| 00:00.48 | flrn_ | fsmithred: it seems to be lightdm, as returning to 1.26.0-4 fixes the issue. |
| 00:01.15 | fsmithred | lightdm in your configuration. Not in mine. |
| 00:01.21 | fsmithred | xfce here |
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| 08:53.55 | user___ | I've upgraded firefox these days using the beowulf apt upgrade mechanism. What should I see in firefox: Help: About: for version? |
| 08:54.13 | user___ | I see 78.5.0esr |
| 08:55.04 | user___ | The actual problem I see is, on startup ff connects to 10 (!) servers and does something with them. Most of them are google related. I do not have a google registered account or sync or anything like that. |
| 08:55.22 | user___ | What are these things? How does one turn them off? They also seem to delay startup significantly. |
| 08:56.19 | user___ | https://termbin.com/bm2zz looks like this |
| 08:56.53 | user___ | what are these things? search engine updates? I have that off, auto search engine updates. Extension updates is unlikely, I do not have that many extensions. |
| 08:57.13 | user___ | Do you also see such unexplained activity on browser startup on devuan? |
| 08:57.55 | xrogaan | 78 is the current ESR |
| 08:58.15 | user___ | aptitude etc say I have 78.5.0esr-1~deb10u1 |
| 08:58.20 | xrogaan | yes |
| 08:58.48 | user___ | so do you also see such activity on startup? |
| 08:59.20 | xrogaan | it's WAD |
| 08:59.28 | user___ | NMA |
| 09:00.41 | xrogaan | DNS, update local database for the integrated blockers, other stuff related to mozilla |
| 09:03.29 | user___ | The integrated blockers are all off, adblock extension updates it's db from elsewhere. |
| 09:03.42 | user___ | Note that a lot of the ip's in the list are Google's. |
| 09:04.09 | user___ | I'll set another default search engine and try a restart of the browser. See if then it also visits the mothership. |
| 09:04.24 | user___ | How much funding does firefox get from Google, again?... |
| 09:05.08 | xrogaan | well, this isn't mozilla's support channel. |
| 09:05.31 | xrogaan | You might want to get into contact with mozilla people if you have concerns. |
| 09:05.45 | user___ | no, but it is devuan's, whose purported firefox-from-debian package should be "cleaned" - at least I was told so by others here. |
| 09:06.21 | xrogaan | Devuan's mission is to provide a systemd free alternative to debian, nothing more. |
| 09:06.35 | clort | well put |
| 09:07.01 | user___ | After changing default search engine and restart I get the same thing, lots of googleplex addresses. |
| 09:07.56 | user___ | In what respect, exactly, does the debian .deb suplied firefox-esr differ from the upstream firefox.com installer? On devuan specifically, or in general on debian. |
| 09:09.00 | user___ | about:config google brings up oodles of stuff |
| 09:16.16 | user___ | Later I'll start ff with network completely down and see how it goes |
| 09:17.24 | clort | there are issues with firefox configuration and privacy. |
| 09:17.40 | clort | some users prefer Pale Moon browser, or Brave user___ |
| 09:18.05 | user___ | they are not issues, they are elephants. I could almost understand it calling home to firefox.com . 7 out of 10 ip's are google's. |
| 09:18.38 | xrogaan | debian disable some stuff |
| 09:18.46 | user___ | I mean, wtf, let's use Chrome instead, it may have *fewer* |
| 09:18.55 | xrogaan | check /etc/firefox-esr/firefox-esr.js |
| 09:19.03 | user___ | xrogaan: no hint of that in the README supplied with the .deb ff |
| 09:19.15 | clort | if you oh thanks xrogaan |
| 09:19.24 | user___ | thanks |
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| 09:19.48 | xrogaan | nothing much really |
| 09:20.24 | clort | yes. i'd like to prevent browser js reporting my screen resolution and bit depth to the remote site |
| 09:20.31 | clort | haven't found where to patch that out yet |
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| 09:21.14 | clort | running in a uniquely sized xephyr x session will give me a unique screensize and ID due to this design flaw |
| 09:21.23 | xrogaan | > https://sources.debian.org/src/firefox-esr/78.5.0esr-1/debian/patches/ |
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| 09:30.24 | user___ | Thanks. I don't see anything special related to my problem. |
| 09:31.25 | clort | i'll try to confirm this user___ |
| 09:31.29 | user___ | Another: on xfce wm ff has the wrong ideas about screen size, off by 70-80%. Is this a known problem? The symptom is, at 0 zoom level (1:1) which is default, pages do not render entirely in the browser window, edges are clipped. Zoom 0.8 or so fixes the size. |
| 09:31.43 | user___ | I assume xfce reports the wrong dpi to the ff. Has anyone seen this? |
| 09:31.45 | clort | what's a good way to check what servers firefox is connecting to |
| 09:31.57 | user___ | netstat -tuan |
| 09:32.27 | clort | can i limit it to the firefox process |
| 09:32.50 | user___ | not easily. |
| 09:33.07 | user___ | there's also fuser and lsof but it gets more complex. |
| 09:33.27 | clort | oh, this works |
| 09:33.30 | clort | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:33.41 | user___ | ok, good for you |
| 09:33.43 | clort | and -c for continuous |
| 09:33.45 | xrogaan | lsof |
| 09:33.45 | user___ | note that misses DNS |
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| 09:36.37 | xrogaan | lsof -p $(pgrep firefox) | grep IPv (or something) |
| 09:37.20 | clort | i can confirm, on start without loading anything, firefox opens connections to 34.107.221.82 and other google servers |
| 09:37.37 | xrogaan | yeah, geoip is a google service |
| 09:38.20 | clort | it also conacts 44.241.230.182 amazon without me opening a page |
| 09:39.48 | xrogaan | nevermind my lsof, it's bogus |
| 09:39.52 | clort | how can i prevent this |
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| 09:42.45 | xrogaan | you can't |
| 09:44.02 | xrogaan | https://privacytools.io/browsers/ |
| 09:47.09 | clort | pale moon doesn't do these shenanigans |
| 09:47.44 | xrogaan | `lsof -p $(pgrep -d, -f firefox-esr) | grep IPv` list all active connections |
| 09:47.48 | xrogaan | or should |
| 09:48.44 | clort | nice copied to notes |
| 09:50.13 | xrogaan | I'd recommend reading the manpage |
| 09:50.15 | clort | ok after a minute or two idle, palemoon started opening connections |
| 09:50.49 | clort | i've read the lsof manpage |
| 09:50.55 | clort | i don't remember it |
| 09:51.10 | clort | some of us don't have good memory |
| 09:52.36 | clort | if i could remember what i read, I would be a completely different being |
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| 10:12.04 | user___ | Just for laughs, installed vivaldi .deb from vivaldi.com - after disabling all google related things in menus, still connects to google (one thread) and opens 2 pcs mDNS udp server sockets on the machine it is run on. |
| 10:12.47 | user___ | Oh and they are open on the multicast ip range not on the normal ip |
| 10:12.55 | user___ | 224.0.0.251 etc |
| 10:14.21 | user___ | relevant: https://forum.vivaldi.net/post/138093 |
| 10:14.29 | user___ | So at least one can try to firewall it out. |
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| 10:43.56 | xrogaan | if you block ipv4 for chromium, it'll fail to load regular websites but still connects to google through ipv6 (if available) |
| 10:44.15 | user___ | right. |
| 10:44.26 | user___ | I wonder how much effort it takes to make ff tor trained. |
| 10:44.54 | user___ | Probably a lot. And every time there's a new release out there'll be a busy period neutering it for tor compliance. |
| 10:45.08 | user___ | I do not normally use tor but I am interested in the technical aspects. |
| 10:46.08 | user___ | Sort of punny that one needs a properly set up openwrt box as firewall in front of any "secure" modern browser. Just saying. |
| 10:51.42 | enyc | meows |
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| 10:55.27 | onefang | Is that a support meow, or an off topic meow? B-) |
| 10:56.30 | user___ | a meow is a polite roar |
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| 14:28.31 | user___ | Is there an android emulator able to run APKs somewhere in beowulf? |
| 14:29.14 | clort | there's anbox |
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| 14:38.18 | user___ | anbox requires kvm right? |
| 14:39.03 | clort | i don't know it |
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| 14:46.13 | user___ | it's not so simple, requires a lot of post install work https://superuser.com/questions/1209814/how-to-install-anbox-on-a-pure-debian-system -- but eventually it should work. |
| 14:49.03 | clort | thanks for the link |
| 14:50.24 | clort | if you have some non-malware apk to test with, maybe one that even does something useful, let us know how it goes user___ |
| 14:51.22 | user___ | I won't spend time on it now, this system has no room for that. Old machine. Some day. |
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| 16:05.54 | user___ | Vivaldi's Chrome plays nice with a lot of web assembler I just tried out online vs firefox which sometimes displays a jumbled screen. Since Vivaldi is not open source, I assume there is no hope for it to be spliced into a debian package stream, right? I mean, they provide a .deb, which I installed, but it's not "reachable" with the usual package managers? |
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| 17:08.40 | user___ | ? |
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| 17:49.40 | enyc | meows |
| 17:57.12 | MinceR | meows |
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| 18:19.44 | user___ | ubuntu 20 would be compatible with what debian version? Don't know where to look |
| 18:20.51 | enyc | user___: ubuntu 20.04 LTS is newer than debian buster 10 / Devuan Beowulf |
| 18:21.06 | user___ | ok |
| 18:21.14 | enyc | user___: ubuntu 20.10 is newer again but not lts |
| 18:21.27 | golinux | It would be our chimaera. No there are no isos yet. |
| 18:21.50 | enyc | user___: debian *usually* comes about around half-way between ubuntu-LTS releases, seemingly |
| 18:23.18 | fsmithred | check linux and libc6 versions at distowatch |
| 18:24.34 | enyc | user___: also depends what you MEAN by ''compatible'' |
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| 18:28.16 | user___ | "will run a random .deb meant for 20.10" - answer is no |
| 18:28.58 | enyc | user___: sometimes a tool "alien" can help |
| 18:29.23 | systemdlete | Generating grub configuration file ... |
| 18:29.36 | enyc | user___: you can proabbly/often install an ubuntu chroot atop devuan, and not be running systemd init.... |
| 18:30.15 | enyc | user___: if you have the deb src package it can be not too troublesome to dpkg-buildpackage the package on debian/devuan |
| 18:30.16 | systemdlete | (I do have lvm2, but there is no "pv1" on my system) |
| 18:30.39 | systemdlete | wtf... missed a post here.. |
| 18:30.55 | systemdlete | the error is "Generating grub configuration file ... |
| 18:31.28 | systemdlete | oh... it's the leading slash |
| 18:31.41 | systemdlete | let me paste this... |
| 18:33.37 | systemdlete | http://paste.debian.net/1175754/ |
| 18:35.03 | systemdlete | I AM using lvm, but I don't have any physical volume named "pv1" so I am not sure if this is going to essentially destroy my system upon reboot. I am concerned because I do use encryption, and I don't know if this might be an issue during boot (it asks for crypt pass phrase) |
| 18:36.23 | user___ | enyc: do not have the src. It is a nonfree package from sourceforge. I installed the win64 version under wine on beowulf, runs. |
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| 18:36.54 | user___ | I am wrong, it is GPL2 https://sourceforge.net/projects/picsim/ |
| 18:37.25 | user___ | note that thing sims various mcu boards and bare mcu's not just pics, the name is a misnomer |
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| 18:40.24 | enyc | user___: I can understand developmental software only being tested on latest, or so |
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| 19:04.44 | dzhigit | libgnome-desktop-3-dev has a dependency on libsystemd-dev instead of libelogind-dev |
| 19:05.32 | clort | anybody feel like making a devuan image for the khadas vim3? (Aarch64) |
| 19:06.00 | systemdlete | I was able to reboot, but that is a frightening message. |
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| 19:38.59 | user___ | idly notes firefox when not logged into google provides by default "safe" search results, i.e. you're missing out. Switch to duckduck... |
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| 20:48.14 | enyc | OooOooOOoo debian 10.7 released |
| 20:48.20 | enyc | 5.9 kernel backported |
| 20:48.32 | enyc | see how this filters into devuan |
| 20:48.50 | user___ | expects mayhem and systemd dependent led front panel lights |
| 20:51.51 | tuxd3v | enyc, the next LTS is 5.10.x will be out this month |
| 20:54.21 | enyc | tuxd3v: hrrm, in kernel-land or debian-land ? |
| 20:54.22 | tuxd3v | I don't know about the next next LTS but maybe the scheme will change |
| 20:54.31 | enyc | scheme change? howso? |
| 20:54.47 | tuxd3v | the linux kernel decided that 5.10.x is the next LTS |
| 20:55.21 | tuxd3v | people were thinking that 5.9.x would be the next LTS due to the previous scheme used, but scheme maybe changed.. |
| 20:56.13 | enyc | tuxd3v: what was the scheme? |
| 20:56.32 | tuxd3v | enyc, well I believe Greg Kroah-Hartman what the one who took the decision |
| 20:56.46 | tuxd3v | previously you had a LTS at each 5 releases |
| 20:57.07 | tuxd3v | so current LTS is 5.4, next would be 5.9 |
| 20:57.18 | enyc | tuxd3v: i see |
| 20:57.20 | tuxd3v | but he decided next will be 5.10 |
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| 20:57.48 | enyc | I recall reading the story about why 2.6.32 became LTS/used in so many distros at once |
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| 20:58.48 | tuxd3v | so maybe the scheme will change to 6 releases between LTS, but I don't know.. |
| 20:59.32 | tuxd3v | enyc, you it were yet in the time were kernels had a x.y.z versioning :) |
| 21:02.19 | enyc | tuxd3v: i started with slackware 7 and k 2.2.13 |
| 21:02.56 | gnarface | probably time for someone to make some safety forks |
| 21:03.10 | gnarface | i recommend backing up some of those older kernels |
| 21:03.31 | enyc | gnarface: what do you mean? |
| 21:03.39 | gnarface | *these older kernels (i'm more referring to the recent 4.x and 5.x builds) |
| 21:03.55 | gnarface | actually i request that all of you can, do |
| 21:04.02 | gnarface | one day i may ask you for that backup |
| 21:04.12 | gnarface | get the source too |
| 21:04.16 | gnarface | (obviously) |
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| 21:04.59 | gnarface | enyc: maybe i'm just an old man but i got a cold chill when i heard the first linux releases without linus were coming out |
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| 21:07.05 | golinux | gnarface: Yes, the ship is sinking . . . |
| 21:07.32 | golinux | telmich: Nice to have you hanging around here |
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| 21:11.41 | clort | we could really use a new kernel for jetson nano. the 4.9.140 still has the horrible dirty buffers problem when doing large block file copies |
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| 21:12.16 | gnarface | that one you might have to build yourself |
| 21:13.01 | gnarface | unless you're gonna donate a jetson nano to the dev team |
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| 21:39.01 | tuxd3v | clort, uboot has support for the motherboard of jetson nano 'p3450-0000_defconfig' |
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| 21:40.34 | tuxd3v | 'p3450-0000_defconfig' is the carrier board for the tetson nano module :) |
| 21:42.12 | tuxd3v | linux mainline also has a dts file for it :) |
| 21:42.16 | tuxd3v | 'tegra210-p3450-0000.dts' |
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| 21:43.12 | tuxd3v | I don't know if the Graphics driver comes in a separated package, or if comes embeded inside the l4t nvidia linux.. |
| 21:44.08 | tuxd3v | it needs to have a userspace driver too, for sure there should exist, a nvidia installation package for the graphics driver |
| 21:44.32 | tuxd3v | err. tetson -> jetson :D |
| 21:45.01 | tuxd3v | its freezing here, even with active thermal equipment its not soft :) |
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| 21:55.59 | tuxd3v | gnarface is right, without a board is very dificult to do things.. if it was very trivial, and we knew 100% of support were already in mainline projects, we could just compile them but there seems to be always gotchas here and there, so we need to test :( |
| 21:57.03 | Xenguy | I should unmount a USB drive before I dd an ISO to it, right? |
| 21:57.14 | tuxd3v | right |
| 21:57.19 | tuxd3v | :) |
| 21:57.38 | Xenguy | Thanks, I must write that down, as for some reason I can never remember |
| 21:59.03 | tuxd3v | the nice thing of devuan Chanel's is that you find somewhere. sooner or later. someone that knows about something.. :) |
| 22:00.09 | tuxd3v | you should unmount, because that garanteed that nothing is writing to that partition or disk, or have some locks in some files.. |
| 22:00.09 | Xenguy | 2 heads are better than 1, I've heard : -) |
| 22:00.17 | tuxd3v | correct :) |
| 22:00.43 | Xenguy | Actually I find that about IRC in general these days... |
| 22:01.25 | Xenguy | At least on the tech IRC channels, everyone seems to have left IRC except the smartest tech folk... |
| 22:01.45 | enyc | Xenguy: also be very careful with dd =) |
| 22:01.52 | enyc | Xenguy: can easily overwrite/destroy wrong device! |
| 22:01.52 | Xenguy | Which is great really, it's like the reverse of Usenet's "eternal September" 8 -) |
| 22:02.13 | tuxd3v | IRC is still the best place for support by far |
| 22:02.27 | enyc | not uncommon to see matrix used, bridged to IRC |
| 22:02.27 | Xenguy | enyc: For sure, caution is your friend when messing with partitions, hah |
| 22:02.30 | tuxd3v | see the advice of enyc above :) |
| 22:03.21 | Xenguy | I'm keeping one eye on Matrix |
| 22:03.34 | Xenguy | Haven't dipped my toe in yet though |
| 22:04.47 | enyc | Xenguy: no me neither, have "Signal" working.... |
| 22:05.04 | Xenguy | That's a good one too I think |
| 22:05.40 | enyc | Xenguy: Foss but central directory and USA-ownership, BUT good team and properties *at the moment* |
| 22:06.07 | enyc | Seems to be easiest to get others into compared to many |
| 22:06.26 | Xenguy | Fair point |
| 22:10.49 | enyc | but I too should dip into matrix! |
| 22:16.19 | golinux | I couldn't figure out matrix. No surprise there. |
| 22:17.24 | onefang | Alas I can no longer use Signal on the desktop. With my new desktop and Beowulf install, it wants to relink to the phone, but the phone camera is out of focus so it never sees the QR code. Wish there was another way to link. Never got an answer from Signal support. |
| 22:19.15 | user___ | how can the phone camera be out of focus all the time. Grab a magnifier of a short sighted person's glasses and hold one lens in front of the phone's camera. |
| 22:20.57 | onefang | Dunno, it's been out of focus for a while. Might be a scratch on the lens or something. When using camera apps, I see it trying to focus, going into focus, then going out of focus and staying that way. |
| 22:21.50 | onefang | I'm short sighted, I'll try that sometime later. Though for now, the only important person on SIgnal has been moved to my own XMPP server. |
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| 23:22.50 | Xenguy | .oO(Windows10, your days are numbered, on this laptop, mwuhahaha ...) |
| 23:23.15 | Xenguy | sharpens the knife... |
| 23:23.55 | Xenguy | .oO(A glint, a glance of steel...) |
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