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| 10:04.41 | syco- | hi |
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| 12:53.21 | Joril | Testing Beowulf mini.iso on a brand new Dell XPS 7390... |
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| 16:31.37 | dragast | hello, is there a devuan security mail list I can join? |
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| 16:43.11 | golinux | dragast: No |
| 16:43.53 | dragast | erm, okay, so then Devuan uses the Debian Security tracker? |
| 16:44.20 | golinux | Yes, we get Debian security updates |
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| 17:28.02 | TurBo_biT | hi guys! |
| 17:29.51 | TurBo_biT | I was talking with a friend and told me that as I know, Devuan don't use systemd init, but after that told me that it has dependences from systemd even if don't use systemd init |
| 17:30.56 | TurBo_biT | is this true? |
| 17:33.16 | debdog | devuan itself does not depend on systemd. however, some packages still require libsystemd0 to be installed |
| 17:34.23 | xrogaan | which is quite harmless. |
| 17:34.33 | MinceR | allegedly. |
| 17:34.46 | TurBo_biT | debdog, this packages comes with devuan distribution?, or need when install programs? |
| 17:36.01 | TurBo_biT | there's no substitute for that? |
| 17:36.06 | xrogaan | libelogind0 replace libsystemd0 |
| 17:36.42 | xrogaan | so you can install libelogind0 instead |
| 17:36.52 | TurBo_biT | xrogaan, so, it comes with libsystemd0 or libelogind0 |
| 17:36.58 | MinceR | which apparently has a less hostile upstream |
| 17:37.09 | debdog | xrogaan: on ASCII and Beowulf? |
| 17:37.23 | debdog | or Beowulf only |
| 17:37.24 | xrogaan | beowulf |
| 17:37.30 | debdog | ok, good to know! |
| 17:37.32 | xrogaan | IDK about ascii |
| 17:38.05 | xrogaan | A lot of stuff needs elogind in order to function/ |
| 17:40.03 | MinceR | a lot of stuff is broken :> |
| 17:40.56 | fsmithred | ascii has libelogind0 but it can't replace libsystemd0. In beowulf it can. |
| 17:41.25 | TurBo_biT | fsmithred, so, this is a step back no? |
| 17:42.02 | debdog | hehe, that probably depends on point of view |
| 17:42.07 | TurBo_biT | fsmithred, oh, sorry, beowulf, :P |
| 17:43.58 | fsmithred | we try not to move back whenever possible |
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| 17:47.55 | TurBo_biT | fsmithred, nice! |
| 17:48.30 | TurBo_biT | thx a lot to everyone for the information |
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| 17:49.20 | fsmithred | if you're a long-time debian user, using devuan will feel like coming home. |
| 18:05.47 | TurBo_biT | fsmithred, :))))) |
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| 18:12.57 | yeti | yip... |
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| 18:18.32 | BlackMug | hello there |
| 18:20.50 | BlackMug | anybody downloaded/tested devuan 3.0 beowulf desktop iso amd64 ? |
| 18:23.47 | fsmithred | BlackMug, yes I did. Install was fine and I could install apt-transport-tor in the new system without issues. |
| 18:24.32 | fsmithred | I did have to comment out the cdrom line |
| 18:24.52 | BlackMug | i will brb after 30 minute to debug why we have different outputs |
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| 18:48.30 | BlackMug | back |
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| 18:49.01 | BlackMug | in the installation steps did you choose mirrors ? |
| 18:49.31 | fsmithred | yes, deb.devuan.org |
| 18:50.32 | BlackMug | i didnt choose any , i uncomment the repos after installation |
| 18:50.53 | fsmithred | so you installed from the media without network? |
| 18:51.07 | BlackMug | yes |
| 18:51.33 | fsmithred | wish I'd known that yesterday |
| 18:52.00 | BlackMug | sorry |
| 18:52.20 | fsmithred | still should work if you uncommented and updated |
| 18:52.22 | BlackMug | but does it matter? |
| 18:52.24 | fsmithred | um |
| 18:52.28 | fsmithred | what did you uncomment? |
| 18:52.41 | fsmithred | there should only be cdrom line if you don't choose a mirror |
| 18:54.15 | BlackMug | true |
| 18:54.34 | BlackMug | but i comment cd rom |
| 18:54.45 | BlackMug | and enabled the commented mirrors |
| 18:55.39 | BlackMug | deb.devuan.org/merged beowulf-security main |
| 18:55.48 | BlackMug | ok i think i know my mistake |
| 18:55.50 | BlackMug | one sec |
| 18:55.55 | fsmithred | should be three deb lines |
| 18:56.06 | fsmithred | beowulf, beowulf-security and beowulf-updates |
| 18:57.05 | BlackMug | or no i thought i discovered my mistake by adding contrib and non-free but didnt work either |
| 18:57.31 | fsmithred | what is happening? |
| 18:57.39 | BlackMug | ah three lines ? |
| 18:57.45 | fsmithred | usually three |
| 18:57.57 | fsmithred | minimum one (beowulf) |
| 18:58.17 | BlackMug | why beowulf alone not there? only have beowulf-security and beowulf-updates |
| 18:58.25 | BlackMug | let me add the third one and check |
| 18:58.51 | fsmithred | I think that's because you did offline install |
| 18:58.59 | cosurgi | friend of mine was printing a .pdf document that he has written in .tex in emacs, but on apple mac OSX, not linux. And the printing was interruped with an error messaage printed on the paper: "offending command: systemd" |
| 18:59.16 | cosurgi | then he suddenly understood why I use devuan everywhere. |
| 18:59.17 | fsmithred | and the presumption is that you might at some time want to connect and get security fixes |
| 18:59.32 | cosurgi | but I have no idea how systemd got into his cups on OSX. |
| 18:59.38 | fsmithred | lol |
| 19:00.05 | fsmithred | cosurgi, have you ever seen grass grow up through concrete? |
| 19:00.05 | BlackMug | ok now we discovered the error |
| 19:00.15 | cosurgi | fsmithred: yeah, I did ;) |
| 19:00.22 | BlackMug | fsmithred beowulf only repo is not there |
| 19:00.33 | fsmithred | that's where most of the packages are |
| 19:00.42 | BlackMug | added beowulf manually and now it worked |
| 19:01.32 | BlackMug | ok devuan should fix this by either removing beowulf-updates and replace it with beowulf only |
| 19:01.41 | BlackMug | or add it so we have 3 repos |
| 19:02.50 | fsmithred | I don't know how much is involved in doing that |
| 19:03.58 | BlackMug | good now we know where is the issue of and how it should be fixed for missing packages |
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| 19:04.32 | BlackMug | nvidia , unconfigured wicd |
| 19:04.43 | BlackMug | any idea on them? |
| 19:04.46 | cosurgi | fsmithred: apparently the apple's concrete walled garden has more cracks in it than anyone wants to admit |
| 19:05.12 | fsmithred | what about nvidia? That something that people add after the initial install. |
| 19:05.40 | fsmithred | wicd will be configured in the installed system if you use the desktop-live isos |
| 19:05.53 | fsmithred | but it's not in debian-installer (the installer isos) |
| 19:06.46 | BlackMug | fsmithred what do you mean ppl add after initial install ? its installed by default in devuan not manually |
| 19:07.08 | fsmithred | what nvidia packages got installed? |
| 19:07.14 | fsmithred | dpkg -l |grep nvidia |
| 19:07.22 | fsmithred | don't paste them here! |
| 19:07.50 | fsmithred | or put them on one line |
| 19:08.51 | BlackMug | not showing in your installed version? |
| 19:09.08 | fsmithred | I wouldn't expect it to be installed on intel hardware |
| 19:09.35 | fsmithred | I've never heard of it being installed automatically |
| 19:09.37 | BlackMug | i wouldnt expect to installed at all because its proprietary |
| 19:10.11 | fsmithred | we allow the installer to add non-free and contrib packages if your hardware can use it. |
| 19:10.30 | fsmithred | If you want to exclude that, select Expert install |
| 19:10.40 | plasma41 | fsmithred: Was that not just for wifi firmware? |
| 19:11.13 | fsmithred | not sure. I think maybe firmware-amd-graphics gets added. |
| 19:11.21 | BlackMug | damn thats horrible to have non-free/contrib downloading themselves while installing the distro (even offline) |
| 19:11.52 | fsmithred | well, some people think it's horrible that they can't use their wireless connection. |
| 19:12.06 | fsmithred | especially those who have hardware that doesn't have an ethernet port. |
| 19:12.29 | BlackMug | yes they should knock knock on the wifi manufacture because of their proprietary shit |
| 19:12.36 | fsmithred | true |
| 19:13.00 | plasma41 | I have previously voiced the opinion that non-free firmware, if it is included at all, should be opt-in rather than opt-out. |
| 19:13.15 | BlackMug | not adding proprietary binaries by default to the users. convenient VS freedom |
| 19:14.07 | fsmithred | yeah, the installer would need major changes to do that |
| 19:14.55 | BlackMug | never known this, but this is bad idea hope it wont be the same for the coming releases |
| 19:15.15 | BlackMug | by now Debian has more freedom respect to their users than devuan |
| 19:16.32 | BlackMug | so now the three 3 problems identified |
| 19:17.59 | BlackMug | i think my tests done , thanks again for the support and good discussion |
| 19:18.05 | fsmithred | yw |
| 19:18.24 | fsmithred | thanks for testing and reporting |
| 19:18.30 | BlackMug | if you want me to test new releases or so im at #whonix on OFTC almost 24/7 |
| 19:18.42 | fsmithred | cool, thanks |
| 19:19.01 | BlackMug | have a good day , bye :) |
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| 19:24.05 | fsmithred | how can I unmount an iso that I already unmounted. I want to mount it again so I can look at the contents. "/dev/loop1 already mounted or mount point busy." |
| 19:24.37 | fsmithred | 'mount' does not agree with that message |
| 19:24.41 | fsmithred | neither do I |
| 19:24.43 | furrywolf | you shouldn't need to unmount something that's already unmounted... what does "mount" show? |
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| 19:24.57 | fsmithred | not any loop or iso |
| 19:25.03 | fsmithred | or mnt (my mountpoint) |
| 19:25.35 | fsmithred | I tried 'losetup -d /dev/loop1' and got no error, but it didn't fix it. |
| 19:25.58 | fsmithred | also tried a different mountpoint and got same error |
| 19:27.45 | furrywolf | does something still have a valid file handle or such? it shouldn't if umount completed, but lsof might be worth a try... |
| 19:28.00 | fsmithred | oh yeah, lsof |
| 19:28.16 | furrywolf | what command are you using to mount it? |
| 19:28.45 | fsmithred | mount devuan-blah.iso mnt |
| 19:29.07 | fsmithred | same as I've been doing since wheezy, I think |
| 19:29.12 | fsmithred | maybe jessie |
| 19:29.30 | furrywolf | do you already have several other things loop mounted? are you inside a nested mount or something silly? |
| 19:29.44 | fsmithred | nope |
| 19:29.55 | furrywolf | reboot? :) |
| 19:30.00 | fsmithred | sitting here at the desk operating pure hardware |
| 19:30.06 | fsmithred | yeah, I didn't want to say that first |
| 19:30.21 | fsmithred | it's been a couple week. Probably time to blow out some dust. |
| 19:30.54 | furrywolf | you're in the right directory to specify "mnt" without a full path? |
| 19:31.18 | fsmithred | yeah, it's in my home |
| 19:31.31 | fsmithred | I got the pid of loop1. Can I kill it? |
| 19:31.44 | furrywolf | pid of loop1? devices have pids now? |
| 19:31.59 | fsmithred | loop1 10008 root txt unknown /proc/10008/exe |
| 19:32.15 | furrywolf | heh, that's new, or I never noticed that. lol |
| 19:32.44 | fsmithred | there are two other lines, instead of txt, they are cwd and rtd |
| 19:33.02 | onefang | Kill the loop, kill the loop, kill the loop... Oops, recursive kill detected, LOOP GENOCIDE! |
| 19:33.51 | fsmithred | it's immortal |
| 19:33.56 | fsmithred | ok, brb |
| 19:34.03 | fsmithred | unless you have another idea |
| 19:34.13 | fsmithred | I could try init 1 first |
| 19:34.33 | furrywolf | if it's in an unkillable state, you might want to make sure you don't have drive errors or such. |
| 19:35.22 | fsmithred | passed and no reallocated sectors |
| 19:35.38 | onefang | That sounds like a reboot and blow the dust off the drive. Just don't remove the rust, it's the only thing holding your data together. |
| 19:35.48 | furrywolf | could be something glitched and/or you found a bug... |
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| 19:36.33 | fsmithred | "found" is a little optimistic. "encountered" is closer. |
| 19:37.04 | fsmithred | ok back in a few minutes |
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| 19:45.17 | fsmithred | plasma41, I don't see firmware-amd64-graphics in the firmware dir on the iso, so I guess it does not get added by default. I did add it in the desktop-live isos. |
| 19:46.10 | fsmithred | and I do see amd and intel microcode packages in the firmware dir, but I'm not sure if those get installed automatically. I never thought to check. |
| 19:47.38 | fsmithred | nope. It didn't get installed in yesterday's test. |
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| 19:58.46 | fsmithred | wonders what loop0 was doing before the reboot. |
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