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| 12:31.42 | jl4 | is impressed by Beowulf ... how it does in his pretty old T420 . This is a wonderful piece of community software ! |
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| 16:33.22 | Pr0metheus | Lately I am very concerned about privacy and how all the big players are starting to control from kernel to the browser we use. It seems that Linux is adopting Microsoft style, big company coders ignore user comments, gnome merging with kde. Is anyone else having these dislikes looking for alternatives? Like desktop/wm, browser, standard apps? |
| 16:34.29 | MinceR | indeed |
| 16:34.40 | MinceR | i'm trying OpenBSD, but i'm not too keen on sndio |
| 16:34.54 | MinceR | i'm planning to try DragonflyBSD once i can get another SSD without getting infected |
| 16:35.34 | Pr0metheus | I tried openbsd and unfortunately does not support nvidia and as I am not planning to buy anything new I tried FreeBSD |
| 16:35.54 | MinceR | FreeBSD has a CoC and seems to be controlled by microsoft and apple |
| 16:36.09 | Pr0metheus | great! |
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| 16:36.25 | Pr0metheus | there is no way out:P |
| 16:36.36 | MinceR | NetBSD seems to be free of malign influence, along with OpenBSD and DragonflyBSD |
| 16:36.58 | Pr0metheus | and ok if you manage to avoid the linux kernel then what about desktop/wm, browser? |
| 16:37.12 | MinceR | fvwm |
| 16:37.21 | MinceR | all browsers suck so i'll have to write my own |
| 16:38.38 | Pr0metheus | I saw fvwm on openbsd, you need 6 months to setup it:P |
| 16:38.53 | MinceR | i think i wrote my config in less than 6 months :> |
| 16:39.07 | MinceR | if you want a wm that doesn't need much setting up, i can recommend icewm |
| 16:39.34 | MinceR | in any case, #debianfork would be a better place for this discussion :> |
| 16:40.37 | Pr0metheus | yeah sure, I have debian in all my computers but although the guys are doing a great job to avoid systemd most software start to have dependencies, it is like a coronavirus |
| 16:40.50 | Pr0metheus | i mean devuan:P |
| 16:43.23 | stovepipe | ive been writing my fvwm config for 25 years! |
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| 16:45.33 | MinceR | and it still isn't ready yet? :> |
| 16:46.09 | stovepipe | almost perfect |
| 16:46.39 | Pr0metheus | is i3 any better? |
| 16:49.31 | stovepipe | saw this yesterday https://boards.4channel.org/g/thread/75364626 |
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| 16:50.08 | stovepipe | honestly i stopped paying attention to anything else over a decade ago |
| 16:50.48 | stovepipe | its all going in the wrong direction for me |
| 16:52.56 | stovepipe | and whats this about qt being dead |
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| 16:56.57 | Pr0metheus | no idea, isn't QT actively developed? besides they made a deal to keep it free |
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| 17:01.22 | stovepipe | as far as i can tell it hasnt slowed down |
| 17:01.55 | stovepipe | probably FUD, 4chan afterall |
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| 17:02.51 | stovepipe | i have been noticing that CSD crap though |
| 17:05.09 | Pr0metheus | what's FUD, CSD? |
| 17:05.20 | stovepipe | fear uncertainty and doubt :) |
| 17:05.24 | stovepipe | and client side decorations |
| 17:05.46 | Pr0metheus | what's so bad about them? it will get resource hungry? |
| 17:06.03 | stovepipe | for example, something like evince in fvwm will have giant goofy built-in titlebar/buttons, with an fvwm border around the window |
| 17:06.21 | stovepipe | overriding the wm behavior and forcing GTK garbage in your face |
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| 17:06.57 | stovepipe | unnecessarily crappy |
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| 17:07.27 | Pr0metheus | well there seems nothing else to use, gtk or qt |
| 17:07.41 | stovepipe | the wm has its own behavior |
| 17:08.14 | stovepipe | it is inelegant and unnecessary |
| 17:08.18 | Pr0metheus | you can have the wm but all apps with a gui use gtk or qt |
| 17:08.22 | stovepipe | like everything else thats been going on |
| 17:08.43 | stovepipe | we're talking about window decorations, title bar, buttons |
| 17:09.35 | stovepipe | its not going to end well |
| 17:10.01 | stovepipe | but its not news that everyone has lost the plot |
| 17:10.10 | stovepipe | tahts why devuan exists |
| 17:13.08 | Pr0metheus | I am not sure devuan can do anything about it |
| 17:13.26 | stovepipe | well it did by ditching systemd |
| 17:13.55 | stovepipe | which is just another symptom of the actual problem |
| 17:14.16 | stovepipe | but as far as gnome garbage infecting everything, probably not |
| 17:14.51 | stovepipe | using xfce for the default is a good effort, but now that is tainted as well |
| 17:15.12 | jl4 | BTW, as as Beowulf newbie ... may i suggest that default Desktop to be Cinammon...? Why? ... because in my experience (e.g. with Xfce) Wicd seems to be unresponsive or there are hiccups... leading to a bad user experience. In my case had to completely re-install Devuan, selecting Cinammon in the second iteration, thus avoiding Wicd |
| 17:15.13 | mason | This stuff is only problematic if you accept someone's formal desktop environment. Tradition environments where you run a window manager and a set of applications you like are as healthy and vibrant as ever. |
| 17:15.29 | stovepipe | mason: that is not correct, as was described above |
| 17:15.47 | stovepipe | CSD invades whether you want it or not |
| 17:16.13 | mason | Um. I disagree but I feel no need to argue it beyond stating this. |
| 17:16.23 | Pr0metheus | jl4 and you are now using network manager? |
| 17:16.36 | stovepipe | you can choose not to argue, but your statement is incorrect |
| 17:16.59 | MinceR | 09 184639 < Pr0metheus> is i3 any better? |
| 17:17.01 | MinceR | not really |
| 17:17.01 | stovepipe | client side decorations are in the client window, and no ignores any window manager decorations |
| 17:17.14 | stovepipe | *now |
| 17:17.21 | MinceR | for example, if i press <Super>+d, <Esc>, then nothing will be focused |
| 17:17.33 | MinceR | and i have to switch back and forth to get a window to have focus |
| 17:17.41 | MinceR | if i kill x2x, it loses focus in the same way |
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| 17:18.31 | Pr0metheus | MinceR first time I hear you can have nothing in focus:P |
| 17:18.41 | MinceR | :> |
| 17:18.47 | MinceR | it's more common on Backdoors |
| 17:19.07 | jl4 | Pr0metheus ... yes i think so, it's what is shipped by Beowulf 'Cinammon'. |
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| 17:21.01 | Pr0metheus | jl4 I am then on the opposite side, had so many problems with network manager that wicd is much better for me |
| 17:25.45 | mason | I used to dislike Network Manager but I've learned how to wrangle the sporadic pain points I hit. Now I no longer dislike it so much, and just think it's a bit overengineered for what it does. I much prefer ifupdown. |
| 17:27.41 | stovepipe | actually yesterday i did witness what jl4 described for the first time |
| 17:28.07 | stovepipe | unable to connect for some mysterious reason |
| 17:28.43 | mason | Was the interface associated? |
| 17:28.54 | stovepipe | jl4: how long have you been using cinnamon now |
| 17:29.07 | fsmithred | stovepipe, you can install gtk3-nocsd |
| 17:29.11 | stovepipe | it took a long time for that to happen to me with xfce |
| 17:29.28 | stovepipe | fsmithred: that will eventually go away |
| 17:29.36 | fsmithred | so will gtk3 |
| 17:29.40 | stovepipe | heh |
| 17:29.54 | stovepipe | and CSD will be all you get in gtk4 |
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| 17:30.34 | fsmithred | lxqt is looking better and better |
| 17:30.38 | stovepipe | heh yeah |
| 17:31.26 | mason | stovepipe: When you saw the weird wifi behaviour, were you associated with the access point, or were you not able to get status from your nic? |
| 17:31.37 | mason | Or was it explicitly saying it wasn't associated? |
| 17:31.58 | stovepipe | just refused to connect |
| 17:32.28 | mason | That doesn't really narrow it down, but I guess you'd have had to have looked to get more detail. |
| 17:32.57 | stovepipe | i could see all the wifi networks, seemed normal enough, but just wouldnt connect |
| 17:33.18 | stovepipe | rebooted and it went as normal |
| 17:33.27 | stovepipe | so i didnt really look at it |
| 17:34.12 | mason | Next time it happens, maybe capture dmesg output, iw wlan0 info, or whatever you've got to look at the NIC's status. Maybe it's something that can be addressed. |
| 17:35.56 | stovepipe | probably wont happen to me again, its just a laptop in my mobile toolkit |
| 17:36.10 | stovepipe | which will be beowulf soon |
| 17:37.39 | stovepipe | mobile toolkit not being used much lately... |
| 17:38.43 | stovepipe | otherwise i'm all freebsd with one devuan server (jessie) |
| 17:41.05 | stovepipe | oh, is that why i dont see gtk3-nocsd heh |
| 17:41.17 | stovepipe | ahh yes, there it is on ascii |
| 17:44.26 | fsmithred | stovepipe, there's also (in beowulf) gtk3-nooverlayscrollbar to keep your scrollbars from disappearing. |
| 17:44.46 | fsmithred | in ascii, that's built into the darkpurpy theme |
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| 17:50.35 | stovepipe | cool thanks |
| 17:52.12 | stovepipe | i am intending to use fvwm again on that laptop when beowulf comes around |
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| 18:00.12 | jl4 | stovepipe ... i'm using Cinam. for a month... happy user |
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| 18:23.14 | Pr0metheus | is there an alternative to cups? |
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| 18:28.16 | Walex | Pr0metheus: yes, various implementations of LPD |
| 18:28.35 | Pr0metheus | Walex: any good suggestion? |
| 18:29.32 | Walex | Pr0metheus: for example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPRng |
| 18:30.12 | Walex | Note that AFAIK CUPS is the only print spooler with a built in web interface |
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| 18:37.42 | Pr0metheus | Walex: can these be used with inkjet printers also? |
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| 19:03.28 | Walex | Pr0metheus: a spooler just pushed around file contents, and optionally runs backends. IIRC LPRng can use the same backends as CUPS (the FOOMATIC system) |
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| 19:26.45 | ShorTie | what kernel is ceres ?? |
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| 19:53.08 | fsmithred | ShorTie, same as sid |
| 19:53.17 | fsmithred | looks like 5.5 |
| 19:53.46 | ShorTie | ok, Thankz |
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