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| 01:06.10 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic |
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| 05:13.45 | tuxd3v | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC5E8ie2pdM |
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| 05:46.50 | bru | tuxd3v: Yup, Devuan is simply the best. |
| 05:51.26 | tuxd3v | bru, -.- |
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| 06:30.35 | ziao | refractainstaller is not asking me to install the bootloader |
| 06:30.53 | ziao | works fine with the netinstaller |
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| 08:45.59 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic |
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| 11:41.20 | un22 | Hello all how do I join #devuan-arm... or can anyone tell me about status of devuan for raspberry pi 4? |
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| 12:49.15 | Joril | un22: I've built a working Devuan image for RPI4 using https://github.com/pyavitz/rpi-img-builder |
| 12:49.24 | Joril | un22: when/if you come back :) |
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| 17:03.06 | alv | hi all where are the jessie working repositories ?? also the backports ? |
| 17:03.59 | alv | i tried many but all have some problems ? |
| 17:04.22 | james1138 | I did not think Jessie had and backports - none that I could find. |
| 17:05.22 | james1138 | deb https://deb.debian.org/debian/ jessie main |
| 17:05.40 | alv | they do still exist ?? |
| 17:05.45 | alv | ahhh ok sorry |
| 17:07.15 | alv | strange i was having a pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged main backports |
| 17:07.26 | alv | in one old system |
| 17:09.01 | alv | opps it was jessie-backports main |
| 17:09.12 | alv | not main backports |
| 17:12.46 | gnarface | jessie is being mothballed, you'll want to get off it |
| 17:13.11 | gnarface | some of the parts of the repo are already gone |
| 17:13.23 | gnarface | (notably backports and security/volatile) |
| 17:13.46 | james1138 | If you want to continue fetching Jessie backports, you need to use archive.debian.org instead |
| 17:13.57 | alv | yes i saw it |
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| 17:14.08 | alv | no already trid archive |
| 17:14.14 | alv | tried |
| 17:14.23 | alv | not working too |
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| 17:19.47 | xinomilo | there's an archive.devuan.org with only jessie in... maybe that's it.. |
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| 17:24.51 | fsmithred | deb http://archive.devuan.org/merged jessie main contrib non-free |
| 17:25.04 | fsmithred | alv, ^^^ This appears to be working. |
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| 19:06.22 | Guest60 | user account wasn't setup for some reason, but the root account and password worked fine |
| 19:07.14 | Coffee__ | Okay, so I think I found a bug in the handling of USB ethernet devices after a few hours of messing around with it. It seems that it doesn't autoconfigure them in the slightest (I'm not a networking expert on Linux), so I had to run `ip link set enx00e04c0104a7 up` followed by `/sbin/dhclient` to finally get it working. I'm on beowulf, and I don't know which package I would report this issue in. (Possibly |
| 19:07.14 | Coffee__ | related to #18 on the bug tracker.) |
| 19:08.33 | nemo | don't have any USB over here regrettably.. |
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| 19:08.50 | nemo | Coffee__: but you can't do that in wicd network manager at least? |
| 19:09.08 | Coffee__ | I tried everything I could in wicd, but could not get it working (maybe I'm an idiot) |
| 19:09.30 | Coffee__ | wicd was happy to connect to the wifi if that is helpful information |
| 19:09.49 | nemo | my personal complaint in beowulf on my SO's machine is that she does have to manually toggle wireless on, then join network |
| 19:09.52 | nemo | it does not autojoin |
| 19:09.58 | nemo | but haven't gotten around to resolving it |
| 19:10.15 | nemo | in ascii she used mate network manager which worked flawlessly but that is apparently no longer an option |
| 19:10.23 | nemo | that said, GUIs do seem to work for us, even with the manual step |
| 19:10.34 | nemo | however no USB over here |
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| 19:10.51 | nemo | bit confused as to why USB would be special though. neither of your steps above seem like things wicd can't do |
| 19:11.00 | Coffee__ | Yeah I also have that issue too for having to manually connect. I forced showing the usb adapter (it hides it by default) in wicd then clicked connect, but it widn't work. |
| 19:11.33 | fsmithred | you set it as the default wireless interface in wicd preferences? |
| 19:11.48 | nemo | fsmithred: hm. pretty sure. I'll recheck next time I'm up there |
| 19:11.51 | nemo | fsmithred: she only has the one |
| 19:12.03 | nemo | and is network is set to autoconnect, not that it does it |
| 19:12.08 | fsmithred | and you spelled that "memorable" name correctly? |
| 19:12.11 | fsmithred | asking Coffee__ |
| 19:12.12 | nemo | but maybe I neglected something |
| 19:12.36 | fsmithred | nemo, you're using wicd? |
| 19:12.47 | nemo | well. there's no other option in beowulf last I checked |
| 19:12.56 | fsmithred | and the autoconnect checkbox doesn't do it? |
| 19:12.56 | nemo | she's not thrilled, definitely was more familiar w/ mate's |
| 19:13.10 | nemo | fsmithred: it wasn't... hm. maybe I can remote in to her machine and launch wicd. lessee if it is on |
| 19:13.15 | fsmithred | network-manager and connman are other choices |
| 19:13.40 | Coffee__ | It won't let me choose a wired interface by name as far as I can see (responding to fsmithred). The USB ethernet is wired if that matters. My only choice is "wired-default" in a dropdown |
| 19:13.41 | nemo | seems to be down. I'll check later |
| 19:13.58 | fsmithred | oh |
| 19:14.57 | fsmithred | ok, Coffee__ maximize the wicd window and you will see where the Preferences are hidden |
| 19:15.01 | fsmithred | upper right |
| 19:15.24 | fsmithred | put the enx-blah number in for default wired interface |
| 19:15.40 | Coffee__ | I saw that earlier. Would it fix it if I filled in the "Wired interface" field? I guess I can reboot and see if you want me to. |
| 19:15.56 | fsmithred | yeah, it needs to know which interface to use |
| 19:16.12 | fsmithred | you can just restart wicd service |
| 19:16.24 | Coffee__ | There is only one available so shouldn't it automatically pick it? It automatically picked the wireless interface. |
| 19:17.46 | fsmithred | if you open the preferences and that number is already in the box, then yeah, it's automatic |
| 19:17.50 | fsmithred | otherwise, not. |
| 19:18.21 | Coffee__ | Hmm, okay I'm going to fill in the field and reboot and see if it automatically reconnects. I'll be back in a few minutes |
| 19:18.28 | fsmithred | ok |
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| 19:21.59 | Coffee__ | fsmithred you were correct. It automatically connects now. I still feel that it was extremely unintuitive especially considering I only have one ethernet interface (not even one enabled, just one that exists). |
| 19:23.17 | Coffee__ | If I wanted to propose changing this would I take to the maintainers of wicd? |
| 19:23.21 | Coffee__ | *talk |
| 19:24.40 | fsmithred | yeah, maybe. I'm not sure what the deal is with wicd |
| 19:25.17 | fsmithred | there's a version in experimental, and there was or is some issue with python2 vs python3 |
| 19:25.55 | fsmithred | there's a good chance that network-manager will be the default in chimaera, since wicd is missing. |
| 19:28.49 | Hurgotron | aww? I liked wicd... |
| 19:28.56 | fsmithred | me too |
| 19:31.43 | n4dir | me too |
| 19:33.18 | Coffee__ | What do you meaning by wicd is missing? Is it not available on chimaera? |
| 19:33.25 | fsmithred | correct |
| 19:33.48 | fsmithred | there is a version in ceres, but it's the same one that's in beowulf, and it's a devuanized version |
| 19:34.01 | fsmithred | it's not in sid or bullseye |
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| 19:43.06 | rwp | Since I am not a python person and though I liked wicd there were some weird things about it, I will probably try connman for a bit and then try writing my own. |
| 19:43.11 | rwp | Since I don't know what I don't know and the view from here does not seem that difficult. |
| 19:44.02 | fsmithred | there's also simple-netaid in gnuinos repo |
| 19:44.09 | fsmithred | I think there's also ceni available |
| 19:44.47 | fsmithred | oh, and there's still setnet in devuan experimental |
| 19:46.33 | fsmithred | rwp, https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20200301.213630.00c83746.en.html |
| 19:47.44 | fsmithred | I know there are several older discussions about simple-netaid on that list |
| 19:48.05 | fsmithred | permission and security related stuff |
| 19:48.49 | rwp | So that's a C library for building ifupdown-like tools? |
| 19:58.32 | Guest60 | hey so on a fresh install my user account isn't set up, but the root works fine. should i switch to chimaera and make the user account later? |
| 19:59.10 | gnarface | no, but it won't actually matter |
| 19:59.30 | gnarface | you should make the new account now, because running as root isn't something you should do if you have to ask why not to |
| 19:59.41 | Guest60 | alr |
| 20:00.06 | gnarface | but it should be possible to make the new account either before or after upgrading |
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| 20:00.29 | gnarface | i'm assuming you have a reason to upgrade other than the missing user account, or i'd advise against it |
| 20:01.10 | Guest60 | yeah |
| 20:01.15 | Guest60 | i want to try testing out |
| 20:01.27 | Guest60 | so i'll make the user account now and do the upgrade after |
| 20:01.41 | Guest60 | i made it during install but it doesn't work for some reason |
| 20:01.50 | Guest60 | i tried checking with the users command but only root comes up |
| 20:03.15 | gnarface | well, "users" only reports currently logged-in users, so that's not a surprise |
| 20:03.37 | Guest60 | does the same thing happen with who? |
| 20:03.49 | gnarface | yes |
| 20:04.04 | rwp | And also "w" which is another common who+uptime command. |
| 20:04.15 | rwp | Those only report logged in users. Not on available logins. |
| 20:04.16 | Guest60 | how can i see all user accounts then? |
| 20:04.24 | gnarface | look in /etc/passwd |
| 20:04.43 | gnarface | also look in /home/ |
| 20:04.46 | rwp | A cheap and easy way is to "ls /home" or "ls -l /home" and see the home directories of users there. |
| 20:05.04 | gnarface | yea, though if the user creation went awry for whatever reason, it might have failed to create a home directory |
| 20:05.42 | Guest60 | wait nvm |
| 20:06.09 | Guest60 | i guess i named the user account the wrong thing or smth |
| 20:06.33 | Guest60 | anyways i think i know what the problem is |
| 20:06.45 | Guest60 | how can i change my account name? |
| 20:07.08 | fsmithred | some usermod commands |
| 20:07.44 | fsmithred | usermod -l $newname $oldname |
| 20:07.44 | n4dir | i wouldn't bother much with it. deluser olduser; rm -r /home/olduser, adduser newuser |
| 20:07.52 | fsmithred | yeah, that's easier |
| 20:08.23 | n4dir | as long you didn't know what exactly went wrong |
| 20:10.13 | rwp | It's one of those things of, "If you have to ask then..." but I always simply edit the files and rename the directory manually. (shrug) |
| 20:10.58 | fsmithred | if you have a desktop, the old user name might be hanging around in some hidden files |
| 20:11.20 | rwp | Such as...?? |
| 20:11.30 | rwp | I say pictures or it didn't happen! :-) |
| 20:12.18 | n4dir | isn't it scripted somewhere in refractainstaller ? or at least "was" |
| 20:12.27 | n4dir | hunt for them and rename them |
| 20:13.07 | fsmithred | for i in $(grep -r "/home/$oldname" /home/$newname/.config | awk -F":" ' { print $1 }'); do |
| 20:13.12 | rwp | "grep -r $oldname /home/$oldname" |
| 20:13.16 | rwp | Jinx! :-) |
| 20:13.21 | fsmithred | lol |
| 20:13.37 | fsmithred | same in .kde if you use it |
| 20:13.45 | fsmithred | same in .local |
| 20:14.10 | rwp | I would use "find" for me but find puts people off so I thought grep -r. "find /home -type f -exec grep $oldname {} +" |
| 20:14.15 | fsmithred | it's in there so that when you open a terminal or file manager, it knows what directory to show |
| 20:15.02 | rwp | Instead of renaming since those .config files are created upon first use I would probably simply remove them and let them be created again. If they encode special things. |
| 20:15.27 | n4dir | sledgehammer is the best hammer |
| 20:15.34 | rwp | Assuming they are doing some type of caching of the name instead of using $HOME and $USER as they ought to be doing. |
| 20:16.19 | rwp | There are only a few ways to do things correctly but there are an infinite number of ways for things to be done the wrong way... Sigh. |
| 20:18.08 | rwp | In practice one of the worst problems in this space I would run into is sharing a $HOME directory across different DE versions. Because the DE versions would fight with each other. |
| 20:18.22 | Guest60 | ok so i should rename the user folder, and go into the /etc/passwd file and edit the names for that user account |
| 20:18.33 | Guest60 | right? |
| 20:18.49 | rwp | Yes. Correct. |
| 20:18.54 | fsmithred | and /etc/group |
| 20:19.03 | Guest60 | alright |
| 20:19.05 | rwp | Also know that the set of four account files are /etc/passwd, /etc/group, /etc/shadow, /etc/gshadow |
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| 20:19.30 | Guest60 | what do shadow and gshadow do btw? i saw it while installing grub in refracta |
| 20:19.31 | rwp | Editing the username string in that set of four files is all that is needed. Plus ensuring that the home directory listed in /etc/passwd matches in /home |
| 20:19.39 | n4dir | deleting and recreating the user still seems to be the most easy solution to me |
| 20:19.51 | rwp | So edit those files and then "ls -l /home" and verify that everything is consistent and matching. |
| 20:19.59 | fsmithred | ^^^ |
| 20:20.04 | rwp | /etc/shadow holds the hashed password for the user. |
| 20:20.34 | fsmithred | my arrows were supposed to point to n4dir's statement |
| 20:20.36 | rwp | /etc/gshadow is mostly useless and I am still trying to understand why it was created. Just for symmetry? Probably. |
| 20:20.50 | fsmithred | deluser oldname && adduser newname |
| 20:20.51 | fsmithred | done |
| 20:21.10 | rwp | Deleting and recreating is maximally safe. But manually editing gives the opportunity to learn. Which has long term advantages. |
| 20:21.15 | n4dir | i think you also have to delete the home directory. But it really is like 30 seconds altogether |
| 20:21.33 | fsmithred | yeah, probably |
| 20:21.42 | rwp | n4dir, One should rename the home directory at the same time. "mv /home/$oldname /home/$newname" That's it. |
| 20:22.11 | rwp | So that it matches the last field of /etc/passwd which lists the $HOME directory. Which would have been renamed when editing /etc/passwd because of the name. |
| 20:22.19 | n4dir | well. then you have to hunt with grep. but anyway. |
| 20:22.47 | rwp | grep? We had this FUD about grep. But it really isn't needed. Pictures or it did not happen! |
| 20:25.13 | n4dir | Guest60: can make the pictures, if you need them |
| 20:25.28 | Guest60 | i think i'll be fine |
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| 20:25.40 | Guest60 | but thanks |
| 20:26.15 | fazzah | hi, how can i stop my devuan os going to sleep/screensaver when i watch fullscreen video in firefox? |
| 20:29.54 | rwp | fazzah, You don't know it but you are staring into a dark abyss with that question. I have seen fights break out over it. |
| 20:30.57 | Guest60 | n4dir, so if i did deluser oldname && adduser newname, all i would have to do is passwd newname to create a password for the new account right? |
| 20:31.13 | n4dir | adduser will already ask for a password |
| 20:31.20 | Guest60 | oh ok |
| 20:31.28 | fsmithred | grep -rn home/fsmithred .config |wc -l |
| 20:31.30 | fsmithred | 422 |
| 20:32.25 | rwp | fsmithred, Wow! Who are the offenders? I will try that here. |
| 20:33.02 | rwp | Also, you didn't need -a to avoid the "binary file matches" breakage? |
| 20:33.04 | fsmithred | wow, a bunch are supertuxcart |
| 20:33.18 | n4dir | uh yeah ! |
| 20:33.31 | rwp | I am getting hits in chromium history sqlite database. |
| 20:33.33 | fsmithred | geany, rosegarden, vlc, |
| 20:33.43 | fsmithred | desktop icons |
| 20:34.33 | fsmithred | rwp I never use -a |
| 20:34.56 | fsmithred | I don't mind knowing that my pattern is in a binary file, especially if it's my name |
| 20:35.04 | rwp | The -a was never needed before grep added checking for binary files. So now I almost always add -a. |
| 20:35.25 | rwp | I don't see the need to know it was a binary file. Just being a file is good enough for me. |
| 20:36.12 | rwp | I get 54 hits. Mostly in chromium sqlite history files. Then something about "ghb" a few hits. Then a five cached xfce desktop icons. |
| 20:36.31 | fazzah | rwp, oh, how is that so? |
| 20:36.39 | rwp | In my case there is nothing that that is more than old cache files that would not create any problem. |
| 20:37.07 | rwp | fazzah, Every part of the screensaver and Firefox and everything points fingers for the blame at the other parties. |
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| 20:37.42 | rwp | And I can say this here but not in other channels... systemd is also involved and being very opinionated it is also causing problems with screensavers. |
| 20:37.58 | rwp | Thankfully we don't need to worry about that particular breakage. |
| 20:38.19 | fazzah | are there solutions? it's not convenient when watching a football game... |
| 20:38.21 | rwp | I did a quick search and found this 7 year old reference: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/987207 |
| 20:38.30 | nemo | rwp: wait wut? |
| 20:38.37 | nemo | rwp: systemd has problems with... screensavers? |
| 20:38.51 | fsmithred | turn the screensaver off |
| 20:38.51 | rwp | Also this reference. https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/117222/disabling-xscreensaver-when-firefox-is-playing-htm5-video |
| 20:38.59 | nemo | ah |
| 20:39.02 | fsmithred | you can use the power manager to save power |
| 20:39.07 | rwp | I am not running a screensaver or screen locker and therefore I do not personally have a problem with it locking while playing videos. |
| 20:39.39 | rwp | nemo, Last rant I remember was from jwz (who else?) who ranted about how systemd had broken things. |
| 20:39.50 | fsmithred | plus screensavers that do anything other than blank the screen are a waste of energy, so you should feel guilty about using them |
| 20:40.13 | nemo | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=811261 â this definitely works at home though |
| 20:40.19 | rwp | nemo, Reference: https://www.jwz.org/blog/2020/12/xscreensaver-5-45/ |
| 20:40.19 | nemo | I watch full length movies in firefox with the kids all the time |
| 20:40.44 | nemo | fsmithred: heh. our screensaver at home is slideshow. it runs for about 15 minutes and often provides family entertainment/happiness |
| 20:40.48 | nemo | so no guilt here ð |
| 20:40.58 | nemo | then screen powers off |
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| 20:41.17 | nemo | it's kind of like a spontaneous family photo album pause |
| 20:41.43 | fsmithred | sounds nice |
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| 20:42.04 | fsmithred | I used to run a screensaver to help heat the room |
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| 20:42.22 | nemo | wow. that systemd behaviour is pretty wtf |
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| 20:42.48 | rwp | nemo, It's not really surprising that jwz ranted about something. I was more shocked that he actually had nice things to say about something. (VLC in this case.) |
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| 20:43.10 | nemo | well. vlc is pretty awesome |
| 20:43.40 | rwp | vlc is pretty excellent. Although mostly I find myself using mpv most of the time. |
| 20:44.35 | rwp | But yes... That systemd behavior is a classic WTF! But perhaps more like, it's systemd so WCGW? |
| 20:44.35 | nemo | I *have* run into a problem with vlc on the family account on the living room chimæra that I haven't figured out yet |
| 20:44.44 | nemo | for some reason, if I close vlc, it stays open in background, hanging. |
| 20:45.00 | nemo | not all the time, but often enough. and result is that I can't launch it again until I run a killall -9 vlc |
| 20:45.15 | nemo | I tried blowing away all vlc settings that I could find on this account, but the problem simply returned again |
| 20:45.23 | nemo | I probably should talk to them about it instead of resorting to kills |
| 20:46.20 | fsmithred | I used to have a special button on the panel with the command 'pkill vlc' |
| 20:46.23 | fsmithred | worked great |
| 20:46.37 | fsmithred | or maybe it was pkill -9 vlc |
| 20:47.36 | fsmithred | I think that was back in jessie |
| 20:47.42 | fsmithred | so, not a new problem |
| 20:50.37 | nemo | intersting |
| 20:50.42 | nemo | +e |
| 20:50.52 | nemo | ok. so if it isn't a new problem, maybe VLC is aware of it and has more info |
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| 20:51.06 | nemo | fsmithred: I thought maybe it was related to running it as an applet or something but doesn't seem to be |
| 20:51.43 | nemo | fsmithred: I'm thinking for family's sake I'll just make a VLC wrapper that runs kill first. They never launch 2 videos at once anyway |
| 20:53.29 | Guest60 | so if my sources.list says merged beowulf main should i just change it to merged chimaera main |
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| 20:54.00 | fsmithred | Guest60, yes, then update and upgrade |
| 20:54.04 | Guest60 | alright |
| 20:54.08 | fsmithred | for chimaera you only need one line |
| 20:54.18 | fsmithred | there's no -security or -updates |
| 20:54.27 | Guest60 | ok |
| 20:54.45 | fsmithred | if you have just a base system, it should go well |
| 20:55.04 | fsmithred | if you have a desktop, you may run into some difficulties |
| 20:55.34 | Guest60 | should i get rid of the de then? |
| 20:55.46 | fsmithred | what do you have? |
| 20:55.49 | Guest60 | xfce |
| 20:55.56 | fsmithred | and did you select the desktop from the installer? |
| 20:56.13 | Guest60 | there wasn't an option given in refracta |
| 20:56.13 | fsmithred | task-xfce-desktop, desktop-base might not be ready |
| 20:56.37 | fsmithred | devuan-live or actual Refracta iso? |
| 20:56.42 | Guest60 | devuan-live |
| 20:56.50 | fsmithred | so yeah, you have the task package |
| 20:56.55 | fsmithred | upgrade and see what happens |
| 20:56.58 | Guest60 | alright |
| 20:57.03 | fsmithred | if it gets removed you can install it again |
| 20:57.16 | Guest60 | yeah |
| 20:57.18 | fsmithred | hm |
| 20:57.42 | fsmithred | can always try it with --simulate |
| 20:58.37 | fsmithred | for future reference, if you want to run testing, it's easier to just install the base, upgrade, then add the desktop. It goes a lot faster that way. |
| 20:58.52 | fsmithred | but you don't get that choice with the live |
| 20:59.09 | Guest60 | yeah i'll run simulate first |
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