IRC log for #devuan on 20200121

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06:06.49*** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Jessie 1.0 old-stable, ASCII 2.1 stable) | | Conference (2019) https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/
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21:02.45*** topic/#devuan is Welcome to Devuan! https://devuan.org | Releases: https://files.devuan.org (Jessie 1.0 old-stable, ASCII 2.1 stable) | | Conference (2019) https://www.dyne.org/the-first-devuan-conference/ | Forum https://dev1galaxy.org | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/
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21:03.52surrealpiefailed to fetch: http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged/dists/jessie/main/binary-armhf/Packages 404 Not Found [IP: 185.38.15.91 80]
21:04.37surrealpiewhen i look on the repo there is no file named "Packages", although there is "Packages.gz" and "Packages.xz" but i don't know if that's the problem
21:06.24onefangThat IP is a little odd.  Are you sure it's 185.38.15.91 and not 185.38.15.81?
21:06.59onefangYou should be using deb.devuan.org instead of  auto.mirror.devuan.org.
21:07.44onefangAnd most, if not all, Packages fil/es are present on the mirrors as the Packages.gz and Packages.xz files you saw.
21:09.36onefangIn this particular case, it is indeed the .gz and .xz versions in that directory.
21:11.50surrealpieoops yeah, its 81, not 91
21:12.28onefang.81 is my mirror, .91 isn't a Devuan mirror.
21:12.45surrealpieyeah the error i get says 81, i just typo'd
21:13.42surrealpiei will try deb.devuan.org
21:14.30onefangmerged/dists/jessie/main/binary-armhf/Packages should not exist on any mirror, only the .gz and .xz versions.
21:15.53surrealpiealright, so apt is just not showing the .gz in message
21:16.12surrealpiei changed the /etc/apt/sources.list
21:16.16surrealpieto lines like
21:16.19surrealpiedeb http://deb.devuan.org/merged jessie-security main
21:16.21*** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius)
21:16.28surrealpieinstead of auto.mirror.devuan.org
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21:19.27surrealpiei still get similar messages
21:19.30surrealpiehttps://pastebin.com/ggqZ9qLj
21:20.17surrealpiebut now GPG error
21:21.35surrealpiewith auto.mirror.devuan.org i don't have the GPG error
21:21.49onefangAh, jessie-updates doesn't exist anymore.
21:22.56onefangI think that's coz Beowulf hos become, or is about to become, stable, so ASCII is old stable, and only jessie-security gets updates.
21:23.27onefangOr maybe not just yet.
21:23.40onefangTry removing jessie-updates.
21:32.30golinuxauto.mirror has been deprecated for a long time.
21:45.14fsmithredsurrealpie, when was the last time you did update/upgrade?
21:46.51fsmithredmake sure you have the newest devuan-keyring
21:47.15surrealpieyeah, i installed an image but i just realized its from 2017
21:47.24surrealpiehttps://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/embedded/
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21:47.32surrealpielol
21:48.01fsmithredyeah, latest devuan-keyring is 2017.10.03
21:48.08fsmithrednewer than those images
21:48.18fsmithredis there some reason you must use jessie?
21:48.20onefangThat'll be why you have deprecated sources and outdated keyring.
21:48.39gnarfacei think they did remove jessie-backports, jessie-security, and jessie-updates
21:48.42surrealpiethere seems to be a more recent one, i will try that
21:49.00onefangjessie-security is still there.
21:49.07gnarfacesurrealpie: yes, you'll want to try ascii first unless you're in a weird situation
21:50.02surrealpieweird link from another site got me this old image and i didn't look if it was new
21:50.28surrealpiealthough the newest one is still from 2018 but with newer version
21:50.38gnarfacehttps://files.devuan.org/
21:51.27gnarfacepoke around in here a bit, this one is official
21:51.31fsmithredascii will work better
21:51.36surrealpieyeah that's what i got
21:51.47surrealpiei mean the link
21:51.53surrealpiegonna go with ascii
21:52.56surrealpiethx guys
21:53.07onefangYou are welcome.
21:53.09gnarfacegood luck.  we'll be here if you need us.
22:02.07DanielTheFoxhi there guys
22:03.01DanielTheFoxwhat desktop environment and/or window manager do you recommend me for lightweight (disk and/or RAM) portable (USB HDD) Devuan usage?
22:03.59fsmithredxfce is the default and is pretty light
22:04.25DanielTheFoxhas anyone used i3wm btw? (just out of curiosity)
22:04.54fsmithredyes, there are at least a couple of derivative distros that have offered live-isos with i3
22:05.10DanielTheFoxhow it feels like?
22:05.20DanielTheFoxcan it display VLC, for instance?
22:05.26DanielTheFoxor just terminals?
22:05.43fsmithredI assume it can display any graphical apps.
22:05.59fsmithredI only tried i3 once for a few minutes.
22:06.21fsmithredIt's not clicky enough for my tastes, even though I always have at least one terminal open.
22:06.48DanielTheFoxI'm very terminal-ish
22:07.12DanielTheFoxalthough sometimes (rather rarely) I fire a GUI up in my main computer
22:07.53DanielTheFoxjust to browse stuff that requires JavaScript (normally I use links2) or whenever I want to test stuff like VLC
22:08.00fsmithredcheck out Star Linux or Miyolinux: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewforum.php?id=9
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22:09.36DanielTheFoxalso, what is recommended in case I'm not always online on that Devuan install? there appears to be only one DVD
22:09.56fsmithredcorrect
22:10.15DanielTheFoxhow can I host a local package mirror? (I only need i686)
22:10.49DanielTheFoxthat is, having set beforehand a size limit
22:10.51fsmithredI think someone posted instructions for that on the forum
22:11.12DanielTheFoxlike "I want to host a local mirror that is 8 GB"
22:11.13fsmithredI think someone said 14GB recently
22:11.20DanielTheFoxoh
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22:11.31fsmithredbut that probably holds all arches
22:11.46DanielTheFoxok
22:11.52DanielTheFoxI thought Devuan was larger
22:11.59gnarfaceDanielTheFox: how light do you need it to be? twm is still in the repos...
22:12.19DanielTheFoxgnarface, if it fits in 192 MB RAM, it'll do
22:12.32fsmithredhttps://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt
22:12.39DanielTheFoxotherwise, I think I'm fine with xfce, or screen for pure tty1 guys like me
22:12.47fsmithredjwm and icewm use less than 192
22:12.56DanielTheFoxoh, like
22:13.00DanielTheFoxthe entire OS
22:13.01fsmithredxfce will if you make sure no extra stuff is running
22:13.05DanielTheFoxincluding kernel, stuff, junk
22:13.09DanielTheFoxbut not cache
22:14.05DanielTheFoxbut I start believing I'm asking for either too minimalistic window managers, or for miracles
22:14.27DanielTheFoxso I'll just stick with screen for low-RAM and non-GUI environments
22:14.34onefangThe mirrors usually redirect packages we share with Debian to Debian mirrors, so your local mirror could be small if you are happy doing that to.
22:14.49DanielTheFoxheh
22:15.00DanielTheFoxok, I'll read the walkthrough
22:15.11rrqthe sum of all beowulf/main/i386 package sizes is 69,546,192,646 bytes
22:15.11DanielTheFoxmaybe I can make it fit within 10 GB
22:15.25DanielTheFox(installing only the most popular packages and their depends)
22:15.48fsmithredyou might like the minimal-live iso
22:16.10DanielTheFoxwell
22:16.14DanielTheFoxI'm sure I can do this tradeoff
22:16.33DanielTheFoxa working install on said USB HDD should use as little space as possible
22:16.55fsmithredok, minimal-live might be too bloated for your taste
22:17.00DanielTheFoxhowever, I can afford to use some few GB (but not 50!) on my main HDD
22:17.05rrqall "required", "important" and "standard" packages fit within 4G
22:17.53DanielTheFoxfsmithred, I'm happy if an installed and ready-to-work Devuan fits below 1.5 GB
22:18.31fsmithredthat might be possible with gui. Not sure.
22:18.46fsmithrednot a lot of apps, though
22:19.02fsmithredjust cli system it's certainly possible (and pretty easy)
22:19.16DanielTheFoxDebian without GUI does about 800 MB, but as soon as I decide to install screen, htop, wireless stuff, ffmpeg, mplayer, it gets dangerously close to that
22:19.26DanielTheFoxthat was, Debian 9
22:19.34fsmithred10 is bigger
22:19.44fsmithredthat's always the case
22:19.56DanielTheFoxyeah
22:20.11DanielTheFoxbut again
22:20.16DanielTheFoxI think I'm asking for miracles
22:20.37fsmithredwhy 1.5GB?
22:20.56DanielTheFoxbecause I want to keep the ext3 partition Devuan uses to a minimum
22:21.10DanielTheFoxwhich I currently consider to be 3.5 GB
22:21.14onefangIf I recall, my server OS is about 1.5 GB for the OS itself.
22:21.16DanielTheFox(the size of a 4 GB USB)
22:21.30DanielTheFox3.5 - 1.5 = 2.0
22:21.32specingDanielTheFox: why don't you use a filesystem with compression?
22:21.45DanielTheFoxspecing, the same system is expected to work on low-power machines
22:21.53fsmithreddoes the OS need to be rw, or would you be ok with read-only on the OS?
22:21.55DanielTheFoxnot just i7's all around the place
22:22.00DanielTheFoxand, it needs to be RW
22:22.02specingDanielTheFox: de-compression is not that expensive compared to GUI
22:22.18DanielTheFoxspecing, what about compression? (writing to disk) :)
22:22.23DanielTheFoxmaybe that's all I need
22:23.03specingmaybe
22:23.05DanielTheFoxalthough I expect it to work on a Pentium III or a 2004 Celeron (the earliest systems that support USB booting)
22:23.25onefangOh, under 1GB.  B-)
22:23.32specingDanielTheFox: is that i686 even?
22:23.38DanielTheFoxit is :P
22:23.39fsmithredlol, yes
22:23.49specingah ok, Linux dropped <i586 support iirc
22:23.52DanielTheFox586 is Pentium (right after 486)
22:23.55fsmithred686 began with pentium-pro
22:23.58DanielTheFox686 is probab--
22:24.04DanielTheFoxI was gonna say Pentium II or MMX
22:24.12DanielTheFoxbut I wasn't sure
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22:25.03fsmithredanother solution might be to use a bigger usb stick.
22:25.17onefangWe still have Devuan ASCII for i386.
22:25.26DanielTheFoxbut oh well
22:25.43DanielTheFoxI don't know anymore what exactly I want
22:25.44fsmithredi386 in name only. It's 686.
22:26.02fsmithredwhat's the goal?
22:26.20DanielTheFoxother than replicating the 3-DVD Debian trick into a (faster and better) computer with spare HDD
22:26.34DanielTheFoxwe all know a DVD is 4.3 GiB
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22:27.08DanielTheFox(a KB and a KiB are both 2^10 to my eyes, so I may use them inconsistently)
22:27.32DanielTheFoxDebian currently allows downloading three DVDs (the first one being 3.5 GiB)
22:27.51DanielTheFox4.3 + 4.3 + 3.5 = 8.6 + 3.5 = 12.1 (?)
22:27.54fsmithredand I'll let you slide 'cause I always get confused by that math
22:28.06DanielTheFoxI'm not sure either
22:28.16DanielTheFoxso that's roughly 12 GiB
22:28.40DanielTheFoxand I do have spare 12 GiB on my netbook
22:28.57onefangThe math is simple, if you are a marketing person, use the bigger sounding numbers, if you are a programmer use powers of 2.  B-)
22:29.58DanielTheFoxonefang, I was born in 2001, but my favorite computers are all back when Microsoft's name was in every machine a regular household human could ever use
22:29.59onefangEveryone else has ten fingers, use powers of ten, unless you are from USA.
22:30.33DanielTheFoxnamely, C64 and no-brand 486-based computers are my favorites, despite not owning either
22:31.07DanielTheFoxeither Microsoft or IBM introduced the idea of 1 KB = 1024 bytes
22:31.07onefangI have a couple of 486 PCs here.
22:31.41DanielTheFoxwhich was great in low-power CPUs in the 70s and 80s because it's easier to shift left 10 bits than to actually MUL by 1000
22:32.11onefangAnd I'm three times your age.
22:32.34DanielTheFoxnamely, the 65XX CPUs (C64, NES, Apple II, Atari 2600) didn't have MUL (nor DIV) opcode, so a MUL requires dozens of cycles
22:33.21DanielTheFoxa left shift uses 1 or 2 cycles per shifted bit (unless it was on RAM, which then becomes 7 cycles)
22:35.00onefangNo need to give me a lesson in these sorts of things.  I was programming them professionally back in the day.
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22:36.06DanielTheFoxgreat
22:36.07mrpfilserdevuan beowulf: ibgtkmm-3.0-dev : Depends: libgtkmm-3.0-1v5 (= 3.24.0-2) but 3.24.2-1 is to be installed
22:36.09DanielTheFoxso you know the drill
22:36.14mrpfilsercan i force install libgtkmm-3.0-dev?
22:36.50mrpfilseror is this something that package maintainer should be informed-of?
22:37.02mrpfilserwhy is the depends "=" and not ">="
22:37.22mrpfilser"your dependency is too new for me" i do not understand
22:37.42fsmithred3.24.2-1 is in ceres, not beowulf
22:38.09mrpfilseri reupdate and retry
22:38.15onefangSometimes newer versions deprecate then remove features, often coz they got replaced by a "better" way.
22:38.15fsmithredcheck sources.list
22:38.53mrpfilserall beowulf in sources.list  all packages up-to-date.
22:39.12onefangSometimes configuration options get changed gratuitously for each version, I'm looking at you tmux.
22:40.12mrpfilsercan i force install apt install  libgtkmm-3.0-1v5:3.24.0-2
22:40.15onefangAnd sometimes package maintainers screw up.
22:40.23mrpfilser?
22:40.26fsmithredmrpfilser, remove 'testing' from sources.list and replace it with 'beowulf'
22:40.45mrpfilserhere is /etc/apt/sources.list http://0x0.st/zCSj.list
22:42.11fsmithredok, then I don't know why apt wants to install a package from ceres
22:42.32fsmithredmaybe try 'apt install libgtkmm-3.0-1v5=3.24.0-2'
22:42.33mrpfilserah i am silly apt install  libgtkmm-3.0-1v5=3.24.0-2
22:42.38mrpfilserthank you fsmithred
22:43.08fsmithredI glad it works, but it still bugs me that apt wanted to do that
22:43.56mrpfilserwho is the proper person to inform of this?
22:44.25fsmithredprobably debian
22:44.47golinuxmrpfilser: Please do not use "testing" in Devuan sources.  It can put you into a world of hurt
22:44.52fsmithredhe's not
22:45.18mrpfilseri send email to pkg-gnome-maintainers@lists.alioth.debian.org
22:45.32fsmithredI would try to figure out why it's doing that first
22:45.53fsmithredexamine dependencies of the packages involved
22:46.00fsmithredsomething might be screwed up there
22:48.28mrpfilserthis is a subbranch problem of a subbranch problem of my real goal so i have to prune it
22:48.31mrpfilserthanks again
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23:26.17ndo-hello
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