| 00:08.10 | unixbsd | ok, it works. I have now a raspberry pi print server, using the printer-driver-brlaser. It is a pure debian, if you need the files, cmdline, fstab, ... and so on to get your print server. please let me know. |
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| 01:08.53 | plasma41 | unixbsd: I do my printing on a 1993 HP LaserJet 4 with JetDirect add-on card. I print by running `lpr <some-postscript-file.ps` which just opens a raw TCP socket to the printer on port 9100, transmits the postscript file, and closes the connection. |
| 01:09.56 | plasma41 | unixbsd: Modern printing by comparison is a mountain of protocols a mile high. |
| 01:10.19 | plasma41 | I like it sweet and simple. |
| 01:10.49 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:10.58 | fsmithred | HP4L |
| 01:11.22 | plasma41 | It's a workhorse, isn't it? |
| 01:11.50 | fsmithred | yeah, worst thing about it is finding parallel ports |
| 01:16.09 | plasma41 | fsmithred: That's why I'm glad I have the JetDirect add-on card. Automatic printserver. |
| 01:16.46 | plasma41 | fsmithred: For better or worse, it can be configured via telnet. :P |
| 01:17.10 | fsmithred | yikes |
| 01:17.16 | fsmithred | well, so can just about every router |
| 01:40.41 | rwp | My router is running Beowulf and does not have telnetd install. :-) |
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| 02:02.00 | Criggie | plasma41: copycat - mines a LJ 4 too, but has a parallel port jetdirect :) |
| 02:02.49 | Criggie | I got 2 Mbytes of ram too, and a page count of about 0.12 million. |
| 02:03.18 | Criggie | And no windows box newer than XP can print to it cos of driver support. |
| 02:06.06 | plasma41 | 10 Mbytes in mine. I was able to find one 8 Mbyte SIMM in my SIMM collection (yes, I have one of those) that was the right type (FPM Parity, if memory serves) to be compatible with the printer. |
| 02:08.11 | plasma41 | heh, if "memory" serves |
| 02:09.18 | Xenguy | The only printer I ever had was a Brother, and CUPS worked just fine for printing on that machine |
| 02:11.42 | plasma41 | Xenguy: I specifically taught myself how to manually configure lprng, so I could avoid having to install CUPS. CUPS is a behemoth. |
| 02:12.04 | Xenguy | Probably by comparison, sure |
| 02:12.38 | Xenguy | lpr reminds me of actual unix, and it works, no question |
| 02:12.50 | plasma41 | amen |
| 02:13.10 | Xenguy | Fortunately CUPS would mostly 'just work' for my use cases, which were simple enough |
| 02:13.20 | Criggie | hehehe I still have 4x1 Mbyte SIPPs in my box of ram |
| 02:13.46 | Xenguy | Should be enough, but heading OT 8 -D |
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| 12:04.25 | unixbsd | Hello, concerning the command SU of chimaera, how to configure Devuan to keep a normal "su" command, i.e. without having the requirement of minus symbol? (the Linux "su -" shall be "su"). In Unix/BSD we will continue to use "su". |
| 12:05.04 | n4dir | edit /etc/default/su (that is: create that file) and insert |
| 12:05.11 | n4dir | ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes |
| 12:05.36 | fsmithred | same as beowulf |
| 12:08.03 | n4dir | mocp only gives sound if starting jack. Without it, alsa only, it complaints bout not sound server found. |
| 12:08.22 | fsmithred | in beowulf? |
| 12:08.47 | n4dir | talk easy to the easy minded. I use stable. Whatever that is |
| 12:09.20 | fsmithred | stable |
| 12:09.29 | fsmithred | why do I have mdadm pinned in ceres? |
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| 12:09.34 | fsmithred | to an older version |
| 12:09.46 | n4dir | just saying: i gave up on that for debian too. For me it is stable, testing and unstable. |
| 12:10.18 | fsmithred | except for ceres, which is sid and is therefore always ceres, we're going in alphabetical order |
| 12:10.39 | n4dir | ah, always ceres. That is something i can work with |
| 12:10.42 | fsmithred | jessie was jessie. Then ascii, beowulf, chimaera, daedelus, e??? |
| 12:10.47 | n4dir | lemme quickly upgrade |
| 12:10.54 | fsmithred | to what? |
| 12:11.03 | fsmithred | you want ceres? |
| 12:11.07 | n4dir | to always be able to say ceres :-) |
| 12:11.22 | fsmithred | lol |
| 12:11.25 | n4dir | at my age i need to take it easy with my ressources of brain |
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| 12:11.32 | n4dir | no kidding, the other names confuse me |
| 12:12.20 | n4dir | Anyway, you not using mocp by any chance? |
| 12:12.32 | n4dir | It bugs me a very little to have to start jack to use mocp |
| 12:13.13 | fsmithred | I use it without jack |
| 12:13.37 | n4dir | i always did too. No clue why it complaints now. Does on the new installation too |
| 12:14.31 | n4dir | alsa is always running? |
| 12:14.44 | fsmithred | yes |
| 12:15.20 | fsmithred | did you edit a config file |
| 12:15.28 | n4dir | shit knows. ps ax | grep alsa ; gives nothing. /etc/init.d/{only-alsa-utils} |
| 12:15.51 | gnarface | well, alsa is a kernel component, so it's always available but it's inappropriate to say it's "running" as it's not a userspace process, it's essentially a collection of drivers |
| 12:15.53 | n4dir | none of that bothers me, but mocp tries jack, then alsa, then oss, then fails to start |
| 12:16.02 | fsmithred | alias it to start with -R JACK? |
| 12:16.18 | n4dir | mocp -R JACK? |
| 12:16.19 | gnarface | (so you wouldn't expect it to show up in the output of ps) |
| 12:16.20 | fsmithred | try mocp -R ALSA |
| 12:16.45 | n4dir | "cannot connect" |
| 12:17.02 | fsmithred | something else is wrong |
| 12:17.42 | gnarface | commonly permissions, paths, or plugs |
| 12:18.23 | n4dir | http://paste.debian.net/1178984/ |
| 12:18.38 | n4dir | default permissions, default path, default plugs |
| 12:18.40 | fsmithred | goober thinks I want to know about Microsoft Online Customer Protocol |
| 12:19.04 | n4dir | mv .moc moc_backup; same result |
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| 12:21.02 | fsmithred | some librazik thing interfering? |
| 12:22.11 | n4dir | wouldn't know how |
| 12:22.42 | n4dir | on the PC pretty much the only thing installed is cadence |
| 12:23.24 | n4dir | and that is not running while using moc. If it is running, then moc works |
| 12:23.48 | fsmithred | isn't there some command or package with a name like apt-changelog? |
| 12:24.09 | fsmithred | I can't find it. I think I want to use it. |
| 12:25.12 | unixbsd | Thank you for su. this is great help. this is such a marvellous idea to change all the time everything in debian - are the debian developers bored or something... |
| 12:25.13 | n4dir | apt-listchanges? |
| 12:26.37 | fsmithred | yeah, that's the command. Thanks. |
| 12:27.00 | onefang | I was just about to say that. I use it. |
| 12:27.10 | fsmithred | oh, have to run it on a .deb file |
| 12:27.15 | n4dir | did apt-cache search, no avail, then thought about apt- then hit tab. Smart me, huh? |
| 12:27.37 | onefang | "When configured as an APT plugin it will do this automatically during upgrades." |
| 12:27.40 | fsmithred | I already went to packages.debian.org to find the changelog, I read it, and I still don't know why I pinned mdadm to the older version. |
| 12:28.17 | n4dir | i wouldn't worry but unpin. |
| 12:29.04 | n4dir | less pin, less pain |
| 12:29.57 | fsmithred | yeah, I guess I'll do that and see what happens. I have 371 packages to upgrade |
| 12:30.08 | fsmithred | 372 |
| 12:32.14 | n4dir | So: log out, log in as "tester" user, mocp works perfectly fine. Once in TTY, checking: usual user can't use mocp from TTY either |
| 12:32.19 | n4dir | what the heck |
| 12:33.37 | fsmithred | weird |
| 12:33.50 | fsmithred | removing .moc should have fixed it |
| 12:34.01 | fsmithred | or is there something else hidden? |
| 12:34.05 | n4dir | if it ain't ~/.moc standing in my way, what else might it be? |
| 12:34.12 | fsmithred | check ~/.bash_aliases |
| 12:34.19 | fsmithred | check ~/.config |
| 12:34.27 | fsmithred | maybe ~/.local |
| 12:34.46 | n4dir | aliases doesn't exist. i don't do aliases. |
| 12:35.42 | n4dir | find . -iname '*moc*' only gives .moc |
| 12:36.44 | n4dir | did "rm -r .local" |
| 12:39.08 | n4dir | and i see nothing unusual in .config http://paste.debian.net/1179011/ |
| 12:40.08 | n4dir | Most easy is probably to just use moc with jack. Oh my. |
| 12:43.10 | fsmithred | ah, there was a bug in the next version, and the version after that is now available. |
| 12:43.46 | n4dir | could you use moc, then start jack, then stop jack, then use moc again? |
| 12:44.06 | n4dir | but then: pretty sure i tried it right after booting already |
| 12:45.49 | fsmithred | do I have to tell it to use jack after starting jack, or is it automatic? |
| 12:47.08 | n4dir | for me it is automatic, it seems. It tries 3 sound servers and uses the one which works firts |
| 12:47.12 | n4dir | first |
| 12:47.55 | n4dir | might relate to cadence though, as it has a alsa-jack bridge |
| 12:48.10 | fsmithred | I can't get sound with jack |
| 12:48.33 | n4dir | ha ha. Lets connect our hardware. You get jack with moc, i get alsa. win-win |
| 12:49.05 | fsmithred | audacious works with jack |
| 12:49.17 | n4dir | i wouldn't care much if jack wasn't ressource intensive. I want to stop it when not needed |
| 12:49.23 | n4dir | or not start it, when not needed. |
| 12:53.01 | fsmithred | check to see if /etc/popt exists |
| 12:53.12 | fsmithred | or ~/.popt |
| 12:53.32 | n4dir | no, doesn't. both |
| 12:54.16 | n4dir | it doesn't make any sense. All culprits are out of the way. |
| 12:54.39 | n4dir | no autostart anything. ps no cadence no jack no nothing. mv .moc. so on |
| 12:55.49 | fsmithred | stop jack and moc uses alsa again |
| 12:55.50 | n4dir | root works fine, test user works fine |
| 12:56.05 | n4dir | yeah, i thought so. And that is what it was here in the not long gone past |
| 12:56.20 | n4dir | in a fury i even did rm -r /tmp/* |
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| 12:56.51 | n4dir | well, let me mv .config config_backup too |
| 12:57.05 | n4dir | same |
| 12:58.34 | fsmithred | check for your username in any files under /etc/security/ |
| 12:58.59 | fsmithred | maybe you set some realtime stuff for your user that's interfering? |
| 12:59.02 | fsmithred | wild guess |
| 12:59.15 | n4dir | nothing |
| 12:59.31 | fsmithred | and jack only starts manually? |
| 12:59.35 | n4dir | yes |
| 12:59.36 | fsmithred | not upon login? |
| 12:59.39 | fsmithred | ok |
| 12:59.39 | n4dir | no |
| 12:59.51 | fsmithred | deluser? |
| 12:59.56 | n4dir | well: there must be something somewhere |
| 13:00.09 | fsmithred | move your home first |
| 13:00.11 | n4dir | delete the user? Nah, i can live with having to run jack |
| 13:00.19 | fsmithred | ok |
| 13:00.35 | n4dir | This bugs me, but really is a minor issue, as jack runs pretty often anyway (without much need though) |
| 13:00.36 | fsmithred | I find it annoying that moc won't use jack |
| 13:00.46 | n4dir | mainly so i don't have to configure stuff like vlc back and forth |
| 13:01.08 | n4dir | as said: i really like cadence. It makes things easy (in this case starting the alsa bridge) |
| 13:01.51 | n4dir | but then i don't even know if it uses jack or alsa. All i know that if jack is running, moc gives sound |
| 13:02.49 | n4dir | and as soon i got sound, i stop bothering to understand why i have it |
| 13:03.24 | n4dir | would love to understand it, but it is a bit too complex for me |
| 13:04.36 | fsmithred | cadence wants pulseaudio :( |
| 13:05.08 | n4dir | It has a pulse bridge too |
| 13:05.12 | n4dir | probably for that |
| 13:07.19 | n4dir | i need relief from this brain torture. later. thanks for help |
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| 15:06.31 | fsmithred | I'm getting a delay on shutdown in ceres. How do I find out what's happening in the 30-second gap between these to syslog entries? |
| 15:06.34 | fsmithred | Dec 30 14:45:25 r10lvm dbus-daemon[1426]: [system] Activating service name='org.freedesktop.login1' requested by ' |
| 15:06.34 | fsmithred | :1.1' (uid=0 pid=1474 comm="/usr/sbin/lightdm ") (using servicehelper) |
| 15:06.34 | fsmithred | Dec 30 14:45:55 r10lvm smartd[1468]: smartd received signal 15: Terminated |
| 15:07.54 | fsmithred | I suspect it may be the same cryptsetup/lvm delay that's in beowulf and ascii. I don't think the patch for that works anymore. |
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| 15:17.10 | onefang | dbus is late, wait a little longer, there will be three of them arrive at once. B-) |
| 15:19.52 | MinceR | :> |
| 15:19.58 | MinceR | or pray to G-Bus |
| 15:27.31 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
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| 15:34.09 | debdog | my experience with xfce is anything but satisfying. it certainly is not advisable for linux newbies. |
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| 15:37.07 | seabass | Hello |
| 15:37.46 | seabass | debdog, in my opinion, the configuration of xfce used by default in Xubuntu is not bad for beginners. |
| 15:38.54 | debdog | xubuwhat? |
| 15:40.48 | fsmithred | on subsequent shutdown, I don't get the dbus message, and the delay happens between havegd and smartd shutting down |
| 15:40.54 | fsmithred | I don't think it's either of those |
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| 15:41.41 | debdog | I think it was when ASCII was still stable and I set up an old Laptop for a friend. and xfce had that weird bug where the user was not able to select a custom desktop background. for a stable release this is not a showpiece. |
| 15:44.18 | fsmithred | I don't recall ever not being able to change my desktop background in xfce |
| 15:45.12 | fsmithred | I know there were some changes in the settings ui that made it confusing, but I don't remember if that started in ascii or beowulf |
| 15:46.32 | debdog | changing the background was not an issue. but loading a custom pic did not work |
| 15:46.53 | fsmithred | that's what I always do |
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| 15:47.21 | nemo | debdog: yeah, IMO XFCE lacks polish, although situation continues to improve |
| 15:47.40 | nemo | debdog: there's no strong reason to use it over MATE personally. MATE seems to be more complete/consistent/polished, and uses same amount of memory, apparently. |
| 15:48.06 | nemo | but to each their own! |
| 15:48.42 | seabass | debdog, certainly, glitches are not beginner-friendly in any way. However, I believe that the *design* of xfce isn't bad at all |
| 15:49.08 | debdog | this describes the issue I've had: https://forum.xfce.org/viewtopic.php?id=11965 "I cannot select any entries; they are all grayed out." |
| 15:49.19 | seabass | For the record, I also like LXDE and MATE so maybe I simply lack strong opinions on this topic :) |
| 15:49.22 | seabass | i |
| 15:50.21 | fsmithred | yeah, I think that post is related to the change I remember. You could no longer select images from the file-chooser. You could only select directories. |
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| 15:51.31 | seabass | I have a cron job for a script I wrote; it changes the background periodically using feh --bg-fill. |
| 15:53.54 | seabass | GUIs are very hard to get right and pretty difficult to debug, so I tend to use terminal/command-line programs as much as possible, but I really appreciate that there are so many options for DEs in general. |
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| 15:54.24 | debdog | ok, just to clarify. I am talking about devuan and xfce as the default. so I installed it on said laptop and then wasn't able to halt or reboot from within xfce. I've had to install/remove, can't remember exactly, some logind or similar packages for it to work. that's not a satisfying end-user experience. |
| 15:55.54 | debdog | and if a linux newbie is not able to even easily select a custom background, why would they think linux based OSes are much userfriendly then other proprietary OSes |
| 15:56.02 | seabass | Agreed, that's pretty awkward. However, my experience with Gentoo leads me to believe that it is logind which causes most difficulties! |
| 15:57.25 | seabass | I believe that MATE has less code that xfce, so it should be easier to debug. Not only do you get that benefit therefore but also simple interfaces are usually easier for beginners anyway. I'll have to spend more time with MATE and try to come to a conclusion with that! |
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| 17:03.44 | n4dir | audacious: ALSA error: snd_pcm_open failed: No such file or directory. |
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| 18:02.57 | DashiePie | Mate's been pretty smooth for me |
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| 18:22.37 | fsmithred | n4dir, get any output with 'lsmod | grep snd' ? |
| 18:23.08 | n4dir | shitloads |
| 18:24.03 | n4dir | there sure is a config in my home with is borked. I did mv /home/user /home/user_backup; mkdir /home/user; chwon -R user: user |
| 18:24.09 | n4dir | and had sound with mocp. |
| 18:24.30 | n4dir | Then i installed audacious, to check if another app can do alsa, and ran in said problem |
| 18:24.56 | n4dir | i hoped a different error massage might shed some light |
| 18:25.31 | n4dir | I guess i could mv /home/user like above, then cp one file at a time. Assuming i will ever be in the mood. |
| 18:28.08 | n4dir | what is ~/.asoundrc ? |
| 18:30.21 | n4dir | right. It is the culprit ! |
| 18:30.24 | n4dir | Ta-Da |
| 18:37.30 | debdog | https://www.alsa-project.org/wiki/Asoundrc |
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| 18:39.02 | n4dir | ah. Well: thanks. No clue why i have it. Or rather: had. |
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| 19:33.02 | leafwiz | Hey, I just changed the default python to python3 on my system. This broke wicd and wicd-gtk. Going into the scripts i see that it just calls python, and not python2 |
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| 19:33.30 | leafwiz | Is this something I should file a bug report on? |
| 19:52.59 | hagbard_ | Seems like a bug report to debian for wicd would be justified. |
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| 20:01.41 | fsmithred | wicd has been dropped after buster |
| 20:03.06 | hagbard_ | It's in unstable. |
| 20:03.22 | fsmithred | in ceres, not in sid |
| 20:03.37 | fsmithred | does that one work? |
| 20:05.30 | hagbard_ | leafwiz: ^ |
| 20:05.58 | fsmithred | the one in ceres is the beowulf version (devuanized) |
| 20:06.07 | hagbard_ | If not, wpa_gui would be a working alternative. |
| 20:06.25 | fsmithred | oh, maybe. I'm using network-manager in chimaera |
| 20:07.51 | hagbard_ | I use a conf file for wpa_supplicant. |
| 20:10.48 | hagbard_ | Does network-manager go along nicely with preconfigured /etc/network/interfaces and wpa_supplicant.conf? |
| 20:11.06 | fsmithred | hell, no |
| 20:11.23 | fsmithred | well, not sure about wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 20:11.41 | hagbard_ | bummer |
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| 20:27.44 | fsmithred | hagbard_, you can set a static ip address in network-manager, but it does not use the interfaces file. |
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| 20:27.56 | fsmithred | and will probably conflict with it |
| 20:28.40 | n4dir | s/probably// |
| 20:28.58 | fsmithred | you've had recent experience with that? |
| 20:29.12 | fsmithred | That's the issue that sent me to the debian forum in 2008 |
| 20:29.13 | n4dir | nah, hearsay. It is a common thing when troubleshooting |
| 20:29.54 | n4dir | perhaps was. not is. Been a while such problems were discussed somewhere i was |
| 20:30.12 | n4dir | but then it was the first problem to get out of the way |
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| 22:35.59 | leafwiz | fsmithred, I am using beowulf |
| 22:38.10 | leafwiz | I just find it a bit strange that it is set to python and not to python2 , so I'm wondering if there is something I'm not seeing |
| 22:41.27 | fsmithred | I think what you're seeing is that wicd needs to be updated to use python3 |
| 22:41.46 | fsmithred | which is why it was dropped |
| 22:41.49 | numzob | is anyone updating wicd? |
| 22:42.04 | fsmithred | not sure |
| 22:42.18 | numzob | slackware recently dropped it so I'd assumed not |
| 22:43.52 | fsmithred | the person who was maintaining the devuanized version is no longer on the project |
| 22:44.17 | numzob | ah, understood |
| 22:44.57 | fsmithred | and it was probably forked for some systemd dependency |
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| 22:51.44 | fsmithred | leafwiz, there might be a way to start it with a wrapper script or edit the init script so that it will use python2 |
| 22:53.01 | fsmithred | or do that with whatever needs python3 and set it back the way it was |
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| 23:51.02 | leafwiz | fsmithred, yeah, I changed it to #!/usr/bin/env python2, but I don't think I got all of the scripts since wicd is still a bit wonky. |
| 23:51.55 | leafwiz | Is there plans for devuan to use another networking daemon? for me its seems it default when I choose the mate environment. |
| 23:53.07 | leafwiz | Or is there another one that you would recommend? |
| 23:53.22 | leafwiz | for my devuan system running mate on beowulf |