IRC log for #devuan on 20210515

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03:03.28*** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.1 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic
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04:45.43unixbsdAlso guys, try to add lib bin and a C compiler, like clang in your devuan
04:45.47unixbsdthe x11 is not well installed on it, as well. firmware are there and good to run.
04:45.51unixbsdthe devuan live beowulf amd64 is such a mess. you forget the deb in root, and using /run for overlay, questioning?
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09:19.22unixbsdhi
09:19.53unixbsdwhat are the minimum debs to have a working chroot . ?   linux-base, password, and which next?
09:19.59unixbsdthe very minimum.
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10:17.40iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Something like libc6 is the very minimum, I'd think.  What do you need it for, though?  For me, # debootstrap --variant=minbase worked rather well so far.  (At least as well as to install a bunch of other packages I consider "base".  Like, say, apg and unzip.)
10:21.06unixbsdfrom min deboostrap, the deb:   dpkg -x *libc* /target ; chroot /target would work?
10:21.36unixbsdI try to reduce the size from 335MB devuan base to minimum
10:22.03unixbsdI need about 50 MB around
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10:24.14unixbsdthis is crazy really
10:24.31unixbsdthe debootstrap base of beowulf is 711 MB !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
10:28.34ShorTie50 MB doesn't leave much room for apt
10:28.58ShorTiewhat do you want to do in this chroot ??
10:30.28ShorTieabsolute smallest chroot i'd guess like these  https://linuxfromscratch.org/lfs/view/stable/chapter06/chapter06.html
10:32.19ShorTieyou need binutils to umpak deb's
10:32.20onefangIf you use something like busybox or toybox, you can get smaller than LFS.
10:32.45onefangLFS is a "compile the lot yourself" system, not package based.
10:33.08ShorTietrue
10:34.45ShorTiei just used LFS for the list of basic stuff
10:35.01ShorTiehow he gets them, got me
10:36.05ShorTiebut you need binutils and tar to unpack debs
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10:48.17Walexunixbsd: you need at least packages marked "essential".
10:48.49Walexunixbsd: anyhow there are other distros that aim at minimality for containers etc., some of them are Debian forks too.
10:50.43Walexand there are several distros based on the much smaller MUSL: https://wiki.musl-libc.org/projects-using-musl.html
10:51.48Walexunixbsd: you can sort this table by "Image Size": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light-weight_Linux_distribution#Comparison
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11:30.31iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Re. "the debootstrap base of beowulf is 711 MB !!", that doesn't seem right.  My --variant=minbase debootstrap of (last year's, granted) Debian Bullseye is only 110 MiB.  Did you clean things like /var/lib/apt/lists/ and /var/cache/apt/ after debootstrap?
11:49.03unixbsdwith added: minvariant=minbase it is 293MB
11:50.52iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Check the top of # du -x --all -- /chroot | sort -srn | less ?
11:51.55onefangThat should be --variant=minbase
11:53.26iv4nshm4k0vI expect that around 80 MiB to be added for _Packages lists, and perhaps half that (?) more for package descriptions.  And there'd be the downloaded .debs under /var/cache/apt/packages, of course.
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12:06.29unixbsdthis confirms it:
12:06.38unixbsd<PROTECTED>
12:06.46unixbsdchroot  . ; apt-get clean
12:07.30unixbsd<PROTECTED>
12:08.05unixbsdand I forgot, without vmlinuz and /lib/modules also.
12:08.37iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: # apt-get clean does /not/ clean neither /var/lib/apt/lists nor /var/cache/apt/*cache.bin , which are only needed for APT.  Once you have all the packages installed via APT, those can be removed.  (And you can get them back via # apt-get update , of course.)
12:09.11unixbsdok, rm -rf to force that delete and get spce
12:09.41unixbsdrm -rf /var/cache/apt/  , after: /dev/sda7        49G  219M   47G   1% /media/sda7
12:10.20unixbsdrm -rf /media/sda7/var/cache/ ; returns:   /dev/sda7        49G  218M   47G   1% /media/sda
12:10.39iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Better rm /without/ -r, for the directories are needed for APT to work.  Also: /var/lib/apt/lists.
12:11.20unixbsdI need about 50-100MB devuan. 300 mb is too large to make a live usb memstick.
12:12.49iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Other than that, I'll need the du | sort output to figure out what went wrong.
12:12.49iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Also, why '300 mb is too large'?
12:13.08unixbsdit is quite a lot 300 mb for a linux
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12:13.37unixbsdwait I pastebin the list of debs... with minbase... perl?? do we need perl.
12:14.56unixbsdminbase has about 220MB: links https://termbin.com/4gg9    (without kernel yet!)
12:15.27iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: 300M was large a decade ago; now it's rather the norm.  Note, however, that for a /Live/ install (as in, with live-boot and possibly live-config) you can use Squashfs, which will reduce the flash footprint by half.
12:16.02unixbsdyet luckily the squashfs makes it smaller
12:16.08unixbsdyeah
12:16.36unixbsdI will try to reduce bit more with hand ... dpkg -x file.deb /targetroot/
12:17.40unixbsdwe need base*.deb libc6* libext* init* sysvini*
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12:24.46iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: I'm pretty sure that out of your 220 MB, some 100 MB are /not/ part of any package.  /var/lib/apt/lists seem a likely culprit.
12:25.00unixbsdless than 300 MB (including the kernel) for devuan seems not possible.
12:25.18unixbsdI guess I muzst give up devuan for live memstick, I will go LFS.
12:27.50iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: For Debian Buster, my Live images were about 253 MiB.  That included such packages as screen and heimdal-clients.  For Debian Bullseye, I'd aim for about 300 MiB, right.
12:28.25unixbsdI want a live running on less than 100 MB.  My slackware live is just 46MB.
12:30.38iv4nshm4k0v(... Ah, I also have locales-all there...)
12:30.38iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: It's your call, obviously, but I'd venture to guess that such a lightweight GNU/Linux Live wouldn't be much useful to me.
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12:32.52unixbsdthe cool thing with debian is that it is debian, lot of tools
12:35.54iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Yep.  My point is that 'lot of tools' means 'lot of space.'  E. g., my 'system' installs of recent Debian versions are around 2 GiB.
12:37.01iv4nshm4k0vISTR it used to be half that a decade ago; though, obviously, my toolset has since changed considerably.
12:37.04unixbsdwell, just need the min to start the live, and then apt-get can be fetched maybe. aptt is bit too big
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12:45.00unixbsdiv4nshm4k0v: it is not an "excuse" because other OSs are larger and "un"efficients
12:45.47iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: It's not about excuses, but rather tradeoffs, I'd think.
12:46.12unixbsdwe say something like "to have good conscience"
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12:47.16iv4nshm4k0vsays that if one wants an OS that fits a 180 KB diskette, one should stick to CP/M
12:47.25iv4nshm4k0v(No offense intended.)
12:47.40ShorTiedon't they already have a live image to install from ??
12:47.52ShorTiewhat is wrong with it ??
12:48.13unixbsdiv4nshm4k0v: I started on CP/M, it was a nice sysetm
12:48.47unixbsdIBM arrived, cp/m became nothing, and MS became what it is today ;)
12:48.48iv4nshm4k0vShorTie: Pre-made Live images usually include useless stuff (like, say, XFCE) and exclude useful stuff (like, say, heimdal-clients and screen.)  In the specific case of Debian proper, they're also Systemd-based.
12:49.42ShorTieoh really
12:50.19unixbsda distro that removes " less " shows how much they didnt understand anything about UNIX.
12:50.42unixbsdapt-get install links    ... not found. like ubuntu
12:52.44fsmithredlinks2
12:53.11unixbsdwe still at 1.03 in openbsd ;) links 1.03
12:54.37fsmithredlinks is found here. Something missing from your sources.list?
12:54.46fsmithredit's in beowulf main
12:55.02fsmithredalso in chimaera and ceres
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13:08.56fsmithredthey do make usb sticks bigger than 1GB now.
13:10.47unixbsdMy 16MB memstick rescue is smaller... ok. I give my new version based on devuan : pcmedkit
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13:47.36ham5urgI try to copy from a webdav-directory to a local one via rsync -a user\@example\.org@http://example.org/ /local_dir
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13:48.27ham5urgThe username is an email-address and it looks like I wrongly escaped the "@" and ".".
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18:39.43unixbsdI got a little live... https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/pcmedkit/-/blob/master/release-v4/pcmedkit-memstick-amd64-v4-release-ramdisk-devuan-plus.img
18:40.06unixbsdactually the filesystem.squashfs is about 160MB. quite ok actually, using ascii.
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19:10.35iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: Note that you don't need 30+ MiB (uncompressed size) var/lib/apt/lists/deb.devuan.org_merged_dists_ascii_main_binary-amd64_Packages on your Squashfs.  Strictly speaking, you don't need a 22 MiB boot/ there, either.
19:13.11iv4nshm4k0vunixbsd: You can get rid of *-old files under var/lib and var/cache there as well.  But most of all, you can use mksquashfs -always-use-fragments option.
19:13.55iv4nshm4k0v(ISTR that Squashfs compression only applies to fragments, /not/ unfragmented files.)
19:17.57iv4nshm4k0vConfiguring templatedb in /etc/debconf.conf as follows may also help: Name: templatedb Driver: PackageDir Mode: 644 Directory: /var/cache/debconf/templates.d .
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19:21.42unixbsdiv4nshm4k0v:  thank you. I will progreses in live making
19:22.05unixbsdiv4nshm4k0v: currently my live devuan asii is gzipped 200 mb, but it will be small sitll
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19:47.16unixbsddevuan live on about 200 MB, only now, but well, it is way too large. Maybe I should use cpio and initrd to have it way smaller.
19:47.35unixbsd200mbg https://gitlab.com/openbsd98324/pcmedkit/-/raw/master/release-v5/pcmedkit-memstick-amd64-v5-release-ramdisk-devuan-200mb.img.gz
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20:31.22unixbsdOn 400MB, I managed to put Devuan with the content: C compiler (gcc and make), debootstrap, wpa_supplicant for wifi, fdisk, ifconfig, ifupdown, testdisk, vim, mpg123, partimage, xfsprogs, ntfs-3g, wodim, links, nano, ... and also: + NetBSD + Slackware.
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21:23.02*** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.1 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic
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