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| 01:57.29 | systemdlete | before I begin, yeah, I really am not quite sure what I'm doing. I have a ASUS M5A78L-USB3 MB with a Thuban 1075T X6 CPU. It has a large, but still fairly modest, fan assembly. |
| 01:58.01 | systemdlete | I ordered a FX8350 thinking I can upgrade it so, as per ASUS's support page for this MB. But it comes with a Wraith cooler. |
| 01:58.28 | systemdlete | It looks like it wont fit around the closest memory modules, and a Tom's HW review seems to indicate that also. |
| 01:59.09 | systemdlete | my current processor is 95W; the new FX processor runs at 125W. So this may be why they boxed the processor with the wraith. |
| 01:59.47 | systemdlete | I was hoping for a straight-forward upgrade using this board, which has really been very sound. I've had no instability issues. |
| 02:00.23 | systemdlete | Is there any way I can use the existing fan and get away with it (meaning: not blow the cpu or the board, or both)? |
| 02:01.59 | systemdlete | something about Black edition vs whatever edition; the ability to do some sophisticated OC which I am really not looking to do |
| 02:03.00 | systemdlete | just wanted to get some additional processing power. The whole "upgrade" kit cost me $72, so I won't cry too much if I have to forego this whole deal. But any thoughts/experience on the predicament I've created for myself might be helpful. |
| 02:04.17 | gnarface | systemdlete: what's your ram configuration? |
| 02:04.35 | systemdlete | 4x4 -- all 4 slots 4G each |
| 02:04.42 | gnarface | oh i see |
| 02:04.44 | systemdlete | do you know this board? |
| 02:04.50 | gnarface | no but i'm looking at the manual now |
| 02:04.54 | systemdlete | thanks |
| 02:05.31 | gnarface | my first suggestion was to just use the second pair of slots instead |
| 02:05.32 | systemdlete | their site claims I could do a FX8350, but I think the wraith is a new edition for AMD on certain cpus |
| 02:06.03 | systemdlete | right. But that would deprive me of 1/2 my memory. I was trying to go "cheap" |
| 02:07.04 | gnarface | ironically you're in this situation because AMD doesn't cheap out on their stock coolers |
| 02:07.11 | systemdlete | you know, it just might JUST clear the memory stick. But I'd hate to take it all apart and end up very disappointed. |
| 02:07.15 | EHeM | In theory all desktop processors in the past decade have dealt with overheat conditions by reducing their clock speeds, to the point that they were all capable of running /without/ a heat sink/fan; AMD hasn't been doing as much testing of this as Intel, but they're known to do some and an FX8350 *should* be able to deal with an undersized heatsink/fan (note it is possible to get FX8350 processors without the "Wraith" cooler). |
| 02:07.43 | gnarface | yea you could just underclock the CPU but depending on what you're doing, you might be better off with half the ram actually |
| 02:07.57 | EHeM | Note, this is theory and I don't take responsibility if your system explodes with an undersize heatsink/fan (I'm merely stating this is *unlikely*). |
| 02:08.26 | systemdlete | I had no idea how big this wraith would be. I got the package today, opened it, thinking the actual packaing is probably smaller than the shipper box,but alas, no. Then when I opened the actual inside package, this enormous fan assembly... and my heart sunk... |
| 02:08.49 | gnarface | eh, maybe you have lower profile ram and it'll fit? |
| 02:09.02 | gnarface | maybe the fan orientation isn't the same, so it'll be fine? |
| 02:09.25 | systemdlete | possibly. Just looking through the side window of my case, it looks like it will be tight, if at all. |
| 02:09.47 | systemdlete | Dang. I hate when stuff like this happens. And it always does it seems. |
| 02:10.03 | gnarface | when you tried to go cheap, you already committed to the possibility of taking it all apart only to have to put it all back together without upgrading anything. so i'd say take it apart and get measuring. better to start now then at midnight after you realize you shouldn't have spent 5 hours agonizing over whether to do a 30 minute task |
| 02:10.28 | systemdlete | So, then why do they offer both 8350 with AND without wraith fan? Because of something to do with OC |
| 02:10.37 | gnarface | yes, possibly |
| 02:10.52 | gnarface | the motherboard manual says that preferring the blue ram slots also is a OC-only concern |
| 02:11.05 | systemdlete | This board does allow some OC, but I've never really twiddled with the OC feature. I tried OC once a long time ago on a different board, iirc, and found it got unstable and gave up. |
| 02:11.23 | gnarface | (the memory configuration lists the possiblity of using beyond-spec 2000Mhz RAM) |
| 02:11.26 | systemdlete | interesting gnarface |
| 02:11.36 | EHeM | I've got a M5A78L-M+/USB3 and a Wraith is just fine, but this sounds like a similar, but distinct board. |
| 02:11.38 | systemdlete | I think mine is 1333, but idr |
| 02:11.59 | systemdlete | mine is just the M, not M+ |
| 02:12.11 | systemdlete | So you have a wraith also? |
| 02:12.15 | systemdlete | (EHeM) |
| 02:12.36 | EHeM | systemdlete: Yes. |
| 02:12.51 | gnarface | it's probably the type of thing where if your ram sticks are wider it won't fit, but some normal sized ones may fit |
| 02:12.51 | EHeM | isn't interested in OC, but instead noise. |
| 02:13.34 | systemdlete | thought he was simply getting a nice, quiet, fast fan. |
| 02:13.41 | gnarface | the ram might have to go in before the fan |
| 02:13.45 | gnarface | at least, that one stick on the left |
| 02:13.53 | systemdlete | 12GB |
| 02:14.47 | systemdlete | Well, with EHeM's input, it sounds like this is worth a shot. Does your board have 4 slots, and are you using the closest slot? |
| 02:16.09 | systemdlete | didn't realize how big the monster is |
| 02:17.10 | systemdlete | It's 4 sticks of Hyper X blue, if that helps. It comes with the heat sinks (I thought it was good to buy a little bit upscale just for the heat dissapation) |
| 02:17.44 | EHeM | I'm merely using 2 slots, but it looked like I could potentially use all 4, but adding additional memory was going to require removing the heatsink/fan. |
| 02:18.00 | gnarface | the heatsyncs might be the difference between the sticks fitting under the cpu cooler in the left slot or not |
| 02:18.37 | systemdlete | And I've got about 4 fans in the box, including one attached to the back of my Kingwin 4 drive disk rack -- a 120MM, and another 120MM on the back of the case, and an 60 or 80mm (idr) in the front below the kingwin |
| 02:19.03 | systemdlete | of course, the psu has one and the existing cpu has one, but the cpu fan is just an 80mm I think |
| 02:19.05 | gnarface | on the plus side, stock RAM heatsyncs are often known to be worse than nothing at all, so if it's just the RAM heatsyncs in the way, maybe you can peel them off and go |
| 02:19.33 | systemdlete | :( |
| 02:19.40 | gnarface | i know, it's not fair |
| 02:19.46 | EHeM | The memory modules I've got are "normal" sized without heat sinks; the extra heat sinks may kill it for you, could be larger modules could also be the difference. |
| 02:20.20 | gnarface | systemdlete: they actually sell "low-profile" RAM these days, too. maybe you could even find a friend with some that is otherwise the same spec, then trade? |
| 02:20.38 | systemdlete | Friend? What is this... "friend" thingy? |
| 02:20.47 | gnarface | business associate? |
| 02:21.02 | gnarface | eh, it's a long shot, i know |
| 02:21.30 | gnarface | i had a long NVidia card that ran into the ram slots once |
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| 02:21.40 | systemdlete | well. I think the first thing to do is TRY it. See how bad it actually is. Maybe liberate one or two of the sticks from their coverings |
| 02:21.53 | gnarface | but all it hit was one of the lower plastic clips, so just sawed that part off and went with it |
| 02:22.05 | systemdlete | sheesh. |
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| 02:22.25 | systemdlete | "It was that close, 99" |
| 02:22.39 | systemdlete | I may have to get creative. |
| 02:22.42 | EHeM | Simply trying seems like a reasonable plan. |
| 02:22.50 | systemdlete | EHeM, you think? LOL |
| 02:23.42 | systemdlete | One thing I did not think of checking was the jump in Wattage from 95 to 125 -- I'm guessing that is the source of the additional heat, requiring the higher capacity fan? |
| 02:23.43 | gnarface | you got some rubbing alcohol on hand? |
| 02:23.51 | systemdlete | No, but I could get some |
| 02:24.15 | gnarface | make sure it's not the crappy 2% stuff. you go into the pharmacy section and buy the +93% stuff from the glass cabinet. |
| 02:24.28 | gnarface | that will clean off any heatsync goo |
| 02:24.48 | gnarface | just that and a paper towel |
| 02:25.10 | EHeM | Problem with the AMD thermal compound is it acts as a glue, I've managed to remove AMD processors from their sockets merely when pulling out the heatsink/fan. |
| 02:25.21 | gnarface | usually it's not actually the heatsyncs that limit heat dissipation, but rather the stock thermal compound they use (usually not even the compound so much as the fact they mix it with glue and use too much) |
| 02:25.33 | systemdlete | EHeM: My experience with AMD also! |
| 02:25.56 | gnarface | yea i like to clean that stuff off and put arctic silver in there |
| 02:26.03 | systemdlete | I think this processor comes pre-gooed |
| 02:26.11 | gnarface | but the trick is not using too much, really |
| 02:26.32 | EHeM | One it was stuck so tightly that I was completely unable to get it to detach even with quite a bit of force. |
| 02:26.51 | systemdlete | When I removed the X2 to upgrade to the (current) x6, the cpu came right out with the rest of the assembly. |
| 02:27.06 | systemdlete | and it was HOT. I had to wait a while before attempting to separate them |
| 02:27.22 | gnarface | we should take the hardware discussion to #debianfork |
| 02:27.34 | systemdlete | yeah, ok meet you there... |
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| 08:49.35 | drizzt | Hi ! |
| 08:49.57 | drizzt | I noticed that ceres is no more in Index of /merged/dists |
| 08:50.09 | drizzt | only found unstable |
| 08:50.15 | drizzt | is there a reason ? |
| 08:50.23 | drizzt | (on http://deb.devuan.org/) |
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| 08:58.10 | xinomilo_ | drizzt, probably some issue with dists symlinks. there's a mailing list[dng] thread about it. you can use `unstable` till its fixed. |
| 08:58.57 | drizzt | xinomilo_: that's what I'm currently doing, but the goal was to report the issue |
| 08:59.09 | drizzt | then if it's already done, it's OK :) |
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| 10:01.18 | tierce_ | does anyone have issues displaying .woff and .woff2 fonts on Firefox-ESR from the default Devuan ASCIIÂ repository ? |
| 10:04.12 | KatolaZ | tierce_: are those canine fonts? :D |
| 10:05.25 | tierce_ | KatolaZ, yep ⦠they bites the nice icons and replaces them with text strings. Bad woff ! :p |
| 10:06.50 | KatolaZ | I wonder whether there are any .meow or .roar fonts around :P |
| 10:11.10 | tierce_ | found the solution, my browser.display:use_document_fonts was set to 0 in about:config |
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| 10:43.09 | filipdevuan_ | hey |
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| 12:09.36 | filipdevuan_ | hey |
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| 14:23.10 | bleb | man git rm looks up git-rm(1), not git(1) and rm(1) |
| 14:23.13 | bleb | what is this trash? |
| 14:23.20 | bleb | man is aware of git commands? |
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| 14:27.58 | errandir1 | is bash completion messing it up? |
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| 14:30.57 | pixelherodev | What's up with https://us.deb.devuan.org/ ? |
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| 14:34.58 | pixelherodev | Something off with the certificate? |
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| 14:39.58 | KatolaZ | pixelherodev: *.deb.devuan.org has never had support for HTTPS |
| 14:40.24 | bleb | errandir1: i thought it was bash completion at first |
| 14:40.30 | bleb | but it persists with sh(1) |
| 14:40.37 | pixelherodev | ... ohhh thanks |
| 14:40.54 | pixelherodev | ... that raises the question of why it was ever set to use https in sources.list, 'cause I haven't touched that before today |
| 14:43.59 | KatolaZ | pixelherodev: you must have changed it manually |
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| 14:46.43 | pixelherodev | I realize that - probably did it without thinking about it months ago |
| 14:47.03 | pixelherodev | ...just to confirm, http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged/ should be fine right? |
| 14:47.59 | pixelherodev | ...oh nvm |
| 14:48.11 | pixelherodev | Apparently "testing" isn't valid as a version or sources.list |
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| 15:29.32 | fbt | bleb, first and simplest guess: it just checks if a man file like that exists. |
| 15:30.27 | fbt | Yep, just look for *-* man files and try it :) |
| 15:30.56 | fbt | `man wicd client` gives me `man wicd-client` |
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| 15:32.06 | fbt | It checks for a $1-$2 man, but not $1-$2-$3, heh. |
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| 15:54.34 | EHeM | `git` has an "rm" command to remove files from a repository, as the git-doc package includes a man page "git-rm.1.gz", `man git rm` will give you that man page (`git help rm` also takes you to the same place). |
| 15:55.12 | EHeM | Not a bash feature, but the git documentation making use of how `man` functions. |
| 15:57.00 | EHeM | In other news as of right now "stable" is still missing. |
| 15:58.32 | EHeM | If the excuse of "beowulf" is about to replace "ascii" in the role of "stable"; that is not entirely unreasonable, but there should be a maximum downtime of 24 hours. |
| 15:59.19 | EHeM | I cannot speak for others, but I would have no objections to links for "stable" getting updated a few hours after "beowulf" was officially released. |
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| 16:01.18 | EHeM | I would theorize "testing" may very well have been valid (as it has long been a pseudo-release allowed for Debian), but very possibly disappeared at the same time "stable" did. |
| 16:01.31 | errandir1 | I see man has a --no-subpages option to avoid showing git-rm |
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| 18:18.54 | fbt | EHeM, wicd-client is not mentioned in wicd, but you still get to do `man wicd client` and get to wicd-client. |
| 18:19.22 | fbt | It just checks if a file like `$1-$2.blah.man` exists, it seems. |
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| 20:12.30 | fsmithred | EHeM, which links are you talking about? the ones in /merged or the ones in /devuan? |
| 20:22.13 | golinux | fsmithred: I had the same thought but have tired of trying to get that point across. |
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| 20:33.05 | fsmithred | I don't even understand why we have those links |
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| 20:43.13 | golinux | So that users don't have to changes their sources |
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| 20:43.49 | fsmithred | but that doesn't work in devuan |
| 20:44.05 | fsmithred | or as mentioned, it can work if you're careful |
| 20:44.13 | fsmithred | but that's a nightmare for the help desk |
| 20:45.48 | golinux | Some users haven't gotten that memo |
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| 21:47.40 | EHeM | I copied a line from sources.list several days ago, "deb http://us.deb.devuan.org/merged/ stable main"; I do note that if you select any of the links in /merged/ in a web browser all of them give 404 despite showing differing sizes. |
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| 21:49.42 | EHeM | Debian has been strongly pushing people away from stable for a decade, at this point anyone still using stable is almost certainly aware of the downsides and is prepared to deal with them. |
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| 21:57.35 | EHeM | No one has asked, but dealing with the weakness is pretty simple: |
| 21:58.32 | fsmithred | which weakness? |
| 21:59.05 | EHeM | Whenever it is time to do an update do `apt-get update ; apt-get -s upgrade` and check the output isn't too huge, if you're upgrading a large number of packages then it is time to go back to the website and read about special instructions for upgrading between distribution versions. |
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| 22:00.10 | fsmithred | EHeM, I suspect those links will be returned soon, but I can't guarantee it. |
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| 22:00.53 | fsmithred | when the time comes and buster goes stable while beowulf is not fully ready, I ask you to please let us know what kind of problems you run into. |
| 22:01.08 | fsmithred | in case others run into the same |
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| 22:03.17 | EHeM | fsmithred: I certainly hope so, but I believe a 1 line report roughly every 24 hours is reasonable? |
| 22:03.51 | EHeM | fsmithred: I'll certainly be reportting if such occurs, but that is rather hard to accomplish with a symbolic link... |
| 22:03.54 | fsmithred | report from one of the devs you mean? |
| 22:04.02 | fsmithred | or report from you? |
| 22:04.51 | EHeM | 1 line every 24 hours from me stating it is still broken (which as of several hours ago it still was), I'll also offer a report of it being fixed. |
| 22:05.09 | fsmithred | yeah, that's reasonable |
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| 22:08.00 | fsmithred | and yeah, -s is a good friend of mine. In addition to checking instructions on major upgrade, also make sure you understand pinning. You'll probably need to pin a few packages to ascii versions. |
| 22:11.41 | Evilham | It's likely a broken link |
| 22:13.52 | Evilham | But there is zero info about how when and what exactly was done to pkgmaster |
| 22:14.08 | Evilham | Sad but plain true |
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| 22:16.03 | fsmithred | I have to go out for a few minutes. I'll be back. |
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| 22:54.42 | rrq | re pkgmaster: it appears those links are there, but in the wrong place; not under "dists" but rather siblings to "dists" (who/why is not told) |
| 22:55.10 | rrq | happened 28 May by the looks of it |
| 22:58.15 | EHeM | rrq: Possibly, but noticing how the timestamps inside dists/ are 26-May-2019, I suspect it may have happened 26-May-2019 and someone tried to undo/restore it on 28-May-2019. |
| 22:58.51 | fsmithred | that sounds about right |
| 22:59.41 | fsmithred | ascii-security was not getting updates in pkgmaster |
| 23:00.05 | fsmithred | and I told parazyd about it |
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| 23:27.21 | fsmithred | EHeM, try another update, please. I just did one, but I'm using codenames. |
| 23:29.53 | EHeM | Completed successfully. |
| 23:30.15 | fsmithred | cool. I'm getting errors on ceres, but everything else looks good. |
| 23:30.29 | fsmithred | thanks for the prodding. |
| 23:31.17 | fsmithred | you're using pkgmaster or a mirror? |
| 23:32.11 | EHeM | Yes, us.deb.devuan.org (yes, right now it is a DNS round-robin of servers in Germany, but I /try/ to save bandwidth). |
| 23:33.58 | fsmithred | ok, ceres is working if I use pkgmaster. Maybe the mirror I was using needs to catch up. |
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| 23:35.11 | EHeM | I concur, seems mirror.checkdomain.de is a bit behind. |
| 23:35.53 | fsmithred | if I remember correctly, that can take a few hours |
| 23:36.10 | EHeM | Would not surprise me. |
| 23:36.46 | Evilham | EHeM: https://dev1.cloud/mirrors |
| 23:36.55 | Evilham | Theoretically up to 3 hours |
| 23:37.59 | EHeM | Unsurprising, just reportting it worked for at least one of the servers and currently fails for some. |
| 23:38.52 | fsmithred | I'm not sure we're using different mirrors. Mine is DE also. |
| 23:42.41 | Evilham | Yup, check the url |
| 23:42.54 | Evilham | If it still looks like that in 3 hours, that may be an issue |
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| 23:43.04 | Evilham | But I doubt it :-) |
| 23:50.20 | fsmithred | OK, no errors now. |
| 23:52.25 | Evilham | There should still be a few while using deb.devuan.org |
| 23:55.29 | fsmithred | I'm using both deb.devuan and auto.mirror |