| 00:01.32 | gnarface | i think there might be an issue with the mesa-va-drivers:amd64 package in beowulf. it doesn't seem installable, anyone else having that issue? |
| 00:02.07 | gnarface | that's the only package conflict i couldn't resolve |
| 00:02.48 | gnarface | but if i just remove va-driver-all:amd64 it stops complaining (i don't think it worked for me anyway on this card with nouveau, so it's no big deal, but this might be impacting others...) |
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| 00:13.09 | gnarface | that's 3 ascii->beowulf upgrades now, all almost without a hitch |
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| 00:15.32 | gnarface | (though to be fair, the hitch on the ARM one was expected and not a Devuan problem) |
| 00:39.50 | EHeM | Installing the libraries still means something with security updates. |
| 00:42.01 | EHeM | The project after removing systemd should be trying to turn "requires" dependancies into "recommends" dependancies; make use of libtool and start dlopen()ing libraries instead of directly linking to them. |
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| 02:12.29 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Jessie 1.0 old-stable, ASCII 2.1 stable) | | Conference (2019) https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #debianfork |
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| 02:17.25 | EHeM | "cachefilesd" is looking suspiciously problematic for the umask issue. |
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| 02:22.57 | EHeM | Hmm, perhaps not... |
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| 02:54.20 | Guest26850 | Hello, how can I install a gtk2 version of Thunar in beowulf? |
| 02:54.51 | Guest26850 | also various xfce4 utilities |
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| 02:58.00 | Guest26850 | these are the programs i notice http://dpaste.com/3ZKN7KR |
| 02:58.30 | Guest26850 | i'm not concerned with userspace software like atril, parole, etc i can replace those |
| 02:58.47 | Guest26850 | but thunar and the xfce utils I don't know how to install gtk2 versions of |
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| 03:08.03 | frabbit | reminds fsmithred to try to reproduce that deborphan thing |
| 03:08.58 | gnarface | Guest26850: i think it would require rebuilding the packages |
| 03:10.08 | gnarface | Guest26850: package building basics haven't deviated from the Debian documentation |
| 03:12.10 | Guest26850 | is there a way to build forwardports instead of backports? |
| 03:12.26 | Guest26850 | it doesn't look like thunar 1.8 supports gtk2 but thunar 1.6 does |
| 03:13.03 | gnarface | the process shouldn't be fundamentally different, you'd just need a copy of the older source code and the patience and knowledge to patch out any API compatibilities |
| 03:13.37 | gnarface | i think you might be able to get older source code versions from the debian snapshots repos, but i'm not sure about that |
| 03:15.10 | Guest26850 | ok |
| 03:15.25 | Guest26850 | what do you mean by API compatibilities |
| 03:15.42 | gnarface | well, you might actually have to update the source code |
| 03:15.47 | gnarface | i can't tell you specifics |
| 03:15.51 | Guest26850 | ok |
| 03:15.52 | gnarface | you might get lucky though |
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| 03:15.57 | Guest26850 | nothing i haven't done for other distros |
| 03:16.33 | Guest26850 | gnarface, if that is the case there are a bunch of other things i really do not like about thunar's defaults |
| 03:16.59 | Guest26850 | I was thinking about just forking it since I don;t see the XFCE team heading in the right direction with it |
| 03:17.40 | Guest26850 | where is the documentation for submitting a new package for maintainership in devuan if I go down that route? |
| 03:27.57 | golinux | Guest26850: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/wip/new-packaging-guide/maintainers |
| 03:28.21 | Guest26850 | thank you |
| 03:29.56 | golinux | Please understand that Devuan's singular purpose is to provide Debian without systemd. |
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| 03:31.08 | golinux | However there are many contributions available in our repos that are unofficial |
| 03:31.23 | golinux | and available to users. |
| 03:33.57 | golinux | I might even be suggested that you first see if such changes might be accepted upstream as an alternative. |
| 03:34.04 | golinux | I > It |
| 03:34.32 | golinux | Why? The less we are committed to maintain the better. |
| 03:50.31 | frabbit | Guest26850: if youre a looking for a lightweight system then using a "desktop manager enviroment what ever it calls itself" is the wrong direction imho... |
| 03:51.32 | frabbit | golinux: i wonder if it wouldnt even be better to maybe dropt some software taht has just eyecandys. i mean why not offer a minimal beginner guish something to only? |
| 03:51.38 | frabbit | *drop |
| 03:52.03 | frabbit | more programs = more packages = more work... |
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| 05:44.47 | frabbit | hm.. surf2 doesnt use the options i gave it... |
| 05:45.42 | frabbit | i runned: "surf2 --aBgkmsT" but it starts with "AcgDISVMfT" |
| 05:46.00 | frabbit | *"surf2 -aBgkmsT" |
| 05:47.32 | frabbit | it also complains about D-Bus library but that isnt the issue here i guess? other programs do too and i dont have problems with them |
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| 05:54.17 | frabbit | ok some thing are already default as it seems, so it isnt necessary to specify -B to enable a scrollbar |
| 05:54.20 | frabbit | *thing |
| 05:54.22 | frabbit | *things |
| 05:59.35 | frabbit | ah i see i need to run "-a a" for denying all cookies |
| 06:00.12 | frabbit | and that has broke the rest of the options too (but i got no notice... hm ok) |
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| 06:34.29 | Wonka | Err:11 http://deb.devuan.org/merged stable Release |
| 06:34.30 | Wonka | <PROTECTED> |
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| 06:39.49 | frabbit | Wonka: do have that in your source.list? |
| 06:40.54 | frabbit | http://deb.devuan.org/merged/dists/stable/Release |
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| 06:47.07 | xrogaan | > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main non-free contrib |
| 06:49.05 | frabbit | xrogaan: yeah thats why i asked if that is in Wonkas source.list, caused it looks more like a url with some missing / |
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| 07:00.15 | humpelstilzchen[ | Gratulations..just it would have been nice to to have this error: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931566 |
| 07:04.24 | frabbit | The headline here is wrong: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/full-disk-encryption.html - it si not describing FDE (Full disk encryption) cause the /boot partion isnt encrypted in that tutorial... |
| 07:05.16 | frabbit | fde is only possible on a computer with libreboot or if you swap the /boot partition out to some external device |
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| 07:18.47 | frabbit | *sigh* ok i was hoping it would not happen, but now the fun begins... |
| 07:19.22 | frabbit | i installed the minimal xfcd as discribed on documenation: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/en/minimal-xfce-install.html |
| 07:19.47 | frabbit | in that process dpkg gaves output that libsystemd0 will be removed |
| 07:20.15 | frabbit | but also that this package is needed by xser-xorg-core and some others |
| 07:20.22 | frabbit | but these packages now are still there |
| 07:21.11 | frabbit | also i cant run startx successfully as non-root as it is written in the release notes |
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| 07:21.55 | frabbit | oh wait eloginis needed |
| 07:22.06 | frabbit | *elogind |
| 07:22.16 | frabbit | tries that |
| 07:23.10 | Wonka | frabbit: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged stable main |
| 07:23.22 | Wonka | frabbit: that's the entry in sources.list |
| 07:24.41 | Wonka | I guess it's an out-of-sync mirror maybe? |
| 07:26.24 | frabbit | Wonka: ok so so as xrogaan wrote |
| 07:26.28 | frabbit | *so do |
| 07:26.41 | frabbit | 08:44 < xrogaan> > deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged/ beowulf main |
| 07:27.04 | frabbit | always use the version name not stable testing etc. ive had the same problem in the past ;) |
| 07:28.04 | frabbit | ok with elogind startx as non root user works |
| 07:28.46 | frabbit | maybe that removing of libsystemd0 is something wanted? but if so why it comes with installation? |
| 07:34.00 | frabbit | oh! leafpad is gone =o https://packages.debian.org/search?searchon=names&keywords=leafpad |
| 07:34.36 | frabbit | an themes for xfwm4 too: https://packages.debian.org/search?suite=default§ion=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=xfwm4-themes |
| 07:35.45 | frabbit | was it merged to xfwm4 package? |
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| 07:41.05 | frabbit | lol i gave /var 1GB at partitioning and now that i run my beginner_install_script.sh apt says theres not enough space on my /var xD |
| 07:41.25 | frabbit | ive never had this space problme on my own system before |
| 07:41.30 | frabbit | *problem |
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| 08:20.35 | frabbit | man.. mat-gui is gone too in buster D= thats really bad |
| 08:21.06 | Wonka | ok, with "apt update", I need to confirm the suite updates for beowulf from testing to stable. aptitude simply fails. is there already a bug against that? |
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| 09:17.57 | xrogaan | it's not a bug |
| 09:18.11 | xrogaan | if it is, it's on debian's side |
| 09:24.28 | humpelstilzchen[ | Wonka: https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=931566 aka Acquire::AllowReleaseInfoChange "true"; somewhere in /etc/apt/apt.conf.d |
| 09:31.49 | Wonka | humpelstilzchen[: but I don't want to simply allow it, I want aptitude to ask me if I'll allow it, like "apt update" does. |
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| 09:51.57 | fsmithred | frabbit, you can do full disk encryption with the live isos. |
| 09:52.34 | fsmithred | Check box for encryption and don't use a separate partition for /boot. |
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| 09:56.55 | fsmithred | deborphan > keep-orphans |
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| 09:57.08 | fsmithred | deborphan -k keep-orphans |
| 10:00.16 | fsmithred | guess next step is to alias the command to include that option |
| 10:00.16 | fsmithred | frabbit, ^^^ |
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| 10:34.50 | robin_ | Guys, if i have a TP Link Usb Wifi adapter how can i "install it "properly"? If im at for example debian it comes up automaticly in networkmanager if i plug it in |
| 10:34.58 | robin_ | if i plug it in here nothing happens : / |
| 10:35.36 | fsmithred | dmesg |tail |
| 10:35.38 | robin_ | it's like a "driver free" usb wifi ( should be ) |
| 10:35.50 | fsmithred | ip a |
| 10:36.06 | fsmithred | then make sure wicd has that interface set as the default wireless |
| 10:36.31 | fsmithred | don't post command output here - bot will bounce you |
| 10:38.16 | robin_ | so i just put dmesg |tail and my ip adresse and it should be good to go you mean? |
| 10:43.48 | fsmithred | no |
| 10:44.04 | fsmithred | put that in a terminal right after you plug in the dongle and you will see if it is recognized |
| 10:44.25 | fsmithred | 'ip a' will list network interfaces, so you can get the name |
| 10:44.41 | fsmithred | which is probably something like wxl-<mac address> |
| 10:45.12 | fsmithred | then you can put that interface name in wicd preferences |
| 10:45.50 | fsmithred | and Refresh wicd. It should then see wireless signals. |
| 10:49.52 | robin_ | cant find it with dmesh but with lsusb i find it |
| 10:50.33 | ShorTie | there is also 'ls /sys/class/net' to see if it is there and it's name |
| 10:51.07 | fsmithred | does 'ip a' show it? |
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| 10:52.45 | robin_ | think i maybe found it |
| 10:52.56 | robin_ | but where should i put it in refernce in wicd ? : P |
| 10:53.00 | fsmithred | the interface name? |
| 10:53.13 | fsmithred | make wicd window bigger, and you'll see Preferences in upper right |
| 10:53.33 | fsmithred | put interface name in the box for default wireless |
| 10:54.22 | fsmithred | then Refresh wicd |
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| 12:08.04 | frabbit | Wonka: aptitude is a frontend for a frontend.. i avoid such..."solutions". just use apt only ;) |
| 12:08.40 | fsmithred | frabbit, did you see my deborphan notes? |
| 12:10.02 | frabbit | fsmithred: fde with live iso: how does that work? grub must be somewhere and if it is on the encrypted disk... who or better what is asking for the decryption of the /boot partition? with libreboot there comes a minmal grub with that does this job. |
| 12:10.15 | frabbit | fsmithred: deborphan: yes |
| 12:10.24 | fsmithred | fde? |
| 12:10.25 | frabbit | will have a look at it later |
| 12:10.34 | frabbit | full disk encryption |
| 12:10.37 | fsmithred | oh |
| 12:11.08 | fsmithred | it works because the live installer puts the appropriate line in /etc/default/grub |
| 12:11.35 | fsmithred | nothing asks for decryption of the /boot partition because there is no /boot partition |
| 12:11.47 | fsmithred | the /boot directory is part of the root partition |
| 12:11.54 | frabbit | doesnt mater |
| 12:12.06 | frabbit | -> /boot is neede to boot the system |
| 12:12.10 | frabbit | *needed |
| 12:12.22 | fsmithred | grub is in mbr if it's bios boot, in efi partition if it's uefi |
| 12:12.39 | frabbit | if it is on a encrypted space u need to decrypt that space first... |
| 12:12.43 | fsmithred | yes, of course there is a boot directory with the usual components |
| 12:12.57 | fsmithred | yes, and grub will ask for the passphrase |
| 12:13.03 | fsmithred | then it will show you a grub menu |
| 12:13.06 | frabbit | grub is in bios? o_0 |
| 12:13.07 | fsmithred | start to load kernel |
| 12:13.20 | fsmithred | and then ask for the passphrase |
| 12:13.52 | fsmithred | grub is in mbr and knows how to decrypt the partition |
| 12:14.38 | frabbit | but mbr is on the hdd/ssd |
| 12:14.44 | fsmithred | omg |
| 12:14.45 | fsmithred | yes |
| 12:14.53 | frabbit | so? |
| 12:14.58 | fsmithred | that does not disqualify it for full disk encryption |
| 12:15.03 | frabbit | that hdd/ssd is encrypted... |
| 12:15.07 | fsmithred | mbr is not in any of the partitions |
| 12:15.15 | frabbit | oh! |
| 12:15.28 | frabbit | i didnt know that |
| 12:15.35 | specing | frabbit: grub is in the 2047 sectors after MBR but before any partitions |
| 12:15.41 | specing | (1MB) |
| 12:15.46 | fsmithred | first part of the disk is for boot code and the partition table |
| 12:15.50 | frabbit | i mean i know that there isnt any /mbr or something but i always thought it is somewhere on the installation... |
| 12:16.38 | fsmithred | advantage of fde is that kernel and initrd are protected |
| 12:17.02 | frabbit | yes |
| 12:17.05 | fsmithred | I don't like it because it's slow to boot |
| 12:17.07 | frabbit | thats why i use it |
| 12:17.16 | frabbit | specing: thx ;) |
| 12:17.23 | fsmithred | for security, I'd rather put /boot on a usb stick |
| 12:17.40 | fsmithred | which is less convenient |
| 12:17.45 | frabbit | fsmithred: not for me but i have to type in my passphrase two times |
| 12:17.54 | frabbit | fsmithred: until u lost it xD |
| 12:18.05 | frabbit | "damn where was that stick again...?" |
| 12:18.22 | fsmithred | yeah, security requires some work |
| 12:18.36 | frabbit | fsmithred: #debianfork becuase thats gettin ot |
| 12:19.03 | specing | fsmithred: it's slow because grub's pbkdf is slow |
| 12:19.16 | specing | fsmithred: reduce the number of iterations and it'll boot faster |
| 12:19.49 | specing | > frabbit | fsmithred: not for me but i have to type in my passphrase two times |
| 12:19.59 | frabbit | specing: i really have no problmes with boot speed since i have libreboot its so fu***** fast |
| 12:20.04 | specing | someone could code up an interface through which grub could pass along the key |
| 12:21.01 | fsmithred | can't put the key in the root partition? I haven't tried that. |
| 12:21.45 | specing | fsmithred: I guess one way would be for GRUB to generate an unencrypted LUKS header on the fly and pass it as additional initrd to the kernel |
| 12:21.47 | fsmithred | I would expect it to work if you have the key listed in crypttab |
| 12:21.48 | specing | but someone has to code that |
| 12:22.01 | fsmithred | you would still need to put password in one time |
| 12:22.04 | fsmithred | my way |
| 12:22.30 | fsmithred | for grub to pass the key, you need a removable key |
| 12:25.07 | specing | why |
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| 12:26.12 | frabbit | gcompris in beowulf is now unplayable on an old laptop... =( that will make someone really sad... |
| 12:26.41 | frabbit | also why mat2 doesnt contain a gui anymore? |
| 12:27.53 | fsmithred | how does grub know who is booting the computer? |
| 12:30.26 | fsmithred | or maybe you are proposing using password once instead of twice |
| 12:42.30 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 12:42.30 | *** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Jessie 1.0 old-stable, ASCII 2.1 stable) | | Conference (2019) https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #debianfork |
| 12:42.30 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
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| 12:43.08 | frabbit | huh? whats that channelmode? |
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| 12:54.11 | frabbit | ok 0.80 is already that heavy thing.. o_0 |
| 13:06.23 | Wonka | frabbit: well, aptitude makes complex situations much easier... like, when you're living on the edge of unstable, and there's packages you cannot update yet because the new dependencies are not there yet... |
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| 13:08.06 | frabbit | Wonka: ok is that so? i never lived that way =) |
| 13:08.16 | frabbit | im living in the past |
| 13:08.43 | frabbit | where gcompris was still playable 4 example... |
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| 13:21.59 | frabbit | from wich year was the gcompris version in ascii? o_0 ive tried out one here from 2015 and that has already the new interface that kills my gpu... |
| 13:24.04 | frabbit | wait! there are two versions one with qt and one with gtk and beowulf has the qt version that sucks |
| 13:24.30 | frabbit | i think that this is it but i cant be 100% sure... |
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| 14:50.40 | Xelraa | Idk about how good idea that 4.19 kernel for beuwulf was |
| 14:50.50 | Xelraa | my vmware workstation 15 segfaulting the hell out itself |
| 14:50.58 | Xelraa | when restoring saving shutting down vms |
| 14:51.15 | Xelraa | exact same core i7 hardware just having a debian 9 + devuan 3 multiboot |
| 14:51.54 | Xelraa | my debian is stretch 9.12 with kernel 4.9.0-11 and don't have any problems like this |
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| 15:29.00 | Mate_cz | Hello, sorry for the noob question - I have a devuan 1.0 on arm machine. Does anybody knows the easy way to expand sd card to full size (from 2GB to 16GB)? gparted is not included. Can creat wpa_supplicant to connext to wifi. Theres no gui in the distro.. thanks in advance |
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| 15:37.53 | frabbit | Mate_cz: ask here: #devuan-arm |
| 15:38.02 | specing | Mate_cz: fdisk, t option in menu |
| 15:38.10 | fsmithred | Mate_cz, resize2fs? |
| 15:38.21 | specing | err d then n |
| 15:39.11 | Mate_cz | frabbit: nobodys on the channel :) |
| 15:39.15 | fsmithred | delete and new? |
| 15:39.30 | specing | yes |
| 15:39.35 | Mate_cz | specing: thx, will try |
| 15:39.43 | fsmithred | you don't want to keep jessie? |
| 15:39.59 | specing | fsmithred: it doesen't delete data, just the partition info |
| 15:40.19 | specing | it'll work fine as long as the new partition has the same number and starts at the same sector |
| 15:40.22 | fsmithred | wow, ok |
| 15:41.19 | fsmithred | sounds too much like the time I accidentally wiped my partition table |
| 15:42.28 | specing | I never loooked into it, but filesystems probably have some header at the start |
| 15:42.38 | specing | so you can trivially reconstruct the table |
| 15:42.48 | fsmithred | yeah, I did that |
| 15:42.58 | fsmithred | it worked ok for the primary partition, but not for the extended |
| 15:43.23 | specing | I don't know why these things are still used when LVM exists |
| 15:43.44 | specing | most distros just have dumb defaults in their partitioners |
| 15:43.49 | specing | I believe Devuan is no exception |
| 15:44.05 | fsmithred | we use debian-installer |
| 15:44.27 | fsmithred | and for the live isos, refractainstaller, which absolutely does not have dumb defaults for partitioning |
| 15:44.29 | specing | I remember fighting the installer to install to btrfs |
| 15:44.36 | fsmithred | because it doesn't partition anything for you |
| 15:45.05 | frabbit | Mate_cz: oh! =o |
| 15:45.06 | specing | and I had to do the same recently in Fedora |
| 15:45.14 | specing | they have 3 partitioners and none can do it |
| 15:45.36 | fsmithred | did we work on btrfs together, or am I thinking of someone else? |
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| 15:45.46 | frabbit | Mate_cz: wait no there are 23 persons! |
| 15:46.10 | specing | fsmithred: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2175 |
| 15:46.30 | frabbit | Mate_cz: 17:43 -alis(alis@services.)- #devuan-arm 23 :Devuan on ARM boards :: https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk :: https://devuan.org :: this is a low-traffic channel mainly for me to give help more easily and to track bugs (parazyd) |
| 15:46.49 | Mate_cz | frabbit: my bad - one extra character used :) |
| 15:46.56 | Mate_cz | thx |
| 15:46.57 | frabbit | ## ? |
| 15:47.04 | frabbit | =) |
| 15:47.08 | Mate_cz | yeah |
| 15:47.15 | frabbit | xD i know that |
| 15:48.47 | fsmithred | specing, yeah, that one. Thanks. I think I just deleted that btrfs VM recently. |
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| 16:06.12 | specing | fsmithred: I wish Devuan had a Kickstart system like Fedora |
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| 16:06.21 | specing | that speeds things up tremendously |
| 16:06.29 | fsmithred | what's it do? |
| 16:06.35 | specing | https://framagit.org/specing//fedora |
| 16:06.41 | specing | fsmithred: it pre-configures the installer |
| 16:08.15 | fsmithred | debian-installer has preseed |
| 16:08.45 | fsmithred | non-interactive install with pre-set choices |
| 16:10.36 | nemo | 19:23 < nemo> no idea what task-desktop and task-mate-desktop do, but stuff seems to startup sooooo |
| 16:10.39 | nemo | 19:24 < fsmithred> those are metapackages that pull in lots of packages that actually do stuff |
| 16:10.50 | nemo | continuing this... any particular reason why those meta packages have such strict dependencies? |
| 16:10.57 | nemo | instead of their subs? |
| 16:11.07 | nemo | but I guess that explains why removing them didn't break anything |
| 16:11.35 | nemo | (that is, I needed to downgrade xorg server, and it's surprising to me that meta packages to "install a desktop" would require xorg 1.20 instead of 1.19 |
| 16:11.38 | nemo | ) |
| 16:11.48 | nemo | maybe it's convenient to do, but kinda sucks in this sort of forced situation |
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| 16:12.33 | fsmithred | I would expect forced versions in dependencies to be there for a reason, but that might not be a good assumption. |
| 16:13.04 | nemo | fsmithred: welp. system hasn't broken yet ð |
| 16:13.16 | nemo | fsmithred: and I'm actually able to do gl acceleration, so that's good |
| 16:15.18 | fsmithred | cool |
| 16:15.40 | nemo | can share my pin if anyone is in same situation with a new AMD card |
| 16:15.56 | nemo | I did see a lot of bug reports online. on ubuntu and such, with people running into same problem |
| 16:16.03 | nemo | curiously they were trying all kinds of odd random fixes |
| 16:16.11 | fsmithred | might be worth posting on forum - it'll turn up on a search |
| 16:16.23 | nemo | instead of, oh, addressing the ABI problem |
| 16:16.36 | nemo | if your amdgpu driver is video ABI 23 and your server is video abi 24, that cannot be good |
| 16:16.43 | nemo | xorg only bumps abi if there are breaking changes |
| 16:16.52 | nemo | fsmithred: that means making a forum account though ð |
| 16:16.58 | nemo | hmmm maybe I made one? |
| 16:17.07 | nemo | will have to check logins when I'm off the work computer |
| 16:18.11 | fsmithred | I thought you had one |
| 16:19.03 | nemo | one funny thing about the amd driver is it checks for ubuntu, mint or debian before saying that you are on an unsupported deb based distro |
| 16:19.08 | nemo | |devuan was trivial to add ofc |
| 16:19.16 | nemo | but, it does NOT check version |
| 16:19.57 | nemo | the last 3 ubuntu releases use xorg 1.20 |
| 16:20.01 | fsmithred | maybe they figured they didn't need to check version because the deps control that? |
| 16:20.22 | nemo | fsmithred: possible but then they screwed that up too. since their xorg driver does not have a 1.20 version, or fails to check for it |
| 16:20.30 | nemo | and they released it 2020-04-17 |
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| 16:20.44 | nemo | anyway. last 3 ubuntu releases probably have broken video with amdgpu-pro |
| 16:21.29 | fsmithred | no forum account |
| 16:21.51 | fsmithred | you on dng mailing list? |
| 16:21.52 | nemo | durn |
| 16:21.55 | nemo | probably not |
| 16:22.21 | fsmithred | devuan-dev mailing list? |
| 16:22.26 | nemo | certainly not ⺠|
| 16:22.30 | fsmithred | pastebin it and I'll post it |
| 16:22.35 | nemo | ok. |
| 16:22.40 | nemo | it has the gotcha that it removed those tasks |
| 16:22.40 | fsmithred | if you don't want to join any of those |
| 16:22.42 | nemo | and I had to accept it |
| 16:22.56 | nemo | but... it did not seem to screw anything up enormously beyond that |
| 16:22.57 | fsmithred | mention that |
| 16:23.19 | nemo | oh and naturally the tasks being removed caused devuan to think I didn't need libreoffice anymore, but was trivial to explicitly install to get autoremove off my case |
| 16:23.31 | nemo | but IMO the tasks should have been more flexible |
| 16:23.35 | nemo | ok. will write this allll up |
| 16:24.08 | fsmithred | tasks and flexible don't go in same sentence. |
| 16:24.56 | nemo | fsmithred: welll. you said it was a meta. so you'd *think* like a lot of metas it wouldn't have very explicit of versions. I thought that was normally for the stuff under it |
| 16:25.02 | nemo | but maybe I don't understand debs very well |
| 16:25.51 | fsmithred | what you say makes sense to me. I don't know why it's that way. |
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| 16:39.47 | nemo | fsmithred: https://m8y.org/tmp/amdgpu.html |
| 16:39.50 | nemo | how's that |
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| 16:41.26 | fsmithred | nemo, thanks. I'll post it now and read it later. Might add some formatting. |
| 16:41.54 | nemo | fsmithred: I added a sentence noting this almost certainly impacts ubuntu/debian/mint too |
| 16:42.06 | nemo | just so people don't consider it a devuan problem ð |
| 16:42.11 | fsmithred | cool |
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| 18:03.24 | tedious | Does the install you get from the devuan live dvd turn out the same as if you used the normal installer? |
| 18:04.14 | tedious | Or do you end up with a live system running from your hard disk instead of a dvd? |
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| 18:29.14 | golinux_ | tedious: It is a normal devuan install |
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| 18:35.17 | nemo | fsmithred: hm. feedback on forum says that I can do a manual install from upstream. that's good to know |
| 18:35.38 | nemo | fsmithred: and yeah, I was pretty darn sure debian hadn't updated firmware. |
| 18:36.00 | nemo | but I didn't see any hint of it in other distros either, and since the card had had firmware patches just a couple of months ago... |
| 18:36.34 | nemo | I do appreciate someone telling me how to do it though |
| 18:36.36 | nemo | will try it later |
| 18:36.59 | nemo | hmmm |
| 18:37.04 | fsmithred | cool. Write it and I'll post it with the other fix. Then people can have a choice. |
| 18:37.05 | nemo | fsmithred: ugh. requires kernel change too |
| 18:37.15 | nemo | fsmithred: well he wrote it up |
| 18:37.21 | nemo | I don't know if I want to change my kernel though |
| 18:37.26 | fsmithred | backports kernel is 5.5 or 5.6 |
| 18:37.38 | nemo | oh. ok. that makes me feel a bit better |
| 18:37.41 | fsmithred | some people are using it already for new hardware |
| 18:37.44 | nemo | if it is backports kernel... |
| 18:38.01 | nemo | fsmithred: I'll try his method either tonight or tomorrow night. major deploys at work will have me working late |
| 18:38.04 | fsmithred | yeah, beowulf-backports (=buster-backports) |
| 18:38.37 | fsmithred | oh boy, I just made a chimaera live-iso. Now I get to see if it boots. |
| 18:38.50 | nemo | but yeah, my usual instinct when the FOSS stuff completely fails to detect hardware even after attempting backport of firmware is to try the closed source |
| 18:39.14 | nemo | and I did check for firmware backports and there was none in devuan with a recent enough date even in the bleeding edge stuff |
| 18:39.16 | fsmithred | oh, my first thought is to try a newer kernel |
| 18:39.24 | nemo | fsmithred: well yeah. |
| 18:39.33 | nemo | fsmithred: but that along WITH the necessary amd fairy dust ð |
| 18:39.42 | nemo | fsmithred: and since you guys didn't have a fairy dust package |
| 18:39.49 | nemo | I had no idea how to go about it myself |
| 18:39.54 | nemo | seems like it might not be too hard. |
| 18:39.56 | fsmithred | new is always tricky with debian |
| 18:40.11 | fsmithred | firmware-amd-graphics isn't the right dust? |
| 18:40.16 | nemo | no. too old |
| 18:40.19 | nemo | even in backports |
| 18:40.32 | fsmithred | yeah, old is usually a feature |
| 18:40.34 | nemo | he's recommending manual install, which I'm fine with if it isn't too hard |
| 18:40.36 | nemo | fsmithred: for sure |
| 18:40.43 | nemo | fsmithred: it's just nice to be able to selectively override |
| 18:40.53 | nemo | and unfortunately debian sometimes lacks some flexibility there. ESPECIALLY with games |
| 18:41.11 | nemo | I understand stability for core system stuff, but less so for games. I wish there was an additional category |
| 18:41.24 | nemo | fun-backports or something |
| 18:41.45 | nemo | Hedgewars has had soooo much trouble with debian over the years |
| 18:41.54 | nemo | http://hedgewars.org/node/9132 |
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| 18:54.31 | EHeM | Upon further experimentation it now appears the NFS issue with modes requires *both* server and client to be on kernel 4.19; server on 4.9, client on 4.19 works; server on 4.19, client on 4.9 works. |
| 18:55.54 | EHeM | I've seen some hints pointing towards NFSv4 being part of the problem (v2 and v3 are disabled on this server). |
| 18:56.24 | fsmithred | EHeM, I have server on 4.19 and client on 4.9 and I have some problems with not being able to mount the share without restarting nfs-kernel-server |
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| 19:08.25 | enyc | meows |
| 19:15.37 | plasma41 | The channel topic should be updated to mention the Beowulf release. Who has the op privileges to do that? |
| 19:17.02 | fsmithred | parazyd ^^^ |
| 19:17.14 | fsmithred | probably someone else, too |
| 19:18.51 | *** mode/#devuan [+o fsmithred] by ChanServ |
| 19:19.01 | fsmithred | definitely someone else, too |
| 19:19.06 | fsmithred | now what? |
| 19:20.06 | fsmithred | help |
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| 19:24.09 | *** topic/#devuan by fsmithred -> Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | | Conference (2019) https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #debianfork |
| 19:24.31 | fsmithred | someone look at the topic and tell me if I did it right |
| 19:24.56 | stiltr | lgtm |
| 19:25.16 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 19:25.29 | plasma41 | Looks right to me, though do we need to mention the conference in the topic still? |
| 19:26.19 | fsmithred | not sure what's there |
| 19:28.32 | ShorTie | Conference (2019) , does sound a little old |
| 19:29.09 | fsmithred | I'll put it on the pad |
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| 19:58.02 | parazyd | fsmithred: Did you solve it? |
| 19:58.10 | fsmithred | yes |
| 19:58.19 | parazyd | cool :) |
| 19:58.22 | fsmithred | we just need to decide... |
| 19:58.30 | fsmithred | keep conference link or not? |
| 19:58.45 | parazyd | IMHO, no need. Since it's probably linked somewhere on the website. |
| 19:58.50 | golinux | Not needed one year out imo |
| 19:58.51 | fsmithred | also, I updated live-sdk blends couple days ago |
| 19:58.56 | parazyd | If there's a new conference, then add it :) |
| 19:59.02 | fsmithred | yeah, ok. I'll do it now. |
| 19:59.19 | fsmithred | and btw, chimaera live-iso works. (made with refractasnapshot) |
| 19:59.41 | parazyd | fsmithred: ok @ blends. If there's things you want me to push/review, best is to just send me a message in private |
| 19:59.56 | parazyd | I'll probably reply :p |
| 20:00.02 | fsmithred | ok |
| 20:27.39 | enyc | i'd like to see quide/difference to those who have had a beuwolf-beta a long time vs 'clean install', things likely to be wrong, and so-on |
| 20:28.33 | enyc | I've experienced wierdness with gui processes eating 100% cpu until killed and restarted, and intermittency with auto mounting usb drevs, these sorts of bugginess things |
| 20:28.37 | fsmithred | comb through forum posts from the last few months and create such a guide |
| 20:28.57 | fsmithred | haven't see that myself |
| 20:29.09 | fsmithred | I've heard it mentioned here, but not sure if that was you |
| 20:29.15 | fsmithred | in the past week, I guess |
| 20:29.36 | *** mode/#devuan [+o fsmithred] by ChanServ |
| 20:30.33 | *** topic/#devuan by fsmithred -> Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Beowulf 3.0 stable, ASCII 2.1 old-stable) | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | take offtopic chat to #debianfork |
| 20:31.08 | *** mode/#devuan [-o fsmithred] by ChanServ |
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| 20:44.34 | Guest5406 | hi |
| 20:44.54 | *** join/#devuan glat-agent643 (uid447762@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qltkjlqgqkmpewxv) |
| 20:44.57 | glat-agent643 | Hello. I am selling cheap GNU/Linux licenses. $89 today! |
| 20:50.45 | Guest5406 | anybody knows about a devuan/debian derivative using runit as init system? |
| 20:51.12 | golinux | Devuan should have runit |
| 20:51.18 | Guest5406 | i only heard about void linux and artix |
| 20:51.22 | golinux | in the point release iirc |
| 20:51.24 | Guest5406 | hi golinux |
| 20:51.46 | golinux | It's mentioned in the release announcement |
| 20:51.57 | golinux | Hi aitor! |
| 20:52.20 | golinux | https://devuan.org/os/announce/beowulf-stable-announce-060120 |
| 20:52.38 | Guest5406 | thanks, golinux |
| 20:53.44 | Guest5406 | ? |
| 20:54.05 | Guest5406 | it's not /sbin/init, but /sbin/runit-init |
| 20:54.20 | MinceR | glat-agent643: someone has outbid you, at $0 |
| 20:54.59 | glat-agent643 | How much licenses do you have? |
| 20:55.12 | Guest5406 | i've been working on the configuration of runit under gnuinos during these days |
| 20:55.32 | stiltr | Guest5406: Presumably apt install runit |
| 20:56.15 | Guest5406 | and i have an image working right now |
| 20:57.16 | Guest5406 | stiltr: some services must be stablished at /etc/sv |
| 20:57.45 | Guest5406 | *established |
| 20:58.16 | Guest5406 | and symlinks to them at /etc/runit/runsvdir |
| 20:59.19 | stiltr | I've got no idea. Sorry. |
| 20:59.50 | glat-agent643 | I am still selling cheap GNU/Linux licenses. $89 today! |
| 21:00.13 | Guest5406 | i removed sysvinit, sysvinit-core and also a sysvint-utils (a critical package), and everything is working fine so far |
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| 21:31.55 | se7en | Is ASCII considered old-stable yet |
| 21:31.59 | se7en | Should I upgrade to buster |
| 21:33.13 | stiltr | Beowulf is stable now. |
| 21:33.56 | tuxd3v | se7en, you mean Beowulf :) |
| 21:36.07 | se7en | yes |
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| 21:44.43 | se7en | I don't have enough memory in /var/cache/apt/archives |
| 21:44.52 | se7en | Is there a way to change the location of downloaded pacages |
| 21:45.23 | se7en | After this operation, 2,497 MB of additional disk space will be used. |
| 21:45.24 | se7en | E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/. |
| 21:45.26 | se7en | heh |
| 21:45.46 | tuxd3v | :D |
| 21:45.47 | fsmithred | don't you want to clean out the old packages? |
| 21:46.40 | fsmithred | copy /var/cache/apt/archives to a bigger partition and then make a symlink |
| 21:47.21 | fsmithred | apt-get autoclean will get rid of obsolete packages, apg-get clean will get rid of all of them. |
| 21:49.01 | se7en | There is nothing in that folder |
| 21:51.47 | fsmithred | what's filling /var? |
| 21:52.24 | fsmithred | renegade logs? |
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| 21:53.42 | se7en | There doiesn't appear to be much at all |
| 21:53.57 | fsmithred | du -sh |
| 21:54.01 | fsmithred | no |
| 21:54.04 | fsmithred | df -h |
| 21:54.10 | fsmithred | see how full it is first |
| 21:54.30 | se7en | I'm running it with the symlink so it might be an invalid statistic |
| 21:54.32 | se7en | but |
| 21:54.34 | se7en | /dev/mapper/lappy--vg-var ext4 2.7G 1023M 1.6G 40% /var |
| 21:54.49 | fsmithred | or run someting like gdmap to get a graphical representation |
| 21:55.03 | fsmithred | oh |
| 21:55.16 | fsmithred | make it bigger |
| 21:55.47 | fsmithred | for extra credit, do it while it's mounted and running |
| 21:55.53 | se7en | It's not nessesarily wise to just make partitions bigger all the time |
| 21:56.08 | se7en | Especially when there is no defragmention service for ext4 |
| 21:56.17 | fsmithred | sweat bullets |
| 21:56.50 | fsmithred | you can add a volume to it, but then that has other issues |
| 21:56.52 | EHeM | My strategy is to attach a large shared filesystem to the VM, then do an overlay mount of /var/cache/apt/archives (saves bandwidth too!). |
| 21:57.03 | se7en | Why is this upgrade process installing packages I deliberatly removed from my system |
| 21:57.06 | se7en | Including firefox-est |
| 21:57.08 | se7en | esr |
| 21:57.29 | fsmithred | task-desktop and task-whatever-desktop? |
| 21:57.46 | se7en | what |
| 21:57.57 | fsmithred | dpkg -l |grep task |
| 21:58.02 | fsmithred | don't post the output here |
| 21:58.10 | se7en | task-laptop |
| 21:58.13 | se7en | is running |
| 21:58.20 | fsmithred | that won't pull in ff |
| 21:58.25 | se7en | Also tas-english, task-print-server, tasksel, and tasksel-data |
| 21:59.19 | se7en | I'll just remove all this stuff when I am finished, I guess |
| 21:59.24 | se7en | Though it is a waste of bandwidth |
| 21:59.37 | fsmithred | aptitude why firefox-esr |
| 21:59.44 | se7en | I hope I don't have to re-remove xscreensaver, slogind, and other crap |
| 21:59.55 | se7en | i doc-debian Suggests www-browser |
| 21:59.57 | se7en | p firefox-esr Provides www-browser |
| 22:00.05 | se7en | that's pretty silly |
| 22:00.17 | fsmithred | you might play around with finding a few key packages to remove |
| 22:00.21 | se7en | I guess I should run update-alternatives soon |
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| 22:01.16 | se7en | ETA 12h 40min 55s |
| 22:01.18 | se7en | harsh |
| 22:02.12 | fsmithred | that's the download time for the upgrade? |
| 22:02.53 | se7en | It keeps jumping around |
| 22:02.57 | se7en | Now it's down to 3h |
| 22:03.02 | se7en | After going up to 15 |
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| 23:13.44 | specing | Is anyone here running Apparmor? |
| 23:14.34 | specing | /etc/init.d/apparmor start |
| 23:14.36 | specing | /etc/init.d/apparmor: 130: /etc/init.d/apparmor: systemd-detect-virt: not found |
| 23:15.09 | specing | evidently not? |
| 23:16.56 | gnarface | i didn't even know it had an init script |
| 23:17.00 | bgstack15 | my apparmor is running |
| 23:18.07 | specing | bgstack15: How does one turn it on? |
| 23:18.15 | bgstack15 | if "sudo service apparmor status" returning approximately 30 lines of various sections like 15 profiles enforced, 9 in complain mode, and some of that sounding repeating, that means it's running, then yes. |
| 23:18.20 | specing | cat /sys/module/apparmor/parameters/enabled |
| 23:18.22 | specing | says N |
| 23:18.37 | bgstack15 | Dunno; I've never done anything with apparmor. |
| 23:18.48 | bgstack15 | I would use selinux if devuan had sane defaults that I were aware of. |
| 23:18.52 | specing | I get "AppArmor not available as kernel LSM.. |
| 23:18.54 | specing | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:19.16 | specing | I want to get experience with both |
| 23:19.54 | bgstack15 | I'm sure that turning selinux on in Devuan would get you _tons_ of experience fixing it! |
| 23:21.03 | bgstack15 | I didn't realize apparmor was a system service. I realize it operates differently from selinux (setenforce [0,1]) but I don't really know what that means. |
| 23:22.08 | bgstack15 | so obviously the systemd-detect-virt is not available for Devuan. I don't understand why systemd people thought that virt-what was insufficient. |
| 23:24.09 | specing | bgstack15: I'm using Fedora as SELinux testbed |
| 23:24.22 | specing | Possibly CentOS/RHEL later on |
| 23:24.25 | bgstack15 | Definitely a good place for SELinux defaults. |
| 23:26.42 | bgstack15 | So, I know it's only slightly related, but my dream distro would use these components: sysvinit, selinux, yum output but apt concepts (no preference of rpm vs dpkg), and iptables. |
| 23:27.48 | bgstack15 | I guess that would tie me in to glibc, but then I've never been one to hate on GNU. I know some people try to be GNU-free but that's not a fight I care for. I like GNU userspace. |
| 23:28.21 | phogg | bgstack15: sysvinit is nothing to write home about. Why yum over apt? I find apt to be a far more pleasant tool. |
| 23:29.03 | bgstack15 | the output from yum is about 3x as useful as apt's (or dpkg's?) output. Yum will put it in nice columns, and show you what repo each file is coming from, right there in the main yum install/update output. |
| 23:29.25 | bgstack15 | Apt output is gross and spans the width of the screen, or doesn't, and just sort of rambles. |
| 23:30.00 | bgstack15 | I like the apt concepts of separate cache, etc. "Apt-get update" is separate from "apt-get upgrade" was foreign to me at first, but I grew to like it. |
| 23:30.16 | fsmithred | aptitude -s full-upgrade |
| 23:30.22 | fsmithred | better display |
| 23:30.51 | bgstack15 | I realize I'm being pedantic, but is there an apt-get equivalent? I don't always install aptitude (which is a separate package?!) |
| 23:31.15 | fsmithred | I don't know how to change the formatting of apt-get's output or if it's possible |
| 23:31.39 | fsmithred | but I find it useless for a big list of packages |
| 23:31.49 | bgstack15 | oh, unfortunately "aptitude -s full-upgrade" still just spanned like 5-8 packages across each row, and didn't show me the repo name it was coming from. |
| 23:32.09 | bgstack15 | I know apt-cache policy is there, and that's great for lookups. But I want to see all that info at once, for the Y/N prompt of the upgrade command. |
| 23:32.24 | fsmithred | no, it doesnt do that. But at least you can see everything you really need to. |
| 23:32.50 | bgstack15 | I almost hacked the source of apt-get to get that, but I think the data structure passed to that function didn't include the repo name/url and I didn't feel comfortable modifying that struct to include it, because then I would have to go farther back to whatever populated it and add it. |
| 23:33.15 | bgstack15 | the apt-get -V upgrade parameter will get you one package name per line, with target version! That's pretty handy. |
| 23:33.19 | bgstack15 | But still no repo name. |
| 23:34.02 | bgstack15 | Yum is slow, but its output has always made more sense to me, probably because I came from that world. |
| 23:34.10 | specing | bgstack15: which version of devuan are you on? |
| 23:34.13 | bgstack15 | Ceres |
| 23:34.22 | bgstack15 | have to be Ceres, because of freeipa packages. |
| 23:34.33 | specing | I'm on ascii |
| 23:34.50 | specing | well, the server is. I'm still mostly on Gentoo |
| 23:34.51 | fsmithred | apt list --upgradable |
| 23:36.26 | bgstack15 | sudo apt-get list --upgradable | column -t isn't so bad |
| 23:36.27 | fsmithred | uhhh... yum is in the repo. Not sure why. |
| 23:36.49 | bgstack15 | for the same reason humans climb Mt. Everest... |
| 23:36.57 | fsmithred | lol |
| 23:39.02 | specing | I wish distros would take security seriously and had at least one enforcing MAC subsystem enabled |
| 23:39.05 | specing | by default |
| 23:39.19 | bgstack15 | There probably are distros out there that do that. |
| 23:39.26 | specing | yes, Fedora/CentOS/RHEL |
| 23:39.33 | bgstack15 | I'm old-school and used to turning things on the way I want. |
| 23:39.45 | bgstack15 | I have hardened RHEL 7 systems to DISA STIG level. |
| 23:39.55 | bgstack15 | You want locked down, stinkin' root could be locked out of stuff! |
| 23:40.10 | bgstack15 | Made me feel sad. |
| 23:40.15 | specing | it's still not as locked as a modern android phone |
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| 23:40.29 | specing | SELinux really shines there |
| 23:40.35 | bgstack15 | I will take your word for it. Sorry, I know nothing about fancy little objects that fit in the hand. |
| 23:40.44 | bgstack15 | (or two hands) |
| 23:46.03 | specing | Oh, Ubuntu also has Apparmor by default |
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