| 00:02.41 | *** join/#devuan pankerini (~pankerini@189.230.199.164) |
| 00:13.17 | *** join/#devuan cd (~none@gateway/tor-sasl/cd) |
| 00:17.48 | *** join/#devuan melemont (~mo@50.38.43.128) |
| 00:19.11 | mns` | by this time, i hope the devuan domain have been pointed to another server ... |
| 00:19.30 | KatolaZ | mns`: have a look at /. |
| 00:19.40 | mns` | ok |
| 00:19.48 | KatolaZ | and at the calendar |
| 00:22.11 | mns` | Is it a april fools joke? |
| 00:22.27 | *** join/#devuan Tazy (nobody@raccoons.tech) |
| 00:23.20 | KatolaZ | mns`: date -d @1554080659 |
| 00:23.32 | mns` | because I'm not laughing |
| 00:23.35 | mns` | i saw that |
| 00:23.57 | *** join/#devuan radikal (~radikal@37.222.220.8) |
| 00:24.55 | *** join/#devuan opal (~wowaname@gateway/tor-sasl/opal) |
| 00:24.57 | opal | lol |
| 00:25.15 | opal | glad to see devuan has switched to gopher Kappa |
| 00:31.35 | golinux | mns`: I'm not laughing either |
| 00:38.13 | bluemarlin | you sure those two primes aren't a hint - like you should construct private key from them and access the servers? |
| 00:39.03 | KatolaZ | bluemarlin: date -d @1554080659 |
| 00:39.06 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 00:39.34 | bluemarlin | ah |
| 00:41.34 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 00:42.25 | *** join/#devuan Human_G33k (~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8) |
| 00:47.46 | *** join/#devuan mdrights (~user@ip230.ip-51-68-193.eu) |
| 00:50.49 | se7en | So is this or is this not a joke by devuan |
| 00:50.58 | se7en | Or is it by a malicious hacker for april fools day |
| 00:51.34 | se7en | KatolaZ: |
| 00:51.40 | KatolaZ | se7en: wazzup? |
| 00:51.55 | se7en | is this a joke by Devuan or is it by a malicious actor for april fools day |
| 00:52.02 | se7en | I know of hacking groups hacking websites for april fools day |
| 00:52.02 | KatolaZ | $ date -d @1554080659 |
| 00:52.15 | se7en | Yeah, I know |
| 00:52.19 | KatolaZ | se7en: do you have any contact with green hat hackers? |
| 00:52.23 | se7en | no |
| 00:52.28 | se7en | I have never heard the term befoee |
| 00:52.36 | KatolaZ | I see |
| 00:52.44 | se7en | I am just unsure if this is a joke by Devuan or if it is by another party |
| 00:52.52 | KatolaZ | $ date -d @1554080659 |
| 00:52.52 | bluemarlin | i would expect them to operate from underground irish pub though |
| 00:53.03 | se7en | KatolaZ: yeah I know |
| 00:53.09 | se7en | [17:51 se7en@lappy ~] > date -d @1554080659 |
| 00:53.11 | se7en | Sun Mar 31 18:04:19 PDT 2019 |
| 00:53.13 | se7en | April Fools Day |
| 00:53.15 | se7en | I know |
| 00:53.20 | se7en | But is it by you |
| 00:53.22 | KatolaZ | bluemarlin: you never know, it could be from a lagune |
| 00:53.22 | mns` | by now, i guess its a 'inside job' joke |
| 00:53.23 | se7en | or is it by a hacker |
| 00:53.42 | KatolaZ | se7en: the pwned page says "Green Hat Hackers" |
| 00:54.02 | KatolaZ | so it must be form some hacker of sort |
| 00:54.49 | se7en | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:57.33 | KatolaZ | bluemarlin: if anybody asks, just tell them `date -d @1554080659` |
| 00:57.34 | KatolaZ | o/ |
| 01:00.15 | se7en | KatolaZ: you need to add a -u to that |
| 01:00.40 | KatolaZ | se7en: I just need a good sleep ;P |
| 01:02.48 | Tazy | good jolly, even set up a gopher server. |
| 01:04.01 | bluemarlin | KatolaZ: enjoy sleep, you got a twisted sense of humor :) |
| 01:08.25 | roo^y | sorry to spam, but it was working fine before i ruined it with -u (or where exactly does the -u go) |
| 01:08.45 | roo^y | date -d @7779847 |
| 01:08.45 | roo^y | Wed Apr 1 11:04:07 AEST 1970 |
| 01:08.45 | roo^y | date -d -u @7779847 |
| 01:08.45 | roo^y | date: the argument â@7779847â lacks a leading '+'; |
| 01:08.45 | roo^y | when using an option to specify date(s), any non-option |
| 01:08.46 | roo^y | argument must be a format string beginning with '+' |
| 01:08.46 | roo^y | Try 'date --help' for more information. |
| 01:09.16 | *** join/#devuan pankerini (~pankerini@189.230.199.164) |
| 01:09.23 | Tazy | too bad only the main site is accessible ;) |
| 01:09.52 | roo^y | i got a flooding warning, so i'm not sure if my 7 lines posted. i'll leave it at that |
| 01:10.09 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 01:11.10 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 01:12.44 | redrick | roo^y: Your seven lines of wisdom were transmitted. |
| 01:13.03 | roo^y | thx :) |
| 01:15.39 | redrick | -u is for UTC. (I for one welcome our Greenwich overlords.) |
| 01:16.13 | redrick | Not that there's anything wrong with AEST. |
| 01:17.31 | redrick | Though in many ways, truth is longitude-dependent, you may perceive. |
| 01:18.57 | Jjp137 | roo^y, try: date -ud @7779847 |
| 01:19.57 | redrick | I mean, if I observed AEST, at teatime it'd be the previous night, and that would never do. |
| 01:20.05 | roo^y | ok. we go back to AEST in a week. currently at the end of AEDT, after summer |
| 01:20.44 | roo^y | date -ud @7779847 |
| 01:20.45 | roo^y | Wed Apr 1 01:04:07 UTC 1970 |
| 01:21.00 | roo^y | this works! |
| 01:21.34 | redrick | Welcome to Greenwich. There's a pedestrian tunnel to the Docklands for your convenience. |
| 01:21.54 | roo^y | niiiiiiiice |
| 01:22.08 | redrick | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwich_foot_tunnel |
| 01:23.48 | redrick | roo^y: The AEST -> AEDT changeover date was presumbly earlier in 1970, FWIW. Date calculations are a special kind of hell for coders. |
| 01:25.27 | roo^y | i wrote these 6 lines to answer repeated questions |
| 01:25.43 | roo^y | It was worked out as typing the following into the terminal, populates april fools days |
| 01:25.43 | roo^y | date -ud @1554080659 |
| 01:25.43 | roo^y | Mon Apr 1 12:04:19 UTC 2019 |
| 01:25.55 | roo^y | date -ud @7779847 |
| 01:25.55 | roo^y | Wed Apr 1 11:04:07 UTC 1970 |
| 01:25.55 | roo^y | *note: the 4mins can represent Apr, & 19secs represent year. 70secs can't be populated, so 7secs is the next best thing |
| 01:25.57 | redrick | Et voila. |
| 01:26.16 | watchcat | .oO(green wich... green hat... another clue...) |
| 01:26.52 | redrick | ÎÏÏηκα! So to speak. |
| 01:27.45 | redrick | I was hoping it'd be questions like 'What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?' |
| 01:29.29 | *** join/#devuan Dsbeerf (~Dsbeerf@about/networking/255.255.255.255/Dsbeerf) |
| 01:29.40 | *** join/#devuan saptech (~saptech@unaffiliated/saptech) |
| 01:30.02 | watchcat | i propose that hencforth, the gopher should be the official devuan mascot. |
| 01:30.38 | redrick | And Minnesota the official Devuan Place to Not Go on Holiday. |
| 01:31.26 | redrick | (The protocol was named for the U. of Minnesota's mascot, in case the joke was too obscure.) |
| 01:32.20 | Dsbeerf | so those iso can be compromised ? |
| 01:34.23 | roo^y | Dsbeerf: the ISOs are safe (unlike the incident that happened to linux mint several yrs ago |
| 01:34.58 | Dsbeerf | roo^y, ok that what i was refering to |
| 01:35.04 | redrick | Dsbeerf: It's worth learning how to check gpg signatures on ISO checksums, then you wouldn't need to ask. |
| 01:35.14 | mns` | golinux: :| |
| 01:35.21 | watchcat | http://www.bakingdom.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/caddyshack-gopher.jpg |
| 01:35.55 | Dsbeerf | redrick, i admit |
| 01:35.55 | redrick | https://pastebin.com/1dX5XG7W |
| 01:36.08 | redrick | (URL illustrating how.) |
| 01:36.24 | Dsbeerf | redrick, thanks |
| 01:36.31 | redrick | Seriously, worth picking up the knack. |
| 01:37.13 | *** join/#devuan xcm (~xcm@ipa210.225.tellas.gr) |
| 01:38.12 | redrick | The one bit of humbug in that transcript is where I skip over how I found the signing key. |
| 01:42.48 | Dsbeerf | ok |
| 01:46.07 | redrick | I Web-searched around and found references to that key, chose to believe conditionally that the mentions weren't fraudulent, and fetched it from a keyserver. More ideally, one would be able to verifying key authenticity using gpg web of trust, but I evidently need to attend more keysignings for that. |
| 01:47.13 | redrick | Back in the 1990s, when the Linux community was small, we used to joke about keysignings letting us play 'Six degrees of Ted T'so.' |
| 01:48.40 | redrick | Anyway, even if signing key verification's a weak point, it's IMO always worth trying to vet ISO checksums. |
| 02:04.41 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 02:14.15 | Dsbeerf | yeah well is more that nothing |
| 02:21.11 | redrick | Well, it'd require a heck of a plan to get away with having a bogus key in the public keyservers for e-mail address repository@devuan.org, especially for significantly long. |
| 02:24.55 | redrick | Huh, just checked my verification transcript, and saw that the SHA256SUM file was signed with KatolaZ's key, not the Primary Devuan signing key. |
| 02:25.57 | redrick | But, anyway, as you say, a lot better than nothing. |
| 02:32.34 | *** join/#devuan unixman_home_ (~unixman2@unaffiliated/eracc) |
| 02:35.49 | Ryushin | Are the Devuan servers that got hacked VMs or physical hardware? |
| 02:38.04 | *** join/#devuan benjikun (~benji@cpe-172-74-14-58.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:38.12 | benjikun | is this a meme |
| 02:38.44 | benjikun | ??? |
| 02:39.13 | furrywolf | is your question nonsensical? |
| 02:40.02 | benjikun | seems like a brash april fools joke |
| 02:40.33 | xrogaan | It is. |
| 02:40.47 | benjikun | alright, thanks lol |
| 02:41.08 | Leander | this 1st april thing has to die |
| 02:41.15 | Ryushin | From the Devuan team or the hacker group? Not so sure about it being from the Devuan team. |
| 02:41.36 | xrogaan | At least they're not going political: https://www.tuxfamily.org/en/news/2019040100 |
| 02:41.44 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 02:41.57 | xrogaan | Ryushin: there is no green hat. |
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| 02:43.14 | opal | thanks for trolling me |
| 02:43.29 | opal | im gullible v.v |
| 02:43.37 | Ryushin | Well, reading on #devuan-dev, they don't seem to be impressed. |
| 02:43.42 | benjikun | time to actually start using gopher again :^) |
| 02:44.00 | Ryushin | Lets go back to 300 baud BBS. |
| 02:44.04 | opal | gopher doesnt strike me as well-engineered; imo we just need a slimmed-down http |
| 02:46.21 | plasma41 | opal: like HTTP/0.9? |
| 02:47.38 | opal | not sure. i definitely think http/2 and beyond are too geared toward webapps, hacks upon hacks, to be any good |
| 02:48.03 | opal | a lot of http/1.1+ headers for security can probably be easier managed with saner browser defaults, idk |
| 02:48.22 | furrywolf | I've been really tempted to write a news article about Trump and Pelosi's surprise marriage announcement for tomorrow. |
| 02:48.38 | opal | i think content security policies are their own brand of complexity that could cause as many issues as the things theyre trying to prevent |
| 02:49.06 | opal | i think anyone would agree that information such as useragent and referer are entirely arbitrary to keep in the protocol |
| 02:49.06 | plasma41 | I like that both Gopher and HTTP/0.9 are stateless protocols. No cookies |
| 02:49.22 | opal | cookies/auth is a good point |
| 02:49.33 | opal | do you think all of http should be authless and stateless |
| 02:49.56 | opal | im trying to move my stateful stuff off of the web browser. i use mail in its own client, irc obviously, xmpp |
| 02:50.04 | plasma41 | auth: yes. all other forms of state: no |
| 02:50.20 | opal | hm |
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| 04:55.04 | Beerbaron23 | The website is now a GopherH0le!! |
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| 06:25.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.devuan.org/pwned.html yeah! ;-P |
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| 06:38.05 | guido_g | glad you mentioned it, noone else did in the last 24h |
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| 06:46.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, I'm really fast today ;:-) |
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| 07:07.54 | KatolaZ | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html |
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| 07:12.02 | watchcat | yay. it just seemed to be too funny and benign to be real. :) |
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| 07:26.14 | ralpheeee | lost me as an end user ...good luck ! |
| 07:26.24 | *** part/#devuan ralpheeee (~ralphe@cable-78-34-76-170.nc.de) |
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| 07:27.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 07:27.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | @ ralpheeeeee |
| 07:27.34 | *** join/#devuan queip (~queip@unaffiliated/rezurus) |
| 07:28.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | KatolaZ: excellently pitched and designed. And good "PR noise" |
| 07:29.22 | MinceR | rotfl |
| 07:29.36 | MinceR | well played |
| 07:29.41 | KatolaZ | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html |
| 07:33.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | KatolaZ: one thing that gave it away for me (after I bothered to really investigate) was the rewrite, no hacker would go to such length to establish a defacing |
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| 07:40.14 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@200.68.140.14) |
| 07:43.33 | detha | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:56.28 | watchcat | hey but can we really adopt the caddyshack gopher as devuan mascot now? |
| 07:57.41 | guido_g | stupidity at it's best |
| 07:58.35 | *** join/#devuan GoatAvenger (~GoatAveng@unaffiliated/goatavenger) |
| 07:59.04 | GoatAvenger | is/was the Devuan crack legitimate? |
| 07:59.11 | GoatAvenger | Or was/is it an april fools joke? |
| 08:01.10 | watchcat | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html |
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| 08:06.05 | GoatAvenger | April fooolsss... |
| 08:06.11 | GoatAvenger | :) |
| 08:07.13 | ruenoak | I do like the ascii art |
| 08:12.01 | watchcat | somebody needs to make ascii art of a gopher wearing a green hat. |
| 08:16.12 | *** join/#devuan knidos (~knidos@88.228.174.3) |
| 08:19.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | it should wear a red hat, just because... |
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| 08:26.31 | ruenoak | Does anyone if the Devuan Conference will be recorded at all? I would love to go but sadly I live at the bottom of the globe and it's a bit far. |
| 08:29.29 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo2 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 08:35.26 | KatolaZ | ruenoak: it will be streamed and recorded |
| 08:39.31 | ruenoak | Fantastic! |
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| 08:57.09 | *** join/#devuan sauvin (sauvin@about/linux/staff/sauvin) |
| 08:58.09 | sauvin | Can anybody comment on https://www.devuan.org? Has it really been pwned? |
| 08:58.38 | *** join/#devuan errandir1 (~mh@uk.solarflare.com) |
| 09:00.21 | Unit193 | sauvin: You might want to look at the date, https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html |
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| 10:05.30 | mss | is the current state of the devuan.org a joke or did the site really get pwned? |
| 10:05.39 | mss | got* |
| 10:05.49 | KatolaZ | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html |
| 10:06.55 | mss | i see. |
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| 10:25.06 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 10:25.30 | _abc_ | So, is everything back to non green hat normal? |
| 10:25.52 | *** join/#devuan mith__ (~Mithrandi@37.227.199.89) |
| 10:28.40 | KatolaZ | _abc_: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html |
| 10:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> It all works, but it limits Linux processes to a mere 512GB of virtual address space. Such limits are irksome to the kernel developers when the hardware can do more, and, besides, somebody is likely to release a web browser or office suite which runs into that limit in the near future.<< |
| 10:31.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://lwn.net/Articles/106177/ Posted Oct 14, 2004 |
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| 10:40.48 | djph | wait, what |
| 10:41.33 | djph | 512GB (Virtual) Address Space is a limit ? |
| 10:41.40 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: poisonne` en Avril... |
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| 10:44.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | stackoverflow.com makes me puke. I hope this is an april's fool |
| 10:44.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | mousepointer throwing candy for sure is |
| 10:50.46 | rafalcpp | it seriously lacks animated background |
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| 10:52.45 | _abc_ | Everyone pulled out all stops for April's fool day. Why? Halloween was meh. |
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| 11:48.03 | Ulrar | Congrats on the new site, I like it |
| 11:48.33 | Ulrar | I wonder how many people will get it |
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| 12:42.56 | premoboss | hello, i have problem with date. i am located in italy, now it is 14:39 but the clock report +2 hours, I try to select the location with tzselect, but no way. also try to use command "date" to set the clock, but no way. what am i doing wrong? |
| 12:45.39 | rrq | I always have to go to "man tzselect" to remember it, you should do: dpkg-reconfigure tzdata |
| 12:46.11 | nailyk | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190331.191104.169aaf9a.en.html is that true ? |
| 12:46.53 | buZz | nailyk: read -all- the emails |
| 12:47.36 | buZz | specifically ; https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.070222.844cb081.en.html |
| 12:47.44 | nailyk | so it was a time stamp problem :p |
| 12:47.52 | premoboss | rrq, i done, but: |
| 12:47.59 | buZz | nailyk: just read the link |
| 12:48.02 | premoboss | Current default time zone: 'Europe/Rome' |
| 12:48.09 | premoboss | Local time is now: Mon Apr 1 16:44:55 CEST 2019. |
| 12:48.15 | premoboss | Universal Time is now: Mon Apr 1 14:44:55 UTC 2019. |
| 12:48.28 | premoboss | so, the time is still +2 hours. |
| 12:48.34 | nailyk | thks buZz ;) |
| 12:48.43 | rrq | premoboss: yes, CEST is +2 right now .. according to my tzdata as well |
| 12:48.57 | buZz | premoboss: apt install ntpdate; ntpdate ntp.xs4all.nl |
| 12:48.58 | buZz | or something |
| 12:49.01 | premoboss | ok, but now, in itali, is 14:46 |
| 12:49.11 | premoboss | not 16:46 |
| 12:49.40 | premoboss | so, or italy dont follow CEST time rule ot tzdata os wrong about italy. |
| 12:49.58 | premoboss | buzz i do. |
| 12:50.08 | buZz | premoboss: you have your system on UTC, and in the wrong time |
| 12:50.23 | buZz | you configured the UTC of your system to the correct time in italy |
| 12:50.29 | premoboss | buZz, how to set my tine the right one? |
| 12:50.45 | buZz | ntpdate with correct TZ selected should already fix it |
| 12:50.51 | premoboss | ok |
| 12:51.19 | premoboss | BANG! gone ok. thanks. |
| 12:51.24 | buZz | :) |
| 12:52.11 | premoboss | on otyer side, to be 1 hour ahead gave me always on time at meetings:))) |
| 12:55.14 | buZz | :P |
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| 13:15.45 | Y_Plentyn | hm. is it still possible to register for the devuan conference? and how? |
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| 13:16.08 | Jookia | Who did the april fool's joke? |
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| 13:18.28 | buZz | Jookia: someone with bad taste |
| 13:19.56 | Jookia | https://devuan.org/os/team/ says a 4/5 consensus is required for major decisions |
| 13:20.31 | Evilham | not the case I'm afraid |
| 13:21.09 | Jookia | so katolaz did this on their own? |
| 13:21.36 | tuxd3v | I am a bit sad, it went so far.. |
| 13:22.40 | tuxd3v | At least they could have done something like |
| 13:22.54 | tuxd3v | StackOverFlow did |
| 13:22.55 | tuxd3v | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/3817750/how-to-convert-date-to-unix-timestamp-in-shell-script-on-macos |
| 13:23.13 | Evilham | Jookia: I didn't say that |
| 13:23.42 | Jookia | Evilham: no, i'm just assuming based on the circumstances |
| 13:23.59 | Jookia | will we ever know who did it |
| 13:24.14 | buZz | well, KatolaZ was first to deny it was a april fools |
| 13:24.21 | buZz | and the only one i've seen defending it |
| 13:25.41 | Jookia | but then they also said it was an april fools joke |
| 13:25.50 | Jookia | in the email |
| 13:26.15 | KatolaZ | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.132526.1a220dc3.en.html |
| 13:27.24 | buZz | KatolaZ: was there really 4/5 concensus for this joke? |
| 13:27.33 | buZz | consensus* |
| 13:28.27 | buZz | already numerous ppl that moved away from devuan over it :) |
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| 13:28.37 | desperek | hmm |
| 13:28.38 | desperek | hi |
| 13:29.01 | gnarface | i think anyone who didn't realize it was a joke as soon as there was no javascript in that html and wasn't willing to wait until after april fool's to jump ship probably is dangerously irrational anyway |
| 13:29.06 | KatolaZ | wow, so faithful devuan users we have... |
| 13:29.23 | gnarface | i mean gopher, really? |
| 13:29.23 | KatolaZ | anyway, it's all explained in the email |
| 13:29.26 | KatolaZ | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.132526.1a220dc3.en.html |
| 13:29.32 | KatolaZ | bbl |
| 13:29.39 | buZz | gnarface: well, ppl that administrate many servers dont usually kid around with such security issues |
| 13:29.59 | Jookia | gnarface: the devuan infrastructure admins were saying they were hacked and denying it was an april fools joke |
| 13:30.18 | gnarface | well, i'm not one of them, but i did say that might not be taken well |
| 13:30.20 | buZz | admin* , i havent seen anyone 'back' the joke at all, beside KatolaZ |
| 13:30.27 | Jookia | i don't think it's fair to say they're dangerously irrational for believing it |
| 13:30.36 | gnarface | i was silent about it when i should not have been |
| 13:30.50 | buZz | even 1 hour of actually hacked could mean millions of backdoored systems |
| 13:31.28 | Jookia | katolaz apologized and that's about all that can be done |
| 13:31.52 | Jookia | but its just kinda weird to me that one person can make such huge modifications to a trusted server like that |
| 13:31.52 | gnarface | real villains would definitely have put tracking scripts on that page |
| 13:32.14 | desperek | KatolaZ, aaaaaa! |
| 13:32.35 | buZz | its just beyond bad taste, imho |
| 13:32.45 | Jookia | like if someone stole katolaz's ssh keys could they actually hack the site |
| 13:32.56 | desperek | you also need a password for ssh Jookia |
| 13:33.02 | Jookia | ssh session then |
| 13:33.22 | desperek | i dont think you can stole ssh session |
| 13:33.33 | Jookia | it's a little bit scary to think that there's not a barrier with oversight for the entire website |
| 13:33.45 | desperek | ? |
| 13:33.45 | Jookia | not just the contents but also the infrastructure itself |
| 13:34.45 | Jookia | usually with tech projects you see websites in github with merge requests handling changes |
| 13:34.46 | buZz | well, infrastructure wasnt affected, all pkg mirrors etc were still up |
| 13:35.17 | Jookia | i guess it is here: https://git.devuan.org/devuan-editors/devuan-www |
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| 13:35.33 | Jookia | but they changed the website without going through that review? idk |
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| 13:39.40 | Jookia | also does devuan use debian's repos with its own packages on top? or its own entire mirrors |
| 13:40.34 | Evilham | former |
| 13:41.23 | debdog | Y_Plentyn: do not know myslef but all you need to know should be in this thread: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/thread/20181126.195746.a575f370.en.html |
| 13:41.58 | KatolaZ | debdog: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20190401.132526.1a220dc3.en.html |
| 13:42.53 | debdog | KatolaZ: sorry, I do not understand? |
| 13:43.38 | gnarface | Jookia: mostly redirects from debian mirrors (because most packages so far are not changed) |
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| 13:44.39 | Jookia | Is there a list of changed packages? |
| 13:45.25 | gnarface | uh.. yea somewhere... |
| 13:45.37 | debdog | Jookia: https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 13:45.53 | gnarface | no that's the banned packages |
| 13:46.23 | debdog | oh, assumed they were basically the same |
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| 13:46.39 | gnarface | no those are ones that need to be forked still to just work |
| 13:46.48 | gnarface | so they're currently excluded |
| 13:47.40 | gnarface | there is somewhere in the gitlab you should be able to get the list, but also if you just search for "devuan" in pkginfo.devuan.org, all the forked packages have devuan* in the version string |
| 13:50.27 | gnarface | KatolaZ: well, you made the front page on Slashdot, so mission accomplished, i guess |
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| 13:54.47 | buZz | could have done that with actual news |
| 13:54.59 | buZz | like 'devuan moving to gopher servers' |
| 13:55.10 | buZz | instead of causing panic for the yolo |
| 13:55.35 | gnarface | i think this is KatolaZ's way of protesting being left in charge of the web servers during the conference |
| 13:56.05 | buZz | to ignore the 4/5 consensus needed for webpage changes? |
| 13:56.45 | MinceR | lol |
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| 13:58.28 | _abc_ | Do you see polkitd taking load up to 0.6-0.7 for no reason? |
| 13:58.53 | gnarface | isn't using it |
| 13:58.57 | buZz | that package isnt in devuan |
| 13:59.24 | _abc_ | Ahh. systemd fun, without systemd this time. |
| 13:59.39 | _abc_ | The package is in wheezy. I am trying to port linuxcnc user land to devuan ascii. |
| 13:59.44 | buZz | you dont need policykit |
| 13:59.53 | _abc_ | No success so far, missing packages which do not exist in devuan repos? |
| 14:00.03 | _abc_ | Will be back about this. |
| 14:00.09 | buZz | ciao |
| 14:00.12 | _abc_ | [not polkitd] |
| 14:00.14 | gnarface | stuff has been renamed since wheezy |
| 14:00.18 | _abc_ | I know. |
| 14:02.24 | _abc_ | Made a stick with refracta2usb testing it now with persistence, using live linuxcnc wheezy 2.7 iso as source |
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| 14:20.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.cons.org/cracauer/sigint.html TIL, quite interesting |
| 14:21.59 | Y_Plentyn | debdog: thank you |
| 14:23.12 | buZz | i wonder when Klipper will get 'random ass CNC' support |
| 14:23.21 | buZz | it makes a lot more sense to me than LinuxCNC |
| 14:23.49 | Y_Plentyn | ... but that not contain recent information - for example if and how it is possible after early registration |
| 14:23.59 | Y_Plentyn | ... to register |
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| 14:32.34 | debdog | Y_Plentyn: maybe there: https://events.eventzilla.net/e/welcome-to-the-first-devuan-conference-d1conf-2019-2138704309 or contact conference@devuan.org |
| 14:32.58 | Y_Plentyn | debdog: i know the first... |
| 14:35.25 | Y_Plentyn | and justr mailed the second ;) |
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| 14:37.38 | zeph1ro | @KatolaZ, zuzurellone... got the time to tag and release d1h? i need the fix u made 7mo ago... ;) |
| 14:40.04 | unixman | KatolaZ, I thought the joke was funny. I presumed it was a joke from the start. I love the fact that gopher actually works. :D |
| 14:40.29 | desperek | yea leave it like thatr |
| 14:40.33 | Y_Plentyn | I liked the joke, too, and I like gopher ;) |
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| 14:41.20 | unixman | had to install a gopher client to check and was pleasantly surprised :) |
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| 14:49.11 | unixman | Just finished reading scrollback. Some folk need to get a sense of humor. Good grief. :P |
| 14:49.30 | MinceR | indeed |
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| 15:02.23 | detha | Other folks haven't spent 3 months getting use of devuan approved by corporate security in a windows-centric company. Know what the knee-jerk reaction of ITSec types to this sort of stunt is? :P |
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| 15:11.12 | silverwillow | meh. IPSec peeps have no sense of humour. They don't count :P |
| 15:11.43 | buZz | detha: yeah i've seen many ppl not respond nicely |
| 15:11.58 | buZz | way more then expected by the 'prankster' i bet |
| 15:12.46 | detha | silverwillow: count or not, they control their firewalls. And if they say 'no', you either comply or can the project. |
| 15:20.37 | _abc_ | <almost systemd bashing>while looking for solutions for my current project, I found two nice links http://www.softpanorama.org/Commercial_linuxes/RHEL/index.shtml https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/2hfvm0/so_after_4_hours_of_debugging_systemd_and/ |
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| 15:21.55 | _abc_ | detha: itsec suits get alarmed by an amber light on a junos box (local management ethernet down usually), jokes like the website put them into hyperventilation state, need ER. |
| 15:24.02 | premoboss | KatolaZ, i read you did a minimal devuan CLI version. how to get it? |
| 15:24.54 | KatolaZ | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/minimal-live/ <- premoboss |
| 15:25.17 | premoboss | KatolaZ, thanks. |
| 15:25.57 | KatolaZ | premoboss: yw |
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| 15:40.49 | furrywolf | I too was impressed that at least www. had working gopher. checked last night. :) |
| 15:41.22 | m68000 | the port 70 revolution |
| 15:41.27 | m68000 | :P |
| 15:47.05 | _abc_ | 368MB for a cli only minimal edition is huuge :) But it's not your fault. Thanks for that KatolaZ. |
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| 15:52.01 | KatolaZ | _abc_: it's not "just a minimal image" |
| 15:52.03 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 15:52.08 | KatolaZ | it has a lot of stuff in there |
| 15:52.29 | KatolaZ | but still boots in a quite small footprint |
| 15:52.37 | KatolaZ | and gives you a fully functional system :) |
| 15:53.00 | KatolaZ | I agree it's not as minimal as "tomsrtbt" though ;) |
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| 15:57.57 | gnarface | it's as small as you can reasonably expect a debian-compatible derivative to get though |
| 15:58.21 | KatolaZ | well, it could be really made slimmer, by removing some stuff |
| 15:58.37 | KatolaZ | anyway, it should be pretty straightfoward to customise it using live-sdk |
| 15:59.07 | KatolaZ | _abc_: shout if you need help with that |
| 15:59.11 | xrogaan | Apparently IBM is to start a non-free version of RHEL. They had enough of not being able to properly use xkbcomp with wayland. |
| 15:59.52 | buZz | lol |
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| 16:05.40 | unixman | IIRC there is already a "non-free" version of RHEL. Try getting patches for an unregistered, or unpaid, or expired, RHEL subscription. |
| 16:05.59 | furrywolf | I want un-RH linux. |
| 16:07.21 | buZz | we all do |
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| 16:26.43 | xrogaan | https://www.commitstrip.com/en/2019/04/01/back-to-how-it-should-be/ |
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| 16:31.39 | buZz | xrogaan: weird |
| 16:31.51 | buZz | there was no support for 'desktop notifications' from webpages in the 90s |
| 16:32.03 | buZz | is the joke that the cartoonist wasnt on internet in the 90s? :P |
| 16:32.14 | buZz | oh, -remove- , nmind |
| 16:33.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | xrogaan: depressingly true |
| 16:33.42 | buZz | missed <marquee> though |
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| 18:40.43 | xrogaan | anyhow, after today, I realize that the best way for a cracker to fuck around is to take over during the 1st of April. |
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| 19:03.17 | _abc_ | re: RH slime: I posted a link above some time ago about this. [relevant] |
| 19:03.51 | _abc_ | http://www.softpanorama.org/Commercial_linuxes/RHEL/index.shtml repost |
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| 19:11.08 | xrogaan | _abc_: I have no idea about how to read that website |
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| 19:16.17 | _abc_ | scroll down until your eyes no longer hurt. |
| 19:16.30 | _abc_ | At "Abstract" |
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| 19:37.51 | armin | https://www.devuan.org/pwned.html ;) |
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| 21:21.00 | _abc_ | With persistence on live images: is persistence-label= only supported in later (than wheezy level) distributions? It seems to not be treated in /bin/live-persistence at all. |
| 21:21.13 | _abc_ | I wasted half a day trying to make it work |
| 21:22.27 | _abc_ | Normally if "persistence" is on the kernel cli then something in the init scripts should call /bin/live-persistence, no? |
| 21:24.38 | _abc_ | ?? |
| 22:07.03 | fsmithred | _abc_, persistence on the boot command alone looks for a volume with lable 'persistence' |
| 22:07.36 | fsmithred | for other label, you need 'persistence persistence-label=some-name' |
| 22:07.42 | fsmithred | bbiab |
| 22:13.39 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I tried both, this is for wheezy livecnc 2.7 iso which I wedged into a r2u made usb stick |
| 22:14.13 | _abc_ | fsmithred: the persistence things are completely ignored when booting into that using the system's defaults. I need to figure out how to make it not do that. |
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| 22:18.14 | _abc_ | What exactly handles the persistence volume search call? Calling /bin/live-persistence from boot? Is that in initrd? |
| 22:20.49 | _abc_ | "Forgetting something might take more effort than trying to remember it, suggests a recent study from The University of Texas at Austin in the U.S. |
| 22:20.57 | _abc_ | " - oh I must be put together backwards, then. |
| 22:28.10 | *** join/#devuan ServiceRobot (~alec@2601:45:4003:8fcb::ef49) |
| 22:28.27 | ServiceRobot | good evening folks |
| 22:28.29 | buZz | i like that the only person responsible for the bad joke, even -called- it a bad joke when he made it initially |
| 22:28.46 | buZz | yet didnt think of fixing it until much later :P |
| 22:28.50 | ServiceRobot | I was just going to say I got a fistful of dng emails today... |
| 22:28.56 | buZz | yeah lol |
| 22:29.08 | ServiceRobot | quickly realized what had happend when visiting /r/linux |
| 22:29.13 | buZz | ServiceRobot: someone forgot to learn something when his parents read him 'boy who cried wolf' as a kid |
| 22:29.25 | ServiceRobot | I don't know wether to call this a mess, or an overreaction |
| 22:29.45 | buZz | the introduction of gopher servers is cool |
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| 22:29.57 | ServiceRobot | it doesn't change anything for me personally. I will still use devuan on my personal home server |
| 22:30.03 | buZz | the 'oh noes we got hacked, all your installs might be at risk globally' was horrible |
| 22:30.06 | ServiceRobot | it's been working great for me so far |
| 22:30.19 | ServiceRobot | but it was just the website, not the repos? |
| 22:30.28 | buZz | ServiceRobot: there wasnt any hack |
| 22:30.34 | ServiceRobot | I know |
| 22:30.38 | buZz | it was just 1 admin that was trying to be funny |
| 22:30.55 | ServiceRobot | but some people reinstalled their entire systems because they thought it was real |
| 22:31.04 | buZz | of course they did, thats normal recourse |
| 22:31.14 | buZz | now what if you administrate 100s of devuan servers |
| 22:31.19 | ServiceRobot | I'm no sysadmin so I don't really have an opinion |
| 22:31.30 | buZz | then it might not be so 'funny' to hear 'devuan is hacked' on 31th of march |
| 22:31.42 | ServiceRobot | do you think this will harm devuan in the long run? I still want to support this project |
| 22:31.51 | buZz | i think it already did |
| 22:32.04 | buZz | but many will stay regardless, of course |
| 22:32.18 | ServiceRobot | what, do you think we should abandon it because of the joke? |
| 22:32.22 | buZz | if we were '100' serious before, in eyes of onlookers |
| 22:32.29 | buZz | we will now maybe be '75' serious |
| 22:32.33 | buZz | if you can even quantify it |
| 22:32.57 | buZz | which might be way easier on the minds of said admin(s) , but not really in benefit of the project |
| 22:33.04 | ServiceRobot | I don't know. seems people overreacted |
| 22:33.11 | buZz | otoh, it really got the devuan name mentioned all over the place |
| 22:33.33 | watchcat | imo it'll improve devuan by getting rid of a few humorless people |
| 22:33.35 | buZz | ServiceRobot: it could have been just as funny to just go 'all our webpages are now gopher only, go to xxxx' |
| 22:33.56 | buZz | and then after april 1st go 'haha fooled you, here's the website back, but now we also have gopher' |
| 22:34.04 | buZz | with zero harm to onlook in seriousness |
| 22:34.14 | ServiceRobot | well the admin responsible for it realized his lack of judgement. can't we just move on? |
| 22:34.21 | buZz | watchcat: tbh, you cant, unless you want to avoid any big users |
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| 22:34.44 | buZz | ServiceRobot: its not so much about the prank itself, its about a onlook |
| 22:34.57 | buZz | how will ppl respond when devuan now -actually- get hacked? |
| 22:35.05 | buZz | 'haha just dumbass admin making jokes again' |
| 22:35.20 | buZz | as i said : 00:29:12 < buZz> ServiceRobot: someone forgot to learn something when his parents read him 'boy who cried wolf' as a kid |
| 22:35.31 | watchcat | buZz: ? |
| 22:35.54 | buZz | you guys are bad at aesop's fables :P |
| 22:35.58 | buZz | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Boy_Who_Cried_Wolf |
| 22:35.58 | ServiceRobot | I dunno. it seems like an overreaction to me |
| 22:36.10 | buZz | > The Boy Who Cried Wolf is one of Aesop's Fables, numbered 210 in the Perry Index.[1] From it is derived the English idiom "to cry wolf", defined as "to give a false alarm" in Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable[2] and glossed by the Oxford English Dictionary as meaning to make false claims, with the result that subsequent true claims are disbelieved.[3] |
| 22:36.22 | ServiceRobot | buzz, we're not retarded. we know what that story is |
| 22:36.47 | buZz | so you can see its applicability then? |
| 22:36.53 | buZz | and -why- i referenced it? |
| 22:37.04 | ServiceRobot | I see it as an overreaction. yes, the joke could have been handled better |
| 22:37.10 | ServiceRobot | there was an apology. move on |
| 22:37.16 | watchcat | meh. only a few er less intelligent people thought there was any danger. |
| 22:37.17 | buZz | it didnt go live on april 1st either |
| 22:37.41 | ServiceRobot | that's because a lot of devuan admins aren't from the U.S. so it was april first where they were |
| 22:37.53 | buZz | it wasnt, they live in my timezone |
| 22:38.15 | ServiceRobot | not the ones I've spoken to |
| 22:38.16 | buZz | i even confirmed it was hosted on freaknet's infra in italy |
| 22:38.30 | buZz | 'my' timezone isnt US's |
| 22:38.40 | buZz | i, like most people globally, dont live in the US |
| 22:40.21 | ServiceRobot | but what are you trying to get at buzz? the admin responsible for the joke apoligized already. |
| 22:40.42 | buZz | right, the point was your question if it did damage |
| 22:40.55 | buZz | i was saying it probably already did |
| 22:41.03 | buZz | and was explaining why i said that |
| 22:41.05 | ServiceRobot | but how much damage, if any? |
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| 22:41.13 | buZz | i even quantified it for you |
| 22:41.24 | buZz | 00:32:21 < buZz> if we were '100' serious before, in eyes of onlookers 00:32:29 < buZz> we will now maybe be '75' serious |
| 22:41.27 | ServiceRobot | I don't want quanfitications. I want examples |
| 22:41.39 | buZz | you literally just asked to quantify it :P |
| 22:42.36 | buZz | say if a company was just considering to move their vps platforms from debian to devuan |
| 22:42.48 | buZz | and now on monday meetings it was first 'eh, devuan repos are hacked' |
| 22:42.59 | buZz | and then 8 hrs later a email 'oh eh it was a joke' |
| 22:43.11 | buZz | do you think a serious company would then still consider devuan an option? |
| 22:43.18 | watchcat | nobody said devuan repos were hacked. |
| 22:43.26 | watchcat | only |
| 22:44.23 | buZz | 'just' files.devuan.org , git.devuan.org, pkginfo.devuan.org :P |
| 22:45.01 | ServiceRobot | but people were worried they were hacked because the main website was. there was no indication the repos were left untouched. again, an apology was sent, and I'm perfectly fine with it |
| 22:45.17 | buZz | mirrors already have been pulled offline because of this :P |
| 22:45.25 | buZz | and i dont blame them |
| 22:46.09 | watchcat | anyone who asked if the repos were affected were told clearly, "no". |
| 22:46.29 | buZz | right, the same ppl who repeated over and over that it wasnt a joke |
| 22:47.39 | watchcat | well at least complain about real stuff instead of exaggerations. |
| 22:48.01 | buZz | alright, i'm sad there's less mirrors of devuan now |
| 22:48.14 | buZz | i'm also sad its less of a serious distro in the eyes on many now |
| 22:48.26 | buZz | yet i wont stop running it |
| 22:48.55 | buZz | eyes of many* |
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| 23:15.06 | ErRandir | April 1st is now over ;) |
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