| 00:00.26 | gnarface | sign up to the mailing list and wait for a confirmation? |
| 00:01.56 | tom_work | Should I post this in the Debian or Devuan mailing lists. I definitely feel I'd get a warmer response in Devuan list, and Devuan is definitively aligned with the goal of "init-freedom" whereas Debian responses to work on init systems is often responded do with hostility or lack of interest. They have gone as far as requiring systemd in some form to always run even on non-systed systems |
| 00:02.11 | tom_work | but the OpenRC package IS in fact still in the Debian repos |
| 00:02.21 | gnarface | yes |
| 00:02.26 | tom_work | although in a form where it's not touched |
| 00:02.30 | tom_work | or worked on |
| 00:02.42 | tom_work | and been marked 'experimental' for an extended period of time |
| 00:02.45 | gnarface | i think you should present to the devuan mailing list first |
| 00:03.11 | gnarface | they might tell you to present it to debian, or they might help do that |
| 00:04.35 | tom_work | sounds like a good idea |
| 00:06.24 | tom_work | How do you think adding openrc-run scripts to non-sid/ceres releases would work? backporting to stable and testing? |
| 00:06.53 | tom_work | not backporting the program itself, just adding an openrc script to stable and testings versions of packages |
| 00:07.34 | tom_work | btw, my /etc/openrc.d idea came from BSD's /etc/rc.d |
| 00:09.24 | gnarface | yes, basically you'd have to backport it |
| 00:09.42 | gnarface | they don't really add packages to the releases after the fact, the way i understand it |
| 00:09.51 | gnarface | so you'd put it in experimental, then unstable |
| 00:09.54 | gnarface | then MAYBE testing |
| 00:10.05 | gnarface | but eventually there'd be a testing freeze, before testing becomes stable |
| 00:10.16 | gnarface | past that point, you can't get anything new put in to stable |
| 00:10.53 | gnarface | but there's always unofficial backports |
| 00:10.55 | tom_work | even if it's just an extra init script that's only ever used if a stable user installs the stable version of openrc? |
| 00:11.43 | gnarface | if it doesn't change the major version of the package and it doesn't fundamentally alter the functionality in a way that breaks other programs dependent on it, you might be able to get them to sneak it in |
| 00:11.59 | gnarface | i don't know much about the specifics of the appeal process |
| 00:12.18 | tom_work | >doesn't change the major version of the package and it doesn't fundamentally alter the functionality |
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| 00:13.07 | tom_work | yes this, for stable and testing I only want to offer the ability to use openrc natively in a stable server with stable package versions without having to wait for two more releases |
| 00:13.53 | tom_work | not changing the stable programs in any way. just adding a file for the program in /etc/openrc.d |
| 00:14.32 | gnarface | yea if you're just changing a file in the package, it might fly, i don't know for sure though |
| 00:14.42 | tom_work | k |
| 00:16.17 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@c-174-52-60-165.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:16.17 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | D1conf: #devuan-conf https://devuan.org/d1conf | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | You may need to auth to NickServ |
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| 02:56.02 | systemdlete | WARNING: Kernel Errors Present |
| 02:56.02 | systemdlete | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:56.48 | systemdlete | All of a sudden, too. This is after 29 days of uptime on Ascii. Why would this SUDDENLY show up in my logs? |
| 02:57.04 | systemdlete | I haven't rebooted or changed partitioning in months. |
| 02:57.31 | systemdlete | (It's a raid1 device with two physical hard disks) |
| 02:59.32 | systemdlete | nvm!!! |
| 02:59.55 | systemdlete | This was a message for a usb stick (I forgot that I had inserted that momentarily) |
| 03:00.19 | systemdlete | The stick has adelie linux on it, so I will ask them about it. |
| 03:00.46 | systemdlete | (Be nice, though, if the error message mentioned WHICH device it was squawking about!) |
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| 04:15.31 | tom_ | I am trying to work on resolving https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=921151 in Devuan ASCII but I keep running into issues trying to backport mariadb 10.3.X from beowulf into ascii |
| 04:16.08 | tom_ | specifically, apt source -t beowulf mariadb-client doesn't work but apt source -t testing mariadb-client does |
| 04:16.52 | tom_ | however when I actually go ahead and try to build, it looks as if I might have gotten the Debian buster instead of Devuan beowulf source because the entire build fails with the following error |
| 04:17.19 | tom_ | # Copy systemd files to a location available for dh_installinit |
| 04:17.19 | tom_ | cp builddir/support-files/mariadb.service debian/mariadb-server-10.3.mariadb.service |
| 04:17.19 | tom_ | cp: cannot stat 'builddir/support-files/mariadb.service': No such file or directory |
| 04:18.07 | tom_ | Did I somehow grab Debian sources on my Devuan system or is mariadb-client on beowulf not de-systemdifed yet? |
| 04:18.36 | tom_ | or am I not building this package with the proper parameters |
| 04:19.47 | tom_ | also, Is there a way to speed of compilations? Is dpkg-buildpkg ccache aware? I'm building this package on a little 1.3Ghz Intel Core2 Duo and to get to this point it literally takes all day |
| 04:20.47 | tom_ | the sources I am working with are specifically mariadb-10.3-10.3.15 |
| 04:22.26 | tom_ | I assume when I ran apt source -t testing on my Devuan ASCII system it grabbed the sources from deb-src http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged beowulf main contrib non-free ? |
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| 04:27.08 | tom_ | I assume it's https://pkginfo.devuan.org/stage/beowulf/beowulf/mariadb-client_10.3.15-1.html right? anybody have an idea what is going on here? |
| 04:27.22 | rrq | with "-t testing" it'd probably use your "testing" source.list line |
| 04:27.57 | tom_ | rrq, I don't have testing anywhere in my sources.list |
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| 04:32.35 | rrq | mmm my "apt-cache policy mariadb-server-10.3" suggests the beowulf package is directly from buster |
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| 04:43.10 | golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/cgi-bin/d1pkgweb-query?search=mariadb-client&release=any |
| 04:43.56 | golinux | All packages appear to be from Debian. |
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| 04:59.24 | rahalver | Just new to Devuan. Have some startup questions. |
| 05:03.57 | rahalver | I am used to xubuntu. I am trying to learn how to get internet connection, update, apt-get install. |
| 05:09.32 | rahalver | I know patience is good. just wondering if I am in the right place.. |
| 05:10.34 | Jjp137 | yea this is the right place; just ask your questions and stay in the channel :) |
| 05:16.40 | rahalver | Cool. Just put Devuan on Apple. Re-doing now, since I realize probably 64 bit. lscpu declares that it is 32-bit, 64-bit. assume part of my problem was that I had installed 32 bit. |
| 05:18.05 | rahalver | (expecting high-5 for doing that to an Apple, and direction if that means 32 or 64 bit are both okay to use.) |
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| 05:36.42 | gnarface | rahalver: you want the 64-bit install because you can still run 32-bit software in it. some people like to still have a purely 32-bit system, but there are very few practical reasons to do that |
| 05:36.47 | rahalver | When I try the LIVE version of 64 bit, it seems to hang up on: ... DRM] MM: using CRYPT of buffer copies |
| 05:37.03 | gnarface | how long did you let it wait? |
| 05:39.08 | tom_ | rrq, golinux Do you know how the systemd-stuff was stripped out from mariadb-client on ASCII? Perhaps I could take those patches and apply them to beowulf |
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| 05:39.21 | gnarface | rahalver: remove "quiet" from the kernel command-line and see if that gives you any better information. i think you might need some other kernel options though |
| 05:40.16 | tom_ | is it just a simple file(s) in the patch/ directory or is it a bit more involved? |
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| 06:02.05 | tom_ | hmm |
| 06:02.33 | rrq | not sure if it was, even, since the ascii version is 10.1.38-0+deb9u1 |
| 06:02.45 | tom_ | I guess I will have to wait for some help fixing beowulf's mariadb |
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| 06:07.16 | tom_ | http://dpaste.com/078Z2SK |
| 06:10.48 | tom_ | This doesn't look like a hard error, it looks like the package is already successfully built (well the binaries) but it's failing because systemd-specific folders do not exist |
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| 06:20.42 | rahalver | live iso seems to not "work" on my computer. regular version of 1.0.0 seems to be going forward nicely, for install. |
| 06:25.58 | rahalver | The "select and install software" part failed... seems important to have that, trying again, but with no xfce |
| 06:30.20 | gnarface | maybe it failed due to missing network connection? |
| 06:32.26 | rahalver | maybe. but I told it not to do network for now. |
| 06:33.33 | rahalver | I don't know how to get the network going... i use hotspot here overseas, and not sure how that would work, as it needs password. |
| 06:36.52 | buZz | just dont select any software? |
| 06:36.58 | buZz | you can also re-run tasksel later |
| 06:37.16 | buZz | >sudo tasksel |
| 06:37.46 | buZz | but you'd need some wifi tools i guess |
| 06:37.46 | rahalver | Ok.Might it work to somehow plug my phone usb right into the computer next time? |
| 06:38.02 | buZz | i dont know what your phone does on usb |
| 06:38.08 | buZz | is that a network card? |
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| 06:38.34 | rahalver | I have wireless adapter, but how will computer know my password? |
| 06:39.03 | buZz | normally for wifi you use something like wicd or wpa_cli to enter connection details |
| 06:40.22 | rahalver | hm... maybe need ipa address. wasn't sure how to find it at the time. |
| 06:41.58 | buZz | dhcp clients will get the ip address |
| 06:42.21 | rahalver | installation seems okay this time |
| 06:42.49 | rahalver | dhcp clients? |
| 06:43.14 | rahalver | high 5 -- success. |
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| 06:46.38 | buZz | :) yay |
| 06:47.01 | buZz | yes, hotspots hand out IP addresses to their users with dhcp servers |
| 06:47.14 | buZz | the clients negotiate with that to get a ip |
| 06:50.35 | rahalver | i thought the ipa was for the computer where I am installing distro. |
| 06:51.34 | rahalver | I am guessing i could figure that out when computer is working. but i was doing an installation at the time. |
| 06:52.38 | rahalver | by the way, after starting up computer again, with installation complete, I am stuck at "Waiting for /dev to be fully populated..." |
| 06:53.27 | rahalver | seems 10 minutes |
| 06:53.56 | gnarface | weird |
| 06:54.12 | gnarface | was that a install from live cd or from netinstall image? |
| 06:55.33 | rahalver | normal .iso, off CD; did same for 32 bit version |
| 06:55.49 | rahalver | maybe related to my iMac |
| 06:56.17 | gnarface | yea it might still need some additional kernel command-line options set |
| 06:56.25 | gnarface | stuff like noacpi noapic nolapic |
| 06:57.00 | rahalver | I went around it by rebooting, then hitting "e" and adding nomodeset to quiet. |
| 06:57.13 | gnarface | ah, and then it works? |
| 06:57.25 | rahalver | will try now.. |
| 07:02.45 | rahalver | worked. but how can I make that permanent, so i don't need to do every time?? |
| 07:03.25 | buZz | edit grub.conf in /boot/grub |
| 07:04.43 | rahalver | Can you give me a slight nudge to get me going in the right direction to do that? |
| 07:05.01 | buZz | sudo nano -w /boot/grub/grub.cfg |
| 07:05.21 | buZz | oh wait :P > # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE |
| 07:05.32 | gnarface | it is /etc/defaults/grub |
| 07:05.38 | buZz | yeah |
| 07:05.41 | buZz | tnx gnarface |
| 07:05.51 | gnarface | or actually /etc/default/grub i mean, sorry |
| 07:05.59 | buZz | sudo nano -w /etc/default/grub |
| 07:08.01 | rahalver | feeling novice. when I do sudo anything it says command not found. also tried root |
| 07:08.14 | buZz | oh , yeah, sudo isnt installed by default |
| 07:08.19 | buZz | apt install sudo , as root :) |
| 07:08.32 | buZz | su - , to change to root from a normal user |
| 07:09.04 | rahalver | cool that worked |
| 07:09.09 | buZz | \o/ |
| 07:09.34 | buZz | you dont specifically need sudo now, when you are root already , you can do nano directly on those files |
| 07:12.47 | rahalver | okay. so do i just type nomodeset after quiet? |
| 07:13.16 | rahalver | within quotes. I am just quessing |
| 07:13.27 | rahalver | guessing |
| 07:16.06 | gnarface | yes, within the quotes that are there. the order of the options does not matter. |
| 07:16.54 | gnarface | and you probably don't want quiet, if you want to see what is going on during boot |
| 07:17.10 | rahalver | erase quiet |
| 07:17.17 | rahalver | how to i save it? |
| 07:17.37 | gnarface | the instructions for nano should be printed along the bottom of the screen... |
| 07:18.12 | rahalver | it has an up arrow and X. Does that mean Fn or ctrl or alt? |
| 07:18.28 | gnarface | ^ is a carrot, not an up-arrow |
| 07:18.30 | rahalver | novie |
| 07:18.32 | gnarface | and it means ctrl |
| 07:18.44 | rahalver | novice. |
| 07:18.55 | rahalver | so what does carrot mean? |
| 07:19.19 | gnarface | it doesn't matter. it's being used out of context here, but it is a common convention |
| 07:20.06 | Jjp137 | caret* btw |
| 07:20.16 | gnarface | heh, thanks |
| 07:20.16 | rahalver | okay. what should I do to get the X activated??? |
| 07:20.30 | buZz | rahalver: hold ctrl , press X |
| 07:20.34 | buZz | oh, apples |
| 07:20.43 | rahalver | thanks |
| 07:20.51 | buZz | hold that clover symbol icon on your keyboard and press X |
| 07:21.21 | gnarface | it might be mapped to the apple key, i'm not sure |
| 07:21.33 | buZz | gnarface: i think apple stopped doing that key since 10 years now |
| 07:21.40 | rahalver | didn't work |
| 07:21.42 | buZz | after years of ridicule about fruit on their keyboards :D |
| 07:21.48 | buZz | rahalver: why not |
| 07:21.53 | gnarface | are you sure buZz? |
| 07:22.22 | buZz | gnarface: see; https://live.staticflickr.com/2123/1656092120_e09bd3d8a0_z.jpg |
| 07:22.25 | buZz | apple-less |
| 07:22.27 | rahalver | the clover command key doesn't do anything |
| 07:22.39 | buZz | oh huh |
| 07:22.44 | Jjp137 | try Ctrl+X then I guess |
| 07:22.48 | buZz | ok weird, use ctrl then |
| 07:22.52 | rahalver | just types x |
| 07:22.57 | r3boot | [x] crap keyboard found |
| 07:22.59 | buZz | i never saw a 'ctrl' key on a apple keyboard |
| 07:23.01 | gnarface | apple+x? |
| 07:23.28 | buZz | guess that since they now sell x86 machines they needed ctrl for ctrl-alt-del ? :P |
| 07:24.13 | rahalver | control x |
| 07:24.59 | rahalver | novice just taught you all... :) |
| 07:25.59 | rahalver | ok... now, how to reboot from terminal. There is no option to power off machine, without holding back button in. |
| 07:26.10 | tom_ | Are you sure your not talking about the META key? |
| 07:26.38 | tom_ | That's often what Microsoft calls the Windows Key |
| 07:26.38 | rahalver | cool reboot worked via terminal |
| 07:27.43 | tom_ | it's actually called the meta and only exists on PS/2 keyboards. Amiga, UNIX, VMS, and AS/200 keyboards do not have a meta key |
| 07:28.23 | buZz | tom_: its a apple computer |
| 07:28.46 | tom_ | in fact my keyboard (NortGate OmniKey Ultra Rev2) which is compatible with AT, Amiga, Atari, and PS/2 does not have a meta key |
| 07:28.53 | r3boot | tom_: actually, I am typing on a HHKB pro type2s atm, which is a direct Sun Type 3 descendent, and that most definetely has a functional meta key :P |
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| 07:29.08 | tom_ | It has an 'omni' key but it's not mapped to then same scan code in PS/2 mode |
| 07:29.12 | rahalver | I never bought an apple |
| 07:29.24 | buZz | 08:55:49 < rahalver> maybe related to my iMac |
| 07:29.28 | buZz | arent those by apple? |
| 07:29.36 | rahalver | yesss |
| 07:29.46 | rahalver | ye$$$ |
| 07:30.10 | rahalver | stuck at setting preliminar keymap... |
| 07:35.48 | tom_ | https://i.pinimg.com/736x/cd/28/f7/cd28f7812416ed99ddf12099ca7f8384.jpg AS/400 keyboard layout as 24 function keys |
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| 07:36.48 | buZz | higher resolution as400 keyboard http://www.9999hp.net/keyboard/temp/1389260-big.jpg |
| 07:37.24 | buZz | just doubt anyone has one of these on a devuan machine ;) but i guess its doable |
| 07:37.39 | tom_ | and because some of those function keys are on the left it makes it super convenient using make nconfig to compile the linux kernel |
| 07:38.01 | buZz | the 'play' and 'record' buttons? |
| 07:38.08 | buZz | what do they do in the ncurses config? |
| 07:38.14 | tom_ | buZz, actually I have something real similar |
| 07:38.29 | r3boot | hmm, I need one of those keyboards ... |
| 07:38.49 | tom_ | http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-DY_Ft40CR6w/UURyifaP3kI/AAAAAAAAA_w/GxppCeKojZc/s1600/omni-key-ultra.jpg |
| 07:39.02 | buZz | yeah thats a different layout |
| 07:39.14 | tom_ | this is the first revision |
| 07:39.19 | tom_ | I have the second revision |
| 07:39.22 | buZz | on the as400 one the ones on the left arent function keys like F1-F24 on the top |
| 07:40.00 | buZz | what a annoying position for insert and delete :) |
| 07:40.10 | tom_ | I see |
| 07:40.27 | MinceR | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IBM_Model_F_122.png |
| 07:40.34 | tom_ | you get used to it |
| 07:40.51 | tom_ | the biggest jar is the location of the backslash |
| 07:41.20 | tom_ | the inset and delete I actually find a bit more ergonomic |
| 07:42.52 | buZz | MinceR: poor shift key |
| 07:42.57 | buZz | and missing < key aswell |
| 07:43.08 | buZz | oh, also missing a ton more keys |
| 07:43.08 | buZz | sad |
| 07:43.21 | rahalver | so... i had to add nomodeset again, where it said quiet. |
| 07:43.23 | MinceR | well, it's an ancient layout |
| 07:43.36 | buZz | MinceR: ancient stuff can still get damaged ;) |
| 07:43.40 | buZz | -or- taken care of better |
| 07:43.51 | buZz | rahalver: you didnt save it earlier? |
| 07:44.31 | buZz | did you read the top line on /etc/default/grub ? it says this : |
| 07:44.32 | buZz | # If you change this file, run 'update-grub' afterwards to update |
| 07:44.43 | buZz | did you do that? :) |
| 07:44.55 | rahalver | maybe back to that later... how can i turn off my machine without holding in power button? Normal Applic Menu, Logout doesnt give the option |
| 07:45.06 | buZz | rahalver: type 'poweroff' |
| 07:45.15 | buZz | :) |
| 07:45.22 | rahalver | sorry. I need to do that. |
| 07:45.30 | buZz | its probably called 'shutdown' in your click menu? |
| 07:45.40 | tom_ | You would not believe it but my omnikey was new-old stock never been opened from the box 1993 |
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| 07:45.50 | buZz | i can believe it |
| 07:46.05 | buZz | i've seen model m's like that aswell |
| 07:46.15 | tom_ | northgate computers doesn't exist anymore. while they did exist history says most people bought them just for their keyboards alone for use on other keyboards |
| 07:46.25 | rahalver | click menu shutdown is in light gray, not clickable |
| 07:46.33 | tom_ | and that's why their keyboards implement so many protocols configurable via dip switches |
| 07:46.47 | buZz | rahalver: weird, which window manager are you running? |
| 07:47.12 | buZz | oh |
| 07:47.27 | buZz | maybe because of the noacpi that you added, it can now no longer manage the power |
| 07:47.38 | buZz | non default computers do tend to be a bit annoying to use |
| 07:49.41 | rahalver | buzz and/or gnarface, can I connect to you privately? |
| 07:49.52 | buZz | i'd prefer you dont |
| 07:50.14 | rahalver | ok. get lost here in all the chat |
| 07:50.32 | rahalver | Thanks |
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| 07:53.36 | rahalver | Good news. update-grub worked! |
| 07:54.07 | rahalver | is terminal only choice for shut down? |
| 07:54.43 | rahalver | maybe another alternate, like key combo. |
| 07:55.39 | buZz | you can configure millions of things to run that command for you |
| 07:56.00 | buZz | -normally- window managers do that for you , if yours doesnt , you may want to read its documentation |
| 07:56.26 | buZz | in contrast to osx/windows, most linux software comes with documentation , its usually in /usr/share/doc/ |
| 07:56.51 | rahalver | okay. i will research. my app menu only allows for log out |
| 07:57.15 | rahalver | restart and shut down are grayed out |
| 08:05.11 | fsmithred | policykit-1-gnome missing? |
| 08:06.06 | fsmithred | goes back to sleep |
| 08:08.27 | rahalver | Gnarface... should i still look into this if i am able to start up without previous problem? "yea it might still need some additional kernel command-line options setstuff like noacpi noapic nolapic" |
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| 08:12.49 | gnarface | rahalver: no, forget it |
| 08:13.53 | rahalver | ok. ran apt-get install libreoffice didnt work |
| 08:14.22 | rahalver | also looking for dvd player recommendation |
| 08:18.03 | gnarface | your /etc/apt/source.list needs to be correct, and your network connection needs to be up... |
| 08:18.43 | gnarface | and you need to remember to run apt-get update first |
| 08:22.51 | rahalver | okay. lots of howework. for now, it is strange to have my wife type su -, the poweroff. looking for another option. |
| 08:23.12 | rahalver | its a mac problem i guess |
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| 08:51.54 | rahalver | I am back. I have an imac, now, thankfully, with only Devuan as the OS. Problem: When I want to poweroff, it wont let me with method 1 = Application Menu, then Logout, and no shut down option is clickable (just gray). method 2 - Command + Option + Control + Eject doesn't do anything. Method 3 needs me to be root, which is strange for having wi |
| 08:51.55 | rahalver | fe and kids use it this way. |
| 08:53.21 | gnarface | rahalver: someone suggested you try adding policykit-1-gnome |
| 08:53.40 | gnarface | that was a suggestion directed at this exact problem |
| 08:54.15 | gnarface | i don't know if that's the actual solution, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was that or some similar package missing |
| 08:54.25 | rahalver | i will try. I was off internet for a few minutes, so missed the info |
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| 08:59.05 | rahalver | So.. first, how to get on internet. web browser does nothing, and internet does not have a wicd network adapter |
| 08:59.32 | rahalver | wicd network manager |
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| 09:07.30 | rahalver | How did anyone else get on internet, with wireless? |
| 09:08.35 | buZz | there's several different methods ; https://wiki.debian.org/WiFi/HowToUse |
| 09:10.27 | gnarface | rahalver: sometimes it is easier to use regular ethernet first to get the wireless set up |
| 09:10.36 | gnarface | (usually actually) |
| 09:23.32 | rahalver | i see. i have none. i can go over to a friends house, maybe, but it seems there should be a way. |
| 09:25.01 | rahalver | also, iwconfig doesn't work. command not found.. i tried the wiki rec from buzz. not working so far. |
| 09:27.50 | buZz | sounds like you installed too minimal a version of devuan |
| 09:32.27 | rahalver | it is the devuan jessie 1.0.0 amd64 iso |
| 09:33.11 | rahalver | it seems like others with wireless connection should have a way.. |
| 09:33.52 | rahalver | I have a pqi pen someone gave me. i can try to figure out how to make ethernet from it. |
| 09:34.55 | buZz | rahalver: which iso? |
| 09:35.05 | buZz | there's many different amd64 jessie isos |
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| 09:38.29 | rahalver | thanks buzz. you have been very helpful. time for supper.. |
| 09:39.45 | buZz | welcome and bon appetit |
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| 10:09.08 | rahalver | If I get an internet connection... Can I do some kind of an update or upgrade to get missing or additional packages that were missing on my iso? |
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| 11:38.28 | djph | r3boot: yes |
| 11:38.41 | djph | ...oops |
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| 15:04.08 | r3boot | djph: hmm? what did I fuck up this time? :P |
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| 15:37.07 | djph | r3boot: nah, it was me - didnt doublecheck the tab-complete |
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| 20:31.02 | xrogaan | We're not going to get current xfce4 4.14 until next debian stable, that is crazy. |
| 20:32.26 | xrogaan | 4 years old software, but new one didn't release on time so screw the user right? |
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| 20:56.08 | gnarface | xrogaan: your mentality is flawed. the point of not rushing in a new version is to not screw the user. |
| 20:56.28 | gnarface | stop being a version fetishist |
| 20:56.58 | gnarface | change inherently promotes instability |
| 20:57.23 | gnarface | it's not a valid goal in and of itself |
| 20:57.51 | gnarface | they will still backport all the important security fixes |
| 20:58.28 | gnarface | besides, someone will probably put it in backports for you anyway |
| 20:58.52 | gnarface | so just, you know. try to find something worthy to be angry about |
| 20:59.15 | fsmithred | I heard that 4.14 looks like a phone |
| 20:59.34 | fsmithred | all gtk3 |
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| 21:07.11 | xrogaan | gnarface: I don't mean to get it right away, but before we get another stable version of xfce |
| 21:12.10 | drawkula | has switching to sawfish on the to do list... |
| 21:13.11 | drawkula | but the list is long and full of dark energy... |
| 21:13.42 | drawkula | inb late debian6 days I played with sawfish and it was fun |
| 21:13.46 | drawkula | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:21.29 | tom_work | Debian sarge <3 |
| 21:22.02 | drawkula | was very happy with deb6... it was stable like a tank |
| 21:22.15 | drawkula | or like woody |
| 21:22.17 | drawkula | :-Ã |
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