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| 01:25.16 | mexon | Hello all, I was wondering if anyone can recommend somewhere where I can find a comprehensive guide on sysvinit. I've searched around and all I can find are snippets of info here and there. I'm looking for an old-school beginning to end book/tutorial sort of thing about the init system. Thanks |
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| 01:29.03 | gnarface | mexon: if they haven't taken it down, the wiki pages for debian wheezy and earlier on the matter were the simplest condensation of it i recall seeing |
| 01:29.49 | gnarface | mexon: it's actually not as complex of a thing as it seems |
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| 01:30.14 | gnarface | mexon: (devuan hasn't really changed this part) |
| 01:30.46 | mexon | Thanks, maybe I'll check on archive.org.. I get that its not uber complex, but I like understanding things fully not just partially |
| 01:32.01 | mexon | For example, I understand about the run-levels what I don't get is what determines the order in which the scripts are executed.. |
| 01:34.07 | gnarface | mexon: you want a reference for the "LSB headers" |
| 01:34.27 | gnarface | mexon: (they look like comments, but there's a block of active logic amongst the header comments of most these init scripts) |
| 01:35.38 | gnarface | mexon: second layer, overrides, are the symlinks in the rc?.d directories (somewhat intuitively named with "K" and "S" first-letters for start/kill, and numeric order identifiers, but the LSB headers take precedent if present) |
| 01:35.50 | gnarface | mexon: (try this: ls -l /etc/rc?.d/) |
| 01:36.32 | mexon | right!, gotcha |
| 01:37.12 | gnarface | mexon: there's a tool called "update-rc.d" (check "man update-rc.d") built-in for automating manipulating the shell scripts, but i don't know of any good tools for manipulating the LSB headers in an automated fashion. they were all meant to be hand-managed |
| 01:37.44 | gnarface | mexon: *symlinks i mean. update-rc.d just manipulates those /etc/rc?.d/ symlinks |
| 01:38.21 | mexon | okay, really appreciate the info, I have a starting point to go from now.. |
| 01:38.35 | gnarface | mexon: and each symlink just points to a script in /etc/init.d/ that has an obligation to have certain default behaviors when responding to "start" and "stop" as command-line parameters, ec |
| 01:38.45 | gnarface | mexon: and no problem |
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| 01:39.20 | gnarface | mexon: there's not much else to it than just what i've mentioned. there's an /etc/inittab that runs first. |
| 01:39.53 | n4dir | wondering about /etc/init.d/.depend.boot. But not that much |
| 01:40.20 | mexon | I came into linux during the transition.. Well I was there before but still very new to it all. Now I realise that I have a whole gap of knowledge here and so I'm filling in the blanks. So this has really been helpful. |
| 01:40.50 | gnarface | n4dir: interesting, haven't noticed those before. i have to imagine it's to do with package management? |
| 01:41.18 | n4dir | well, such sure is beyond me, but looking at it it might be a reasonable order to start what when |
| 01:41.25 | gnarface | n4dir: i'm not sure but those might be package preinst/postinst scripts and such |
| 01:41.33 | n4dir | I checked inittab, then manpages, and then ran in said file i never heard of before |
| 01:42.00 | n4dir | i usually start or stop with /etc/init.d/stuff.d start/stop, and for permanent just use sysv-rc-conf |
| 01:42.17 | gnarface | no they're not package preinst/postinst scripts actually |
| 01:43.00 | n4dir | the question asked by mexon sure is interesting, else i wouldn't have checked if i could figure out. But usually it just works via magic |
| 01:43.12 | gnarface | although it might just be cached data of what the LSB headers are implying, now that i'm looking at it closer |
| 01:43.52 | n4dir | at least something where i think: if i had the interest, i *could* understand it. That is not the case for systemd |
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| 02:05.31 | fsmithred | I saved a copy of Debian Adminstrator's Handbook for Wheezy: https://www.ibiblio.org/refracta/docs/debian-handbook-wheezy.pdf |
| 02:07.50 | gnarface | oh neat |
| 02:07.53 | gnarface | he's gone already though |
| 02:07.57 | gnarface | bummer |
| 02:08.00 | fsmithred | yeah, too bad |
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| 02:46.48 | EHeM | I'll have to say, some of the issues `systemd` is pointing towards *are* issues, though `systemd` is the wrong solution (yes, rather a lot of things disolve in acids or bases). |
| 02:48.08 | EHeM | One thing I would like to do to traditional `init`, add the ability to include files/directories into inittab. |
| 02:50.56 | EHeM | Then if you desired, when you plugged in a USB-serial cable, `eudev` could add a /run/inittab.d/ttyUSB0.getty file which simply added a respawning `getty` process (perhaps a silly example, but I needed an example). |
| 02:53.52 | MinceR | sounds like what xinetd did to inetd :> |
| 02:54.30 | MinceR | (except its files were managed by the package manager) |
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| 03:19.55 | EHeM | MinceR: I'm pretty sure xinetd had rather different goals; here I'm simply pointing out that `systemd` does have some points, even if the implementation was crap. |
| 03:27.06 | MinceR | :> |
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| 04:40.06 | enyc | meows |
| 04:41.45 | MinceR | meows |
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| 05:22.27 | EHeM | gnarface: I should have actually directly responded to what you stated. |
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| 05:23.34 | EHeM | gnarface: SuSE has gone 100% U-Boot/GRUB/UEFI, a consistent platform means they can target many different types of hardware while merely changing the lowest layer. |
| 05:24.24 | EHeM | https://www.suse.com/media/article/UEFI_on_Top_of_U-Boot.pdf |
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| 08:18.19 | unixbsd | After installing apt-get install kde-standard on a clean system, there is no wireless working. Right click on wifi, enter key wpa, will result in prompot of root pass. |
| 08:18.31 | unixbsd | Once you enter the root pass, it asks again,,.... in a loop |
| 08:19.05 | unixbsd | So kde has no wireless working on devuan. debootstrap the base, apt-get install kde-standard, gives no wifi. |
| 08:37.33 | gnarface | missing a network management utility not sure why or which one, but i'm sure it can be installed manually |
| 08:37.41 | gnarface | kde might use network-manager |
| 08:38.47 | gnarface | hmmm, or maybe not |
| 08:38.52 | gnarface | maybe it uses something else |
| 08:39.01 | gnarface | i always forget |
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| 08:47.16 | Deknos | is anyone aware, if i can set a device with nmcli in unmanaged mode? i only see it in the network-manager config file |
| 08:57.38 | gnarface | i don't know, the man page doesn't say? |
| 08:58.38 | gnarface | you should be able to with ifconfig or iwconfig, if you mean what i think |
| 09:06.19 | Deknos | nmcli manages dhcp requests and stuff like that. ifconfig and iwconfig do not care about that, do they? |
| 09:14.02 | gnarface | i wasn't aware unmanaged mode had anything to do with dhcp |
| 09:14.10 | gnarface | you don't mean wireless ad-hoc networking? |
| 09:17.37 | gnarface | the dhcp client is what actually handls dhcp requests |
| 09:17.47 | gnarface | wpasupplicant has something to do with it all too, probably |
| 09:17.56 | gnarface | (if this is wireless) |
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| 17:01.15 | kreyren | howddya get audio jack working on devuan chimaera? x.x |
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| 17:03.37 | fsmithred | kreyren, do you mean the physical mini-jack or do you mean jackd the sound server? |
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| 17:05.13 | kreyren | i mean the 3.3mm jack connector on the size of my notebook >.> |
| 17:05.56 | kreyren | apparently i need alsa things O.o |
| 17:06.01 | fsmithred | if pulseaudio is installed... |
| 17:06.02 | fsmithred | oh |
| 17:06.10 | kreyren | pulseaudio is installed |
| 17:06.21 | fsmithred | you do need alsa-utils installed |
| 17:06.23 | kreyren | i was using it for my logitech G533 that broke so i am using the backup x.x |
| 17:06.36 | kreyren | is installing alsa-utils |
| 17:06.46 | fsmithred | see /etc/pulse/something 00-autospawn-something |
| 17:06.55 | fsmithred | or look at beowulf release notes |
| 17:07.09 | fsmithred | without systemd, pulseaudio won't start by default |
| 17:07.31 | fsmithred | you have to comment or uncomment one line in the config file. It tells you in the comments. |
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| 17:08.36 | kreyren_ | got tor dc |
| 17:08.40 | kreyren_ | fsmithred, alsa-utils installed |
| 17:09.18 | kreyren_ | kreyren@leonid:~$ sudo alsactl init |& ix |
| 17:09.20 | kreyren_ | http://ix.io/2EYq |
| 17:09.34 | kreyren_ | and i don't seem them in pavucontrol x.x |
| 17:12.50 | kreyren_ | is slowly loosing him mind as his previous headphones have only one working reproductor~ |
| 17:18.08 | fsmithred | aplay -l |
| 17:18.14 | fsmithred | which card is first? |
| 17:18.40 | fsmithred | is pulseaudio actually running and does pavucontrol run correctly, or is it giving you an error message or hanging? |
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| 17:39.08 | kreyren_ | kreyren@leonid:~$ aplay -l |& ix |
| 17:39.08 | kreyren_ | http://ix.io/2EYK |
| 17:39.10 | kreyren_ | fsmithred, ^ |
| 17:39.25 | kreyren_ | pulseaudio is running |
| 17:39.41 | kreyren_ | pavucontrol was reliable so far in terms of G533 and they are working on that |
| 17:39.53 | kreyren_ | i don't see any errors |
| 17:41.00 | kreyren_ | ah works now! |
| 17:41.03 | kreyren_ | thanku fsmithred <3 |
| 17:41.03 | clort | bring patience to linux sound |
| 17:41.42 | kreyren_ | it's so nice to hear from both ears again~ |
| 18:00.41 | Soltis | Sidegraded Debian 10 to Ceres; no special config aside from that - cron is not emailing root or anywhere else when jobs fail. |
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| 18:06.13 | Wafficus | Hi there, I have a question about adding a user to the 'sudo' list. I installed the 'sudo' command through 'apt' on Devuan, and I did: usermod -aG sudo sam |
| 18:06.45 | Wafficus | yet when I'm present as the 'sam' user, its still saying: 'sam is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported' |
| 18:06.59 | Wafficus | do I have to reboot the machine for the 'sudo' group changes to take into effect? |
| 18:07.35 | n4dir | log out and back in, iirc |
| 18:09.06 | gnarface | Wafficus: i don't think that sudoers line is uncommented in the default sudo config file. you should double check. |
| 18:09.52 | gnarface | Wafficus: but in my memory i was pretty sure debian leaves that commented-out in the stock config |
| 18:10.20 | Wafficus | yeah I uncommented that section in the /etc/sudoers as well |
| 18:10.27 | Wafficus | but I just restarted and will see if it took into effect |
| 18:10.31 | Wafficus | get the feeling a reboot is necessary |
| 18:10.40 | gnarface | no, but logging out all the way would be |
| 18:10.57 | gnarface | and if you're using a graphical login manager, it might need to be restarted, but not the whole kernel |
| 18:11.02 | Wafficus | I rebooted anyway |
| 18:11.03 | gnarface | sudoers operates in userspace |
| 18:11.08 | Wafficus | but still same thing happens |
| 18:11.08 | gnarface | shouldn't hurt anything either |
| 18:11.09 | Wafficus | more so |
| 18:11.14 | Wafficus | poweroff doesn't work either even as root |
| 18:11.18 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 18:11.19 | Wafficus | I literally have to go to /sbin/shutdown -r now |
| 18:11.25 | Wafficus | to do that action |
| 18:11.32 | Wafficus | that's another weird quirk I noticed |
| 18:11.32 | gnarface | can you paste your sudoers file? |
| 18:11.34 | fsmithred | elogind/libpam-elogind? |
| 18:11.38 | Wafficus | yeah sure one sec |
| 18:11.47 | gnarface | seems like you might be missing something though, yea |
| 18:12.09 | gnarface | the thing about poweroff buttons not working sounds like a permissions backend package thing |
| 18:12.12 | fsmithred | and/or policykit-1-gnome (for shutdown buttons) |
| 18:12.18 | Wafficus | wait weird, I had an /etc/sudoers file before... |
| 18:12.19 | fsmithred | buttons/menu |
| 18:12.24 | Wafficus | BEFORE I did the usermod command |
| 18:12.26 | Wafficus | now when I go to /etc |
| 18:12.30 | Wafficus | the sudoers file is blank :/ |
| 18:12.33 | Wafficus | what in the heck |
| 18:13.13 | Wafficus | does that usermod command overwrite the /etc/sudoers file when it adds a person to the group? |
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| 18:14.05 | fsmithred | no way would usermod mess with sudoers |
| 18:14.12 | Wafficus | hmm it says /etc/sudoers is not readable |
| 18:14.15 | Wafficus | idk why that is |
| 18:14.24 | Wafficus | when I originally opened it it said it was readonly in Vim |
| 18:14.34 | Wafficus | so I did :w! to save my changes as root anyway before |
| 18:14.38 | fsmithred | you did 'visudo'? |
| 18:14.38 | Wafficus | now its corrupted i'm guessing, not sure why |
| 18:14.40 | Wafficus | so |
| 18:14.42 | Wafficus | *no |
| 18:14.51 | fsmithred | that's why read-only |
| 18:15.10 | gnarface | Wafficus: for the future, there are several good reasons why they say never use anything other than visudo. i happen to know you can safely use other editors for the visudo command besides vi, but do use it. |
| 18:15.11 | fsmithred | you can also put your own sudo configs in a file in /etc/sudoers.d/ |
| 18:15.26 | fsmithred | and you don't need to use visudo for those files |
| 18:15.26 | gnarface | yea or this^ |
| 18:16.19 | gnarface | unless my my memory is wrong, visudo will obey the $EDITOR environment variable |
| 18:16.52 | gnarface | (i like to switch mg for vi) |
| 18:17.13 | gnarface | (in general for EDITOR - i typically don't use sudo though) |
| 18:20.58 | Wafficus | so in a case like this... |
| 18:21.08 | Wafficus | do I have to reinstall Devuan to get back my /etc/sudoers file |
| 18:21.10 | Wafficus | ? |
| 18:22.22 | fsmithred | just reinstall sudo |
| 18:23.17 | Wafficus | ok I uninstalled sudo via apt |
| 18:23.19 | Wafficus | and reinstalled it |
| 18:23.29 | Wafficus | though 'visudo: command not found' |
| 18:23.38 | Wafficus | do you also have to install the 'visudo' command as well? |
| 18:25.30 | gnarface | probably |
| 18:25.49 | gnarface | also, when you uninstall stuff, add "--purge" |
| 18:25.57 | gnarface | (that way it'll blast out conflicting/old configs) |
| 18:27.05 | Wafficus | yeah even visudo isn't still found when I reinstall after purging |
| 18:27.09 | Wafficus | I think I'll just reinstall Devuan |
| 18:27.28 | fsmithred | that's overkill |
| 18:27.30 | Wafficus | visudo comes by default with sudo |
| 18:27.41 | gnarface | well, only you know at this point if you've done enough damage to it to really need a full reinstall |
| 18:27.42 | fsmithred | I've never had to install it separately |
| 18:27.46 | fsmithred | it=visudo |
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| 18:28.28 | gnarface | you shouldn't need to reinstall the whole OS just because you botched your sudoers file though. that is a sign of something much bigger wrong with the install, some prior damage not yet covered by this conversation |
| 18:28.50 | gnarface | (usually it means you mixed repos you shouldn't have) |
| 18:29.15 | gnarface | (though sometimes this happens on unstable or testing occasionally just due to upstream fuckups) |
| 18:29.23 | Wafficus | honestly |
| 18:29.37 | Wafficus | I just want the Devuan box to be up and running ASAP so I can get my Gentoo VM installed again and to tweak that |
| 18:29.44 | Wafficus | so yeah I'll just reinstall it, will take up to 5 mins tops |
| 18:30.05 | Wafficus | I don't have time to spend all day just to fix sudoers file that just won't fix itself at this point |
| 18:30.21 | Wafficus | I don't have any data on that drive anyway since its just a VM type drive so yeah, will see if a reinstall works instead |
| 18:30.23 | gnarface | as long as you got the bandwidth and you're just needing a minimal install, i have to admit it's probably faster than figuring out what you did. but at some point you're gonna want to figure out how to stop doing it again. |
| 18:30.57 | gnarface | i'd estimate the fastest install time to be around 20 minutes though |
| 18:31.04 | gnarface | 5 might be a bit unrealistic |
| 18:31.12 | gnarface | don't fool yourself |
| 18:31.44 | n4dir | I'd say one cigarette, preparing a coffee and visiting the ladies room is enough time |
| 18:31.58 | n4dir | hitting the enter key in between though |
| 18:32.58 | Wafficus | if you knew how minimal I keep my setups |
| 18:33.02 | Wafficus | literally only use AwesomeWM and Openbox |
| 18:33.14 | n4dir | most do that |
| 18:33.20 | Wafficus | after I get it installed, its just a matter of doing a quick apt install with all of the components in my install guide |
| 18:33.22 | Wafficus | not hard at all |
| 18:33.42 | Wafficus | but yeah I guess, don't edit the stupid (F#$(!) /etc/sudoers file is what I learned |
| 18:33.44 | Wafficus | not a prob |
| 18:33.54 | Wafficus | will just do visudo and hopefully that works instead |
| 18:34.03 | Wafficus | rather I will probably just do |
| 18:34.07 | n4dir | one idea might be to backkup all of /etc after the setup is finished |
| 18:34.08 | Wafficus | usermod -aG sudo sam |
| 18:34.30 | Wafficus | maybe, but again, I just wanna get back to working on my Gentoo VM to move that forward |
| 18:34.39 | Wafficus | so that I can live in Gentoo and move over in 6 months |
| 18:34.44 | Wafficus | I only use Devuan as the hub for VM's on that drive anyway |
| 18:34.53 | Wafficus | via kvm + virt-manager * |
| 18:36.55 | gnarface | really, back up /etc if nothing else |
| 18:36.59 | gnarface | it takes up almost no space |
| 18:37.10 | gnarface | that'll save your ass so many times |
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| 18:38.02 | Wafficus | gotcha, will do later on my external HDD |
| 18:40.18 | n4dir | i ususally put it in /root . Forgot it for this install, checked, and it's 8.8 MB |
| 18:40.44 | n4dir | why /root ? Well: as there is nothing else, no need to hunt for it :-) |
| 18:41.26 | fsmithred | 10 minute install from live-iso |
| 18:41.38 | n4dir | ha ha. And that is even long, i guess |
| 18:41.40 | fsmithred | no idea how you do a 5-minute install |
| 18:41.43 | gnarface | not bad |
| 18:41.45 | n4dir | I remove a bit beofre i install |
| 18:41.55 | gnarface | 5-minute install, if possible, would require a local mirror and a preseeding file |
| 18:42.04 | r3boot | 23 |
| 18:42.18 | fsmithred | I should play with overlays sometime and figure out how to do a minimal or full install from the same iso |
| 18:42.59 | n4dir | overlay? |
| 18:44.00 | gnarface | n4dir: live images use mask overlays in the filesystem |
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| 18:44.14 | gnarface | n4dir: conceptually it's like a mask overlay in photoshop, but you know... with files |
| 18:44.34 | gnarface | metaphorically it's like a mask |
| 18:45.25 | Wafficus | base install is 5 mins tops, idk what you guys are talking about |
| 18:45.33 | Wafficus | its the min install ISO though |
| 18:45.43 | n4dir | gnarface: thanks a lot for trying, but it looks such is above me |
| 18:45.44 | gnarface | Wafficus: you might just have a really fast machine? |
| 18:46.39 | gnarface | n4dir: the implementation is still above me, too, but it's a way to transparently combine multiple partial installs (some of them being read-only) into something that looks like a single complete install to the kernel |
| 18:47.28 | n4dir | that sounds even worse than metaphysics. :-) |
| 18:47.31 | fsmithred | n4dir, you know how a persistent partition in a live-usb has the structure of the whole filesystem but only contains the files that have been changed? |
| 18:47.47 | n4dir | oh, yeah, kinda. |
| 18:47.50 | fsmithred | it overlays those changed files on top of the read-only filesystem |
| 18:48.07 | n4dir | ok. I think i understand |
| 18:48.09 | fsmithred | so get to boot with your changed settings |
| 18:48.28 | fsmithred | the original files are invisible, covered by the edited ones |
| 18:48.53 | fsmithred | my thought would be to have one overlay for a minimal system and another that adds the desktop system |
| 18:49.04 | n4dir | uhum. |
| 18:49.05 | fsmithred | boot the one you want to use or install |
| 18:49.06 | gnarface | i think it's a good idea |
| 18:49.12 | fsmithred | the instaler just installs whatever is running |
| 18:49.18 | gnarface | ooh, i wonder if you could tie the layers to the runlevels |
| 18:49.28 | gnarface | how neat would that be? |
| 18:49.41 | gnarface | get a whole new rootfs for every runlevel |
| 18:49.47 | fsmithred | not sure if that would work, but it might |
| 18:50.00 | gnarface | i'm not aware of the load implications of swtiching on the fly like that |
| 18:50.09 | gnarface | seems like it could be a neat trick if it wasn't slow though |
| 18:50.10 | fsmithred | normally you control persistent partition mounts with live-config options |
| 18:50.23 | fsmithred | or live-boot options |
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| 18:50.43 | fsmithred | and whatever you put in persistence.conf |
| 18:51.06 | fsmithred | there are some advanced things you can do with it, but I've never tried them |
| 18:51.15 | n4dir | may i ask the following: what would be the advantage over either stay in TTY, or startx a WM, or use a full DE? |
| 18:51.28 | fsmithred | personal preference |
| 18:51.42 | gnarface | well |
| 18:51.53 | gnarface | those options also incrementally decrease in security |
| 18:52.01 | fsmithred | lol, yeah |
| 18:52.05 | gnarface | but most people would consider that secondary for desktop use |
| 18:52.27 | Wafficus | ok |
| 18:52.29 | Wafficus | now we're back in |
| 18:52.33 | Wafficus | in the TTY prompt |
| 18:52.36 | Wafficus | so yeah about 5 to 10 mins |
| 18:52.42 | Wafficus | fine I was maybe boasting earlier ;) |
| 18:52.44 | gnarface | not bad |
| 18:52.53 | fsmithred | netinstall? |
| 18:52.56 | Wafficus | yeah |
| 18:53.00 | gnarface | i got old hardware around here so some stuff goes slower |
| 18:53.18 | Wafficus | I'll install the AwesomeWM related stuff, login manager, and basic stuff I like |
| 18:53.22 | Wafficus | then I'll pursue the sudo thing again |
| 18:54.03 | fsmithred | are you doing some fine-grained sudo or just bazooka sudo? |
| 18:55.56 | Wafficus | pure basics |
| 18:55.57 | Wafficus | that's it |
| 18:56.04 | Wafficus | just wanna elevate to root as a super user |
| 18:56.18 | n4dir | why? |
| 18:57.38 | Wafficus | because... basic things like sudo poweroff are nice to use... |
| 18:58.19 | fsmithred | you can set sudo for just selected commands. Safer that way. |
| 18:58.22 | n4dir | i do poweroff as root all the time |
| 18:58.34 | Wafficus | even after reinstalling sudo... |
| 18:58.40 | Wafficus | after a reinstall of Devuan... |
| 18:58.51 | Wafficus | -bash: visudo: command not found |
| 18:58.51 | fsmithred | on most of my systems I have shutdown and reboot set for sudo without password |
| 18:58.55 | Wafficus | ... :/ why |
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| 18:59.00 | fsmithred | are you root? |
| 18:59.03 | Wafficus | yeah |
| 18:59.10 | Wafficus | did this as root, and as the 'sam' user |
| 18:59.16 | fsmithred | and sudo is installed? |
| 18:59.40 | fsmithred | fuck. It's in /usr/sbin |
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| 18:59.53 | fsmithred | you don't have root's path because you used su instead of 'su -' |
| 19:00.02 | fsmithred | or give the full path |
| 19:00.17 | fsmithred | what a fucking stupid decision that was |
| 19:00.19 | fsmithred | sorry |
| 19:00.27 | miskatonic | a change since buster |
| 19:00.40 | n4dir | a cancer since buster. i'd say |
| 19:00.40 | fsmithred | I'm just tired of having to tell EVERYONE about it |
| 19:00.53 | miskatonic | until stretch, su behave like su - today |
| 19:00.54 | gnarface | always used "su -" anyway, to get himself in the habit, because he foresaw this would one day happen to everyone else |
| 19:01.04 | fsmithred | su got moved from the shadow package to util-linux |
| 19:01.04 | Wafficus | ah su - |
| 19:01.07 | Wafficus | hmm interesting |
| 19:01.09 | Wafficus | so... |
| 19:01.12 | gnarface | is getting really tired of that feeling, by the way |
| 19:01.12 | Wafficus | should I do su - |
| 19:01.14 | Wafficus | then visudo? |
| 19:01.20 | Wafficus | or go straight to /usr/sbin |
| 19:01.22 | fsmithred | yeah, that'll work |
| 19:01.24 | fsmithred | either |
| 19:01.42 | Wafficus | ah you're right |
| 19:01.45 | Wafficus | now visudo works |
| 19:01.47 | Wafficus | :/ \: |
| 19:01.50 | Wafficus | lol |
| 19:01.55 | fsmithred | if you want su to revert to the old behavior... |
| 19:02.08 | gnarface | Wafficus: without the "-" you only change users, you keep your old user's entire environment. if you think about it, that should be the default behavior, but some decisions made by committee you know... |
| 19:02.09 | Wafficus | so in this case |
| 19:02.10 | fsmithred | echo 'ALWAYS_SET_PATH yes' > /etc/default/su |
| 19:02.11 | n4dir | he wants to remove su altogehter |
| 19:02.24 | Wafficus | the %sudo ALL=(ALL:ALL) ALL is already uncommented |
| 19:02.34 | Wafficus | so do I just save in Nano and quit at this moment? |
| 19:02.40 | miskatonic | who wants to remove su altogether? Torvalds? |
| 19:02.40 | n4dir | i thought you can pick that during installation, btw |
| 19:02.57 | fsmithred | if you put yourself in the sudo group, you can use sudo for all commands |
| 19:02.59 | n4dir | miskatonic: Wafficus only wants sudo. |
| 19:03.02 | fsmithred | without editing sudoers |
| 19:03.08 | Wafficus | well |
| 19:03.10 | Wafficus | I'm already doing visudo |
| 19:03.16 | Wafficus | so we're already editing some form of it |
| 19:03.32 | fsmithred | do you want all commands or just shutdown/reboot? |
| 19:03.34 | Wafficus | ^ my latest comment above applies, should I just save the file that opened in visudo if its already uncommented the correct line? |
| 19:03.39 | Wafficus | all commands honestly |
| 19:03.45 | fsmithred | yeah, exit |
| 19:03.50 | Wafficus | save and exit |
| 19:03.50 | fsmithred | you didn't make any changes |
| 19:03.51 | miskatonic | visudo can be configured to use nano |
| 19:03.51 | Wafficus | or just exit? |
| 19:03.53 | Wafficus | ah gotcha |
| 19:03.55 | Wafficus | ok |
| 19:03.56 | gnarface | Wafficus: yes save & exit, it will do the right thing with the tmp file if you launched it with visudo |
| 19:04.04 | fsmithred | adduser sam sudo |
| 19:04.07 | fsmithred | logout/login |
| 19:04.28 | gnarface | Wafficus: i assume it's using nano instead of vi because you messed with $EDITOR, alternatives, or you just removed all other editors? |
| 19:04.28 | fsmithred | user has to log out and in, not just root |
| 19:04.37 | Wafficus | no, its just the default editor |
| 19:04.42 | Wafficus | haven't added any of my dot files at all yet |
| 19:04.52 | gnarface | should work |
| 19:05.15 | gnarface | you should see it actually saving to a tmp file but then something else moves the temp file for you and fixes permissions |
| 19:05.49 | Wafficus | so |
| 19:05.58 | Wafficus | i didn't make any changes |
| 19:06.02 | Wafficus | after I did visudo as root |
| 19:06.10 | Wafficus | I logged out technically via tty prompt |
| 19:06.13 | Wafficus | logged back in as sam |
| 19:06.20 | fsmithred | sudo blkid |
| 19:06.26 | Wafficus | I then became root and did: usermod -aG sudo sam |
| 19:06.37 | n4dir | oh boy. |
| 19:06.40 | fsmithred | ok |
| 19:06.40 | gnarface | then log out again |
| 19:06.48 | gnarface | wait |
| 19:06.50 | gnarface | yea |
| 19:06.51 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 19:07.04 | Wafficus | ahah |
| 19:07.10 | Wafficus | that worked after logging out the second time |
| 19:07.15 | fsmithred | yup |
| 19:07.19 | Wafficus | phew, the old tried and true way still works |
| 19:07.26 | Wafficus | but yeah 'sudo -' is noted |
| 19:07.36 | fsmithred | no |
| 19:07.38 | fsmithred | su - |
| 19:07.42 | Wafficus | rather |
| 19:07.43 | Wafficus | yeah su - |
| 19:07.46 | Wafficus | sorry |
| 19:07.50 | gnarface | sudo su - |
| 19:07.52 | gnarface | :-p |
| 19:07.56 | fsmithred | lol |
| 19:08.02 | fsmithred | I like sudo -i |
| 19:08.09 | n4dir | you sure you are ready for Gentoe? |
| 19:08.17 | Wafficus | I did it before |
| 19:08.22 | Wafficus | over 2 or 3 weekends of attempts |
| 19:08.30 | Wafficus | I make install guides to make it easy |
| 19:08.39 | Wafficus | so yeah idk, but I wanted to give it a shot |
| 19:08.42 | Wafficus | though to be totally honest |
| 19:08.52 | Wafficus | it was compiling something from source, and that same SSD drive went into read only mode last weekend |
| 19:09.09 | Wafficus | so... yeah if it does the same BS again, I'll just try FreeBSD instead since that drive might be tempermental |
| 19:09.30 | gnarface | got enough ram? maybe just build stuff in a ramdisk |
| 19:09.33 | Wafficus | thought hardware =/ software so yeah, different things, but its still enough to be a time waster |
| 19:09.37 | Wafficus | 16 gigs of ram |
| 19:09.38 | Wafficus | i7 |
| 19:09.40 | Wafficus | this PC is ok lol |
| 19:09.42 | gnarface | should be enough for most stuff |
| 19:09.56 | gnarface | should be enough to build the kernel but not arm efl hehe |
| 19:10.09 | Wafficus | yeah I'm going for a configured kernel this attempt |
| 19:10.15 | Wafficus | more so because that kernel menu is a hell hole |
| 19:10.24 | Wafficus | I have never seen something so unorganized in my entire lifetime |
| 19:10.30 | Wafficus | and yes, I tried the "search" and it doesn't work |
| 19:10.36 | gnarface | it has been getting worse as more hardware vendors are contributing |
| 19:10.46 | Wafficus | like the instructions are ok, but trying to dive into the sub menus in that ncurses menu is like the most frustrating thing on earth |
| 19:11.02 | gnarface | the open source guys usually follow the established patterns, but commercial vendors like to ram their code in like a derailed freight train |
| 19:11.10 | gnarface | linus is just one guy |
| 19:12.11 | gnarface | what the real key is, is just recogizing what you're not using, and disabling it all |
| 19:12.43 | gnarface | but the time that takes for one guy to do starting from a vanilla kernel, has in the past decade has escalated from 8 hours to 2 days |
| 19:13.14 | n4dir | nothing beats the fun of having to recompile the kernel for 5 times cause 5 times you forgot something |
| 19:13.21 | gnarface | yea |
| 19:13.32 | gnarface | but computers have gotten WAY faster at it, so that's good at least |
| 19:13.50 | n4dir | i guess if you really do it it gets ok, but it sure ain't my thing |
| 19:14.07 | gnarface | we're getting offtopic now |
| 19:14.29 | gnarface | but anyway, yea i guess the moral is, log out after you change groups |
| 19:14.33 | gnarface | hehe |
| 19:14.51 | gnarface | and use visudo |
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| 19:37.09 | Wafficus | how would I enable libvirtd on Devuan? |
| 19:37.17 | Wafficus | * since I know it doesn't use systemctl * |
| 19:37.41 | n4dir | sysv-rc-conf |
| 19:37.49 | Wafficus | i'm using openrc |
| 19:37.50 | Wafficus | * |
| 19:37.52 | n4dir | oh. |
| 19:38.40 | miskatonic | openrc as pid1 or only as daemon supervisor? |
| 19:38.57 | Wafficus | I checked the openrc man page |
| 19:39.02 | Wafficus | I'm guessing 'sysinit' is what I want |
| 19:39.05 | Wafficus | to enable a specific service? |
| 19:41.31 | miskatonic | something like rc-update add virtd sysinit ? |
| 19:41.48 | Wafficus | that's teh weird thing |
| 19:41.51 | Wafficus | I tried that |
| 19:41.58 | Wafficus | aka: 'rc-update add libvirtd' |
| 19:42.09 | Wafficus | but it says: "bash: rc-update: command not found" |
| 19:42.16 | Wafficus | even though there's a man page for rc-update... |
| 19:42.35 | miskatonic | /sbin/rc-update add virtd sysinit ? |
| 19:43.50 | Wafficus | thanks |
| 19:44.00 | Wafficus | why are basic commands in sbin not being registered |
| 19:44.02 | Wafficus | that's so weird |
| 19:44.28 | miskatonic | did you use su without a - ? |
| 19:44.29 | Wafficus | that seemed to have started libvirtd fine since it gave a green x in terminal aka: "x service libvirtd added to runlevel sysinit' |
| 19:44.52 | Wafficus | after I did: sudo ./rc-update add libvirtd sysinit (after cd'ing into the /sbin directory) |
| 19:45.00 | Wafficus | miskatonic: I just did sudo |
| 19:45.13 | Wafficus | * rather, the command above |
| 19:47.20 | miskatonic | /sbin/* is only in the path for superuser. Sudo uses the environment of the one issuing the command, not root's |
| 19:48.14 | Wafficus | regarding openrc |
| 19:48.25 | Wafficus | how do I actually "start" a service like libvirtd |
| 19:48.35 | Wafficus | I tried openrc-run but that doesn't seem to do it |
| 19:48.40 | Wafficus | aka after I'm in /sbin |
| 19:48.46 | Wafficus | openrc-run libvirtd |
| 19:50.07 | Wafficus | got it |
| 19:50.10 | fsmithred | does the service command work with openrc? |
| 19:50.13 | Wafficus | its ./rc-service libvirtd start |
| 19:50.25 | Wafficus | it was already started when it was added though so it should be fine |
| 19:51.13 | miskatonic | also: rc-status to see which daemons are running at which runlevel |
| 19:53.49 | clort | points to his Miskatonic University degree on the wall o/ |
| 19:54.35 | Wafficus | what's interesting is that there doesn't appear to be a 'libvirtd' group present though |
| 19:54.55 | Wafficus | I tried doing: sudo usermod -G libvirtd -a sam |
| 19:55.04 | Wafficus | but yeah no 'libvirtd' group was found |
| 19:56.22 | Wafficus | ah its "libvirt" as the name of the group, got it |
| 20:01.42 | miskatonic | the research team of miskatonic university is now examinating the trail of devastation caused by the systemdemon monster and its creator, Dr. Frankenpoettering |
| 20:04.12 | clort | shh, the hills have eyes |
| 20:06.44 | jelly | the hills are ALIVE |
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| 20:55.12 | systemdlete | I will try it on my beowulf hardware to see if it is better supported |
| 20:55.31 | systemdlete | (sorry, I may have missed some messages) |
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| 20:58.30 | phidoux | greetings any one here familiar with pulseaudio i am having issues i upgraded to chimaera and pulseaudio was able to provide analog stereo duplex for my Audigy2 sound card but now its not i can use apulse but because things keep fighting over the microphone some applications keep losing it making it hard to communicate in places like discord |
| 21:02.29 | fsmithred | phidoux, someone else came here with PA problems in chimaera, and he claimed that I helped him, but I have no idea what I did. |
| 21:02.46 | fsmithred | Discussion is about 1/5 of the way down this page: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/_devuan.2020-11-21.log.html |
| 21:03.01 | fsmithred | with kreyren and me |
| 21:07.52 | phidoux | the issue is getting analog input and output at the same time |
| 21:08.01 | phidoux | normaly called analog stereo duplex |
| 21:08.16 | phidoux | but somthing is wrong with chimaera's configuration as its not showing up |
| 21:09.15 | fsmithred | cat you see all your audio devices in pavucontrol? |
| 21:09.21 | fsmithred | cat/can |
| 21:10.38 | phidoux | i use pulsemixer on the terminal and yes i get the same output from pavucontrol |
| 21:11.10 | phidoux | upgraded to chimaera for better suport with my amd rtx580 using the newer kernels |
| 21:12.20 | fsmithred | I'm about to install PA on my chimaera to see what it does |
| 21:13.49 | fsmithred | what's in /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/? |
| 21:14.10 | fsmithred | is the 00-autospawn file there or is it 01-enable-autospawn? |
| 21:14.11 | phidoux | 01-enable-autospawn.conf |
| 21:14.30 | phidoux | with autospawn=yes |
| 21:14.41 | fsmithred | ok, that's what I have. I was thinking maybe the old config was in the way. |
| 21:18.23 | fsmithred | I've got it in the last tab. Profile: Analog Stereo Duplex |
| 21:18.38 | phidoux | yes |
| 21:18.45 | phidoux | the problem is its not showing up for my card |
| 21:19.50 | phidoux | https://pastebin.com/VLEA1qAc |
| 21:20.00 | phidoux | and it did in beowulf |
| 21:20.26 | phidoux | right now i can only have one input or output but not input and output |
| 21:20.39 | phidoux | basicaly i would need two cards |
| 21:22.36 | phidoux | SB Audigy 2 ZS [SB0353] (rev.4, serial:0x10031102) <- the card i am using |
| 21:24.00 | fsmithred | sorry, I got no good ideas other than to look for debian bug reports |
| 21:27.55 | n4dir | there is always #lau and #opensourcemusicians |
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| 22:59.12 | systemdlete | Turns out that the new nvidia card works fine in beowulf. |
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