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| 12:56.35 | ham5urg | Is it possible to log into a machine via serial+ssh? |
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| 13:09.13 | yeti | ssh is via networl. plain serial is text. |
| 13:09.37 | yeti | you could run slip or ppp on a serial and then ssh over that. |
| 13:12.16 | Weeezy | the days of serial port communications is long gone |
| 13:13.25 | yeti | aaaand? |
| 13:13.39 | yeti | does that help to answer ham5urg? |
| 13:14.26 | yeti | I even keep a plip cable as srcret weapon! |
| 13:14.27 | yeti | .-Ã |
| 13:15.32 | hemimaniac | and a roll of twine and 2 soup cans? |
| 13:16.02 | yeti | naaaa... we do modem over that now... |
| 13:16.14 | hemimaniac | nice |
| 13:16.15 | fsmithred | right. Weeezy is relatively new here and probably doesn't know that people around here will use old stuff if they have it. |
| 13:16.29 | yeti | https://hackaday.com/2020/07/18/a-tin-can-modem-just-for-fun/ |
| 13:17.18 | hemimaniac | I still have a telephony modem going for signals over HAM |
| 13:17.39 | mason | ham5urg: The closest you'll get to combining serial and ssh is if you have a serial aggregator you can ssh into. |
| 13:17.52 | yeti | I finally found a real moden with USB... |
| 13:17.56 | mason | Most I've used were telnet-only, but that was decades ago. |
| 13:18.24 | yeti | after 2 softmodems which dont work in penguinland... |
| 13:18.26 | fsmithred | I want to see text-to-speech directed to a transducer connected to the wire that goes to the tin can on the receiving end |
| 13:19.21 | yeti | if they use a stiff cable, they should be able to do bandwidths good enough for lowend videophones |
| 13:20.08 | fsmithred | you're talking about tranmitting the video signal in vibrations? |
| 13:20.38 | hemimaniac | I'd like to see text to speech anything, seems for reasons of licensing and what not TtS is fairly behind in Linux in general |
| 13:20.41 | yeti | you should be able to get higher frequencies thru steel cable |
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| 14:02.24 | ham5urg | I started to look into socat. |
| 14:03.05 | ham5urg | ser2net |
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| 14:54.15 | golinux | Are we bored yet? |
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| 14:57.26 | fsmithred | I got my excitement for the day - did laundry and emptied the mouse hotel. |
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| 15:11.27 | paynode | does this channel +q +m +r during spam waves? i have a hard time convincing ops on other channels to allow unreg |
| 15:11.58 | paynode | and how bad does the spam get? sometimes there isnt an op that can react 24/7, maybe thats why they dont like it |
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| 15:39.25 | MinceR | we used to have +q $~a |
| 15:39.31 | MinceR | which mutes unregistered users |
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| 16:07.47 | paynode | MinceR: what prompted the change? unreg users asking nicely to remove it? |
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| 16:11.55 | MinceR | not sure, but the spamming seems to have subsided |
| 16:15.12 | paynode | i agree |
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| 19:15.51 | nemo | brocashelm: hey, you around today? |
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| 19:38.37 | brocashelm | nemo: maybe |
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| 19:44.26 | nemo | brocashelm: was curious if you have same AMD card more or less as I |
| 19:44.37 | nemo | brocashelm: and if you have a more elegant solution to getting AMD running than mine |
| 19:44.42 | nemo | 'cause it seemed we were in a similar situation |
| 19:48.33 | brocashelm | nemo: ah i see. i use rx 480 and rx 540 cards. i mostly just updated my configs in /usr/share/X11/xorg.conf.d/ to tweak their performances and use the non-free firmware-amd-graphics |
| 19:49.43 | brocashelm | i also have some legacy hd (6450 and 7450) cards and they run just fine for me |
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| 19:50.44 | brocashelm | what issues are you having with your amd? |
| 19:53.16 | nemo | brocashelm: well, the thing detailed in the link I sent you |
| 19:53.25 | nemo | brocashelm: but... sounds like your card is actually supported |
| 19:53.32 | nemo | so different situation |
| 20:01.13 | brocashelm | yeah, amd drivers still have a way to go before it's fully foss and updates can be made quicker on linux |
| 20:01.21 | brocashelm | *long way |
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| 20:03.35 | nemo | brocashelm: well in this case it seems to just be new hardware and debian being slow as usual |
| 20:03.46 | nemo | brocashelm: combined with AMD being kinda crappy at packaging/maintaining their own |
| 20:03.51 | brocashelm | yup |
| 20:05.21 | brocashelm | probably better to use a different distro (especially rolling release) if you want to utilize that card |
| 20:11.59 | nemo | brocashelm: I 'spose. I just figure devuan will eventually catch up |
| 20:12.36 | nemo | brocashelm: and, for living room machine wanted a relatively low-surprise distro with a lot of documentation that I still was fairly familiar with |
| 20:13.01 | nemo | brocashelm: the pinning is irritating, but not too much of a deviation, and I'm hoping AMD will fix their ABI level soon |
| 20:15.17 | brocashelm | i try to avoid pinning as much as i can. i agree that it creates a web of problems |
| 20:15.59 | nemo | brocashelm: I have to do it on work machines for kernel due to the malware they force us to install |
| 20:16.04 | nemo | I should see if that situation has changed too |
| 20:16.07 | brocashelm | do you have another amd card that could work with the driver? |
| 20:16.14 | nemo | no |
| 20:18.47 | brocashelm | this is the rx 550 i have that works (although my lga 775 mobo doesn't like it when i try to go into setup): https://www.novatech.co.uk/products/msi-amd-radeon-rx-550-2gb-aero-itx-oc-graphics-card/rx550aeroitx2goc.html |
| 20:21.08 | gnarface | nemo: did you try out the beowulf-backports kernel and firmware? |
| 20:21.23 | gnarface | nemo: it might also be worth trying out ceres |
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| 20:22.38 | nemo | gnarface: um... detailed the backports tested in there |
| 20:23.15 | nemo | I did not try ceres, but that seemed riskier than just using an old Xorg |
| 20:23.49 | nemo | I did test latest bleeding edge firmware as noted that rolfie said I should try |
| 20:24.03 | brocashelm | i'm using ceres myself and not having any problems, but i know that it's not meant for everyday/normal use |
| 20:24.05 | nemo | gnarface: I'd linked you to https://m8y.org/tmp/amdgpu.html mostly in hopes you were trying similar things on a similar card ⺠|
| 20:24.24 | nemo | brocashelm: yeah, this is the machine everyone in family uses for play, and I was loath to be too experimental with it |
| 20:24.58 | brocashelm | nemo: fair enough, lol |
| 20:26.05 | nemo | hm. I should see if there's a new AMDGPU PRO |
| 20:26.10 | nemo | maybe they fixed the ABI thing |
| 20:26.24 | brocashelm | i'm also using vulkan drivers |
| 20:27.58 | brocashelm | for what it's worth, it could have been worse with nvidia |
| 20:29.27 | gnarface | nemo: oh sorry. i wouldn't have clicked on a unfamiliar domain but i'm not using any recent amd cards here anyway |
| 20:30.11 | gnarface | nemo: i wouldn't recommend replacing your main install with ceres, but i thought it would be a worthwhile test if you have a spare drive and some spare time |
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| 20:31.06 | gnarface | nemo: (the operating hypothesis being that maybe backports kernel&firmware alone isn't enough and maybe you need newer mesa, libc, xorg, and who knows what else) |
| 20:31.09 | nemo | gnarface: oh. I tab completed you by mistake. I meant to say brocashelm |
| 20:31.19 | nemo | but. thanks for responding to the highlight anyway ⺠|
| 20:31.37 | gnarface | no worries, i'm still curious about support status of these cards |
| 20:31.58 | nemo | I'm hunting around on AMD website to try and find what the heck the latest version of their AMD GPUPRO package is anyway... |
| 20:32.05 | nemo | it's not something that I'm finding easy to locate |
| 20:32.18 | nemo | which seems to be par for course with graphics cards, drivers, and linux. or even windows. |
| 20:32.31 | brocashelm | sorry, i actually didn't notice the link the first time around. i appreciate bringing it up again |
| 20:32.38 | nemo | I keep getting release notes and not the download page |
| 20:33.16 | nemo | brocashelm: well we veered off into a long discussion of general AMD and systemd fail so it may have gotten lost in noise, I tried highlighting you one more time after, but you may have gone to bed or something |
| 20:33.57 | nemo | https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/faq/amdgpu-installation this page for example. where are the download links? |
| 20:35.15 | nemo | Packages:Maintainer: Advenced Micro Devices (AMD) <slava.grigorev@amd.com> |
| 20:35.18 | nemo | lol |
| 20:35.20 | nemo | well at least I know who to email |
| 20:35.28 | nemo | although the typos do not inspire confidence |
| 20:35.41 | brocashelm | gotta get your voice heard, lol |
| 20:35.53 | nemo | eh. shouldn't be mean. looks like russian name. maybe that's how he mentally pronounces advanced |
| 20:36.09 | nemo | I have all kinds of mental transcription issues when I type |
| 20:36.40 | nemo | looks like they made a dropbox at some point Advanced Micro Devices (AMD) <gpudriverdevsupport@amd.com> |
| 20:39.23 | nemo | ok. they are up to 20.30 |
| 20:39.28 | nemo | so maybe I should try updating |
| 20:39.58 | nemo | "Introducing full support for Ubuntu 20.04.1" |
| 20:40.06 | nemo | "oups we forgot our Xorg ABI support" |
| 20:40.11 | nemo | my speculation ð |
| 20:40.23 | nemo | https://www.amd.com/en/support/kb/release-notes/rn-amdgpu-unified-linux-20-30 |
| 20:41.05 | nemo | hmmm they have 20.04 ubuntu and 18.04 ubuntu |
| 20:41.10 | nemo | I wonder which one is closest to beowulf |
| 20:41.18 | nemo | probably kernel is most critical concern |
| 20:41.47 | nemo | does anyone here happen to know which ubuntu is most likely to have a compatible kernel when installing .deb binaries? |
| 20:42.04 | nemo | starts researching |
| 20:42.17 | nemo | looks like I used 18.04 last time actually. guess I should just keep doing that |
| 20:42.21 | nemo | since it worked once... |
| 20:42.27 | nemo | downside is the abi problem might still be there |
| 20:59.59 | nemo | oooh one cool change in their installer |
| 20:59.59 | nemo | WARNING: This package was intended to be installed on Ubuntu 18.04 and may not work as expected on Devuan GNU/Linux 3. |
| 21:00.03 | nemo | ⥠|
| 21:00.08 | nemo | no more force fix |
| 21:00.16 | golinux | Hahahah! |
| 21:01.39 | gnarface | i would have recommended against it... |
| 21:01.49 | nemo | gnarface: you think 20.04 is better? |
| 21:02.01 | gnarface | i would have recommended against using ubuntu packages |
| 21:02.04 | gnarface | but it might work |
| 21:02.04 | nemo | ah ð |
| 21:02.09 | nemo | gnarface: well it did last time |
| 21:02.14 | gnarface | you didn't connect to their repo, did you? |
| 21:02.17 | nemo | gnarface: it's more what AMD "officially" supports |
| 21:02.28 | gnarface | make sure not to get extra packages from their repo |
| 21:02.33 | nemo | gnarface: this is just the AMD driver. it sets up a file:/// repo with the packages they deliver |
| 21:02.33 | gnarface | make sure you didn't* |
| 21:02.49 | nemo | gnarface: if it effs up, their uninstaller backs them out and removes the file:/// |
| 21:03.00 | gnarface | probably safer then |
| 21:03.02 | nemo | in the closed source world support for linux, this is downright polite |
| 21:03.04 | gnarface | but still might make a mess |
| 21:03.17 | nemo | gnarface: yeah, the mess nvidia made when I used their installer I still have not fully cleaned up |
| 21:03.28 | nemo | I suspect I will only fully clean it up when I do a devuan reinstall |
| 21:03.40 | nemo | but the amd one I've backed out 3 times now without problems |
| 21:04.40 | nemo | welp. time to remove the pin |
| 21:04.46 | nemo | if it fails to launch X, back it goes! |
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| 22:01.24 | nemo | the answer is... pin still required with latest version |
| 22:01.39 | nemo | presumably ubuntu 18.04 was on an older X and they are pretty serious about what they support |
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| 22:26.45 | paynode | are some amd gpu cards "just working" or is it mostly intel cards that work great on devuan/other? |
| 22:28.22 | gnarface | ouch |
| 22:28.30 | gnarface | might be true |
| 22:28.55 | gnarface | although the newer nvidia cards do actually work pretty well for the most part if you get the backports or newer driver & kernel for them |
| 22:29.04 | gnarface | ... unless you care about sleep |
| 22:29.10 | gnarface | they seem to really suck with sleep |
| 22:29.29 | gnarface | corrupted buffers on resume and such |
| 22:29.34 | gnarface | the windows driver doesn't have that problem |
| 22:29.56 | gnarface | so does that count as "just working" or not? |
| 22:30.18 | gnarface | the gaming experience is on par with windows for many games at least |
| 22:31.02 | gnarface | even all the intel hardware doesn't "just work" if you're counting everything like video decoding |
| 22:31.21 | gnarface | but you have to be less careful about which models you buy with intel yea probably |
| 22:31.47 | gnarface | but at best the performance will be marginal |
| 22:38.48 | paynode | you mean s/sleep/suspend/? |
| 22:39.14 | gnarface | yea i guess |
| 22:40.14 | *** join/#devuan ham5urg (~ham5urg@p2e54d14e.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:40.24 | paynode | amd seems slower to provide drivers (for the kernel as well) took 2-4 years before suspend and brightness worked on an all-in-one |
| 22:40.40 | paynode | and im not even sure those were blobless drivers... |
| 22:41.05 | paynode | unlike intel which seems to stay pretty blobless, i think, other than microcode/fsp and such |
| 22:44.48 | gnarface | well... kinda |
| 22:45.01 | gnarface | intel stuff has blobs too, it's just that they gave a license to the kernel so they can be distributed with it |
| 22:45.13 | gnarface | amd and nvidia won't change their licenses to do that |
| 22:45.25 | gnarface | but at least what amd does is make a driver that will give you basic functionality without the firmware |
| 22:45.38 | gnarface | so if you don't care about performance you can still use one to get work done with all free software |
| 22:45.49 | gnarface | nvidia doesn't do that |
| 22:46.38 | gnarface | the open source driver for nvidia cards (nouveau) is entirely 3rd party... and their developers all by policy tell people don't even buy nvidia cards |
| 22:48.27 | gnarface | and they don't have full power management support for any card either |
| 22:49.55 | paynode | "developers all by policy tell people don't even buy nvidia cards" could u rephrase? |
| 22:51.06 | gnarface | i mean if you ask them which nvidia card to buy, they have a policy of telling you not to buy one at all |
| 22:51.37 | gnarface | the nouveau developers themselves would be the first people to advise you to never put yourself in a position where you depend on nouveau |
| 22:52.42 | gnarface | that's another thing intel and amd aren't doing so far; obsoleting cards |
| 22:52.53 | gnarface | nvidia obsoleted everything older than the 600 series |
| 22:53.05 | gnarface | which probably itself doesn't have long left |
| 22:54.22 | gnarface | so it's actually still possible to game on steam with some games on a really old intel or amd card, like something from the 90's |
| 22:54.48 | gnarface | whereas you can't even run the steam client if you have too old of a nvidia card |
| 22:55.55 | gnarface | blizzard games in particular also seem to be in lock-step with nvidia's planned obsolescence schedule |
| 22:56.09 | gnarface | something shady is going on there |
| 22:56.34 | gnarface | so yea, it seems like you have to choose between performance or support, and the more performance you get the more evil you have to stomach with it |
| 23:03.58 | *** part/#devuan conifer (~conifer@gateway/tor-sasl/conifer) |
| 23:04.18 | paynode | well the stock prices go up faster the more blobby/evil the company is...between those 3 at least |
| 23:04.50 | gnarface | yea nvidia's at $429 today i think |
| 23:04.56 | gnarface | that's just ridiculous |
| 23:05.53 | gnarface | i would say just pick a amd card carefully... something real popular and mostly working already and hope they fix the rest |
| 23:06.07 | gnarface | of the 3 companies amd deserves it the most |
| 23:06.17 | gnarface | what we really need is a open source gpu though |
| 23:06.20 | gnarface | something that doesn't suck |
| 23:06.52 | gnarface | anyway, enough of my off-topic soapboxing |
| 23:07.18 | *** join/#devuan sgage (~sgage@h69-131-19-95.cntcnh.broadband.dynamic.tds.net) |
| 23:13.11 | *** join/#devuan shibboleth (~shibbolet@gateway/tor-sasl/shibboleth) |
| 23:14.05 | paynode | theres talk of oshw gpu's on talos-workstation, but i dont think its anything very concrete/wellfunded |
| 23:21.46 | *** part/#devuan james1138 (~James1138@71.36.13.61) |