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| 04:39.24 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | D1conf: #devuan-conf https://devuan.org/d1conf | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | You may need to auth to NickServ |
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| 04:43.22 | golinux | systemdlete2: https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=linux-image-4.10&release=any |
| 04:43.25 | golinux | 0 results for "linux-image-4.10" in any |
| 04:43.58 | systemdlete2 | any newer maybe? |
| 04:44.08 | systemdlete2 | like 4.19? |
| 04:45.14 | golinux | Give it a spin: https://pkginfo.devuan.org |
| 04:45.47 | systemdlete2 | I thin I found it,thx golinux |
| 04:47.06 | golinux | Cool! You know . . . teach a man to fish . . . ;) |
| 04:50.35 | systemdlete2 | right. Now teach me best wait to bait a hook... dpkg or apt? |
| 04:50.45 | systemdlete2 | (sorry I've forgotten) |
| 04:52.01 | systemdlete2 | I don't see a download link for the package I want |
| 04:54.53 | systemdlete2 | the links there only link another web page, not a file |
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| 10:37.16 | djph | systemdlete: they're equivalent. |
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| 11:32.18 | systemdlete | djph: What is equivalent to what? (sorry, maybe I am dense...) |
| 11:33.12 | systemdlete | I solved it by just "apt -t ascii-backports linux-image-whatever-the-heck..." |
| 11:34.05 | systemdlete | it installed the 4.19 kernel and it really DOES make my laptop settle down. It is much more stable now. I can log out of xfce 10x, or it seems, and no longer hangs. But stay tuned; I've seen these issues return |
| 11:34.33 | systemdlete | Trouble is, I may need an even MORE recent kernel to resolve my cinnamon issue, which also ultimately hangs the system. |
| 11:35.02 | systemdlete | Not sure what might be available beyond 4.19, unless I consider upgrading to beowulf or something. |
| 11:36.52 | systemdlete | I'd like to use cinnamon because I've heard that cinnamon offers a good experience on a touch tablet. |
| 11:37.33 | systemdlete | oh, just got it, djph. Guess I should have gone back and thoroughly read what I wrote there. |
| 11:38.00 | systemdlete | you are saying I could have used either apt or dpkg in that instance. OK, I'll keep in mind for future. |
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| 13:42.20 | djph | systemdlete: apt and dpkg |
| 13:42.43 | djph | systemdlete: well, assuminv the package is in the repos. |
| 13:43.52 | systemdlete | Yeah, I figured you out. (finally, sorry it took me some time) |
| 13:44.33 | systemdlete | anyway, I've got cinnamon running ok now. The kernel update was badly needed, as gnarface suggested. It is a newer kernel, seems stable. |
| 13:45.09 | djph | heh, good deal systemdlete |
| 13:45.11 | systemdlete | I also had to fix the orientation of lightdm -- there is a way to configure a setup script for lightdm and all it does is call xrandr to rotate the screen. |
| 13:45.27 | systemdlete | (well I sure pestered enough people here enough times!) |
| 13:46.11 | systemdlete | once lightdm was straightened out, cinnamon magically started working correctly. Trouble is, the touch gestures don't translate with the rotation. |
| 13:47.05 | systemdlete | But I continue to google items, trying to make this work for me. One thing I've concluded is that there are no DE's at this time that create a truly touchscreen-friendly user experience. |
| 13:47.23 | systemdlete | oh well. |
| 13:51.05 | systemdlete | It is nice having a new laptop anyway. Someday I'll be able to use it as a tablet, too. I just have to be patient. |
| 13:53.49 | systemdlete | actually, it will work as a tablet, but only if I rotate it back to portrait mode. For this, cinnamon works very well. The only sticky point now is the virtual keyboard (my current "project") |
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| 14:02.08 | xrogaan | systemdlete: use backports |
| 14:02.24 | xrogaan | 4.19.0-0.bpo.5-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.19.37-5+deb10u2~bpo9+1 |
| 14:02.41 | systemdlete | got that already, xrogaan. thanks |
| 14:02.55 | systemdlete | made a VAST improvement in stability. |
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| 14:14.22 | xrogaan | is that so? |
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| 14:56.20 | systemdlete | you are surprised xrogaan? In fact, many posts indicate that kernels after about 4.9 stabilize their systems |
| 14:56.34 | systemdlete | (googled it) |
| 14:56.57 | systemdlete | bbl |
| 14:59.37 | xrogaan | probably depends on the hardware |
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| 16:29.09 | james1138 | General question. Is there a chat group to discuss Linux games? |
| 16:31.52 | fbt | Well there's the GoL community, although their main chat is on Telegram |
| 16:32.23 | fbt | These guys: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/ |
| 16:34.57 | james1138 | Big thanks FBT! |
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| 16:36.47 | HyperTables | how do I install docker? I see no `docker.io` package |
| 16:37.27 | HyperTables | Package docker.io is not available, but is referred to by another package.This may mean that the package is missing, has been obsoleted, oris only available from another source |
| 16:40.15 | r3boot | HyperTables: your best bet is to install the upstream docker packages, https://docs.docker.com/install/linux/docker-ce/debian/ |
| 16:41.23 | HyperTables | thanks - will give that a try |
| 16:41.36 | fsmithred | beowulf has docker.io |
| 16:41.45 | fsmithred | (in case upstream doesn't work) |
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| 17:22.58 | HyperTables | sudo service --status-allshows |
| 17:23.17 | HyperTables | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:23.54 | HyperTables | ah got it I had to do `sudo service docker start` |
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| 18:31.01 | plasma41 | james1138: You may want to check out #libregamenight here on freenode. |
| 18:34.54 | james1138 | What is the libregamenight chat? |
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| 18:41.30 | gnarface | systemdlete: enlightenment 0.17 and later have a some sort of mobile/tablet mode that might be worth checking out for you. i've never tried it myself though. |
| 18:41.30 | golinux | All this is OT and should be on #debianfork ;) |
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| 22:44.01 | tom_work | hello |
| 22:44.37 | tom_work | I'm having some trouble with Devuan. My sftp downloads are incredibly slow despite being on the same ISP |
| 22:44.38 | tom_work | https://upload.nuegia.net/f9ebaa7e-0eba-4bd6-9c06-a3399cb2d5f9/screenshot.png |
| 22:45.10 | tom_work | Are there any known causes for this or troubleshooting steps for fuse sftp? |
| 22:46.26 | tom_work | 40 and 5kB/s seems a bit wrong |
| 22:49.03 | tom_work | is there something wrong with the way fuse handles sparse files? |
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| 22:55.51 | gnarface | tom_work: can you reproduce the problem with scp? |
| 22:58.19 | gnarface | there is every possibility there is a problem with the fuse driver in your particular kernel version that is specific to sftp, but it is far more likely the ISP is just indiscriminately throttling encrypted traffic |
| 22:59.25 | tom_work | gnarface, the coffee shop i'm in is the same ISP I use at home, and both are using a static ip. I know this ISP not to be doing that and not have the capability to do that even if they wanted to. |
| 22:59.30 | tom_work | I used to work there |
| 22:59.42 | tom_work | so I'm pretty confident ruling that out |
| 22:59.52 | tom_work | It's a small local ISP not a comcast |
| 23:01.19 | tom_work | hmm. |
| 23:01.19 | gnarface | tom_work: ok, that's fair. but every Comcast customer who ever ran into this problem told me the same thing |
| 23:01.29 | gnarface | (just for the record) |
| 23:01.46 | tom_work | scp does not seem to fluctuate as much |
| 23:02.06 | gnarface | best thing you can do is try some other ports and tranfer protocols, see if you can narrow down the exact problem |
| 23:02.23 | tom_work | I mean there is still a pretty significant pause between when each file starts up the transfer but not nearly as bad as fuse |
| 23:02.55 | gnarface | also, if you can see the problem beteween two computers within the same LAN, and then reproduce that with two machines in a *different* LAN that would be a strong indicator that it is a kernel issue |
| 23:02.58 | tom_work | with fuse the whole file manager locks up for a good 6 seconds if I list out a directory with more than 30 files in it |
| 23:03.29 | tom_work | ok |
| 23:03.59 | tom_work | is the fuse sftp implementation particular sensitive to network latency? |
| 23:04.14 | gnarface | i don't know |
| 23:04.27 | tom_work | is there a better unix-xattr native protocol I could use instead of sftp? |
| 23:05.00 | gnarface | sshfs? |
| 23:05.06 | gnarface | it also uses fuse |
| 23:05.14 | gnarface | but i don't really know either |
| 23:05.15 | tom_work | only thing I'm aware of is NFS but that sucks pretty bad outside of a lan or even over wifi |
| 23:05.17 | gnarface | i always use scp |
| 23:05.23 | gnarface | well, almost always |
| 23:05.58 | tom_work | do you know if sftp://home over fuse uses the legacy SCP protocol or the current SFTP protocol? |
| 23:06.18 | gnarface | it would depend on your client program |
| 23:06.30 | tom_work | scp as in a simple in-band cat %s where sftp is an actual file transfer protocol of it's own over a ssh channel |
| 23:06.33 | tom_work | thnar |
| 23:06.35 | tom_work | thunar |
| 23:08.04 | gnarface | i was not aware there was a significant distinction between scp and current sftp in how data is transferred |
| 23:08.33 | gnarface | it was my understanding that the "legacy" protocol was the old sftp (some sort of tls+ftp hybrid operating on a non-ssh port) |
| 23:09.32 | gnarface | encrypted file transfers are cpu-bound operations though... you're sure this isn't just being caused by high load or insufficient hardware resources at the server end? |
| 23:10.14 | gnarface | and low RAM availability could impact all file transfers, not just the encrypted ones |
| 23:10.44 | gnarface | anyway |
| 23:11.15 | gnarface | so far i've not seen this issue except on windows with Putty's pscp.exe |
| 23:11.18 | tom_work | gnarface, no what's going on is SCP is actually the deprecated protocol where it's a simple catting out of some file over the encrypted SSH channel sorta like oldstyle x-kermit transfer over serial links or dialin modems. where SFTP is it's own transfer protocol implemented by the /usr/sbin/openssh-sftpd binary. sftp is the new protocol your supposed to use and most operating systems just symlink scp to sftp because the syntax is |
| 23:11.18 | tom_work | mostly the same |
| 23:12.04 | tom_work | gnarface, oh yeah. the cpu-bound of my link is more ~970 megabits |
| 23:12.31 | tom_work | I made a small bash script that tests SSH ciphersuite performance over loopback |
| 23:13.11 | tom_work | funny thing is that chacha20 is faster than blowfish, but still slightly slower than hardware accelerate AES |
| 23:13.47 | tom_work | chacha20 being both faster and stronger than blowfish |
| 23:13.52 | tom_work | in software implementations |
| 23:16.37 | gnarface | is this ascii you're testing? |
| 23:17.15 | gnarface | if it's ascii with a stock kernel and there were known performance issues like this in FUSE, the backports kernel may have already integrated a fix |
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| 23:38.58 | tom_work | gnarface, it is indeed ascii |
| 23:39.10 | tom_work | hey gnarface |
| 23:39.22 | tom_work | since I'm using this as a desktop should I be using the rt kernel? |
| 23:39.27 | tom_work | or laptop rather |
| 23:39.43 | tom_work | I normally use rt kernels on workstations |
| 23:41.43 | tom_work | linux-image-rt-amd64 |
| 23:45.19 | tom_work | should desktops be using a rt kernel instead of the regular kernel build for interactive workloads not server workloads |
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| 23:50.37 | debdog | last time I've checked, like 10 years ago, RT did not improve user respons time, quite the opposite. could be irrelevant with modern, faster CPUs |
| 23:51.04 | debdog | back then RT was useful for real time audio processing |
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