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| 02:12.55 | Wafficus | hey there, question about LxQt on Devuan, I installed 'LxQt' within Devuan and can boot into "LxQt Desktop" via the related Desktop profile that was installed, with the help of 'lightdm' |
| 02:13.14 | Wafficus | however, when I boot into it, and right click the middle wallpaper, I get a blank context menu but in theme of what's present |
| 02:13.54 | Wafficus | I wanted to ask if I'm missing something, because I wanted to see how I can add gtk themes to it to RICE it a bit to make it look like old school Macintosh from the 80 |
| 02:13.56 | Wafficus | 80s* |
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| 02:27.00 | bru | Hello, I have two audio devices on ALSA which I toggle by changing my .asoundrc file. The question is, is there any easy way to change the output device in mpd (which also has an ALSA output) without having to restart it? |
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| 03:09.20 | Wafficus | hey there, can anyone help me with LxQt on Devuan? |
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| 03:50.45 | gnarface | Wafficus: still there? there should be some themes packages... search the repo like: "apt-cache search themes" |
| 03:51.17 | gnarface | Wafficus: for example try installing lxqt-themes and restarting? |
| 03:51.26 | gnarface | you might only have to relog |
| 03:52.21 | gnarface | you probably want some gtk themes and such too |
| 03:53.19 | gnarface | bru: does mpd have an interface for changing the device name or do you have to set it in a config file? |
| 03:53.44 | gnarface | bru: look for some preferences menu, i don't know mpd |
| 03:54.02 | gnarface | bru: only other way would be to use pulseaudio or jack or something like that |
| 04:01.16 | golinux | the default clearlooks-phenix-ascii or -cinnabar has an openbox theme |
| 04:01.32 | golinux | Wafficus: ^^^ |
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| 04:36.57 | Wafficus | golinux:ah I see thanks |
| 04:37.59 | Wafficus | gnarface: the issue though is that when I right click the desktop, I get like a black menu with no context clues |
| 04:38.21 | Wafficus | like if I click into what I think would be a proper rectangle subdivision, it'll open stuff, but idk if the base theme is messed up or whatever |
| 04:38.31 | Wafficus | I'll try updating and see if that helps though whenever I can though |
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| 05:23.49 | Wafficus | yeah I updated my Devuan install |
| 05:23.58 | Wafficus | but same thing happens when I right click the wallpaper, even if I change the theme |
| 05:24.09 | Wafficus | just a blank dark or white menu that appears |
| 05:27.28 | golinux | Maybe some gtk2 libs are missing? |
| 05:28.01 | golinux | Or gtk2-engines? |
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| 05:30.49 | golinux | Wafficus: ^^^ |
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| 05:32.22 | golinux | That was a problem early on that I vaguely remember and installing those libs fixed it on Xfce. |
| 05:35.16 | Wafficus | I see |
| 05:35.25 | Wafficus | so can I install Xfce and use GTK themes btw? |
| 05:35.43 | Wafficus | I was gonna try that route anyway, since this is on a Desktop machine and I don't mind having multiple DE's to choose from anyway |
| 05:35.48 | Wafficus | golinux: |
| 05:40.13 | golinux | Yes! You will get this theme for beowulf https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2646 |
| 05:42.00 | Wafficus | btw, how do I logoff from Devuan, I honestly forget |
| 05:42.06 | Wafficus | its not poweroff I know that |
| 05:42.21 | Wafficus | I'm looking for old school Macintosh themes honestly |
| 05:42.29 | Wafficus | that or MAYBE Windows 95 or 98 |
| 05:47.37 | golinux | It is the default. Don't like red? |
| 05:49.33 | golinux | Wafficus . . . someone just posted a Chicago95 theme for linux if I can find it |
| 05:50.53 | golinux | Here you go https://github.com/grassmunk/Chicago95 |
| 05:53.31 | Wafficus | yeah thanks, I saw that too |
| 05:53.34 | Wafficus | neat stuff |
| 05:53.43 | Wafficus | just need to figure out how to change the theme |
| 05:53.49 | Wafficus | ah, its not like I don't mind the default theme |
| 05:53.58 | Wafficus | but I kinda had a goal in mind to make it like old school Macintosh |
| 05:54.03 | Wafficus | OR Windoze 95 or 98 |
| 05:54.10 | Wafficus | however, Mac would be holy grail for me, idk |
| 05:58.53 | golinux | It's easy in Xfce |
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| 06:08.30 | Wafficus | golinux: I can't seem to figure out how to import the GTK3 theme I found into Xfce |
| 06:08.40 | Wafficus | I placed it in /home/sam/local/share/themes/ |
| 06:08.50 | Wafficus | but I don't know how to access the 'theme' manager for XFCE to change it over |
| 06:10.55 | golinux | Just drop the files into /usr/share/themes/ or in /home/sam/.themes |
| 06:11.53 | golinux | settings - appearance - style |
| 06:12.20 | golinux | from the applications menu in the panel |
| 06:14.00 | Wafficus | so I have two separate themes |
| 06:14.07 | Wafficus | /home/sam/.themes/MacOS9ClassicTheme |
| 06:14.14 | Wafficus | and /home/sam/MacSystem4Theme |
| 06:14.31 | Wafficus | inside each of these theme folders, there's a 'assets' folder with a gtk.css file present |
| 06:14.44 | Wafficus | when I go to Settings > Appearance > Style, I don't see this listed here |
| 06:15.00 | Wafficus | golinux: |
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| 06:15.51 | Wafficus | do I have to instead unpack the 'assets' folder up a directory aka unpack 'assets' into /home/sam/.themes/MacOS9ClassicTheme |
| 06:16.32 | golinux | There should be an index.there file in there with the info needed to identify the theme |
| 06:16.45 | golinux | .there > .theme |
| 06:17.30 | Wafficus | golinux: https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1316797/ |
| 06:17.39 | Wafficus | I don't know if there is an 'index' files there though |
| 06:17.44 | golinux | And the Xfce will find it |
| 06:17.50 | Wafficus | *file |
| 06:18.16 | golinux | it is titled index.theme and has this kind of information: |
| 06:18.43 | golinux | Hope I don't get slammed for this . . . |
| 06:19.08 | golinux | [Desktop Entry] |
| 06:19.08 | golinux | Type=X-GNOME-Metatheme |
| 06:19.08 | golinux | Name=Clearlooks-Ph�nix-DarkPurpy |
| 06:19.08 | golinux | Name[fr]=Clearlooks-Ph�nix-DarkPurpy |
| 06:19.08 | golinux | Comment=GTK3 port of Clearlooks |
| 06:19.10 | golinux | Comment[fr]=Version GTK3 de Clearlooks |
| 06:19.11 | golinux | Encoding=UTF-8 |
| 06:19.38 | Wafficus | they didn't include an 'index.theme' file though in the 'assets' directory |
| 06:20.17 | golinux | You probably won;t be able to paste as much as me. |
| 06:22.16 | Wafficus | right, but again, I don't see an 'index.theme' file in that link I gave above :/ |
| 06:22.25 | Wafficus | https://www.gnome-look.org/p/1316797/ |
| 06:22.34 | Wafficus | try unzipping it, and you'll see what I mean |
| 06:22.40 | Wafficus | in the gtk3 directory * |
| 06:22.58 | golinux | Just now seeing that. Give me a sec |
| 06:25.00 | golinux | I don;t really feel comfortable downloading that |
| 06:25.14 | Wafficus | ah believe me, its just a theme, that's all it is |
| 06:25.30 | Wafficus | I just have zero clue on what to do with a gtk3 theme that's it |
| 06:25.39 | Wafficus | it just has assets and a css file |
| 06:27.56 | golinux | It is picked up in the menu here |
| 06:28.45 | Wafficus | * you mean it works for you? |
| 06:29.02 | golinux | I see it in the appearance menu;. |
| 06:29.19 | Wafficus | I ask because I don't see anything in Settings > Apperance, since I have '/home/sam/.themes/MacOS9ClassicTheme/gtk-3.0' |
| 06:30.43 | Wafficus | how did you get it to work? |
| 06:31.05 | golinux | I downloaded a theme named System-4-1.0 from that page |
| 06:31.25 | Wafficus | oh I got it, cool |
| 06:31.27 | Wafficus | what's weird though |
| 06:31.32 | Wafficus | its just the "style" |
| 06:31.39 | Wafficus | do I have to change everything else accordingly right? |
| 06:31.54 | Wafficus | I still have like remnants of everything else, hard to explain |
| 06:32.09 | Wafficus | like it didn't change everything that I thought it would, unless I have to change all the other components around this as well |
| 06:32.24 | golinux | there is gtk-2.0, gtk-3.0 and a README and License |
| 06:33.46 | golinux | I did not activate it because . . . . well, it is soooo not my thing. |
| 06:34.15 | golinux | What is everything else? |
| 06:34.42 | golinux | The theme will only appear on the desktop windows |
| 06:34.58 | Wafficus | so I have to find out a way to make the "window manager" match the theme somehow I see |
| 06:36.17 | golinux | I don't see it as a window manager option |
| 06:36.56 | golinux | You might find one you like better there |
| 06:37.15 | golinux | though |
| 06:38.12 | Wafficus | dang, it doesn't even do the job half way done |
| 06:38.22 | Wafficus | kind of a bummer why I can't make it look like the screenshot, damn that sucks |
| 06:38.22 | golinux | Sorry I'm so slow. I've done the theme so many times, I do it on auto pilot and forget the exact details |
| 06:38.48 | Wafficus | yeah I just want it to match the screenshot, not interested in any of the modern stuff |
| 06:39.10 | Wafficus | kinda weird though, I guess the only way is to somehow just use Gnome since Xfce just isn't working like it should |
| 06:39.27 | golinux | Try the default" window manager option. I thnk you might like that. |
| 06:40.09 | Wafficus | it doesn't have that vertical bar Mac old school look, eh, not what I want at all |
| 06:40.24 | Wafficus | man, what a bummer, but that's my fault trying to look for dead themes I guess. |
| 06:41.10 | golinux | Anybody can post anything on that site. You never know what you're getting. |
| 06:41.41 | Wafficus | I guess, but I wonder why I can't just make it work though |
| 06:43.06 | golinux | Keep playing with it. I'm trying to finish the Chimeara openbox theme and really don't have the brain space to try to figure it pout myself. |
| 06:44.22 | golinux | Did you choose the default option in the window manager option from the setting menu? |
| 06:44.55 | golinux | IIRC it is similar to the screenshot |
| 06:45.07 | golinux | Black and white |
| 06:45.17 | Wafficus | its not even close though, that's like newer MacOS which I hate |
| 06:45.27 | Wafficus | I just want the old school Macintosh stuff, so yeah, idk |
| 06:45.32 | Wafficus | total bummer imo |
| 06:45.42 | Wafficus | I did check out the default one * not what I want |
| 06:45.50 | golinux | OK. |
| 06:46.43 | golinux | Too bad but you may find something you like even better. |
| 06:47.19 | Wafficus | yeah I gotcha, just bummed out, idk |
| 06:47.30 | Wafficus | I guess the only way to truly use that theme is maybe to utilize GNOME desktop then |
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| 06:47.58 | golinux | The Rolling Stones said it best . . . You can't always get what you want. This is life |
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| 06:49.15 | golinux | Now there a thought |
| 06:49.43 | golinux | Did you read the README? |
| 06:50.12 | golinux | ### Requirements |
| 06:50.12 | golinux | - GTK+ 3.20 or above |
| 06:50.12 | golinux | - Murrine and Pixmap theme engines |
| 06:50.29 | golinux | Do you have those installed? |
| 06:50.47 | golinux | Wafficus: ^^^ |
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| 06:58.05 | Wafficus | I have no idea |
| 06:58.15 | Wafficus | I thought maybe XFCE would have had the requirements installed |
| 06:58.32 | Wafficus | golinux: how would I know what's installed in terms of the GTK version? |
| 06:59.51 | golinux | Search your installed files |
| 07:00.57 | golinux | I use synaptic to do that. Sorry I don't have a command without digging it out. |
| 07:01.57 | golinux | Sometimes the requirement are theme specific. That's what a README id for |
| 07:02.55 | Wafficus | I hear you |
| 07:03.14 | Wafficus | I just have zero experience with this end of things |
| 07:03.25 | golinux | Sorry for th typos. I make a lot |
| 07:03.35 | Wafficus | I found maybe 'gtk3-engines-xfce/stable 3.2.0-4' maybe that's it |
| 07:03.55 | golinux | <golinux> ### Requirements |
| 07:03.55 | golinux | <golinux> - GTK+ 3.20 or above |
| 07:03.55 | golinux | <golinux> - Murrine and Pixmap theme engines |
| 07:04.06 | golinux | That is what you need |
| 07:05.06 | Wafficus | I see, I'll look on Apt thanks |
| 07:05.07 | golinux | GTK+ is not gtk3-engines-xfce |
| 07:05.52 | golinux | /var/cache/apt/ |
| 07:06.49 | Wafficus | I looked via apt-cache search gtk+ |
| 07:06.55 | Wafficus | can't find a specific package with that name yet |
| 07:07.38 | golinux | You'll need to install those 3 recommends to get it working properly. |
| 07:08.32 | golinux | Let me know how it goes. I should get back to work . . . |
| 07:08.43 | Wafficus | I see "gtk2-engines-murrine" |
| 07:09.00 | Wafficus | and I do see "pixmap" |
| 07:09.13 | Wafficus | but I just don't know about the "GTK+" requirement, can't find this on apt |
| 07:09.16 | golinux | You need gtk3 |
| 07:09.23 | golinux | not 2 |
| 07:09.41 | Wafficus | I tried apt install gtk3 :/ no dice |
| 07:11.05 | golinux | Maybe someone else will drop in to walk you thoguh this. I really need to get to work on the chimaera theme and it's after 1 am |
| 07:11.48 | golinux | You can search for available packages here https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.html |
| 07:12.03 | golinux | Hope you get it working . . . |
| 07:21.17 | Wafficus | yeah I tried finding it, and the only Debian package that's avaialble in stable is gtk+ 3.0 |
| 07:21.26 | Wafficus | how do I force Devuan to upgrade to the "Testing" branch? |
| 07:21.40 | Wafficus | *so that I could maybe get GTK+ 3.20? |
| 07:25.46 | golinux | Look in beowulf backports. Might be there. |
| 07:26.39 | Wafficus | ok |
| 07:27.49 | golinux | If you decide to upgrade. use chimaera in sources.list rather than "testing" |
| 07:28.15 | golinux | https://www.devuan.org/os/packages |
| 07:29.24 | Wafficus | yeah I tried looking with 'apt-cache -t beowulf-backports search gtk' |
| 07:31.51 | Wafficus | rather, I think I have to somehow add 'beowulf-backports' to apt's source list |
| 07:33.31 | rrq | Wafficus: https://pkginfo.devuan.org |
| 07:39.34 | Wafficus | hmm, seems like 'librust+gtk+v3-22-27' might be it |
| 07:41.47 | rrq | you might be lookingfor libgtk-3-2which is not available in devuan but it is available in debian/sid |
| 07:42.26 | rrq | or maybe not in sid either |
| 07:43.15 | Wafficus | I gotcha, hence the use of 'chimera' to actually pull it in |
| 07:43.29 | Wafficus | interesting, well I wrote down what I did so far, so I'll bother you guys later tomorrow then |
| 07:43.35 | Wafficus | thanks for the help on this golinux and rrq |
| 07:43.59 | Wafficus | I know I've been annoying. Its just one of those weird times when I actually wanted to RICE a desktop. It sucks that's its not that easy, but I think I'm getting close |
| 07:46.14 | golinux | rrq: he needs ### Requirements |
| 07:46.14 | golinux | GTK+ 3.20 or above |
| 07:46.14 | golinux | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:46.33 | golinux | In case you missed it above. |
| 07:47.11 | Wafficus | oh wait, its "Pixmap" theme and not 'Pixmap'? |
| 07:47.17 | Wafficus | like the "Pixmap" utility? |
| 07:47.20 | Wafficus | golinux: |
| 07:47.55 | golinux | No apologies neessary. I could apologize for being old and slow |
| 07:48.10 | golinux | Yes. package names and versions are very specific. |
| 07:48.39 | golinux | You have to pay close attention. |
| 07:49.13 | rrq | so what is the package name? blah.deb |
| 07:49.45 | golinux | GTK+ 3.20 or above and Murrine and Pixmap theme |
| 07:49.59 | golinux | That is all that was in the readme |
| 07:50.19 | rrq | ok, that's not a package name |
| 07:50.41 | golinux | That's all that was there. I copied and pasted here |
| 07:51.33 | golinux | It's a theme he picked up at gnomelook.org |
| 07:51.58 | Wafficus | right but the confusing thing is that the names don't even match what's present in the package manager |
| 07:52.25 | Wafficus | regardless though, I still don't kind of know how to be able to utilize that gtk+ 3.20 backport from Debian in that case though |
| 07:52.26 | golinux | Trial and error |
| 07:52.57 | Wafficus | it seems like I'd have to bump up to testing branch to be able to use that backport or something or chimera / whatever |
| 07:53.10 | golinux | I'll be no help there. I never mess with things like that. |
| 07:53.40 | golinux | chimaera note spelling |
| 07:54.06 | golinux | goes back to work |
| 07:54.50 | rrq | Wafficus: so what is the package name for "gtk+ 3.20" ? |
| 07:55.01 | Wafficus | hmm, even on the guy's site, this says this is compatible with "Gnome" or "Mate" |
| 07:55.08 | Wafficus | meaning, I'm not even being put in the right direction |
| 07:55.23 | Wafficus | https://b00merange.weebly.com/system-4.html |
| 07:56.12 | Wafficus | so in essence, I actually need "Mate" desktop anyway, NOT XFCE |
| 07:56.19 | Wafficus | or "Gnome" rather * |
| 08:00.26 | Wafficus | I'll install Mate, and see if that works |
| 08:06.59 | golinux | Always helps to do your homework rather than flailing about |
| 08:07.40 | golinux | is getting nothing done tonight . . . |
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| 10:42.26 | fling | Why is iceweasel replaced with firefox-esr instead of icecat? |
| 10:45.51 | Xenguy | Wouldn't that be a question for Debian, not Devuan? |
| 10:46.59 | fling | ok |
| 10:47.41 | Xenguy | I'm asking, not telling, FWIW |
| 10:51.51 | cronolio | firefox allows debian to have firefox icons |
| 11:02.55 | cronolio | https://lwn.net/Articles/676799/ |
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| 11:44.06 | jelly | Xenguy, it would, devuan seems to inherit firefox-esr from parent distro and that switch was I think made before devuan even existed |
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| 15:58.13 | FlibberTGibbet | hi, is there a guide anywhere for cross-grading from Debian 10 to Devuan? Have a shiny new VPS that I'd like to improve :) Can I go from Debian 10 to Beowulf? |
| 15:59.46 | FlibberTGibbet | ah, Buster -> Beowulf guide on devuan.org... |
| 16:01.59 | fsmithred | FlibberTGibbet, that might be missing a step (install sysvinit-core) |
| 16:03.43 | fsmithred | I tried this again recently and it still works: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=18390#p18390 |
| 16:03.53 | fsmithred | scroll up for more detailed notes |
| 16:04.10 | lts | Just migrated a few boxes with that guide on devuan.org. Didn't have to install sysvinit-core |
| 16:04.21 | lts | (Meaning, it installed without me doing it manually) |
| 16:05.23 | fsmithred | lts, thanks. There were a couple people who had trouble with it. Glad to hear it does work. |
| 16:05.40 | FlibberTGibbet | ah, that makes sense fsmithred -- not much point upgrading with out installing a proper init system.. |
| 16:05.55 | FlibberTGibbet | useful to know lts, thanks |
| 16:06.08 | fsmithred | might depend on what you have installed |
| 16:06.49 | FlibberTGibbet | debian 10 and nowt else as yet. also have to reconfigure locales as it's a french vps host and they've installed it à la francaise :) |
| 16:07.11 | fsmithred | better do that first |
| 16:07.13 | FlibberTGibbet | yup |
| 16:07.34 | FlibberTGibbet | can pick through the French well enough but might miss something really important :) |
| 16:07.36 | fsmithred | I boot into foreign language occasionally to test. It can be challenging. |
| 16:07.40 | FlibberTGibbet | yup |
| 16:11.10 | FlibberTGibbet | bloody slow. le paramétrage has been achevé for ages now and it still hasn't popped up with a console. >:( |
| 16:14.21 | fsmithred | ext3? |
| 16:15.53 | FlibberTGibbet | not sure |
| 16:16.01 | FlibberTGibbet | all managed for me so i'll have to see |
| 16:19.06 | fsmithred | if there's not desktop, it should be pretty smooth |
| 16:19.37 | fsmithred | why don't my fingers type the words that are in my head? |
| 16:20.37 | onefang | Coz those words have to go via your L-bows. |
| 16:23.07 | FlibberTGibbet | in at last! |
| 16:37.23 | luser978 | research result: bluetoothctl has only limited functionality on beowulf, won't detect usb bt dongles till replugged, more. All errors dbus2 related. bluetoothd must be run with --compat cli option to allow sdptool to be used. bluetoothd must be forked/frozen now, upstream devel wants to drop sdp completely. this must not happen. details later. |
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| 17:48.04 | sgage | To whom it may concern: the link to the Devuan Popularity contest at |
| 17:48.09 | sgage | https://www.devuan.org/os/announce/stable-jessie-announce-052517.html |
| 17:48.55 | sgage | goes to popcorn.devuan.org, not popcon as it ought to. |
| 17:50.28 | sgage | The above referenced site is not just about jessie, it covers lots of ground. |
| 17:50.43 | sgage | That is all. |
| 17:51.19 | golinux | Thanks for catching that. I'll repost to #devuan-www where Xenguy will see it. |
| 17:52.46 | fluffywolf | the link to popcorn should be on the systemd discussion threads. |
| 17:58.28 | sgage | fluffywolf, :-) |
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| 18:02.46 | Xenguy | Thanks sgage , now fixed in git. |
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| 18:09.03 | user | Hi. I made some noise earlyer about bluetoothctl on beowulf. Anyone interested? |
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| 19:52.45 | e3d3 | I've just upgraded the OS via synaptics, and now I get error-messages after installing & deinstalling stuff; one about grub-pc post-install script, and 2 other errors about linux-image-amd64 & linux-image-4.19.0-14-amd64. The first error can be because the working grub is on another partition/distro. |
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| 20:49.03 | Wafficus | Hey there, can anyone help me figure out how to grab the chimaera for 'GTK+3.20"? I need it alongside two themes, "Murrine" and "Pixmap" |
| 20:49.38 | Wafficus | I have "MATE" installed on my Devuan Beowulf desktop computer already, just needed to know which specific backport I needed for a situation like this |
| 20:49.54 | Wafficus | its for this particular Macintosh 90s style theme for 'MATE': https://b00merang.weeby.com/system-4.html |
| 21:01.37 | gnarface | Wafficus: syntax is: apt-get install [package name]=[full debian version string] |
| 21:01.50 | Wafficus | right, that I know |
| 21:01.52 | gnarface | Wafficus: or: apt-get install [package name]=[release codename] |
| 21:02.04 | Wafficus | but even when I tried to search for it, I'm kind of confused on the specific GTK+ package to get |
| 21:02.08 | gnarface | er, sorry that last one is supposed to be [package name]/[release codename] |
| 21:02.16 | gnarface | oh, you probably need a bunch of them |
| 21:02.35 | gnarface | gtk shows up in 44 package names here |
| 21:02.44 | Wafficus | well I need 3 primary ones |
| 21:02.53 | Wafficus | but due to the GTK+3.20 dependency |
| 21:02.55 | gnarface | do you know which 3? |
| 21:03.06 | Wafficus | it seems like I will have to use the bleeding edge package instead of stable Devuan Beowulf |
| 21:03.12 | Wafficus | aka a 'Chiamera' in this scenario |
| 21:03.14 | Wafficus | yes one sec |
| 21:03.24 | gnarface | chimera isn't bleeding-edge though |
| 21:03.29 | gnarface | ceres is the bleeding-edge one |
| 21:03.44 | gnarface | chimera is just the testing release in between beowulf and "bleeding-edge" |
| 21:03.47 | Wafficus | GTK+ 3.20 or higher |
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| 21:03.51 | Wafficus | Murrine (theme maybe?) |
| 21:03.56 | Wafficus | Pixmap (theme maybe) |
| 21:04.12 | Wafficus | i'm not sure what either of the last two are, since I accidentally installed the 'Pixmap' utility without knowing |
| 21:04.14 | gnarface | hmm |
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| 21:04.20 | gnarface | do you have the "murrine-themes" package? |
| 21:04.41 | gnarface | i'm on ceres right now and i can note two things |
| 21:04.45 | Wafficus | well I have Mate :/ that's about all I know man |
| 21:04.48 | gnarface | 1) murrine seems to rely on gtk2 not gtk3 |
| 21:04.52 | Wafficus | its my first time using any kind of DE to be honest |
| 21:05.06 | Wafficus | I am mostly an Openbox or AwesomeWM / now, an exwm (Emacs Window Manager) guy |
| 21:05.07 | gnarface | 2) gtk3 is only at gtk 3.0.5 in ceres... 3.2 might be so new you have to build it yourself |
| 21:05.26 | sgage | The packages in Chimaera you want are gtk-3-0, gtk-3-bin, and gtk-3-common |
| 21:05.28 | Wafficus | right, that part itself isn't too bad, just probably needs 'sudo make install' or something |
| 21:05.28 | gnarface | 3) given #1 and #2, i find some question as to whether you're installing the right stuff |
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| 21:05.46 | sgage | gives version 3.24 |
| 21:05.49 | Wafficus | it was listed as the dependencies for the theme itself on the guy's website |
| 21:05.57 | Wafficus | https://b00merang.weeby.com/system-4.html |
| 21:06.06 | gnarface | thanks sgage |
| 21:06.07 | Wafficus | *readme section rather in the download itself for the theme |
| 21:06.27 | gnarface | oh i see libgtk-3-* 3.24.24-1 packages here. my grep was sloppy, sorry |
| 21:07.05 | gnarface | murrine-themes do seem to depend on gtk2 engines here though |
| 21:07.55 | gnarface | so i'm not clear on whether installing gtk3 stuff is the right effort to support murrine-themes |
| 21:08.01 | sgage | the engines are gtk2-engines-murrine and gtk2-engines-pixmap |
| 21:08.27 | sgage | there is also a package called gtk2-engines |
| 21:08.47 | gnarface | Wafficus: lots of themes need extra libs called "engines" - basically extensions to theme features |
| 21:09.11 | gnarface | Wafficus: (you should be aware that historically these are also the ones that end to cause more memory leaks) |
| 21:09.18 | gnarface | *tend to cause |
| 21:09.44 | fsmithred | also, gtk3 apps might not look so good with a gtk2-only theme |
| 21:10.03 | sgage | If you don't have them already, libgtk2.0-0, libgtk2.0-bin, and libgtk2.0-common |
| 21:10.24 | sgage | These bring gtk2 up to version 2.24 |
| 21:11.55 | sgage | (I'm just sitting here in Chimaera with Synaptic open, so easy searching) |
| 21:12.22 | Wafficus | oofh |
| 21:12.24 | Wafficus | hmm didn't know this |
| 21:12.26 | Wafficus | but gotcha |
| 21:12.53 | Wafficus | well yeah I'm still kind of not knowing how to approach this |
| 21:13.12 | Wafficus | basically the theme itself provides a "gtk-3.0" and "gtk-2.0" variant for the themes |
| 21:13.54 | Wafficus | but in terms of how to actually use them is kind of beyond me since when I tried to actually use it in Mate, it only does the sides of the window accordingly, so clearly i need "GTK+3.20" onward or something |
| 21:13.55 | sgage | I wish I could help more, but I've never really fiddled around with themes |
| 21:14.49 | sgage | Hopefully you can backport the packages I listed. Or upgrade to Chimaera :-) |
| 21:15.06 | gnarface | Wafficus: what i think i hear is you're trying to actually manually install a gtk3 version of a theme that still only exists as its gtk2 version in unstable. if that's the case you should know that stuff that is still too new for unstable even usually isn't there already because it is literally broken still. |
| 21:15.55 | Wafficus | yeah I don't mind to upgrade to whatever I need to get it done |
| 21:16.00 | Wafficus | I just need some help to figure it out |
| 21:16.12 | Wafficus | I'm ok with using a testing branch to be totally honest, doesn't bother me |
| 21:16.17 | gnarface | Wafficus: i applaud your desire to custom-theme your desktop though. it'll teach you a lot, and its good for you. but this might actually be beyond my skills to fix. |
| 21:16.22 | Wafficus | I'm literally using Gentoo on this laptop as we speak |
| 21:16.54 | user | fsmithred: did you see my comments earlyer on broken bluetoothctl and bluetoothd on beowulf? |
| 21:16.57 | gnarface | somewhat ironically, this is the type of thing Gentoo tends to do better |
| 21:17.03 | user | Wafficus: off topic! :) |
| 21:17.30 | Wafficus | from the feel of the README from that thing though, its basically a case where I think its basically saying you need to have either GNOME or Mate. So I have Mate, just need some help in figuring out what else is needed |
| 21:17.37 | user | Jokes aside, I understand Ceres is not yet there? Not all packages in it? |
| 21:18.07 | gnarface | user: i'm using it. not sure what you mean. |
| 21:18.16 | user | gnarface: using what? |
| 21:18.18 | sgage | Ceres is simply Debian unstable. I use it a lot, and it's fine. |
| 21:18.27 | gnarface | user: ceres == sid. |
| 21:18.49 | sgage | Chimaera has been rock solid, and has been my main system for weeks. |
| 21:19.00 | user | Then maybe I am mistaken? What is testing now? Stable is Beo no? |
| 21:19.05 | user | I'm on Beo |
| 21:19.19 | gnarface | user: chimera is testing. chimera/ceres... easy source of confusion |
| 21:19.27 | user | Yes. It got me. |
| 21:19.28 | sgage | Beo is stable, Chimaera is testing, Ceres is unstable (sid) |
| 21:19.38 | gnarface | user: lots of people are using chimera already but i haven't touched it |
| 21:19.52 | user | Ok |
| 21:20.10 | Wafficus | so would anyone actually know where I could get GTK+3.20, "Pixmap" and "Murrine", and what version of Devuan I have to upgrade to? |
| 21:20.16 | sgage | I back up my systems all the time, so it doesn't really matter if it goes kerblooey. |
| 21:20.20 | user | I will switch in the following weeks if it is okay, assuming I get some packages upgraded which I need fresher. |
| 21:20.35 | gnarface | in most cases i suspect you can still get away with using the beowulf-backports kernel and nvidia drivers for whatever you were going to do with chimera |
| 21:20.40 | sgage | But it has been solid as a rock. |
| 21:21.23 | gnarface | Wafficus: did you try just taking the theme from gentoo and copying it into /usr/share/themes/ |
| 21:21.23 | gnarface | ? |
| 21:21.30 | Wafficus | I don't have it on Gentoo honeslty |
| 21:21.32 | fsmithred | user, I saw the comment about bluetoothctl, what would you like me to do about it? And what is sdp? |
| 21:21.39 | Wafficus | I only have Emacs Window Manager on this box |
| 21:21.49 | Wafficus | I don't want to really install Mate or a DE on this box :/ |
| 21:21.55 | gnarface | Wafficus: oh, if it's already in gentoo but not devuan ceres, you might be able to examine the differences to find out why and maybe fix it |
| 21:22.18 | Wafficus | I don't even know if its in Gentoo :/, I didn't look. Just wanted to see how I could do this in purely Devuan |
| 21:22.33 | user | fsmithred: sdp is the service directory protocol in bluetooth, used to be sdpd, now part of bluetoothd and "deprecated" in that the oem developer deprecated it in favor of dbus2 nightmare apis |
| 21:22.44 | Wafficus | again, I kinda like to keep this box for Emacs usage only, sounds insane, but I'd rather just have help with Devuan only |
| 21:23.02 | gnarface | Wafficus: in pure devuan you would upgrade to chimera i guess, then get the source package for the theme, and upgrade it with the upstream tarball using debhelper tools |
| 21:23.23 | gnarface | Wafficus: (but were it to come to that i honestly would recommend just trying the gtk2 version first... it would be a lot less trouble...) |
| 21:23.27 | user | fsmithred: in a nutshell: add -C to bluetoothd cli options in /etc/init.d/bluetooth to be able to use ANY cli tools for bt management. In addition to that, bluetoothctl is broken with or without -C |
| 21:23.48 | Wafficus | ok, so if I were to try the GTK2 version, how do I do that instead? |
| 21:23.51 | user | fsmithred: man bluetoothd at -C will tell you what the developer thinks of it. |
| 21:24.16 | gnarface | Wafficus: as far as i can tell, the gtk2 version is already in the repo and you'd just install the "murrine-themes" package. it should be smart enough to pull in the necessary engines and libs |
| 21:24.32 | user | fsmithred: he plans to remove that option altogether in the future. |
| 21:24.48 | gnarface | Wafficus: if you were gonna upgrade the package from source to the gtk3 version, this would still be a good first step anyway |
| 21:24.49 | user | "deprecation" is in "favor" of systemd friendly dbus2 nightmares |
| 21:25.10 | fsmithred | does it require systemd? |
| 21:25.32 | golinux | gbarface he needs the murrine ENGINE(S) not theme |
| 21:25.37 | Wafficus | "gtk2 version is already in the repo", not sure what you mean by this |
| 21:25.55 | golinux | gnarface: ^^^ |
| 21:26.03 | user | not directly, but all the cli tools "talk" to bluetoothd via dbus2 after sdp is "retired" and that means that in the future the cli tools may be retired and bluetooth will become systemdbluetoothd |
| 21:26.08 | gnarface | golinux: i see both in ceres, anyway |
| 21:26.35 | golinux | Good. |
| 21:26.50 | gnarface | Wafficus: to be clear: i see it in ceres - if it's not already in chimera too, which would be weird for a gtk2 thing, it would probably be possible to backport from ceres to chimera |
| 21:27.16 | user | fsmithred: for now, adding -C and putting some warning everywhere relevant (where? bt-tools? bluez-tools?) that sdptool won't work soon is a good start |
| 21:27.35 | user | normally with sdptool and rfcomm one can script most important things related to bt |
| 21:27.40 | fsmithred | well, someone has to step up to fork the package first |
| 21:27.52 | gnarface | Wafficus: do you have a chimera install? "apt-cache search murrine" |
| 21:27.53 | fsmithred | and we try to avoid that as much as possible |
| 21:27.54 | user | just freezing it as is for now would do |
| 21:28.11 | golinux | gnarface: These are the requirements as per the README |
| 21:28.22 | user | archive sources from current version of bluetoothd and likely bluez and bluez-tools as well as bluez-* |
| 21:28.26 | gnarface | Wafficus: i get these: gtk2-engines-murrine gtk2-engines-nodoka murrine-themes shiki-colors |
| 21:28.29 | golinux | ### Requirements |
| 21:28.29 | golinux | - GTK+ 3.20 or above |
| 21:28.29 | golinux | Murrine and Pixmap theme engines |
| 21:28.30 | user | it's no big deal in size. |
| 21:28.50 | gnarface | golinux: the readme in the upstream source of it, or in the version actually in chimera currently?? |
| 21:29.02 | user | I understand the avoidance but I expect sudden impossiblity to use bt soon if not. |
| 21:29.07 | golinux | The readme in the theme he wants to get working |
| 21:29.14 | gnarface | golinux: because in ceres it's currently depending on gtk2-engines-murrine 0.98.2-3 |
| 21:29.43 | golinux | He got it from gnomelook.org. It is a non standard user submitted theme |
| 21:29.56 | gnarface | golinux: i'm not saying that's what it's supposed to be doing, i'm just saying that is what the repo version is doing now |
| 21:30.10 | user | fsmithred: I've been through this today and yesterday, see again at --compat (aka -C) https://github.com/sraodev/IoT-Bluetooth-Service |
| 21:30.23 | golinux | And the the list of requirements isn't very clear |
| 21:30.41 | sgage | Incidentally, with the imminent release of gtk4, gtk2 is no longer supported. |
| 21:32.45 | sgage | golinux, speaking of themes, I love the Chimaera colors. |
| 21:33.39 | fsmithred | user, I guess when they drop the init script altogether it can be added to the orphaned init scripts package with the correct option if it still works |
| 21:34.09 | user | Somewhere there is a clear warning that the --compat will be dropped SOON, by the oem package author. |
| 21:34.27 | Wafficus | so I need to get "gtk2-engines-murrine 0.98.2-3" then? |
| 21:35.02 | fsmithred | to repeat: someone will have to step up to fork it and maintain it. |
| 21:36.26 | user | fsmithred: I don't even claim to understand all the parts of it. I did notice how hard it is to get it going though and that others had trouble too. |
| 21:36.53 | Wafficus | apparently, I already have 'gtk2-engines-murrine'. Though I don't know where to get the "Pixmap" requirement to be honest |
| 21:36.54 | user | fsmithred: so, for now, something like version pinning, as a theoretical option, might work? Just thinkin loud here. |
| 21:37.08 | fsmithred | yeah, you can pin it to a version that works |
| 21:37.11 | user | fsmithred: I mean, in case it "evolves" and loses the sdp capability |
| 21:37.33 | fsmithred | that will probably continue to work for the current release and possibly for the next one |
| 21:37.33 | user | and I'll try to keep the sources in buildable form around just in case. |
| 21:37.47 | fsmithred | I did that with util-linux in jessie because of systemd changes |
| 21:38.20 | user | sdpd functionality is quite bushy code size wise and I have no idea how to go about debugging it if it does not work. |
| 21:38.25 | fsmithred | clone the debian git repo. If we fork packages, we should keep the full commit history. |
| 21:38.35 | user | the dbus2 "new" control interface is even worse imo |
| 21:39.14 | user | I am not set up for git tricks. I work on end user / IoT and such things now. I'll get zip or tar.gz snapshots. |
| 21:39.27 | user | the dbus2 "new" control interface is even worse imo <- for bluetoothd |
| 21:41.11 | fsmithred | I know nothing about it |
| 21:41.25 | fsmithred | and only slightly more about bluetooth |
| 21:41.58 | user | It's a horrible thing where you have 10s of functions and 100s of error messages a la windows "GPF" |
| 21:42.30 | user | I see people use py for it and they struggle. Lots of messages online about problems with it. |
| 21:42.41 | user | The old cli tools are clunky but do the job. |
| 21:42.42 | golinux | sgage: Happy to hear you like the new theme. :) |
| 21:43.33 | sgage | I got the artwork from the link you posted the other day, |
| 21:43.52 | sgage | and it's already my lightdm and grub theme background :-) |
| 21:47.25 | golinux | The theme is mostly done too. Just wresting with the openbox part of it. |
| 21:48.03 | user | fsmithred: bt-tools package is tighlty connected to the matter and also a github project. It has no problems except it does not work without the --compat on bluetoothd. bluetoothd is the narrow bottleneck here. |
| 21:48.15 | golinux | Icons too. |
| 21:48.32 | user | bluetoothctl is an all in one cli menu tool which is also broken due to the "new" dbus2 way to talk to bluetoothd |
| 21:48.44 | user | it's errors are dbus2 errors. |
| 21:48.51 | sgage | golinux, great! I also so the link you posted to the inspiration for the chimaera colors :-) |
| 21:49.23 | golinux | Magnificent beast the Deep Sea Chimaera! |
| 21:51.35 | sgage | Deepsea would be a great name for a theme. Oh, wait. |
| 21:53.33 | sgage | Gotta run - time for evening barn chores... |
| 21:53.42 | *** part/#devuan sgage (~sgage@h69-131-6-108.cntcnh.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 21:53.47 | user | fsmithred: In general, I see a lot of breakage introduced by BlueZ 5, including dropping AlSA support for headsets, there is a foreign plugin for that now |
| 21:54.39 | fsmithred | maybe post about it on the mailing list and someone will take interest |
| 21:54.46 | fsmithred | and/or forum |
| 21:57.10 | Wafficus | so there's no hope for using GTK 2 in my scenario? Still need some help on this, I was told to ask during the daytime since hte nighttime dude said he was busy |
| 22:02.29 | luser978 | I think I'm not on the ml. |
| 22:03.08 | luser978 | will back up and see what exactly needs version pinning. |
| 22:03.15 | luser978 | n8 |
| 22:03.20 | luser978 | zz |
| 22:15.16 | *** join/#devuan ac_laptop (~ac_laptop@186.2.247.129) |
| 22:23.32 | golinux | Wafficus: there are both gtk2 and gtk3 based applications. You will need to have both functioning |
| 22:25.59 | golinux | You will have to find the precise combination of required packages to get that theme working. Maybe you should engage the developer who created the theme for more specific package versions etc. |
| 22:26.30 | Wafficus | but what are the 'both gtk2 and gtk3 based applications' |
| 22:26.34 | Wafficus | you're meaning the dependencies right? |
| 22:26.48 | Wafficus | I just need some help figuring out how to bump it up to the right chiamera, as I have zero clue on how to do this honestly |
| 22:27.41 | golinux | Not what the applications in your computer rely on. It is a mix. Some require gtk2 some require gtk3 |
| 22:28.08 | golinux | Not > No |
| 22:29.24 | golinux | This is not really a Devuan problem so maybe we should take it to OT. Or as I suggested to to whoever created the theme. |
| 22:30.18 | golinux | And please . . . it is chimaera |
| 22:32.00 | *** join/#devuan helios21 (~quassel@lichtvoll.de) |
| 22:39.23 | *** join/#devuan Wafficus (~Wafficus@70.126.240.148) |
| 23:23.26 | *** join/#devuan qaluH (~aspirit@p200300e6174da100910084876e944afe.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:39.18 | *** join/#devuan Wafficus (~Wafficus@70.126.240.148) |
| 23:47.53 | *** part/#devuan AnimaInvicta (~AnimaInvi@ber27-1-78-230-215-86.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:49.01 | *** join/#devuan Guest54 (442a443f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.42.68.63) |
| 23:50.57 | Guest54 | hello, i've been running ceres and during an update, wicd was uninstalled. i'm trying to manually set up my connection and looking at the archwiki for help. Upon checking if the kernel module in use by my ethernet cable was loaded, it came up in the dmesg but it didn't say "eth0 link is up" |
| 23:52.25 | Guest54 | is this an issue? do i have to load the module? |
| 23:55.14 | gnarface | Guest54: try to just install wicd again. it is not unexpected for things to be randomly uninstalled from ceres during an update (it's a good idea to pay attention to what gets uninstalled so you know when not to update) |
| 23:55.30 | gnarface | Guest54: wicd is not required for networking |
| 23:55.45 | gnarface | Guest54: (you may have a conflicting program or config installed instead) |
| 23:57.04 | numzob | is a little aprehensive at "it is not unexpected for things to be randomly uninstalled from ceres during an update" |
| 23:57.34 | numzob | wait, ceres is sid? never mind: i retract my statement |
| 23:58.53 | gnarface | it is possible it was recently removed completely, either permanently or temporarily, but it was there as of the last time i updated |
| 23:58.58 | gnarface | a couple days ago i think... |
| 23:59.10 | gnarface | well, it was there in the listing anyway |
| 23:59.18 | gnarface | i can't claim i tried to see if it was working |
| 23:59.19 | Guest54 | i'm having trouble connecting to the internet |
| 23:59.38 | Guest54 | i can't resolve deb.devuan.org |