-backends gvfs-daemons libpam-elogind udiskie udisks2
20:34.16MinceRsounds like something in the gvfs/udisks2 tumor depends on it
20:34.17xrogaanThing is, I've been using this system without obvious issues while having both consolekit and elogind active.
20:34.48xrogaanbut libpolkit uses consolekit.
20:39.33xrogaanYep. udisks2 requires 'default-logind | logind', and that's only provided by libpam-elogind.
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21:55.22ham5urgIs there a way to randomize the Bluetooth Mac of my device? My Wifi Mac I managed to randomize.
22:00.58gnu_srsleaving freenode, goodbye.
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22:21.52brocashelmelogind was automatically installed when i switched to ceres
22:22.27brocashelmi can't remove it because a ton of essential packages depend on it
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22:42.35lastebilhopes to see an irc location on the website sometime soon, so he can rejoin
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22:57.28Xenguyprepares to leave for Libera
23:02.04lastebilI see we have a preliminary channel there. ok.
23:10.40*** join/#devuan Diagon (~DiagonalA@unaffiliated/diagonalarg)
23:11.04*** part/#devuan Diagon (~DiagonalA@unaffiliated/diagonalarg)
23:11.59*** part/#devuan IanJ (~IanJ@cpc137950-brom13-2-0-cust104.16-1.cable.virginm.net)
23:23.08*** join/#devuan targz (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/targz)
23:25.31*** part/#devuan Unit193 (ukikie@ubuntu/member/unit193)
23:29.43lastebilok. I will wait for the irc announcement, in the meantime, I will be watching libera.
23:30.05*** part/#devuan lastebil (truck@77.246.204.69)
23:39.27_zxq9_What is the drama?
23:41.27fluffywolf_zxq9_:  someone purchased the freenode domains and such in a hostile takeover and is now making it their service instead of a community-ran service.
23:41.42MinceRafaik they didn't purchase them
23:41.53fluffywolfseems that the previous owner of the domains wasn't immune to being offered large amounts of money.
23:42.05MinceRowned the network for legal reasons
23:42.18MinceRand then there was some recent drama which was interpreted as a hostile takeover by both parties
23:42.56fluffywolfthat some individual who has not been part of the community in any way now owns the domains is fairly non-ambiguous.
23:43.11_zxq9_Ah. I see. I'm on a few other networks, but freenode is definitely the biggest at the moment. I don't think they realize how easily people can jump ship to OFTC or whatever that alternative one (liberia or whatever?) the ops who are splitting off have in mind.
23:43.45_zxq9_Or both at once.
23:47.50MinceRstaff's side of the story: https://libera.chat/
23:47.57MinceRrasengan's side of the story: https://gist.github.com/realrasengan/88549ec34ee32d01629354e4075d2d48
23:48.37MinceRthere are also letters of resignation by staff members, not sure where's the best place to start
23:49.06MinceRhere's one: https://www.kline.sh/
23:51.03Xenguy/join libera.chat
23:51.33MinceRdon't you mean /connect? :>
23:51.51XenguyYou'll always be better at IRC than me  = )
23:52.02MinceRnot sure
23:52.14MinceRonce i die, i will become a lot worse at IRC than i am now
23:52.25XenguyI cannot disagree
23:52.49XenguyWon't be too hot shit myself
23:52.58XenguySorry for the OT...
23:53.09XenguyBut reality itself turned OT today it seems...
23:53.15XenguyAnd here we are
23:53.30MinceR:>
23:54.19XenguyAnd don't worry, I probably won't be here that much longer, so not a long-term problem  8 -D
23:55.20fluffywolfand here I would have gone with the third option, /server  :P
23:55.25MinceR:>
23:55.39stovepipefreenode used to be fun before all the #*-social channels and off-topic rules
23:55.43stovepipecan that go away too? :)
23:55.53fluffywolfconnect is for linking irc servers to each other.  linking freenode to liberachat would result in much breakage.  :P
23:58.13MinceRin irssi, connect connects to another ircd without terminating any existing connections
23:58.29MinceRwhile /server would terminate the connection to the currently selected server and then connect
23:58.29fluffywolfso irssi is broken.  good to know.  :P
23:58.32MinceR:>
23:58.42MinceRthis is not the part that gets me
23:58.54MinceRthe part that gets me is that there are subcommands, but help isn't one of them
23:59.12MinceRso i reconnected one of my networks to 'help' when i tried to see how to use /server.

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