| 00:01.07 | *** join/#devuan chapolin (~chapolin@173.239.199.6) |
| 00:01.11 | chapolin | jesus christ |
| 00:01.16 | chapolin | that line |
| 00:01.30 | chapolin | i aged 30 years because of her |
| 00:01.55 | chapolin | systemd comes to haunt even when you are trying to hide |
| 00:02.06 | chapolin | thank you very much guys |
| 00:02.36 | chapolin | a simple logout was enough :D |
| 00:02.44 | chapolin | and a comment |
| 00:07.03 | chapolin | thank you fsmithred and gnarface |
| 00:07.24 | gnarface | no problem chapolin, glad you got it working |
| 00:07.48 | chapolin | the no systemd people are very nice |
| 00:07.49 | chapolin | :D |
| 00:08.13 | gnarface | we all remember what it was like before |
| 00:08.27 | fsmithred | :) |
| 00:08.41 | chapolin | the only thing i know is the number of cves related to systemd |
| 00:08.47 | fsmithred | read the release notes. There are a few other weird little things like this one. |
| 00:09.00 | fsmithred | how do you keep track of them??? |
| 00:09.21 | chapolin | and slackware is not getting it...but i am liking the apt tools |
| 00:09.54 | chapolin | already only 3 distros to my knowledge that not stick to that shit |
| 00:09.56 | fsmithred | you might like the huge repository, too |
| 00:10.06 | chapolin | yeah |
| 00:10.11 | chapolin | this is really good |
| 00:10.22 | chapolin | but i miss building tarballs |
| 00:10.35 | *** join/#devuan Garb0__ (~Garb0@unaffiliated/garb0) |
| 00:11.48 | fsmithred | learn to make deb packages |
| 00:11.55 | stiltr | Nothing stopping you from building your own tarballs. haha |
| 00:12.03 | buZz | fsmithred: man, i wish |
| 00:12.03 | chapolin | yeah...i am on that as we speak |
| 00:12.09 | buZz | that stuff is magic to me :P |
| 00:12.11 | chapolin | haueuhaehu |
| 00:12.26 | fsmithred | me too, buzz |
| 00:12.29 | stiltr | It's a real pain at first, but once you get it sorted out it's not too bad. |
| 00:12.53 | stiltr | If you aren't planning to get them into the repos, it's considerably simpler. |
| 00:13.04 | fsmithred | yeah, I know |
| 00:14.16 | stiltr | That first apt install my-package is pretty magical though. haha |
| 00:14.38 | buZz | :) |
| 00:14.47 | buZz | well, at least i'm getting merged in code commits |
| 00:15.33 | stiltr | Also a great feeling. :) |
| 00:16.36 | justmakeitwork | hello guys, I noticed a few bugs that I was able to fix but that may give new users a lot of frustration... this is from the 3.6 gb offline 'cdrom' install 1) user is not in the sudoers file, fixed by editing /etc/sodoers 2) after install the Cdrom repo is not disabled and caused an error where it asks for the next cd in the middle of using apt-get, fixed by commenting out appropriate lines in /etc/apt/sources.list 3) |
| 00:16.36 | justmakeitwork | the pulse audio isn't working properly, fixed by commenting out 'autospawn-no' in /etc/pulse/client.conf.d/00-disable-autospawn.conf |
| 00:16.52 | buZz | 1) isnt a bug |
| 00:17.04 | buZz | 2) is normal behaviour aswell |
| 00:17.15 | buZz | 3) might be a bug? not sure |
| 00:17.17 | justmakeitwork | lol |
| 00:17.22 | buZz | i tend to avoid pulse audio |
| 00:17.49 | justmakeitwork | how are they not bugs, they stop the system working properly |
| 00:17.54 | buZz | nope |
| 00:18.11 | justmakeitwork | are you always root? |
| 00:18.13 | buZz | adding users to sudo is not default behaviour |
| 00:18.41 | chapolin | stiltr, That first apt install my-package is pretty magical though. haha |
| 00:18.43 | chapolin | it sure is |
| 00:18.49 | buZz | and installing from source X will add that to apt sources.list |
| 00:19.03 | chapolin | im building a .deb of calibre 4.99 whit all the python3 modules |
| 00:19.20 | chapolin | but without my news channel it was driving me insane |
| 00:19.21 | chapolin | hehe |
| 00:19.49 | stiltr | oh hey justmakeitwork, did you get a chance to try out the obs-studio backport? |
| 00:19.54 | chapolin | the official repo calibre is all fucked up...with libs from p3 and p2 |
| 00:19.57 | justmakeitwork | 'cdrom' sources should be commented out automatically after install |
| 00:20.04 | stiltr | chapolin: Sounds like a mess... |
| 00:21.12 | chapolin | buZz, i tend to avoid pulseaudio aswell...but i cant find a alsa plugin for xfce |
| 00:21.13 | justmakeitwork | not yet stiltr, although I saw the last recommendations and saved them |
| 00:21.20 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: usually that happens if you didn't finish configuring networking during install, i think |
| 00:21.28 | buZz | chapolin: what does that mean, why does a window manager need to make sound? |
| 00:21.41 | stiltr | justmakeitwork: No worries. I was just curious. :) |
| 00:21.42 | chapolin | and i already have 30 terminals at the same time to open one more for managing volume |
| 00:22.03 | justmakeitwork | gnarface, networking was enabled |
| 00:22.11 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: around here, bugs due to systemd usually get fixed, but the bugs that are not related to systemd that the debian people are just living with, we mostly just live with too |
| 00:22.15 | chapolin | the slackware current work flawlessly with pulseaudio from the get go |
| 00:23.30 | chapolin | stiltr, i didnt get it...what seen to be a mess? |
| 00:23.43 | chapolin | calibre with the p3 modules? |
| 00:24.00 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: if you want to pursue this, first make sure you have the latest version of that disk, then make sure the debian equivalent *doesn't* do it, then if you file a bug report it will get taken seriously here (not necessarily actually fixed or addressed, but at least taken seriously). if the debian version does it too though you're gonna get more traction reporting it upstream... they have way more people |
| 00:24.30 | stiltr | chapolin: Yeah, the py2/3 libs in calibre. Sorry, should have been clearer. |
| 00:24.53 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: but, and this is important, that all sounded like expected behavior to me |
| 00:25.02 | chapolin | no...you were clear...but theres other people talking and cut the line of tought |
| 00:25.15 | chapolin | calibre 4.99 its only p3 modules |
| 00:25.20 | chapolin | no more p2 and p3 |
| 00:25.37 | chapolin | but the solution is building from git repositories |
| 00:25.56 | chapolin | and i want to make a .deb to send to devuan developers |
| 00:26.05 | chapolin | i really like calibre |
| 00:26.05 | justmakeitwork | OK gnarface, I guess I am just dumb but I think a newer user could use that information |
| 00:26.25 | justmakeitwork | especially the pulseaudio issue |
| 00:26.32 | chapolin | and i think more people should get it working ok...since this year p2 will be out |
| 00:26.59 | stiltr | chapolin: 4.99 is in ceres. Probably easier to backport. It'll handle all the deb stuff for you. |
| 00:27.17 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: i agree completely that it isn't fair, i'm just trying to help you understand the economics of the situation before you get too emotionally invested |
| 00:27.39 | chapolin | aye...its not giving me more work than i thougth it would |
| 00:27.41 | justmakeitwork | I'll make a post on the forum maybe lol, I just want to make it easier for others |
| 00:27.54 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: that's a great idea |
| 00:28.47 | chapolin | is there an bug report email system on devuan so i can subscribe? |
| 00:29.02 | chapolin | i love debugging |
| 00:29.20 | gnarface | well there's http://bugs.devuan.org/ |
| 00:29.27 | gnarface | i don't know if the reports go out on a mailing list or not |
| 00:29.33 | chapolin | but there is a mailing list? |
| 00:29.45 | gnarface | there is a mailing list, but i don't know what's on it |
| 00:30.01 | chapolin | ok...i will look at it |
| 00:30.31 | gnarface | mailing lists are linked to here: https://devuan.org/os/community |
| 00:30.50 | gnarface | looks like there's 3 of them actually |
| 00:31.14 | buZz | i'm on the DNG one, its kinda nice, not really devuanonly though |
| 00:37.10 | chapolin | yeah...three of them...the devuan-dev is what i was looking for |
| 00:37.38 | chapolin | we should help as much as we can...otherwise systemd will be inevitable |
| 00:38.16 | chapolin | and thats when our beloved os will become microsoftsized |
| 00:38.24 | chapolin | god forbid |
| 00:39.02 | chapolin | a lot of news lately saying steam is investing tons of money in linux to run steam games |
| 00:39.11 | buZz | IBMized you mean? :P |
| 00:39.12 | fsmithred | justmakeitwork, the pulseaudio issue is covered in the release notes |
| 00:39.25 | buZz | chapolin: what do you mean news :P you can see it right on steam |
| 00:39.26 | chapolin | yeah buZz |
| 00:39.26 | fsmithred | pretty close to the top |
| 00:39.33 | buZz | 1% of players 24/7 are running linux |
| 00:39.39 | buZz | thats about 0.2M ppl |
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| 00:40.04 | buZz | also dxvk and proton are amazing stuff |
| 00:40.29 | chapolin | yeah buZz ...but looks like they are seeing some potential to detrone microsoft in this battle |
| 00:40.35 | buZz | and over 50% of top500 games on steam have native linux version |
| 00:40.42 | buZz | have for over 3 years now, i think |
| 00:40.44 | chapolin | specially with this very easy distros |
| 00:40.52 | chapolin | coming everyday |
| 00:40.54 | buZz | steamos? thats pretty dead |
| 00:41.03 | buZz | there is #steamlug , fyi |
| 00:41.05 | chapolin | no no |
| 00:41.09 | chapolin | not steamos |
| 00:41.36 | chapolin | its some kind of partnership to increase the number of people using steam under linux distros |
| 00:42.31 | chapolin | i will look in my reasearch os to grab some links to show to you...microsoft did something that they dont like and they are turning to linux with all their cards |
| 00:42.46 | chapolin | its something "new" |
| 00:42.55 | chapolin | this year resolution kind of new |
| 00:43.30 | chapolin | instead of reviving steam os they are working with fedora/redhat team to get all games transitioned |
| 00:44.00 | chapolin | with my hardware i have at least 10% more fps in slackware |
| 00:44.11 | chapolin | devuan i didnt install yet |
| 00:44.30 | chapolin | doom eternal i run at 250fps in 4k |
| 00:44.43 | chapolin | in slackware...and 120 in windows |
| 00:45.00 | gnarface | chapolin: that's actually old news in internet years. the steam package is in the non-free section of the repo. this was all fallout from a rumor that microsoft would discontinue directx in windows 10 that turned out to be completely unfounded. damage done anyway. |
| 00:46.09 | chapolin | gnarface, yes...for internet news its old...but this year things got in 6th gear as far as i know |
| 00:46.10 | gnarface | chapolin: oh i think they were also going to try to force all publishers to use their store as an exclusive sales gateway, which would have put most of them in direct violation of pre-existing contracts with activision, EA, and valve |
| 00:46.58 | buZz | fyi, higher fps on linux 'windows emulated' games is not uncommon |
| 00:46.59 | gnarface | chapolin: and nvidia was caught nerfing their linux driver at the same time, but was unhappy with microsoft for stuff related to announced win10 api changes too, and projected effects on future sales |
| 00:47.06 | buZz | even in stuff like GTA5 |
| 00:47.16 | gnarface | chapolin: so they were able to light a fire under everyone by getting nvidia to stop making tf2 suck in linux :) |
| 00:47.34 | chapolin | buZz, im not talking about windows emulated games...im talking about native games |
| 00:47.45 | buZz | thats cool, i'm just saying |
| 00:47.48 | onefang | Think you have strayed off topic. |
| 00:48.01 | chapolin | windows emulated in my experience its about 10% increase |
| 00:48.02 | gnarface | alright, we're off topic and it's partially my fault. but i'll help anyone get steam working if they want it |
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| 00:48.13 | chapolin | but natively build games is far more than this |
| 00:48.20 | buZz | gnarface: barely anything beside 'apt install steam' needed? :D |
| 00:48.29 | buZz | provided you have non-free enabled |
| 00:48.48 | gnarface | buZz: that's all it should take in a fair world but there's a bunch of corner cases depending on your video hardware |
| 00:49.07 | chapolin | buZz, i have non free enabled by default in devuan...its not normal? |
| 00:49.33 | buZz | well, depends on how long your neckbeard is |
| 00:49.39 | chapolin | huaeuheauhaeuheauh |
| 00:49.42 | gnarface | buZz: (getting steam itself working is that easy, but it isn't capable of fixing the driver/opengl setup, which is often wrong by default) |
| 00:49.51 | buZz | ah yes, totally |
| 00:49.54 | chapolin | jesus...neckbeard no pls |
| 00:50.06 | chapolin | *no neckberard pls |
| 00:50.07 | buZz | maybe someday nouveaux will work fast enough ;0 |
| 00:50.18 | gnarface | i hear it is if you have a gtx 780 |
| 00:50.22 | buZz | chapolin: dont worry, with all the facemasks, you can tell now anyway |
| 00:50.27 | gnarface | pretty much only that one, the gtx780 |
| 00:50.30 | chapolin | huaehueauhaeuaheuheauhaeuh |
| 00:50.31 | buZz | hehe |
| 00:50.34 | chapolin | that so true |
| 00:50.36 | buZz | gtx1060 here |
| 00:50.45 | chapolin | i have a 2080ti |
| 00:50.59 | gnarface | no hope of either of those working in nouveau, probably ever |
| 00:51.08 | buZz | thats fine |
| 00:51.10 | chapolin | and work flawlessly with official nvidia drivers |
| 00:51.13 | buZz | actually it does work sorta |
| 00:51.18 | buZz | just not really fast |
| 00:51.51 | gnarface | the hardware acceleration parts of the 900 and later series cards require cryptographically signed firmware and nvidia isn't coughing up the keys despite promising years ago they would |
| 00:51.54 | chapolin | the only thing i noticed with the nvidia drivers is a lot o tearing under scrolling in firefox |
| 00:52.02 | chapolin | or chromium for that mather |
| 00:52.11 | chapolin | in slackware aswell |
| 00:53.00 | gnarface | there are actually plenty of good games on steam that would be fine on modern hardware even with software rendering |
| 00:53.14 | gnarface | they're not the ones people have heard of though |
| 00:54.01 | gnarface | in beowulf it should be fairly straightforward now but for ascii you would require the kernel and nvidia drivers from backports for a lot of the games |
| 00:54.31 | gnarface | also same goes for recent AMD video cards in that respect |
| 00:55.20 | chapolin | yeah...i have tried ascii one week before the beowulf release...worked bad enough to get slackware again...lucky for me a few days later beowulf released |
| 00:55.41 | chapolin | but slackware with 5.*.* kernels works even better |
| 00:55.55 | gnarface | despite lower requirements of steam itself, a bunch of games require nvidia 340.xx or later drivers, or mesa i think like 19.x or 20.x something like that |
| 00:57.24 | buZz | thank god for backports :) |
| 00:57.29 | chapolin | aye...thats one problem i came across...unfortunately for us the binary nature of nvidia drivers get in the way...if was open source a few modified lines should solve this |
| 00:59.39 | chapolin | i am using the debian handbook to study about .deb packages, is there something more compreensive about the subject? |
| 00:59.54 | gnarface | yes |
| 01:00.12 | gnarface | https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/ |
| 01:00.35 | gnarface | (i saw someone link a presumably more streamlined devuan version of this recently but i didn't save the link) |
| 01:01.14 | chapolin | thanks again...very nice community here...happy with that... |
| 01:01.49 | chapolin | not a problem...i will do a more comprehensive research today...all weekend to work things out |
| 01:02.12 | gnarface | if you just want to build some packages skip forward to chapter 6 |
| 01:02.49 | gnarface | they designed that guide as some sort of sadistic litmus test |
| 01:02.50 | chapolin | ok...i will look into that right now. |
| 01:02.56 | chapolin | hauehueahuea |
| 01:03.38 | stiltr | Yeah, it's quite a read... haha |
| 01:03.41 | chapolin | "sadistic" its a really real way to describe linux guides |
| 01:05.08 | gnarface | fsmithred: do you have that link to the devuan new maintainer's guide? |
| 01:05.24 | fsmithred | yeah, one sec |
| 01:05.35 | gnarface | google insists that i must mean the debian one :( |
| 01:05.53 | stiltr | Oh nice. I'd be interested in that as well. |
| 01:06.31 | stiltr | After enough times of saying "no I don't mean debian" google usually gets the message. |
| 01:07.45 | chapolin | the official DEBIAN repositories do not work with devuan right? the systemd deps will get in the way right? |
| 01:08.10 | fsmithred | https://gitea.devuan.dev/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/maintainers |
| 01:08.37 | gnarface | chapolin: ^ here it is |
| 01:08.41 | fsmithred | that link just changed. It might change back to what it was before. Not sure. |
| 01:08.52 | gnarface | chapolin: (and yea, don't use the debian repos. it'll look like it works initially but systemd can sneak in and make a mess) |
| 01:09.03 | chapolin | fsmithred, open already and bookmarked |
| 01:09.27 | fsmithred | git is in the process of being moved |
| 01:09.44 | chapolin | gnarface, yeah...i suspected that would be a problem |
| 01:12.30 | stiltr | Thanks for the link fsmithred! |
| 01:12.47 | fsmithred | yw |
| 01:12.59 | chapolin | yeah...thanks for the link fsmithred...very good read |
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| 02:02.50 | justmakeitwork | Tried using amesser's build instructions from yesterday https://pastebin.com/qFSx4sTe , hunted down dependencies until there was only one, but it would not install libsimde-dev https://postimg.cc/75RXQ48H ... I seem to recall a similar thing happening when I tried following the Debian build instructions on the obs-studio site |
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| 02:15.46 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: looks like something weird might be going on with the package right now |
| 02:16.04 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: it was in ceres as of this time yesterday but i'm not seeing it there right now |
| 02:17.00 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: it still shows up on packages.debian.org but not on http://packages.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 02:17.40 | gnarface | justmakeitwork: my best guess is they're doing something to it upstream that required temporarily removing it to replace it or fix something else, or something like that |
| 02:27.14 | justmakeitwork | 0.0.1 for life :-) |
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| 02:38.40 | stiltr | justmakeitwork: Did the debs not work? |
| 02:41.20 | justmakeitwork | it didn't get that far, if you look at the postimg above, I took care of about 20 dependencies that it kept getting hung up on except for the last one, libsimde-dev |
| 02:42.25 | stiltr | I posted a link to the backported debs. I had to backport libsimde to get it to compile, but you don't need it to run. |
| 02:43.06 | stiltr | https://stiles-engineering.com/obs-backport/ |
| 02:43.17 | stiltr | If you want. |
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| 02:44.28 | justmakeitwork | I was just thinking that too stiltr, should I add backports to sources.list and see if apt finds it? |
| 02:45.20 | stiltr | It's not an official backport, so it won't be in beowulf-backports. It's just something I did the other day when you mentioned it. |
| 02:46.40 | stiltr | If you want to do it yourself, you can follow the steps here https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation |
| 02:47.16 | stiltr | You'll have to create and install a deb for libsimde-dev before you can do one for obs. |
| 02:47.55 | justmakeitwork | oh cool, I'll have to try that |
| 02:48.50 | stiltr | Oh, I think I had to change a dependency in libsimde. I think it was debconf to 12 instead of 13. |
| 02:49.47 | stiltr | Oh, looks like I still have the libsimde deb if you want it. |
| 02:50.03 | justmakeitwork | dbuilder kept complaining that it was expecting obs-studio... ...tar.gz files(see the postimg link above), does that matter? |
| 02:51.22 | stiltr | Nah, the .tar.gz is fine. It's that debhelper-compat that's blocking you. |
| 02:51.43 | stiltr | You need to change the debian/control file to depend on 12 instead of 13. |
| 02:52.36 | stiltr | Build-Depends: debhelper-compat (=12), |
| 02:52.37 | justmakeitwork | the numbers referring to os versions? |
| 02:54.03 | stiltr | It's a package. debhelper-12.1.1 is the latest in beowulf. |
| 02:54.33 | stiltr | 13 is in ceres, so the ceres package depends on it, but it'll work with 12. |
| 02:55.55 | stiltr | Oddly libsimde took considerably longer to compile than obs-studio did. At least for me. |
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| 07:48.04 | systemdlete | Wonderful. I've got me a zombie owned by process 1. The only way to get rid of it is to reboot... how did this happen? The process, "Web Content" is spawned by firefox-esr (latest version). I don't think I've run into this in a long, long time! Is there an alternative to rebooting the host? |
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| 07:48.52 | systemdlete | According to the ps(1) man page, zombies will be killed by the parent if it receives a SIGCHLD. I tried that, on both the zombie and on init(!). |
| 07:49.08 | systemdlete | s/will be killed/will be cleaned up/ |
| 07:49.44 | systemdlete | This is still ascii, btw. I haven't upgraded to beowulf yet, and may not for a bit. |
| 08:00.21 | systemdlete | Is init not working on devua--- init. Init. INIT!!! Is it possible that somehow, some way, surgically removing the cancer from the body Linux has not caused an undesired outcome? IDK. I haven't studied it that deeply myself. |
| 08:00.43 | systemdlete | anyway, looks like reboot is my ONLY option. If I ever want ps to work ever again. |
| 08:01.05 | systemdlete | Ps and htop hang now. Even though they are not the offending process. |
| 08:01.24 | crashoverride | is the offensive process PID1? |
| 08:01.51 | systemdlete | no. It's a defunct "Web Content" process, spawned by firefox-esr (see above) |
| 08:02.18 | crashoverride | yeah sorry I am on a small screen with a flaky connection. |
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| 08:34.17 | kiwii | Hi which devuan equals to deb9 |
| 08:40.57 | gnarface | kiwii: ascii |
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| 08:41.49 | gnarface | kiwii: (devuan 2) |
| 08:42.05 | kiwii | Do you use beowulf if yes would you try install xtables-addons-common |
| 08:42.16 | kiwii | Is it available or no |
| 08:43.18 | gnarface | kiwii: i think it's not available in beowulf currently. i'm only seeing it in ascii and jessie: pkginfo.devuan.org |
| 08:43.31 | gnarface | kiwii: ^ you can search here |
| 08:43.32 | kiwii | Thabks |
| 08:44.40 | gnarface | kiwii: according to packages.debian.org it isn't in debian 10 either |
| 08:45.52 | gnarface | kiwii: this might be a recent change |
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| 09:04.37 | systemdlete | there is an update for firefox-esr... hoping maybe this might fix it. (Still getting zombies, but after reboot, they do eventually die when I kill the browser). |
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| 10:07.57 | tomtastic | systemdlete You might be able to kill -9 a defunct (zombie) process |
| 10:08.31 | tomtastic | systemdlete Solaris used to have 'preap' to reap the dead. There doesn't seem to be a comparable tool in Linux |
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| 10:11.19 | systemdlete | kill -9 has no effect on Zombies, sadly. |
| 10:11.37 | systemdlete | There is ONLY one (1) solution: Reboot. |
| 10:12.07 | _william_ | which can also be saif for zombies shot in the head :) |
| 10:12.08 | systemdlete | The main issue is not the zombie itself, but what it does to utilities like ps and htop -- they hang. |
| 10:12.20 | _william_ | said |
| 10:12.30 | systemdlete | thanks all |
| 10:55.57 | gnarface | well, there might be one other solution |
| 10:56.12 | gnarface | you might be able to rm -rf /proc/$PID |
| 10:56.24 | gnarface | sometimes that will work on zombies, it hink |
| 10:56.27 | gnarface | *i think |
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| 11:22.03 | tomtastic | gnarface really?! Thats a new one on me |
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| 11:48.11 | yeti | maybe a proc based PS just wont see them any more but they still are sticking in the system? |
| 11:48.59 | yeti | do we still have that kernel-dada-stuructures ps? |
| 11:49.12 | yeti | trying to remember the name... |
| 12:02.52 | gnarface | i don't really know |
| 12:06.39 | yeti | jears (decades?) ago there were 2 PS and TOP flavours |
| 12:06.45 | yeti | y* |
| 12:07.19 | yeti | the old style thingy directly accessing the kernel process lists and the newer proc based (probably slooooower) one |
| 12:07.50 | yeti | in the early days of the proc based process tools I refused to use them because their overhead |
| 12:08.05 | yeti | but meanwhile I cannot even find them any more |
| 12:08.49 | yeti | ditch the probably... the way thru proc IS slower and I saw the difference in top... |
| 12:09.12 | yeti | the cputime of top itself was less for the kernel-top |
| 12:10.11 | yeti | misses the days when software needed to be resource friendly |
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| 12:15.41 | frabbit | upgrade fromascii to beowulf seems problematic, even if u have a base system |
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| 12:16.49 | frabbit | if tried that yesterday on my gaming rig and first it seemed fine, but after reboot and run apt update the system told me that there are packages that are hold back. |
| 12:18.37 | frabbit | i removed the packages wich apt wnated to remove and runned apt -f install, but that does nothing so i runned apt install and_all_hold_back_packages_here and that breaks the xserver as it seems |
| 12:19.14 | frabbit | it removed some x packages and i think alos some of the nvidia stuff i had to install to have my gc working |
| 12:20.54 | frabbit | im not willing to figure out why that was so messy (i just followed fan boys wiki) and will just setup a new system, but ive installed devuan ascii 2.1 on a computer for someone, just a few days before beowulf was released as stable and i dunno now how to handle that machine to upgrade it... |
| 12:21.31 | frabbit | the first time i tried to upgrade to beowulf i did something wrong, but the second time, i did exactly what the wiki says |
| 12:22.03 | frabbit | and im sure on that system where is still ascii it will be the same (and there are even much more packages installed...) |
| 12:23.46 | frabbit | but setting up that system again, this time with beowulf will be a mess... it took me 2 days to insall and configure that beginner system, so the person doesnt need to mess arrounsd with that and sure i have made backups from that configs, but it still sucks that i have to reinstall it now again, just ~ two weeks after fresh new install... |
| 12:25.51 | frabbit | oh and this -> 14:21 < frabbit> the first time i tried to upgrade to beowulf i did something wrong, but the second time, i did exactly what the wiki says <- was on two different macvhines btw |
| 12:26.07 | frabbit | but both with ascii 2.1 |
| 12:26.56 | frabbit | also it is a huge problem when the upgrade process will be that nasty in future releases... |
| 12:27.45 | frabbit | i would have to setup all the machines again i setup for others on every new release... |
| 12:29.41 | frabbit | backup all the data including the configs and then making a fresh new install is not a proper way how beginners can maintain their systems... |
| 12:30.27 | frabbit | but a propper way to steal my lifetime, cause im the one who needs to fix/repair/reinstall these systems then... |
| 12:30.59 | fsmithred | would be good to figure out why you had such trouble. Most upgrades go smoothly. |
| 12:31.08 | frabbit | fsmithred: yeah i know |
| 12:31.23 | frabbit | but i didnt made notices or something |
| 12:31.59 | frabbit | i just thought it would be smoothly... and that was a mistake i know now... =( |
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| 12:34.23 | bbpj10 | hi. I'm probably far from the first to have asked this but I can't find anything searchng the web so here goes: How long does each release (e.g. Beowulf) get supported? Until the Debian release it's based on goes into Debian LTS? Until it gets dropped from Debian LTS? |
| 12:34.30 | frabbit | on my system i still have ascii 2.1 here and after i get my ssd i will try to upgrade it too the way the wiki leads to, just to check if it will fail again. my productive machine has the same base but no nvidia stuff of course, therefor alot of other packages the gaming rig doesnt have |
| 12:35.08 | frabbit | bbpj10: i still get updates here for oldstable ascii 2.1 |
| 12:35.32 | frabbit | just upgraded 4 packages or so in the last week |
| 12:35.50 | bbpj10 | yeah, I wonder until when though. |
| 12:35.55 | frabbit | probably when beowulf gets oldstable ascii will be dropped |
| 12:36.05 | frabbit | but thers still oldoldstable i think |
| 12:36.20 | frabbit | *theres |
| 12:36.42 | frabbit | also still upgrade introductiins from jessie to beowulf |
| 12:37.04 | bbpj10 | Oldoldstable was released as a "LTS" in any case - not sure what LTS here means: it gets supported as long as iirc Jessie hasn't gone into ELTS? |
| 12:37.48 | bbpj10 | I just don't know what that means for the later releases, none of which explicitly stated as "LTS" orr "non-LTS" |
| 12:38.05 | frabbit | LTS=Long Time Support |
| 12:38.24 | frabbit | hm.. |
| 12:38.41 | bbpj10 | yeah, I just can't find exact info on *how* long |
| 12:38.45 | frabbit | im not interested in that term, isnt that a buntu thing? |
| 12:38.47 | fsmithred | yes, look at the debian LTS schedule. Jessie's end of life is this month. |
| 12:39.09 | frabbit | fsmithred: ah so i was right |
| 12:39.23 | fsmithred | https://wiki.debian.org/LTS |
| 12:39.54 | frabbit | so ascii will be supported till June 2022 |
| 12:40.12 | frabbit | from debian... what about devuan specific support? |
| 12:40.15 | bbpj10 | fsmithred: So oldoldstable, whichw as an LTS, gets supported for that long (i.e. until 2 weeks in the future, I think?). Does the same go for ascii and beowulf, even though the term LTS doesn't appear in their release notes? |
| 12:40.40 | fsmithred | ascii=stretch, beowulf=buster |
| 12:40.50 | frabbit | yeah i know |
| 12:40.59 | fsmithred | except for about 200 packages, half of which are language packs |
| 12:41.05 | bbpj10 | After all, they are based on Debian releases which, like Debian 8, will AFAIK get Debian LTS support as well |
| 12:41.30 | frabbit | but arent there devuan specific packages that needs to be maintained by devuan devs? |
| 12:42.19 | fsmithred | yeah, if anything gets a security update, it will likely get ported to the devuan package |
| 12:42.31 | bbpj10 | So would I be correct in saying that Ascii will get supported until 2022, and not until only e.g. later this year when Stretch presumably goes into LTS? |
| 12:42.37 | fsmithred | main thing is kernel, and we don't touch that |
| 12:42.37 | frabbit | nice |
| 12:43.12 | bbpj10 | and thus ascii won't go EOL until, if all goes as planned, 2022? |
| 12:43.25 | frabbit | bbpj10: as it seems |
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| 12:43.32 | frabbit | =) |
| 12:43.49 | frabbit | bbpj10: u want to stay with ascii? |
| 12:43.51 | fsmithred | yeah, stretch goes to june 2022, so ascii will also be good until then |
| 12:44.23 | bbpj10 | frabbit: no, I just don't like installing things with too short a time span between release and EOL |
| 12:44.38 | frabbit | bbpj10: me too |
| 12:45.07 | frabbit | but three years or so is okay (to not forgot how to install a system xD) |
| 12:45.31 | bbpj10 | Which in my case seems a bit irrational since my installs seem to rarely stay as my daily driver for...idk, maybe a couple of semesters? But a long life span does leave me sleeping better at night :p |
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| 13:38.29 | brocashelm | what kernel is devuan beowulf currently on? |
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| 13:40.48 | Atari-Frosch | brocashelm: :~$ uname -a |
| 13:40.48 | Atari-Frosch | Linux seewasser 4.19.0-9-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.118-2 (2020-04-29) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 13:43.35 | brocashelm | nice |
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| 15:52.52 | tuxsvr | loading from Beowulf netinstll. How can I had refractato it? Do I need a desktop loaded first? load refractainstaller and refractasnapshot? |
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| 15:54.51 | gnarface | what are you trying to do? refractasnapshot and refractainstaller are in the repos... |
| 15:55.05 | gnarface | but i don't know why you'd want them in the netinstall, they're for live images |
| 15:56.43 | gnarface | i would assume you'd install them after you finished booting |
| 15:58.31 | tuxsvr | install the refracta after install. Terminal install, no desktop. What do I need to install? can I use apt? |
| 15:59.12 | gnarface | yes, you can use apt |
| 16:00.13 | gnarface | look for packages with refracta in the name |
| 16:00.49 | tuxsvr | no gui parts right? |
| 16:02.04 | gnarface | i think the gui parts are optional |
| 16:02.21 | gnarface | i could be wrong |
| 16:03.53 | tuxsvr | OK will try. Thanks |
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| 16:06.03 | fsmithred | install refractainstaller-base and refractasnapshot-base |
| 16:06.18 | fsmithred | tuxsvr, ^^^ |
| 16:06.59 | fsmithred | gnarface is right; the -gui packages are separate. |
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| 16:19.51 | tuxsvr | Thanks will try. Thanks for the help. |
| 16:22.28 | mason | I'm curious - Debian's shipped intel-microcode 3.20200609, but I'm not seeing that for Beowulf yet. Is this a known hiccough? |
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| 16:25.25 | mason | Re: CVE-2020-0543, CVE-2020-0548, CVE-2020-0549 |
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| 17:29.01 | Dekkard | so.. changing time/date on the live iso crashes the clock.. |
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| 18:02.37 | xrogaan | mason: are you sure it isn't being held back by debian? |
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| 18:04.21 | xrogaan | mason: https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/intel-microcode |
| 18:04.39 | yeti | 3.20200609.2~deb10u1 in buster's security |
| 18:04.49 | xrogaan | it was just accepted into stable, like less than a day ago. |
| 18:05.13 | xrogaan | is it? I don't see that version. |
| 18:05.28 | xrogaan | Probably a propagation thing. |
| 18:11.46 | xrogaan | They are updated daily, are they not? |
| 18:12.21 | xrogaan | mason: last update was today at 5am. you'll get the updated list tomorrow at the same hours. Probably. |
| 18:12.25 | xrogaan | > http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/beowulf-security/non-free/binary-amd64/ |
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| 18:28.07 | registeredsoda | how do I compile git software into devuan packages? |
| 18:28.29 | registeredsoda | any automake packages using the GNU make and ./configure process |
| 18:30.41 | stiltr | https://gitea.devuan.dev/devuan/documentation/src/branch/master/maintainers/PackagingGuide.md |
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| 20:07.43 | mason | xrogaan: Yeah, pretty sure it's not being held back in Debian given that I've installed it. |
| 20:08.58 | mason | I thought pulling to Devuan was every five minutes or somesuch. |
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| 20:10.49 | mason | A thought I had was a sort of reverse of Amprolla - plugging Devuan packages into Debian instead of the reverse, making Devuan packages preffered with pinning. I might poke at that. |
| 20:11.07 | mason | bbiab |
| 20:11.57 | MinceR | https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/022/978/yNlQWRM.jpg |
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| 20:54.16 | Bjornn | I'm installing opera, reinstall actually to see if I can get streaming videos to work on twitter, facebook, etc. I get this issue https://pastebin.com/NRcC5Bhw |
| 20:55.49 | Bjornn | bascially, to start in wants to install an older version of a driver -> libgbm1 (>= 17.1.0~rc2)is current but 13.0.6-1+b2 is to be installed |
| 20:56.07 | Bjornn | anyone familiar with this issue? |
| 20:57.11 | Bjornn | I don't know exactly what this driver does |
| 20:57.26 | Bjornn | I imagine it would impact other browsers? |
| 21:09.07 | freem | apt-get really? |
| 21:09.32 | freem | I mean... you add it to your sources, but how, then? |
| 21:11.51 | freem | Bjornn: ^ |
| 21:15.22 | fsmithred | Bjornn, you need to have contrib in your sources to get pepperflash. You can get around the errors by adding '--no-install-recommends' to your apt-get command |
| 21:16.27 | fsmithred | I don't know where to get that other package - chromium-codecs-ffmpeg-extra is not in our repo |
| 21:17.49 | fsmithred | is flash really still out there? I haven't seen any in a long time. |
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| 21:24.05 | djph | fsmithred: same |
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| 23:07.48 | freem | I use vivaldi, which is.... founded by one of former opera founders, and don't have such problem. |
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| 23:17.38 | MinceR | too bad it's nonfree |
| 23:18.48 | freem | indeed |
| 23:19.04 | freem | there's otterbrowser that I need to try anew, though |
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| 23:50.46 | registeredsoda | How do I get the xm command from Xen? |
| 23:50.53 | registeredsoda | It's not installed on my system atm |
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| 23:51.24 | registeredsoda | I need it if I want to start any Xen guests or check Xen's dmesg |
| 23:55.00 | freem | "apt-file search bin/xm | grep 'xm$'" shows no result here |
| 23:55.15 | freem | maybe it's an alias? |
