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| 14:56.05 | inklr | could you please stop that IoFran |
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| 16:06.38 | debdog | nomen est omen (SCNR) |
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| 16:38.50 | yeti | sees no IoFran (filtering nonchat noise) |
| 16:39.28 | yeti | that HelpsALot-Forte⢠|
| 16:47.51 | inklr | added keycode 28 = t T U2122 to ~/.Xmodmap for ⢠|
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| 16:51.12 | yeti | . o O ( Compose® ) |
| 16:55.39 | inklr | keycode 27 = r R 0xae ® |
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| 17:13.01 | mason | inklr: Might be better to set up .XCompose for that sort of thing. |
| 17:13.19 | mason | inklr: Otherwise you'll end up running out of keys. |
| 17:14.09 | inklr | perhaps but i only have 13 added special characters so far |
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| 17:24.24 | mason | That's enough to make it worthwhile. I say "remove Mod4 = Super_L" and "keysym Super_L = Multi_key" to turn my "Windows" key into Compose, and then I use XIM to enter keys. My ~/.XCompose starts with 'include "/usr/share/X11/locale/en_US.UTF-8/Compose"' and then has custom entries, like '<Multi_key> <p> <i> : "Ï"' or '<Multi_key> <p> <c> : "â®"' |
| 17:24.57 | mason | inklr: ^ |
| 17:25.37 | yeti | is happy with capslock reused as compose |
| 17:25.38 | inklr | i do not understand the benefit mason |
| 17:25.56 | inklr | keycode 66 = Mode_switch yeti ;) |
| 17:26.12 | mason | inklr: You don't have to use an ever-expanding list of keys. Gives you a system to flexibly add more and more things. |
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| 17:26.55 | mason | yeti: If you don't make caps into control, how can you pretend you've still got a Sun Type IV keyboard? |
| 17:27.11 | inklr | how would i add new mappings without adding new mappings, if i use XCompose? |
| 17:27.30 | mason | inklr: It's all keyed off compose, rather than consuming unique keycodes. |
| 17:28.00 | inklr | ok, it solves a problem i do not have, but thanks for telling me about it |
| 17:28.03 | mason | So, you type keycode 28, I type compose-t-m for ⢠|
| 17:28.32 | mason | inklr: You can do it however you like. I'm just pointing out the traditional way to do it. |
| 17:31.51 | inklr | i type capslock-t for ⢠|
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| 18:27.13 | yeti | compose d f --> #debianfork # o:-) |
| 18:31.24 | inklr | what the heck is /usr/bin/xkeystone for? |
| 18:31.26 | inklr | no manpage... |
| 18:35.33 | se7en | Everything I see in related results, inklr, show either relation to Xkeystore or the Qanon retards |
| 18:37.15 | se7en | https://bugs.archlinux.org/task/21494 |
| 18:37.29 | debdog | looks like a script |
| 18:37.33 | se7en | http://www.polarhome.com/service/man/?qf=xkeystone&tf=2&of=Scientific&sf=1 |
| 18:37.39 | se7en | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=579185 |
| 18:37.47 | se7en | https://github.com/clearlinux/distribution/issues/1034 |
| 18:37.51 | se7en | http://archive.linuxfromscratch.org/mail-archives/blfs-dev/2015-August/030821.html |
| 18:39.56 | se7en | It looks like a broken program bundled with x11-utils dependent on the "Nickle" library, and used to adjust x11 keystone |
| 18:41.34 | se7en | keystone being the Keystone Effect; the angle at which an image is projected |
| 18:41.51 | inklr | ahh |
| 18:42.06 | inklr | Keith Packard does interesting stuff |
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| 21:21.11 | eyalroz | My quassel is having trouble playing audio notifications, |
| 21:21.24 | eyalroz | complaining about failing to connect to PulseAudio |
| 21:21.52 | eyalroz | (which indeed is not running - but why should it be?) |
| 21:23.14 | mason | I think I see the problem! |
| 21:23.41 | mason | eyalroz: I'm no expert, but, is your user a member of group 'audio'? |
| 21:23.56 | eyalroz | mason: I haven't added myself to that group... |
| 21:24.05 | eyalroz | Oh wait, |
| 21:24.07 | eyalroz | yes I am. |
| 21:24.16 | eyalroz | checked /etc/group . |
| 21:24.17 | mason | Do you have other things using audio? |
| 21:24.22 | eyalroz | Yes. |
| 21:24.27 | mason | and if you say id, does it show audio now? |
| 21:24.30 | eyalroz | My browser is paying some video. |
| 21:24.46 | eyalroz | what do you mean by "say id"? |
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| 21:25.12 | mason | run the 'id' command in your terminal |
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| 21:25.22 | mason | BUt if you're already playing audio that's probably not it. |
| 21:25.45 | mason | It can come up if you add yourself to a group but haven't restarted that session, which has your permissions and memberships set without that group. |
| 21:27.11 | mason | eyalroz: I'm not seeing anything relevant. Might be worth actually runing PulseAudio if it's built to use it. |
| 21:27.31 | mason | Alternately, you might get the source and rebuild without PulseAudio. Maybe it's a knob you can impact. |
| 21:28.49 | mason | eyalroz: I've got to go off and do a couple things, but: https://raphaelhertzog.com/2010/12/15/howto-to-rebuild-debian-packages/ and/or https://debian-administration.org/article/20/Rebuilding_Debian_packages |
| 21:29.32 | eyalroz | mason: Ok, thanks, I'll look into it. However, |
| 21:30.14 | eyalroz | if pulseaudio is not running by default, it's inappropriate for Quassel to depend on it running, on one hand, and not tell the user graphically about this dependence, on the other hand. |
| 21:30.30 | mason | eyalroz: Might be worth a bug report, sure. |
| 21:33.12 | debdog | just fyi, there's apulse for progs that depend on PA |
| 21:33.24 | gnarface | eyalroz: most stuff that depends on pulseaudio assumes you're not smart enough to turn it off. and pulseaudio itself intercepts alsa commands by default in a way that assumes you're not smart enough to turn it on. |
| 21:33.55 | eyalroz | gnarface: You might not be smart enough, but distro packagers are. |
| 21:34.18 | debdog | does quassel support native alsa? |
| 21:34.45 | gnarface | that's a good question debdog. i remember this coming up before and i don't know what the resolution was. it might be worth checking for quassel alternatives though... |
| 21:35.18 | debdog | there is no alternative |
| 21:35.19 | gnarface | oh what? it's a IRC client... wtf does that need pulseaudio for?? |
| 21:35.24 | gnarface | there's a billion alternatives... |
| 21:35.39 | gnarface | (hyperbole, but there's plenty of alternatives) |
| 21:35.50 | wyatt8740 | heh I'm experiencing that crap too, but because I'm still on regular debian and systemd-shim just gave up the ghost |
| 21:35.57 | debdog | well, not exactly. for quassel mono yes, but not for the server client one |
| 21:36.14 | wyatt8740 | so I'm using wpa_supplicant now while I wait until I have more time to attempt a hop |
| 21:36.30 | wyatt8740 | gnarface: have you tried apulse |
| 21:36.32 | wyatt8740 | oh debdog said |
| 21:36.35 | gnarface | eyalroz: i guess the first step is to figure out if quassel actually requires pulseaudio officially. |
| 21:36.43 | gnarface | wyatt8740: it's eyalroz's issue, not mine |
| 21:36.52 | wyatt8740 | oh ok |
| 21:36.54 | wyatt8740 | sorry |
| 21:36.59 | gnarface | wyatt8740: i have tried apulse though, and i can confirm it should work if you're not doing network streaming or recording |
| 21:37.00 | eyalroz | wyatt8740: What's apluse? |
| 21:37.15 | eyalroz | apulse rather? |
| 21:37.22 | debdog | https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse |
| 21:37.24 | wyatt8740 | it's a wrapper for alsa that pretends to be pulse for apps that don't work properly in alsa |
| 21:37.27 | gnarface | eyalroz: its a quick+dirty pulseaudio to alsa wrapper, modeled after the old aoss one |
| 21:37.50 | wyatt8740 | the guy also made a wrapper to let you use Chromium's flash plugin in firefox, which works quite nicely |
| 21:37.58 | gnarface | the mad man! |
| 21:38.26 | gnarface | i wish he could fix apulse to simulate the network streaming feature of pulseaudio so it could work with Steam's requirements |
| 21:38.28 | wyatt8740 | But yeah I use apulse with firefox nowadays, because I already compile the mozilla codebase once for seamonkey and don't really feel like doing it again for a browser I rarely use |
| 21:39.00 | eyalroz | wyatt8740: Ah. Interesting. Ok, I guess I can give that a try, but regardless - it seems to me like this shouldn't be happening in the first place. |
| 21:39.49 | gnarface | if i had a dollar for every time... |
| 21:40.05 | wyatt8740 | mozilla is dropping the alsa backend last I heard, so yeah I know that feeling |
| 21:40.18 | wyatt8740 | also since I am still on debian proper for the moment this is _every single upgrade_ |
| 21:40.31 | wyatt8740 | modified packages up the wazoo |
| 21:40.42 | gnarface | for the moment, i'm still not having a problem with firefox-esr |
| 21:40.57 | gnarface | (on devuan though, it might matter) |
| 21:41.15 | wyatt8740 | I believe this is around ff60 or so that they decided to kill it. But it's still in the codebase, just not enabled except at compile time |
| 21:42.04 | wyatt8740 | apparently because their telemetry showed no one used alsa without pulse and they trusted that opt-out telemetry data to accurately portray the kinds of people who use sysvinit |
| 21:44.00 | MinceR | i thought mozilla dropped that a while ago |
| 21:44.26 | MinceR | in their quest to make failfox Just Like Chrome, Except Even Worse⢠|
| 21:44.45 | wyatt8740 | ^ |
| 21:45.04 | wyatt8740 | As a seamonkey user I'm falling victim to that, too, since they broke seamonkey/TB so badly in recent months |
| 21:45.38 | wyatt8740 | sites are slowly starting to become incompatible |
| 21:46.43 | wyatt8740 | and apparently all kde/QT stuff needs systemd init according to debian, too, so that's fun |
| 21:50.32 | eyalroz | wyatt8740: Tell me about it! |
| 21:50.46 | eyalroz | I'm trying to adapt my extensions to TB 68 now |
| 21:51.07 | eyalroz | And while it's not a nightmare, it's quite the ordeal. |
| 21:51.17 | Centurion_Dan | I believe that debian currently re-enables the alsa backend in their build. |
| 21:51.17 | eyalroz | I get stuck on the dumbest things. |
| 21:51.31 | Centurion_Dan | ... for firefox. |
| 21:52.20 | Centurion_Dan | I have firefox-esr 60.9 working with alsa |
| 21:52.40 | wyatt8740 | hm, could be. |
| 21:52.51 | wyatt8740 | a few months ago they didn't, I'm using sid though |
| 21:54.11 | LtWorf_ | i'm using apulse |
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| 21:55.53 | wyatt8740 | I'm using dmix and dsnoop and nopulse right now, on this machine |
| 21:56.09 | wyatt8740 | nopulse being literally no pulse lib or wrapper. Not another project |
| 21:56.17 | *** join/#devuan eyalroz (~quassel@5.29.148.254) |
| 21:56.38 | MinceR | i'm using dmix and no execute permissions on the pulseaudio server executable :> |
| 21:57.12 | eyalroz | So, apulse is not helping, it gives me this error: |
| 21:57.13 | eyalroz | https://pastebin.com/7UcbEzJc |
| 21:57.42 | LtWorf_ | isn't dmix the default on debian anyway? If nothing pulls pulse with recommends |
| 21:58.48 | gnarface | eyalroz: you might have a alsa config in place that is interfering, but this particular error is a complaint about the audio format |
| 21:59.06 | eyalroz | .oga file from /usr/share/sounds |
| 22:00.18 | gnarface | eyalroz: ~192000 bps??? come on man, try something normal |
| 22:01.16 | gnarface | eyalroz: you gotta start with something matching the native hardware format your audio device supports first, to narrow down the cause of this error between a insurmountable driver issue or a self-inflicted configuration issue |
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| 22:01.52 | gnarface | eyalroz: like try recording something with arecord then playing it back |
| 22:02.16 | gnarface | try something like arecord -f dat [test.wav] |
| 22:02.32 | eyalroz | gnarface: Tried a .wav, that failed too |
| 22:02.33 | eyalroz | [00007fb9ccc0b0c0] main decoder error: failed to create audio output |
| 22:02.33 | eyalroz | [000055d0425c13a0] pulse audio output error: unsupported channel map |
| 22:02.33 | eyalroz | [000055d0425c13a0] main audio output error: module not functional |
| 22:02.33 | eyalroz | [00007fb9ccc0b0c0] main decoder error: failed to create audio output |
| 22:02.34 | eyalroz | [00007fb9ccc0b0c0] main decoder error: buffer deadlock prevented |
| 22:02.45 | gnarface | yikes |
| 22:02.50 | gnarface | this used to work, right? |
| 22:03.10 | eyalroz | for me? I don't think so. I didn't try to get audio notifications working on quassel before. |
| 22:03.26 | gnarface | oh, i was wondering if the issue is being complicated by a driver or program crash that has hung and tied up the card. that could cause similar errors |
| 22:03.33 | gnarface | ok |
| 22:03.38 | gnarface | but only quassel has problems, right? |
| 22:04.15 | gnarface | like, this works, right? speaker-test -c 2 -r 48000 -f S16_LE -t wav |
| 22:05.23 | gnarface | also check for residual alsa configs with pulseaudio slugs in them in /etc/alsa or ~/.asoundrc |
| 22:06.10 | eyalroz | gnarface: I don't know about problems anywhere else, but I haven't actively looked. I play audio with a bunch of apps and they work. |
| 22:06.26 | eyalroz | the speaker test works. |
| 22:06.31 | gnarface | ok that's a good sign |
| 22:08.10 | gnarface | eyalroz: pastebin the output of this: aplay --verbose --dump-hw-params /dev/zero |
| 22:09.53 | eyalroz | gnarface: As root or regular user? |
| 22:10.25 | gnarface | shouldn't matter |
| 22:10.28 | eyalroz | As regular user: https://pastebin.com/YeC5Y2Dx |
| 22:11.23 | gnarface | ok, looks completely normal as far as i can tell, though i'm no expert |
| 22:11.48 | gnarface | i have to conclude the issue is in quassel itself, but i'm having trouble coming up with any documentation on the audio configuration for it. there *should* be some way to override it's defaults |
| 22:12.21 | gnarface | there is one thing you can try that all alsa-supporting programs are supposed to obey no matter what: $ALSA_CARD |
| 22:13.39 | gnarface | something like ALSA_CARD="hw" quassel |
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| 22:13.55 | gnarface | or ALSA_CARD=default quassel (though that should already be the default...) |
| 22:14.38 | gnarface | or maybe even, if i have this right... ALSA_CARD="plug:\"dmix:hw,0\"" quassel |
| 22:15.12 | gnarface | or maybe: ALSA_CARD="plug:\"dmix:hw\"" apulse quassel |
| 22:15.16 | gnarface | i'm not sure |
| 22:15.29 | gnarface | but someone certainly has to have run into this before. you can't be the first one |
| 22:15.38 | gnarface | someone knows how to work around this |
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| 22:19.33 | gnarface | i think i even once knew how to work around this but i've forgotten because i never had to use it myself |
| 22:31.34 | gnarface | eyalroz: does quassel have a irc channel you can ask about this? |
| 22:31.58 | eyalroz | gnarface: Dunno. |
| 22:32.05 | eyalroz | I guess I could look for one. |
| 22:32.40 | gnarface | didn't mean he had to leave here though... |
| 22:32.45 | *** join/#devuan eyalroz (~quassel@5.29.148.254) |
| 22:32.56 | gnarface | oh good you came back |
| 22:33.16 | eyalroz | I was trying your ALSA_CARD="plug..." command |
| 22:33.19 | eyalroz | No luck |
| 22:33.22 | gnarface | i was gonna say, even if they can point you in the right general direction i might be able to help with some basics of the ~/.asoundrc config format |
| 22:33.58 | gnarface | if you can figure out what a program is doing wrong, you can often route around the misbehavior with a custom ~/.asoundrc |
| 22:34.07 | gnarface | sometimes that even works for driver bugs too |
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| 22:34.30 | golinux | arch wiki has good audio info |
| 22:34.48 | golinux | I have a .asoundrc file |
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| 23:08.37 | calamari | Does Devuan still track Debian stable releases? |
| 23:12.10 | golinux | Right now ascii is tracking stretch = oldstable and beowulf (our testing) is tracking Buster = stable |
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| 23:13.25 | golinux | That's why Devuan recommends using release codenames in sources.list. |
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| 23:13.34 | golinux | calamari: ^^^ |
| 23:15.55 | calamari | golinux: thank you |
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