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| 00:03.46 | Xenguy_ | 2 universes that will never collide |
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| 02:21.50 | bleb | anyone here familiar with gnumeric |
| 02:23.13 | bleb | i opened a csv file with dates in YYYYmmddHH:MM:SS format |
| 02:23.33 | bleb | then it automatically interpreted them in some fucked up way so if i export it as csv, it looks entirely different |
| 02:24.22 | bleb | i have a bunch of edits to this csv file but if i export to csv the dates are wrong |
| 02:24.34 | bleb | yet they look correct in gnumeric][ |
| 02:25.47 | gnarface | i likely can't help at all with gnumeric, sorry... but libreoffice-calc is in the repos and may have a more familiar interface |
| 02:30.26 | bleb | yeah i won't be using gnumeric again |
| 02:30.45 | bleb | but i'd like to salvage the edits i've made and not have to manually reproduce them in libreoffice |
| 02:32.17 | holycow | can gnumeric save in .ods? maybe open up calc and gnumeric and copy/paste from gnumeric? |
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| 02:32.26 | holycow | the only workarounds i can think of that might work |
| 02:32.44 | bleb | this is incredibly bad |
| 02:34.55 | bleb | i can save in various formats including .xls |
| 02:35.16 | bleb | but the resulting data is the mangled date format, not what is displayed in gnumeric |
| 02:35.36 | holycow | copy / paste from gnum --> calc? |
| 02:41.01 | bleb | hey that seems to be working |
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| 03:51.32 | waynedpj | fsmithred ahoy, here is the info that you requested regarding installing to existing Btrfs subvolumes from our discussion last night: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=19438#p19438 thanks again. |
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| 06:44.38 | guenthert1 | I seem to have difficulties computing the right SHA256 of devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso. |
| 06:45.00 | guenthert1 | I get |
| 06:45.03 | guenthert1 | --8<-- |
| 06:45.05 | guenthert1 | $ sha256sum Downloads/devuan_ascii/devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso |
| 06:45.05 | guenthert1 | 9aa6de460fb944ddfec8c79306974a522be166e4d296e9673f083f9e1cc6c56c Downloads/devuan_ascii/devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso |
| 06:45.08 | guenthert1 | -->8-- |
| 06:46.01 | guenthert1 | when SHA256SUMS lists $ grep amd64_netinst Downloads/devuan_ascii/SHA256SUMS |
| 06:46.01 | guenthert1 | 2095a33e874781d3995bc477ca83dfb6250552fa9ff2db4bc71423a37f42fb99 devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso |
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| 06:49.54 | guenthert1 | I downloaded the file from two mirrors and computed the SHA256 on ARM (bananian) and AMD64 (Ubuntu 18.04), same result. |
| 06:51.15 | guenthert1 | need to catch some naptime now ... |
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| 14:04.42 | nemo | I wonder if debian would consider "overlaying" a more sensible intuitive category + package name like gentoo has |
| 14:04.52 | nemo | guessing how debian deduped a package name gets annoying |
| 14:05.38 | nemo | generalcategory-specific/appname |
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| 15:11.28 | GyrosGeier | hm? |
| 15:11.31 | GyrosGeier | package names are unique |
| 15:11.52 | GyrosGeier | category/package is just for the admin user |
| 15:12.15 | GyrosGeier | you mostly see these in aptitude |
| 15:12.22 | GyrosGeier | or dselect, if you are ancient |
| 15:15.39 | nemo | GyrosGeier: yeah, I was just getting annoyed at weird debian package names |
| 15:15.41 | nemo | due to collisions |
| 15:16.40 | nemo | some sort of hierarchical organisation would make it easier to keep them distinct instead of inventing new random appendages at the end with no consistency |
| 15:17.08 | nemo | GyrosGeier: I'm kinda split between gentoo and devuan at home and constantly finding things I love/find annoying with each ⺠|
| 15:17.55 | nemo | [N] net-analyzer/slurm (0.3.3-r2): Realtime network interface monitor based on FreeBSD's pppstatus [N] sys-cluster/slurm (~19.05.5.1): A Highly Scalable Resource Manager |
| 15:19.14 | GyrosGeier | yup |
| 15:19.31 | GyrosGeier | it also doesn't help that / is used in apt to say "from this release" |
| 15:19.40 | GyrosGeier | e.g. "apt install netcat/ascii" |
| 15:19.43 | nemo | GyrosGeier: well. it could be some other magic pattern |
| 15:19.49 | GyrosGeier | a dash |
| 15:19.52 | nemo | haha |
| 15:19.55 | GyrosGeier | that is basically what we do |
| 15:20.00 | nemo | GyrosGeier: FINE. but more consistently ð |
| 15:20.04 | nemo | and with standard metadata |
| 15:20.34 | GyrosGeier | we do something more useful and tell people off |
| 15:20.50 | GyrosGeier | "no, that particular acronym already exists" |
| 15:21.04 | nemo | well. I guess debian does serve a useful function then |
| 15:21.09 | GyrosGeier | or "yes, we know you were first, but both of your users will understand" |
| 15:21.10 | nemo | and encourage less name collision in the FOSS world |
| 15:21.19 | nemo | but it'd be still nice to have |
| 15:21.33 | GyrosGeier | the latter happened with the GNU Interactive Tools, aka "git" |
| 15:21.48 | nemo | also. gentoo does this for related packages too. debian does as well, but while it's kinda consistent, they seem to break it at will |
| 15:22.07 | GyrosGeier | it's an inexact science |
| 15:22.25 | GyrosGeier | if we came up with rules, we'd spend a lot of time arguing about rules |
| 15:22.43 | nemo | for example that slurm has acct-group/slurm and acct-user/slurm and sys-cluster/slurm and yes, their organisation would have dedupe forced if the freebsd tool had needed those too |
| 15:22.55 | nemo | GyrosGeier: yeah, it's probably too late now |
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| 16:55.26 | guenthert | So I just downloaded from a 3rd site, this time with a AMD based machine (thought there might be an issue with my BananaPi), but I still get |
| 16:55.37 | guenthert | $ sha256sum devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso |
| 16:55.37 | guenthert | 9aa6de460fb944ddfec8c79306974a522be166e4d296e9673f083f9e1cc6c56c devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso |
| 16:55.58 | guenthert | which doesn't match the value in SHA256SUMS |
| 16:57.56 | Hurgotron | grep devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso SHA256SUMS |
| 16:57.56 | Hurgotron | SHA256 (devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso) = 9aa6de460fb944ddfec8c79306974a522be166e4d296e9673f083f9e1cc6c56c |
| 16:58.04 | Hurgotron | looks ok to me. |
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| 17:41.50 | fsmithred | SHA256 (devuan_ascii_2.1_amd64_netinst.iso) = 9aa6de460fb944ddfec8c79306974a522be166e4d296e9673f083f9e1cc6c56c |
| 17:42.43 | fsmithred | ^^^ guenthert, that's the checksum in the SHA256SUM file on files.devuan.org, and that's also what I get on the iso I downloaded from there. |
| 17:45.37 | fsmithred | and that is the correct one. |
| 17:48.33 | fsmithred | guenthert, where did you download the SHA256SUMS file? |
| 18:07.07 | guenthert | Thanks for having a look. I got the SHA256 file from belltower.us: |
| 18:07.12 | guenthert | wget --no-check-certificate https://mirror.belltower.us/devuan/devuan_ascii/installer-iso/SHA256SUMS |
| 18:13.00 | fsmithred | ERROR: The certificate of âmirror.belltower.usâ has expired. |
| 18:13.06 | fsmithred | so says wget |
| 18:17.09 | guenthert | I see the files on belltower.us listed with a mtime of 20191022, while ASCII 2.1 was released 20191121. With the SHA256 of another mirror, the sums match now, thanks! |
| 18:17.53 | fsmithred | good. sorry about the confusion. |
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| 22:29.14 | tuxd3v | hello, does any one knows a lighter desktop nevironent than Equinox? |
| 22:32.26 | jonadab | I don't know Equinox, but there are always tiling window managers like ratpoison and ion and whatnot. |
| 22:32.51 | jonadab | Or, if you don't want to go that route, twm. |
| 22:33.11 | MinceR | or icewm or fvwm |
| 22:33.12 | jonadab | twm is about as lightweight as it gets, I think. |
| 22:33.23 | jonadab | fvwm is also pretty light, yeah. |
| 22:34.04 | jonadab | twm is light enough to run on a 486. |
| 22:34.14 | tuxd3v | Equinox is around 100MB of Ram, |
| 22:34.33 | tuxd3v | I wanted a desktop enviroment at lets say, some 70-80MB |
| 22:35.16 | tuxd3v | I can go fluxbox |
| 22:35.23 | tuxd3v | at around 77MB now |
| 22:35.57 | tuxd3v | god.. Win xp run in 98Mb of Ram.. |
| 22:36.04 | tuxd3v | whats hapenned with linux? |
| 22:36.17 | tuxd3v | I mean with userpace.. |
| 22:36.22 | tuxd3v | userspace.. |
| 22:36.46 | MinceR | red hat happened to it |
| 22:36.52 | jonadab | Windows XP can only *theoretically* run in 98 MB of RAM. It's going to perform horrifically and swap to disk constantly. |
| 22:37.02 | MinceR | backdoors xp does that on any pc |
| 22:37.40 | tuxd3v | yeah backdoors, but even with backdoors which they also consume something of Ram.. |
| 22:37.49 | tuxd3v | 98Mb is a nice feat |
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| 22:38.45 | tuxd3v | Equinox seems nice but I would need to build it from sources as I don't find it in devuan :( |
| 22:39.04 | jonadab | And if you try to run Windows Ten in 98 MB of RAM... well. That just doesn't bear even thinking about, now does it? |
| 22:39.05 | tuxd3v | but its 100MB of Ram...starts to annoy me.. |
| 22:39.51 | tuxd3v | everyone knows the Ram consumption of Elightment? |
| 22:40.07 | fsmithred | tuxd3v, e17 is pretty low |
| 22:40.36 | fsmithred | icewm should be less than 100mb |
| 22:40.45 | tuxd3v | fsmithred, does you think it is lower than 100MB? |
| 22:40.56 | fsmithred | last time I checked (jessie or ascii) it was around 70-80 |
| 22:41.16 | tuxd3v | at the moment my fluxbox desktop test image is about 77MB, without a lot of things on it.. |
| 22:42.01 | tuxd3v | and I am starting to fear that once I hade more things is will go to around 100MB.. |
| 22:42.12 | tuxd3v | at that values Equinox is already a option |
| 22:42.30 | tuxd3v | if e17 can be low, it would be better |
| 22:42.40 | fsmithred | you know for sure how much equinox uses? |
| 22:42.57 | gnu_srs1 | tuxd3v: You also have wmaker, a lightweight WM, and other tools around it: wmaker-utils, wmake-data, wm* etc. |
| 22:43.47 | tuxd3v | I believe that Equinox should be around 100MB, for sure I don't know, I saw a reference onlin of 104MB, but I saw lots of duplicated apps installed so, maybe a lean base install could be less than it.. |
| 22:44.33 | gnu_srs1 | apt-cache search "wmaker"|grep wm |
| 22:44.56 | tuxd3v | gnu_srs1, but wmaker is a window maker only right? |
| 22:45.45 | tuxd3v | Equinox is a complete desktop environment, it even has calculator included( even tought I maintain 'bc' closest to my chest :) ) |
| 22:47.06 | tuxd3v | Enlightment is nice but I believe that is a lot slower cpus it will have some delay to respond, maybe I am wrong.. |
| 22:47.37 | MinceR | i've found enlightenment to be quite sluggish |
| 22:49.38 | gnu_srs1 | tuxd3v: Yes, wmaker is a Window Manager, but also has a lot of apps: like wmcalc, wmcdplay, wmbattery, wmnet, wmtop, etc |
| 22:51.39 | MinceR | fvwm also comes with a bunch of widgets, including panels |
| 22:52.31 | gnarface | e17 is a lot faster if you disable the compositor, unless you have really good drivers |
| 22:52.48 | qbmonkey | I am below 75mb after fresh boot and startx (evilwm). |
| 22:52.54 | gnarface | (video drivers, that is - i run e17 on my rpi, so i think that cpu speed thing is a red herring) |
| 22:53.15 | gnu_srs1 | wmaker even has a display manager: wdm - WINGs Display Manager - an xdm replacement with a WindowMaker look |
| 22:54.05 | gnu_srs1 | I have only used parts of the above before (as well as e17). |
| 22:54.16 | gnarface | if you leave the e17 compositor on and it has to fall back to software compositing because of no hardware opengl support in your video drivers, then cpu load will go way up doing trivial things like opening, moving, resizing or scrolling windows |
| 22:55.48 | gnarface | and even if you DO have good hardware opengl support, some mesa builds might still have software-rendering levels of performance if not paired with the right video driver, xorg and kernel versions (and related compile-time options) |
| 22:56.42 | gnarface | (nvidia drivers on the other hand tend to work nice and speedily but stability is hit&miss) |
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| 23:13.07 | tuxd3v | this doesn't have a easy answer.. a desktop witl 70-80MB and very responsive |
| 23:13.49 | tuxd3v | It will be used by boards with 1GB Ram, and we need to account with the browser which is the bigest concern.. |
| 23:14.54 | tuxd3v | but if we manage to have a 70-80MB desktop, we can control the browser to use some 600-700Mb of Ram |
| 23:15.51 | qbmonkey | What more specific was the question? |
| 23:16.50 | tuxd3v | qbmonkey, you use 75 mb on wich environments? |
| 23:16.53 | tuxd3v | on start |
| 23:17.02 | qbmonkey | No env. |
| 23:17.15 | tuxd3v | only console? |
| 23:17.21 | qbmonkey | terminal on boot, startx to get X |
| 23:17.35 | tuxd3v | on that I use ~35MB in armhf |
| 23:17.54 | qbmonkey | I can't get that low with Xorg running |
| 23:17.55 | tuxd3v | in armel, Ishould use for that around 17MB |
| 23:18.04 | qbmonkey | Some setups around 55 with X |
| 23:18.22 | tuxd3v | Yeah I mean with a X11 environment |
| 23:18.32 | qbmonkey | Once 45, but it was a very specific setup |
| 23:18.37 | tuxd3v | you use a window manager? |
| 23:18.40 | qbmonkey | YEs |
| 23:18.46 | qbmonkey | "Evilwm" |
| 23:19.08 | qbmonkey | no dbus |
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| 23:20.32 | qbmonkey | I like armel, but the boards I have don't crunch math well enough. |
| 23:21.44 | tuxd3v | hehehe true :) |
| 23:21.48 | tuxd3v | https://edeproject.org |
| 23:22.01 | qbmonkey | Always wanted a parallela but I don't have the time to make it work for my needs |
| 23:22.02 | tuxd3v | Equinox could provide more information about Ram usage.. |
| 23:22.49 | tuxd3v | yeah I dreamed with Paralela Board, but it took so many time to come to market that I don't know its status anymore |
| 23:23.03 | tuxd3v | I don't now its processing power.. |
| 23:24.03 | qbmonkey | It could be nice, but not out of the box. |
| 23:25.39 | qbmonkey | I like lite Env. like EDE. But clicking on thinks is slower for me. |
| 23:26.06 | qbmonkey | But I live on the terminal. |
| 23:26.27 | qbmonkey | *clicking on "things" |
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| 23:26.43 | qbmonkey | I like the mouse for resizing and cut paste. |
| 23:26.48 | tuxd3v | yeah we live there but sometimes we resurface to bump some tons of oxygen :) |
| 23:27.42 | tuxd3v | to be honest the mouse is the thing i doesn't like too much |
| 23:27.55 | tuxd3v | you need to get your hands out of the keyboard.. |
| 23:28.05 | qbmonkey | On a laptop with a nub is is okay. |
| 23:28.10 | qbmonkey | Like a thinkpad |
| 23:28.16 | tuxd3v | ho yeah |
| 23:28.24 | tuxd3v | that thing I already love :) |
| 23:29.07 | tuxd3v | Can't find EDE( Equinox ) packages to install and test... and the build script is broken :( |
| 23:29.16 | qbmonkey | I once set up a machine to use shortcuts for pointer movements. It was nice, once you got used to it. But sometimes it just was silly. |
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| 23:32.07 | qbmonkey | I don't CDE isn't in there either |
| 23:32.18 | qbmonkey | *don't think |
| 23:32.43 | qbmonkey | Oh man, typing on too many windows has its draw backs, lol |
| 23:39.58 | aaro | tuxd3v: that equinox looks quite nice actually, haven't heard about it before. At work we needed a low resource windos like environment and we went with trinity (tde), it takes around 200 MB after load (32 bits) |
| 23:41.11 | tuxd3v | yeah equinox( or shortly EDE ), seems very nice, but the compile script is broken :S |
| 23:41.22 | tuxd3v | And its not in deb packages availlable.. |
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| 23:42.49 | qbmonkey | Does KDE take more than 200mb these day? |
| 23:42.53 | qbmonkey | *days |
| 23:45.01 | qbmonkey | gnu_srs1, mentioned Window Maker. It is lite-ish. You have to build your own menu tree. But it has GUI tools for doing that in the configuration screen |
| 23:45.08 | qbmonkey | Its a little weird to work with. |
| 23:46.05 | aaro | if you mean plasma, i'm sure it does, never used it though |
| 23:46.26 | tuxd3v | Trinity is the smaller I think.. |
| 23:46.29 | tuxd3v | for kde |
| 23:46.46 | qbmonkey | heavens no, not plasma |
| 23:47.24 | aaro | trinity is to kde what mate would be to gnome (kinda) |
| 23:47.57 | qbmonkey | I was just thinking that back in my early linux days, KDE could be leaned down a bunch. Turn off the crap you didn't need, and it wasn't that bad. |
| 23:47.59 | tuxd3v | and the Lumina desktop, is some sort of trinity don't you guys think? |
| 23:48.15 | aaro | trinity forked from kde 3 iirc |
| 23:48.22 | qbmonkey | Is that on linux now, Lumina |
| 23:48.30 | qbmonkey | Was FBSD right? |
| 23:48.55 | tuxd3v | yeah lumina was, but I think they share a lot of roots, maybe I am wrong.. |
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| 23:48.59 | tuxd3v | probably :) |
| 23:49.26 | qbmonkey | Thats cool. It didn't look too bad either. |
| 23:50.22 | tuxd3v | but I bet both lumina and trinity goes way up from the ~100MB of Equinox |
| 23:50.57 | qbmonkey | Okay, how about setting up an Openbox desktop? |
| 23:51.16 | tuxd3v | I din't wanted to compile it from sources... as usually when we test something we trow it away after.. I don't really know .. I guess I will have to compile it :S |
| 23:51.20 | tuxd3v | by hand.. |
| 23:51.31 | qbmonkey | tuxd3v, when you mentioned your ram usage, did you mean just WM's ram usage? |
| 23:51.50 | tuxd3v | I mean desktop usage after a cold boot |
| 23:51.53 | qbmonkey | No, it should be in the repo "OpenBox" |
| 23:52.14 | tuxd3v | openbox yeas, but I am intrigued with Equinox.. |
| 23:52.49 | tuxd3v | life sucks for all of us, we are almost 90% of time searching for something new :D |
| 23:52.49 | qbmonkey | When you say Equinox, build script is broken, what did it do? |
| 23:53.04 | aaro | tuxd3v: umm it is found as a package in freebsd, nice |
| 23:53.14 | tuxd3v | if fails to get a source for it :( |
| 23:53.34 | qbmonkey | Is it in the repo? |
| 23:53.40 | qbmonkey | The source? |
| 23:53.42 | tuxd3v | I will paste output: |
| 23:55.22 | tuxd3v | https://paste2.org/8pcK4JIX |
| 23:55.32 | tuxd3v | because some urls are broken.. |
| 23:55.44 | tuxd3v | it breaks |
| 23:56.16 | tuxd3v | I will try to download 'jam-2.5-haiku-20080327.tar.gz' |
| 23:56.23 | tuxd3v | manually |
| 23:56.43 | tuxd3v | this seems to be from Aiku beos like.. :) |