IRC log for #devuan on 20190704

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00:16.43*** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | D1conf: #devuan-conf https://devuan.org/d1conf | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | You may need to auth to NickServ
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07:41.21roo^yopened BlueTooth Manager in Refracta, tried Pairing feature "Pairing in progress...". Tried (unsucessfully) closing this pairing window. Rebooting will remove it. Logging off & on may too. Is there a more convenient way? ('killall -9 pairing' & 'killall -9 bluetooth' doesn't work) :P
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07:58.00gnarfaceroo^y: try alt+rightclick -> kill
07:58.47gnarface(some window managers have a way to kill windows literally, and it's usually somewhere in the alt+rightclick menu
07:58.58gnarface)
08:01.46roo^ythx for reply. rightclick doesn't work while holding down alt. Thunar file system on XFDE i think..
08:03.12onefangSometimes it's a right click on the window border, sometimes it's the "windows" key instead of alt.
08:03.35onefangOr a click on the windows icon.
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08:17.14roo^ycan't bring up a way to kill zombie window. i guess logging out is the equivalent to killing xorg ^which goes against what i was avoiding :P
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09:37.03FatPhilit's a shame that Toy Story 4 wasn't released earlier, as the devuan distro after jessie could have been called "forkie".
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09:37.42onefanglol
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10:19.30surrounderhaha
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10:53.02cosurgiwent creazy.
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11:41.17cosurgisoylentnews.org rulezzz !
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12:03.55FatPhilhi5's cosurgi
12:04.14FatPhilDoes rsync really work this way: -I, --ignore-times          don't skip files that match size and time
12:05.23FatPhilactually, I have no idea what rsync is doing with my backups, I'm thrashing with random switches like a lunatic presently
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12:33.07FatPhilwrites a script to fudge timestamps on files to make it appear that cp -p was done rather than just cp.
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12:43.41cosurgiFatPhil: hi5 ! :)
12:43.52cosurgiFatPhil: I'm using rsnapshot for backups.
12:44.11cosurgiand rsync too. Sometimes inside rsnapshot, sometimes outside.
12:46.06cosurgiI sometimes do this: time rsync -avPcH --delete --omit-dir-times --no-owner --exclude='.*.swp' --exclude='*pp.gch' --exclude='.~lock.*#' --exclude='.*.swo' --delete-excluded --dry-run porzadek@absurd:/home/…/ /home/…/
12:46.10cosurgiFatPhil: seems to work
12:46.39cosurgi(when without --dry-run, that is :)
12:48.33cosurgisometimes I do this without -ccH
12:48.37cosurgisometimes I do this without -cH
12:49.34cosurgiin general idea is that I have same stuff on PC and laptop. While preserving intact dotfiles git history, and home documents git history (two separate git repos)
12:50.20cosurgihttps://gitlab.com/cosurgi/zsh-git-cal-status-cpp
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13:11.26FatPhilcosurgi: the problem is that this scrappy NAS seems to not permit full access to all the attributes a unix user would expect, at least over NFS. So the *source* files (as restored from a backup of a retired machine) were "wrong".
13:11.43FatPhilI think --omit-dir-times will be a useful one to remember
13:12.40FatPhilgonna try sshfs instead, and see if that gives me raw access to all the bits
13:13.23FatPhilIt's only for streaming music/vidz, so overheads don't matter much.
13:13.55cosurgiI see.
13:14.04FatPhilSheeeeit - this crazy NAS doesn't have /bin/passwd on it, and has a hilariously weak root password.
13:14.21FatPhilAnd I want it hanging off the internet so it can be shared between home and office
13:14.22cosurgifor streaming I use (an almost default config of) mindlna server
13:14.31cosurgiwhoops.
13:15.25FatPhilI guess I could vi /etc/passwd and paste a copied line from a known passwd file?
13:15.34cosurgi*minidlna
13:15.51cosurgiyeah. I suppose this is worth a try.
13:16.20cosurgiif file doesn't exist though, there is no indication that it will be used though....
13:17.14cosurgibut anyway putting it connected to internet is asking for trouble. Better configure some local openvpn network and put this behind a router or something....
13:17.53drawkulano /etc/shadow too?
13:20.13FatPhilI did mean shadow, but I think this nas is doing spoooky shit that makes normal unix-think fail
13:20.44FatPhil(hence lack of /bin/passwd)
13:21.51FatPhilit's been on the internet for 6 months! sheesh.
13:22.34cosurgiit's possible that all your PCs that you have at home are rooted now.
13:23.00cosurgiwith this or that rootkit.
13:26.18FatPhilpw now changed to hunter2 - *phew!*
13:27.06cosurgicongrats! :)
13:27.12cosurgitry hunter3 next time ;)
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13:57.05enycHrrm
13:57.20enycmxlinux claim  systemd-shim  isn't supported in buster versions etc.
13:58.01enycwhats' going on with systemd  related issues?
13:58.04enycuerrm
13:58.08enycdevuan related issues for buster?
13:59.54Centurion_Danenyc: nobody is maintaining it in debian, and we never used it in devuan...
14:00.16enycCenturion_Dan: right i see!  I can see its' not on an ASCII system here.
14:00.47enycCenturion_Dan: though it doesne raise the question, if mainiting systemd-shim would be better than carrying mre and more patches to more and more programs, hrrm
14:01.15enycIn any case, what is the usability of  Devuan  ascii+1  now?
14:01.49enycuerr Beowulf apparently
14:02.26Centurion_Danwe have elogind that does most of the logind stuff where it's needed, and even provides a ABI compatible replacement of libsystemd0 (libelogind0)
14:02.52enycOoOooooOooo didn't know that
14:03.44Centurion_Danenyc: Beowulf is in pretty good shape.  Most of the changes being worked on now are cosmetic and release oriented.
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14:04.50enycCenturion_Dan: hrrm... so should be more releasable much more quickly  than ascii?
14:05.28enyci got the impression there were previously quite a lot of sticking points over desktop infrastructure, logind, usb mounting, all of that
14:07.05Centurion_Danyes, jessie was really hard, ascii was hard and beowulf is fairly easy... mostly because we know what we're doing, and also because the hard work has been done.
14:07.27Centurion_Dan.. in the previous res
14:07.42enycright, yes!
14:08.48Centurion_Dan*releases.  So it's often just updating the packages to the latest versions and re-building them.  Debian have themselves unwound some of the insanity, and we've just got better at it ;-)
14:09.17enyc"unwound some of the insanity,"  ??
14:10.33enycNot sure *exactly* what you mean
14:14.26Centurion_Danthere was some very anti sysvinit pro-systemd fanbois that went over the top back when Debian adopted systemd, and a few of them went overboard to make enforce systemd as the only way.  It was probably by far more payback for the init wars on debian-devel then an explicit attempt to make life hard for Devuan, but it was insanity...
14:16.46Centurion_Dansince that time the tensions have reduced somewhat and we've even had some of our devs collaborate on sysvinit and other packages in Debian, and others within Debian have toned down and work has been done to make Debian easier to use with other inits then in the days of Jessie.
14:17.41Centurion_Dananyway sleep time.. o/
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14:46.44FatPhilI'm having a spot of bother using an identity file for ssh authentication. -vvv doesn't tell me anything useful (receive packet: type 51???), and it falls back onto password.
14:50.59FatPhilI installed the key using ssh-copy-id, and I can see that authorised_keys now contains the public key.
14:52.20FatPhilTo be honest, with this scrappy nas, where .ssh is *inside* the exported filesystem!!?!?, it's probably a braindead sshd that doesn't know what it's doing.
14:53.42onefangSo this is a Not Absolutely Secure box?
14:54.19FatPhilalmost secure, now it's protected by hunter2!
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15:07.41FatPhilwoh! username's .ssh directory for the authorised key wasn't put under ~username/ !!!??!?
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15:07.58FatPhilproprietory linux distros, not even once...
15:08.17FatPhilwonders if he can put devuan on his NAS...
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15:08.35onefangI was just about to suggest that.  lol
15:09.10r3bootThe nas, doesnt that run dropbear icm a read-only filesystem or something (only allowing you to write in, say, /var)
15:09.14r3boot+?
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15:11.10FatPhilI've ssh'ed into it as root, not using any web-clicky abomination
15:11.40FatPhilit's clearly dodgy, as when I set the user password, it changes the root password too!
15:11.56FatPhilyou have to use a tool, there's no /bin/passwd
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15:12.39r3bootVery nice :) Now how to actually boot something else on there :P
15:13.37gnarfaceSUBSYSTEM=="hidraw", KERNEL=="hidraw*", ACTION=="add", ATTRS{idVendor}=="1e7d", ATTRS{idProduct}=="2e23", GROUP="roccat", MODE="0660"
15:14.03gnarfacecan anyone see anything obviously wrong with this udev rule that would make it not take effect at boot but work if the mouse is hotplugged after boot?
15:14.25r3bootudev gets called after the dev is added?
15:14.42gnarfacei'm trying to debug a change in behavior after updating ceres
15:14.48gnarfaceit used to work
15:15.19gnarfacei also noticed a few extra modules no longer auto-load, have to be added manually, wondering if that's related
15:15.33FatPhilr3boot: I was thinking of yanking the HD, installing devuan using another box, and then plugging it back in. Alas I think it's actually booting from firmware that I can't modify
15:16.00r3bootI am pretty sure that's actually the case FatPhil .. And unless you find (eg) some jtag header, you will likely be SoL.
15:16.16r3bootDoes it netboot?
15:18.19FatPhili don't think so, it's some kind of synology thing, not investigated it too closely, as it brings pain each time I touch it.
15:18.52FatPhilarmv5tel GNU/Linux synology_88f6281_110j
15:20.34FatPhilgoogoo not helpful, only docs about how to netboot from the NAS
15:20.55Akuliis this a malware issue or something else?
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15:22.32r3bootFatPhil: https://www.coderblog.in/2019/03/how-to-install-debian-on-synology-nas/ (1st hit on google, s/debian/devuan/ and see how far you get)
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15:25.23FatPhilr3boot: tab opened, but now heading to a pub for a beer launch
15:25.49FatPhilproud member of CANRA - the Campaign for Neuron Rotting Ale
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17:28.42DocScrutinizer05Rigol DS1xxxZ in *XY* mode - I wonder if that joke is useful for *anything* at all :-/  http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20190704_008.jpg ff to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20190704_014.jpg (XT reference)
17:30.12DocScrutinizer05ooops sorry, wrong chan
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23:46.52ksx4systemlong time no see everyone
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