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| 01:24.11 | SwanDive | hey guys |
| 01:25.43 | SwanDive | I had a general question about the project, I was curious why systemd poses a security risk to Debian or even just a risk of getting Debian homogenized into another GNOME clone? |
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| 01:27.22 | asdflkj | SwanDive: Itâs a massive project with millions of lines of code that have never been thouroughly audited |
| 01:27.53 | SwanDive | @asdflkj right, so it posses a massive security risk |
| 01:27.59 | asdflkj | once it had a bug that let you log in as root just by tapping backspace ~20 time |
| 01:28.08 | SwanDive | you're kidding me |
| 01:28.58 | asdflkj | nvm, that was grub |
| 01:29.02 | asdflkj | https://webhostinggeeks.com/howto/linux-machines-can-be-hacked-by-pressing-backspace-28-times/ |
| 01:29.05 | asdflkj | sorry |
| 01:29.17 | SwanDive | no worries |
| 01:29.21 | SwanDive | look i appreciate your answer |
| 01:29.31 | SwanDive | in search of a secure distro and came across devuan |
| 01:29.46 | golinux | I used to enjoy reading the "wontfix" bugs when they were still very publicly available. Hundreds of them |
| 01:30.18 | SwanDive | Correct me if i'm wrong here, but it sounds like the basic ethics of linux were abandoned with Debian. It's sad. |
| 01:31.24 | golinux | https://nosystemd.org/ |
| 01:31.47 | SwanDive | I was curious if Devuan has a mobile OS variant? Similiar to Lineage OS 17.1? I want to degoogle my phone |
| 01:31.52 | asdflkj | to be fair, IIRC they didnât adopt it until other major distros had and had made it pretty standard |
| 01:31.58 | asdflkj | that would be mobian |
| 01:32.05 | SwanDive | ah Mobian thanks! |
| 01:32.24 | golinux | And this prophecy from 2014 http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html |
| 01:32.49 | SwanDive | I have a multi boot image i downloaded onto my sd card, ran out of space applying updates to KDE neon so have to go out today and buy a bigger card. Really wanna get my pine phone up and running. |
| 01:33.42 | golinux | We could see it coming even so many years ago . . . but all that is a bit off topic which is Devuan support issues here. |
| 01:34.04 | SwanDive | So, what is systemd? Well, meet your new God. You may have been praying |
| 01:34.04 | SwanDive | at the alter of simplicity, but your religion is being deprecated. It |
| 01:34.04 | SwanDive | likely already happened without your knowledge during an upgrade of |
| 01:34.04 | SwanDive | your Linux box. systemd is the all knowing, all controlling meta-deity |
| 01:34.04 | SwanDive | that sees all and supervises all |
| 01:34.08 | golinux | We do have #devuan-pfftopic for systemd venting. |
| 01:34.09 | SwanDive | haha that is terrifying |
| 01:34.27 | SwanDive | I did not realise that the privacy invasion had come into the linux world. always imagined it as a safe space |
| 01:34.36 | SwanDive | and sorry yeah not the place for the pine phone talk |
| 01:35.20 | SwanDive | I always imagined if this kind of thing would happen it would be to a paid linux distro like redhat |
| 01:36.14 | SwanDive | appreciate u linking it @golinux explains it in good detail |
| 01:36.47 | SwanDive | what next sudo becomes default user right |
| 01:36.57 | asdflkj | SwanDive: redhat is where systemd originally came from |
| 01:37.16 | SwanDive | yeah i took a course at redhat and they harped on about how great systemd was |
| 01:37.27 | SwanDive | that makes sense |
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| 01:38.25 | SwanDive | I really have alot of respect for u guys here with the Devuan project |
| 01:38.37 | SwanDive | we live in an age where we give out information like water |
| 01:39.09 | SwanDive | It is great to know the great minds behind this project are fighting for our right to privacy |
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| 01:42.13 | SwanDive | another question on the Devuan website it mentions init freedom. Has there been some issue with the daemon that needs to be replaced like systemd? |
| 01:44.36 | SwanDive | seems very strange that System d accumulates more tasks than managing services |
| 01:55.18 | SwanDive | guys thank u so much for your help today hope u have a lovely day |
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| 05:53.36 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic |
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| 16:40.44 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic |
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| 18:34.33 | fsmithred | luser977, I installed linuxcnc-buster in a VM and migrated it to beowulf using the following instructions. It went well. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=18390#p18390 |
| 18:36.55 | fsmithred | I had to manually install a few things at the end to prevent them from being autoremoved: exfat, gvfs, gdisk, xdg-utils, zenity |
| 18:37.16 | fsmithred | I have no way to test the cnc functions |
| 18:58.40 | luser977 | fsmithred: go there and tell them? #linuxcnc |
| 18:59.44 | luser977 | also, did your update/upgrade keep ghe rt kernel? that's the key. |
| 18:59.58 | luser977 | *the |
| 19:00.32 | fsmithred | luser977, of course it did. Devuan uses Debian kernels. |
| 19:01.03 | fsmithred | actually, I ended up with newer rt kernel. I just got finished removing the old ones. |
| 19:01.19 | fsmithred | got -13 while the iso has -9 and -11 |
| 19:02.25 | luser977 | run the latency test program to see |
| 19:02.41 | fsmithred | I think I'll wait until aitor does some tests before I talk to the folks in #linuxcnc |
| 19:03.02 | fsmithred | Were they asking about devuan, or was that your idea? |
| 19:04.02 | fsmithred | I'm running it in a VM. Will that give valid results? |
| 19:07.38 | luser977 | i don't know. |
| 19:08.09 | luser977 | should be the worst compounded value from host and guest. |
| 19:08.31 | luser977 | so if *that* is good... |
| 19:08.42 | fsmithred | I didn't test before converting it to devuan. |
| 19:08.45 | fsmithred | :( |
| 19:09.15 | luser977 | I don't know if a rt kernel stays rt in a vm |
| 19:09.46 | luser977 | well, test it now. what could go wrong? |
| 19:09.57 | fsmithred | I did test |
| 19:10.06 | fsmithred | don't know what it means, and the test never ends |
| 19:10.23 | fsmithred | and no easy way to save results other than screenshot |
| 19:10.29 | luser977 | so? yes it never ends. low numbers win |
| 19:11.08 | luser977 | low numbers and tight spread (no outliers) |
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| 19:16.45 | fsmithred | I can run the original iso in vm alongside the installed and migrated system also in vm, and I'm getting higher numbers with the migrated (devuan) system |
| 19:17.37 | fsmithred | now that's reversed |
| 19:17.50 | fsmithred | but they are close. I'm running glxgears at the same time |
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| 19:37.39 | luser977 | ok |
| 19:38.29 | luser977 | neat, I agree with "too complex" |
| 19:38.35 | luser977 | https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/22/debian_free_hard_to_install/ |
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| 19:47.13 | user__ | Hilariously, fsmithred, the 1st comment and the following storm in that article are all about systemd :) |
| 19:47.57 | fsmithred | the issue of non-free wireless drivers being absent from debian is not new. |
| 19:48.46 | user__ | uses an openwrt routers used as STA with ethernet cable for that precise reason, when setting up things anew. And now, for other reasons. |
| 19:49.43 | user__ | But now, ethernet plugs are gone from a lot of new laptops. And so are dvd drives. USB images should have a way to "live" patch a zipfs with non-free drivers into them during boot/install |
| 19:50.06 | user__ | On Slackware this was possible even in 1995. I remember it. Just select "have disk" or such and pop in the diskette |
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| 19:53.57 | user__ | In any case, when I made NetBSD install "tapes" (tgz) and scripts I always provided at the end the "have patch disk" option. |
| 19:54.13 | user__ | At the end of the install script I wrote. |
| 19:54.33 | user__ | Which used as little user interaction as possible, the exact opposite of current scripts. |
| 19:54.48 | user__ | [this is not a critique of current scripts] |
| 20:00.12 | user__ | fsmithred: could you not amend refractainstaller to add such a feature in the future? "Install additional driver packages" from usb stick, once running from ram? Or from USB stick in another USB receptacle? |
| 20:00.38 | fsmithred | user__, not needed if you have a network connection. |
| 20:00.59 | fsmithred | assuming you have contrib and non-free enabled in sources. list... |
| 20:01.10 | fsmithred | apt update && apt install firmware-whatever |
| 20:01.26 | fsmithred | then run refractainstaller. It copies the live system as is. |
| 20:01.44 | user__ | The idea was to get the network connection going 1st |
| 20:02.15 | fsmithred | that's why I include wireless firmware packages in Refracta isos. |
| 20:02.25 | fsmithred | in that case, 'dpkg -i... |
| 20:02.28 | user__ | Also some lshw/hwdet present on the live system and perhaps called directly from the installer. |
| 20:02.43 | fsmithred | what? |
| 20:02.47 | user__ | Ah ok, I did not notice that. The included wireless packages. |
| 20:03.09 | user__ | Being able to run lshw or similar from the install script may be useful imo. |
| 20:03.17 | fsmithred | in Refracta isos, packages are included. In Devuan Live isos, wireless firmware is already installed |
| 20:03.22 | user__ | A lot of people can't find the command easily (I can) |
| 20:03.48 | user__ | Ok, I only have experience with Devual Live installs so far. |
| 20:03.54 | fsmithred | I don't think lshw is included in most isos or in a default debian/devuan install |
| 20:04.00 | user__ | It is not. |
| 20:04.41 | fsmithred | you might like a Refracta iso better. I included a bunch of extra stuff and excluded some metapackages and recommends |
| 20:04.42 | user__ | Which MIDI synth / emulation did you say runs well on beowulf? There was a discussion a few hours ago. |
| 20:05.01 | fsmithred | no clue. n4dir uses amsynth |
| 20:05.12 | n4dir | hmm ... |
| 20:05.21 | user__ | amsynth is like an OPL chip emulator? midi in sound out? |
| 20:05.23 | fsmithred | I tried it and it works |
| 20:05.40 | fsmithred | yeah, I needed it to play midi |
| 20:06.00 | fsmithred | made audacity work and also another |
| 20:06.05 | fsmithred | maybe musescore |
| 20:06.07 | user__ | I have something called libwildmidi2 installed |
| 20:06.09 | fsmithred | or just muse |
| 20:06.24 | n4dir | user__: ask a bit more detailed or just again. I was just busy so am not in the topic right now |
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| 20:07.15 | n4dir | perhaps i have an idea. perhaps not. i am very restricted with what i do, but ran in a few applications |
| 20:08.11 | user__ | Do you have playmidi installed? |
| 20:08.29 | n4dir | nope |
| 20:09.00 | user__ | Hmm shall I get timidity or another player? |
| 20:09.53 | n4dir | i think i can't really tell you which one is good there. |
| 20:10.01 | n4dir | i do hear those names, but hardly do such |
| 20:10.09 | user__ | I have used timidity before, way back when |
| 20:10.31 | n4dir | librazik, the website, it has a list of packages (french, probably paquets or such) |
| 20:10.43 | n4dir | but that still won't help which ones are there, only 'what' |
| 20:11.14 | n4dir | sorry: which ones are good it won't tell, only which ones are there |
| 20:11.43 | user__ | what's that midi onscreen x11 keyboard called again? tvsomething? |
| 20:12.44 | user__ | ah there's jack-keyboard too |
| 20:12.48 | n4dir | virtual midi keyboard you ask for |
| 20:12.50 | n4dir | ? |
| 20:12.57 | n4dir | mamba too, and a few others |
| 20:13.03 | n4dir | vm... let me look |
| 20:13.15 | n4dir | vmpk |
| 20:13.44 | n4dir | jack-keyboard for me, if i need it at all |
| 20:14.13 | user__ | vkeybd |
| 20:14.19 | n4dir | ah, right |
| 20:14.56 | n4dir | mamba i don't hear often, and i once opened it and it kinda was a bit more of "comfort" or such, but i don't recall well |
| 20:15.08 | n4dir | as in: just keep it in mind, depending what you look for |
| 20:15.23 | user__ | mamba is not in normal package streams |
| 20:15.26 | user__ | that I can see |
| 20:15.36 | n4dir | ah, sorry. I added the librazik repos. |
| 20:15.55 | n4dir | never that sure which package is from where |
| 20:17.48 | user__ | hmm fluidsynth is present |
| 20:19.07 | n4dir | i looked at a backend for very short: qsynth |
| 20:19.24 | n4dir | but really: i only do that little. Mostly i simply know the names |
| 20:19.51 | user__ | soundfront has some serious instrument patch files. 120MB+ |
| 20:20.15 | n4dir | yeah. I installed all soundfonts from librazik, and those were like 1.5 gigs. I don't think i need them. ha ha |
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| 20:20.45 | n4dir | user__: iirc brocashelm had his say in offtopic, perhaps you ask him/her if he/she is online |
| 20:20.55 | user__ | I think I am about to lose sound. jackd is being installed |
| 20:21.34 | n4dir | with qjackctrl? |
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| 20:21.46 | user__ | I did not pay attention to that. |
| 20:22.08 | n4dir | that way you could easily stop or start it |
| 20:22.19 | n4dir | well: and configure. but i think fsmithred knows it better |
| 20:23.08 | n4dir | user__: perhaps look at a live CD like ubuntu-studio |
| 20:23.21 | n4dir | to get ideas about packages, i mean. |
| 20:24.19 | n4dir | ah, i think librazik now has a live CD too. |
| 20:25.12 | n4dir | i uploaded an iso librazik based on devuan instead of debian, but i really wouldn't trust that one. Better something "serious" |
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| 20:26.27 | fsmithred | yeah, I use qjackctl |
| 20:26.30 | user__ | I still have sound but no midi sound from the vmpk |
| 20:27.01 | n4dir | user__: you need some synth running, and connecting the midi-keyboard to the synth |
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| 20:27.24 | n4dir | probably with qjackctl, but in jack-keyboard you can do it from it's interface, iirc |
| 20:27.39 | user__ | The only output I can see in MIDI Setup is Midi Through:0 |
| 20:27.43 | n4dir | so say: start amsynth, start jack-keyboard, pick amsynth from jack-keyboard. |
| 20:27.55 | fsmithred | I got no midi from audacity until I installed amsynth. All the jack connections were automatic. |
| 20:28.12 | n4dir | fsmithred: some software does it automatically, some doesn't |
| 20:28.27 | n4dir | if you search for real brain fuck: ams |
| 20:28.59 | user__ | I have amsynth on, still no output. Let's see about jack. |
| 20:29.29 | user__ | worky just amsynth + open kbd from amsynth Utils |
| 20:29.42 | n4dir | works now? |
| 20:29.46 | user__ | yes |
| 20:29.49 | n4dir | uh baby ! |
| 20:30.19 | user__ | My audio driver is still pulse but amsynth thinks it talks to alsa due to compat pulse alsa being loaded |
| 20:30.27 | n4dir | user__: seq24 is fun, but without a quick how-to very confusing. there is one on youtube (linux music channel, iirc) |
| 20:30.47 | user__ | I'll just play around a bit. Also got tk707 |
| 20:30.52 | n4dir | looks as if it was from 1974 |
| 20:31.09 | n4dir | yeah. good luck, fun and all |
| 20:31.14 | user__ | That's fine, to much gui polish makes stuff certainly bad under the hood |
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| 20:31.49 | n4dir | it is if i want to test sounds in a synths really quick. Just an easy sequence, let it loop, while doing that fool with the "sounds" |
| 20:32.43 | n4dir | any DAW would do, but with seq24 i can do that more quickly, in a hurry |
| 20:42.44 | user__ | timidity plays nicely. |
| 20:43.06 | user__ | I get no sound from tk707 need to connect it to some player. Manually |
| 20:47.06 | user__ | timidity drum patches sound like crap. |
| 20:49.01 | user__ | timidity -iA followed by tk707 sorts the sound for tk707 |
| 20:49.33 | user__ | Not yet |
| 20:57.04 | user__ | Something is wrong. amsynth plays in pulse as an alsa plugin source |
| 20:57.30 | user__ | timidity plays nicely files from cli, timidity -iA shows as playing in pulse mixer and plays nothing |
| 20:59.25 | user__ | The problem is timidity -iA, sorry |
| 21:00.20 | user__ | so what's the other midi player/soft emulator you mentioned above again? |
| 21:00.52 | n4dir | there was muse, rosegarden and musescore mentioned, iirc |
| 21:01.13 | n4dir | though i for one don't think of them as "play midi files". |
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| 21:03.38 | n4dir | with apt-cache search i find: wildmidi, pmidi, showq, playmidi |
| 21:05.34 | n4dir | well, perhaps qsynth, gui for fluidsynth. I wouldn't know |
| 21:05.57 | user__ | playmidi requires a sequencer, which timidity is |
| 21:06.42 | user__ | wildmidi would qualify if it had a daemon mode. |
| 21:07.32 | user__ | Hmm yoshimi is interesting. Will try it later |
| 21:07.39 | n4dir | uh yeah. |
| 21:07.56 | n4dir | user__: wouldn't using lmms to play midi files make most sense? |
| 21:08.16 | user__ | I need a daemon sequencer for tk707, drum box. |
| 21:08.24 | n4dir | ah, ok. |
| 21:09.04 | user__ | timidity plays .mid just fine, but only cli, not as daemon |
| 21:10.34 | user__ | blargh it may be permissions. https://askubuntu.com/questions/822303/timidity-and-pulse-audio-playback |
| 21:12.15 | user__ | Permissions fixed it. |
| 21:12.28 | user__ | vigr + vigr -s ; add user to pulse-access: |
| 21:12.34 | user__ | fsck you again, Poettering |
| 21:12.55 | user__ | I think I need a permission group to wipe my a** from left to right now. |
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| 21:15.31 | user__ | tk707 does not work nicely. |
| 21:17.32 | user__ | what's the sound system called in /etc/init.d? |
| 21:18.57 | n4dir | i sure never find alsa, pulse or jack there. No clue how that works |
| 21:19.05 | user__ | sigh. fsmithred ? |
| 21:19.21 | user__ | I have osspd and restarted it but that is not what I need now |
| 21:20.38 | user__ | in xfce it is started by xfce in session etc |
| 21:22.38 | user__ | from cli: pulseaudio --kill; pulseaudio --start; pulseaudio --check; echo $? -> 0 |
| 21:23.44 | fluffywolf | that seems like a poor replacement for apt-get purge pulseaudio |
| 21:23.44 | fsmithred | what? |
| 21:24.12 | user__ | fsmithred: was trying to find out how pulseaudio starts, sorted |
| 21:24.42 | user__ | Ok so timidity advertises 4 sequencer channels but only 2 work. 0 and 1 |
| 21:34.34 | *** join/#devuan dagelf (~quassel@169-0-253-34.ip.afrihost.co.za) |
| 21:35.58 | user__ | and not for long, it gets "stuck" and starts chattering |
| 21:36.53 | user__ | trying fluidsynth. Works w/o jackd using: fluidsynth -a alsa -m alsa_seq ... using pulse-alsa module and pulse |
| 21:40.07 | user__ | verified cli on beowulf: fluidsynth -a alsa -m alsa_seq -s -i /usr/share/sounds/sf2/FluidR3_GM.sf2 |
| 21:48.42 | user__ | anyone used hydrogen? It's overkill for what I need but heh. |
| 21:54.58 | user__ | speaking of elusive gases, off topic: https://www.theregister.com/2021/01/23/oh_dear_there_may_be/ 0.2mm holes? Wow. |
| 21:58.42 | *** join/#devuan mith__ (~Mithrandi@109.53.3.26) |
| 22:00.33 | user__ | Interesting most of these are not in the mainstream package series http://linux-sound.org/drum.html |
| 22:05.27 | user__ | this would be nice to have, for example. Simple drum machine. http://robert.muth.org/pyTrommler/ |
| 22:07.19 | user__ | zz time here, bye |
| 22:15.47 | *** join/#devuan randomuser1975 (~randomuse@ip24-253-120-8.lv.lv.cox.net) |
| 22:15.56 | randomuser1975 | [Devuan 3] [Chmod] Issues with System-Wide Permissions |
| 22:15.56 | randomuser1975 | I had run Lynis, a system security hardening script. Following its instructions, I changed the chmod to numerous files to much more secure |
| 22:15.56 | randomuser1975 | ones. However, this caused permission errors with both alsa, and libraries. I saught the default permissions to restore my system at the directory root. In doing so, I discovered a script called "FixPermissions" originally posted to the Ubuntu Forums. Running this bricked my system. Looking around, this script apparentky has found its way around the net, bricking other people's systems (haha). |
| 22:15.57 | randomuser1975 | I am able to access root only through the Kernel's recovery console. Attatched Image is the permission changes post-script. I have access to fix this, but I have no idea what to do. Please help. |
| 22:17.21 | randomuser1975 | https://i.4cdn.org/g/1611432879315.jpg |
| 22:20.43 | randomuser1975 | Reinstilation is undesirable at this time |
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| 22:35.31 | rwp | randomuser1975 did not stay long enough for an answer. But the permissions displayed in that photo looked okay to me. |
| 22:35.49 | rwp | I am not a fan of those "hardening" scripts. Maybe at one time those had a purpose. But now they just break things. |
| 22:36.07 | rwp | Because if there were a real problem to begin with then it would have gotten fixed in the OS distro already. |
| 22:36.28 | *** join/#devuan ar3itrary (~hacker@2a03:4000:6:8177:2::1) |
| 22:36.43 | rrq | and running a script first, then seek answers how to recover is not always the best order of actions |
| 22:51.18 | Xenguy | Yeah, when random user whips out the scalpel and commences major surgery with a script, and then something goes wrong... it reminds me of automobile drivers that go out in a blizzard, and then want help getting pushed out of the snow... |
| 22:52.07 | Xenguy | When I was younger I would help for the fun of it, and but now I just laugh and keep on going B -D |
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