| 00:12.02 | gnarface | barrett9h: you're not using a local DNS server, are you? if you are, make sure that machine has ntpd running too... |
| 00:46.37 | Xenguy | gnarface: Do you use unbound at all? |
| 00:49.53 | Xenguy | fsmithred: I hope you are a proud fellow, I remember the pictures I saw of you folks, and it was just lovely to see |
| 00:49.54 | gnarface | Xenguy: no, just using bind9 |
| 00:50.58 | Xenguy | gnarface: OK, just checking, I'm looking at this unbound DNS tool which claims to be a caching DNS thingie |
| 00:51.19 | gnarface | Xenguy: i used to use dnsmasq for that |
| 00:51.46 | Xenguy | Yeah, this unbound sounds more recent/NG |
| 00:52.12 | Xenguy | For better or for worse |
| 00:55.37 | fsmithred | I think I'm using unbound |
| 00:56.01 | fsmithred | I believe I installed it and forgot all about it |
| 00:56.43 | fsmithred | ok, it's installed and running. How do I know if it's helping? |
| 00:57.40 | gnarface | DNS lookups will be nearly instantaneous |
| 00:58.07 | gnarface | whereas your common cheap ISP might have overloaded DNS servers that easily add 50-100ms to lookups |
| 00:58.27 | fsmithred | I can run nslookup to check that? |
| 00:58.34 | gnarface | sure |
| 00:59.28 | fsmithred | time says 0.294s |
| 00:59.43 | gnarface | you mean ms? |
| 00:59.58 | fsmithred | real0m0.029s |
| 01:00.27 | fsmithred | different number 'cause it was a different run |
| 01:00.38 | fsmithred | how is that read? |
| 01:01.00 | gnarface | hmm. maybe nslookup isn't the best test |
| 01:01.45 | gnarface | where you'll typically notice a big difference is stuff like log parsing involving reverse name lookups in batches and such |
| 01:02.15 | gnarface | but like i said, if your ISP's DNS servers are really slow, you could actually notice the difference just clicking on links in firefox |
| 01:02.31 | fsmithred | well, I think they suck for other reasons than slowness |
| 01:03.28 | fsmithred | browsing in firefox has seemed unusually slow for about the last year or so. Maybe a little longer. |
| 01:04.25 | specing | fsmithred: do you have nscd? |
| 01:05.15 | fsmithred | ok, I just clicked on some links I haven't been to in a long time, and they loaded very quickly. |
| 01:05.33 | fsmithred | no ncsd |
| 01:05.37 | fsmithred | don't know about it |
| 01:06.00 | specing | fsmithred: its glibc's resolver |
| 01:06.35 | Xenguy | Enough, I'm watching the last ever episode of GoT |
| 01:07.43 | Xenguy | The soap opera we're all allowed to talk about |
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| 01:24.23 | barrett9h | slvr, gnarface: other machines on my local network work ok. even my own machine, running a liveusb distro. so the problem is with the software on my pc, not the router or my ip. (and no, i'm not using a local dns. and the problem is not the dns anyway) |
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| 01:25.54 | barrett9h | maybe I'll try this tcpdump thing later. I really have a lot of work to do now.. |
| 01:29.40 | Xenguy | Cheers |
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| 02:06.28 | Syllin | anyone know how to get sftp:// working with thunar? all the docs online i see are for gnome |
| 02:06.47 | Syllin | presently, i get a red "no way" icon when i type "sftp://me@server.net//" |
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| 02:13.31 | gnarface | Syllin: i don't use thunar, but could it simply be a plugin or module of some sort that is in another package you need to install? |
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| 04:21.28 | systemdlete | does devuan always install systems for sudo rather than su, if taking all the instalation ISO defaults? |
| 04:21.49 | systemdlete | has it always been that way on devuan, at least ascii? |
| 04:22.15 | systemdlete | (silly question I know, but I'm puzzled by something here) |
| 04:25.04 | gnarface | it has been so long since i've done a non-expert-mode install that i honestly don't know |
| 04:25.08 | gnarface | in expert mode it asks you though |
| 04:25.24 | gnarface | whether to create a root account password or not |
| 04:25.27 | gnarface | i'm pretty sure anyway |
| 04:26.04 | systemdlete | ok, thanks. That might be the difference. I installed test box with root account and this box without it (I am guessing) |
| 04:28.59 | systemdlete | gotta take down my connection for a moment... |
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| 04:50.19 | golinux | systemdlete: su is the default in Devuan/Debian. You have to configure it to use sudo (which I never have) |
| 04:50.53 | systemdlete | I used the installer, but not in expert mode. Somehow I have sudo, not a root login |
| 04:51.21 | systemdlete | I don't recall being asked. I only installed ascii on my main box a few days ago (friday I think) |
| 04:52.22 | systemdlete | but actually, I am more interested in my vbox question. What prevents me from installing the debian version from virtualbox.org? |
| 04:53.15 | gnarface | probably requires systemd |
| 04:53.25 | systemdlete | what I figured... |
| 04:53.31 | gnarface | i think the sudo thing might really be linked to whether you create a root password or not. i think it infers what you want from that |
| 04:54.04 | systemdlete | sure. I don't remember if it asked me for a root password, only for the admin user password, during the install |
| 04:54.32 | systemdlete | the only "expert" task I performed during install was the partitioning step. |
| 04:54.44 | systemdlete | Everything else I more or less chose defaults. |
| 04:54.54 | gnarface | hmm |
| 04:55.07 | gnarface | maybe it's that it asks whether you want to create a non-root user, and infers from THAT |
| 04:55.10 | gnarface | i am not sure |
| 04:55.31 | gnarface | i don't remember it ever being that confusing though, i'm sure if you go through it again paying attention to that step it'll make more sense though |
| 04:56.07 | systemdlete | well, this is really a bit of a nit I can always run passwd in a "sudo bash" (which is how I get a root env anyway) |
| 04:56.14 | gnarface | people in here have a solution to the virtualbox thing too |
| 04:56.26 | systemdlete | it's called libvirt and KVM |
| 04:56.28 | systemdlete | I know. |
| 04:56.50 | systemdlete | or xen, maybe. |
| 04:56.54 | gnarface | no no, i think they actually have a virtualbox solution, though it may be just to use the wheezy version. |
| 04:57.15 | gnarface | my advise is to use qemu-kvm though, yes |
| 04:57.35 | gnarface | though i never liked libvirt and quickly grew out of it while trying to debug it |
| 04:57.53 | systemdlete | eh, no. I wouldn't. For one thing, getting vbox support will be an uphill battle. And sometimes you have to get support for hairy issues, ones only they can help you with. |
| 04:58.35 | systemdlete | If you're more than about 2 or 3 point releases behind either 5.2 or 6.0 (or whatever versions they are supporting), they will push you to upgrade. |
| 04:58.45 | gnarface | someone might have built a updated non-systemd version |
| 04:58.52 | gnarface | of virtualbox |
| 04:58.56 | systemdlete | So I prefer to stay somewhat current. |
| 04:59.16 | systemdlete | someone at devuan? Or someone somewhere else? |
| 04:59.36 | gnarface | well, someone who hangs out in this channel |
| 04:59.44 | systemdlete | oh, ok. |
| 04:59.45 | systemdlete | :) |
| 05:00.04 | gnarface | i just remember that it has come up before |
| 05:00.40 | systemdlete | I think the worst I've seen installing from virtualbox.org are some horror messages about systemctl not found. But it completes without incident and the tool runs fine. |
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| 05:00.53 | systemdlete | s/horror/error/ |
| 05:01.27 | gnarface | sometimes the bigger risk is just package dependency breakage |
| 05:01.43 | gnarface | like, it might work fine now, but sabotage a later update/upgrade of other stuff |
| 05:02.11 | gnarface | especially if you accidentally get other stuff from their repo |
| 05:02.24 | gnarface | like if it replaces some additional devuan native packages with the debian ones |
| 05:02.28 | systemdlete | I don't have any of that with the other distros, like CentOS. I installed the generic version (which is really CentOS) on hyperbola (which is nonsystemd arch linux) without a problem |
| 05:02.55 | gnarface | well it often doesn't become apparent until you're upgrading to a new release |
| 05:03.06 | systemdlete | It doesn't do that. It only offers their package, built against the various platforms |
| 05:03.16 | gnarface | this is general advise against mixing repos and distros, i have no virtualbox-specific experience here |
| 05:03.36 | gnarface | (the debian sid version of wine-staging works fine on devuan ceres too) |
| 05:04.08 | systemdlete | First off, virtualbox.org builds its software package against "standard" distros, and even downstream spins work OK with it |
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| 05:04.28 | gnarface | eh, as long as you're sure, just try it |
| 05:04.36 | gnarface | but don't forget i recommended you make a backup first :) |
| 05:04.55 | gnarface | i've nuked a couple debian installs in my day |
| 05:05.01 | gnarface | cavalierly mixing repos |
| 05:05.13 | gnarface | (and it's rarely obvious until months later) |
| 05:05.26 | systemdlete | I mean, I could ask them. But, see, this is where the chicken-and-egg comes in. They won't be thrilled to assist me in installing an old point release |
| 05:05.42 | golinux | systemdlete: I have http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ in my sources.list and it works just fine. |
| 05:05.42 | gnarface | yea and they'll probably give you attitude for not using debian |
| 05:05.44 | systemdlete | virtualbox doesn't really provide a repo, per se |
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| 05:06.44 | systemdlete | How did WE become the Unix weirdos? It's the systemd crowd that should be made to cower, not us. |
| 05:06.57 | gnarface | we don't have a megacorp funding us |
| 05:07.23 | golinux | This is getting into political OT guys . . . |
| 05:07.30 | gnarface | good point |
| 05:07.46 | systemdlete | golinux: It's really about support. Sorry for getting OT |
| 05:08.15 | systemdlete | but really, it's the whole reason we are here, and there is a distro. |
| 05:08.49 | systemdlete | but golinux. I'll try adding that to my sources. I wouldn't think there'd be a problem. |
| 05:08.50 | golinux | Yeah I know. I've been at it here for over 4 years. |
| 05:09.06 | systemdlete | Is virtualbox a package in debian also, or just devuan? |
| 05:09.11 | golinux | I have non-free and contrib enabled too |
| 05:09.50 | golinux | It comes directly from Oracle. At least that's where I get it because I need usb support. |
| 05:10.14 | golinux | I think that Devuan has a version in contib or backports or both. |
| 05:10.37 | golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ is your friend. |
| 05:11.29 | systemdlete | The repository 'http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian ascii Release' does not have a Release file. |
| 05:12.22 | systemdlete | my sources.list line I added: |
| 05:12.42 | systemdlete | deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ ascii main non-free |
| 05:12.56 | systemdlete | (I have no idea if that's even half-right |
| 05:14.15 | rrq | http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian stretch/contrib |
| 05:14.28 | systemdlete | for ascii? |
| 05:14.31 | systemdlete | ok, thanks |
| 05:14.37 | rrq | that gives you 6.0.8-130520~Debian~stretch |
| 05:14.58 | rrq | there's also http://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres/contrib |
| 05:15.10 | rrq | which gives 6.0.8-dfsg-4 |
| 05:15.18 | golinux | Look in backports in ascii |
| 05:15.34 | rrq | yes that's 5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1 |
| 05:15.39 | golinux | [ascii-backports] virtualbox-5.2.24-dfsg-4~bpo9+1 |
| 05:15.49 | golinux | You're too fast . . . |
| 05:16.04 | systemdlete | so now my deb line is: |
| 05:16.07 | rrq | or jessie/contrib which is 4.3.36-dfsg-1+deb8u1 |
| 05:16.17 | systemdlete | deb http://download.virtualbox.org/virtualbox/debian/ stretch/contrib |
| 05:16.31 | systemdlete | it fails with a syntax error or something. It doesn't like that |
| 05:16.46 | golinux | No / between stretch and contrib |
| 05:17.14 | rrq | (gnarface mentioned backups) |
| 05:18.01 | systemdlete | backups of what -- GBs of VM images? |
| 05:18.17 | systemdlete | not likely. At least not here. |
| 05:18.56 | systemdlete | good advice in most circumstances, but here I'd only backup the xml and other config files. I don't have space for the images |
| 05:19.44 | systemdlete | I've used the VirtualBox versions from their site on other distros without problems in the past. I doubt there could be that much incompatibility. |
| 05:20.20 | systemdlete | Besides, I've actually just copied all my VMs from another RAID so there are plenty of copies that are only a few days old anyway. |
| 05:20.48 | systemdlete | now, it is complaining that there is no public key and it can't authenticate |
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| 05:26.39 | systemdlete | rrq: vbox 4 is no longer supported and hasn't been for a couple of years |
| 05:27.06 | systemdlete | they only support their latest version and one back. As soon as they put out a new version, like 6.0, they kill 4. |
| 05:27.14 | systemdlete | r.x |
| 05:27.17 | systemdlete | 4.x |
| 05:27.43 | systemdlete | I would not recommend anyone use that old a version of vbox given their support policy. |
| 05:36.18 | systemdlete | On the devuan.org page, it might be helpful to include the debian release number. I sometimes forget which is which, given I am not a longtime debian user (I'm a pre-RH7/CentOS7 refugee) |
| 05:36.36 | systemdlete | so I am not as familiar with the release numbers and need a head jogger sometimes |
| 05:36.42 | systemdlete | just a suggestion |
| 05:39.11 | systemdlete | they give a link for the debian 8 public key, but not debian 9 |
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| 07:52.59 | systemdlete | printer test page (cups) still shows debian logo. No biggie, just saying. |
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| 10:11.41 | GyrosGeier | hi |
| 10:12.11 | GyrosGeier | I have a Debian box and would like to use pbuilder to compile packages in a Devuan chroot |
| 10:13.02 | GyrosGeier | in principle, if systemd isn't available, regular debootstrap should find a working installation set from Devuan sources |
| 10:13.16 | GyrosGeier | but it's missing an installation script for "ascii" |
| 10:14.06 | KatolaZ | GyrosGeier: get the ascii script from the devuan package for debootstrap |
| 10:14.20 | GyrosGeier | mmh |
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| 10:14.45 | GyrosGeier | can that package still bootstrap Debian images? |
| 10:14.51 | KatolaZ | sure it can |
| 10:15.08 | GyrosGeier | because if I don't break the autobuilder that way, I can just take the whole debootstrap package from Devuan |
| 10:17.10 | GyrosGeier | cool, seems to work |
| 10:17.12 | GyrosGeier | thanks! |
| 10:27.22 | KatolaZ | np |
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| 11:05.46 | Evilham | systemdlete: you can propose changes to the webpage in the form of 'Merge Requests' :-D http://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www/ |
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| 13:32.45 | man_in_shack | waddles around |
| 13:32.55 | man_in_shack | anyone use adb on devuan in here? |
| 13:46.46 | rrq | it happens, yes |
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| 14:19.55 | man_in_shack | whee netsplit |
| 14:20.12 | man_in_shack | so i'm getting an error with adb |
| 14:20.20 | man_in_shack | error: could not install *smartsocket* listener: Cannot assign requested address |
| 14:20.36 | man_in_shack | anyone encountered this before? |
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| 16:42.56 | golinux_ | <systemdlete> said: printer test page (cups) still shows debian logo. No biggie, just saying. |
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| 16:44.05 | golinux_ | Someone prepared Devuan printer test pages some time ago. No one has taken up the task to fork and maintain the cups pkgs required to fix it. |
| 16:45.22 | golinux | Cosmetic changes are not a high priority. |
| 16:46.14 | Evilham | I find branding-only package forks silly where not strictly necessary, it opens the door for unmaintained old debs that are full of security bugs fixed somewhere else |
| 16:46.33 | Evilham | so, if that's the only issue with cupsd, that's fine :-p |
| 16:47.54 | golinux | Exactly. |
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| 18:34.28 | Syllin | anyone else having problems with wifi disconnected when waking from sleep or suspend? |
| 18:34.42 | Syllin | i have to manually go in and reconnect in the wicd UI |
| 18:36.02 | Syllin | man_in_shack do you mean android debug bridge? try `sudo adb kill-server; sudo adb start-server` to make sure the daemon is running as root |
| 18:38.07 | fsmithred | Syllin, yeah lose connection when I suspend |
| 18:38.24 | fsmithred | I think it happens with wired connection, too |
| 18:47.02 | golinux | My wired connection comes right back up |
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| 18:54.24 | furrywolf | wicd is very bad at automatically reconnecting to anything, ever. for sleep/suspend, I find it only reconnects if it's _not_ open at the time. |
| 18:54.38 | furrywolf | I've been looking for something else to use. |
| 18:55.18 | fsmithred | I've heard good things about connman |
| 18:55.34 | furrywolf | conmen always say good things about themselves. :P |
| 18:55.39 | specing | use badvpn-ncd |
| 18:55.41 | fsmithred | lol |
| 18:56.18 | fsmithred | bbiab |
| 18:57.48 | golinux | furrywolf: wired wicd works just fine here |
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| 18:58.41 | furrywolf | heh, I had to explicitly make wicd not touch my wired interface, by giving it a fake interface name, because its incompetence-by-design broke my wired if I let it touch it. |
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| 19:33.30 | MinceR | > wicd is very bad at automatically reconnecting to anything, ever. |
| 19:33.36 | MinceR | not as bad as networkmanager! :> |
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| 19:39.29 | slvr | managing wpa-supplicient configs manually works well if wicd is a pain |
| 19:41.22 | MinceR | wpa_cli crashes a lot, though |
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| 22:57.57 | man_in_shack | Syllin: turns out my loopback network device somehow wasn't getting an ip |
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| 23:04.22 | djph | lo shouldn't "get" an IP |
| 23:07.48 | jonadab | Doesn't it normally get 127.0.0.1 ? |
| 23:20.47 | man_in_shack | ^ |
| 23:20.50 | man_in_shack | what jonadab said |
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