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| 21:14.07 | johnny222 | Just wondering how would I organize my sources.list to upgrade from Beowulf to Chimaera |
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| 21:21.12 | jonadab | First, use a Beowulf sources.list and do apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade to ensure you are on the current latest Beowulf. |
| 21:22.13 | jonadab | Then change beowulf to chimaera, and the YOLO approach at this point is apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade; be advised that it is not a good idea to do this blind on a production system. |
| 21:22.37 | jonadab | Upgrading in this fashion works about 80% of the time in my experience. |
| 21:22.58 | jonadab | That's without-a-hitch works. |
| 21:23.01 | johnny222 | For everything even the deb src ones |
| 21:23.14 | johnny222 | Or do I put "testing" in place of beowulf |
| 21:23.17 | jonadab | Yes, just replace all instances of "beowulf" with "chimaera". |
| 21:23.25 | johnny222 | Will do |
| 21:23.28 | jonadab | You can also put testing yes. |
| 21:23.44 | johnny222 | It works the same though right |
| 21:23.48 | jonadab | The semantic difference is that when chimaera becomes stable, having "chimaera" will leave you on chimaera at that point. |
| 21:24.06 | jonadab | Whereas, when chimaera becomes stable there'll be a new testing, and having "testing" will move you to it. |
| 21:24.38 | jonadab | Right now, it'll be the same. When chimaera goes stable, then it matters. |
| 21:24.54 | johnny222 | Do I leave the links untouched or do I change it from /merged to /devuan |
| 21:25.15 | johnny222 | I just saw a difference looking at the devuan website |
| 21:25.15 | jonadab | Not 100% sure on that; I would probably leave it unchanged. |
| 21:25.16 | fsmithred | not a good idea to use "testing" in sources.list |
| 21:25.41 | fsmithred | use codenames. When bullseye goes stable and chimaera is still testing, you will want to be using codenames. |
| 21:25.53 | johnny222 | Alright |
| 21:25.54 | jonadab | True for most people. |
| 21:25.56 | fsmithred | use merged |
| 21:26.11 | fsmithred | if you use /devuan you will only have access to around 200 packages |
| 21:26.21 | jonadab | There are people who just want certain systems to always be on testing. But if that's what you want, you probably *know* that's what you want. |
| 21:26.37 | johnny222 | And also anything I have to do with keyrings after the dist upgrade |
| 21:27.19 | fsmithred | also comment out chimaera-security and chimaera-updates |
| 21:27.22 | jonadab | For most releases, the new keyring packages should be installed along with everything else. When there are *new* relevant keyring packages (which has happened in some past Debian releases), then you have to install them. |
| 21:27.22 | fsmithred | they don't exist yet |
| 21:27.42 | fsmithred | newest keyring is 2017 I think |
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| 21:28.11 | fsmithred | you should have it unless you're on an old jessie that never got upgraded |
| 21:28.20 | jonadab | Right, they should be upgraded when the new versions come out, in most cases; but occasionally an entirely new keyring package is added for one reason or another. |
| 21:28.41 | fsmithred | I think we did that once |
| 21:28.45 | jonadab | e.g., the Devuan keyring when making the transition to Devuan. |
| 21:28.58 | jonadab | I think that's the most recent one I remember. |
| 21:29.19 | johnny222 | Wait should I keep Beowulf-security commented in |
| 21:29.39 | fsmithred | after you change beowulf to chimaera in sources.list |
| 21:29.46 | fsmithred | you will only need one line |
| 21:30.03 | fsmithred | and it will be that way until chimaera is released as stable |
| 21:30.14 | fsmithred | then you can uncomment the -security and -update lines |
| 21:30.21 | jonadab | Ah. |
| 21:30.34 | jonadab | I'd forgotten that wrinkle; it's been a while since I ran a pre-release version. |
| 21:31.36 | johnny222 | So basically update the regular deb ones with chimaera, put chimaera in place of the deb-src ones but # comment them out |
| 21:31.38 | fsmithred | there's another wrinkle if you're starting with a fresh beowulf install |
| 21:31.44 | jonadab | (For a while I ran old-oldstable, until I entirely gave up on the last vestiges of Gnome that I was still using, apart from Gimp.) |
| 21:32.11 | fsmithred | when you run apt update, you have to tell it "yes" when it complains about the suite moving from testing to stable |
| 21:32.33 | fsmithred | because we made the release isos before the repo was changed to account for the new release |
| 21:32.35 | fsmithred | oops. |
| 21:32.41 | johnny222 | Was I correct in my last message? |
| 21:32.56 | johnny222 | Just double checking |
| 21:33.08 | fsmithred | if you do apt-get update, you don't get to answer "yes" and it's confusing. |
| 21:33.22 | fsmithred | I use sed to replace every instance of beowulf with chimaera |
| 21:33.23 | johnny222 | By update I just meant change the text in sources |
| 21:33.30 | fsmithred | and then comment out -update and -security |
| 21:33.49 | johnny222 | I have -updates |
| 21:33.52 | jonadab | uses M-x replace-string |
| 21:33.55 | fsmithred | I usually comment out the deb-src lines too. Most people aren't going to pull sources and build packages |
| 21:34.13 | fsmithred | M-x? Is that midnight-commander? |
| 21:34.28 | jonadab | M-x means you hold down the meta key and press X. In Emacs. |
| 21:34.33 | fsmithred | oh |
| 21:34.41 | johnny222 | Da meta key |
| 21:34.48 | johnny222 | I don't have one |
| 21:34.55 | fsmithred | lol. The only true editor is nano. |
| 21:35.01 | jonadab | On most PC keyboards, alt is meta. |
| 21:35.01 | johnny222 | Yess |
| 21:35.22 | johnny222 | Or u can map caps to ESC/meta |
| 21:38.33 | fsmithred | johnny222, what desktop are you running? |
| 21:40.03 | johnny222 | Like de right now |
| 21:40.11 | johnny222 | Xfce4 |
| 21:40.15 | fsmithred | ok |
| 21:40.31 | fsmithred | not sure how that goes if you installed the desktop from the installer. |
| 21:40.51 | johnny222 | I used netinstall |
| 21:41.36 | fsmithred | yeah, and at the tasksel window, was devuan-desktop and xfce4 both checked, or did you install a base system and add stuff after first reboot? |
| 21:41.39 | fsmithred | stuff=desktop |
| 21:42.26 | johnny222 | I did a base system on openrc |
| 21:43.07 | jonadab | generally installs as little as possible prior to having a bootable running system. |
| 21:43.32 | jonadab | I want to get to that point as quickly as possible, so I can then run my install-all-the-things script. |
| 21:43.44 | jonadab | IN the background, in a screen session, via ssh. |
| 21:43.45 | johnny222 | Actually no I did leave the default xfce de |
| 21:44.22 | johnny222 | But afterwards I installed DWM some place but didn't really enjoy it |
| 21:44.44 | fsmithred | I think you'll be ok. Looks like task-xfce-desktop has been devuanized in chimaera/ceres |
| 21:44.52 | johnny222 | Nice |
| 21:45.19 | fsmithred | looks like the only difference in dependencies has to do with libreoffice |
| 21:45.55 | fsmithred | and it's a Recommends, so you could even exclude it if necessary. |
| 21:46.32 | fsmithred | this is scary. beowulf has libreoffice-gtk2 and chimaera has libreoffice-gtk3. |
| 21:47.09 | johnny222 | Is it a bad idea to use debian sources on devuan |
| 21:47.12 | fsmithred | I haven't tried the new one yet, but based on other gtk3 escapades, I'd say it has the chance of being a real nightmare. |
| 21:47.15 | fsmithred | yes, bad idea |
| 21:47.35 | fsmithred | the way our repo works is that we merge debian repo with ours |
| 21:47.47 | fsmithred | and we filter the packages that require systemd |
| 21:47.56 | fsmithred | and replace them with our devuanized versions |
| 21:48.10 | fsmithred | if you use debian sources, you might bypass the filter |
| 21:48.59 | fsmithred | if you need third-party software, it's safer to download the debs rather than add their repo. |
| 21:53.20 | johnny222 | Is there devuan nonfree |
| 21:53.28 | johnny222 | I'm guessing yes |
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| 21:56.55 | johnny222 | How's OpenOffice compared to gtk3 libreoffice |
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| 22:14.07 | jonadab | is still using OpenOffice simply due to never seeing a reason to switch. |
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| 22:20.58 | sadsnork | jonadab: Do you know if the current version of OpenOffice will work without JRE? |
| 22:21.28 | jonadab | OpenOffice hasn't required Java for years. |
| 22:21.32 | sadsnork | Or if it is possible to install only writer and calc? |
| 22:21.39 | jonadab | That I don't know. |
| 22:21.53 | johnny222 | switching from stable to testing, is it just apt upgrade or apt dist-upgrade like Debian |
| 22:22.11 | jonadab | That stuff works the same in Devuan as in Debian. |
| 22:22.11 | sadsnork | Strange, it is listed on their system requirements page: https://www.openoffice.org/dev_docs/source/sys_reqs_aoo41.html |
| 22:22.27 | jonadab | sadsnork: I think there's an obscure feature somewhere or another that doesn't work without it. |
| 22:22.42 | jonadab | But you don't actually need it. |
| 22:23.11 | sadsnork | Based on the description it *may* be accessibility only. |
| 22:23.27 | sadsnork | Thanks for letting me know it works without it though. :-) |
| 22:24.36 | sadsnork | Oh, this explains a little better: http://www.openoffice.org/download/common/java.html |
| 22:24.50 | sadsnork | Looks like it is Base and "special functionality" for other components. |
| 22:25.04 | gnarface | well, the libreoffice components in the repos currently are packaged separately |
| 22:25.19 | gnarface | i think the openoffice ones were too but i can't recall for sure |
| 22:25.49 | gnarface | so i'm pretty sure you can just install writer and calc |
| 22:28.28 | sadsnork | Thank gnarface, I think the ".deb" download is a .tar.gz with multiple .debs inside it for the components. |
| 22:28.36 | sadsnork | I'm downloading it now. :-) |
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| 22:43.47 | Guest10711 | Hello, I need help, installing Devuan 64 on amd laptop and cant startx |
| 22:44.21 | Guest10711 | terminated error 11 |
| 22:44.45 | Guest10711 | managed to Vim the sources.list and run all updates |
| 22:46.35 | gnarface | Guest10711: find the xorg log |
| 22:46.48 | gnarface | Guest10711: it's usually in /usr/log/ or ~/.local/share/xorg/ |
| 22:54.52 | Guest10711 | Ok, I should add that I have to change the tty to get to this point, it actyally hangs during Ipv6 addcong (netdev_change) eth0 |
| 22:55.23 | Guest10711 | it only sgows that much in recovery mode |
| 22:55.41 | Guest10711 | live usb stuck at same point |
| 22:56.07 | gnarface | interesting |
| 22:57.45 | Guest10711 | This laptop is lowend amd-apu radeon r3 |
| 22:58.00 | Guest10711 | im committed to free only sources |
| 22:58.07 | gnarface | we need to see the contents of that xorg log |
| 22:58.28 | Guest10711 | can u remind me live root pass?? |
| 22:58.35 | gnarface | i think it's toor |
| 22:59.50 | Guest10711 | oh right! |
| 23:01.01 | Guest10711 | ok this scary |
| 23:01.14 | gnarface | you only care about the lines containing "(EE)" |
| 23:01.49 | Guest10711 | systemd-logind: took control of session |
| 23:02.07 | gnarface | ?? |
| 23:02.14 | gnarface | paste it up to paste.debian.net and give me the link |
| 23:02.31 | gnarface | you said this is the devuan live image? |
| 23:02.42 | Guest10711 | yes both |
| 23:03.11 | Guest10711 | I can paste a screenshot |
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| 23:03.30 | Guest10711 | im on UbuntuTouch phone atm |
| 23:03.56 | gnarface | oh, you can't get network up on it either? |
| 23:04.10 | gnarface | i wonder if you just need a newer kernel |
| 23:04.15 | Guest10711 | network is up luckily, but no gui |
| 23:04.15 | gnarface | what kernel is that in that live image? |
| 23:04.18 | gnarface | oh |
| 23:04.28 | gnarface | well if the network is up you can use pastebinit |
| 23:04.41 | gnarface | you don't need a mouse for that |
| 23:04.53 | gnarface | just install pastebinit |
| 23:05.09 | Guest10711 | EE open /dev/dri/card0 |
| 23:05.29 | Guest10711 | EE Unable to find framebuffer |
| 23:05.44 | gnarface | what does "uname -a" output? |
| 23:06.18 | Guest10711 | EE screen 0 deleted cause no config |
| 23:06.53 | Guest10711 | EE No framebuffer mode, please specify busIDs |
| 23:08.03 | Guest10711 | Linux Devuan 4.19.0-9-amd64 |
| 23:08.18 | gnarface | yea that's too old |
| 23:08.20 | Guest10711 | Debian 4.19.118-2 |
| 23:08.46 | gnarface | you either need to get the backports kernel on there or the unstable kernel |
| 23:08.48 | Guest10711 | the install uso was gotten today let me jump off li e |
| 23:11.29 | Guest10711 | ok this Iso was downloaded today, non-live is |
| 23:11.56 | Guest10711 | Debian 4.19.118-2+deb10u1 |
| 23:12.19 | gnarface | non-live? so you can install the backports kernel? |
| 23:12.19 | Guest10711 | i went to ftp off devuan.org for iso |
| 23:12.48 | Guest10711 | Im off live in non booting system |
| 23:13.10 | gnarface | ? |
| 23:14.08 | gnarface | i'm confused about what you're saying |
| 23:15.20 | gnarface | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-backports main contrib non-free |
| 23:15.26 | gnarface | add this to your /etc/apt/sources.list ^^ |
| 23:16.05 | gnarface | then run this: apt-get update && apt-get -t beowulf-backports install linux-image-amd64 linux-headers-amd64 firmware-amd-graphics |
| 23:16.11 | Guest10711 | ok, does it have to be non free |
| 23:16.16 | gnarface | oh, right |
| 23:16.26 | gnarface | it might not have to be, i don't know |
| 23:16.38 | gnarface | you can omit contrib and non-free |
| 23:16.48 | gnarface | then also omit firmware-amd-graphics |
| 23:16.54 | Guest10711 | Im just saying the issue is the same for ISO install and also Live |
| 23:17.15 | gnarface | ok i understand, my advice stays the same |
| 23:17.21 | gnarface | try the beowulf-backports kernel |
| 23:17.30 | gnarface | linux-image-amd64 |
| 23:17.42 | gnarface | actually it might not be that easy |
| 23:18.06 | gnarface | you could try this first to see what kernels are available: apt-get -t beowulf-backports search ^linux-image- |
| 23:20.29 | gnarface | (you still have to run "apt-get update" first either way) |
| 23:21.57 | Guest10711 | installing |
| 23:22.29 | Guest10711 | firmware-amd-graphics is non free Im guessing |
| 23:22.44 | johnny222 | Yes |
| 23:22.45 | gnarface | yea, |
| 23:23.00 | gnarface | i don't know for sure you'll need it, but it's possible you will have reduced functionality without it |
| 23:23.33 | gnarface | if it's like regular amd video cards, 2d, unaccelerated graphics will still work |
| 23:23.34 | Guest10711 | ok, linux-header-amd64 backports done |
| 23:23.57 | gnarface | make sure it's actually the backports one it's pointing to |
| 23:24.03 | Guest10711 | yea i know usb3 surveillance runs through gpu lol |
| 23:24.04 | gnarface | it's like 5.10 or something like that |
| 23:24.15 | gnarface | 5.9 or 5.10 at least |
| 23:25.55 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@devuan/community/Xenguy) |
| 23:26.09 | Guest10711 | installing linux-image |
| 23:29.25 | gnarface | also, make sure your user is in the "video" group |
| 23:29.42 | gnarface | though, if it comes down to that, the errors should change in the xorg log accordingly |
| 23:30.22 | Guest10711 | no change in errors :( |
| 23:30.35 | Guest10711 | after reboot and startx |
| 23:31.19 | Guest10711 | so no coice but non free? |
| 23:31.57 | Guest10711 | is there a way to o ly pull amd-firmware and nothing else for future apt-get upgrades? |
| 23:34.19 | Guest10711 | apt-cache search has image-5.9 |
| 23:34.38 | Guest10711 | bpo |
| 23:35.29 | Guest10711 | theres alot of 4.19nvm im on bpo |
| 23:37.34 | gnarface | are you sure you are actually on the new kernel? was there any change to the output of "uname -a" ? |
| 23:37.41 | Guest10711 | no 5.10 for me :( |
| 23:37.59 | Guest10711 | uname is 5.9 bpo |
| 23:38.24 | gnarface | apt-get install firmware-amd-graphics |
| 23:38.43 | gnarface | er, sorry, i mean: apt-get -t beowulf-backports install firmware-amd-graphics |
| 23:38.55 | gnarface | then remove that backports line from your sources.list (or comment it out) |
| 23:39.23 | gnarface | then re-run "apt-get update" and future upgrades will not include backports even by accident |
| 23:39.53 | *** join/#devuan GNUmoon2 (~GNUmoon@gateway/tor-sasl/gnumoon) |
| 23:39.57 | Guest10711 | i need to non-free a src |
| 23:41.03 | gnarface | maybe, i'm not sure |
| 23:41.33 | gnarface | you don't want to install *everything* from backports |
| 23:41.46 | gnarface | i think you only want firmware-amd-graphics and the kernel and headers |
| 23:41.53 | gnarface | you might also need mesa |
| 23:41.56 | gnarface | from there |
| 23:42.01 | gnarface | if it's there |
| 23:42.14 | Guest10711 | which one to non-free? |
| 23:42.43 | gnarface | i'm not sure what you're asking |
| 23:43.03 | gnarface | there's no non-free kernel, just firmware-amd-graphics is in non-free |
| 23:43.59 | Guest10711 | beowulf, security, updates, or just backports, or all? |
| 23:44.24 | gnarface | just backports |
| 23:44.43 | gnarface | you should literally only need that one package from non-free |
| 23:44.57 | Guest10711 | how do I add words in vim lol |
| 23:45.07 | Guest10711 | i only learned cc or r |
| 23:45.42 | gnarface | just use nano instead |
| 23:45.48 | gnarface | the instructions are printed at the bottom |
| 23:46.37 | gnarface | it's i for insert, i think though |
| 23:49.49 | Guest10711 | firmware-amd-graphics no candidate, another package |
| 23:50.22 | gnarface | in beowulf backports? |
| 23:50.25 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 23:50.31 | rrq | firmware-amd-graphics is in beowulf/non-free |
| 23:50.46 | gnarface | is there just not one in backports? |
| 23:50.58 | Guest10711 | oops hang on |
| 23:51.08 | Guest10711 | i non freed security |
| 23:53.21 | Guest10711 | beowulf main non-free |
| 23:53.27 | Guest10711 | and |
| 23:53.56 | Guest10711 | beowulf-backports main non-free |
| 23:58.37 | Guest10711 | it has to say contrib |
| 23:59.35 | *** part/#devuan romo (~romo@unaffiliated/romo) |