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| 00:45.59 | TwoTaIl | no systemd for me |
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| 00:49.25 | TwoTaIl | If this is the distro like slackware that doesn't have systemd I would be interested in installing it on a ASUS X551 , is there a way to see if my laptop is compatable before I download? |
| 00:52.06 | gnarface | TwoTaIl: sure, get one of the live images and try that first |
| 00:52.19 | gnarface | https://files.roundr.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/desktop-live/ |
| 00:52.33 | TwoTaIl | perfect, thanks |
| 00:52.55 | gnarface | though, hope is not all lost if that doesn't work. sometimes the difference for newer hardware working or not working is just adding the backports kernel |
| 00:53.10 | TwoTaIl | I just wanted to make sure that this fork didn't use systemd.. that is my only concern actually |
| 00:53.15 | gnarface | this is a pretty slow channel but if you are patient someone will help you eventually with any issues |
| 00:53.35 | gnarface | this fork ONLY exists to prevent the use of systemd. you're safe. |
| 00:53.58 | TwoTaIl | so I finally found my home |
| 00:54.13 | gnarface | ascii will have some residual systemd cruft in it, but it is safely ignored. |
| 00:54.27 | gnarface | the daemon itself is not present |
| 00:54.34 | gnarface | just some vestigial runtime libraries and config directories |
| 00:54.53 | gnarface | and i think the stock udev daemon is annoyingly named "systemd-udevd" < don't panic if you see that |
| 00:55.44 | gnarface | they're working on making beowulf better |
| 00:56.01 | golinux | TwoTaIl: Some history: https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ |
| 00:58.18 | golinux | http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=120652 |
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| 01:08.34 | TwoTaIl | Ok, I will bookmark all that and read it as I don't really know what all of this is, but if it is against the big five and microsoft owned github I am on board. |
| 01:09.22 | TwoTaIl | I am hoping for a fork of github-nosystemd |
| 01:10.01 | gnarface | the project is on a private gitlab, not hosted at github |
| 01:10.19 | gnarface | for whatever that's worth |
| 01:10.27 | gnarface | they don't trust it either, around here |
| 01:10.50 | gnarface | and i don't think the microsoft buyout impacted that situation significantly in either direction |
| 01:13.05 | TwoTaIl | I believe is isn't about buying it about killing linux, so they own it all. And if the linux sysadmins and coders get on board, I believe they are creating the means to their own end. So I am going to look for a non-systemd os and just enjoy some game of pacman |
| 01:14.03 | gnarface | nobody here will question your judgment on that |
| 01:14.06 | TwoTaIl | Anyway, I am glad your here |
| 01:14.37 | gnarface | there is also #debianfork, a devuan channel dedicated to ranting about it |
| 01:14.52 | gnarface | feel free to vent in there whenever it takes your fancy |
| 01:15.12 | gnarface | (lots of us are in both channels) |
| 01:15.50 | gnarface | they try to keep this channel clear for support issues, but there is plenty of conversation to be had about the philosophical ones |
| 01:16.18 | TwoTaIl | ok about the gitlab,,, where are you again? I am there but not seeing devuan |
| 01:16.34 | gnarface | git.devuan.org |
| 01:16.51 | gnarface | here^ ? |
| 01:17.03 | mason | TwoTaIl: Should run. I have an X551M. |
| 01:17.11 | mason | reading back |
| 01:17.26 | gnarface | mason: did you need the ascii-backports kernel? |
| 01:17.38 | mason | gnarface: It's not a new system. Should be fine with ASCII. |
| 01:17.44 | gnarface | cool |
| 01:17.51 | mason | gnarface: Let me double check. It's right here. |
| 01:19.20 | gnarface | TwoTaIl: this is the place you're looking, right? git.devuan.org |
| 01:20.46 | mason | Yeah, it'll boot fine. I've evidently not upgraded it, and it's happy with 4.9.0-9. |
| 01:23.34 | mason | TwoTaIl, gnarface: https://bpaste.net/show/vBs2 |
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| 01:28.54 | TwoTaIl | [ 0.000000] ACPI BIOS Warning (bug): 32/64X length mismatch in FADT/Gpe0Block: 128/32 (20160831/tbfadt-603) |
| 01:29.53 | TwoTaIl | I don't know anything, having even downloaded it yet, but I would check your bios to make sure that it hasn't changed. |
| 01:30.43 | TwoTaIl | I would assume that RAID somehow got enabled or security or something. |
| 01:31.16 | mason | I haven't ever updated that box's firmware. I treat it as a cosmetic warning. |
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| 01:43.14 | TwoTaIl | hello, I looked for the install instructions here https://git.devuan.org/dev1fanboy/Upgrade-Install-Devuan/blob/master/devuan-install.md but pages are either locked or slow for me |
| 01:44.31 | TwoTaIl | I am on a 18.04.3 Ubnuntu when a memory stick with two partitions 20gh=b and 60 gb and I have downloaded the ISO, |
| 01:45.19 | TwoTaIl | I am trying to make a live usb to take a look, |
| 01:45.21 | golinux | There are links on the download page of the website's download pahe |
| 01:45.23 | TwoTaIl | anyone free |
| 01:45.41 | TwoTaIl | ok brb |
| 01:45.42 | golinux | Let me get it for you |
| 01:45.52 | TwoTaIl | ok even better |
| 01:46.09 | golinux | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/live-gui.html |
| 01:46.21 | golinux | That is for the -live isos |
| 01:46.24 | fsmithred | which iso did you download? |
| 01:46.55 | golinux | (my next question) |
| 01:47.29 | golinux | fsmithred: Are we ever going to do a guide for the cli install? |
| 01:47.45 | fsmithred | maybe |
| 01:47.49 | fsmithred | I forgot all about that |
| 01:47.58 | golinux | For Beowulf? |
| 01:48.01 | mason | golinux: Do you mean the tradition debian-installer character-based install? |
| 01:48.05 | fsmithred | I'll do it next time I'm testing the installer |
| 01:48.09 | fsmithred | yes, for beowulf |
| 01:48.16 | golinux | We already have that, mason |
| 01:48.18 | fsmithred | no, she's talking about refractainstaller |
| 01:48.24 | mason | oh, oh |
| 01:48.24 | fsmithred | the cli version |
| 01:48.35 | fsmithred | you might even like that installer - it's retro |
| 01:48.37 | mason | Was going to say, I'm working on debootstrap-based install scripting right now. |
| 01:48.52 | golinux | mason; Have a look: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/ |
| 01:49.03 | mason | 404 |
| 01:49.09 | golinux | I'm pretty syre there is already a debootstrap |
| 01:49.21 | fsmithred | there is, but it's all manual |
| 01:49.27 | mason | golinux: Not likely one that automates setting up mirrored, encrypted ZFS root. =cough= |
| 01:49.29 | fsmithred | d-i uses debootstrap |
| 01:49.35 | golinux | Let me check |
| 01:50.13 | fsmithred | mason, is it a shell script? |
| 01:50.15 | golinux | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/install-guides/start-here.html |
| 01:50.23 | mason | fsmithred: Yes. |
| 01:50.27 | golinux | Navigation is at the bottom |
| 01:50.39 | fsmithred | :) |
| 01:50.45 | mason | fsmithred: It's kind of funny. It's a shell script you run from a live environment, and it crafts a shell script that it pops into a chroot environment to finish the install. |
| 01:50.47 | onefang | I wrote a debootstrap script for installing ASCII on my desktop and server, and I intended to document it, but I got too busy with other stuff. |
| 01:50.56 | onefang | No ZFS though. |
| 01:51.10 | mason | fsmithred: I wrote it for Ubuntu, and I'm porting it to ASCII and soon Beowulf now. |
| 01:51.30 | mason | s/ now// as that's redundant and even a bit conflicting. |
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| 01:51.42 | fsmithred | live-sdk runs some chroot scripts |
| 01:52.12 | mason | I'll share it once it's done and tested and if there are ways it could be useful, maybe we can press it into service somehow. |
| 01:52.20 | golinux | mason: It is a chroot not debootstrap https://git.devuan.org/devuan-doc/documentation/tree/master/dev1fanboy |
| 01:52.55 | mason | golinux: It's both. Useful tools. |
| 01:53.07 | fsmithred | yeah, the normal way is to start with debootstrap to get a very bare system, then chroot into it to dress it up a bit |
| 01:53.27 | mason | Mm, you still have to set a hostname, locales, etc. |
| 01:53.32 | mason | populate sources.list |
| 01:53.38 | fsmithred | root password! |
| 01:53.42 | mason | And that. |
| 01:53.43 | fsmithred | fun if you forget that |
| 01:53.52 | onefang | My script does most of that. |
| 01:53.54 | mason | init=/bin/sh! |
| 01:54.04 | fsmithred | I can tell you what not to do with your script |
| 01:54.12 | mason | onefang: Let's trade after this is done. We can glean bits from each other. |
| 01:54.19 | mason | fsmithred: Let it rot for years? |
| 01:54.24 | mason | Because that's where I am now. |
| 01:54.25 | onefang | lol |
| 01:54.48 | fsmithred | don't try to run synaptic from the chroot - it's possible, but it'll cost around 500mb in your live system |
| 01:54.53 | mason | hah |
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| 01:55.12 | fsmithred | I tried it recently using xserver-xephyr |
| 01:55.24 | fsmithred | hm |
| 01:55.47 | fsmithred | maybe I didn't try hard enough - I use icewm, but there might be a way to run just synaptic |
| 01:55.57 | fsmithred | pretty sure I've done that wiht a web browser |
| 01:56.21 | golinux | grumbles and gets back to resizing the openrc screenshot It's taken a really long time to maintain font and window size and footer location while reducing the size. |
| 01:57.18 | fsmithred | I don't understand why the screenshots are not the same size as the old ones |
| 01:57.22 | mason | fsmithred: Launch synaptic as your window manager. |
| 01:57.23 | inklr | someone please make compositing transparent to root window, not to underlying window |
| 01:57.38 | golinux | Sorry the end of that got garbled. It been an exercise in overlays and stitching parts together |
| 01:57.41 | fsmithred | inklr, go for it! |
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| 01:57.55 | inklr | fsmithred: something i've been wanting a long time (10+ yrs) |
| 01:58.18 | inklr | there's too much to learn |
| 01:58.46 | golinux | If not you . . . who? |
| 01:58.51 | fsmithred | you want the transparency to show the desktop background instead of the windows behind the one on top? |
| 01:58.58 | inklr | golinux: someone qualified to do it |
| 01:59.11 | inklr | so i just point to the obvious and say 'see?' |
| 01:59.20 | golinux | We were all unqualified at some point |
| 01:59.45 | inklr | Keith Packard is ignoring me |
| 01:59.49 | TwoTaIl | I downloaded devuan ascii 2 amd64 ... but this is an INTEL motherboard. so am I out of luck? |
| 02:00.00 | golinux | Cosmetics are low on the wishlist |
| 02:00.19 | fsmithred | no TwoTaIl, intel stole enough that it'll work |
| 02:00.26 | fsmithred | j/k |
| 02:00.27 | golinux | LOL! |
| 02:00.42 | gnarface | i mean, that's basically it |
| 02:00.44 | onefang | AMD64 will work fine on Intel 64 bit CPUs. |
| 02:00.45 | fsmithred | it's named that because amd64 was the first x86 in 64-bit |
| 02:01.22 | inklr | golinux: do you know why desktop environments stopped using root window and started overlaying their own titlebarless window on top of it for the 'desktop'? |
| 02:01.33 | TwoTaIl | ok, so I have the right iso... |
| 02:01.58 | fsmithred | netinstall, CD or DVD will give you the debian-installer (it's devuanized) |
| 02:02.04 | inklr | so if you run some nice mellow xscreensaver or rss-glx in 'root' window, you won't see it |
| 02:02.13 | fsmithred | live isos use refractainstaller |
| 02:03.05 | fsmithred | I don't know what you mean by root window |
| 02:03.13 | mason | fsmithred: The X root. The background. |
| 02:03.22 | mason | You can treat it like a regular window for targeting things. |
| 02:03.54 | mason | For instance, I set my background with: xv -root -quit -maxpect /home/mason/Pictures/middle-earth.jpg |
| 02:04.03 | fsmithred | so if I understand correctly, inklr can have what he/she wants in xfce |
| 02:04.07 | fsmithred | in jessie |
| 02:04.08 | mason | If I didn't say -root there I'd get a new, random window. |
| 02:04.13 | gnarface | i assume that goes away with compositors. i assume that's also why the transparency thing changed, too. |
| 02:04.25 | inklr | in xfce you need to kill the desktop process because it also overlays root window |
| 02:04.44 | inklr | iirc the KDE folks started it |
| 02:05.58 | inklr | anyway sorry for OT - if anyone is curious about this, i have some initial work done for it in 'compton' compositor |
| 02:06.23 | inklr | i'll try to get my motor motivated fsmithred |
| 02:06.31 | fsmithred | cool |
| 02:07.05 | fsmithred | share it on the forum and you might generate interest from someone who can help |
| 02:07.13 | inklr | kj |
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| 02:07.35 | fsmithred | share it on dng mailing list and most will say, "What's a desktop?" |
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| 02:10.18 | onefang | A desktop is that bit of furniture I put my computers on top of. B-) |
| 02:10.37 | inklr | xfce is too heavy and slow for me |
| 02:10.37 | fsmithred | see what I mean? |
| 02:11.19 | golinux | And those who do have desktops aren't much onto bells and whistles |
| 02:11.43 | fsmithred | we have our share of kde and cinnamon users |
| 02:11.58 | mason | fsmithred, onefang: Work in progress. Makes many bad assumptions, including that we have the right kmod compiled. But to show the general idea... https://bpaste.net/show/fVLv |
| 02:12.06 | onefang | I prefer beeps and ticks over bells and whistles. |
| 02:12.55 | golinux | Silence rules! |
| 02:18.08 | fsmithred | mason, quick look says it's good. |
| 02:19.01 | fsmithred | I could steal the first half and run it with refractainstaller |
| 02:19.09 | onefang | I'm going through mine, making sure I didn't leave any passwords and stuff laying around. |
| 02:19.37 | mason | fsmithred: I'll provide a more complete version after testing and polishing. |
| 02:20.02 | fsmithred | yeah, I can't play with it now anyway |
| 02:20.02 | mason | fsmithred: But I don't want to get stuck in the trap where a mood swing kills my efforts and I haven't shared anything, so I'll default to sharing early. |
| 02:20.56 | fsmithred | I'll be home in a couple weeks and I have disposable systems to play with |
| 02:21.38 | fsmithred | this needs a special kernel? |
| 02:22.48 | mason | fsmithred: Well, hidden bits include my having built the right zfs kmod for the kernel I know to be there. |
| 02:23.05 | mason | fsmithred: Ideally we'd have a range of kmods available, and/or do something more intelligent with matching. |
| 02:23.37 | mason | It also assumes that I have an elilo binary stashed away, although I could be forced to use GRUB under duress. |
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| 02:31.59 | onefang | https://sledjhamr.org/cgit/installMinimalDevuanASCII/about/ Though I still have to double check the tarball that is the base filesystem image and commit that to. |
| 02:33.54 | mason | onefang: ooh, see, there's an improvement. Never occurred to me to here-doc the chroot. |
| 02:34.24 | mason | I thought I was being clever writing a script to run in the chroot, but yours is 100% better. |
| 02:34.50 | onefang | As a bonus, mine's tested to. B-) |
| 02:34.57 | mason | har |
| 02:35.08 | mason | My original version for Ubuntu was tested. |
| 02:36.05 | onefang | I include a version of debootstrap as part of it, so it should run under most Debian based systems. I was running it under Debian Jessie if I recall. |
| 02:36.38 | mason | Ubuntu had some eponymous packages which made it distinct. |
| 02:36.48 | mason | Also, I was working around GRUB bugs, and I'm just not willing this time around. :P |
| 02:37.48 | onefang | Well, mine does use grub2, but I'm interested in checking out elilo, if it gets into Devuan, or there's a PPA for it. |
| 02:37.59 | mason | There will be if there's not, as I want it. |
| 02:38.25 | mason | The thing with GRUB is that it wouldn't deal with multiple cryptdisks. |
| 02:38.35 | onefang | My script does add a bunch of PPAs. |
| 02:38.40 | mason | This normally wouldn't matter, but it did for mirrored ZFS. |
| 02:38.53 | onefang | I'm just using ext4. |
| 02:39.43 | mason | That makes it easier. Plain mdadm also is relatively straightforward. GRUB notionally had code for handling multiple cryptdisks, but in fact it was buggy and would generate syntactically incorrect config, which it'd then choke on. |
| 02:40.07 | mason | I think I sent a patch for that part, although I never actually tested that it was unlocking all available cryptdisks. |
| 02:40.15 | onefang | Then avoiding grub seems reasonable. |
| 02:40.30 | mason | We'll be packaging elilo ourselves, as it's been dropped in Debian. |
| 02:40.54 | mason | Also, after a quick pass a week ago, I didn't see how to get GRUB to load a kernel and initrd both sitting in an ESP. |
| 02:40.57 | onefang | What are the advantages of elilo. Is it similar to lilo? |
| 02:41.01 | mason | Simpler. |
| 02:41.45 | onefang | Does it need a separate boot partition near the beginning of the disk like lilo did? |
| 02:41.57 | mason | onefang: Here's the entirety of the config I need to boot into my kernel and point at an initramfs that has zfs-initramfs included: https://bpaste.net/show/WNTS |
| 02:42.13 | mason | Well, elilo lives in your ESP, and if you're booting UEFI you've got one. |
| 02:42.54 | onefang | That was gonna be my next question. Does it support UEFI and legacy BIOS? |
| 02:43.10 | mason | No, just UEFI. You need plain ol' lilo for legacy. |
| 02:44.32 | mason | Whoops, forgot the -av for rsync'ing directories. Cough. |
| 02:45.06 | mason | Oh, and I have it happening inside the chroot, which is wrong. Sigh. |
| 02:46.35 | onefang | This is why I tested my script on my test box, to find out what I screwed up, before I tried it on my remote server. B-) |
| 02:47.03 | mason | Doing it to my laptop here. Poor thing. |
| 02:47.57 | mason | Well, time to reboot it and see if it is anything close to a working system. |
| 02:48.30 | onefang | Lunch time. |
| 02:48.42 | mason | WOW. |
| 02:48.45 | onefang | wanders into the kitchen to fire up the oven. |
| 02:48.47 | mason | First time and it worked. |
| 02:48.50 | mason | Enjoy |
| 02:48.54 | onefang | Cool. |
| 02:49.33 | mason | Ooh, forgot to enable to ZFS automounting scripting. But that's a minor detail. I'm booted into a ZFS root. \o/ |
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| 02:50.54 | mason | And, locales... Hrm. |
| 02:50.56 | mason | But anyway. |
| 02:54.11 | fsmithred | Latest rumor here is that the power will go off in a few minutes. Gonna shut down for now. |
| 02:54.32 | mason | kk, hope it comes back if it goes out |
| 02:54.41 | gnarface | good luck, fsmithred |
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| 02:55.54 | furrywolf | fun, you're in central ca? it's been out here in northern ca since mignight. |
| 02:57.50 | onefang | My script handles locales. |
| 02:58.51 | gnarface | gone... |
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| 03:16.08 | mason | onefang: The principal thing I want to steal from your script is the cleaner chroot handling, but I'll look for other bits I'm missing too. |
| 03:16.25 | mason | I feel like I'm missing some packages. Do you know what you get if you don't use mininstall? |
| 03:17.02 | onefang | Not off the top of my head. |
| 03:17.51 | onefang | I went with --variant=minbase to get the absolute bare minimum, than added the stuff I needed. |
| 03:18.03 | mason | My invocation of debootstrap isn't getting me less, man, etc. There was an ubuntu-minimal package that probably has an equivalent I should find. |
| 03:18.42 | onefang | Yeah, less and man are things I apt install later in the script. |
| 03:18.57 | onefang | # Install other stuff that every one needs. |
| 03:19.56 | mason | hrm, I'm getting bzip2 already |
| 03:20.30 | mason | I'm missing several of those. I'll tell you if I find a minimal system. Probably worth looking at the base system tasksel list. |
| 03:21.27 | golinux | mason: Most power in northern Cali is expected to go out for days. |
| 03:21.30 | mason | onefang: Hm, maybe we both want to move to "tasksel --task-packages standard" |
| 03:21.47 | mason | golinux: Yeah, from the wildfires. Dire stuff really. |
| 03:22.04 | onefang | Basically I'm debootstrapping minbase plus a few extras, to get absolutely bare minimum, disabling recommends, then apt installing the stuff I really need. |
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| 03:22.19 | onefang | BRB |
| 03:22.22 | golinux | Poorly maintained infrastructure |
| 03:22.32 | mason | onefang: Check out tasksel. I think it'll help make us more uniform with debian-installer. |
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| 03:24.30 | mason | onefang: e.g., tasksel --task-packages laptop | apt install --yes |
| 03:26.26 | mason | onefang: Last nit for now, I note your referring to /bin/bash, but remember that the system shell is really dash. |
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| 03:26.48 | onefang | I'm happy with my minimal install on both desktop and server. Though later I installed things like science-all and multimedia-all. |
| 03:27.12 | onefang | Installed those things on the desktop I meant. |
| 03:27.27 | mason | onefang: I like your --include syntax on debootstrap too. Haven't seen that before. |
| 03:27.48 | onefang | #!/bin/bash is habit. lol |
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| 03:51.19 | inklr | did anyone try to make a gui to .asoundrc? |
| 03:51.38 | gnarface | i dunno but that's a neat idea |
| 03:51.50 | mason | It'd be useful. |
| 03:51.56 | gnarface | it would be super hard |
| 03:52.08 | furrywolf | heh. I fucking have code in alsa-lib and I still can't figure out the rc files for it. |
| 03:52.27 | mason | Eh, if you kept data separate and treated it as a compile target, it might not be so bad. |
| 03:53.29 | inklr | gnarface: i think with limited scope it could be helpful, like showing a list of available cards and setting the default, for e.g. |
| 03:53.39 | furrywolf | bbl |
| 03:53.44 | inklr | or it could be an incremental project, just starting with default card selection |
| 03:53.53 | inklr | i was surprised to see my android phone uses alsa |
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| 04:10.12 | onefang | Hmm, one thing I would change in my script is that it uses apt-get, I switched to using apt since then, the script could to. |
| 04:14.27 | mason | I just found that Intel's TearFree works like magic on my laptop. |
| 04:16.20 | gnarface | intel has really stepped up their driver game, it is true |
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| 04:19.11 | mason | Alright, it's past pumpkin time for me. o/ |
| 04:19.37 | onefang | G'night. |
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| 08:42.15 | Evilham | in case anyone wonders: a misbehaving mirror has been removed from the deb.devuan.org round robin, it can take a bit to be propagated |
| 08:42.42 | Evilham | (and devuan.ipacct.com is down, but it's not in the RR, so if you use that mirror, switch to another one for the time being) |
| 08:45.18 | onefang | So is that one or two mirrors you are talking about? |
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| 08:49.33 | Evilham | two, one in the Round Robin and one regular mirror |
| 08:49.54 | Evilham | I mostly just care about mirrors in the RR :-) |
| 08:50.06 | Evilham | those are the ones that break things for most people |
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| 09:07.12 | onefang | My checker script only sees that devuan.ipacct.com is down, and that mirror.devuan.de isn't responding to HTTPS, though it says it does. |
| 09:14.14 | Evilham | because your checker script misses a whole class of issues :-p |
| 09:14.44 | Evilham | # > curl -H 'Host: deb.devuan.org' 'http://[2001:590:3803::31:151]/merged/dists/beowulf/Release' |
| 09:15.19 | onefang | Ah, IPv6, I don't have that at home. |
| 09:15.28 | Evilham | :-) |
| 09:15.37 | r3boot | Another option is to use check_http from monitoring-plugins |
| 09:16.17 | Evilham | r3boot: it's fine :-D monitoring is working quite well atm |
| 09:16.29 | r3boot | okok :) |
| 09:16.52 | Evilham | I mean, the sucky factor atm is that action depends on 1 human who does a thousand other things :-) |
| 09:17.03 | Evilham | but hopefully that'll be addressed at some point |
| 09:17.20 | Evilham | but monitoring is doing its job :-p |
| 09:17.35 | onefang | Yep, when I pull my finger out yet again and get my checker script to actually produce reports. |
| 09:17.53 | onefang | And run it on my server that DOES have IPv6. B-) |
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| 09:37.41 | r3boot | Evilham: ghe, the age-old IT story.. GL! |
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| 14:56.00 | TwoTall | Ubuntu doesn't have a iso to dvd gui installed by default; I found brasero and was able to create the live DVD. And, I have the install pages, so I am good. I'll let you know how the install goes, now that I figured out how to make a dvd. |
| 14:58.52 | golinux | TwoTall: Xfburn is very good also. Native to Xfce obviously. Good luck with your install! |
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| 15:35.05 | sixwheeledbeast | Brasero was in Ubuntu by default unless you have a minimal install or the like |
| 15:36.58 | sixwheeledbeast | Startup disk creator should be able to do it too IIRC. |
| 15:38.27 | TwoTall | Fresh install of 18.04.3 did not have an option to burn when right clicking on iso. Thats much I can confirm. |
| 15:39.24 | sixwheeledbeast | but that doesn't mean there isn't a package installed. |
| 15:39.33 | TwoTall | So I needed to use dd if of or brasero which I found online by chance. |
| 15:39.43 | sixwheeledbeast | usb-cretor-gtk |
| 15:39.47 | sixwheeledbeast | creator |
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| 15:40.37 | TwoTall | My reason for mentioning wasn't to debate whether it was there or not; it was to make your install go smoothy if the new user can not find a solution. |
| 15:41.27 | TwoTall | it was a request to add the dd command line or mention an app |
| 15:41.42 | TwoTall | within the instructions |
| 15:42.07 | sixwheeledbeast | I wasn't debating just trying to help. Brasero was the default CD tool for Ubuntu and they have also had usb-creator since xenial. |
| 15:42.47 | TwoTall | I just installed it; hated systemd, and really didn't want anything to do with it after that. |
| 15:44.56 | mason | onefang: So, here's something. Using a here-doc for a chroot seems to inhibit keyboard interactions. |
| 15:45.08 | mason | It's unfortunate, as I really liked the cleanliness of the idea. |
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| 15:48.51 | Walex | mason: 'isatty' 'expect'/'screen'/'ptyget' |
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| 15:49.00 | Walex | mason: https://jdebp.eu/Softwares/djbwares/bernstein-ptyget.html |
| 15:51.12 | mason | Walex: Nifty. |
| 15:51.30 | mason | Walex: But I think it might be simpler to go back to my old method, which was to populate a script and run that in the chroot. |
| 15:51.45 | mason | Walex: But that is indeed nifty and I'll remember it. |
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| 17:43.18 | ]BFG[ | will we have systemD implemented with the halloween version? |
| 17:43.21 | ]BFG[ | Laughs Out Loud |
| 17:46.30 | Kjetil | SystemE.. far superior |
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| 18:20.42 | _plasma | How active is Devuan development? Are there plans to target Debian bullseye? |
| 18:20.59 | _plasma | I wish to escape systemd |
| 18:21.28 | _plasma | also do the proprietary nvidia drivers install okay, from their tgz? |
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| 18:25.11 | buZz | _plasma: i installed them from apt |
| 18:25.14 | buZz | works fine |
| 18:25.31 | buZz | beowulf or ascii-backports comes with 418.74 |
| 18:25.58 | _plasma | Ah, ironically even on Debian I haven't had any luck witht eh nvidia drivers in apt. I've tried a few times , and it works best for me with the tgz |
| 18:26.03 | golinux | _plasma: Chimaera will be our fork of Bullseye. |
| 18:26.10 | _plasma | I put ascii on a vm |
| 18:26.12 | _plasma | o nice |
| 18:26.17 | _plasma | so it's an active project |
| 18:26.23 | buZz | the steps from https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers work fine |
| 18:26.28 | _plasma | ah k, thanks, |
| 18:27.19 | golinux | We are working on a point release of ASCII then shortly there after, Beowulf will be released (hopefully) |
| 18:27.55 | fsmithred | yeah, I think beowulf will come together quickly |
| 18:28.06 | _plasma | is there a list of all the systemd stuff that devuan has replaced with alternatives? And what those alternatives are |
| 18:28.11 | buZz | beowulf already works quite decently |
| 18:28.53 | fsmithred | _plasma, most of the alternatives have the same package name but have +devuan in the version |
| 18:29.02 | _plasma | o neat |
| 18:29.08 | _plasma | I'll browse with dpkg |
| 18:29.22 | buZz | there |
| 18:29.24 | fsmithred | dpkg -l |grep devuan |
| 18:29.26 | buZz | there's also https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ |
| 18:29.34 | buZz | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=devuan&release=ascii |
| 18:29.36 | buZz | :) |
| 18:30.26 | _plasma | that's quite a lot of customization |
| 18:31.15 | _plasma | is beowulf stable enough to use for daily use? I'll try it in a vm first |
| 18:31.31 | fsmithred | yeah, I think so |
| 18:31.45 | buZz | i run it on my workstation and laptop |
| 18:31.55 | _plasma | nice |
| 18:32.17 | _plasma | do I download ascii and do a dist upgrade via apt? or is there a dedicated devuan-live for beowulf already? |
| 18:32.27 | fsmithred | I did a default ascii desktop install a few days ago and upgraded to beowulf. |
| 18:32.33 | fsmithred | it was smooth and easy |
| 18:32.37 | _plasma | nice |
| 18:32.40 | _plasma | I shall do that |
| 18:32.51 | _plasma | I've been going down the rabbit hole of researching systemd and its devs |
| 18:33.05 | fsmithred | after you reboot into the new system, you might want to install libelogind0 to replace libsystemd0 |
| 18:33.15 | fsmithred | right now that's not happening automatically |
| 18:33.15 | _plasma | I'll make a note |
| 18:33.25 | fsmithred | and you might need to use aptitude to do it |
| 18:33.28 | buZz | i distupgraded from a ascii system with >5000 pkg installed |
| 18:33.36 | buZz | it wasnt without issues , but worked in the end :) |
| 18:34.35 | _plasma | can I make a recommendation to include a custom version of gtk3, which includes a patch that undoes the gnome devs' removal of the typeahead feature? e.g. https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/gtk3-typeahead/ |
| 18:34.43 | _plasma | more info: https://www.reddit.com/r/archlinux/comments/33x4wk/gnomegtk_316_file_chooser_typeahead/ |
| 18:36.21 | golinux | You must know that the machine is smarter than you. ;) |
| 18:36.37 | buZz | 4 years ago? |
| 18:37.02 | _plasma | with like four years of comments almost, in the linked bug |
| 18:37.04 | Evilham | _plasma: I hate that feature |
| 18:37.16 | _plasma | same. What's weird though is I Didn't even get that behavior until I ugpraded something recently |
| 18:37.19 | Evilham | Pretty much everyone I know hates it |
| 18:37.24 | _plasma | I use thunar as my file browser, but some use the gtk file picker |
| 18:37.40 | buZz | i use bash in xterm as file browser |
| 18:38.01 | _plasma | I think perhaps ubuntu has a custom version: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gtk+3.0/+bug/1818819 |
| 18:38.14 | _plasma | when I go to save a file in waterfox or open one in gvim, I get that stupid gtk file chooser |
| 18:38.40 | Evilham | buZz: sometimes one has to use things that use gtk, and thos dialogues do pop in |
| 18:38.56 | buZz | cant say i've ever noticed it |
| 18:39.10 | _plasma | I'm a very heavy keyboard user |
| 18:39.28 | buZz | yet use gvim instead of vim? :P |
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| 18:45.07 | _plasma | BuZz sometimes ya |
| 18:45.17 | _plasma | usually vim, but gvim makes it easier to do demos and stuff when presenting |
| 18:45.24 | _plasma | more easily change font size, colorschemes |
| 18:48.04 | buZz | your xterm doesnt allow to change font size? |
| 18:48.24 | _plasma | I used urxvt, which didn't actually |
| 18:48.27 | _plasma | now I use kitty, which is quite nice and does |
| 18:49.11 | _plasma | I should also learn the command, but sometimes I need to copy something into only one clipboard (the X buffer or the actual system clipboard), and gvim makes that easier with its edit->copy menu |
| 18:49.21 | _plasma | no real reason then, just a habit |
| 18:50.05 | _plasma | but other apps I can't avoid the gtk file chooser dialog. Waterfox, krita, Telegram I think |
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