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| 04:35.48 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #devuan-offtopic |
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| 15:11.26 | brocashelm | getting a segmentation fault in ceres when i try to load file or url on mpv; anything possibly related to updating libmesa or another video driver? |
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| 15:21.33 | brocashelm | i can confirm: mesa-va-drivers and mesa-vdpau-drivers are causing segfaults with processes such as mpv |
| 15:21.47 | brocashelm | (for ceres/unstable) |
| 15:22.54 | fsmithred | same version of mpv in chimaera is working |
| 15:23.44 | fsmithred | huh. Maybe you should remove those mesa packages. They aren't installed here. |
| 15:25.37 | xinomilo | just upgraded mesa* to 20.2.1 and mpv still works, but might need to reboot to check for sure |
| 15:26.42 | brocashelm | it happened the moment i upgraded |
| 15:27.17 | brocashelm | so i apt held them for the time being |
| 15:27.38 | fsmithred | well, I can't install it to test. I just filled up my root parttition. |
| 15:29.55 | brocashelm | at least one of these is causing segfaults (some were held back automatically by the repo because deps not yet satisfied): libegl-mesa0 libegl1-mesa-dev libgbm1 libgbm1:i386 libgl1-mesa-dev libgl1-mesa-dri libgl1-mesa-dri:i386 libglapi-mesa libglapi-mesa:i386 libgles2-mesa-dev libglx-mesa0 libglx-mesa0:i386 libosmesa6:i386 libxatracker2 mesa-va-drivers mesa-vdpau-drivers mesa-vulkan-drivers mesa-vulkan-drivers:i386 |
| 15:36.34 | fsmithred | I added the first two mesa libs you mentioned, but they are chimaera versions. Still working ok. |
| 15:40.26 | brocashelm | strange. not sure why that happened |
| 15:41.17 | fsmithred | I have a ceres VM, but it's gonna take some time to upgrade and install some things |
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| 15:58.32 | xinomilo | no i386 here, so i guess its arch-specific packages at fault |
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| 16:32.14 | brocashelm | amd64 for me |
| 16:33.01 | brocashelm | i think i'll just keep those packages on hold for a while until debian package team issues a fix |
| 16:33.58 | brocashelm | their devs have been upgrading builds like crazy lately |
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| 16:55.35 | hagbard_ | forward slash |
| 16:55.43 | oel | yes ;) |
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| 18:04.05 | systemdlete | how do I install the headers for libc? If I try to install stdlibc++, it wants to install 2gb of files. I don't need 98% of them. I just want, say, <sys/time.h> etc |
| 18:04.47 | systemdlete | stdlibc++ wants to install all sorts of x-compile and arch headers. I don't need/want them all. |
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| 18:11.41 | fsmithred | systemdlete, this one? linux-libc-dev: /usr/include/linux/time.h |
| 18:11.50 | systemdlete | That's installed. |
| 18:11.55 | systemdlete | and so is libc6-dev |
| 18:12.00 | systemdlete | I think I see the problem |
| 18:12.36 | systemdlete | There is no link from /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu to /usr/include/sys |
| 18:13.15 | systemdlete | and, no, I don't want the kernel headers, just the userland headers |
| 18:13.26 | systemdlete | (I have the kernel headers actually) |
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| 18:15.08 | hagbard_ | libc6-dev, i think? |
| 18:15.24 | systemdlete | I've got that one (see above) |
| 18:17.11 | fsmithred | I have /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/sys/ but no /usr/include/sys |
| 18:17.51 | systemdlete | So how is the developer supposed to include, say, <sys/time.h>, which is explicitly named in some of the man pages for time routines? |
| 18:18.01 | systemdlete | (this is kind of silly) |
| 18:18.27 | systemdlete | apt should assume that MOST development work will be for the platform the system is running on. |
| 18:18.48 | systemdlete | Either that, or every unix/linux man(3) page needs serious updating |
| 18:19.36 | systemdlete | longs for the days when these things were done for the user and things progressed more or less straight forward... |
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| 18:20.30 | fsmithred | Are you saying that more was done for the user in the past than is done now? |
| 18:21.01 | systemdlete | no |
| 18:21.38 | fsmithred | I don't know enough to answer your question |
| 18:22.38 | systemdlete | If I have a c source with a call to "#include <sys/time.h>' as shown in various man(3) pages, it doesn't exist. |
| 18:23.05 | systemdlete | (assume the simplest of all c sources here. A 10 liner maybe) |
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| 18:23.22 | fsmithred | and normally it should be found in /usr/include/sys/time.h? |
| 18:23.26 | systemdlete | right |
| 18:23.47 | systemdlete | the "angle brackets" usually mean to look under /usr/include |
| 18:23.51 | fsmithred | ln -s /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu/sys/time.h /usr/include/time.h |
| 18:23.54 | systemdlete | yep |
| 18:23.56 | fsmithred | sorry |
| 18:24.03 | fsmithred | I dropped a sys |
| 18:24.20 | systemdlete | ??? |
| 18:24.35 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:24.41 | fsmithred | but really |
| 18:24.47 | fsmithred | link the whole dir |
| 18:25.09 | systemdlete | of course. But I don't remember this "step" when I did development work on linux in the past. |
| 18:25.19 | systemdlete | I mean, like, 10 years ago maybe, or longer? |
| 18:25.21 | fsmithred | was it on something other than debian? |
| 18:25.43 | systemdlete | probably. RH, CentOS... I didn't do much on debian then. Maybe that's it. |
| 18:25.50 | DPA | In my gcc, /usr/include/x86_64-linux-gnu is in the search path, so include will find it: https://pastebin.com/7FTjcHn2 |
| 18:25.55 | fsmithred | yeah, that would probably make a difference |
| 18:26.26 | systemdlete | But what if that path is not in your search path, DPA? |
| 18:27.00 | systemdlete | What I am saying is that the installer and tools should ASSUME that we are targeting the platform we are running on and only explicitly request when cross-compiling |
| 18:28.05 | systemdlete | which brings up a question. Why isn't that path in *MY* gcc search path then? |
| 18:28.14 | systemdlete | Did I miss a step somehow? |
| 18:28.43 | systemdlete | nvm. I think we have solved this matter. Thanks. |
| 18:28.55 | systemdlete | I'll just make the link, that's all. |
| 18:30.59 | DPA | Then the compiler was wrongly configured, or I think in case of gcc, there is a spec file somewhere. Where did you get it from? |
| 18:31.43 | DPA | gcc, I mean. |
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| 18:35.20 | DPA | Oh, it looks like the spec file gets compiled into gcc. I always disliked this compile time config bs regarding libcs that gcc and clang do. |
| 18:38.53 | systemdlete | sounds like maybe too much dependency? |
| 18:39.51 | systemdlete | Sorry, fsmithred. I keep forgetting that this is based on debian. These problems are not the fault of you or devuan really. |
| 18:40.01 | systemdlete | Didn't mean to be a hot-head about it. |
| 18:40.13 | fsmithred | I started with redhat and suse, so I feel your pain. |
| 18:40.25 | brocashelm | i have never installed debian myself |
| 18:40.37 | brocashelm | i did try lmde briefly, but that was it |
| 18:40.48 | brocashelm | devuan is my first proper "debian" install |
| 18:41.03 | fsmithred | all the downstream distros are contaminated with the same "debian way" |
| 18:41.05 | systemdlete | Actually, in this case, I was merely wanting to examine sys/time.h for comparison (reference) with a different kernel level on a different distro -- I didn't expect that the file regimen would be different for these. |
| 18:41.28 | systemdlete | (I know, I know. Again, sorry man) |
| 18:42.22 | fsmithred | np |
| 18:43.17 | systemdlete | I have been thinking -- and I'm sure at least some of you all have too -- if there were a way to sort of "automatically" convert the packages to maybe pacman or apk format (maybe adding some adjustments for sanity), if that wouldn't make life a little easier? I realize this is "work" to a degree, but once the tools to do this transformation were complete, it probably wouldn't be difficult there on out for subsequent releases. |
| 18:43.39 | systemdlete | I like to use "pacapt" because it emulates pacman. I think, though, that I like apk the most. |
| 18:43.52 | systemdlete | (apk being based on the same library as pacman, btw) |
| 18:44.32 | fsmithred | how would that be easier? |
| 18:44.40 | systemdlete | It won't make any difference, in the end, in terms of running devuan, but it might make it easier to locate files etc. |
| 18:44.55 | fsmithred | apt-file find <file> |
| 18:45.00 | fsmithred | apt-file list <package> |
| 18:45.04 | systemdlete | well, for instance, with pacapt, I can find files easily. apt-file is not even installed by default |
| 18:45.20 | systemdlete | at least not here it wasn't. I didn't even know it existed. |
| 18:45.32 | fsmithred | does alien do that? |
| 18:45.47 | systemdlete | what is "alien"? |
| 18:45.59 | fsmithred | converts packages to another type |
| 18:46.03 | systemdlete | oh. |
| 18:46.05 | systemdlete | not sure. |
| 18:46.07 | fsmithred | deb <-> rpm |
| 18:46.11 | systemdlete | ah. |
| 18:46.22 | systemdlete | well, rpm is another beast of great proportions, isn't it? |
| 18:46.35 | systemdlete | I like yum, though, I admit. |
| 18:46.46 | systemdlete | I think apt is supposed to be like yum/dng |
| 18:47.09 | fsmithred | alien [--to-deb] [--to-rpm] [--to-tgz] [--to-slp] [options] file [...] |
| 18:47.34 | systemdlete | I guess that, as long as I have pacapt, I'll be happy enough. It does 99% of the stuff I want/need. |
| 18:47.42 | fsmithred | probably the other way around (yum is supposed to be like apt) |
| 18:47.42 | DHE | rpm is just the raw tool. it has no dependency fetching capabilities and doens't know what a repo is. yum/dnf is that layer |
| 18:47.53 | DHE | so I guess it's like dpkg ? |
| 18:48.03 | fsmithred | yes |
| 18:48.11 | fsmithred | rpm -i <package> |
| 18:48.54 | systemdlete | fsmithred: Yeah, as much as I disliked some aspects of rpm, I do miss the original RH 4 and 5, and later, CentOS |
| 18:48.59 | fsmithred | no pacman in alien |
| 18:49.48 | systemdlete | Well, I think you won this round |
| 18:49.58 | fsmithred | ? |
| 18:50.03 | systemdlete | I should be grateful that we have even devuan. |
| 18:50.05 | systemdlete | ! |
| 18:50.31 | systemdlete | I almost gave up on linux altogether, seriously. I was starting to look at solaris, openindiana |
| 18:50.43 | systemdlete | (their packaging makes debian look very smart) |
| 18:55.44 | fsmithred | kolibri FTW! |
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| 19:11.58 | brocashelm | to follow up on my mpv issue earlier, it was hwdec=auto-safe option causing the segfault; works now |
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| 19:14.40 | unixbsd | is there a editor like vi in devuan? |
| 19:14.56 | unixbsd | there is no elvis, just only the big, heavy vim.tiny or vim. |
| 19:15.45 | debdog | elvis-tiny? what version of devuan? |
| 19:16.02 | unixbsd | apt-get install install elvis gives nothing found on ascii. |
| 19:16.09 | fsmithred | vim-tiny I think is the default |
| 19:16.15 | unixbsd | beurk |
| 19:16.23 | unixbsd | is there something smaller? |
| 19:16.39 | fsmithred | nano is there |
| 19:16.43 | debdog | p elvis-tiny - Tiny vi compatible editor for the base system |
| 19:16.45 | unixbsd | vi ? |
| 19:16.55 | unixbsd | on slackware, there is vi. |
| 19:16.59 | unixbsd | On bsd, as well. |
| 19:17.58 | fsmithred | Elvis-tiny is based on a 1991 Minix version of elvis. You should install another vi-editor (such as "vim", "elvis" or |
| 19:17.58 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.11 | debdog | I see |
| 19:18.32 | unixbsd | that's all we have.... I look on bsd if I can compile the vi from pcdos. |
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| 19:37.41 | unixbsd | kilo would be nice to have, kilo is very well known. |
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| 22:41.20 | yeti | who knows kilo? |
| 22:41.55 | tuxd3v | yeti does you have a nanopi R2S :P |
| 22:41.58 | tuxd3v | :) |
| 22:42.11 | yeti | "Kilo does not depend on any library (not even curses). It uses fairly standard VT100 (and similar terminals) escape sequences." |
| 22:42.22 | yeti | hardcoded for vt100? |
| 22:42.29 | yeti | seriously? |
| 22:42.55 | yeti | nah... pi0..4, bananapi-r1, cubietruck |
| 22:44.12 | tuxd3v | yeti, pi{0..4}? |
| 22:44.20 | yeti | yip |
| 22:44.25 | tuxd3v | awesome :) |
| 22:45.31 | tuxd3v | can rpi4 be overclocked to 1.8Ghz or something like that? |
| 22:45.50 | yeti | I'd be more interested in underclocking |
| 22:46.06 | yeti | havent looked for overclocking |
| 22:46.12 | tuxd3v | hehehe, because of the heat? |
| 22:46.19 | yeti | frying pans! |
| 22:46.26 | tuxd3v | :D |
| 22:47.00 | tuxd3v | I am in a good damm dead end, with ananopi R2S.. |
| 22:47.40 | yeti | https://www.berrybase.de/media/image/97/66/2c/ID_85048_orig_600x600.jpg <<< even with that dress, they come near to painly temperatures... |
| 22:47.53 | yeti | not overclocked |
| 22:48.01 | yeti | that's trash by design |
| 22:48.11 | yeti | but the cheapest armish with 8G RAM |
| 22:49.01 | yeti | ok... wirh netbsd... with linux they probaly will glow bright white |
| 22:49.03 | yeti | :-Ã |
| 22:49.20 | mason | NetBSD's a bit harder on hardware than Linux generally. |
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| 22:50.52 | tuxd3v | actually netbsd is more advanced that what I tough, on ARM.. |
| 22:52.29 | onefang | How many terminal programs these days don't talk VT100? Hard coding "fairly standard VT100 (and similar terminals) escape sequences." is actually a good idea. |
| 22:52.56 | yeti | thats an opinion, not a fact. |
| 22:52.56 | tuxd3v | http://www.netbsd.org/releases/formal-9/NetBSD-9.0.html |
| 22:53.50 | yeti | pi4 currently needs netbsd9.99 |
| 22:53.50 | mason | NetBSD doesn't have a tickless kernel yet, so it doesn't sleep as cleanly, since we are comparing heat and power. |
| 22:54.13 | mason | I guess a tickless kernel can be opinion. :P |
| 22:55.18 | mason | yeti: What's your opinion on whether NetBSD's kernel has a fixed clock? |
| 22:55.18 | stiltr | Make sure you have the latest usb FW. Drops the temps considerably on the Pi4. |
