| 06:02.41 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@96-86-209-99-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net) |
| 06:02.41 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic |
| 06:02.42 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 07:27.07 | KREYREN | 2.01 seeded yay |
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| 09:13.54 | KREYREN | no headpats hm? |
| 09:13.56 | KREYREN | :c |
| 09:15.11 | gnarface | it's friday night, i think you will get them tomorrow morning |
| 09:16.09 | KREYREN | hmm >.> |
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| 09:16.21 | KREYREN | saturday afternoon here~ |
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| 10:30.04 | *** join/#devuan aitor_ (~aitor@30.85-87-182.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 10:30.16 | aitor_ | morning here |
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| 10:33.20 | aitor_ | OT: i've just read in techrights about Alex Oliva's resignation from the board of directors of the fsf |
| 10:33.25 | aitor_ | http://techrights.org/2021/01/10/alex-oliva-fsf-board/ |
| 10:34.22 | aitor_ | one week ago |
| 10:44.32 | KREYREN | aitor_, tldr? |
| 10:45.47 | KREYREN | smells of the average FSF hostility and incompetence though~ |
| 10:47.26 | aitor_ | first rms and now alex oliva |
| 10:55.05 | KREYREN | i find it being a good way that RMS resigned aldo i would like to see him in the board of directors |
| 10:55.15 | KREYREN | *good thing |
| 11:02.24 | aitor_ | i've been reading Alexandre Oliva's latest writings: http://www.fsfla.org/ikiwiki/blogs/lxo/ |
| 11:03.31 | KREYREN | eh? |
| 11:07.33 | aitor_ | he says: |
| 11:07.50 | aitor_ | "Would you make a pledge to become a new member, or to renew your membership, if the FSF gets Richard back in the board of directors? Please email it to the FSF contact address (info), copying myself (oliva, at fsf or gnu)." |
| 11:10.08 | Helle | eeeh, I think the FSF is better off without RMS |
| 11:11.10 | specing | It's not |
| 11:11.40 | KREYREN | it is as RMS is incompetent politician |
| 11:11.56 | KREYREN | and having him in lead position poses danger to his life |
| 11:12.22 | aitor_ | one thing is true: when people emailed him expressing disapproval for the FSF, even right after his resignation, he has asking them to keep on supporting the FSF |
| 11:14.21 | KREYREN | which is waste of time and resources imho |
| 11:14.29 | KREYREN | FSFE does better job and are much more competent |
| 11:14.34 | gnarface | guys, take it to #devuan-offtopic |
| 11:14.38 | KREYREN | mkay x.x |
| 11:14.59 | gnarface | this is supposed to be a support channel |
| 11:15.03 | aitor_ | gnarface: sorry |
| 11:15.19 | gnarface | i mean like a platform support channel, not an emotional support channel |
| 11:15.46 | KREYREN | what about politically motivated things such as me finding an excuse to say publiccode.eu ? |
| 11:16.10 | gnarface | obviously not |
| 11:16.14 | KREYREN | oke x.x |
| 11:16.30 | gnarface | take it all to offtopic |
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| 11:34.57 | fsmithred | gnarface, good call regarding desktop-live. I did included nonfree firmware, and I keep forgetting that there's more than just wireless. |
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| 11:47.44 | aitor_ | hi, fsmithred |
| 11:47.55 | fsmithred | hi aitor |
| 11:48.36 | aitor_ | pkginfo.devuan.org seems to be developed in gopher, a fork of Go? |
| 11:49.34 | fsmithred | I don't know anything about the code |
| 11:49.54 | fsmithred | actually, I thought it was perl, but I don't know where I got that idea |
| 11:50.02 | aitor_ | http://5.196.69.93/d1pkgweb-query/log/ |
| 11:50.03 | fsmithred | I sure haven't looked at it |
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| 11:53.19 | fsmithred | I don't know if that's current |
| 11:53.30 | fsmithred | and there are two pkginfos now, do you know that? |
| 11:54.29 | aitor_ | no, katolaz's repo is the only one i've seen, and yes, it's gopher: it's gopher: http://5.196.69.93/d1pkgweb-query/commit/?h=gopher |
| 11:56.18 | rrq | yes that's the old one; the new ones are in bash+xslt(+css) |
| 11:56.39 | rrq | https://pkginfo.devuan.org |
| 11:56.42 | aitor_ | rrq, thanks |
| 11:56.59 | rrq | and https://pkginfo.devuan.org/policy-query.xml |
| 11:57.10 | fsmithred | is the old one still active? |
| 11:57.40 | rrq | unmaintained, but the direct link is serviced |
| 11:58.13 | fsmithred | 404 on that url |
| 12:00.53 | aitor_ | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/xsl-bin/policy-query.html |
| 12:01.56 | rrq | old https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=hello |
| 12:02.34 | rrq | (as noted: unmaintained) |
| 12:03.24 | rrq | my mistake on the other: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/policy-query.xml |
| 12:03.56 | rrq | and aitor dropped "the current" |
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| 12:05.44 | rrq | or even "the current official": https://pkginfo.devuan.org/xsl-bin/policy-query.html |
| 12:07.33 | rrq | source at: https://git.devuan.org/devuan/tellpackage.git |
| 12:09.05 | aitor_ | thanks, ralph, that's what i was looking for |
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| 13:27.55 | e3d3 | Happy new Devuan user is just passing by and say hi |
| 13:29.11 | Wonka | I reported a bug some days ago, https://bugs.devuan.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=538. I got a mail from the bts, telling me the bug number and URL, and one from a mailing list system, notifying me my mail was being held until the list moderator can review it for approval. Nothing more since then. Is this normal? |
| 13:46.56 | gnarface | i think it's normal yes, Wonka |
| 13:47.14 | gnarface | there might be some sort of process you can go through to avoid the delay in the future, i'm not sure though... |
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| 15:34.48 | user_____ | Hi. Was there any followup here after the discussion on #devuan-offtopic yesterday concerning leech tcp connections in devuan ff-esr open on blank page and or private window? |
| 15:35.11 | user_____ | I posted examples and a link to a script that I wrote to temporarily mitigate the problem. |
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| 15:45.38 | cba | May I ask if this is the right place to ask about up to 7 open tcp connections held open by firefox-esr 78.6.1esr (64-bit) (and 78.5.* before it), to various google and aws servers, even if only one private window is open, with nothing in the history (purged)? |
| 15:46.11 | cba | The 7 connections dwindle to "just" 3 when private browsing is selected AND File->Offline then File->Online is exercised |
| 15:46.27 | cba | one is to a port 403 and TWO are to port 80, on 3 different servers |
| 15:47.22 | cba | This script was manually elaborated by me to cover all attempts by the browser to connect to various servers of this kind, it is just a proof of concept, and makes normal browsing very hard since it locks out, among others, almost all of amazon aws and google. |
| 15:47.29 | cba | https://termbin.com/h37t |
| 15:47.49 | xinomilo | maybe these are from addons |
| 15:47.59 | cba | In a private window, addons are off |
| 15:48.08 | xinomilo | safe browsing? |
| 15:48.14 | cba | OR claim to be off |
| 15:48.19 | xinomilo | ff and all browsers use a lot of telemetry unfortunately |
| 15:48.23 | cba | xinomilo: private window not safe browsing, sorry |
| 15:48.44 | xinomilo | safe browsing settings |
| 15:48.48 | xinomilo | phish check, etc |
| 15:48.59 | cba | xinomilo: right, let's talk about telemetry in a private window while doing ebanking. I'm in Europe. By GDPR laws whoever had this idea will be buried alive in debts. |
| 15:49.27 | cba | Essentially he'll be sued off of the face of the planet. |
| 15:49.38 | xinomilo | i'm in europe too, gdpr checks are rare/not existent |
| 15:49.49 | cba | All telemetry options are checked off that I know of. |
| 15:50.03 | cba | Suggest ways to locate this crap in about:config or elsewhere and turn it off |
| 15:50.34 | cba | xinomilo: you and I then have the right to be reimbursed for any claimed (by us) damage AND have the right to ask to know what data is being collected and ask for it to be deleted. |
| 15:51.12 | cba | Right now, lacking proof or a statement, I will go with "all my data is collected while in a secure window, connected to my bank, or heath fund's lab test result page" |
| 15:51.36 | cba | That alone will put whoever came up with this in preventive detention until we settle exactly what they saw. It could take years. |
| 15:52.36 | cba | So, in gdpr terms: where are the "opt in opt out" statements and or buttons for these connections. |
| 15:52.39 | cba | NOW. |
| 15:52.48 | DHE | firefox does all kinds of things. one of the things I've seen not mentioned yet is try to detect if there's a captive portal |
| 15:53.05 | DHE | apparently the solution to the "captive portal doesn't work with SSL" problem is the clients go out of their way to detect one |
| 15:54.28 | cba | captive portals are for example GPRS/G3/G4 modems... the current ff-esr with it's unwarranted connections has the proven ability to keep such a modem connected to the data bearer's network and consume bandwidth. I.e. it costs money. Metered real kilobytes. |
| 15:55.06 | cba | Oh, and, yes, fennec the ff on android, is also affected. Very affected. |
| 15:55.25 | DHE | captive portals are used a lot in wifi networks at public places as well |
| 15:55.38 | cba | My router's tcp connection table lights up like an xmas tree when a mobile phone's wifi connection is used by fennec |
| 15:55.48 | cba | DHE: yes and with good reason. |
| 15:56.31 | cba | Is this lying to the public really necessary? And do the developers/sponsors think they will get away with it undefinitely? |
| 15:56.35 | cba | *indef |
| 16:04.28 | cba | All settings relevant to telemetry in about:config also all settings which contain a url of google's or other are edited here, point at local servers which serve to log potential access. No access is logged, but the connections to various external servers persist. |
| 16:04.44 | cba | Also they are not temporary ones they are keep-open tcp connections. |
| 16:04.54 | cba | fw state ESTABLISHED |
| 16:08.26 | cba | Is there a developer channel for firefox? on freenode or elsewhere? |
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| 16:12.44 | Helle | cba: nope, they abandoned IRC a few years ago |
| 16:13.05 | Helle | moved to matrix |
| 16:13.49 | cba | matrix being? the forum on vivaldi also does not work? |
| 16:14.04 | Helle | https://wiki.mozilla.org/Matrix |
| 16:14.05 | cba | I posted there some time ago |
| 16:14.08 | cba | Ah that |
| 16:14.29 | Helle | basically, IRC, but federated and with all sorts of non-features |
| 16:14.56 | xinomilo | why not use tor browser for more privacy ? |
| 16:15.17 | xinomilo | this is also helpful for ff : https://github.com/arkenfox/user.js |
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| 16:17.24 | cba | xinomilo: I have bad news for you: torified firefox seems to have the same problem. Let's not call it a trojan. Until proven to be one, that is. |
| 16:18.31 | xinomilo | tor browser, not torified firefox |
| 16:25.38 | cba | So, Saturdays are not nice for irc about serious matters, right? |
| 16:26.22 | cba | I tried the same background tcp connection thing in vivaldi browser, it also opens a bunch of things it should not, but they die down after 5-10 minutes. |
| 16:27.02 | xinomilo | to be honest, i don't see those connections with ff-esr (ceres) |
| 16:27.18 | cba | really? |
| 16:27.23 | xinomilo | could be update checks, addon updates, adblock list updates, safebrowsing checks, telemetry, etc, |
| 16:27.23 | cba | what ff version? |
| 16:27.35 | cba | xinomilo: all those things are off here |
| 16:27.39 | xinomilo | 78.6.1 |
| 16:27.42 | cba | all the ones I know of |
| 16:27.54 | cba | I have the same now. |
| 16:28.04 | cba | I think they may have turned something off since yesterday. |
| 16:28.09 | cba | Quick reaction force? |
| 16:31.35 | xinomilo | well, i do see 3-4 ips from your list.. eg. 216.58.192.0/19 google seems to be from safebrowsing which i have turned on. |
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| 16:32.50 | xinomilo | based in nsa, brrr.. have to switch it off |
| 16:33.34 | xinomilo | got to check on the baby, creepy network check will have to wait.. :D |
| 16:33.43 | xinomilo | use tails and try the same test.. would be interesting |
| 16:34.38 | xinomilo | ah no, 216.58.192.0/1 could also be google search |
| 16:34.43 | xinomilo | remove it from ff |
| 16:45.38 | cba | fwiw no google set in this ff, duckduck is set as default search engine |
| 16:45.59 | cba | and no safe browsing |
| 16:46.44 | cba | $ whois 216.58.192.0|grep CIDR |
| 16:46.44 | cba | CIDR: 216.58.192.0/19 |
| 16:54.59 | cba | I feel that addressing the leech tcp connections in these times of political noise and censorship start online is important |
| 16:55.46 | cba | Also have to say that vivaldi is rather nice there, in that it has connections which are unexplained but drop off after a while, and, they are all encrypted, unlike ff's |
| 16:56.48 | cba | I retract that, one is on cloudflare, 80, but may be website specific. |
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| 17:05.13 | *** mode/#devuan [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 17:05.43 | *** topic/#devuan by DocScrutinizer05 -> Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://reisenweber.net/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic |
| 17:05.49 | *** mode/#devuan [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 17:06.18 | cba | What was the old /topic? |
| 17:06.53 | cba | Ah logs location changed |
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| 17:31.16 | msiism | So, I've been trying to get this font rendering issue on my new Beowulf installation sorted out. But no luck so far. I've tried a few Xft settings in ~/.Xresources, but to no avail. Modifying most of these settings didn't seem to have any effect at all. |
| 17:31.54 | msiism | I've created a little screenshot collection to visualize the problem: https://www.msiism.org/fd/bgdW3l/font_rendering--beowulf_vs_ascii.png |
| 17:32.44 | gnarface | hey msiism just one thing, have you checked your Xorg log to see what video driver it's loading? |
| 17:33.03 | msiism | I haven't. I should probably do that. |
| 17:33.11 | gnarface | the live image may have included the non-free drivers by default |
| 17:33.21 | gnarface | a regular install won't do that |
| 17:33.39 | gnarface | well, it will for wifi, but just because it can't complete the install without it |
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| 17:33.44 | gnarface | not for video drivers |
| 17:33.45 | msiism | Yeah, but, as it truns out, the live version does actually have the same problem. |
| 17:33.52 | gnarface | oh |
| 17:34.03 | msiism | I hadn't really realized that. |
| 17:34.10 | gnarface | you and tried changing settings with dpkg-reconfigure fontconfig-config? |
| 17:34.30 | gnarface | (not sure if changes require an Xorg restart to see) |
| 17:34.57 | gnarface | i think some window managers might have a general anti-aliasing setting |
| 17:35.01 | gnarface | not sure about that |
| 17:35.04 | msiism | No, I've just been poking around with Xft.* in ~/.Xresources so far. I alsow tried copying the content of /etc/fonts from ASCII and see how that goes. It didn't really make a difference. |
| 17:35.22 | gnarface | try the dpkg-reconfigure thing |
| 17:35.29 | msiism | Okay. Will do. |
| 17:35.30 | gnarface | at least to see the available options |
| 17:36.31 | debdog | if it's the radeon driver, I'd say it just sucks. |
| 17:36.36 | gnarface | there was a change to the defaults at some point, something was actually added that wasn't supported before, so things looked more accurate, but for some fonts it was worse |
| 17:36.41 | gnarface | for fontconfig that is |
| 17:37.00 | gnarface | may be a matter of opinion what counts as worse |
| 17:37.57 | msiism | Okay, going through fontconfig-config now. I hope I can fix this somehow because rendering was really good on ASCII. |
| 17:40.15 | msiism | Hm⦠doesn't seem to have had mucbn of a discernabel effect. |
| 17:42.03 | msiism | Okay, let's look at Xorg.log. |
| 17:43.48 | msiism | Uhm⦠there's no Xorg.log⦠|
| 17:44.35 | debdog | .local/share/xorg/ |
| 17:44.46 | debdog | well ~/.local/... |
| 17:44.49 | msiism | Oh, right, just being told that by find(1). :) |
| 17:45.21 | fsmithred | firmware-misc-nonfree is in the desktop-live isos |
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| 17:46.01 | msiism | Okay, I don't have that installed. |
| 17:46.09 | fsmithred | apt show firmware-misc-nonfree will give you a big list of hardware |
| 17:46.15 | fsmithred | or drivers |
| 17:46.22 | fsmithred | or firmware |
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| 17:47.05 | msiism | Okay, I see. |
| 17:49.22 | msiism | I'm using the i915 graphics driver. There's things for i915 listed in firmware-misc-nonfree. I'll try that. |
| 17:49.33 | onefang | Interesting. Remember that "xscreensaver doesn't turn off monitors" problem I had before. After apt updating to the latest kernel, it works now. |
| 17:50.06 | msiism | fsmithred: However, as you can see in the screenshot collection I posted above, Desktop Live does actually have the font rendering problem on my machine, too. |
| 17:50.48 | msiism | But it seems that it is a bit less of an issue with GTK3 (compared to GTK2). |
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| 17:56.19 | msiism | So, do I need to reboot to make this added firmware package have an effect? |
| 17:56.51 | msiism | Okay, seeming some weird glitch here too. This might really be a driver issue. |
| 17:57.19 | gnarface | firmware i think you do need to reboot for |
| 17:58.09 | msiism | Okay, I'll be right back then. |
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| 18:01.20 | msiism | Hm⦠My Openbox menu might look slightly better now. |
| 18:02.35 | *** join/#devuan lyubov (~lyubov@172-3-143-10.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:02.42 | msiism | Apart from that, no luck. |
| 18:04.53 | *** join/#devuan bz2S (~bull@185.117.72.168) |
| 18:05.08 | msiism | I mean, it's a bit of a dirty approach, but, maybe, trying the xerver-xorg-video-intel package from ASCII could work. |
| 18:06.41 | msiism | Yeah, I'm gonna try that. |
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| 18:12.00 | fsmithred | I don't know if mixing xorg versions will work |
| 18:12.17 | msiism | Me neither. |
| 18:13.14 | msiism | Hm⦠apt refuses to give me the ascii version of the package. |
| 18:13.22 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~furrywolf@172.58.92.166) |
| 18:13.55 | fsmithred | I guess I should install firmware-misc-nonfree and see if it improves your screenshots |
| 18:14.14 | msiism | Yeah, I have done that and rebooted already. |
| 18:14.32 | msiism | It didn't have any noticeable effect. |
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| 18:15.23 | furrywolf | after upgrading to beowulf, wicd no longer seems to have a menu entry, in either the debian menu system or the stupid .desktop menu system. any idea what's up with this? |
| 18:16.10 | fsmithred | furrywolf, is the .desktop file missing from /usr/share/applications? |
| 18:16.35 | furrywolf | checks |
| 18:16.38 | furrywolf | it's in there |
| 18:17.26 | fsmithred | what menu are you looking at? |
| 18:17.34 | fsmithred | oh |
| 18:17.35 | fsmithred | nm |
| 18:17.47 | furrywolf | the start-equivalent menu |
| 18:17.56 | fsmithred | yeah, it shows up in xfce |
| 18:18.18 | furrywolf | I have both menus in icewm, the debian menu and the .desktop menu, and it's in neither of them... |
| 18:18.50 | fsmithred | I don't know what to say about that |
| 18:18.57 | fsmithred | anyway, I need to reboot. brb |
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| 18:26.00 | msiism | Okay, using the package from ascii does not work, but it almost did⦠|
| 18:26.24 | *** join/#devuan fsmithred (~fsmithred@devuan/developer/fsmithred) |
| 18:27.55 | fsmithred | well, I don't see any difference after installing firmware-misc-nonfree but that might have to do with this: W: Possible missing firmware /lib/firmware/nvidia/gv100/acr/ucode_load.bin for module nouveau |
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| 18:40.31 | msiism | I think it's probably a problem with the i915 driver. |
| 18:40.59 | msiism | I don't have that problem with nouveau on my laptop. |
| 18:41.13 | msiism | Hm. let's try Devuan live on that laptop, actually⦠|
| 18:44.06 | fsmithred | I'm copying the missing firmware files from other dirs according to an ubuntu post about my warning |
| 18:44.30 | fsmithred | and the warning went away (on update-initramfs -u) |
| 18:44.36 | fsmithred | reboot... |
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| 18:50.11 | fsmithred | no difference |
| 18:51.09 | msiism | Okay, Desktop Live has the same problem nouveau, actually. I'll need to take a screenshot and compare that to font rendering in Void. |
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| 19:01.43 | msiism | Hm⦠can't really tell. My laptop's screen just is not nearly as good as my desktop monitor. |
| 19:02.56 | msiism | Though, given the looks of xmobar there, I'm inclined to conclude font rendering is pretty nice on Void. |
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| 19:03.42 | msiism | Openbox menu suggests the same. |
| 19:06.32 | msiism | Time to try it the other way round then. Let's see how Void Live does on my desktop in terms of font rendering. |
| 19:06.53 | n4dir | i had that graphics chipset, forgot but not nvidia, which was crap on pretty much any distro, but Void handled it ok. |
| 19:07.02 | msiism | :) |
| 19:07.22 | msiism | Well, I mean I've had this machine for a while. And it always worked really well. |
| 19:07.29 | msiism | With Devuan, I mean. |
| 19:07.34 | n4dir | i seriously can't recall the reason why i gave up on Void. It does a good job. For me. |
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| 19:13.51 | msiism | n4dir: Well, xbps does have a few quirks⦠Void always makes me think of that Al Pacino quote from Heat: "It keeps me on the edge, where I gotta be." :) |
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| 19:14.14 | n4dir | lol |
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| 19:15.16 | n4dir | i really didn't do much. install, remove, upgrade. And not much of that. |
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| 21:26.22 | msiism | Okay, so, looking at the font rendering in Void on this same machine suggests this is a general problem. "Someone broke the driver", maybe. |
| 21:27.02 | numzob | yeah, i had that in debian and slackware a while back, so taht supports the "general" theory |
| 21:27.31 | msiism | I think I just gonna fix that with using different hardware. |
| 21:27.56 | numzob | yikes, i guess if that's the only way :o |
| 21:28.27 | msiism | Unforunately, the only graphic cards I have lying around are Nvidia model⦠|
| 21:28.36 | msiism | *models |
| 21:29.03 | msiism | But all are older, so maybe nouveau will support them well. |
| 21:29.33 | msiism | I would really be insterested in exactly what change causes this font rendering issue. |
| 21:30.35 | msiism | Well, everything else works really well in this system, though. Much better than on my ascii system. |
| 21:33.22 | msiism | tries something |
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| 21:56.32 | Jeybe[m] | Hey all |
| 21:57.26 | Jeybe[m] | What do you recommand for managing (wireless) network connections via GUI. DE ist Xfce |
| 21:57.37 | Jeybe[m] | * What do you recommend for managing (wireless) network connections via GUI. DE ist Xfce |
| 21:58.14 | cronolio | *is |
| 21:59.14 | fluffywolf | dunno, but I recommend not using matrix. |
| 21:59.23 | fluffywolf | I use wicd and it sucks. heh. |
| 22:12.30 | fluffywolf | warning for any ktorrent users: it breaks badly on ascii-beowulf upgrade. it decided to insist all my torrents were at a location they haven't been in in years (an old external hard drive), then totally brokenly copies them from their new location to a broken recursive directory when you try pointing it at the new ones. |
| 22:13.32 | fluffywolf | clearly they changed its config somehow, and it doesn't handle the old one correctly. |
| 22:15.18 | fluffywolf | if you point it at /home/wolfy/foo/bar/torrentname, it creates /home/wolfy/foo/bar/torrentname/foo/bar/torrentname and copies the files there. lol |
| 22:15.47 | Xenguy | Jeybe[m]: I prefer wicd for standard use cases |
| 22:15.49 | fluffywolf | I had to remove the torrents. |
| 22:16.33 | Xenguy | qbittorrent ? |
| 22:18.08 | fluffywolf | I suspect this is the result of at least three different bugs, so... about typical for anything starting with a "k". |
| 22:19.28 | fluffywolf | it also seems to have broken icons for about half the buttons, and the taskbar icon is displayed corrupted. so that's another bug... |
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| 22:30.32 | Jeybe[m] | <fluffywolf "dunno, but I recommend not using"> Do the messages don't get through correctly? |
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| 23:59.36 | bru | quit |
