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| 04:52.49 | xrogaan | golinux: your email client may be faulty. |
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| 06:06.37 | bernyrd | hi does devuan have reproducible builds |
| 06:08.09 | xrogaan | what does that mean? |
| 06:08.32 | bernyrd | https://wiki.debian.org/ReproducibleBuilds/About |
| 06:08.51 | bernyrd | >Allow independent verifications that a binary matches what the source intended to produce. |
| 06:10.27 | onefang | It can be tricky getting the binaries to be identical for each build from the same source code. |
| 06:10.51 | onefang | has done this sort of thing professionally. Coz government audit labs. |
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| 07:30.51 | gnarface | bernyrd: the packages in devuan mostly ARE the ones in debian. |
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| 07:44.10 | agris | with special old people sauce |
| 07:45.56 | MinceR | but is it made from real special old people? |
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| 07:46.46 | onefang | Only the ones with properly grey beards. |
| 07:46.47 | agris | yes. with only the sharpest cleanest blenders used |
| 07:47.07 | agris | >grey beards. |
| 07:47.49 | MinceR | :) |
| 07:48.01 | agris | Yes, grey beards are a requirement. sandles, khakis, and beep bellies too |
| 07:48.22 | agris | but not without lanyards |
| 07:49.16 | agris | *beer |
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| 08:16.20 | agris | how many lanyards you got onefang ? |
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| 10:01.26 | yeti | https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-06-24 --> #debianfork ? |
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| 10:32.38 | xkr47 | ^^ |
| 10:32.58 | xkr47 | do fake grey beards count? :D |
| 10:33.50 | onefang | You'll grow into it. |
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| 10:34.07 | xkr47 | In Soviet Russia, it'll grow into you |
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| 12:03.46 | bernyrd | gnarface: that's pretty yeet to know |
| 12:04.31 | gnarface | bernyrd: i don't really know what that means |
| 12:05.04 | gnarface | bernyrd: i thought i remembered someone saying that the devuan-forked packages were all reproducible builds but i'm not sure |
| 12:05.09 | bernyrd | don't worry my yeetness |
| 12:05.23 | bernyrd | I thought that may be the case, but wasn't sure |
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| 15:32.42 | avbox14 | FYI, there is a new AVMultimedia release (inkl. doc for intel compute stick as open source tv station). All infos you find under: http://archivista.ch/cms/en/support-2/avmultimedia-2/ |
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| 20:37.33 | jonadab | Why would atop say that init is using 50% disk access? |
| 20:37.42 | jonadab | For _days on end_? |
| 20:38.09 | jonadab | jbd2/sda3-8 is also implicated. sda3 is the root fs |
| 20:38.40 | jonadab | This is on a recent install. Started pretty much immediately after install, which was Monday. Never stops. |
| 20:38.57 | jonadab | It _sounds_ like the system is swapping virtual memory to and from disk constantly, but free says no. |
| 20:39.20 | jonadab | No swap space is being used. There's still free physical memory. |
| 20:40.29 | DonkeyHotei | what does iotop say? |
| 20:40.50 | DonkeyHotei | oh, you used atop, nvm |
| 20:41.29 | DonkeyHotei | take a look at what threads use virt |
| 20:42.29 | jonadab | checks iotop |
| 20:42.47 | jonadab | _installs_ iotop, then checks it. |
| 20:43.42 | jonadab | iotop does not appear to be aware that any disk activity is happening. |
| 20:44.02 | FleaFart | htop |
| 20:44.56 | jonadab | htop has options to sort by CPU, memory, or time. Don't see an option to sort by disk activity there. |
| 20:45.31 | FleaFart | I get that, but sometimes it gives me a hint. |
| 20:45.51 | jonadab | Top memory user is irssi. |
| 20:45.57 | jonadab | At 0.4% |
| 20:48.15 | jonadab | Top cpu user is htop, followed by screen (irssi is running in screen), followed by sshd (it's a headless system), followed by init [2] |
| 20:48.29 | jonadab | htop is at 0.7% cpu. |
| 20:49.51 | rrq | maybe "vmstat" gives soemthing (else) |
| 20:51.08 | jonadab | vmstat says swpd is 0 |
| 20:51.19 | jonadab | which matches what free says |
| 20:51.35 | jonadab | Also, swapoff -a does not change anything. |
| 20:51.54 | jonadab | It's not swapping, that's just what the physical noise coming from the drive _sounds_ like. |
| 20:52.26 | jonadab | This is ascii btw |
| 20:52.59 | jonadab | If I wanted the init system to access the disk all the time, I could install one of the poetteringed distros. |
| 20:56.03 | FleaFart | is it possible that the hard drive has issues? |
| 20:56.36 | FleaFart | or is this software related. |
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| 21:00.40 | jonadab | Well, the drive is new, but I can't absolutely rule out hardware issues. |
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| 21:19.18 | FleaFart | I am just guessing to try to inspire brianstorming; may I ask is this a new install? I have no Idea, but a script/program that may be conflicting with devuan would create a noise like swapping (example something that won't stop till it gets something from systemd, and doesn't know that it is in a endless loop) totally guessing. |
| 21:21.11 | FleaFart | I did notice some drive noise when I first installed, but after I apt updated; apt upgraded, it was gone. |
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| 21:21.35 | MinceR | afaik nuclear is already more expensive than solar and wind |
| 21:22.46 | MinceR | oops, wrong window |
| 21:23.06 | FleaFart | thats why I lead ya here |
| 21:23.08 | FleaFart | LOL |
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| 21:38.28 | gnarface | jonadab: how are you sure it's not something irssi is doing? |
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| 21:43.01 | FleaFart | I noticed some interesting links in the intro to the #irssi description ; but not sure it is applies. |
| 22:05.14 | jonadab | gnarface: Relatively? I guess I could test that by exiting it for a bit. |
| 22:05.22 | jonadab | Probably should, just to rule it out. |
| 22:05.39 | jonadab | I mean, irssi keeps logs, obviously. But that shouldn't cause anything like the level of usage I'm experiencing. |
| 22:05.57 | jonadab | FleaFart: Yes, it's a new install, as of, umm, Monday, IIRC. |
| 22:06.08 | gnarface | i admit it would seem that something must have gone terribly wrong, but also it is the only thing all your evidence points to |
| 22:06.22 | jonadab | But it's had apt-get update and apt-get dist-upgrade since install. |
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| 22:06.47 | jonadab | gnarface: That doesn't explain why atop thinks init is responsible, though. |
| 22:07.02 | jonadab | That's a really odd piece of evidence that I don't know what to do with. |
| 22:07.07 | gnarface | jonadab: i thought you said it was the screen instance that contained irssi? |
| 22:07.20 | jonadab | irssi is running inside of screen, yes. |
| 22:07.34 | gnarface | if it is actually init, i would expect something is... initing alot |
| 22:07.47 | gnarface | got any programs stuck in a restart loop maybe? |
| 22:08.08 | jonadab | Hmm, there's a thought. |
| 22:08.15 | jonadab | Not that I _know_ of, but... |
| 22:08.19 | jonadab | Maybe I should do a reboot. |
| 22:08.34 | gnarface | you said you had no swap, too, right? so if you have no swap, and you're using all the ram you're gonna see weird out-of-memory behaviors (like stuff that logs needing to flush logs to disk more often) |
| 22:08.50 | jonadab | Hang on, I'm gonna quit irssi temporarily just to verify it's not the problem. Pretty sure it's not, but I'm gonna just _verify_ that. |
| 22:09.04 | jonadab | I have swap enabled, but if I turn it off, makes no difference. |
| 22:09.07 | jonadab | It's a swap partition. |
| 22:09.20 | jonadab | 16GB, all unused. |
| 22:09.22 | gnarface | if you run "iotop -a" then you should see something accumulating reads or writes, if this is actually disk traffic |
| 22:10.28 | jonadab | Hmm, iotop -a shows to main things doing disk activity: kworker/0:1 and jbd2/sda3-8 |
| 22:11.12 | jonadab | quits irssi temporarily. bfb |
| 22:11.14 | jonadab | *brb |
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| 22:12.43 | jonadab | is back; quitting irssi changed nothing at all, as expected. |
| 22:13.32 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 22:13.40 | gnarface | jonadab: raid array by any chance? |
| 22:13.49 | jonadab | No. |
| 22:14.19 | jonadab | And I haven't set up over-the-network backups yet, because the install is so new I was still getting things installed. |
| 22:14.29 | jonadab | Hadn't even got Bitlbee fully operational yet. |
| 22:14.43 | gnarface | jonadab: in some configurations ext4 is set up to lazy-format the rest of the disk's empty space after install, which would cause behavior like this (a few days of ghost disk activity that is difficult to diagnose but goes away eventually) but mostly i thought that's something only people installing to RAID were seeing happening as a default setting |
| 22:15.04 | jonadab | Hmm. |
| 22:15.14 | jonadab | THat WOULD explain what I'm seeing. |
| 22:15.37 | jonadab | Especially as it would be happening presumably in kernel space, which would explain why top and friends can't pin it down. |
| 22:15.58 | jonadab | How long would this normally be expected to take for a 2TB SATA disk? |
| 22:16.08 | jonadab | (Approximately) |
| 22:16.15 | gnarface | like days or weeks |
| 22:16.31 | gnarface | you'd know, because at install time it didn't take several hours to finish formatting |
| 22:16.36 | jonadab | Ok, this has been since some time Monday, which is well within that range. |
| 22:16.41 | jonadab | Hmm. |
| 22:16.45 | jonadab | That sounds rather plausible. |
| 22:16.48 | jonadab | Actually. |
| 22:16.54 | jonadab | Install went... fairly quickly. |
| 22:17.09 | jonadab | If that's what it is, then I can just wait and it'll finish. |
| 22:17.12 | jonadab | Eventually. |
| 22:17.26 | jonadab | Is there a way to _check_ whether this is the case? |
| 22:17.28 | gnarface | if you ext4 formatted a 2TB disk and it finished in "seconds" (like less than several hundred seconds) it's impossible that it finished formatting for real. so this could be your issue. |
| 22:17.48 | jonadab | I don't remember how long the format took. |
| 22:17.50 | gnarface | iirc that would be minimum half an hour, but more likely more like ... i dunno 3 or 4 hours? |
| 22:17.56 | specing | jonadab: use btrfs |
| 22:18.01 | jonadab | Wasn't really timing it. (I was doing multiple things...) |
| 22:18.11 | gnarface | definitely not "seconds" like other filesystems (xfs, reiserfs, btrfs?) |
| 22:18.15 | jonadab | It wasn't 3-4 hours though. Definitely wasn't that long. |
| 22:18.33 | jonadab | I'd have noticed. |
| 22:18.50 | gnarface | jonadab: i forget how they were seeing that... i thought there was some process with extsomething in the name |
| 22:18.53 | jonadab | I don't suppose tune2fs or somesuch can tell me? |
| 22:19.01 | gnarface | something CAN tell you i just forget what, sorry |
| 22:19.22 | gnarface | a mount option, a stray process... maybe something in dmesg |
| 22:19.26 | jonadab | Hmm, ps -A | grep ext shows two processes called ext4-rsv-conver |
| 22:19.32 | jonadab | (That may be truncated) |
| 22:22.49 | gnarface | keyboard batteries, amirite? |
| 22:22.54 | gnarface | (sorry about the delayed response) |
| 22:23.36 | gnarface | jonadab: i don't have that process anywhere on my systems. most of them are NOT running ext4 but it also doesn't even look familiar, and it matches the pattern of the process name in my dim recollection as starting with the prefix "ext4-" |
| 22:23.57 | gnarface | jonadab: so i'd say that's your prime suspect right now |
| 22:24.03 | jonadab | Yeah, this is starting to feel like a really plausible explanation. |
| 22:24.47 | gnarface | a 2TB disk drive formatted fully with ext4 would have taken somewhere approximating the same time it takes to fat32 format a drive without the quick-format option |
| 22:25.27 | gnarface | so if it didn't take long enough for you to get annoyed at how long it was taking to format, if it didn't even take long enough for you to notice... then it didn't really format it |
| 22:25.45 | jonadab | Makes sense. |
| 22:26.42 | gnarface | several other filesystems available don't behave this way. i'm told it has something to do with them being journaling filesystems from the ground-up, while ext3 and ext4 are basically just ext2 with a journaling layer bolted onto the side |
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