| 00:03.29 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 00:13.00 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 00:22.23 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 00:33.13 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 00:45.15 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 00:48.30 | *** join/#devuan DonkeyHotei (vdJF@april-fools/2014/runnerup/danielg4) |
| 00:51.48 | *** join/#devuan aqu4bot (~aqu4bot@unaffiliated/subsen/bot/aqu4) |
| 01:22.22 | *** join/#devuan poontangmessiah (~poontangm@unaffiliated/poontangmessiah) |
| 03:21.58 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 03:22.44 | *** join/#devuan D-HUND (~debdog@2a00:79c0:62f:8c00:7a24:afff:fe8a:d04d) |
| 03:24.34 | *** join/#devuan furrywolf (~furrywolf@172.58.92.229) |
| 03:36.41 | tuxd3v | hello all, |
| 03:37.02 | tuxd3v | I compiled lima and panfrost drivers for sunxi hardware for arm64 |
| 03:37.18 | tuxd3v | If someone needs them, they are here: https://cld.pt/dl/download/28c65504-975c-4ad7-857c-6c9082808169/lima-panfrost-arm64.tar.xz?download=true |
| 03:37.42 | DonkeyHotei | wrong channel |
| 03:37.52 | *** join/#devuan Acacia (~Acacia@unaffiliated/acacia) |
| 03:38.11 | tuxd3v | you right |
| 03:51.06 | *** join/#devuan ar3itrary (~hacker@2a03:4000:6:8177:2::1) |
| 04:01.04 | *** join/#devuan Gnhugo (~yaaic@189.216.84.14) |
| 04:53.23 | *** join/#devuan m3tti_ (~m3tti@x2f30d9e.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 05:32.13 | *** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 06:02.10 | *** join/#devuan c0agen (~user@cpe-74-132-226-245.kya.res.rr.com) |
| 06:24.30 | *** join/#devuan Jjp137 (~Jjp137@cpe-75-83-16-81.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 06:27.41 | *** join/#devuan Acacia (~Acacia@unaffiliated/acacia) |
| 06:52.59 | *** join/#devuan engidea (~damiano@176.206.196.186) |
| 07:00.05 | *** join/#devuan proteus-guy (~proteus-l@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th) |
| 07:16.20 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 07:19.52 | *** join/#devuan mojoman (~androirc@2a03:8600:10fb:fb02::fb14) |
| 07:23.37 | *** join/#devuan retak (~ite@2a01:c22:d428:f900:f2de:f1ff:feb2:f9aa) |
| 07:30.40 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 07:34.43 | *** join/#devuan coagen (~coagen@unaffiliated/coagen) |
| 07:38.09 | *** join/#devuan coagen (~coagen@unaffiliated/coagen) |
| 07:46.44 | *** join/#devuan coagen_ (~coagen@unaffiliated/coagen) |
| 07:48.27 | *** join/#devuan coagen (~coagen@unaffiliated/coagen) |
| 07:49.49 | *** join/#devuan arnoldoree (~arnoldore@ranoldoree.plus.com) |
| 07:51.00 | *** join/#devuan magnus_k (~androirc@2a03:8600:10fb:fb02::fb14) |
| 07:53.48 | *** join/#devuan qbmonkey (~SockMonke@2600:6c46:4f80:1c00:20b:97ff:fe94:9aa2) |
| 07:57.19 | magnus_k | Hi all, I'm trying to set up devuan ascii on an Intel Nuc 8. Going to upgrade to Beowulf as soon as the base system + internet is working so only minimum install now. I can't get Ethernet to work, wired or wireless. I've set up a DVD image as local repo so I got basic packages available. The only device visible now is lo. Installed firmware-iwlwifi. Does anyone have some hints for me? Best regards. |
| 08:00.04 | magnus_k | I've tried moprobe iw13945 and iwl1496 that I've gahered are necessary but no device is detected. |
| 08:01.32 | magnus_k | lspci detects the hardware, Ethernet controller [0200] Intel [8086:15be] |
| 08:02.21 | magnus_k | But iwconfig lists only lo and iwconfig detects no wireless at all. |
| 08:03.21 | magnus_k | Can anyone help me out I'd appreciate it |
| 08:05.20 | *** join/#devuan qbmonkey (~SockMonke@2600:6c46:4f80:1c00:20b:97ff:fe94:9aa2) |
| 08:06.03 | rrq | try rfkill to begin with; might us it to turn on a powered off wifi |
| 08:07.17 | *** join/#devuan qbmonkey (~SockMonke@2600:6c46:4f80:1c00:20b:97ff:fe94:9aa2) |
| 08:08.06 | DonkeyHotei | magnus_k: what kernel version do you have? |
| 08:08.50 | magnus_k | Thanks, do you know what package does it comes with, command not found when I do rfkill --help |
| 08:10.39 | magnus_k | Nevermind, it was rfkill (duh) |
| 08:12.16 | DonkeyHotei | https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1785171/comments/32 |
| 08:13.26 | DonkeyHotei | magnus_k: ^ |
| 08:15.13 | magnus_k | Ok, but the Wired should still function? |
| 08:15.38 | magnus_k | Tried rfkill unblock all |
| 08:16.38 | magnus_k | Still only lo visible |
| 08:17.07 | DonkeyHotei | the wired has issues, as mentioned at that link |
| 08:18.04 | golinux | magnus_k: Do you need non-free firmware? |
| 08:18.36 | DonkeyHotei | and lspci should show a separate line for "Network controller" and "Ethernet controller" |
| 08:19.07 | magnus_k | I've got non-free firmware installed |
| 08:19.08 | DonkeyHotei | rfkill may hide the former |
| 08:20.15 | magnus_k | And I got two lines for Network and Ethernet |
| 08:21.44 | magnus_k | Firmware-misc-nonfree, firmware-iwlwifi, firware-realtek installed |
| 08:27.05 | DonkeyHotei | and what is the pci id for Network? |
| 08:29.12 | magnus_k | Network controller [0280] Intel corp Dev [8086:9df0] |
| 08:36.40 | magnus_k | Any chance an upgrade to Beowulf at this stage could help? I'm planning om running that anyway |
| 08:40.02 | emdete | magnus_k: check the syslog for failed firmware loads, the name is given and you can check with apt-file which package is needed |
| 08:40.31 | DonkeyHotei | kernel module for wifi is iwlwifi |
| 08:40.38 | emdete | magnus_k: upgrade will probably introduce a new kernel, that may be a chance as well |
| 08:41.00 | DonkeyHotei | and that pci id has been supported in iwlwifi since kernel 4.5 |
| 08:41.36 | DonkeyHotei | wired may be more difficult |
| 08:44.42 | magnus_k | I've got some unsupported modules |
| 08:46.16 | magnus_k | Though I cant see what package is needed |
| 08:47.31 | magnus_k | Any idea what to grep for in syslog? |
| 08:50.07 | *** join/#devuan coagen (~user@unaffiliated/coagen) |
| 08:53.56 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@85.98.23.152) |
| 08:56.04 | magnus_k | The iwl3945 and iwl4965 are loaded |
| 08:56.47 | magnus_k | Any other ideas? |
| 08:58.03 | magnus_k | If I want to give Beowulf a try, where can I get a DVD iso? I only found stable and oldstable on the download section |
| 09:01.09 | DonkeyHotei | iwl3945 and iwl4965 are irrelevant to your hardware |
| 09:01.53 | DonkeyHotei | don't load them |
| 09:02.29 | magnus_k | Ok, what modules are relevant? |
| 09:02.41 | DonkeyHotei | i already told you |
| 09:03.02 | DonkeyHotei | [Sat 2019-11-30 12:40:30 AM PST] <DonkeyHotei> kernel module for wifi is iwlwifi |
| 09:03.22 | DonkeyHotei | [Sat 2019-11-30 12:40:59 AM PST] <DonkeyHotei> and that pci id has been supported in iwlwifi since kernel 4.5 |
| 09:04.09 | magnus_k | I'm running 4.9.0-12 so kernel is good |
| 09:04.26 | DonkeyHotei | the module for wired is e1000e, but you need to compile it out-of-tree |
| 09:05.16 | DonkeyHotei | and you may need to boot Windows to get that to work |
| 09:05.49 | magnus_k | Ok, I'll leave the Wired untill I got a full system running |
| 09:07.34 | magnus_k | But module iwlwifi, should it not load on boot? |
| 09:08.03 | magnus_k | Both Wired and wireless work on Windows 10 |
| 09:08.49 | *** join/#devuan arnold_oree (~arnoldore@ranoldoree.plus.com) |
| 09:10.26 | magnus_k | The module iwlwifi is loaded but used by 0 |
| 09:12.33 | magnus_k | But module cfg80211 uses iwlwifi |
| 09:14.43 | *** join/#devuan sb35 (~sb35@184.75.210.58) |
| 09:23.21 | magnus_k | No more ideas on this, anyone? |
| 09:37.21 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 09:51.35 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 10:05.55 | *** join/#devuan rdav (~rdav@122-150-193-110.sta.dodo.net.au) |
| 10:12.28 | *** join/#devuan Deknos (~some@unaffiliated/menace) |
| 10:12.30 | *** part/#devuan Deknos (~some@unaffiliated/menace) |
| 10:12.37 | *** join/#devuan Dantalion (~Dantalion@217-120-205-175.cable.dynamic.v4.ziggo.nl) |
| 10:23.20 | *** join/#devuan joeytwiddle (~joeytwidd@162.243.115.31) |
| 11:21.20 | *** join/#devuan sb35 (~sb35@67.231.16.205) |
| 11:31.41 | *** join/#devuan user844842 (user@gateway/vpn/mullvad/user844842) |
| 12:23.53 | *** join/#devuan engidea (~damiano@176.206.196.186) |
| 12:39.31 | *** join/#devuan magnus_k (~androirc@2a03:8600:10fb:fb02::fb14) |
| 12:43.44 | magnus_k | Hi, all. I'm trying to get Devuan ascii going on an Intel Nuc 8 but internet isn't working. No devices exept lo is showing with ifconfig and iwconfig. |
| 12:44.29 | magnus_k | Network controller is [8086:9df0] and firmware is installed |
| 12:45.09 | magnus_k | Mod lwiwifi doesnt load at boot though |
| 12:46.02 | magnus_k | Modprobe works though. |
| 12:46.22 | magnus_k | Can anyone give me some help on this? |
| 12:47.21 | DonkeyHotei | does internet work after modprobe works? |
| 12:48.01 | magnus_k | Nope, but it loads cfg80212.ko and iwlwifi.ko |
| 12:48.19 | magnus_k | But Still only lo visible |
| 12:50.00 | magnus_k | Do I need to do anything else after modprobe to activate device? |
| 12:51.11 | DonkeyHotei | there are no errors in dmesg after the modprobe? |
| 12:53.28 | magnus_k | No errors for last 15 lines. Does say Intel "Wireless wifi driver for Linux" which is hopefull |
| 12:53.45 | magnus_k | But still no device visible |
| 12:54.41 | DonkeyHotei | nothing in ifconfig -a? |
| 12:55.11 | magnus_k | No, only lo |
| 12:55.38 | magnus_k | Which is weird, there is no Interface to configure |
| 12:55.52 | magnus_k | First time for me |
| 12:59.02 | magnus_k | ls /sys/class/net shows only lo too |
| 13:01.02 | DonkeyHotei | magnus_k: https://redd.it/am6z92 |
| 13:01.51 | magnus_k | Wait, /etc/Network/interfaces show only auto lo |
| 13:02.04 | magnus_k | Is this the problem? |
| 13:04.39 | magnus_k | DonkeyHotei: I already have the firmware installed |
| 13:06.04 | DonkeyHotei | if iwlwifi does not load at boot but lspci shows the wifi, something is wrong |
| 13:06.30 | magnus_k | Trying the other packages mentioned |
| 13:08.42 | magnus_k | Trying the last advice by stevepusser in the link you provided |
| 13:09.19 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:e9a6:ec66:a4e2:6daa) |
| 13:11.18 | magnus_k | Nope, still only lo after reboot and No iwlwifi loaded |
| 13:12.43 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@85.98.23.152) |
| 13:13.35 | magnus_k | DonkeyHotei: could it be that /etc/Network/interfaces needs to be edited, or is the lack of the devices there rather an effect of the problem? |
| 13:13.53 | DonkeyHotei | the latter |
| 13:14.08 | magnus_k | Suspected as much. |
| 13:17.00 | magnus_k | I'm thinking that my best option might be to try to get the wired to work instead, with module e1000e |
| 13:18.10 | DonkeyHotei | maybe |
| 13:19.29 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:e9a6:ec66:a4e2:6daa) |
| 13:19.44 | magnus_k | I tried to find a Beowulf DVD iso but couldn't, any idea where I can get one? |
| 13:21.28 | *** join/#devuan coagen_ (~user@cpe-74-132-226-245.kya.res.rr.com) |
| 13:26.48 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:e9a6:ec66:a4e2:6daa) |
| 13:26.56 | fsmithred | magnus_k, there aren't any beowulf isos yet except for some of the derivative distros. |
| 13:27.51 | fsmithred | also possible to do a beowulf debootstrap install from the ascii live isos |
| 13:28.20 | magnus_k | Hi fsmithred, mojoman here from the old forum ð |
| 13:28.47 | fsmithred | hi! |
| 13:29.02 | magnus_k | Long time, No see |
| 13:29.09 | fsmithred | yeah, welcome to devuan |
| 13:29.14 | magnus_k | Thanks! |
| 13:29.46 | fsmithred | do you have very new hardware? Is that the issue? |
| 13:30.21 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:e9a6:ec66:a4e2:6daa) |
| 13:30.24 | magnus_k | No, bought an Intel Nuc 8 i5 yesterday |
| 13:31.24 | magnus_k | The hardware should be supported as far as my research showed before I bought it |
| 13:31.58 | magnus_k | But only lo is visible with ifconfig |
| 13:32.47 | fsmithred | I made a desktop-live iso with backports kernel you could try |
| 13:32.55 | fsmithred | unofficial |
| 13:33.13 | magnus_k | Ok, why not ð |
| 13:33.19 | fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/ |
| 13:33.34 | fsmithred | https://get.refracta.org/files/experimental/unofficial_devuan_ascii_2.1_bpo_amd64-20191105_1512.iso |
| 13:34.00 | fsmithred | I don't know if the wireless firmware works with the bpo kernel |
| 13:34.19 | fsmithred | you might need to pull that from beowulf |
| 13:34.33 | fsmithred | (not sure if that would work, either) |
| 13:34.38 | magnus_k | Ok |
| 13:35.22 | magnus_k | But dont have a Beowulf iso to Mount as repo |
| 13:35.58 | fsmithred | for wireless firmware you could download the deb from debian |
| 13:36.21 | fsmithred | assuming you have some way to transfer the file |
| 13:36.37 | fsmithred | but try it like it is. It might work. |
| 13:36.50 | magnus_k | Yeah, I could use a stick |
| 13:37.24 | fsmithred | brb |
| 14:02.04 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:e9a6:ec66:a4e2:6daa) |
| 14:05.17 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:e9a6:ec66:a4e2:6daa) |
| 14:07.59 | *** join/#devuan Stacker (~stacker@gateway/tor-sasl/b616) |
| 14:14.35 | *** join/#devuan targz (~Thunderbi@unaffiliated/targz) |
| 14:35.40 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 14:36.15 | *** join/#devuan cd (~cd@unaffiliated/cd) |
| 14:49.11 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 14:52.20 | *** join/#devuan Infiltrator (~Infiltrat@unaffiliated/infiltrator) |
| 15:04.27 | *** join/#devuan Peregrinus__ (~peregrinu@195.181.173.201) |
| 15:22.07 | *** join/#devuan Defender1031 (~DeFender1@89-139-122-124.bb.netvision.net.il) |
| 15:32.50 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@85.98.23.152) |
| 15:48.59 | *** join/#devuan xrogaan (~xrogaan@unaffiliated/xrogaan) |
| 15:59.31 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@85.98.23.152) |
| 16:05.12 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:1589:f39a:af2d:3d40) |
| 16:05.51 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@85.98.23.152) |
| 16:06.30 | *** join/#devuan proteus-guy (~proteus-l@cm-58-10-208-146.revip7.asianet.co.th) |
| 16:26.52 | *** join/#devuan drmbls (~drmbls@78-63-188-55.static.zebra.lt) |
| 16:28.40 | *** join/#devuan drmbls1 (~marius@78-63-188-55.static.zebra.lt) |
| 16:33.20 | *** join/#devuan drmbls_ (~marius@78-63-188-55.static.zebra.lt) |
| 16:33.54 | *** join/#devuan drmbls (~marius@78-63-188-55.static.zebra.lt) |
| 16:35.29 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 16:38.37 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 16:46.29 | *** join/#devuan drmbls (~marius@78-63-188-55.static.zebra.lt) |
| 16:50.13 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 16:57.51 | *** join/#devuan fleeky (~fleeky@2601:241:8001:2e3a:5ccd:f9:70a7:7a40) |
| 17:01.08 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 17:06.50 | *** join/#devuan sunshavi (~user@190.239.244.220) |
| 17:13.56 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 17:24.36 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 17:39.25 | *** join/#devuan hplar (~ralph@unable-to-package.org) |
| 17:42.59 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 18:04.34 | *** join/#devuan Acacia (~Acacia@unaffiliated/acacia) |
| 18:10.07 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 18:20.39 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 18:25.39 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e0a:4e1:97e0:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 18:31.16 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 18:45.39 | *** join/#devuan m3tti (~m3tti@x2f30d9e.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 18:47.22 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 18:51.32 | *** join/#devuan qbmonkey (~SockMonke@047-012-156-130.res.spectrum.com) |
| 18:59.55 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 19:03.19 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 19:05.12 | *** join/#devuan Peregrinus_ (~peregrinu@195.181.173.201) |
| 19:12.33 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 19:23.17 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 19:28.13 | *** part/#devuan minnesotags2 (~herbgarci@c-24-118-22-254.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 19:42.18 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 19:42.47 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@85.98.23.152) |
| 19:50.51 | *** join/#devuan doctorbeans (~igloo@45.41.138.57) |
| 19:54.12 | *** join/#devuan Leander (~Leander@132.147.84.158) |
| 19:58.59 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 20:07.47 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@devuan/community/Xenguy) |
| 20:08.21 | *** join/#devuan gekketinus (~gekketinu@2001:1c06:17ca:7000:2c64:d71a:ca:e7b0) |
| 20:09.24 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 20:23.23 | jaromil | https://linux.slashdot.org/story/19/11/30/0538211/the-file-varlibdbusmachine-id-matters-for-your-privacy-and-devuan-fixed-it |
| 20:23.33 | jaromil | about the machine-id patch in ASCII 2.1 |
| 20:25.58 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.237.240.124) |
| 20:28.08 | buZz | :) |
| 20:30.25 | *** join/#devuan engidea (~damiano@ip-46-141-11-154.rev.wolnext.com) |
| 20:34.49 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@x53.octopuce.fr) |
| 20:34.50 | *** join/#devuan superkuh (~superkuh@unaffiliated/superkuh) |
| 20:41.54 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc31:b700:a4ed:7f40:1a19:7818) |
| 20:46.09 | *** join/#devuan sunshavi (~user@190.239.244.220) |
| 20:49.08 | *** join/#devuan arnoldoree (~arnoldore@ranoldoree.plus.com) |
| 20:52.01 | *** join/#devuan fatalerrors (~fatalerro@91.224.149.180) |
| 20:55.43 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 20:56.19 | *** join/#devuan Soo_Slow (Soo_Slow@gateway/vpn/privateinternetaccess/sooslow/x-31376162) |
| 21:01.07 | *** join/#devuan Leander (~Leander@132.147.84.158) |
| 21:15.46 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 21:28.29 | xrogaan | yeah, found out that sublimeText relies on the machine-id to validate your copy. |
| 21:29.08 | xrogaan | The fix is to put your license file in read only mode, and not allow sublimetext to change it with the nonsense generated with machineid |
| 21:29.20 | xrogaan | I bought the copy already, fuck off with your verification. |
| 21:34.32 | specing | Don't use closed source software and you wont have these problems |
| 21:38.32 | xrogaan | opensource alternatives are kind of shit though |
| 21:39.28 | Hum | Do you need some programs for the weekend? https://github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term (see animated gifs) compiles with Devuan and a colorful text browser: https://www.brow.sh/ |
| 21:47.16 | specing | xrogaan: for me as a programmer, closed source is an insult. Therefore everything not open is automatically inferior |
| 21:47.46 | specing | It confuses me as to why people with a view similar to mine are so rare |
| 21:54.51 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 21:59.25 | *** join/#devuan georg-gast-1 (~georg@nebka.physik.tu-chemnitz.de) |
| 22:07.39 | DonkeyHotei | specing: all software is shit |
| 22:07.49 | specing | Not true |
| 22:11.52 | xrogaan | Because I favor usability. |
| 22:15.18 | sixwheeledbeast | hardware and software are both tools. Use the correct tools for the correct jobs and all is right with the world. |
| 22:20.23 | qbmonkey | Open Code becomes more important via an internet culture. But it is becoming less relevant, in some ways, due to protected hardware layers. Then open code is only good for the sharing of functionality. But it will no longer respect the user. And the reason no one is doing anything about it, is because our power demands are too high. A more open hardware culture could be promoted, if people would write code to respect computer |
| 22:20.23 | qbmonkey | resources. But that is hardly ever an industry consideration. And the open code culture is very much driven by industry. Thats why we accepted such high use of things like bloated JS. |
| 22:33.24 | xrogaan | Also opensource is different than free and open. |
| 22:58.21 | qbmonkey | Yes there is a difference. Free doesn't account for much. But with, at least, open you can decide if you even want to use it. The opensource ideals are more useful to industry. And open code is useful to a user that can use it. The difference comes into play when you involve money and a lessor degree to sharing. |
| 23:24.19 | pav5088 | :) "usability" without regard to openness will see you bent over eventually... |
| 23:29.46 | pav5088 | Closed hardware just means we're all limited to the inhouse driver expertise of our hardware vendors of choice, not to mention security. It's depressing. |
| 23:32.59 | *** join/#devuan fatalerrors (~fatalerro@91.224.149.180) |
| 23:45.03 | qbmonkey | Very depressing. Security, DRM, and vendor lockin. Developing on those systems over the long term, gets you building on a card house. |
| 23:46.08 | *** join/#devuan nckx (~nckx@tobias.gr) |
| 23:46.11 | qbmonkey | Not a big issue, for everyone, but I think we are losing "real mode" soon. |
| 23:46.47 | qbmonkey | Not much of a loss for Linux/BSD/Win/Mac |
| 23:47.57 | MinceR | dosbox still has real mode :> |