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| 00:23.49 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | D1conf: #devuan-conf https://devuan.org/d1conf | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ | You may need to auth to NickServ |
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| 01:11.09 | OneManHateGroup | I'm desparately trying to get my monitors to stretch instead of mirroring. Ready with pastebin for outputs. |
| 01:13.07 | OneManHateGroup | https://pastebin.com/HjKM182s |
| 01:13.25 | OneManHateGroup | that's "lshw -c video" |
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| 01:14.55 | plasma41 | OneManHateGroup: What desktop environment are you using? In Xfce, multi-monitor settings can be manipulated with the xfce4-display-settings program. |
| 01:14.56 | OneManHateGroup | Sorry, is this even the correct room for an issue concerning getting multiple monitors to work? |
| 01:15.01 | OneManHateGroup | Xfce |
| 01:15.22 | OneManHateGroup | aight... lemme see if I got that one |
| 01:16.47 | plasma41 | OneManHateGroup: If you don't, install the xfce4-settings package to get it. |
| 01:21.13 | OneManHateGroup | ok |
| 01:21.17 | OneManHateGroup | brb |
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| 01:24.08 | minty | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:26.07 | plasma41 | minty: What desktop environment were you using? |
| 01:26.18 | minty | mate |
| 01:27.17 | minty | plasma41: I tried startx but no joy... |
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| 01:27.48 | plasma41 | minty: try running tasksel as root and select the MATE option. |
| 01:28.13 | minty | plasma41: ok brb |
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| 01:37.05 | plasma41 | afk. mention my nick to get my attention |
| 01:39.01 | minty | plasma41: "Unable to connect to server: connection refused" |
| 01:39.28 | OneManHateGroup | plasma - my display settings won't see both monitors |
| 01:40.44 | OneManHateGroup | @plasma41 Is there a way to re initiate the X so that it detects monitors again? |
| 01:41.04 | minty | plasma41: oops! Xserver ^^^ |
| 01:41.55 | OneManHateGroup | It's not bad, I just need to get multiple monitors going. |
| 01:47.40 | plasma41 | minty: What program gave that output? |
| 01:49.54 | plasma41 | OneManHateGroup: Try rebooting. (I know there's got to be a better way to do it, but I don't know it offhand) Make sure the video cable are properly connected. |
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| 02:02.24 | OneManHateGroup | plasma41 -- That is a nogo |
| 02:02.36 | plasma41 | drat |
| 02:02.45 | fsmithred | OneManHateGroup, try lxrandr |
| 02:02.52 | OneManHateGroup | still mirrored with crappy resoluvioun |
| 02:02.55 | OneManHateGroup | ok |
| 02:03.16 | plasma41 | afk, back in ~20 |
| 02:03.23 | fsmithred | pretty sure xfce display settings don't handle dual monitors in ascii |
| 02:03.29 | golinux | fsmithred: You beat me yo it. |
| 02:03.37 | fsmithred | it does work in beowulf, so you have that to look forward to |
| 02:04.02 | fsmithred | (posted from monitor #2) |
| 02:04.27 | OneManHateGroup | lxrandr only sees one monitor also |
| 02:04.31 | golinux | That questionwas asked on the forum today also |
| 02:04.32 | fsmithred | ??? |
| 02:05.03 | fsmithred | oh, bad resolution might mean that you need to specify the driver |
| 02:05.07 | fsmithred | in xorg.con |
| 02:05.08 | fsmithred | f |
| 02:05.22 | fsmithred | what vid card do you have? |
| 02:05.53 | fsmithred | or you might need to install firmware |
| 02:06.02 | OneManHateGroup | intel |
| 02:06.21 | brocashelm | when was the last public release of devuan? and, how is progress on beowulf? |
| 02:06.27 | OneManHateGroup | I think it might be a problem with myasrock board |
| 02:06.36 | fsmithred | make sure xserver-xorg-video-intel is installed |
| 02:06.43 | OneManHateGroup | aight |
| 02:07.10 | fsmithred | devuan ascii was released a year ago |
| 02:07.45 | fsmithred | beowulf is coming along. Some of the major desktop stuff is working (policykit, elogind, eudev) |
| 02:08.01 | brocashelm | cool. i'm going to wait for that one before i make the switch |
| 02:08.20 | fsmithred | what are you switching from? |
| 02:08.24 | brocashelm | mint 18.3 |
| 02:09.25 | fsmithred | if you're thinking of migrating that install to devuan, it might work, but a clean install would be a lot easier. |
| 02:10.01 | brocashelm | i've used devuan before. had random troubles with things like network manager and package conflicts (i was barred from mount permissions for just removing slim) |
| 02:10.15 | brocashelm | didn't feel it was worth it yet |
| 02:10.31 | brocashelm | and i couldn't get the blazing fast mouse acceleration |
| 02:10.42 | fsmithred | my personal choice is to stay away from slim |
| 02:10.54 | brocashelm | it came out of the box and i wanted it gone |
| 02:11.01 | fsmithred | yeah, I know |
| 02:11.07 | brocashelm | i use startx (xfce) |
| 02:11.10 | fsmithred | I will again petition to change that |
| 02:11.54 | fsmithred | ok, so you'll need to either have elogind or xserver-xorg-legacy and set X to run as root. |
| 02:12.15 | fsmithred | hm... |
| 02:12.30 | fsmithred | that's A or (b and c) |
| 02:13.09 | fsmithred | it's explained in the ascii release notes |
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| 02:36.50 | Xenguy | Anyone know if the recent security updates for ssl and firefox will come straight through, or need to be devuanized? |
| 02:37.26 | Xenguy | *openssl |
| 02:37.50 | Xenguy | I'm assuming straight down the pipe |
| 02:38.55 | fsmithred | right. we don't mess with those. |
| 02:42.43 | Xenguy | Thanks, I keep adjusting my sources.list based on tips I see here in this channel |
| 02:44.21 | fsmithred | both pkgmaster and packages are working properly now |
| 02:44.47 | fsmithred | so deb.devuan and auto.mirror should both be good |
| 02:45.18 | fsmithred | there might be a couple of mirrors with some glitches |
| 02:45.36 | fsmithred | you're in US? |
| 02:45.50 | Xenguy | Look like it's currently set to auto.mirror, but I think that is redirecting to something else now. Works fine. |
| 02:46.01 | Xenguy | *Looks |
| 02:46.18 | minty | plasma41: ^^^ program was startx produced "Unable to connect to Xserver: connection refused" |
| 02:46.47 | fsmithred | minty try startx as root |
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| 02:47.13 | minty | tail of /var/log/Xorg.0.log had (EE)s |
| 02:47.20 | fsmithred | if it works I can tell you how to fix it |
| 02:47.30 | minty | fsmithred: I did |
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| 02:47.43 | fsmithred | you got that error as root? |
| 02:47.47 | minty | fsmithred: lol! TKU |
| 02:47.55 | minty | yes |
| 02:48.00 | fsmithred | shit |
| 02:48.08 | minty | or at least sudo |
| 02:48.32 | fsmithred | pretty sure that should work too |
| 02:49.27 | minty | FATAL SERVER ERROR: 204.824 (EE) AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 0 |
| 02:49.53 | fsmithred | did you try tasksel and reinstall mate? |
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| 02:50.31 | minty | fsmithred: Do you mean to uninstal it then reinstal? |
| 02:50.47 | fsmithred | don't need to uninstall |
| 02:51.07 | fsmithred | just run tasksel as root in terminal and check the boxes you want |
| 02:51.27 | minty | Well it's installed + default + Cinnamon |
| 02:51.54 | fsmithred | how did you get cinnamon? |
| 02:52.07 | minty | but when I reboot I keep getting the same (EE) Error? |
| 02:52.42 | minty | fsmithred: I just pressed spacebar on it |
| 02:52.54 | fsmithred | ok, so you have mate and cinnamon installed? |
| 02:53.16 | Xenguy | Yeah, try MATE instead? |
| 02:53.16 | minty | yes but the Xserver keeps refusing to run |
| 02:53.36 | Xenguy | gah |
| 02:53.37 | fsmithred | yes, I understand that you can't get to a desktop |
| 02:53.48 | minty | fsmithred: yes |
| 02:53.59 | fsmithred | you didn't happen to notice what got removed when you upgraded, did you? |
| 02:54.17 | minty | fsmithred: sorry - no |
| 02:54.25 | fsmithred | probably polkit backend crap. I think those desktops might be incompatible. Not sure. |
| 02:55.06 | Xenguy | Broken install, what else can you do? |
| 02:55.49 | plasma41 | minty: I've found the Cinnamon task to be finicky. I couldn't get it to work as-is and replacing lightdm with slim (+ all associated deps) fixed for me. If you don't intend to use Cinnamon, I'd recommend deselecting it in tasksel. |
| 02:56.13 | minty | plasma41: ok tku brb |
| 02:57.01 | fsmithred | yup, mate wants slim and consolekit, cinnamon wants lightdm and elogind |
| 02:57.20 | Xenguy | huh |
| 02:57.23 | fsmithred | consolekit and elogind won't get along with each other |
| 02:59.13 | fsmithred | dpkg -l | egrep "consolekit|policykit|polkit|elogind|libpam" |
| 02:59.30 | fsmithred | then paste the output somewhere |
| 03:04.14 | plasma41 | fsmithred: I don't make any changes to that whole group of packages outside of aptitude. Trying to satisfy all those dependencies and conflicts without aptitude's interactive resolver is a major pain. |
| 03:09.14 | fsmithred | it's much easier to stick to one desktop |
| 03:09.49 | plasma41 | This is currently very true |
| 03:09.59 | fsmithred | and if you do want more than one, it would be easier to install all the parts instead of using the task- packages |
| 03:10.04 | fsmithred | because of dependencies |
| 03:10.12 | plasma41 | Indeed |
| 03:17.43 | fsmithred | minty, you still here? Since you can't paste the output, redirect it to a file, and then that can be sent somewhere we can see it. |
| 03:23.37 | minty | fsmithred: I found the Error online at https://wiki.x.org & I am going to try & modify xorg.conf? |
| 03:26.10 | minty | https://wiki.x.org/wiki/FAQErrorMessages/#index3h2 AddScreen/ScreenInit |
| 03:27.09 | fsmithred | there's no xorg.conf to modify |
| 03:27.34 | fsmithred | you can make one, but I'm not sure that's the problem |
| 03:29.02 | fsmithred | there might be more than one cause for that message |
| 03:30.25 | fsmithred | Scroll down to the section on Session Management - https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt |
| 03:30.35 | fsmithred | I need to go to sleep |
| 03:31.18 | fsmithred | make sure you have the right libpolkit-gobject and libpolkit-backend |
| 03:31.40 | fsmithred | also make sure you're not missing any xorg package. You might have lost something during the upgrade. |
| 03:31.46 | fsmithred | good luck. |
| 03:37.43 | minty | fsmithred: TKU VMUCH nighty-night |
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| 04:06.53 | FatPhil | is there a problem (apart from not being recommended) with jessie-backports? g/f says she can't download any package updates on her lappy. |
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| 04:32.29 | drawkula | looks like a problem here too |
| 04:32.35 | drawkula | in a jessie-VM |
| 04:32.47 | drawkula | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:32.56 | drawkula | ups! |
| 04:33.15 | drawkula | nervous mouse finger |
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| 05:44.48 | gnarface | FatPhil: i think Debian is about to kill off jessie upstream |
| 05:45.08 | gnarface | that might be a good reason to get off it or quickly mirror it |
| 05:45.43 | gnarface | i wouldn't expect backports or security updates to persist indefinitely |
| 05:46.02 | gnarface | it will even only be available on their servers as "oldstable" for a limited time |
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| 06:17.19 | omnio | folks, does someone have some experience installing devuan on a JFS or XFS filesystem? It seems that if I choose to install on anything else than ext3, it fails to boot |
| 06:18.29 | gnarface | XFS is working for me, though i'm not sure i tried it from the installer |
| 06:18.45 | omnio | I'm talking about the installation DVD, not about the live one (the live one lets you choose only between ext2, ext3, ext4) |
| 06:18.53 | omnio | I see |
| 06:19.11 | gnarface | what errors to do you get when it fails to boot? |
| 06:21.04 | gnarface | if you're using grub, make sure to remove "quiet" from /etc/default/grub to see the full text output of the boot process |
| 06:22.01 | gnarface | also, did you use LVM, RAID, LUKS, or some combination of the three? it might not have anything to do with the filesystem, per-se |
| 06:23.56 | omnio | it seems that the classical installer (not refracta) doesn't like me much, the only successful install I made with it was on an ext3 partition. Last evening I chose ext4 and the error is now "error: file '/boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod' not found." |
| 06:24.19 | omnio | no LVM and all that stuff, no /boot partition, just one plain ext4 / partition |
| 06:25.32 | omnio | I guess I'll just use the refracta installer and ext4, but I was wondering if someone else has had problems with this |
| 06:35.43 | gnarface | omnio: this is the Ascii install DVD, as in Devuan 2.0, right? |
| 06:35.59 | omnio | yep |
| 06:36.23 | gnarface | should work, but the issue rings a bell... |
| 06:36.28 | gnarface | i'm wondering if you have an old version |
| 06:36.37 | gnarface | or if there's some uefi complication |
| 06:37.54 | gnarface | do you have the package "grub-pc-bin" installed there? |
| 06:38.36 | omnio | I don't use uefi on this old machine... google seems to show a lot of results for this error |
| 06:39.02 | omnio | hold on, I have to boot another distro and chroot in order to check that |
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| 06:39.59 | gnarface | are you sharing the machine with Windows? |
| 06:41.17 | omnio | no, with Mageia on a different hard disk |
| 06:42.50 | gnarface | hmm, so it's conceivable this issue is more to do with it's grub install than the one devuan came with? |
| 06:43.39 | omnio | Mageia installed its grub on the MBR of its disk, and so did Devuan (on its disk) |
| 06:43.54 | omnio | (on separate disks) |
| 06:44.41 | gnarface | right, but unless you're changing the boot order of the physical disks in the BIOS, then the grub that loads is whichever is on the first disk the bios sees |
| 06:45.12 | omnio | and I'm trying to boot devuan with devuan's grub that devuan installer installed on the devuan disk :) |
| 06:45.25 | omnio | right, that;s what I do -> BIOS |
| 06:45.43 | gnarface | oh. so it still fails if you tell the BIOS that the devuan disk is the first disk? |
| 06:46.01 | gnarface | well, do see about that grub-pc-bin package |
| 06:46.16 | omnio | ...checking... |
| 06:46.47 | gnarface | you've got a devuan install from DVD that hasn't booted yet, so it's conceivable this bug has been fixed long ago and you just need to get your network up so you can patch |
| 06:47.42 | gnarface | (i don't know how long ago you downloaded that DVD, but FYI for the future, the netinstall is usually a better long-term solution if you plan to have a network handy, because it will patch itself during install) |
| 06:48.41 | gnarface | the DVD sets are more intended as a convenience for un-networked systems |
| 06:49.54 | omnio | yes, grub-pc-bin is installed. No, it's not that, I downloaded the DVD just a couple of days ago. I also did a netinstall yesterday but that fails too if I choose something else than ext3 |
| 06:50.06 | gnarface | do you have grub-pc too? |
| 06:50.16 | gnarface | and grub-common and/or grub2-common? |
| 06:50.42 | gnarface | for that matter, do you see the actual file it's complaining about anywhere? /boot/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod or /usr/lib/grub/i386-pc/normal.mod? |
| 06:50.58 | gnarface | the real mystery here is what happened to that file |
| 06:51.46 | omnio | yes, I have grub-pc and grub-common |
| 06:51.57 | omnio | nevermind, I'll just use the refracta installer on this old machine. Thanks anyway! |
| 06:52.03 | gnarface | aww come on |
| 06:52.13 | gnarface | at least finish answering my questions |
| 06:52.19 | gnarface | neither of us learn anything this way |
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| 06:52.49 | gnarface | you cited a boot failure ending in an error about a missing file and you still haven't even explicitly confirmed whether the file exists on your system or not |
| 06:52.54 | omnio | hehe, sure, but it feels like some hard-to-hunt installer bug |
| 06:53.14 | gnarface | 99% of the difficulty here is your methodology |
| 06:53.23 | gnarface | or lack thereof |
| 06:54.00 | omnio | oh, let me check for that file |
| 06:54.25 | gnarface | i see it here in both ascii and ceres |
| 06:55.03 | gnarface | in fact i have TWO copies each |
| 06:55.26 | gnarface | on ein /boot/grub/i386-pc and one in /usr/lib/grub/i386-pv |
| 06:55.29 | gnarface | *pc |
| 06:56.02 | omnio | no, there is no norma.mod file :( as I said, and installer bug |
| 06:56.10 | omnio | *normal.mod |
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| 06:56.36 | gnarface | well, it should definitely be there |
| 06:58.01 | omnio | sure, but I'm tired after 10 attempts to install in different combinations. So it looks like either I choose the refracta installer, or the classical installer with ext3 which seems to work |
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| 06:58.40 | gnarface | well do what you want, but i'm not satisfied with your causal analysis |
| 06:59.15 | gnarface | just out of curiosity, if you run "update-grub" as root while chrooted into that install, does it start working then? |
| 06:59.39 | gnarface | at issue is figuring out how you could be having an issue that nobody else has |
| 07:00.08 | gnarface | while it's possible entirely to be a bug in the installer, the fact most people aren't running into this issue suggests it's something different you did |
| 07:00.36 | gnarface | my google searches about this all seem to point to ubuntu users sharing a computer with a Windows install though |
| 07:01.10 | gnarface | so that suggests this is more related to grub and dual-boot installations than anything specific about the DVD installer you used |
| 07:03.04 | gnarface | sorry you'd already tried beating your head against a wall 10x first |
| 07:03.47 | gnarface | fyi there's the additional option of debootstrap installation too though |
| 07:04.21 | omnio | update-grub worked fine, I rebooted but I get the same error. I don't know, maybe there's something strange about the hardware of this machine |
| 07:04.32 | omnio | it's ancient |
| 07:05.07 | gnarface | it could be something strange about the BIOS behavior itself that is complicating this, yes. if, for example, the BIOS re-numbers the boot drives after POST, that can confuse grub quite royally |
| 07:05.19 | gnarface | the thing about only ext3 working is weird though, i suspect just a red herring |
| 07:06.07 | gnarface | in fact, i think the right changes to the grub config should fix this though it's not beyond the realm of possibility you're still missing a package |
| 07:06.39 | gnarface | what might be causing you confusion in fact might just be unexpected interations between the two different grub installs you ahve on your separate drives |
| 07:06.49 | gnarface | you might need to set them both up to play nice |
| 07:07.02 | omnio | now that you said it, it seems likely to me too that it's about the BIOS |
| 07:07.31 | gnarface | i've used multiple grub installs before but usually chainloading isn't worth the trouble unless you're doing something fancy |
| 07:07.36 | gnarface | you shouldn't need two grub installs at all |
| 07:07.44 | gnarface | your two linux installs should be able to share a single grub |
| 07:08.26 | gnarface | i admit i've still thrown my hands up and used lilo instead on some old Dell computers just because of infuriatingly misbehaved BIOSes |
| 07:09.07 | omnio | I'm not chainloading, I use separate grubs installed on separate MBR's to boot separate distros |
| 07:09.17 | omnio | :) |
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| 07:09.38 | gnarface | well if you can actually see that it's renaming/renumbering the drives in some bad way, fixing it might be as simple as a 1-digit change to both grub configs |
| 07:10.52 | gnarface | i don't know why there's a mnemonic flag in my head about efi firmware related to this grub-pc missing file thing |
| 07:11.30 | gnarface | is this a machine that fully predates UEFI or was it one of those transitional ones that can boot in either BIOS/Legacy or (U)EFI mode? |
| 07:12.08 | omnio | I see. Well, there is one more test that I didn't do and it would clarify things a bit, to leave just one disk in the machine and install only devuan on it. If that fails too it seems likely to be some hardware/BIOS issue |
| 07:12.27 | omnio | No, legacy only |
| 07:12.31 | gnarface | that would be a good test but if you do it make sure you start from a cold boot |
| 07:12.53 | gnarface | as in power down, unplug the power, count 10 seconds after all the LEDs go out, etc |
| 07:13.32 | gnarface | (misbehaved BIOSes can cache some of that hardware configuration, so stuff you've removed can still cause issues) |
| 07:14.42 | omnio | Heh, I see. I'll try this these days. I'm exhausted. Thanks for all the help! |
| 07:15.24 | gnarface | yea no problem. sorry i couldn't help more |
| 07:16.07 | gnarface | i strongly advise you don't give up on it though. these types of mysteries are usually really important to solve in order to inform your future purchasing decisions |
| 07:16.18 | omnio | (a freakin' crappy old machine and tons of people wasting their time with it...) |
| 07:16.39 | gnarface | but figuring out why it's not working might help many others |
| 07:18.17 | gnarface | there's a limited amount of patterns of this type of misbehavior, it's really important to accurately assign blame, rather than just assuming something |
| 07:18.41 | omnio | well, I'm so happy that I found devuan that is actually usable (as speed) on this old machine, that I'll go with whatever install combination works :) |
| 07:18.59 | gnarface | well, if ext3 works fine i don't blame you |
| 07:19.18 | gnarface | i just don't think that should have anything to do with it, so it would be valuable for me to know if it's true or not |
| 07:19.24 | gnarface | also, i really like XFS |
| 07:19.45 | gnarface | i think you would too if you experienced how much faster it is on that hardware |
| 07:20.02 | gnarface | it's a worthy cause |
| 07:20.37 | omnio | I don't know, I chose JFS because it's said to have the lowest CPU load => probably good for an old CPU |
| 07:21.30 | gnarface | XFS has great read times, i don't know much about JFS |
| 07:22.32 | gnarface | XFS also is the only one that is multi-threaded |
| 07:22.42 | gnarface | but if you only have a single CPU core that may not help you much |
| 07:23.03 | gnarface | it's a really smart choice for a core2duo system though |
| 07:24.15 | omnio | the mageia install I have on the other disk is on JFS, the fs operations seem pretty fast but the os is still sluggish compared to devuan, I guess it's because of systemd. Also, they compiled "strangely" their 32 bit packages, some fail with the "Illegal instruction" error, I guess they passed SSE and SSE2 flags that my CPU doesn't have |
| 07:24.28 | omnio | it's not that case of devuan/debian, where everything works |
| 07:24.35 | omnio | 32 packages, I mean |
| 07:24.43 | omnio | *32 bit |
| 07:25.06 | gnarface | it could be systemd at fault but it's hard to say. a lot can be said just for default package selections |
| 07:25.18 | gnarface | like how much stuff they load you down with extra that you're not using |
| 07:25.35 | gnarface | not just systemd but other userspace daemons |
| 07:25.45 | gnarface | all that cruft that comes along with gnome or kde for example |
| 07:26.22 | omnio | I know, that's first thing I looked at. I just use LXQT and stopped pretty much all the daemons |
| 07:30.48 | gnarface | this place will start to get more crowded in about 6-8 hours |
| 07:30.57 | gnarface | i think |
| 07:31.25 | gnarface | i'll help you more with it whenever you're ready, but usually i'm not the only one here, too |
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| 07:34.14 | gnarface | and don't uh... devalue that hardware in your mind. it's a worthwhile endeavor to figure out how to make this machine behave. hardware that predates speculative execution vulnerabilities is bound to spike in value... |
| 07:37.23 | omnio | thanks a lot :) yeah, but the problem is that the old motherboards just die after a while mainly because of capacitor failures, so I don't know how long they'll be around... |
| 07:37.46 | omnio | *for how long |
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| 07:42.59 | FatPhil | gnarface: are the other devuan releases more independent on debian - being dependent on the thing you broke away from really isn't breaking away, after all. |
| 07:44.40 | FatPhil | I think I did a jessie-ascii upgrade on one of my boxes without hitch, I'll recommend that to her when she can afford the downtime (she's only on that old laptop because her main box imploded, and has work pressures). |
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| 08:02.02 | omnio | I guess that being completely independent would mean to have the manpower to maintain 100000000000 packages |
| 08:09.13 | gnarface | omnio: capacitors aren't supposed to fail normally. there's just a period of a couple bad years of hardware |
| 08:09.52 | gnarface | due to an actual temporary loss of the secret recipe, according to the story i heard |
| 08:10.24 | onefang | And can be fixed. Did that on my monitor. |
| 08:11.17 | gnarface | FatPhil: i don't really know if there's a good answer to that question but the idea was NOT to change Debian, and this is the cheapest most direct way to do that |
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| 08:12.39 | gnarface | right now there wouldn't really be enough resources to support a full fork, but most the packages are untouched by systemd anyway, so a full fork shouldn't be necessary unless ... Debian were to start directly blocking Devuan users from repo access or something like that |
| 08:13.55 | gnarface | and i don't know if that wouldn't happen but i would imagine they'd still make an effort to keep most the packages the same unless absolutely necessary |
| 08:14.15 | gnarface | not just to save cost, but also to maintain compatibility |
| 08:14.33 | gnarface | that's just my guess though |
| 08:14.57 | FatPhil | ah, so was she actually attempting to hit a debian server via a devuan url? |
| 08:14.59 | onefang | I think directly blocking Devuan users from Debian repos would be a tad tricky. lol |
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| 08:15.51 | gnarface | FatPhil: that's the way it works |
| 08:16.10 | gnarface | FatPhil: amprolla is using HTTP redirects i think...\ |
| 08:16.10 | FatPhil | ah - thanks, I wasn't aware of that, I thought you were mirroring |
| 08:16.17 | gnarface | no it's not a full mirror |
| 08:16.31 | gnarface | only the packages that are actually changed are actually on the devuan mirrors |
| 08:16.52 | gnarface | the rest of the downloads are redirected to debian servers |
| 08:17.12 | onefang | Some of the mirrors have a full mirror of Devuan and Debian, usually to ones that had Debian mirror already. Others use redirects. |
| 08:19.07 | FatPhil | OK, I'll try to get the thing dist-upgraded to ascii sooner rather than later then. |
| 08:19.37 | FatPhil | Doesn't this setup mean you have to kinda run in lock-step with the debian distros? |
| 08:20.34 | gnarface | that's the idea, but in practice devuan runs a few weeks behind on major releases |
| 08:20.53 | FatPhil | eep, I notice I'm running jessie here too. mote, plank, etc. |
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| 08:45.12 | FatPhil | Anyone have any idea why xrandr doesn't even list a VGA output on a EeePC lappy? I'm used to seeing such things as 'disconnected' on other machines, never not listed at all. |
| 08:47.37 | gnarface | no driver support maybe |
| 08:47.50 | Human_G33k | anything in dmesg related ? |
| 08:48.28 | gnarface | something about missing firmware maybe? |
| 08:52.56 | FatPhil | ug, g/f's gone silent for a moment, and I can't work out how to SSH in from here. |
| 08:54.42 | FatPhil | It's a horribly crappy intel graphics chipset on the board, strangely behaving differently when it comes to h/w 2D scaling between debian jessie and devuan jessie, IIRC. pure junk, IMHO, but it's the machine we have, so we have to make do. |
| 08:55.40 | gnarface | recently they changed a default so it might be using the kvm driver instead of the intel driver unless you specify something in the xorg config |
| 08:56.01 | gnarface | sorry, driver i mean the kms driver |
| 08:56.10 | gnarface | "modesetting" |
| 08:56.18 | gnarface | as opposed to "intel" |
| 08:56.26 | gnarface | or something like that |
| 09:00.37 | FatPhil | I'll be in the office this afternoon (and it's approaching lunchtime now) so will be able to be more hands-on with the machine (got 3 buggers to fix now, it seems like 2019 is the year of PC doom for me) |
| 09:04.41 | FatPhil | dmesg doesn't go far enough back to boot time, alas. But when we removed -updates, we did a kernel downgrade, so a reboot is pending (and the problem may magically disappear) |
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| 09:05.51 | FatPhil | lspci identifies it as: 00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Atom Processor D2xxx/N2xxx Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 09) |
| 09:09.38 | gnarface | oh, integrated into atom processor hmm |
| 09:09.52 | FatPhil | I notice lsmod shows: drm 207600 3 drm_kms_helper,gma500_gfx |
| 09:10.30 | gnarface | well i guess i don't know for sure the intel driver even supports that one. i know it doesn't actually support all of them, and this could be one of those. |
| 09:10.50 | gnarface | it would be pretty easy to test though |
| 09:11.24 | gnarface | there would be obvious changes to the Xorg log and the display behavior |
| 09:13.45 | gnarface | oh but wait |
| 09:13.49 | gnarface | did it used to use the intel driver? |
| 09:13.55 | gnarface | if so i would expect it would still work |
| 09:14.10 | gnarface | so in that case it's probably just because kms is the default if you don't specify anything |
| 09:15.16 | FatPhil | OK, off to lunch, then to office after that. |
| 09:15.24 | gnarface | later |
| 09:15.36 | FatPhil | hmmm, I don't see anything to do with VGA in the Xorg.log |
| 09:19.47 | gnarface | make sure it's the right log file |
| 09:20.00 | gnarface | could be in /var/log or .local/share/xorg now |
| 09:20.14 | gnarface | sorry ~/.local/share/xorg i mean |
| 09:20.33 | gnarface | look for modeset or kms |
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| 10:33.47 | FatPhil | gnarface: (EE) Failed to load module "modesetting" (module does not exist, 0) |
| 10:34.00 | gnarface | interesting |
| 10:34.20 | gnarface | wait is that after you edited xorg.conf or without any changes? |
| 10:37.10 | FatPhil | I don't have an xorg.conf per se, there are three default confs in the .d directory |
| 10:37.29 | gnarface | ok, that's what i wanted to make sure of, that you were getting that error stock |
| 10:39.10 | FatPhil | oh, we didn't do the reboot yet, as alas work still needs to be done for nagging clients. |
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| 10:40.26 | FatPhil | however, my h/w switcheroo for broken machine 2 seems to be working, so that's 1/3 for the day. |
| 10:41.19 | FatPhil | once that passes a quick burn-in, it will liberate the laptop, and I should be able to ascii-fy it. |
| 10:42.46 | FatPhil | which means it's time to turn attention to broken machine 3... Again, crappy crappy hardware is to blame I'm sure. But DHCPC does seem to be at fault too. It ignores the flags I've set in /etc/defaults |
| 10:46.41 | AEonFyr | Is there any info on the recent openssl update? Changelog @ https://metadata.ftp-master.debian.org/changelogs//main/o/openssl/openssl_1.1.0k-1~deb9u1_changelog just 404's |
| 10:46.49 | gnarface | FatPhil: tried a different dhcp client for that? |
| 10:49.48 | FatPhil | gnarface: that's the next thing I'll do - I hate the default bloaty one and all its deps, so went for the busybox one instead. |
| 10:51.04 | FatPhil | alas this zotac dvr takes about 70s to actually turn on its ETH PHY, and the dhcpc times out before an address can be fetched |
| 10:52.03 | FatPhil | yes, I do power my office with junk that falls off the back of a dustcart. |
| 10:56.05 | FatPhil | My oldest machine is a 32bit Athlon XP2800+ from ~2002 |
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| 11:12.34 | FatPhil | let's call that 2/3-ish, as the ISC dhcpc did get an IP address |
| 11:14.27 | FatPhil | I wonder why udhcpc wasn't playing ball. the udhcpc_opts setting in /e/n/interfaces seemed to be completely ignored. |
| 11:17.46 | AEonFyr | researched that the latest openssl update is to fix CVE-2019-1543 |
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| 11:47.33 | fsmithred | AEonFyr, openssl 1.1.0k-1~deb9u1 (patched) is in ascii-security |
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| 12:09.45 | FatPhil | Arse, 2 steps forward, 1 step back - replacement PSU didn't stop spontanious reboots, presume h/w is proper borked on machine 2. |
| 12:21.54 | cehteh | old caps, fscked thermal paste, graphics drivers? |
| 12:22.10 | gnarface | yea what about heat? |
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| 12:23.57 | FatPhil | it was freshly hoovered, and had the lid off (and with a honking heat sink and fan on the CPU, nothing was even vaguely warm to the touch. |
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| 12:24.32 | FatPhil | Only started dying last week, and now it's every few hours. Might be a cap. |
| 12:25.50 | FatPhil | the machine is moribund anyway, it's over a decade old. |
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| 13:08.06 | HumanGeek | hello |
| 13:08.20 | HumanGeek | is tor mirror down ? |
| 13:09.13 | HumanGeek | Centurion_Dan, you did a systemd conf file translator ? |
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| 13:39.51 | AEonFyr | fsmithred, thanks. I saw it there and was wondering what is being fixed, but couldn't find an online changelog. Eventually installed the update and read the included changelog to find out. :) |
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| 15:18.22 | golinux | gnarface: https://wiki.debian.org/LTS jessie will not be dead until 2020. |
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| 15:22.09 | gnarface | noted golinux, thanks |
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| 15:31.52 | golinux | gnarface: I still keep track of the Debian forum so thank sunrat over on FDN. |
| 15:36.34 | golinux | onefang: I'm curious about your statement that some of the mirrors have a full mirror of Devuan and Debian. That may be true but is the Debian mirror actually connected to Devuan? I have never heard of amprolla pointing to anything else than the Debian repos. |
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| 16:51.23 | proteusguy | libressl in-compatibilities are giving me trouble upgrading some of my core systems. I need the latest Python 3.7.x but it isn't compatible: see https://bpaste.net/show/Up-d and https://github.com/libressl-portable/portable/issues/381 . What's the best work around for people using Devuan? |
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| 16:54.42 | gnarface | proteusguy: is it in backports? check backports |
| 16:58.38 | proteusguy | sorry devuan newbie here. how do I do that gnarface ? |
| 17:00.28 | gnarface | same way it works in debian |
| 17:00.53 | proteusguy | is also a debian newbie. I don't know what backports is. |
| 17:01.12 | gnarface | well lemme see if it's even in there first... |
| 17:01.50 | gnarface | nevermind proteusguy it doesn't matter because python isn't in backports |
| 17:02.19 | proteusguy | is there an alternate version of ssl? |
| 17:02.26 | gnarface | basically backports is a repo of extra updated stuff that isn't necessarily as well tested as the stuff actually released as stable |
| 17:02.34 | proteusguy | I see. |
| 17:03.43 | gnarface | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ |
| 17:03.44 | proteusguy | I just recently dropped Kubuntu 14.04 as it went end of life and was the last version to not have systemd. So I'm really hoping I can work with Devuan. But I'm a dev and actually do need a newer version of Python than what's provided. |
| 17:03.46 | gnarface | you can search the packages here |
| 17:04.09 | gnarface | but basically for the most part it's gonna be the same as debian |
| 17:04.26 | slvr | I like running the newest ubuntu in an lxc container, safely isolated from my working system. |
| 17:04.54 | proteusguy | how does one get apt to point to backports? |
| 17:04.54 | gnarface | proteusguy: you can always run the unstable version to get a more recent python |
| 17:05.37 | gnarface | you'd add it to the /etc/apt/sources.list file, re-run "apt-get update" and then add "-t ascii-backports" to subsequent apt-get and apt-cache commands |
| 17:05.52 | FatPhil | generic linux Q: having some trub changing a user's uid and (unique) gid simultaniously. Found 2 horrible workarounds, is there something simpler: |
| 17:06.53 | proteusguy | gnarface, I see. pardon the ignorance but what actually do I add to the sources.list file? |
| 17:07.07 | FatPhil | 1) groupmod, find -exec chown, then usermod; 2) create new group, usermod -g, delete old group, rename new group to old name |
| 17:07.15 | gnarface | proteusguy: deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main |
| 17:07.30 | gnarface | proteusguy: and: deb-src http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main |
| 17:07.48 | gnarface | proteusguy: (see here: https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list) |
| 17:07.49 | proteusguy | gnarface, many thanks! |
| 17:08.18 | gnarface | proteusguy: comment it out and re-run "apt-get update" again when you're done with it. you don't want to leave it on in general for normal upgrades |
| 17:08.29 | proteusguy | I se |
| 17:08.30 | proteusguy | I see |
| 17:08.52 | gnarface | proteusguy: and you only need it for stable (ascii). if you were to upgrade to unstable (ceres) then you'd have newer packages already |
| 17:09.17 | proteusguy | is ceres fairly stable or are breaks expected? |
| 17:09.35 | FatPhil | proteusguy: the docs are pretty good, easily copy-pasteable, and found very easily by google: https://www.devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list |
| 17:09.52 | gnarface | proteusguy: it breaks sometimes, just like debian unstable |
| 17:10.01 | gnarface | proteusguy: usually at the same time |
| 17:10.39 | gnarface | proteusguy: if you're a developer i think you could handle it anyway if you just keep backups |
| 17:13.25 | Katnjia | proteusguy, dealt with the same yesterday; you got the choice of installing the Python version you want manually, or you'll have to consider this: https://serverfault.com/questions/22414/how-can-i-run-debian-stable-but-install-some-packages-from-testing#382101 |
| 17:14.47 | proteusguy | I found python3-openssl in the backports. hoping that may solve the problem. |
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| 17:35.37 | Akuli | proteusguy, do you want to install a python? |
| 17:36.03 | Akuli | nevermind i found your first message |
| 17:36.50 | Akuli | installing a python from source is not very difficult either, if you want to do that (you just need to know a few things, e.g. --prefix=$HOME/.local) |
| 17:37.42 | proteusguy | Akuli, getting all the dependencies right is a PITA. Right now trying to figure out how to deal with ctypes. |
| 17:38.10 | proteusguy | I seem to have gotten beyond the ssl issue described above. |
| 17:38.42 | Akuli | no, it isn't |
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| 17:38.48 | Akuli | $ sudo apt-get build-dep python3-minimal python3-dev |
| 17:38.50 | Akuli | or something like taht |
| 17:40.52 | proteusguy | trying... |
| 17:41.17 | Akuli | other hints: you can speed up compilation by passing -j2 to make, pass --prefix=$HOME/.local to ./configure (run ./configure again if you didn't do that), don't use sudo when you 'make install' |
| 17:41.23 | Akuli | oh and don't 'make install' |
| 17:41.30 | Akuli | instead do 'make altinstall' so it won't override the system's python3 |
| 17:41.34 | proteusguy | I' |
| 17:41.40 | proteusguy | I'm using make altinstall |
| 17:42.12 | proteusguy | hmm... looks like same issues. No _ctypes. |
| 17:42.43 | proteusguy | This is python 3.7.3 |
| 17:43.39 | Akuli | let me try to compile a python 3.7 too |
| 17:44.44 | Akuli | you may need to run ./configure again after installing dependencies |
| 17:44.47 | Akuli | (remember --prefix) |
| 17:45.02 | proteusguy | yep I do a make clean and then a fresh configure. |
| 17:45.33 | proteusguy | what's the --prefix do? |
| 17:45.42 | Akuli | it tells it to install it into your home folder |
| 17:45.57 | Akuli | so you won't screw up anything system-wide, no matter what you do |
| 17:45.57 | proteusguy | I think the make altinstall takes care of that for me. |
| 17:46.17 | Akuli | it makes it not create an executable called 'python3', but still installs to a place where you need sudo to uninstall it |
| 17:46.29 | Akuli | also there is no 'make uninstall' :D |
| 17:46.36 | proteusguy | :-) |
| 17:47.38 | Akuli | can you show the last 30 lines or so of output from make? |
| 17:48.00 | proteusguy | Yeah I'm updating some stuff... few minutes. |
| 17:48.03 | Akuli | i just compiled python 3.7.2 and ran it, ctypes imports nicely |
| 17:49.12 | proteusguy | weird. here's my steps I've taken: https://bpaste.net/show/zHrR |
| 17:49.49 | proteusguy | ignore the 3.6.3 stuff... |
| 17:50.29 | proteusguy | And I do: ./configure --enable-optimizations --with-ensurepip=install instead. |
| 17:51.58 | Akuli | you don't need to install it to see whether it works |
| 17:52.19 | Akuli | can you show the end of make? it should tell you which things are missing |
| 17:52.20 | proteusguy | results of my build: https://bpaste.net/show/Goqw |
| 17:53.44 | proteusguy | results of make altinstall: https://bpaste.net/show/w4Oh |
| 17:55.22 | Akuli | sudo apt install liblzma-dev libgdbm-dev libsqlite3-dev tcl-dev tk-dev libffi-dev |
| 17:55.25 | proteusguy | hmm... I actually seem to have a "working" python3.7. gets me a repl anyway. |
| 17:55.37 | Akuli | gives a repl but will not import all the stuff that is "missing" |
| 17:55.46 | Akuli | install those things and try again |
| 17:59.25 | proteusguy | that's much better... still missing _abc atexit pwd and time. |
| 18:00.06 | proteusguy | sudo make altinstall was clean. |
| 18:01.01 | Akuli | hmm i wonder why those fail to build :D |
| 18:01.10 | Akuli | are you sure? show output |
| 18:01.16 | Akuli | you can also try importing those |
| 18:02.38 | proteusguy | https://bpaste.net/show/_Erq |
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| 19:07.47 | Akuli | proteusguy, it says that the modules have been built, your new python seems to be ok :) |
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| 19:18.56 | proteusguy | appreciate the help Akuli! |
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| 19:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | FatPhil: so everything OK with IRC now? |
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| 19:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | (cleaned out two legacy +V, no worries) |
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| 20:25.24 | FatPhil | DocScrutinizer05: it seems so, it was simply a case of leaving and rejoining. Seems like a server bug more than a client bug. |
| 20:27.35 | FatPhil | Anyone remember NIS? I'm having a spot of bother setting up a replacement ypserver for one of my dead crates. make in /var/yp just barfs "failed to send 'clear' to local ypserv: RPC: Program not registered" |
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| 20:59.38 | FatPhil | herpderp - filed to set NISSERVER=master in /e/d/nis |
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| 22:42.22 | onefang | golinux: now that I've woken up, I can answer your question. |
| 22:43.14 | golinux | Please do. |
| 22:43.40 | onefang | When a Devuan user requests a package form a Devuan mirror, if it's a Debian package the request is still sent to the Devuan mirror ... |
| 22:44.21 | golinux | Yes to merged |
| 22:44.24 | onefang | If the Devuan mirror doesn't have it's own copy of a Debian mirror, it redirects that request to Debians mirror system ... |
| 22:44.55 | onefang | If the Devuan mirror does have it's own copy of a Debian mirror, it merely returns the package as requested. |
| 22:45.03 | onefang | Is that what you mean by "connected"? |
| 22:45.47 | golinux | So it looks for a local debian mirror before going to the official debian repos? |
| 22:46.01 | onefang | Some of our mirrors have both, but it's a big lot of disk space, so some just do the redirect. |
| 22:46.09 | golinux | I had never heard that in all the years I've been around here. |
| 22:46.21 | onefang | That's up to the mirror admin how they arrange things. |
| 22:46.34 | golinux | I thought it was up to amprolla. |
| 22:47.42 | golinux | And that it always went to to the official Debian repos. |
| 22:48.21 | onefang | My mirror is of the redirect variety, coz I don't have the space for a full Debian mirror. But if I did, I'd have a separate Debian mirror available to Debian users, then just symlink it into the merged directory of my Devuan mirror. Other options are available. |
| 22:49.22 | golinux | What is the advantage of doing it that way? Seems like just more to go wrong. |
| 22:49.49 | onefang | I know some of our mirrors supply Debian packages without the redirect, my mirror checker scripts probes the details of redirects on all our mirrors to try and find out if there's any problems with that process. |
| 22:50.22 | onefang | For me the advantage is I don't have to buy more hard disk space to hold all of Debian. |
| 22:50.53 | onefang | For others they have the flexibility to do things either way. They might also not have disk space. |
| 22:51.50 | onefang | For people that already had a Debian mirror before becoming a Devuan mirror, they can just do it all. After all, they are running a Debian mirror to help spread the load for Debian. |
| 22:52.39 | onefang | A full Debian mirror is kinda huge. B-) |
| 22:52.59 | golinux | OK. I get it. I just had no idea that was possible so learned something new. |
| 22:53.10 | onefang | smiles. |
| 23:06.19 | lyubov | p/win 2 |
| 23:07.15 | fsmithred | FatPhil, does it have to be simultaneous, or can you do it with two or three commands. I use these: |
| 23:07.26 | fsmithred | usermod -l $newname $oldname |
| 23:07.39 | fsmithred | usermod -d /home/$newname -m $newname |
| 23:08.02 | fsmithred | groupmod -n $newname $oldname |
| 23:08.26 | fsmithred | I posted those out of order - I do the groupmod second |
| 23:09.00 | fsmithred | change name, change group, change home |
| 23:09.35 | fsmithred | oh yeah, then there's this: for i in $(grep -r "/home/$oldname" /target/home/$newname/.config | awk -F":" '{ print $1 }'); do |
| 23:09.35 | fsmithred | sed -i "s/\/home\/$oldname/\/home\/$newname/g" "$i" |
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| 23:34.09 | FatPhil | fsmithred: I'm changind uid and gid (moving it out of a NIS serving range), rather than user/group names. |
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| 23:55.35 | fsmithred | FatPhil, then you need the -u and -g options |
| 23:55.39 | fsmithred | for usermod |
| 23:56.55 | fsmithred | you might still need to change the home, too. files and dirs go by number, not name. |
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