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| 02:04.02 | mrpfilser | firefox-esr (68.4.1esr-1) on devuan-arm (aarch64, beowulf) still crashes with 'Illegal Instruction'. Another developer reports a similar crash occurring when gcc >=5.0 used to compile it. |
| 02:04.23 | mrpfilser | i'd build it myself but not going to mess with rust |
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| 02:11.38 | TwistedFate | seems like nobody wants to mess with rust these days |
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| 02:28.16 | yooey | does anybody got the rundown on installing the latest backport kernel on ascii |
| 02:29.28 | gnarface | shoul be the same as with debian, but the repo name is "ascii-backports" |
| 02:29.34 | gnarface | should be * |
| 02:29.36 | yooey | whats the package name |
| 02:30.06 | gnarface | package name should be the same as debian |
| 02:30.11 | yooey | alright |
| 02:30.28 | yooey | just making sure, i dont wanan screw up a fresh install and im new to devuan, and i havent used debian since like 2013 |
| 02:31.02 | gnarface | well once you put it in your sources.list you can search there |
| 02:31.07 | yooey | so is "same as debian" the rule of thumb here |
| 02:31.13 | yooey | I already got my sources set up |
| 02:31.40 | gnarface | for package names, mostly |
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| 02:38.11 | yooey | if i want to update mesa what packages should i install |
| 02:38.42 | gnarface | i'm not sure off the top of my head what all of them are |
| 02:38.54 | gnarface | sorry |
| 02:39.25 | gnarface | you at least need libgl1-mesa-glx but i'm sure several others too |
| 02:39.49 | gnarface | if you're getting them from backports, probably just get all of them from backports |
| 02:40.12 | gnarface | (just all the mesa backports, and the kernel, not literally "everything" from backports) |
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| 11:03.59 | tuxd3v | mrpfilser, whas it built for soem specific set of clusters? |
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| 14:23.55 | yooey_ | I've done the following, and half my steam games don't work. Am I missing any MESA packages? |
| 14:23.57 | yooey_ | https://pastebin.com/Tp0SM95y |
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| 15:05.51 | Leander | which version of steam are you using? linux, windows? and are your games available on linux or do you need proton to run them? |
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| 15:15.56 | mason | Using something like baspte.net or paste.debian.net will garner more views. pastebin.com wants to run an awful lot of JS on our machines. |
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| 16:38.41 | yooey_ | leander im using steam from the repo. the only native linux game i tried was tf2 and it ran flawlessly. i tried raiden 4 in proton and it worked perfectly. guilty gear xrd, anything that uses unity, and a few more titles didnt work in proton |
| 16:38.51 | yooey_ | these have all previously worked on other systems |
| 16:39.02 | yooey_ | sorry for late response, i had to go to the store |
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| 19:13.49 | gnarface | yooey_: MESA still isn't as well supported on Steam as NVidia's crap is unfortunately. depending on your video card model though, the problem may just be how old the stock Mesa in devuan ascii is. You might have better luck if you get the kernel and mesa packages from ascii-backports. |
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| 19:14.53 | gnarface | yooey_: (note that ascii corresponds to Debian stretch; aka. oldstable |
| 19:14.55 | gnarface | ) |
| 19:15.56 | gnarface | yooey_: (you could also try beowulf or ceres. if all you're doing with this is gaming, you might have a better experience following unstable just because that's what many game publishers do) |
| 19:16.24 | gnarface | yooey_: (yes, i know this is undignified. i didn't do it.) |
| 19:17.21 | gnarface | yooey_: it might help if you dig up the relevant library versions from a known-working distro |
| 19:19.40 | gnarface | i just know the version of mesa actually in ascii directly predates the current builds of most the games on Steam. hell, the stock ascii drivers for nvidia don't even work with Steam, for that matter. you'd need ascii-backports for a nvidia card, too. |
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| 20:05.17 | yooey_ | gnarface the reason im coming back to debian at all is because I hate rolling release |
| 20:05.31 | waynedpj | fsmithred thanks for the info about getting the 5.3 kernel, very useful .. however i spoke too soon: i was assuming that the netinst install would work, but unfortunately i am stuck at the spot as the live installer i.e. waiting for the root disk, which never appears, dumped to initramfs, no cryptsetup. i have tried everything i can think of to |
| 20:05.31 | waynedpj | add to the GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX but no luck. did you ever figure out why the boot was getting stuck waiting for the root fs? |
| 20:05.38 | yooey_ | im a loooooooooooooooongtime slackware user |
| 20:05.45 | yooey_ | i like stable stuff and debians really good at that |
| 20:05.54 | yooey_ | mesa 18.XXX is new enough for me |
| 20:06.10 | yooey_ | i just dont know why half my games arent wokring because theyve worked on other stuff |
| 20:30.56 | fsmithred | waynedpj, no, I didn't figure it out and probably won't play with it more. Too much other stuff to do right now (beowulf) |
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| 20:39.55 | gnarface | yooey_: because mesa 13.xxx is what is in ascii. :-/ |
| 20:40.15 | waynedpj | fsmithred of course, checking just in case. thanks again for all your help thus far. |
| 20:41.14 | waynedpj | on another note, is it possible to switch to OpenRC from a system already installed with SysVInit? |
| 20:41.15 | gnarface | yooey_: (if you already got 18.xxx from the ascii-backports repo as of this message, make sure you got the kernel from there too. then check debian wiki notes about whether you should be using the radeon or amdgpu driver for your particular card, and make sure you have the non-free firmware if applicable (all the new super fast RX cards) |
| 20:41.20 | gnarface | ) |
| 20:42.47 | gnarface | yooey_: and for the record, unstable isn't really a "rolling release" (Debian moderators will jump down your throat for characterizing it as such) though i understand what you mean, and i can sympathize if it's still too close to a rolling release for comfort. |
| 20:43.26 | gnarface | yooey_: but if you're gaming, and doing this for gaming compatibility, keep in mind that Windows and Steam and all of Battle.net are all effectively "rolling release" in the same sense |
| 20:44.00 | gnarface | yooey_: but as for it working on other stuff and just not on Devuan - it's either user error or version mismatches. |
| 20:44.15 | gnarface | yooey_: so check those library versions like i said |
| 20:46.01 | gnarface | waynedpj: yes. the answer is yes. |
| 20:47.13 | gnarface | waynedpj: (though i think the default install currently inherited from Debian actually installs them both concurrently, there has been community work here on integrating the "gentoo-style" setup where openrc runs stand-alone. i'm not sure the current status on that, but if you need it ask around) |
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| 20:57.43 | waynedpj | gnarface thanks for the heads up, as i am coming from Gentoo so did not expect to have to keep sysvinit also installed. |
| 20:59.52 | gnarface | waynedpj: no problem. this is a common pitfall for people coming from Gentoo. for the moment, to get that same behavior i think you have to rebuild openrc yourself (or get a 3rd package from someone who has already) but the process did not actually sound very difficult compared to building any other package |
| 21:00.12 | gnarface | *3rd-party package, i meant to say |
| 21:03.14 | gnarface | waynedpj: (it is probably worth mentioning for the record that the Debian people did it this way for reverse-compatibility, and there is a compelling argument that having both of them installed concurrently gives you the best of both worlds. that's just why it's like that by default. i suspect at some point there will be two openrc packages in the repo, one for the legacy setup and one for the new setup) |
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| 21:46.24 | waynedpj | gnarface OK, sounds good. i am trying Devuan to get away from compiling everything all the time so i will give the Devuan/Debian was a try first :) it is as easy as "apt-get install openrc"? |
| 21:54.32 | waynedpj | was->way |
| 21:54.34 | gnarface | waynedpj: uh, that i'm not sure. i think there might be a secondary setup step involved. |
| 21:54.47 | waynedpj | would this page apply https://wiki.debian.org/OpenRC ? |
| 21:54.56 | gnarface | probably, but lemme look... |
| 21:56.49 | gnarface | waynedpj: uh... some of it looks relevant, but the parts where they are saying build it from scratch or get a version from the "experimental" repo i question... this might actually be the way to set it up the new Gentoo-style way, rather than the traditional Debian legacy way. |
| 21:57.05 | gnarface | i note that they reference the Gentoo handbook |
| 21:57.11 | gnarface | and their wiki page |
| 21:58.04 | gnarface | waynedpj: in the old setup, sysvinit still handles startup, including starting openrc, then openrc can be used for process monitoring as usual after that. |
| 21:59.12 | gnarface | for that setup you might just be able to "apt-get install openrc" but i seem to recall some people mentioning another step if you didn't use the devuan installer to get it at initial setup... maybe something about changing a line in a config file or pointing a symlink somewhere else... |
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| 22:04.53 | gnarface | hmmm,. maybe the /etc/inittab or /etc/init.d/rc files. they're ringing a bell ... i just never did this myself sorry |
| 22:07.29 | gnarface | waynedpj: i know for sure at least 3 people minimum preceded you on this journey. if all else fails, just hang out here. it's a slow channel but one of them is certain to come back who can share info. |
| 22:07.54 | gnarface | waynedpj: also check the forums, i can't imagine this hasn't come up there too |
| 22:18.29 | waynedpj | gnarface: thanks for the help, i will avoid the building from scratch parts and doing experimental. |
| 22:19.18 | waynedpj | along similar lines, is running a rolling release possible with Debian/Devuan? is that just as simple as changing your sources.list to use "testing" instead of "stable"? |
| 22:20.54 | waynedpj | someone mentioned it earlier and you replied that unstable was not really a rolling release |
| 22:22.40 | TwistedFate | dang it, yooey always goes away before i get here :/ |
| 22:26.04 | mason | waynedpj: The way Debian Testing works is rolling release, yeah. |
| 22:26.30 | mason | waynedpj: Packages hit Sid, and if there are no issues for some period - I think it's ten days - they move to Testing. |
| 22:26.55 | mason | waynedpj: I like slower/more stable stuff myself, but I've run Testing before for extended periods, and it's generally safe. |
| 22:27.22 | waynedpj | mason: thanks, so i assume that it works the same for Devuan? coming from Gentoo i fear the dist-upgrade, it is what drove me to Gentoo years ago. |
| 22:28.09 | mason | waynedpj: I'm not sure if Devuan testing points to Debian testing or to Debian sid. It's worth knowing that before you try it. |
| 22:28.44 | waynedpj | so Sid is always unstable in Debian-speak? |
| 22:28.54 | mason | Yes. |
| 22:29.06 | mason | There's Experimental, Sid, Testing, Stable, and Old Stable. |
| 22:29.34 | golinux | Sid = Ceres in Devuan |
| 22:30.20 | golinux | Please use release names not stable, testing etc. in devuan sources.list |
| 22:30.37 | golinux | That could cause a world of hurt if you do. |
| 22:31.00 | mason | Well. It's more uncontrolled certainly. |
| 22:31.46 | golinux | Now Debian and Devuan suites are mismatched. Devuan is on Debian oldstable |
| 22:32.02 | mason | Hrm, https://devuan.org/os/releases has an out of date chart of names. |
| 22:32.16 | golinux | So with stable atm you will get a frankendevuan |
| 22:33.00 | golinux | The site was just migrated to a new server and that old page reappeared. We just discussed it at the meet. |
| 22:33.03 | mason | waynedpj: Anyway, if you want some interesting data that will indirectly speak to Devuan, check out https://qa.debian.org/dose/debcheck/testing_main/index.html |
| 22:33.36 | waynedpj | so if i want to get a rolling release with Devuan testing, i would change me sources to use ceres? but then eventually i would have to change it to the new testing release name whenever it appears? |
| 22:33.37 | golinux | We just closed down the meet. You should have come. |
| 22:33.38 | fsmithred | waynedpj, I think to install openrc on an existing system is just 'apt install openrc' |
| 22:34.01 | mason | golinux: I had a meeting I couldn't skip, and learned that I have a new manager, etc. |
| 22:34.02 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.154.19.116) |
| 22:34.12 | fsmithred | at worst, it will give you a command to run, but I think that's automatic now. I know it's easy if you choose it during the install. |
| 22:34.18 | mason | golinux: Some internal shuffle. It's a good thing for me, but surprising. |
| 22:34.42 | mason | golinux: I want to attend meetings, but I want something to share and present so I'm not just filler. :P |
| 22:34.46 | golinux | Yes, I saw your note but then I saw you here when the meet was still going on |
| 22:34.53 | mason | I'm still working on my mysterious project, which will be useful if I get it done. |
| 22:34.54 | fsmithred | if you install it in an existing system, do it in a terminal so you can copy/paste the command. It's long |
| 22:35.07 | golinux | Doesn't matter. Hope all sorts out at your work. |
| 22:35.07 | mason | Oh, it just now ended? I could have appeared late then. |
| 22:35.12 | golinux | Yes |
| 22:35.14 | mason | golinux: Oh, yeah, it's all very good. |
| 22:35.28 | mason | I'm planning to have something for the next meeting. |
| 22:35.38 | golinux | Great! |
| 22:36.09 | golinux | Nice that you're still hanging around |
| 22:36.40 | mason | golinux: Oh, I'm hanging around and deploying more and more Devuan locally. |
| 22:36.54 | golinux | Excellent |
| 22:36.57 | mason | I'm moving the family over to it as well. |
| 22:37.13 | golinux | A captive audience! |
| 22:37.16 | mason | And half the house infrastructure has moved over. |
| 22:38.21 | mason | I have some older hardware that can't use my UEFI-based install scripting, so I'm - and I wasn't going to talk about this, but it's kind of fun - working on setting up native Devuan PXE booting. We don't ship the necessary parts, so I'm examining the Debian bits and I'll constitute an equivalent with Devuan parts. |
| 22:39.11 | mason | golinux: I'll commit to having it tested and polished for the next meeting. I know someone on the lists or in here or something was asking for this feature, and I need it myself now, which is the best drive for doing it. |
| 22:40.09 | fsmithred | Excellent! Thanks, mason. I know several people asked for this. |
| 22:40.34 | mason | fsmithred: I'll share what I come up with as it's usable. |
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| 22:40.59 | waynedpj | fsmithred: thanks. BTW i figured out the install+booting with Btrfs+encryption w/o LVM: something was wrong with the initramfs, not sure what. i will update the forum posts later with the details. thanks again for all the help. |
| 22:41.29 | mason | waynedpj: can you get a screenshot of where the initramfs leaves you? |
| 22:41.35 | fsmithred | you are welcome, and thanks in advance for the update. |
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| 22:41.50 | mason | Oh, you figured it out. Misread. Good deal. |
| 22:43.06 | fsmithred | waynedpj, possibly /run/udev missing, I got messages about lockfile in /run/cryptsetup missing, and possibly something else (/run/lvm maybe?) I ran into some of this early last year. |
| 22:43.20 | fsmithred | brb |
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| 23:06.33 | fsmithred | waynedpj, askpass is missing from initrd |
| 23:06.52 | fsmithred | cryptsetup is missing |
| 23:17.06 | mason | fsmithred: This bites me sometimes, if I have cryptsetup installed, but not cryptsetup-initramfs. |
| 23:17.25 | fsmithred | I have cryptsetup-initramfs |
| 23:17.58 | fsmithred | and /etc/cryptsetup-initramfs/conf-hook has CRYPTSETUP=y |
| 23:22.01 | fsmithred | gotta go. bbl. |
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| 23:56.13 | golinux | mason: Just caught up with you post about getting PXE booting working on Devuan. What a great project! There was recently an email on DNG from someone wanting this . |
| 23:56.55 | mason | Working at it. |
| 23:57.31 | golinux | :D |
| 23:57.47 | golinux | That would be a great contribution! |