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| 00:13.26 | Sofi | Hi. I am trying to use openrc with Beowulf, and after a new install `rc-service` issnt found under either my user account or root. And im not sure if im the one doing anything wrong. `rc-status` works fine. |
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| 00:29.06 | gnarface | Sofi: not sure but i think you just use regular "service" ... the inherited debian openrc install still relies on sysvinit to actually start and stop stuff |
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| 00:30.04 | Sofi | gnarface: I do think i might have messed up more than just rc-service. As not even reboot/restart are valid commands. |
| 00:30.25 | gnarface | Sofi: they may simply be in a non-default package |
| 00:31.11 | gnarface | Sofi: make sure you have the sysvinit-core package |
| 00:34.07 | gnarface | Sofi: oh... heh. also, it might be there but just not in your default path anymore. for stupid reasons, they removed /sbin and /usr/sbin from root's default path |
| 00:34.33 | gnarface | (would only affect fresh installs, not upgrades from before |
| 00:34.34 | gnarface | ) |
| 00:34.45 | Sofi | It is installed. Used the default netinstall of 3.1.0. Installed only the needed packages to get a bootable system and installed `gnome-core`. I do feel like my step of installing gnome-core might be the culprit. |
| 00:34.52 | Sofi | Ill look at the default paths |
| 00:34.59 | Sofi | As it does feel like that as a bunch of stuff is missing |
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| 00:37.33 | Sofi | Yeah its in /sbin/ and its just not in the path... |
| 00:39.54 | gnarface | i think you want to change /etc/login.defs |
| 00:40.08 | gnarface | compared to an older version the difference will be obvious |
| 00:40.21 | gnarface | i think there might have been one other place you need to change it |
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| 10:28.04 | ifdown | has just re-installed the OS and asks which BIOS and GUI for QEMU are overall the best. |
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| 10:48.00 | xinomilo | personally i use libvirt/virt-manager but there are other GUIs too.. you can also search the forum, there was a discussion someplace iirc. |
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| 11:21.17 | ifdown | thanks! |
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| 14:13.55 | parsiplo | hi, I'm very interested about this sysd-free project and I was wondering about getting a 4g image for an old computer whih is offline. Seing that on the site devuan.org there is several choices from net install to live-desk but I couldn't find that very big iso. Being that is far from me to cause bandwith over consumption I just simply wish to know if it is still available, and where, that 4g iso full desktop. Thankks |
| 14:14.16 | parsiplo | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:15.49 | fsmithred | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_beowulf/installer-iso/ |
| 14:18.08 | parsiplo | thanks very much I've somehow missed that for a glance. Bye!!! I'll take a ride with that |
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| 20:01.11 | eyalroz | gnarface: Around? |
| 20:01.58 | eyalroz | Anyway, question for anyone interested: What's making my pulseaudio settings get reset (to invalid values) every once in a while? |
| 20:02.50 | golinux | Lennart is sticking pins into a voodoo doll? |
| 20:05.21 | gnarface | eyalroz: i really don't know, that one is new to me. i don't actually use pulseaudio here. |
| 20:05.24 | mason | eyalroz: I used to see that. PA would corrupt its own binary state and I'd have to kill it and erase the state before restarting. |
| 20:06.05 | eyalroz | mason: That's not quite it. I mean, it changes the "built-in audio profile" to a different setting, every once in a while |
| 20:06.23 | eyalroz | maybe it's even triggered by some routine events, I can't say. |
| 20:06.45 | mason | eyalroz: Yeah, it's sort of opaque that way. Over here, I stopped using it entirely. |
| 20:07.28 | eyalroz | mason: https://9to5linux.com/systemd-free-devuan-gnu-linux-3-1-distro-released-for-freedom-lovers |
| 20:07.50 | eyalroz | Have a look at the paragraph about "debian-pulseaudio-config-override" |
| 20:08.10 | gnarface | eyalroz: giving it the benefit of the doubt for having some plausible excuse for doing this, maybe what is happening is some other program you run has somehow "cached" or managed to somehow else persist the pulseaudio settings it was using last time it launched? just guessing |
| 20:08.45 | mason | eyalroz: Yeah. If you look, there's a config with a single line to change, and that's all that override does. Fairly simple to test. |
| 20:09.43 | eyalroz | Is that the autospawn thing? |
| 20:09.48 | fsmithred | eyalroz, look in /etc/pulse/client.conf.d |
| 20:09.50 | fsmithred | yes |
| 20:10.12 | eyalroz | Maybe I'll write the maintainer. |
| 20:10.18 | fsmithred | I'm guessing it's unrelated to your problem |
| 20:10.23 | fsmithred | what do you want to know about it? |
| 20:10.50 | eyalroz | fsmithred: I meant I'll ask him if he knows why my settings may be getting reset... |
| 20:10.51 | fsmithred | the version of that package in chimaera replaces the autospawn file with one that enables it instead of disables it |
| 20:11.02 | fsmithred | our version just deletes the file. Same effect. |
| 20:11.17 | eyalroz | if he knows about autospawning, maybe he knows about other periodic phenomena |
| 20:11.17 | fsmithred | if it's Mark, I will guess that he doesn't know the answer |
| 20:11.31 | eyalroz | Mark Hindley |
| 20:11.44 | fsmithred | I don't think he's a PA expert. He knows packaging very well. |
| 20:12.25 | eyalroz | mutters hunder his breath |
| 20:12.47 | fsmithred | speaking of settings re-setting themselves... |
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| 20:13.07 | fsmithred | there's a discussion about this happening in mate with some desktop settings |
| 20:13.12 | fsmithred | so maybe it's a new thing |
| 20:13.27 | fsmithred | it wouldn't surprise me |
| 20:14.17 | fsmithred | do we know where the settings are stored? |
| 20:14.29 | fsmithred | any chance it's a plain text file? |
| 20:15.21 | fsmithred | make a change and see what files under .config were just edited |
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| 20:29.00 | fsmithred | eyalroz, what settings did you change? |
| 20:29.21 | eyalroz | fsmithred: Just the "Built-in Audio" profile |
| 20:29.26 | eyalroz | via pavucontrol |
| 20:29.52 | fsmithred | ah, ok. I'm changing it to Analog Stereo Output |
| 20:30.40 | fsmithred | ok .config/pulse/...-default-soure and -default-sink changed |
| 20:30.41 | eyalroz | fsmithred: Me too, basically. Except that are dozens of options which fit that description. |
| 20:31.03 | fsmithred | I haven't looked yet, but I'm gonna bet that they are binary files |
| 20:32.02 | eyalroz | By the way, do you know why rtkit-demon might be spamming my logs? "Supervising N threads of M processes of 1 users." |
| 20:32.06 | fsmithred | oh, even better. They contain 1 byte, and I can't see it in my pager |
| 20:32.42 | numzob | cat <file> | xxd | less |
| 20:33.10 | nemo | eyalroz: if you ever figure that out. drives me bonkers too |
| 20:33.11 | fsmithred | what's xxd? |
| 20:33.22 | nemo | fsmithred: hex escape |
| 20:33.24 | fsmithred | anyone know what rtkit is? |
| 20:33.25 | eyalroz | fsmithred: I think it's a hex viewer |
| 20:33.30 | numzob | shows file (or input) as hex |
| 20:33.38 | nemo | fsmithred: I used it a lot with untrusted content or to find invisible characters |
| 20:33.40 | numzob | might be part of the vi package |
| 20:33.41 | nemo | or bad unicode |
| 20:34.00 | eyalroz | fsmithred: "RealtimeKit is a D-Bus system service that changes the scheduling policy of user processes/threads to SCHED_RR (i.e. realtime scheduling mode) on request. It is intended to be used as a secure mechanism to allow real-time scheduling to be used by normal user processes. " |
| 20:34.13 | fsmithred | 00000000: 0a |
| 20:34.19 | numzob | linefeed |
| 20:34.28 | eyalroz | fsmithred: You're the proud owner of a newline :-) |
| 20:34.33 | numzob | 0a is a linefeed. so, one line textfile |
| 20:34.36 | fsmithred | lol |
| 20:34.42 | numzob | hey, now you know |
| 20:34.45 | nemo | eyalroz: current problems with pulseaudio... â a number of games that use Unity insist on the HDMI output from the TV even though it is much crappier than the computer's analog sound. I can't get them to change this even if I start the game with the TV HDMI sink disabled. oddly menu sound effects play, but not music. |
| 20:34.59 | mason | Useful: man ascii |
| 20:35.10 | nemo | eyalroz: â¡ The analog sound always shows up as "disabled" in the menu. |
| 20:35.11 | numzob | mason: word |
| 20:35.37 | eyalroz | nemo: But I don't run any games. Not to mention how my monitor doesn't support audio... |
| 20:35.38 | nemo | eyalroz: ⢠The TV HDMI randomly re-enables itself. I haven't figured out why. Possibly due to TV powering on and off? But it seems to happen even without that. I wish I could set it to not autostart |
| 20:35.49 | eyalroz | nemo: Ah, yes! |
| 20:35.52 | eyalroz | That could be it |
| 20:35.54 | fsmithred | eyalroz, do you need PA? |
| 20:36.01 | eyalroz | monitor power-off, then monitor power-on... |
| 20:36.14 | eyalroz | when I'm AFK for a while, it goes to sleep |
| 20:36.37 | eyalroz | fsmithred: No, I just need my audio to work in all/almost all apps. |
| 20:36.40 | nemo | eyalroz: I only want to ever manually enable it. and I'd probably *never* enable it if I could figure out how to fix â |
| 20:36.43 | nemo | the sound quality is much worse |
| 20:36.45 | fsmithred | nemo, switching order of sound cards doesn't help? |
| 20:37.11 | eyalroz | fsmithred: Probably not, because the on-board audio is the first on my system, and stays the first. |
| 20:37.13 | nemo | fsmithred: I'm not very clueful as to how one does that. I tried messing around in PA conf, and just broke everything after copying and pasting some lines from a stackoverflow or ubuntu questions |
| 20:37.17 | nemo | fsmithred: so I just gave up |
| 20:37.30 | nemo | fsmithred: I'd love it there was a way to persist changes in pavucontrol |
| 20:37.35 | nemo | like export to a file to copy system-wide |
| 20:37.36 | fsmithred | oh, I've only done it in alsa. |
| 20:37.51 | fsmithred | PA is supposed to be exactly for solving the problem of multiple sound cards |
| 20:37.52 | eyalroz | fsmithred: Maybe Devuan should also adopt a "no pulseaudio" policy, on account of it being a little too systemd-like... |
| 20:37.52 | nemo | oh. and ofc rebooting resets eeeeverything |
| 20:37.56 | nemo | heh |
| 20:38.12 | eyalroz | I'm only half-joking... |
| 20:38.15 | fsmithred | I would not try to argue that PA is systemd-like |
| 20:38.36 | eyalroz | hey, binary configuration files and takes over stuff :-( |
| 20:38.40 | fsmithred | but it does seem to be, uh.... |
| 20:38.42 | gnarface | eyalroz: i just had a thought. try disabling auto-mute mode in alsamixer and pavucontrol |
| 20:38.45 | fsmithred | a problem application |
| 20:39.28 | eyalroz | gnarface: Where is "auto mute mode"? |
| 20:39.32 | eyalroz | in pavucontrol |
| 20:39.52 | fsmithred | we've had a fair number of requests and questions about why PA is installed by default and can we fix that to be otherwise. |
| 20:40.14 | eyalroz | fsmithred: Isn't it installed by default becaun Debian installs it by default? |
| 20:40.14 | gnarface | eyalroz: if it's actually changing profiles from jack hotplug or device power state changes, i've seen that with auto-mute mode in alsamixer. i think pavucontrol might have duplicated the functionality so you will have to turn off both |
| 20:40.46 | eyalroz | gnarface: Also, where is auto-mute in alsamixergui ? |
| 20:40.48 | fsmithred | sort of. I forget which package pulls it in. |
| 20:41.37 | fsmithred | xfce4 depends xfce4-pulseaudio-plugin which recommends pulseaudio |
| 20:41.45 | gnarface | eyalroz: it should be in the playback tab... called "Auto-Mute Mode" just a on/off toggle like the S/PDIF ones |
| 20:41.51 | eyalroz | gnarface: Ah, found it in text mode alsamixer |
| 20:41.59 | eyalroz | it's enabled for my on-board audio |
| 20:42.14 | gnarface | eyalroz: i think pavucontrol has the same thing but called something else. you'll have to look. |
| 20:42.42 | gnarface | eyalroz: i disable it because even if you know what it's doing and when, false-fires still sabotage it |
| 20:43.18 | gnarface | (but also, as soon as they added it i was like "wtf?! i didn't ask for this!" |
| 20:43.21 | gnarface | ) |
| 20:43.31 | eyalroz | gnarface: ... it doesn't exist in my pavucontrol, at all. |
| 20:43.56 | gnarface | eyalroz: i can't be sure it's not a config file option they don't expose in the gui, but i also can't be sure it shows up for all hardware |
| 20:43.57 | fsmithred | I don't see it, either |
| 20:44.19 | gnarface | eyalroz: (my pulseaudio experience is largely based on hearsay from providing support to it tangentially in #alsa) |
| 20:44.53 | eyalroz | gnarface: I understand... and am very appreciative of your help. |
| 20:45.04 | gnarface | eyalroz: if it stops changing volume levels when you plug/unplug stuff you got the important one |
| 20:45.12 | fsmithred | oh, it's not in alsamixer either. Not using real hardware here. |
| 20:45.23 | eyalroz | gnarface: I haven't had trouble with volumne level changes. |
| 20:45.30 | gnarface | yea, even in alsamixer it is something not all hardware supports |
| 20:45.38 | gnarface | eyalroz: well i'm meaning mute/unmute too |
| 20:45.55 | eyalroz | gnarface: that's not a problem either. |
| 20:46.02 | eyalroz | It's just the switching of where audio goes. |
| 20:46.12 | gnarface | eyalroz: i'm presuming if you actually analyze alsamixer after you see the pulseaudio state changes, you'll see alsmixer state changes occurred too |
| 20:46.17 | eyalroz | ... I'm 95% sure that's not the same thing. |
| 20:46.36 | gnarface | eyalroz: if not, then you're right and this is probably something whack with pulseaudio that is unrelated |
| 20:46.45 | gnarface | eyalroz: do you have avahi-daemon running too? |
| 20:47.21 | eyalroz | gnarface: yes |
| 20:47.38 | gnarface | i think avahi could be the culprit as well |
| 20:48.11 | gnarface | in fact that's the first thing i'd test if you don't actually need avahi |
| 20:48.20 | gnarface | see if it stops misbehaving if avahi is not running |
| 20:48.41 | gnarface | i pitched that one overboard on the same day as pulseaudio, actually |
| 20:49.39 | gnarface | you might want to ask in #pulseaudio |
| 20:49.50 | gnarface | maybe they know something |
| 20:52.13 | gnarface | pulseaudio is one of those projects that likes to pretend their config files really don't need manual intervention, but from what i've seen in here they frequently do |
| 20:52.57 | gnarface | i could help you learn how to do without it easier than i could help you fix it |
| 20:52.58 | numzob | like Windows ;) |
| 20:55.19 | eyalroz | gnarface: What would I need avahi for? Is it an HW plug-in detector and event launcher? |
| 20:56.06 | eyalroz | I wonder which other projects behave this way... |
| 20:57.46 | fsmithred | I think the job of avahi is to announce to the world that your computer is available |
| 20:58.06 | fsmithred | finds and announces services, doesn't it? |
| 20:58.07 | gnarface | eyalroz: yes, it's like auto-mute mode for your ethernet jacks. as horrifying as that is on its own, i can't be sure off the top of my head it can't touch other stuff. there's a nebulous crossover between what constitutes an "audio devices" vs a "network device" when it comes to hdmi, usb, and firewire. |
| 20:58.20 | fsmithred | ok, why would a bootloader be dependend on pulseaudio? |
| 20:58.30 | gnarface | fsmithred: yes it's an open source implementation of Apple's Bonjour protocols |
| 20:58.40 | gnarface | fsmithred: (aiui) |
| 20:58.45 | fsmithred | au revoir |
| 20:59.06 | fsmithred | removing PA wants to remove shim-signed and some other related stuff |
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| 21:09.49 | eyalroz | fsmithred: if you're asking that question then it must be grub? |
| 21:11.15 | fsmithred | Description: Secure Boot chain-loading bootloader (Microsoft-signed binary) |
| 21:11.15 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:11.35 | fsmithred | depends on grub-efi-amd64-bin |
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| 21:33.58 | gnarface | fsmithred: wait, so they for real made you require pulseaudio to boot from efi, or is that just a devuan package mistake? |
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| 21:42.19 | fsmithred | gnarface, it's not in any packages that we fork |
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| 21:44.20 | fsmithred | that would have been removed with pulseaudio |
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| 22:02.03 | ricardo_ | Hi all, I have a question. I need firmware for my wifi, it is intel iwm-9000. The package on Debian is iwm-firmware-20191022p1.tgz I tried adding this package with a USB during the Devuan install, but it didn't install it. What is the Devuan equivalent nonfree firmware package for the iwm-9000 wifi chip? |
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| 22:16.37 | fsmithred | ricardo_, we don't fork any of the firmware packages, so they should all be the same ones that are in debian |
| 22:17.31 | fsmithred | I think you want firmware-iwlwifi |
| 22:18.09 | fsmithred | if so, it should get installed if you need it. You should not need to put it on a usb. |
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| 22:25.00 | fsmithred | there's a newer one in beowulf-backports if the one in beowulf is not new enough |
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| 23:31.45 | ricardo_ | fsmithred thanks for the reply! That helps! |
| 23:37.32 | ricardo_ | fsmithred It worked! thanks for your help |
| 23:37.55 | fsmithred | yw |
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