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| 00:06.25 | xrogaan | question about runit: can it support user daemon? |
| 00:06.39 | xrogaan | so far I know, sysv doesn't and it's been an annoyance of mine. |
| 00:06.49 | fsmithred | what is user daemon? |
| 00:07.38 | xrogaan | right, so, software that runs in the background but get either killed when the user logoff, or don't get restarted needlessly. |
| 00:08.04 | xrogaan | For instance, my mpd get started every time I login through slim, but it never gets stopped. |
| 00:09.14 | fsmithred | you would probably have to write your own runscripts |
| 00:09.51 | gnarface | hmm, doesn't lightdm do that automatically if you tell it to save your session? |
| 00:10.11 | gnarface | i was pretty sure there was a way to get it to remember what was running and then run that again the next time you logged in |
| 00:10.21 | mason | xrogaan: man 5 crontab and look at "@reboot" |
| 00:10.27 | gnarface | i remember because i had a problem with it doing that to something i didn't like |
| 00:10.32 | mason | gnarface: session managers do that |
| 00:10.42 | xrogaan | gnarface: that's not strickly what I need. xfce can do that too. |
| 00:11.03 | fsmithred | https://salsa.debian.org/runit-team/runscript-collection |
| 00:14.30 | xrogaan | mason: sure, but how do you stop the thing once the user logs off? |
| 00:16.18 | fsmithred | put it in the desktop's startup apps |
| 00:17.02 | mason | xrogaan: Ah, that sounds like user services. What's a practical example? |
| 00:20.02 | adhoc | there used to be a dot file that bash (or maybe another shell) would run when the user logs out |
| 00:20.13 | adhoc | like .profile or .bashrc |
| 00:20.40 | adhoc | not sure that is useful if you open up random terminals regularly |
| 00:20.45 | gnarface | it's .logout, and it still works in bash |
| 00:21.04 | gnarface | you could use that to kill off stuff you'd backgrounded if you stored the PID somewhere |
| 00:21.28 | gnarface | it wouldn't be a super difficult scripting process to do so |
| 00:21.48 | gnarface | but i would assum ethe built-in xfce feature has it covered for most use cases |
| 00:21.59 | adhoc | right, used that alot to clean up processes after your dialup link had dropped, |
| 00:22.07 | adhoc | not so sure that would be handy in X land... |
| 00:22.47 | gnarface | oh, it's possible that some session managers might not call it properly. i did noticed lately lightdm doesn't call .bash_profile properly either |
| 00:22.54 | gnarface | or .login or whatever |
| 00:23.31 | gnarface | that's a new thing; previously people coding these things cared about preserving the shell environment's behavior |
| 00:23.48 | gnarface | now they don't even seem to remember it's there |
| 00:24.08 | adhoc | yes |
| 00:24.17 | adhoc | they use systemd for that now |
| 00:24.36 | sadsnork | should have seen that coming. |
| 00:25.07 | adhoc | if shell scripting is too hard, then what chance are they going to have of maintaining a sensible shell environment |
| 00:25.20 | adhoc | everything is in .ini type files |
| 00:25.32 | adhoc | is going through that hell in a work project |
| 00:44.08 | xrogaan | mason: yeah, user service. |
| 00:49.11 | xrogaan | also, yeah, it's quite difficult to change the PATH of the xfce session |
| 00:52.00 | xrogaan | There is no real practical example per say. I'd just like for the system to not start new processes or stop processes running as I create a new session. |
| 00:52.26 | xrogaan | I usually have to kill pulseaudio because it doesn't end itself, since it's not depending on the graphical session. |
| 00:54.17 | adhoc | is that a background service? |
| 00:54.21 | adhoc | if not, why not ? |
| 00:54.51 | adhoc | I've had plenty of issues with pulseaudio |
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| 01:01.55 | xrogaan | I'm looking at https://github.com/rootkiwi/an2linuxserver |
| 01:02.14 | xrogaan | It could run as a user service. But then I'll need something to take care of its state. |
| 01:02.16 | orcus-de | lightdm no sourcing .profile /etc/profile and friends is related to the different defaults they are using - ubuntu has different ones + it does deliver some missing support files ... it's the same reason why ~/bin and ~/.local/bin do not get added to the PATH anymore (at least at debian - didn't check for it at devuan) ... |
| 01:03.03 | orcus-de | they == debian |
| 01:06.01 | gnarface | yea but the lines to add ~/bin to the user's path are still commented-out in .bash_profile... which doesn't run if you're using lightdm |
| 01:06.52 | orcus-de | the xsession doesn't care about a bash profile |
| 01:06.59 | gnarface | the latter is an example of differing defaults, but the former breaks expected behavior in a bad way and the only reason they have for not doing it that way was "woops, didn't know it was supposed to do that. oh well, i'm not doing it over. suffer." |
| 01:07.05 | orcus-de | https://www.orcus.de/main_workarounds/lmde3_fix_profile.htm |
| 01:07.27 | orcus-de | did never ever test it with devuan ... I'm just hanging around here most of the time ... |
| 01:07.30 | gnarface | and then in the mean time they bold on all the same functionality over |
| 01:09.19 | orcus-de | I gave up a bit on reasoning with people that it's a shame to break functionality out of nowhere.. for almost zero reason |
| 01:11.17 | gnarface | well, there wasn't zero reason, the reason was they didn't even know the work was already done before they were halfway to reinventing the wheel |
| 01:11.50 | gnarface | but that's almost defensible... not backpedaling to restore the break though, that's just pure ugly pride and nothing more |
| 01:12.42 | gnarface | i dunno, it's not even software i actually use myself, but this type of thing causes me support issues |
| 01:13.26 | gnarface | and when it's support issues with something that has worked since debian sarge, i think the "woops didn't know the work was done already!" defense is pretty thin |
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| 01:18.09 | orcus-de | I asked mint-devs (done all the work to debug it and finding the reason being different compile time defaults ++ grabbing the required files) to add it again to lmde (the mint debian version) ... which ended in NOPE ... as "we are just doing it like debian does" ... with all the nasty side-effects (but ok lmde is more the fallback for mint in case canonical would get worse than it already is) ... at that point you can either give up and turn away from |
| 01:18.09 | orcus-de | a distro or try your best to keep people going in some way |
| 01:19.24 | xrogaan | forgot how I got xfce to look into ~/bin |
| 01:19.44 | xrogaan | probably ~/.xsessionrc |
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| 04:43.10 | systemdlete2 | I'm using wicd, and it was working fine before about an hour or two ago. All I did was change the ip address, which is set to be a fixed address on the laptop. It is correctly assigning the address and I can see, briefly, when the route is set. |
| 04:44.02 | systemdlete2 | But the connection does not last. When it tries to connect, I see a message in the wicd window saying "openwrt verifying access point association," then finally it says "openwrt could not contact the wireless access point" |
| 04:44.10 | systemdlete2 | This was not the behavior previously. |
| 04:44.20 | systemdlete2 | (nothing but headaches with wireless lately...) |
| 04:44.24 | adhoc | are you using dhcp ? |
| 04:47.05 | adhoc | if so, is the dhcpd putting an IP for the host or are you setting the IP in wicd ? |
| 04:47.55 | systemdlete2 | wicd is setting the IP address |
| 04:48.09 | systemdlete2 | wicd is set to static address |
| 04:48.26 | systemdlete2 | there is NO entry whatsoever in /etc/network/interfaces for the wireless |
| 04:48.38 | systemdlete2 | wpa_supplicant IS running. |
| 04:48.53 | systemdlete2 | (just telling you my environment; please excuse my tone) |
| 04:49.19 | systemdlete2 | adhoc: Do you know what those 2 messages mean specifically? |
| 04:49.37 | systemdlete2 | I wish wicd had an option to show a trace of what it is doing/thinking... |
| 04:56.21 | systemdlete2 | sorry, missed your 2nd question. The dhcp server DOES have an entry for the laptop, but as I said, wicd is configured to set the address the same. |
| 04:56.58 | systemdlete2 | adhoc: I also tried rebooting. In fact, I even did a COLD boot. Neither helped. |
| 05:06.01 | adhoc | what is the name of your access points SSID ? |
| 05:06.51 | adhoc | Some times when you set a static IP it ignores the DHCP data entirely |
| 05:07.00 | adhoc | I had the problem in Debian 8 and 9 |
| 05:07.44 | adhoc | If you put an entry in your /etc/dhcp/dhcpd.conf with the MAC address for you laptop, you would have a better chance of debugging this. |
| 05:08.27 | adhoc | It is possible (and I'm speculating) that the DHCP client is not getting a new lease and thefore the interface times out and is dropped. |
| 05:08.41 | adhoc | I'm not sure what the DHCP server is, or its behaviour. |
| 05:09.18 | adhoc | I hit something fairly similar last week setting up some new PXE booted machines. |
| 05:10.08 | adhoc | When I hard set the IPs, the DHCP leases expired, as you need the lease in the first place to get the boot image, system config and kernel image. |
| 05:10.43 | adhoc | Assuming you can edit the config for the DHCP server, I would set as little as you needed to for the client. |
| 05:10.52 | adhoc | then add more config is as you need it. |
| 05:15.30 | systemdlete2 | These are not PXE clients. |
| 05:15.43 | systemdlete2 | They have their own /boot with their own images and initrd's |
| 05:17.09 | systemdlete2 | The server uses dnsmasq, but again, it is not serving dhcp in this case. wicd is set to ignore dhcp with a static address. |
| 05:17.36 | adhoc | ok, similar problems may exist. |
| 05:17.50 | systemdlete2 | How would the SSID impact any of this? |
| 05:18.12 | adhoc | what is the "openwrt" in relation to the message you posted above? |
| 05:18.34 | systemdlete2 | It's the software running on the router. |
| 05:19.01 | systemdlete2 | just fyi, my android phone connects to the router just fine. So it is not a router misconfig. |
| 05:19.14 | adhoc | ok, step back, are you running DHCP at all on the router? |
| 05:19.18 | systemdlete2 | Also, the laptop WAS working a few hours ago, connecting to the router without a problem. |
| 05:19.42 | systemdlete2 | not "dhcp" per se, but dnsmasq, which includes a dns and dhcp server combined. |
| 05:19.51 | adhoc | right |
| 05:19.53 | systemdlete2 | it is functionally equivalent, by and large. |
| 05:20.03 | adhoc | can you look at its logs ? |
| 05:20.12 | systemdlete2 | I have. No hints, sadly... |
| 05:20.48 | systemdlete2 | Right now I am recharging the laptop. Its battery only lasts a few hours. |
| 05:21.41 | systemdlete2 | I can probably run the dnsmasq from the router console and get more info that way |
| 05:21.59 | systemdlete2 | I've done that in the past. But that won't tell me what is going on on the laptop. |
| 05:22.30 | systemdlete2 | adhoc: One thing I definitely can report is |
| 05:22.43 | systemdlete2 | that the wireless "chip" on the laptop is flakey. |
| 05:22.44 | adhoc | is there a reason you need to run the fixed IP on the laptop on the network? |
| 05:22.52 | systemdlete2 | why? |
| 05:23.14 | adhoc | why not let the router hand out the IP, DNS, Route, etc? |
| 05:23.30 | systemdlete2 | yes. In order to do backups, which are run from a lan-side system. |
| 05:23.40 | systemdlete2 | For the phone, it does do exactly that. |
| 05:23.57 | adhoc | can you IP for the specific MAC on the router? |
| 05:24.16 | systemdlete2 | There is a mac filter for each of the devices. |
| 05:24.26 | systemdlete2 | I've tried disabling it, but no difference. |
| 05:24.45 | systemdlete2 | and, in fact, I can see the laptop connecting on the router... for about 3 seconds. |
| 05:25.25 | systemdlete2 | If it were a problem with the filter, I would not see the laptop connection from the router, even for a moment. |
| 05:25.37 | systemdlete2 | I don't think it is dnsmasq or the filter. |
| 05:25.44 | systemdlete2 | Again, this was all working just hours ago. |
| 05:26.07 | systemdlete2 | Something else is going wrong. And this is a brand new devuan beowulf install on the laptop. |
| 05:26.15 | adhoc | you mention the "chip" us flakey? |
| 05:26.36 | adhoc | do you have any tools to look at the available SSIDs on the laptop and look at the relative signal strenghts ? |
| 05:26.39 | systemdlete2 | Well, let me tell you what was going on, when I had it connecting at all... |
| 05:26.50 | systemdlete2 | the strength is good |
| 05:26.57 | adhoc | until it isn't ? |
| 05:27.02 | systemdlete2 | usually, the router shows up in wicd as the 1st 2nd or 3rd |
| 05:27.11 | systemdlete2 | well, let me explain |
| 05:27.15 | adhoc | which chipset are you running ? |
| 05:27.57 | systemdlete2 | I was able to connect from the laptop to the router, but trying to, say, ping the laptop was intermittent. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. Even without changing a thing in the laptop or router config. |
| 05:28.22 | gnarface | a lot of this stuff seems conflicting and similar to other problems but not quite |
| 05:28.25 | gnarface | hard to say what is missing |
| 05:28.30 | systemdlete2 | qca9377 |
| 05:28.47 | adhoc | gnarface: indeed. |
| 05:28.51 | systemdlete2 | hi gnarface. how ar you doing? |
| 05:28.53 | systemdlete2 | *are |
| 05:28.55 | gnarface | it almost sounded like an issue with forgetting you'd enabled MAC address randomization on the client and MAC whitelisting on the router at the same time |
| 05:29.18 | gnarface | but after that last line it sounds more like there are either two devices sharing one IP or two routers sharing one SSID |
| 05:29.18 | systemdlete2 | no. I haven't done anything to randomize the mac address... unless that is a default. |
| 05:29.43 | gnarface | is it a pinephone? some of the older pinephones had a bug briefly where MAC address randomization got enabled by default and was not possible to disable |
| 05:29.44 | systemdlete2 | There is only one router configured for wireless. |
| 05:29.51 | adhoc | have not run into the qca9377 before. |
| 05:29.57 | gnarface | though they fixed that on the pinephones shortly afterwards |
| 05:30.00 | systemdlete2 | it is an alcatel running an old version of android (about 6 or so) |
| 05:30.22 | systemdlete2 | but the phone doesn't have this issue. |
| 05:30.25 | adhoc | the client is an alcatel ? |
| 05:30.36 | systemdlete2 | it gets a connection to the router and continues smoothly. |
| 05:30.51 | systemdlete2 | the phone is an alcatel, which is the device that is working with the router |
| 05:31.10 | adhoc | ok, so what is the client device? |
| 05:31.15 | systemdlete2 | it's the laptop that is having problems. |
| 05:31.18 | systemdlete2 | with the same router. |
| 05:31.30 | systemdlete2 | It's flakey. |
| 05:32.09 | adhoc | is the laptop running devuan ? |
| 05:32.29 | systemdlete2 | I even ran tcpdump on both sides of the connection earlier. A few hours ago I was able to get a solid, steady connection. I could send packets from the laptop to the Internet (ping, etc), but I could not receive packets. |
| 05:32.40 | systemdlete2 | adhoc: Of course. I would not be asking here if it weren't. |
| 05:33.09 | systemdlete2 | but once in a while, some packets did make it through to the laptop from the openwrt side |
| 05:33.12 | systemdlete2 | weird. |
| 05:33.26 | systemdlete2 | I'd run a test, take a breath for 30 seconds maybe, or a minute, whatever. |
| 05:33.54 | systemdlete2 | Try again, and it would change behavior. One moment working, rest, then not, rest etc |
| 05:34.54 | adhoc | what is the wifi device on the laptop; internal or USB ? |
| 05:35.23 | systemdlete2 | it's internal. The laptop is really a 2-in-1 SoC. It has a separable keyboard |
| 05:35.41 | systemdlete2 | again, wifi device is a qca9377 |
| 05:36.22 | adhoc | so its an atheros 10k ? |
| 05:36.23 | systemdlete2 | This is one of the issues also. I'm looking for a dongle I can use to compare. |
| 05:36.26 | systemdlete2 | right |
| 05:36.28 | systemdlete2 | ath10k |
| 05:36.35 | systemdlete2 | I have the fw for it installed, too. |
| 05:37.20 | systemdlete2 | hmmm. I'm thinking maybe I should run memtest86 on it and see if it is having intermittent memory issues. |
| 05:37.39 | systemdlete2 | At least I could eliminate that as a problem. |
| 05:37.57 | systemdlete2 | anyway, the laptop is almost juiced out now. So I will return to this again later. |
| 05:38.01 | systemdlete2 | thanks for your help. |
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| 08:21.34 | gateway2000 | I'm getting some tofu (like this âÂÂ) on the desktop for special characters like ",", etc, but not in my browser. I did the live install and selected en_US.utf8 or whatever it is as the locale |
| 08:22.09 | gateway2000 | This is with the xfce default desktop for beowulf. Anybody have a clue how to straighten this out? |
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| 08:43.02 | gnarface | gateway2000: you just need to install some fonts that contain those glyphs |
| 08:43.28 | gnarface | firefox hides the problem by bundling its own now i think |
| 08:43.54 | gateway2000 | Idk because the characters in question are " and - , but only in some situations |
| 08:44.08 | gateway2000 | I think maybe it's a locale thing but idk much about it |
| 08:44.33 | gnarface | if it's just in stuff you're typing then it could be your keyboard mapping too |
| 08:45.08 | gateway2000 | I saw the behavior in the display module of the xfce settings application and in a message in hexchat |
| 08:45.29 | gnarface | probably the font then |
| 08:45.52 | gateway2000 | Thanks, I'll see what I can see... |
| 08:46.11 | gnarface | make sure you did actually use the right locale |
| 08:46.26 | gnarface | en_US and en_GB are very similar but differ on characters like that |
| 08:46.58 | onefang | Could be the web site using those characters downloads it's own (or a Google font) font. That's common. |
| 08:47.41 | gnarface | yea it could be sideloading fonts through a number of unsafe methods but you can verify cases like that by trying the characters in the URL bar |
| 08:47.59 | gnarface | if you get color emoji's in the URL bar it's using it's built-in glyphs |
| 08:48.10 | gnarface | its* |
| 08:48.18 | krzych | hi, how to mount lvm wolumen whith rw, not read-only in rescue mode |
| 08:48.35 | gnarface | i don't use lvm or i'd tell you sorry |
| 08:49.33 | gnarface | gateway2000: try this to get a partial listing of available font packages: apt-cache search ^ttf\-\|^fonts\- |
| 08:51.26 | krzych | gnarface: ok, maybe someone uses and knows :) |
| 08:51.55 | gnarface | krzych: hang out, it's a slow channel but someone knows |
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| 09:24.18 | gateway2000 | I tried rebooting into the live usb session and the issue did not persist. I know it's not an issue of what fonts are on the system. I'm thinking maybe somewhere along the line using the refracta installer something's dropped |
| 09:24.52 | gateway2000 | locale output is the same for live and for installed session. I also tried regenerating the locales on the installed session just in case |
| 09:25.17 | gateway2000 | If I can't figure anything out I'm going to try reinstalling from the full desktop iso |
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| 09:38.03 | systemdlete | Does anyone here know of a reason why devuan might not respond to an ARP request over wireless? I've narrowed down the problem to this and it is reproducible, but intermittent. |
| 09:38.41 | crashoverride | I'm pretty sure this is firmware related, not OS related. |
| 09:38.45 | systemdlete | If I start a connection over the wireless link between devuan beowulf and my openwrt router, about 75-90% of the time roughtly it fails. |
| 09:39.09 | crashoverride | I'd say "swap the WLAN adapter" with another laptop. |
| 09:39.15 | systemdlete | I agree crashoverride. But I thought I should check first to see if anyone knows of a previously reported issue. |
| 09:39.39 | systemdlete | It's a SoC and it's a tablet. No servicable parts here. |
| 09:39.41 | crashoverride | if problem happens with the other laptop too (has to be a non-windows driver) and does not happen with your current's, you know. |
| 09:39.45 | crashoverride | ah well |
| 09:39.51 | crashoverride | sorry then |
| 09:40.06 | systemdlete | No, that's good really. |
| 09:40.15 | crashoverride | how so? |
| 09:40.24 | systemdlete | I strongly suspect it is the firmware also |
| 09:40.38 | crashoverride | then put android on it |
| 09:40.42 | crashoverride | see if it has a problem |
| 09:40.47 | crashoverride | if not |
| 09:40.54 | crashoverride | extract the blob used as a firmware for it |
| 09:40.56 | systemdlete | You know I have actually thought of just that... |
| 09:41.01 | crashoverride | then put debian back |
| 09:41.04 | crashoverride | devuan sorry |
| 09:41.14 | systemdlete | well, I have multiple partitions I can use |
| 09:41.15 | crashoverride | and use that firmware to see |
| 09:41.21 | crashoverride | even better |
| 09:41.48 | systemdlete | so you are saying to extract android's qca9377 blob? |
| 09:41.51 | systemdlete | or something else? |
| 09:42.09 | crashoverride | extract all the blobs |
| 09:42.11 | crashoverride | just in case |
| 09:42.54 | systemdlete | So, it sounds like your theory rests on the notion that android's collection of proprietary blobs are different from linux's |
| 09:43.09 | systemdlete | but I thought that android was a linux variant? |
| 09:43.25 | systemdlete | shared code, something like that. I haven't followed that story too closely. |
| 09:44.10 | crashoverride | systemdlete: android is a COMMERCIALLY supported linux variant. |
| 09:44.17 | crashoverride | and linux is a KERNEL. |
| 09:44.30 | systemdlete | Interesting idea though. But frankly, I'd like to see what a different wireless dongle might do |
| 09:44.32 | crashoverride | it would be good for people to finally start understanding the meaning of those very terms. |
| 09:44.40 | systemdlete | sorry, you are 100% right |
| 09:44.44 | systemdlete | my bad. very bad. |
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| 09:44.59 | crashoverride | not your fault tho |
| 09:45.03 | systemdlete | let me rephrase: I thought that android used a modified linux kernel and its drivers. |
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| 09:45.10 | systemdlete | (I know everyone does that, don't they?) |
| 09:45.22 | crashoverride | it uses a patched kernel |
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| 09:45.38 | systemdlete | patched ~ modified |
| 09:45.48 | crashoverride | and the drivers are usually only available to google, usually as blobs only. |
| 09:45.53 | crashoverride | so... |
| 09:46.11 | systemdlete | "to google" you mean chrome os? |
| 09:46.22 | crashoverride | no, android releases |
| 09:46.34 | crashoverride | even tho, that's valid for the pixel only |
| 09:46.41 | systemdlete | oh, ok. I see now. |
| 09:46.44 | crashoverride | for other brands, it goes straight to $vender. |
| 09:46.47 | crashoverride | $vendor* |
| 09:47.23 | crashoverride | don't quote me on that, I'm no AOSP expert. |
| 09:47.59 | crashoverride | but anyway, getting the blobs out of a supported android might be a good way to start. |
| 09:48.18 | systemdlete | I think my next move is to get myself another wireless dongle that works on linux., hopefully a tiny one that doesn't actually dongle |
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| 09:48.54 | systemdlete | Don't I need to find the blob for the qca9377 specifically though? |
| 09:49.36 | systemdlete | It's a qualcomm atheros. Are blobs for those available to android? idk. |
| 09:50.15 | crashoverride | You can surely find a xda-developers.com link for that |
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| 09:50.55 | systemdlete | yeah. |
| 09:51.08 | systemdlete | tbh, I've never been 100% content with this tablet. |
| 09:51.38 | systemdlete | I bought it thinking the reviews got praise, so maybe it is decent. Of course, first I had to remove the malware it comes with. |
| 09:51.40 | systemdlete | Oh sorry. |
| 09:51.53 | systemdlete | Not "malware" -- I meant the OS that was on it. sorry. |
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| 09:52.08 | crashoverride | it was clear the first time. |
| 09:52.18 | crashoverride | you're not the only one dealing with those kind of problems |
| 09:52.47 | systemdlete | Oh I am sure others have struggles too, esp with so many proprietary impediments out there |
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| 09:55.56 | crashoverride | and honestly, going by reviews when buying a phone/tablet as a computer enthusiast (or worse, IT professional) is like checking the call of duty chat before buying a firearm. |
| 09:56.35 | ShorTie | snickers |
| 09:57.44 | systemdlete | Well, I do more than that. I also check which chipset it has and other technical specs on it, bands, features. |
| 09:58.15 | Wonka | check lineageos wiki... |
| 09:58.53 | Wonka | maybe even checkout the git repo containing the data files for said wiki, grep through them for features you want... |
| 09:59.12 | systemdlete | And when I do check reviews, I look at the worst reviews first. If there are like 50 people who complain about, say, a disk drive burning out the first week, I'll avoid that product. |
| 09:59.33 | systemdlete | thanks Wonka, will do. |
| 09:59.37 | Wonka | my next one might be either a FairPhone 3+ or some OnePlus device |
| 10:00.08 | crashoverride | I honestly am at loss when considering what to get next. |
| 10:00.16 | crashoverride | everything is terrible. |
| 10:00.16 | Wonka | hope there'll be a FairPhone 4 soon, featuring 5G |
| 10:00.19 | Wonka | yep |
| 10:00.55 | crashoverride | yeah, fairphone 4, now with unibody. But hey, you can easily access the battery. It's glued, but you can look at it! |
| 10:01.30 | djph | ugh |
| 10:01.41 | crashoverride | djph: I mean... |
| 10:01.54 | systemdlete | The worst part for me is the dread of calling upon the tech support, which is always in some dark cavern somewhere on the other side of the planet where people do not understand basic things like "I did not check the box. In fact, I never saw it." |
| 10:02.14 | crashoverride | systemdlete: what box? |
| 10:02.20 | djph | why... WHY ... does RAID-5 have to mock me? |
| 10:02.39 | Wonka | I have had really bad luck with four of my last five Android devices. Optimus 2X - Nvidia Tegra chipset, closed source. Nexus 7 (2012) - that flash problem. Asus Zenfone - x86, support got cancelled. bq Aquaris X2 Pro - first Android One to receive support for only two years instead of usually guaranteed 3 years. |
| 10:02.40 | systemdlete | Or, how about this one: "I gave you my credit card to PURCHASE the item or service. THat was NOT permission to bill me for other things." |
| 10:02.42 | crashoverride | djph: because RAID60 told it to laugh in your face |
| 10:02.51 | djph | fair enough |
| 10:03.03 | djph | ... but now I gotta go find something big to backup stuff to |
| 10:03.04 | Wonka | crashoverride: fairphone with glued battery will not happen... |
| 10:03.16 | djph | and burn it to the ground and start over with big drives |
| 10:03.28 | crashoverride | Wonka: yeah, and before that we said: fairphone with mainboard and screen in one part will not happen |
| 10:03.56 | crashoverride | djph: solid plan |
| 10:04.36 | djph | crashoverride: yeah, I'm just more disappoint that "oh, you don't have to worry about this with LVM" was not accurate |
| 10:04.42 | crashoverride | Wonka: sorry, my bad, those are the EXACT two parts of the FP3. |
| 10:04.56 | crashoverride | nothing more, but still, you DO have a separate "everything" and a screen. |
| 10:05.27 | djph | further reading / digging was "oh, you don't have to worry about it when going to N to N+M drives" |
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| 10:06.06 | crashoverride | djph: when people say "you don't have to worry", it almost always mean "I got lucky and I didn't realize" |
| 10:07.40 | crashoverride | you can even find gifs of people doing things incredibly stupid and lethal, being miraculously spared; and going at it again believing they can't die. |
| 10:08.20 | crashoverride | but due to the nature of that bias, I don't think there's enough scientific evidence of people who have it and stay alive for it to ever be named. |
| 10:09.30 | Wonka | on https://shop.fairphone.com/en/spare-parts?phone_type=4&ref=header, I see "Display", "top module", "bottom module", "speaker module", "battery", "back cover", "camera". That's seven parts. |
| 10:09.59 | crashoverride | battery isn't really a part. |
| 10:10.07 | crashoverride | same for "back cover" |
| 10:10.48 | crashoverride | now, lemme have a look at the rest, because I'm pretty positive "top" and "bottom" modules are ridiculous 10g modules with barely anything in them |
| 10:11.03 | crashoverride | and "speaker" and "camera" are actually removable on most phones. |
| 10:11.29 | crashoverride | so yeah, don't even need to look at the link |
| 10:11.33 | crashoverride | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c4/Fairphone_3_modules_on_display.jpg |
| 10:11.36 | crashoverride | here it is. |
| 10:11.39 | systemdlete | It's a good thing that every model of phone of every different manufacturer have not tried to standardize their battery sizes. It's more fun this way, and you can't try to cheat them out of THEIR profits by using the battery from an old phone in a different phone. |
| 10:11.51 | djph | crashoverride: yeah, I went and dug into the documentation, and it's vague as to whether you can just extend the RAID virtual drive or not |
| 10:12.02 | crashoverride | you can CLEARLY see that 90% easily of the bulk of the phone is copmletely sealed on the mainboard on the right |
| 10:12.07 | djph | seems it might be related to the specific firmware, MAYBE |
| 10:12.09 | systemdlete | This way, you have to hunt for the exact battery model you need. Good luck finding it. |
| 10:12.34 | systemdlete | but this really should be in O.T., guys... |
| 10:13.14 | crashoverride | the entire content of the chan for most of today should have been in #devuan-offtopic |
| 10:13.47 | systemdlete | well, maybe. But I did come here with a rather devuan-specific question myself. Thereafter, my convo wandered... |
| 10:13.54 | djph | oh well, rebuilding the array gives me reason to just install beowulf on said machine |
| 10:14.10 | systemdlete | We'd better run to #devuan-offtopic before the cop arrives |
| 10:14.22 | crashoverride | djph: don't derp like me and install an x86 system on an x86_64 machine... |
| 10:14.46 | djph | crashoverride: I'm good there. I don't even download x86 images :) |
| 10:15.17 | crashoverride | Wonka: yeah so after verification, the FP3 modules are literally cameras and microphones only. |
| 10:16.08 | crashoverride | it's like saying your computer is modular because you can unplug your keyboard, mouse and webcam |
| 10:16.16 | systemdlete | is rolling on the floor... "derp" I love it! |
| 10:16.53 | crashoverride | djph: I had to deploy devuan on an old computer, and I never re-setup my installation medium. |
| 10:17.02 | djph | oops :) |
| 10:17.04 | systemdlete | is too easy to amuse, really. |
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| 10:17.25 | crashoverride | djph: and worst part, up to yesterday, I actually had 2.6GiB of total ram. |
| 10:17.31 | crashoverride | djph: on a 16GiB system. |
| 10:17.36 | djph | hah |
| 10:17.42 | crashoverride | yeah |
| 10:17.52 | crashoverride | didn't know it was x86 y'see? |
| 10:18.17 | crashoverride | I was just assuming "modern software" was getting all cosy and dandy with all this ram |
| 10:19.09 | crashoverride | and windowsed its way into most of it because "DeVeLoPeR tImE iS mOrE eXpEnSiVe ThAn RAM!!!!1111eleven" |
| 10:20.04 | djph | yup |
| 10:21.50 | systemdlete | BeD TiMe BbL |
| 10:22.04 | Wonka | crashoverride: that's still way more than other phones. |
| 10:22.06 | crashoverride | systemdlete: no need to take that tone bro :P |
| 10:22.18 | crashoverride | Wonka: ok, that's fair. |
| 10:23.00 | crashoverride | Wonka: kinda like saying "this anti-vaxxer got sick, so in terms of antibodies, that's still way more than the other ones" |
| 10:23.00 | systemdlete | looks at his comments to examine tone. None found. Rolls over again and back to sleep... |
| 10:23.23 | crashoverride | but aside from that, it also is true |
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| 14:26.37 | x_ | waiting... on boot (Confuguring network interfaces ... ifup... waiting...) |
| 14:27.12 | mason | x_: Is that a recently converted system? |
| 14:28.05 | x_ | devuan 3.1.0 + some mx packages |
| 14:28.41 | mason | x_: If so, that's around where I do this in my migrations: apt --purge install eudev systemd- libnss-systemd- elogind- |
| 14:29.32 | x_ | and autologin doesnt work |
| 14:31.48 | x_ | thank you |
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| 14:49.27 | crashoverride | mason: couldn't someone write a script to convert debian to devuan? |
| 14:50.40 | mason | crashoverride: The trouble is that the process includes (for me) a couple reboots. This can be scripted with various bits being handed off, but the process ought to be simple enough to have manual application actually be simpler. |
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| 14:54.28 | mason | crashoverride: Freshly re-annotated: https://bpa.st/4JVQ |
| 14:54.30 | crashoverride | mason: technically, an RC script can make it automatic even with reboots. |
| 14:54.54 | mason | crashoverride: Right. But the actual steps are minimal enough that hiding them away might not be a service to the user. |
| 14:55.07 | crashoverride | RC services can display text. |
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| 15:02.43 | crashoverride | mason: is there a version that I can read the link without a multiple-MiB SGML parser? |
| 15:05.17 | mason | crashoverride: Other than the contents of sources.list, that's all stuff I paste into my root shell. I see no SGML here. And it's 31 lines including whitespace and comments. |
| 15:05.44 | crashoverride | mason: it is literally 122 lines. |
| 15:06.38 | mason | crashoverride: bpaste renders here without needing JavaScript and it presents no ads, so I'm not sure what your software is doing. Are you using wget or something? |
| 15:06.51 | crashoverride | curl. |
| 15:07.03 | mason | crashoverride: try w3m or elinks instead |
| 15:07.08 | crashoverride | literally: curl -SsL https://bpa.st/4JVQ | less |
| 15:07.21 | crashoverride | mason: w3m and elinks are SGML parsers. |
| 15:07.29 | crashoverride | I was asking for a raw paste. |
| 15:07.35 | mason | crashoverride: You might want to make use of a World Wide Web client here. |
| 15:07.48 | crashoverride | okay I'll grep |
| 15:08.11 | mason | I'm afraid I can't help with this. It's a bit silly. |
| 15:08.15 | crashoverride | curl -SsL https://bpa.st/raw/4JVQ |
| 15:08.42 | crashoverride | it was too hard for you to visually identify the "raw" link, it's much easier for me to guess what it's gonna be called and grep it. |
| 15:08.52 | crashoverride | fine. |
| 15:09.11 | crashoverride | anyhow, I can now read. |
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| 15:34.18 | crashoverride | mason: is that enough to migrate? |
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| 15:37.46 | mason | crashoverride: It's what I've used, directly. I'd tend to pull out anything complex I know I can just reinstall, to simplify the process. |
| 15:42.23 | crashoverride | like? |
| 15:42.25 | crashoverride | Xorg? |
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| 15:56.49 | crashoverride | any idea how to restrict a package to a specific repo? |
| 16:08.04 | ShorTie | pin it |
| 16:09.19 | ShorTie | a list for a hole repro like raspi.list |
| 16:15.14 | crashoverride | myeah well |
| 16:15.30 | crashoverride | I have no idea what you wrote. |
| 16:17.12 | crashoverride | weird |
| 16:17.21 | crashoverride | devuan is missing some packages... |
| 16:19.53 | crashoverride | I have actually ZERO idea how bad this is |
| 16:20.12 | crashoverride | but I just downloaded a couple debs from debian sid and `dpkg -i` them. |
| 16:20.22 | crashoverride | problem solved (for now, this sounds like it's gonna blow in my face later) |
| 16:20.42 | tuxd3v | crashoverride, what is your hardware? |
| 16:21.05 | crashoverride | my hardware or my arch? |
| 16:21.23 | tuxd3v | yes, what board are you running? |
| 16:21.38 | crashoverride | one sec, will look up |
| 16:21.43 | tuxd3v | x86? |
| 16:22.59 | crashoverride | my board is a 20AN0072GE |
| 16:24.11 | tuxd3v | ho you are running x86, I tough for a moment that you were running arm or arm64, my bad :/ |
| 16:24.44 | crashoverride | I should be running x86_64 really, but my current arch is i686. |
| 16:25.05 | crashoverride | I find your questions confusing. |
| 16:25.39 | crashoverride | you asked for my hardware, and you ended up talking about the arch for which the software I run has been built. |
| 16:25.39 | tuxd3v | crashoverride, if you find it confusing its because its confusing :) |
| 16:25.51 | crashoverride | there's nothing confusing. |
| 16:25.58 | crashoverride | There's a board: 20AN0072GE |
| 16:26.14 | crashoverride | There's a CPU: i7-4810MQ |
| 16:26.27 | crashoverride | There's a software arch: i686 |
| 16:26.46 | tuxd3v | yeah you should have replied that you have a lenovo 14" laptop, and I would now at that very moment that you were running x86 or x86_64 |
| 16:27.07 | crashoverride | well, you asked about my "hardware" |
| 16:27.13 | tuxd3v | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:27.18 | crashoverride | you're lucky I didn't tell you what gun I own or what car I drive :D |
| 16:27.54 | tuxd3v | crashoverride, indeed |
| 16:27.55 | crashoverride | either way |
| 16:28.06 | tuxd3v | what packages are you complaining about? |
| 16:28.51 | crashoverride | nng-utils, libnng1, and libnsl2. |
| 16:29.25 | crashoverride | the rest was available in the normal repositories. |
| 16:31.22 | crashoverride | is it a hell of a lot of noise for 2 files... |
| 16:31.30 | crashoverride | (and two symlinks) |
| 16:31.53 | crashoverride | ok, 3 files, actually. |
| 16:31.59 | crashoverride | 3 packages, 3 files. |
| 16:32.17 | tuxd3v | I am in Chimaera( i686 ), and those packages are available |
| 16:32.30 | crashoverride | yeah but that's not stable is it? |
| 16:32.49 | tuxd3v | not yet |
| 16:32.54 | crashoverride | exactly. |
| 16:32.57 | crashoverride | what versions do you have? |
| 16:34.03 | tuxd3v | https://paste.debian.net/hidden/53d183bd/ |
| 16:34.23 | crashoverride | SGML again. |
| 16:34.30 | crashoverride | can't you people use normal pastebins? |
| 16:34.59 | tuxd3v | nope, is has tons of javascript trying to mess with my cookies and the rest :) |
| 16:35.51 | tuxd3v | cookies are a precious thing to me, I guard them close to my chest :) |
| 16:36.11 | crashoverride | I see. |
| 16:36.38 | crashoverride | so I got *exactly* the same versions installed. |
| 16:37.54 | crashoverride | would be cool, maybe, to put them into backports? |
| 16:38.05 | mason | crashoverride: Sorry, there's enough going on that I often won't see replies on IRC if they don't hit a highlight. Yes, graphical stuff, things like LibreOffice, web browsers... Big things that have lots of dependencies. |
| 16:38.15 | crashoverride | yep |
| 16:38.16 | tuxd3v | have you tried the backports way? |
| 16:38.42 | crashoverride | tuxd3v: no, that's why I'm complaining about them not being on backports. Because I didn't look. Otherwise, I might know they aren't there. |
| 16:44.26 | gateway2000 | crashoverride what release are you on |
| 16:45.27 | gateway2000 | those packages aren't in buster either |
| 16:51.20 | crashoverride | gateway2000: < crashoverride> but I just downloaded a couple debs from debian sid and `dpkg -i` them. |
| 16:51.58 | crashoverride | and to answer your question, I'm using beowulf. |
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| 17:00.00 | mason | crashoverride: Better to manually backport rather than trying to fit binary packages from another release. |
| 17:00.11 | crashoverride | manually backport? |
| 17:00.24 | crashoverride | what's that? |
| 17:00.45 | mason | https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation for example |
| 17:01.16 | crashoverride | ah yeah, no. |
| 17:01.23 | crashoverride | I'm not gonna be a debian maintainer because of 3 files. |
| 17:01.31 | crashoverride | thank you very much. |
| 17:02.32 | mason | Just trying to help. It's really not that hard. |
| 17:03.29 | crashoverride | but this is literally 3 files. |
| 17:03.36 | crashoverride | not exagerating here. |
| 17:04.13 | crashoverride | if you'd check how much data is from the actual payload and how much is from the package management and conventions, I wouldn't be surprised more than half is added as overhead. |
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| 17:07.00 | crashoverride | plus, according to tuxd3v, those files are in Chimera, so when I upgrade, I'll be fine. |
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| 17:08.36 | golinux | The files will be in chimaera not chimera. ;) |
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| 17:13.30 | gateway2000 | I don't know who was here earlier but I had a problem with tofu characters on the desktop from the live install - I did end up reinstalling from the installer iso and the problem was resolved - not sure why this happened |
| 17:14.52 | gateway2000 | Oops nevermind I'm doublechecking and they're still there - in the Display xfce4 settings module, my monitor name is nonsense |
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| 17:19.36 | gateway2000 | https://i.imgur.com/J7Ydq7x.png |
| 17:20.06 | gateway2000 | This is what I'm talking about - it's supposed to say IBM 17" - I don't know if anybody else's run into this. |
| 17:21.22 | gateway2000 | I've tried regenerating locales and it didn't do anything. It's also strange that in the live usb session this doesn't happen, and it actually didn't happen in the installed OS either at first, I just rechecked it and it's come back |
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| 17:36.05 | gateway2000 | Since it doesn't have after install, but happens eventually, maybe that means it has to do with packages I installed post-installation |
| 17:36.31 | gateway2000 | Sorry to flood the channel, if anybody has any ideas I'm all ears. |
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| 17:37.49 | crashoverride | gateway2000: what are tofu characters? |
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| 17:38.37 | gateway2000 | crashoverride Nonsense filler characters - for example like in the screenshot I shared |
| 17:40.43 | crashoverride | gateway2000: are you maybe using a non-UTF8 locale? |
| 17:41.28 | gateway2000 | I thought maybe that had happened on accident, but locale outputs en_US.UTF-8 down the line |
| 17:42.17 | crashoverride | well, clearly *something* isn't UTF8 here. |
| 17:42.32 | gateway2000 | I turned off one of my monitors in grub with a kernel line, when my build is finished I'm going to try undoing that and rebooting to see if that makes a difference |
| 17:42.39 | gateway2000 | Yeah something's up for sure |
| 17:43.21 | gateway2000 | in xsettings the monitor name is correct. just not in the gui display module |
| 17:44.41 | crashoverride | gateway2000: do you know what the first character is supposed to be? |
| 17:44.52 | gateway2000 | should be I |
| 17:45.02 | gateway2000 | the name is supposed to be IBM 17" |
| 17:45.03 | crashoverride | IP? |
| 17:45.06 | crashoverride | ah |
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| 17:47.13 | rm | France o.o |
| 17:47.27 | gateway2000 | yeah I know right |
| 17:47.34 | gateway2000 | Never seen anything like it |
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| 17:49.21 | crashoverride | The only thing I can sortof make up with it is å |
| 17:49.23 | rm | try a memtest |
| 17:50.12 | rm | with memtest86+, i.e. rebooting into it |
| 17:50.43 | rm | I'd use a live CD from https://grml.org/, and it has that memtest in "add-ons" |
| 17:51.28 | crashoverride | ah, no, could also be á |
| 17:52.27 | crashoverride | I'm guessing "France" is placeholder for your font for the UTF8 French flag. |
| 17:57.36 | gateway2000 | Okay thanks all. Gonna reboot, try a few things. Will be back |
| 17:57.51 | rm | next we know the thing is overclocked :) |
| 17:58.07 | crashoverride | quick question |
| 17:58.38 | crashoverride | when I dpkg --get-selections, the stuff that is listed as 'deinstall' is explicitely black listed, right? |
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| 18:43.50 | rwp | crashoverride, No. Those are packages that are in the "rc" state. Removed but Conffiles remain. The package is still half-installed in that state. |
| 18:44.00 | rwp | Try this: dpkg -l | grep ^rc |
| 18:44.02 | crashoverride | rwp: thanks :) |
| 18:44.16 | rwp | That is the difference between "removed" and "purged". |
| 18:44.23 | crashoverride | rwp: it's a package from the devuan installer that is in that state. |
| 18:44.33 | crashoverride | it's "deinstalled" literally |
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| 18:47.01 | gateway2000 | memtest said the memory's fine, my fiddling didn't do anything. guess I'll just forget about it |
| 18:47.23 | brocashelm | anyone here using a cyberpower ups with their devuan systems? i installed their powerpanel deb (said to work on debian 8) on ceres (unstable) and it works just fine. great cli tool to communicate with my ups as i'm tired of sudden power shutoffs (for a split second) in my area |
| 18:47.30 | brocashelm | https://www.cyberpowersystems.com/product/software/power-panel-personal/powerpanel-for-linux/ |
| 18:47.35 | brocashelm | i can check it out with sudo pwrstat -status |
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| 19:59.18 | plasma41 | brocashelm: Yes, I'm using a CyberPower UPS with my Devuan system. |
| 20:01.40 | plasma41 | I've never heard of PowerPanel before. I'm reading about it now |
| 20:04.49 | rwp | crashoverride, Right. "deinstalled" is the string stored in dpkg's /var/lib/dpkg/status file. Maps to "rc" in the "dpkg -l" output. Probably will also have "config-files" in the package status field. |
| 20:04.51 | brocashelm | yeah, it works really nicely. had no issues installing it on ceres |
| 20:05.23 | rwp | crashoverride, See "man dpkg-query" for documentation on package status states. |
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| 20:05.37 | plasma41 | brocashelm: It has a non-free license, unfortunately |
| 20:06.12 | brocashelm | true |
| 20:10.48 | plasma41 | brocashelm: The only other dedicated UPS monitoring and control software I've heard of is NUT (Network UPS Tools). It's packaged in De{bi,vu}an and is free software. |
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| 20:11.58 | brocashelm | i'm going to test that one out |
| 20:13.37 | plasma41 | brocashelm: There's also some UPS related functionality in the Xfce Power Manager. It does what little I need, so I've never done a deep dive into NUT. |
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| 20:16.58 | brocashelm | plasma41: i can see that |
| 20:47.39 | rwp | For APC UPS devices apcupsd works well and is free software and is packaged for the OS. |
| 20:58.01 | Centurion_Dan | I always stuck with nut - it has a profile for APC ups's |
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| 21:19.22 | fling | What is needed for openvpn to set nameserver? |
| 21:22.40 | rwp | VPNs and nameservers are interesting, if you need to have a specific one in order to get local names resolved from the VPN. |
| 21:23.20 | rwp | I don't have an alive configuration right now but I remember that I had used resolvconf with a custom script to do the right thing, coupled with server side config with OpenVPN. |
| 21:23.37 | rwp | Sorry that is such a vague, vague, vague description of one possible solution. |
| 21:24.18 | rwp | Having always been a bind user it pains me to recommend unbound which makes overriding nameservers trivially easy. |
| 21:24.57 | rwp | Additionally depending upon what you are doing and how you need to do it "sshuttle" is trivially easy to use with specific dns and works well, but is not a full VPN so it all depends. |
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