| 00:09.57 | meep_____ | What man page contains the codes for what each of these %n does? |
| 00:09.57 | meep_____ | sysctl -w kernel.core_pattern=/var/crash/%t.%p.%u.%e.core |
| 00:10.17 | meep_____ | I knot t is time, p is program name, u is user, and e is PID |
| 00:10.22 | meep_____ | But where is the documentation |
| 00:15.03 | rrq | man core |
| 00:15.34 | meep_____ | Is there are reason not to enable ulimited size core dumps for everybody on the system? |
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| 00:38.26 | bpmedley | meep_____ : Imo, depends on your users. Will the disk get filled up with tons of core dumps? |
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| 01:12.44 | meep_____ | Not any more than i can clean out |
| 01:13.06 | meep_____ | It's a extraordinary thing for programs to crash |
| 01:13.09 | meep_____ | On my systems |
| 01:13.21 | meep_____ | So if it happens I want to know why |
| 01:41.59 | Hurgotron | meep_____: reproducible issue? Last time I had programs crashing / segfaulting I had bad memory. That took me a LONG time to find out. Been using ECC memory whereever possible since then... |
| 01:47.47 | meep_____ | That could explain some crashes |
| 01:48.00 | meep_____ | But like i said, not happening often enough |
| 01:48.17 | meep_____ | The worst thing is when it happens on a virtual machine container on a server that has ECC |
| 01:48.26 | meep_____ | Like the other day |
| 01:48.33 | meep_____ | My Prosody server crashed 2 times |
| 01:48.47 | meep_____ | By the time i turned on core dumps i has not happened since |
| 01:48.57 | meep_____ | To this day the issue has not reproduced |
| 01:49.28 | meep_____ | It worries me when I have ECC ram, and an internet facing daemon is segfaulting |
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| 11:06.38 | ShorTie | who ever decided to put all that gnome junk with ssh is kinda conceited, imho |
| 11:09.17 | ShorTie | why oh why is what i ask ?? |
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| 13:49.39 | cosurgi | ShorTie: which ssh package depends on gnome junk? |
| 13:59.04 | sixwheeledbeast | askpass-gnome was split out to remove dependency on GTK |
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| 15:24.06 | MSIVITALER^3I_ | Im curious does the devuan project hve any interest in FSF FSDG |
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| 15:38.53 | fsmithred | MSIVITALER^3I_, we've discussed the idea of adding a libre branch to the repo so that people could install that way if they wanted. But that's a long way off. Too much other stuff to do first. |
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| 16:36.59 | Guest25177 | MSIVITALER^3I_: *Im curious does the devuan project have any interest in FSF FSDG* |
| 16:37.22 | Guest25177 | the answer is: yes. |
| 16:38.19 | Guest25177 | there are some devuan derivatives focused to this goal |
| 16:39.30 | Guest25177 | today i'm reading some documentation about docker, because i've never used it |
| 16:40.14 | Guest25177 | i installed docker.io and run "docker images -a" without results |
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| 17:21.17 | MSIVITALER^3I_ | ok sounds good. Cheers for fast feedback |
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| 17:45.02 | Guest58982 | for example: heads, ethertics and gnuinos... another one gone away? |
| 17:51.30 | Guest58982 | maybe dynebolic, in a future |
| 17:55.18 | golinux | aitor never stays for long . . . :( |
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| 18:47.46 | meep_____ | » <sixwheeledbeast> askpass-gnome was split out to remove dependency on GTK |
| 18:47.46 | meep_____ | hey, that's actually an issue i'm trying to solve too |
| 18:48.08 | meep_____ | sixwheeledbeast: if you find out a solution to revert it back to the gimp toolkit instead of the gnome toolkit please ping me |
| 18:48.21 | meep_____ | Or what package is doing that |
| 18:48.25 | meep_____ | I think it's pinentry |
| 18:48.27 | meep_____ | But i'm not sure |
| 18:49.18 | sixwheeledbeast | you should be able to check what the packages depend on |
| 18:51.04 | meep_____ | The problem is i don't know what the binary is for the gnome popup that asks you for your key |
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| 18:52.00 | aitor | golinux: i'm here |
| 18:56.05 | bleb | in xfce, how do you turn off the xlock/xscreensaver thing which prompts you for a password whenever it wakes up from sleep? |
| 18:56.40 | bleb | I have set "disable screen saver" in screensaver preferences, but the lock screen still comes up when waking up. |
| 18:58.40 | fsmithred | bleb, check power manager settings |
| 18:58.51 | furrywolf | you have to do it in like four places in the power management settings too |
| 18:59.15 | bleb | i disabled the xfce power manager in order to get suspend working |
| 18:59.17 | fsmithred | I've never seen it as the default setting |
| 19:00.25 | fsmithred | bleb, did you install xfce from the tasksel menu in the install iso? Or did you install it in pieces? |
| 19:00.37 | bleb | fsmithred: the install iso |
| 19:00.43 | bleb | beowulf |
| 19:00.48 | fsmithred | ok, so nothing should be missing |
| 19:00.56 | fsmithred | assuming you selected a mirror |
| 19:01.00 | bleb | yes |
| 19:03.03 | fsmithred | did you log out of desktop after changing power manager settings? That might be necessary. Not sure. |
| 19:03.32 | fsmithred | I would go through all the settings again. |
| 19:04.02 | fsmithred | meep_____, maybe gnome-keyring or ssh-askpass-gnome |
| 19:04.06 | bleb | i can't access the xfce power manager settings without enabling xfce power manager, which causes suspend to stop working |
| 19:04.29 | bleb | i think it's caused by /etc/acpi/lid.sh |
| 19:04.30 | fsmithred | that's odd. |
| 19:05.08 | fsmithred | I have power manager enabled and can suspend fine |
| 19:05.27 | fsmithred | I do have to select it from the logout menu - does not happen on lid close |
| 19:05.48 | bleb | if xscreensaver is running, it runs xscreensaver-command -deactivate which i guess must hook into xlock or something |
| 19:06.17 | bleb | and for some reason xscreensaver was running even though it was disabled in xfce settings. i will try rebooting and see if xscreensaver still runs in the background. |
| 19:06.46 | mason | This is where IMHO desktop environments are more trouble than they're worth. |
| 19:06.50 | bleb | fsmithred: maybe suspend worked but i had to disable xfce power manager to get suspend on lid close working |
| 19:06.53 | fsmithred | I lock the screen with xscreensaver, but I don't let it run |
| 19:07.10 | fsmithred | oh, that could be |
| 19:09.43 | bleb | yeah so xscreensaver is running in the background again after rebooting |
| 19:09.53 | bleb | and it's locking again when i open the lid |
| 19:10.48 | bleb | so something is starting xscreensaver |
| 19:12.11 | bleb | pstree has it branching off from xfce4-session-+-Thunar---2*[{Thunar}] |
| 19:12.44 | fsmithred | look in Session and Startup, Autostart applications |
| 19:12.51 | bleb | ah yeah |
| 19:13.02 | bleb | Screensaver (Launch screensaver and locker program) |
| 19:13.08 | bleb | that was checked |
| 19:13.15 | bleb | i will uncheck it and that should fix it |
| 19:13.18 | fsmithred | that should help |
| 19:14.25 | enyc | meows |
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| 19:28.10 | furrywolf | pets the meowing |
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| 19:43.20 | bleb | yup all is well |
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| 20:28.52 | meep_____ | Does anybody know where I can get an aarch64 laptop? |
| 20:29.20 | meep_____ | I type that search term into amazon or ebay and duckduckgo and all i get is garbage X86 desktops |
| 20:29.23 | meep_____ | Running windows |
| 20:30.44 | specing | meep_____: pinebook? |
| 20:30.55 | specing | olimex has a laptop as well |
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| 20:34.16 | meep_____ | no not a pinebook |
| 20:34.24 | meep_____ | I need something to replace the IBM t/60 |
| 20:34.58 | meep_____ | something with a real keyboard and built to last at least 6+ years |
| 20:35.13 | meep_____ | not something designed to be a macbook clone |
| 20:35.22 | specing | so like another T400? |
| 20:35.27 | specing | T60* |
| 20:35.41 | specing | get it on ebay |
| 20:35.44 | meep_____ | my computers are investments not disposable cheapo plastic products |
| 20:36.20 | meep_____ | yeah, sorta like that except not intel based |
| 20:36.28 | specing | good luck, then |
| 20:37.02 | meep_____ | that obscure huh? |
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| 20:37.19 | meep_____ | ok where can I learn how to design a replacement motherboard then? |
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| 20:39.02 | meep_____ | the closest thing to what i need is the Theombra Systems Haiku evaluation board |
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| 20:39.28 | specing | meep_____: the hardest part is the case |
| 20:39.46 | specing | you can take a premade laptop board and create a "real laptop" around it |
| 20:40.03 | meep_____ | specing: If I am going to design my own motherboard I'd just re-use surplus IBM T60 parts |
| 20:40.12 | specing | okay then |
| 20:40.16 | specing | Start small |
| 20:40.18 | meep_____ | but yeah, I can't use pop in a theombra mobo |
| 20:40.24 | meep_____ | into a t60 |
| 20:41.01 | meep_____ | my biggest complaint about the theombra is that it doesn't have socketed DRAM |
| 20:41.09 | meep_____ | it's on the compute module |
| 20:41.24 | specing | Usually that's because the processors themselves don't support more |
| 20:41.28 | meep_____ | I don't mind having the CPU on a card, but in the future i might want tochange the ram |
| 20:41.35 | specing | for ARM you have to take a thunderX if you want e.g. 64GB RAM |
| 20:42.31 | meep_____ | I don't see such a limitation for the RK3399 |
| 20:42.31 | meep_____ | Memory: |
| 20:42.32 | meep_____ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:42.32 | meep_____ | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:42.51 | meep_____ | http://opensource.rock-chips.com/wiki_RK3399 |
| 20:42.58 | specing | rk3399 has max 4 gb iirc |
| 20:44.34 | meep_____ | are you sure? |
| 20:44.55 | meep_____ | hmm |
| 20:44.59 | specing | Support up to 2 ranks (chip selects) for each channel; totally 4GB(max) address space. Maximum address space of one rank in a channel is also 4GB, which is software-configurable 32bits/64bits data width is software programmable |
| 20:45.03 | specing | http://www.rockchip.fr/RK3399%20datasheet%20V1.8.pdf |
| 20:45.16 | meep_____ | thanks |
| 20:46.02 | meep_____ | do you know of any other aarch64 cpus with big-little arch and decent hardware offload capabilities? |
| 20:46.17 | specing | yes |
| 20:46.19 | specing | ThunderX |
| 20:46.42 | specing | Actually, that one might be just big |
| 20:46.47 | specing | it's a server cpu line |
| 20:47.02 | meep_____ | i don't know if that has what i need |
| 20:47.06 | meep_____ | power wise |
| 20:47.18 | specing | some cpus have configurable TDP |
| 20:47.18 | meep_____ | the reason why i wanted big-little was because this is for laptop usage |
| 20:47.20 | specing | like POWER9 |
| 20:47.44 | meep_____ | a lot of the time the system is very little usage with momentary spikes |
| 20:48.00 | meep_____ | it would begood to turn some cores entirely off except during peak loads |
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| 20:50.21 | tuxd3v_ | meep_____, for rk3399 you have already rockpi4, and its supported with devuan :) |
| 20:50.33 | tuxd3v_ | but its a sbc |
| 20:51.18 | specing | meep wants a real laptop |
| 20:51.35 | tuxd3v_ | tuxd3v also wants one :) |
| 20:51.59 | specing | forget about it, just stock up on t400 |
| 20:52.47 | meep_____ | hmm |
| 20:52.58 | meep_____ | maybe i could deal with 4 |
| 20:53.13 | meep_____ | but I would be very happy with 8GB DDR4 ECC |
| 20:53.15 | specing | 4? |
| 20:53.26 | meep_____ | 4 gigssystem memory |
| 20:53.56 | specing | haha, ECC in laptop... good luck |
| 20:54.09 | meep_____ | yeah |
| 20:54.17 | meep_____ | I never poweroff it off |
| 20:54.26 | meep_____ | sandby->on_standby->on |
| 20:54.45 | meep_____ | i will have very high uptimes |
| 20:55.15 | meep_____ | and if I could use aarch64, i wouldn't have to put it on a dock charger every night |
| 20:55.24 | meep_____ | *eery other night with fresh cells |
| 20:55.40 | meep_____ | and I could passively cool, so no moving parts |
| 20:55.45 | meep_____ | no motors to run |
| 20:55.51 | meep_____ | no dust to get inside |
| 20:56.15 | meep_____ | i already 100% passively cool the workstation I am talking to you on right now |
| 20:56.27 | meep_____ | and semi-passively my faster workstation on the other room |
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| 20:57.37 | Guest81407 | let me open a parenthesis: i was wrong about the docker's "docker images -a" command above, it lists the *downloaded* images via "docker pull distro:version" |
| 20:58.19 | meep_____ | i don't think stockpiling older thinkpad parts is going to work for many more years |
| 20:58.20 | specing | meep_____: active cooling is fine, as long as it is easy to clean |
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| 20:59.02 | meep_____ | specing: but for laptop workloads active cooling is completely exccessive |
| 20:59.06 | specing | meep_____: I don't think we'll get any real laptop running fully libre software anytime soon |
| 20:59.25 | specing | meep_____: I guess we have different ideas about what laptop workloads are |
| 20:59.38 | meep_____ | the only reason laptops need active cooling is either because they build them too thin for stupid marketing reasons or they run X86 |
| 20:59.53 | specing | one of my T400 has been at 95'C for the past 20 hours with 6k rpm fan and another one blowing over the whole laptop |
| 21:00.24 | specing | s/x86/have actually some performance/ |
| 21:00.50 | specing | all the ARMs you can buy in various devkits are a joke, performance wise |
| 21:01.00 | meep_____ | yes |
| 21:01.03 | specing | sure, some of them manage to outperform a 2008 intel these days |
| 21:01.04 | meep_____ | but arm isn't isn't |
| 21:01.09 | meep_____ | you get get decent arm cpus |
| 21:01.12 | specing | But you can't get a Cavium cpu |
| 21:01.14 | specing | you can't |
| 21:01.34 | meep_____ | the SBCs are more or less toys for schools or eval boards |
| 21:01.44 | specing | yes |
| 21:02.05 | specing | there is just no real market for high-perf arm |
| 21:02.17 | meep_____ | I'm not looking for high-perf arm |
| 21:02.28 | specing | .. |
| 21:02.46 | meep_____ | i'm looking for better than what intel could do 10 years ago but in a power effiecent package suitable for a battery power budget |
| 21:03.42 | meep_____ | I still use the Core2 Duo 1Ghz as a baseline cpu for testing if the software I use and develop should be reworked or not |
| 21:04.09 | meep_____ | it said software can't perform at least somewhat comfortable to use on that machine, then I need to look elsewhere |
| 21:04.52 | meep_____ | but going forward, I would appreciate a machine running the same efficient software, but with more headroom and better multitasking ability |
| 21:05.23 | meep_____ | i only use open source software, so it's literally for me just a matter of obtaining a C cross compiler |
| 21:06.02 | meep_____ | I do crazy high-perf workloads on the worstation |
| 21:06.36 | meep_____ | or SSH into the workstation (or wiregaurd vpn) with X11 forwarding for doing compute heavy tasks |
| 21:06.37 | specing | > meep_____ | I still use the Core2 Duo 1Ghz |
| 21:06.42 | specing | use cgroups cpu share limiter |
| 21:07.44 | meep_____ | specing: why do you say a cavium cpu is unobtainable? |
| 21:07.55 | specing | try to obtain it |
| 21:08.24 | golinux | (meep_____ and specing go down the rabbit hole) |
| 21:08.25 | meep_____ | you have experience with this? |
| 21:09.05 | specing | meep_____: no, but I tried looking it up online and couldn't find anything purchaseable/affordable |
| 21:09.09 | specing | https://www.phoenicselectronics.com/marvell/cavium-dev-kit.html |
| 21:09.16 | specing | woo, devkit only $27995 |
| 21:09.23 | specing | CHEAP |
| 21:15.47 | meep_____ | then lets go back to the rockchip if nothing else |
| 21:18.34 | specing | no |
| 21:18.36 | specing | it sucks |
| 21:18.47 | meep_____ | I've already tried contacting broadcom |
| 21:18.51 | specing | in 2020 I expect new equipment to support at least 32GB ram |
| 21:19.07 | meep_____ | They refused to sell me a chip because I'm not a large corporation |
| 21:19.13 | specing | no doubt |
| 21:19.37 | specing | Until they can do 32GB I'm just going to keep buying 2008 laptops |
| 21:19.47 | specing | since they can't do anything better |
| 21:19.49 | meep_____ | speccy, rockchip and cavium can't be only only vendors out there |
| 21:19.57 | specing | and in 2024 I'll upgrade my requirements to 64GB |
| 21:20.04 | specing | They aren't |
| 21:20.45 | meep_____ | that would be very nice if running 32gb of ram didn't use power power than accessing thessd |
| 21:21.06 | meep_____ | you could keep your entire os + software in the memory cache |
| 21:21.15 | meep_____ | *use more power than |
| 21:22.06 | meep_____ | well maybe i should contact rockchip again |
| 21:22.22 | meep_____ | I've heard they may be coming out with some more chips |
| 21:22.51 | meep_____ | unless, please anybody else speak up if you know of a cpu vendor that will sell to me |
| 21:23.24 | meep_____ | /whois speccing |
| 21:23.56 | specing | you want just the CPU? |
| 21:23.57 | meep_____ | also |
| 21:24.08 | meep_____ | specing: yes |
| 21:24.16 | meep_____ | and documentation |
| 21:24.17 | specing | ok |
| 21:25.00 | meep_____ | and also if there are some classes i can take on motherboard design |
| 21:25.09 | meep_____ | I already know the basics of using KiCAD |
| 21:25.21 | meep_____ | and I've used it to design control circuits for farm automation |
| 21:25.44 | meep_____ | that I just plug into the expansion port of any old aarch64 SBC |
| 21:26.00 | meep_____ | speak i2c and ttls serial to communicate with my boards |
| 21:27.13 | specing | meep_____: https://octopart.com/search?category_id=4299&corearchitecture=ARM&corearchitecture=PowerPC&maxfrequency=1700000000&maxfrequency=1400000000&maxfrequency=1420000000&maxfrequency=1500000000&maxfrequency=1600000000 |
| 21:27.14 | meep_____ | I want to learn so I can take this to the next step, which would be designing my own computers instead of custom PLCs |
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| 21:40.10 | meep_____ | Oh wow |
| 21:40.25 | meep_____ | Ppc but low power |
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| 21:57.28 | meep_____ | If i was to do this |
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| 21:57.44 | meep_____ | I could probably keep the cost down by doing system-modules like theombra does |
| 21:57.54 | meep_____ | With socketed ram |
| 21:58.13 | meep_____ | That way I could put most of the super high speed stuff on a very small PCB |
| 21:58.29 | meep_____ | Socket that into a lower density mainboard |
| 21:58.39 | meep_____ | Like how the pentiums used to ship |
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| 22:19.08 | mason | meep_____: FWIW, #debianfork is a better place for this. Most of us are in there. |
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| 22:21.59 | specing | meep meep |
| 22:22.13 | specing | That's the sounds everybody makes when golinux shows up in here |
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| 22:43.05 | Palaver | Hey guys, is devuan completly without systemd dependencies? |
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| 22:55.47 | golinux | specing: Time to meep . . . |
| 22:56.38 | specing | meep meep the tyrant is here meep meep |
| 22:56.46 | MinceR | lol |
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