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| 02:51.24 | meep_____ | I really do not like how every other program I install in Beowulf installs avahi-daemon and dconf-daemon despite being able to work fine without |
| 02:51.29 | meep_____ | As well as policykit |
| 02:51.45 | meep_____ | I keep having to apt purge those programs and apt autoremove --purge |
| 02:54.15 | MinceR | maybe disabling installation of Recommends by default would help |
| 02:54.29 | meep_____ | I've never done that before |
| 02:54.36 | meep_____ | How would i do that? |
| 02:54.43 | MinceR | or pinning avahi-daemon, dconf-daemon and policykit so they're never installed |
| 02:54.52 | meep_____ | How? |
| 02:54.54 | MinceR | not sure, i've never done it either |
| 02:56.00 | MinceR | https://superuser.com/questions/615565/can-i-make-apt-get-always-use-no-install-recommends |
| 02:57.13 | MinceR | iirc pinning was used to keep systemd from being installed, presumably the same method would work in this case |
| 02:57.22 | MinceR | by some people, i mean |
| 02:57.35 | MinceR | maybe devuan includes it too, despite amprolla filtering out the packages |
| 03:05.02 | enyc | meows |
| 03:11.11 | MinceR | meows |
| 03:11.44 | meep_____ | skreees |
| 03:12.06 | meep_____ | I'm setting up DRM |
| 03:12.09 | enyc | wonders what changin in devuan lately |
| 03:12.31 | meep_____ | Finally getting around to switching to it from i3 |
| 03:12.37 | meep_____ | *DWM |
| 03:13.30 | golinux | I figured that had to be a typo. |
| 03:14.05 | enyc | meep_____: not used einher seriously myself - how do those compare.. .some related video online halks bout then movnig to xmonad ;p |
| 03:14.20 | enyc | are these all suckless / etc type window-managers ??!? |
| 03:15.25 | meep_____ | Dwm 6.2 does everything i need from i3 but with only 1000 or so lines of portable C |
| 03:15.36 | meep_____ | With only a single patch |
| 03:15.39 | meep_____ | For the systray |
| 03:15.48 | MinceR | well, there's a Direct Rendering Manager, iirc |
| 03:16.26 | meep_____ | Yeah since gnome went to shit lots of people are switching to window managers not tied to redhat or gtk3 |
| 03:17.57 | enyc | MinceR: yes I was thinking of drm, that sort of mess i've had bugs with on ati rs480 lately ;/ |
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| 08:23.11 | systemdlete | Maybe nothing; but maybe something. I just upgraded my main PC to 32GB RAM. I had 16GB previously, and I was using almost all of it up, and frequently saw swapping/paging activity. Now, after the upgrade, I am seeing anywhere from 50% to about 66% of memory in use at various times. I am running more VM guests than previously, yet I am still seeing a few 100MB of swap activity even though there is far more than that |
| 08:23.11 | systemdlete | available in main memory. I assume this is normal, but why? |
| 08:24.01 | systemdlete | ascii running on hardware. FX processor (8350 I think) 8 cores. |
| 08:24.22 | systemdlete | this is not too worrisome; I just find it interesting. |
| 08:26.54 | gnarface | it's because /proc/sys/vm/swappiness defaults to 60 on debian |
| 08:27.04 | gnarface | you can adjust that |
| 08:27.18 | sixwheeledbeast | Certainly on Ubuntu I see this happen as after a bit of uptime all of the RAM is in use as cache. I swappiness is the way to minimise it. |
| 08:28.07 | gnarface | set it to 0 to avoid swap |
| 08:28.20 | gnarface | valid values from 0-99 i think? |
| 08:29.03 | sixwheeledbeast | I have mine on 9 which seems fine until your total RAM usage is up in the 90% |
| 08:30.28 | sixwheeledbeast | also FX but with 16GB BTW |
| 08:31.20 | systemdlete | so, when RAM gets to 60% or so in use, it begins to swap, saving RAM for cache and buffers, etc? |
| 08:33.06 | systemdlete | thanks for the explanation. I might play with it... slightly though. I don't mind the swapping that much. |
| 08:35.18 | sixwheeledbeast | you can change it in a way that persists a reboot or temporary |
| 08:36.12 | gnarface | yea the configs go in /etc/sysctl.conf or /etc/sysctl.d/ |
| 08:36.23 | systemdlete | to start, just temp. Actually, sixwheeledbeast, I don't reboot my host much. I prefer to let it run; I've discovered that my disk drives are lasting longer by avoiding the daily cycling. |
| 08:36.40 | systemdlete | but I'm getting OT now |
| 08:36.49 | gnarface | i think that one you can change on the fly without any reboot |
| 08:37.15 | gnarface | maybe it needs to be set at boot, maybe i'm wrong. but i thought it takes effect basically immediately |
| 08:37.16 | systemdlete | sysctl -w kernel.whatever=70 |
| 08:37.19 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't reboot much either, or spin down. |
| 08:38.13 | sixwheeledbeast | you can do it either way i cant remember, I have a bash alias for it. |
| 08:38.22 | systemdlete | I just had a 2010 Hitachi drive die on me; granted it was not in use for about 4 years. |
| 08:38.42 | systemdlete | The -w option to sysctl does the same thing as editing /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 08:38.53 | systemdlete | (makes it permanent) |
| 08:39.46 | systemdlete | Before I began the practice of keeping the box running 24x7, I was losing drives left and right |
| 08:40.07 | systemdlete | anyway. Very interesting, and I may play with that option in the coming days or so. |
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| 09:14.43 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | how do I suspend the laptop on lid close without systemd? |
| 09:14.52 | CAPTCHA_REQUIRED | and also call i3lock |
| 09:17.19 | gnarface | try installing the pm-utils package and acpid |
| 09:17.44 | gnarface | or maybe just task-laptop |
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| 12:00.25 | lxsameer | hey folks, it's kindof a silly question, but how compatible is devuan with debian? can i install those deb packages that has nothing to do with systemd |
| 12:00.27 | lxsameer | ? |
| 12:01.16 | djph | lxsameer: it's identical, with the exception of shoving systemd down your throat |
| 12:01.50 | lxsameer | djph: cool, so it still uses packages from debian repo right ? |
| 12:02.33 | djph | except where debian is suboptimal |
| 12:03.26 | ShorTie | they not in apt ?? |
| 12:04.56 | djph | ShorTie: "they" what? |
| 12:05.53 | lxsameer | djph: thanks mate |
| 12:06.24 | debdog | in other words: the vast majority of packages are directly taken from debian. exceptions are the ones modified by the devuan project to circumvent the requirement for systemd and its dependencies |
| 12:06.33 | djph | ^ |
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| 13:53.15 | cronolio | hi, is here a right place to ask about sysvinit ? |
| 13:53.39 | Garb0 | cronolio, yeah, what's going on? |
| 13:56.16 | cronolio | i have strange custom environment, without mounted /proc /sys /dev and when i run poweroff it says |
| 13:56.16 | cronolio | shutdown.c (514): Function not implemented |
| 13:56.16 | cronolio | Aborted |
| 13:57.09 | Garb0 | cronolio, try halt -p |
| 13:57.10 | cronolio | (541) sorry |
| 13:58.45 | cronolio | https://git.savannah.nongnu.org/cgit/sysvinit.git/tree/src/shutdown.c#n541 looks like that |
| 13:59.01 | Garb0 | if that also doesn't work, you've botched something bad and i don't have enough info, you're probably better off backing up and reinstalling |
| 13:59.02 | cronolio | halt -p - the same result |
| 13:59.34 | Garb0 | did you build sysvinit yourself or something |
| 14:00.08 | cronolio | sysvinit in lfs like system but with musl |
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| 14:00.24 | cronolio | without any init scripts yet |
| 14:00.55 | Garb0 | oh yeah, isn't fprintf part of glibc stuff? |
| 14:01.53 | cronolio | dunno |
| 14:02.02 | Garb0 | keep in mind that musl is not a drop in replacement for glibc, like libressl for openssl. |
| 14:02.19 | Garb0 | let me check if musl has fprintf |
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| 14:03.05 | cronolio | meybe just `setuid(geteuid());` returns error |
| 14:04.11 | Garb0 | it seems that musl has no fprintf |
| 14:06.02 | cronolio | https://git.musl-libc.org/cgit/musl/tree/src/stdio/fprintf.c not that ? |
| 14:06.34 | Garb0 | hm, i couldn't find that in the musl source code, i must be retarded |
| 14:07.33 | Garb0 | it's definitely not seteuid/setuid because if that was the culprit it would break at 540 |
| 14:09.20 | systemdlete | init is not reaping children |
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| 14:09.28 | systemdlete | zombies |
| 14:09.42 | systemdlete | ascii with all the latest updates applied |
| 14:10.05 | systemdlete | kernel is 4.9.0-13 |
| 14:11.21 | Garb0 | cronolio, strerror also exists, why the hell did it stop at that line |
| 14:12.17 | Garb0 | you should just post this on sysvinit's issue page |
| 14:13.42 | cronolio | maybe fprintf wants some /dev/.... or /proc/.... |
| 14:15.21 | cronolio | will try later after writing some system initital scripts and booting up with it |
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| 14:19.45 | cronolio | i able to poweroff -f :) |
| 14:29.52 | tuxd3v | cronolio, you are in a typical install of devuan + sysvinit? |
| 14:30.09 | tuxd3v | Or you are experimenting with lots of external stuff? |
| 14:30.38 | Garb0 | he's on musl, absolute mad lad. |
| 14:33.06 | cronolio | fully custom system |
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| 15:10.15 | leafwiz | Hey, I see that I can support Devuan thought paypal. And I would like to donate, but it would also be cool if I could buy some t-shirts / merk. Is there an official t-shirt I can buy? |
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| 15:11.02 | leafwiz | Just thought the official site I could not see any merk |
| 15:13.22 | golinux | leafwiz: https://shop.spreadshirt.net/devuan |
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| 15:13.55 | wikan | hi :) |
| 15:14.06 | wikan | i have sound and wifi issues |
| 15:14.12 | wikan | wifi connection takes very long |
| 15:14.47 | wikan | pavucontrol is "connecting" to server but nothing happens |
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| 16:07.14 | systemdlete | downgraded to kernel 4.9.0-12 and things seem a little more sane again... |
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| 19:19.00 | aaron_ | Im just a linux user and i installed devuan to explore it and i cant figure out how to get X to work |
| 19:19.50 | aaron_ | amd thames 7500m/7600m |
| 19:20.29 | gnarface | aaron_: probably just missing some packages. the packages shouldn't be any different from the debian names though... |
| 19:20.47 | aaron_ | umm let me see what iv installed |
| 19:21.43 | gnarface | aaron_: i don't know if we have a devuan version of this information, but it should all be the same except for the repo urls: https://wiki.debian.org/AtiHowTo |
| 19:21.55 | aaron_ | iv installed amdgpu and ati driver and radeon driver |
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| 19:22.21 | gnarface | did you remember the non-free firmware? newer ones need non-free firmware, not sure exactly which versions though |
| 19:22.27 | gnarface | also you'll need Mesa |
| 19:22.54 | aaron_ | um iv installed no firmware that i am aware of |
| 19:23.14 | aaron_ | um let me paste a copy of the Xorg log |
| 19:23.22 | aaron_ | brb |
| 19:23.59 | gnarface | aaron_: try installing "mesa-utils" and "firmware-amd-graphics" if they're not already there. (firmware-amd-graphics will be in non-free, which you may not have enabled by default) |
| 19:26.42 | aaron_ | ill try that quickly thanks gnarface |
| 19:30.16 | aaron_ | gnarface, wow thanks, it worked! |
| 19:30.31 | aaron_ | gnarface, it had me really stumped. i come from ubuntu land |
| 19:33.27 | aaron_ | theres no network manager! |
| 19:33.52 | aaron_ | wicd how interesting! |
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| 19:34.38 | aaron_ | thanks again take care and keep up the amazing work on devuan |
| 19:34.39 | aaron_ | :) |
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| 19:53.39 | gnarface | would have welcomed him but was afk |
| 19:58.45 | brocashelm | ah, he'll be back; he did say he came straight from ubuntu |
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| 22:00.50 | torvn77 | Hello! I installed the Steam store client on Devuan, but many games do not work as there is no 32 bit version of the vulkan library. You could not compile it, otherwise you only have a library for 64 bits in your distribution. |
| 22:03.38 | gnarface | torvn77: you need to enable multiarch |
| 22:03.57 | gnarface | torvn77: (then run apt-get update and the 32-bit stuff will also show up in the repos) |
| 22:04.28 | gnarface | torvn77: and make sure you used the steam client package from the non-free section of the repo, not from valve's site |
| 22:06.47 | gnarface | torvn77: "dpkg --add-architecture i386 && apt-get update" |
| 22:11.26 | torvn77 | $ apt list | grep i386 | grep vulkan |
| 22:11.27 | torvn77 | WARNING: apt does not have a stable CLI interface. Use with caution in scripts. |
| 22:11.27 | torvn77 | libvulkan-dev/stable 1.1.97-2 i386 |
| 22:11.27 | torvn77 | libvulkan1/stable,now 1.1.97-2 i386 [installed,automatic] |
| 22:11.27 | torvn77 | mesa-vulkan-drivers/stable,now 18.3.6-2+deb10u1 i386 [installed] |
| 22:11.27 | torvn77 | nvidia-legacy-390xx-nonglvnd-vulkan-icd/stable 390.138-1~deb10u1 i386 |
| 22:11.29 | torvn77 | nvidia-legacy-390xx-vulkan-icd/stable 390.138-1~deb10u1 i386 |
| 22:11.31 | torvn77 | nvidia-nonglvnd-vulkan-common/stable 418.152.00-1 i386 |
| 22:11.33 | torvn77 | nvidia-nonglvnd-vulkan-icd/stable 418.152.00-1 i386 |
| 22:11.35 | torvn77 | nvidia-tesla-418-nonglvnd-vulkan-icd/stable-backports 418.152.00-1~bpo10+1 i386 |
| 22:11.59 | gnarface | sighs |
| 22:14.43 | gnarface | this all seems very familiar. did i have another conversation with him about this that ended the exact same way? |
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| 22:42.40 | wikan | what is a good alternative to devuan? |
| 22:42.52 | wikan | i have huge problem on one computer |
| 22:42.53 | nemo | wikan: gentoo |
| 22:43.16 | wikan | devuan doesn't work well on this laptop |
| 22:44.23 | gnarface | wikan: if you're having driver issues try the beowulf-backports kernel |
| 22:44.41 | nemo | wikan: bit more detail might help too |
| 22:44.54 | nemo | computer model, nature of problems.. |
| 22:46.07 | wikan | well |
| 22:46.13 | wikan | three problems i have |
| 22:46.50 | wikan | 1. buildin wifi - connection and receiving ip address takes about 1, 1:30 min |
| 22:47.21 | wikan | 2. no sound. alsamixer says about two devices, but no controls. pulseautio is not reachable |
| 22:48.04 | nemo | pulseaudio + beowulf might be that bug... is it fixed yet? the config file thing |
| 22:48.22 | nemo | wifi... is that at startup or from inside X using wicd gui? |
| 22:48.26 | wikan | 3. when i was changing screen resolution... /home partiton was disapearing. No files, no device in lsblk. Moved files to / part |
| 22:48.57 | wikan | wifi isnt working via installer. Only wicd somehow can connect |
| 22:49.36 | wikan | nemo: I don't care about pulse. I may use alsa. Need sound :) |
| 22:50.28 | nemo | O_o |
| 22:50.29 | wikan | but no audio is available |
| 22:50.40 | nemo | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:50.41 | nemo | wut |
| 22:50.52 | gnarface | wikan: those all sound like problems that are highly likely to be fixable by upgrading to the beowulf-backports kernel, however the harddrive issue might be hardware failure... only one way to find out |
| 22:50.56 | wikan | yes. logs says - disconecting usb :D |
| 22:51.03 | nemo | wikan: just saying. devuan uses pulse by default, so that should be fine, but there's a known bug in pulse on beowulf that I have no idea if it is fixed |
| 22:51.07 | wikan | i have SD card - (system), and SSD disk |
| 22:51.14 | wikan | ssd was /home |
| 22:51.17 | nemo | wikan: huh. would never have put home on usb personally, but to each their own |
| 22:51.28 | wikan | and probably it is connected via USB bridge :D |
| 22:51.35 | nemo | wikan: how are you mounting the USB? anything that, say, gnome/mate automounts might be screwing with? |
| 22:51.37 | wikan | it is inside |
| 22:51.44 | wikan | have no idea wtf |
| 22:51.55 | wikan | SD card originaly was for Google Android |
| 22:51.59 | wikan | SSD for Windows |
| 22:52.01 | nemo | just wondering if screen res thing (not sure what you were doing there) triggered X restart |
| 22:52.05 | wikan | magic lol |
| 22:52.15 | wikan | xrandr |
| 22:52.16 | nemo | which might've caused their automounter to get involved |
| 22:52.28 | nemo | maybe crashed something ⺠|
| 22:52.33 | nemo | what desktop env? |
| 22:52.39 | wikan | i was changing resolution for 5 times |
| 22:52.51 | nemo | gnarface: do you remember what config file was that pulseaudio/systemd thing fsmithred talked about? I keep forgetting |
| 22:52.52 | wikan | every time drive was getting disconnected |
| 22:53.05 | nemo | wikan: any clues in X log? crashes? restarts? |
| 22:53.23 | wikan | nope |
| 22:53.31 | wikan | USB devices go down |
| 22:53.38 | wikan | and back |
| 22:54.05 | wikan | and SSD is originaly installed that way |
| 22:54.29 | wikan | maybe it is not usb socket but somethowe it affects ssd too |
| 22:56.07 | wikan | ssd is not important but sound and wifi |
| 22:56.24 | wikan | i will try install kermel from backports |
| 22:57.05 | gnarface | nemo: /etc/pam.d/lightdm-greeter |
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| 22:58.00 | gnarface | nemo: replace pam_systemd.so with pam_elogind.so |
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| 23:37.18 | Agris | Pam doesn't want anything to do with you dwight |
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