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| 00:25.00 | ezcape | Sorry didnt seen KotalaZ's reply |
| 00:25.35 | ezcape | cannot see he quit |
| 00:27.46 | DonkeyHotei | he didn't |
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| 00:32.36 | ezcape | DonkeyHotei: really? Has he gone into hiding? Cannot see him in the userlist. |
| 00:33.28 | gnarface | still showing up for me. might be a problem with your client or the server you're on |
| 00:33.43 | ezcape | gnarface: I see :) |
| 00:34.02 | ezcape | thanks btw :) |
| 00:34.06 | gnarface | the question you initially asked has a serious answer, but it's also a common troll so you have to try harder to sound serious if you want to be taken seriously about it |
| 00:34.54 | gnarface | if you were just trolling about it, do that in #debianfork |
| 00:35.19 | ezcape | gnarface: thank you, but I scrolled up, and cannot see that it's about |
| 00:35.44 | ezcape | see what's |
| 00:36.57 | ezcape | https://old.reddit.com/r/antinatalism/ |
| 00:38.07 | gnarface | alright you've lost me. i don't follow your train of thought at all. |
| 00:40.04 | ezcape | Goldberg Varaiations. :( |
| 00:40.20 | ezcape | no no, again, I mean a huge :) |
| 00:41.10 | ezcape | thats a reason to live |
| 00:41.12 | gnarface | i almost thought i understood what you were grasping at, but you lost me again |
| 00:41.42 | ezcape | Bach? |
| 00:42.20 | gnarface | i know Bach, and wikipedia tells me the relationship between Bach and "Goldberg Variations" but i don't see the link from that to antinatalism nor to either and debian stable |
| 00:43.20 | ezcape | hehe that is complicated. ;) |
| 00:43.39 | gnarface | unless you mean that people advocating against rolling releases are morally aligned with antinatalists, which still doesn't tell me what Bach has to do with it, and fundamentally misrepresents the maintenance regime debian stable generally gets |
| 00:44.41 | ezcape | sorry, your IQ is higher than mine. |
| 00:45.28 | gnarface | still not high enough to follow what you mean unfortunately |
| 00:45.34 | ezcape | oposites attrack :( |
| 00:45.34 | golinux | ezcape: http://vhemt.org Glenn Gould reigns. Please continue OT on #debianfork. |
| 00:45.36 | ezcape | :) |
| 00:46.42 | ezcape | golinux: I so agree! |
| 00:47.17 | golinux | :D |
| 00:47.33 | ezcape | :) Yes debianfork :) |
| 00:48.55 | DonkeyHotei | i see no mention of glenn gould on that website |
| 00:48.59 | ezcape | gnarface: I guess you read books, I do not :) |
| 00:49.42 | golinux | Two different topics Gould = Bach |
| 00:50.00 | golinux | Please tke to #debianfork |
| 00:50.34 | gnarface | ezcape: well the cliff's notes version is that it's because Debian's "2 year old" stable distro gets regularly backported security and stability patches, while ABI-breaking changes are forbidden |
| 00:52.07 | golinux | gnarface: Thanks for trying to stay on-topic. :) |
| 00:53.48 | ezcape | gnarface: thats great! As long as it's backported IÃ'm fine :) |
| 00:55.14 | golinux | That's what backports is for |
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| 01:03.42 | systemdlete2 | May I weigh in on this? I am one who prefers fixed releases, and I am particularly interested in LTS releases. However, I am not some kind of nihilist(?) about rolling releases. Those are fine for a few of my VMs (although I still admit I'd prefer to run everything, everywhere on fixed releases). |
| 01:04.45 | systemdlete2 | but prob this still belongs in debianfork... |
| 01:20.47 | specing | attention everyone, my devuan btrfs install into VM became busted for some reason |
| 01:21.11 | specing | several thousand of btrfs checksum mismatches |
| 01:21.16 | specing | :/ rip |
| 01:22.31 | watchcat | this is why i just stict to ext4. bios/mbr/sysv/ext4 forever. |
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| 01:23.51 | DonkeyHotei | also, chs and not lba, right? |
| 01:25.16 | watchcat | i think i still have some isa cards somewhere, too. |
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| 03:47.04 | Centurion_Dan | specing: I had that on a host the other day. A reboot solved it but I think next chance I get I'll ditch btrfs... |
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| 10:39.39 | specing | watchcat | this is why i just stict to ext4. bios/mbr/sysv/ext4 forever. |
| 10:39.51 | specing | never had any issue on Gentoo and I've been using btrfs for 5 years everywhere |
| 10:40.09 | MinceR | i tried btrfs on a usb flash device, but it killed itself |
| 10:40.15 | MinceR | so i switched to ext4 |
| 10:40.36 | specing | Centurion_Dan: you rather have silent corruption by ext4? |
| 10:41.30 | Centurion_Dan | specing: I've been ext4 for years and not yet experienced silent corruption. |
| 10:42.00 | specing | Centurion_Dan: how would you know? its silent |
| 10:42.05 | MinceR | btrfs offers nice features but it's useless as long as it's so unstable |
| 10:42.26 | specing | like I said, in 5 years on Gentoo, btrfs on 10 machines and 0 problems |
| 10:42.29 | Centurion_Dan | specing: how do you know silent corruption is possible.. |
| 10:42.40 | specing | 5 days of devuan in VM and it blows up |
| 10:42.46 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 10:42.55 | specing | Centurion_Dan: because ext4 does not do data integrity assurance |
| 10:42.59 | neplevitan | doesn't zfs and btrfs have scrub commands to check for corruption? :) |
| 10:43.27 | specing | neplevitan: scrub started at Thu Feb 21 14:19:52 2019 and was aborted after 00:00:00 |
| 10:43.59 | specing | I immidiately scrubed the whole disk of this machine and it found 0 errors in 90GB of data |
| 10:44.05 | neplevitan | oh, my last scrub was on 9th of january, maybe i should start a new one |
| 10:44.13 | specing | yes |
| 10:44.24 | specing | I was thinking of putting it into the auto-snapshot cronjob |
| 10:45.32 | neplevitan | ext4 on lvm blew up in my face last time i tried it :) |
| 10:45.39 | neplevitan | that was on debian 8 i believe |
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| 10:46.49 | KatolaZ | strange I have had several servers running for 8+ years on ext4 and none of them has ever "blown up in my face" |
| 10:46.52 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 10:48.00 | gnarface | i've seen it happen |
| 10:49.40 | gnarface | there was an issue where a newer version of e2fsprogs would corrupt filesystems created by older versions |
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| 13:45.46 | uniqueName | Hello, |
| 13:46.17 | uniqueName | I have a bit of a problem with my wacom (Devuan ASCII, up to date) |
| 13:46.36 | uniqueName | The light turns on, ans lsusb detects it, |
| 13:46.52 | uniqueName | but the mouse isn't moved by the pen. |
| 13:47.07 | uniqueName | and xsetwacom --list lists nothing. |
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| 14:59.43 | xrogaan | oh |
| 15:00.21 | xrogaan | uniqueName: have you done the prerequired researches to make sure wacom works properly on linux? |
| 15:00.42 | xrogaan | For instance, did you read all theses: https://linuxwacom.github.io/ |
| 15:01.35 | xrogaan | if the mouse isn't moved by the pen, you might be lacking the X11 driver. |
| 15:02.18 | xrogaan | uniqueName: have you installed the packages listed by "apt-cache search wacom"? |
| 15:02.28 | xrogaan | not the -dev or -dgb though |
| 15:02.33 | xrogaan | dbg* |
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| 15:03.41 | xrogaan | uniqueName: what is Xorg saying about it? What's in the logs? |
| 15:04.25 | uniqueName | I have got everything from apt search installed. |
| 15:05.16 | xrogaan | what device do you have, specifically? |
| 15:06.24 | uniqueName | Wacom intuos something |
| 15:06.30 | xrogaan | So, this is part of the linux package. You have to make sure the hardware you have is working with the version of the libraries and drivers that are installed. |
| 15:06.38 | uniqueName | Can't see what sort it is on the box. |
| 15:07.11 | uniqueName | ~/.xsessionerrors says the following when the wacom is plugged in by the way : |
| 15:07.14 | xrogaan | debian is way behind, using 0.22 while current is 0.32 |
| 15:07.30 | uniqueName | "thunar-volman: Unsupported USB device type "usb". |
| 15:07.30 | uniqueName | thunar-volman: Unsupported input device type "(null)". |
| 15:07.31 | uniqueName | thunar-volman: Unsupported USB device type "usbhid". |
| 15:07.31 | uniqueName | thunar-volman: Unsupported input device type "/dev/input/event14"." |
| 15:07.31 | xrogaan | please use a pastebin if it's a huge amount of text :) |
| 15:07.43 | uniqueName | not huge, just four lines. |
| 15:09.02 | uniqueName | I used to have it working back on Debian, don't know what versions that has. |
| 15:09.18 | uniqueName | but yeah. I have 0.22 |
| 15:09.34 | xrogaan | and what does lsusb list? |
| 15:10.01 | xrogaan | > https://github.com/linuxwacom/input-wacom/wiki/Device-IDs |
| 15:10.34 | xrogaan | depending on your wacom device, you might need to update your kernel and build the wacom drivers from source. |
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| 15:12.13 | xrogaan | there are many intuos |
| 15:12.54 | xrogaan | another relevant wiki page: https://github.com/linuxwacom/input-wacom/wiki/Testing-Tablet-Detection |
| 15:14.13 | xrogaan | uniqueName: so here you go, you need to find out which tablet you have and which version of the library/driver you need :P |
| 15:15.04 | xrogaan | a newer kernel might solve your issue though. |
| 15:15.11 | xrogaan | you might want the backports |
| 15:16.04 | xrogaan | There is no real reason to not use the backport kernel btw, unless you want a system that never changes because if a breakage occurs your company gets fined. |
| 15:17.27 | xrogaan | The backport kernel is 4.19, so at the driver level you should be fine. |
| 15:17.43 | uniqueName | lsusb lists it as "Bus 002 Device 005: ID 056a:0374 Wacom Co., Ltd" |
| 15:17.58 | uniqueName | so to install a backport, what do I do? |
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| 15:18.16 | xrogaan | you have Intuos S |
| 15:18.32 | xrogaan | requires at minimum version 4.10 of the kernel. |
| 15:18.41 | uniqueName | Oh |
| 15:18.42 | uniqueName | Ah. |
| 15:19.32 | xrogaan | create a file under /etc/apt/source.list.d/backports with this inside: http://dpaste.com/1GM4P75 |
| 15:19.53 | uniqueName | I allready have those lines in my sources.list. |
| 15:21.00 | uniqueName | How do I find the kernel package name? |
| 15:21.09 | uniqueName | apt search kernel? |
| 15:22.28 | xrogaan | aptitude search linux | grep ^i |
| 15:23.09 | uniqueName | Thanks! |
| 15:23.13 | sxpert | wrong window ;) |
| 15:23.39 | uniqueName | but that just turned up with a list of things I already have installed. |
| 15:24.14 | xrogaan | aptitude -t ascii-backports -R -s install firmware-linux linux-image-amd64 linux-perf util-linux |
| 15:24.21 | xrogaan | -s if for simulate |
| 15:24.33 | xrogaan | -R is without recommends. |
| 15:24.36 | uniqueName | that is a lot of packages. |
| 15:24.48 | xrogaan | it's to make sure everything gets updated |
| 15:25.06 | xrogaan | you can start synaptic and look at each of those |
| 15:25.36 | uniqueName | why not install the recommends? |
| 15:25.55 | xrogaan | you can if you want |
| 15:26.02 | xrogaan | that'll install apparmor. |
| 15:26.21 | xrogaan | as I said, -s will simulate the action, so nothing will be done |
| 15:26.48 | uniqueName | why is apparmor bad/why don't I want it? |
| 15:26.53 | xrogaan | it's safer to check what is going to happen before it happens, right? |
| 15:27.10 | xrogaan | https://wiki.debian.org/AppArmor |
| 15:28.24 | xrogaan | It's another set of headaches. I'd focus on getting your wacom working first. |
| 15:28.49 | uniqueName | aha. |
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| 15:29.51 | uniqueName | Thank you! just finished installing, will try restarting now. Bye! |
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| 15:30.11 | xrogaan | famous last words |
| 15:30.19 | ham5urg | Is there a repo where I canget rspamd? |
| 15:30.31 | xrogaan | I don't know what that is |
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| 15:31.34 | ham5urg | [beowulf] rspamd-1.8.1-2+b2 [ceres] rspamd-1.8.1-2+b2 [jessie] rspamd-0.6.10 |
| 15:31.51 | ham5urg | but no deb-package of rspamd in ascii |
| 15:32.34 | ham5urg | is there a best practice how to install it in ascii? |
| 15:33.01 | jonadab | Is there an ascii-backports yet? |
| 15:33.02 | xrogaan | have you thought about checking the rspamd.org website? |
| 15:33.13 | xrogaan | > Rspamd is also available in some versions of Debian and Ubuntu. However, we are looking for an active maintainer for rspamd in these âofficialâ repos, as now rspamd is terribly outdated there. |
| 15:33.29 | xrogaan | there you go, no maintainer for debian. |
| 15:33.42 | xrogaan | jonadab: there is. |
| 15:33.45 | jonadab | Probably best to build from source then. |
| 15:33.55 | jonadab | If the package is badly out of date. |
| 15:34.20 | xrogaan | oh a rspamd backport. Well if there is no maintainer then probably "no". |
| 15:34.43 | jonadab | I was thinking if it was in ceres, there might be a backport. |
| 15:34.53 | jonadab | But yeah, that was before someone said the package has no Debian maintainer. |
| 15:34.57 | xrogaan | I need to correct myself, it's not rpsamd.org, but .com |
| 15:35.13 | xrogaan | Why opensource software uses a .com is beyond me though. |
| 15:35.22 | ham5urg | man, this systemd-thing is killing me |
| 15:35.34 | ham5urg | i can't stand it any longer |
| 15:35.55 | jonadab | ... why on earth do you have systemd? The whole point of Devuan is to NOT have that. |
| 15:36.05 | ham5urg | I don't have it. |
| 15:36.59 | ham5urg | But because of systemd there are only a few people left. |
| 15:37.08 | xrogaan | ham5urg: alpine linux seems alright for servers. |
| 15:37.19 | jonadab | Ah, the community being split, you mean. I see. |
| 15:37.24 | ham5urg | Yes |
| 15:37.54 | jonadab | I mean, there are probably more Devuan users today, than there were Linux users when I started using Linux. |
| 15:38.17 | jonadab | (I started with Debian 1.3.1.) |
| 15:38.32 | ham5urg | Divide et impera. Always the same. Call it Debian, call it Bitcoin, always the same mechanics applied. |
| 15:38.52 | ham5urg | A split here, another split there... |
| 15:39.45 | jonadab | The problem is really that the split happened too late. |
| 15:40.03 | xrogaan | what do you mean? |
| 15:40.13 | jonadab | We should have rebelled several years earlier, over pulseaudio. |
| 15:40.31 | jonadab | Then we would've been already established and ready to go when the systemd fiasco hit. |
| 15:40.50 | *** join/#devuan uniqueName (~mark@5-15-61-229.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 15:41.03 | uniqueName | It woorksss!!! |
| 15:41.05 | *** join/#devuan Tom-_ (tomg@64-7-147-226.agas1a-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca) |
| 15:41.15 | xrogaan | I like pulseaudio though. |
| 15:41.26 | jonadab | shudders in horror. |
| 15:41.34 | xrogaan | I don't have to spend days trying to figure out why my audio doesn't work anymore. |
| 15:41.40 | jonadab | Wat? |
| 15:41.45 | jonadab | That is exactly the opposite of true. |
| 15:41.53 | xrogaan | uniqueName: yay! |
| 15:43.15 | KatolaZ | ham5urg: have you tried installing the beowulf's version of rspamd? |
| 15:43.29 | KatolaZ | just get the .deb |
| 15:43.37 | *** join/#devuan xanio (~xanio@185.136.125.14) |
| 15:43.50 | xrogaan | rspamd have their own repositories for debian |
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| 15:44.06 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: there is no need |
| 15:44.15 | xrogaan | 'Just saying. |
| 15:44.16 | KatolaZ | just get the .deb from beowulf/buster |
| 15:44.21 | KatolaZ | and install it |
| 15:44.42 | xrogaan | how do you get security updates though? |
| 15:44.58 | KatolaZ | a quick look at the deps suggests that it might actually work on jessie as well |
| 15:45.12 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: have you haved a look at the tracker page of rspamd? |
| 15:45.18 | KatolaZ | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/luajit |
| 15:45.21 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 15:45.23 | KatolaZ | wrong one |
| 15:45.29 | ham5urg | I will try |
| 15:45.31 | KatolaZ | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/rspamd |
| 15:46.09 | KatolaZ | there have been three versions in the last two years |
| 15:46.34 | KatolaZ | there are only 4 bugs in the BTS |
| 15:46.36 | xrogaan | KatolaZ: meets rspamd's people warning |
| 15:46.52 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 15:47.11 | xrogaan | oh, you mean rspamd don't get new versions so often? |
| 15:47.33 | KatolaZ | ... |
| 15:48.23 | xrogaan | I don't understand your point, sorry. |
| 15:48.32 | KatolaZ | if a software is "terribly outdated" for a difference in the third digit of its version number, then I would probably consider using something else |
| 15:48.48 | ham5urg | Where do I have to look? http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan/dists/beowulf/ ...? |
| 15:48.54 | KatolaZ | ham5urg: for what? |
| 15:49.02 | ham5urg | rspamd....deb |
| 15:49.09 | KatolaZ | in a debian pool |
| 15:49.11 | KatolaZ | hold on |
| 15:49.39 | KatolaZ | http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/r/rspamd/ |
| 15:49.54 | ham5urg | thanks a ton |
| 15:50.03 | KatolaZ | ham5urg: it looks like 1.8.1-2+b2 is the latest available version |
| 15:50.26 | xrogaan | upstream is 1.8.3 |
| 15:50.30 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: so? |
| 15:51.14 | KatolaZ | https://www.cvedetails.com/product/39045/Rspamd-Project-Rspamd.html?vendor_id=16747 |
| 15:52.04 | xrogaan | is the changelog only about debian things? https://tracker.debian.org/media/packages/r/rspamd/changelog-1.8.1-2 |
| 15:52.17 | xrogaan | d/rules and d/control |
| 15:52.31 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: that's the Debian changelog |
| 15:52.32 | ham5urg | I've tried it with dpkg -i ... and apt-get --fix-broken ... but apt just deinstalls rspamd |
| 15:52.51 | KatolaZ | ham5urg: just look for which deps are missing |
| 15:52.56 | xrogaan | KatolaZ: yeah, that's the point. |
| 15:53.22 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: the original changelog is normally under /usr/share/doc/PACKAGE/ |
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| 15:53.39 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: then I don't see your point |
| 15:53.40 | xrogaan | no, I'm looking at the debian changelog |
| 15:53.44 | ham5urg | there are version mismatches |
| 15:54.02 | KatolaZ | ok ham5urg |
| 15:54.06 | xrogaan | because debian backport fixes sometimes. But that's not happening here because there is apparently no maintainer |
| 15:54.16 | ham5urg | libssl1.1 (>= 1.1.1); is needed |
| 15:54.21 | ham5urg | 1.1.0j-1~deb9u1 is installed |
| 15:54.26 | KatolaZ | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/rspamd |
| 15:54.30 | xrogaan | thus, is the changelog just about the debian build system? |
| 15:54.32 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: ^^^ look there |
| 15:54.38 | KatolaZ | there is a maintainer |
| 15:54.50 | KatolaZ | they made the last upload 45 days ago... |
| 15:55.03 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 15:56.44 | ham5urg | https://rspamd.com/apt-stable/pool/main/r/rspamd/ |
| 15:56.54 | ham5urg | rspamd has its own repo |
| 15:57.59 | *** part/#devuan uniqueName (~mark@5-15-61-229.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 16:08.08 | xrogaan | ues |
| 16:08.37 | xrogaan | KatolaZ: the latest version of rspamd could be sent to unstable, what are your thoughts about that? |
| 16:12.45 | KatolaZ | xrogaan: contact the maintainers |
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| 16:38.11 | *** join/#devuan _stephen_ (~stephen@79.sub-174-220-19.myvzw.com) |
| 16:40.36 | _stephen_ | One month and 117GB later my debmirror command finished. Per https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=7715#p7715 I now have a lot of data, but naively adding it to apache and doing an apt update I get some errors. Most notably: E: Failed to fetch http://camel.devuan.org/merged/dists/ascii/main/Contents-amd64 404 Not Found |
| 16:41.02 | _stephen_ | A find reveals no such file anywhere in the files I pulled. |
| 16:45.32 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.154.34.122) |
| 16:46.04 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: that's normal |
| 16:46.18 | KatolaZ | there are only the compressed versions of "Contents-arch: |
| 16:47.04 | sxpert | now you need another month to uncompress everyting, and redo the debmirror to keep up to date ;-) |
| 16:47.24 | _stephen_ | So how do I make it useable? |
| 16:47.31 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: is it unusable? |
| 16:47.43 | _stephen_ | yup |
| 16:47.48 | KatolaZ | apt will look for the uncompressed version anyway |
| 16:48.03 | KatolaZ | as it does for Packages and Sources |
| 16:48.18 | KatolaZ | if a mirror does not provide it, it will continue to look for the .gz or .xz |
| 16:48.29 | _stephen_ | Maybe my directory hierarchy is wrong, as I can no longer apt search for stuff that's in the mirror. |
| 16:48.34 | _stephen_ | or install |
| 16:48.47 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: what error do you see? |
| 16:49.18 | KatolaZ | (your "no longer" indicates you have made some changes?) |
| 16:50.19 | _stephen_ | before apt update I could apt search packages, but that was before it had updated the package cache to use the local mirror |
| 16:51.04 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: then you most probably have a problem in your local mirror |
| 16:51.10 | KatolaZ | have you used debmirror? |
| 16:51.14 | KatolaZ | or apt-mirror? |
| 16:51.26 | _stephen_ | sorry, apt update takes a while to run... looks like maybe it found some things? https://pastebin.com/3rLu4E6n |
| 16:51.39 | _stephen_ | I used debmirror per the link above. |
| 16:53.02 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: I hope you have used "--root=merged" |
| 16:53.02 | _stephen_ | https://pastebin.com/Rsut2r3z |
| 16:53.24 | _stephen_ | wait, that might not be right... remoteroot merged in the config |
| 16:53.28 | KatolaZ | the stuff in that post donwloads only the packages which have been forked by devuan |
| 16:53.38 | KatolaZ | IIRC |
| 16:53.56 | KatolaZ | you need remoteroor=merged |
| 16:53.59 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 16:54.05 | KatolaZ | remoteroot=merged |
| 16:54.07 | _stephen_ | yeah, I have $remoteroot="merged"; |
| 16:54.15 | _stephen_ | in the config: https://pastebin.com/Rsut2r3z |
| 16:55.09 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: you still need to have the correct set of rewrites |
| 16:55.18 | KatolaZ | in your httpd server |
| 16:55.41 | KatolaZ | as per devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt |
| 16:55.52 | KatolaZ | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt |
| 16:56.13 | _stephen_ | I did add some, bu tI'm not sure they are correct: https://pastebin.com/5QPz7LfN |
| 16:56.59 | KatolaZ | man you shouldn't use a *.devuan.org FQDN |
| 16:57.19 | KatolaZ | ... |
| 16:57.36 | _stephen_ | The network is offline and I was going to use the default deb.devuan.org to avoid having to reconfigure all the clients manually. |
| 16:57.52 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 16:58.12 | _stephen_ | That way some of the mobile hosts can move between the offline and real online. |
| 16:58.45 | KatolaZ | still, not a good habit to use FQDN you don't own |
| 16:59.31 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: but are you actually able to install packages from the mirror? |
| 16:59.46 | _stephen_ | I haven't been able to find any packages that are on the mirror that my local package cache actually contains yet. |
| 17:00.31 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 17:00.59 | KatolaZ | what is your "local package cache"? |
| 17:01.22 | _stephen_ | apt search output |
| 17:01.47 | _stephen_ | for example, I just noticed rsyslog does show up in an apt search .. but nothing wicd does... both have debs on the mirror. |
| 17:04.12 | _stephen_ | using bc as my test case (had to uninstall it..) I can apt search and I see bc, but I can't apt install it. |
| 17:04.23 | _stephen_ | E: Package 'bc' has no installation candidate |
| 17:06.05 | _stephen_ | Also note the nonsense I added for symlinks... I couldn't tell what should be at my root, so I created a merged symlink to . |
| 17:07.06 | _stephen_ | Because I saw the http reference in apt sources, but my server root looks like this: dists pool project |
| 17:07.52 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: there is something odd |
| 17:08.06 | KatolaZ | most probably in the way you redirect stuff on the web server |
| 17:08.15 | KatolaZ | oh |
| 17:08.40 | KatolaZ | but you are redirecting to /devuan/pool |
| 17:08.48 | KatolaZ | and to /debian/pool |
| 17:09.00 | KatolaZ | you must have those folders in your document root |
| 17:09.47 | _stephen_ | Oh, yeah, that's not right... |
| 17:10.49 | KatolaZ | yup |
| 17:11.34 | _stephen_ | I've never written rewrite rules before. I blindly copied them from the txt file... |
| 17:11.47 | _stephen_ | The left is the thing to match, those right sides don't exist. |
| 17:12.17 | _stephen_ | THe left side actually does, though... should I just rip those out? |
| 17:12.50 | _stephen_ | I dont see why I would want rewrite rules to rewrite from paths that do exist to ones that dont... |
| 17:13.28 | _stephen_ | Also, I didn't mirror anything from security, so that one doesn't exist, but the other two do. |
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| 17:14.07 | specing | _stephen_: why are you doing such a mirror? |
| 17:14.18 | _stephen_ | To provide packages to an offline network. |
| 17:14.19 | specing | Why not a lightweight caching proxy instead? |
| 17:14.28 | _stephen_ | because of the offline part |
| 17:14.31 | specing | So the server is offline too? |
| 17:14.35 | _stephen_ | Yeah |
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| 17:15.35 | specing | strange setup |
| 17:16.24 | _stephen_ | No arguments there. |
| 17:17.10 | specing | what is this, some military thing where all stuff has to be disconnected from the internet? |
| 17:18.02 | _stephen_ | nope, just stupid work rules |
| 17:18.22 | specing | they are probably stupid for a reason |
| 17:18.27 | _stephen_ | I sure hope so. |
| 17:18.55 | specing | because I'd think not having internet access would make employee performance worse |
| 17:22.06 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: you need to go through the devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt |
| 17:22.19 | KatolaZ | and understand how a devuan mirror works first |
| 17:22.38 | KatolaZ | devuan mirrors make heavy use of rewrites |
| 17:22.54 | KatolaZ | you need to get it before configuring your web server |
| 17:23.17 | KatolaZ | devuan_mirror_walkthrough.txt contains these explanations |
| 17:23.32 | KatolaZ | please go through the doc, and feel free to shout if there is anything you need help with |
| 17:23.38 | _stephen_ | That covers rsync, I had started from the forum saying debmirror... |
| 17:24.06 | _stephen_ | Is there some way I can follow the walkthrough and not have to redownload? |
| 17:25.01 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: please read the walkthrough |
| 17:25.07 | KatolaZ | you don't have to re-download |
| 17:25.12 | _stephen_ | I have/am/and will continue to do so. |
| 17:25.15 | KatolaZ | just to understand how a devuan mirror works |
| 17:25.59 | _stephen_ | Thanks for the pointers. |
| 17:26.13 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: especially Section 4 and Section 5 |
| 17:26.30 | KatolaZ | you can skip most of the rest |
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| 18:16.47 | ugh | Anyone here willing and patient enough to help a newbie at the moment? |
| 18:20.18 | debdog | ugh: usually one gets best results by just stating the issue having |
| 18:20.41 | ugh | every attempt to install nvidia drivers so far hasnt worked |
| 18:21.05 | ugh | and from the only source ive found, im not advised to read the "official" instructions to install any drivers because its outdated |
| 18:21.23 | ugh | and apparently "not to install/run anything specifically for debian" |
| 18:21.27 | ugh | so i have no clue what to do |
| 18:21.47 | debdog | sorry, don't have that sort of hardware. just stick around |
| 18:27.52 | specing | ugh: use built-in drivers - nouveau |
| 18:28.36 | ugh | it installed nouveau for my amd apu already, and its outdated |
| 18:28.45 | ugh | i at least want good drivers for my main gpu |
| 18:29.00 | specing | nouveau is for nvidia gpus, not amd gpus |
| 18:29.27 | specing | What do you mean by outdated? |
| 18:29.35 | specing | Is it not stable? |
| 18:29.40 | ugh | sorry i meant "mesa". only steam allows me to see exactly what i have installed, the apps that came with my distro dont work |
| 18:29.47 | ugh | and the screenfetch thing isnt reporting the right os |
| 18:29.57 | ugh | but its outdated as in the openGL is old and the version itself is way behind |
| 18:30.23 | ugh | i think im just gonna get manjaro though, trying to find support for devuan ate my whole morning as it is. thanks anyway |
| 18:31.14 | *** part/#devuan ugh (2fd8f0d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.47.216.240.208) |
| 18:31.27 | debdog | phew, ditched a bullet there |
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| 18:33.00 | shift- | i wonder how good nvidia support is under manjaro |
| 18:33.27 | shift- | one would think they mostly focus on stuff like ubuntu lts or centos primarily |
| 18:35.20 | debdog | back when I've had an nvidia card I just installed the binary from their site. but that came with its own culprits |
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| 18:47.09 | ham5urg | buy a vega card and be happy |
| 18:47.30 | ham5urg | Nvidia is like systemd. A pain in the ass. |
| 18:48.11 | sixwheeledbeast | ^ |
| 18:48.38 | sixwheeledbeast | Some are on sale due to VII |
| 18:49.27 | jonadab | Am I the only one who still pines for Matrox graphics cards? |
| 18:49.40 | ham5urg | No |
| 18:49.59 | ham5urg | My HP pizza-box does have one |
| 18:50.09 | ham5urg | a g200 |
| 18:50.22 | jonadab | I had a Matrox Mystique back in the day that was great. |
| 18:50.29 | jonadab | Later upgraded to a Matrox Millennium. |
| 18:51.35 | jonadab | has this weird tendency to lump anything involving 3D acceleration under the general heading of "unstable gamer c$@!". |
| 18:52.01 | debdog | what's vega? |
| 18:52.32 | jonadab | Vega is one of the brightest stars in the summer sky, IIRC. |
| 18:54.13 | debdog | oh, AMD vega. I thought it was a manufacturer |
| 18:54.37 | KatolaZ | vega is Alpha Lyrae |
| 18:54.40 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 18:54.47 | KatolaZ | it will be the next polaris |
| 18:55.02 | debdog | hehe |
| 18:55.04 | KatolaZ | oh sorry |
| 18:55.08 | KatolaZ | it used to be the polaris |
| 18:55.14 | KatolaZ | about 15000 years ago |
| 18:55.30 | fsmithred | I remember that. We all got lost when it changed. |
| 18:55.36 | specing | ham5urg | buy a vega card and be happy |
| 18:55.39 | KatolaZ | oh I was actually right |
| 18:55.45 | specing | buy a 10 year old thinkpad with intel igpu and be happy |
| 18:55.57 | KatolaZ | due to precession, it will be the polaris again in about 12000 years |
| 18:56.27 | jonadab | Everything old is new again. |
| 18:56.59 | jonadab | Even hoop skirts and disco will come back eventually. |
| 18:57.11 | ham5urg | Vega64 is brand new, specing |
| 18:57.19 | jonadab | (Probably not at the same time.) |
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| 18:58.19 | *** join/#devuan veryimportantper (~user@h41-201.pool95-168.dyn.tolna.net) |
| 18:58.22 | veryimportantper | hi guys |
| 18:58.25 | veryimportantper | very important person here |
| 18:58.40 | specing | ham5urg: Is it possible yet to run radeon without proprietary firmware? |
| 18:58.49 | *** part/#devuan veryimportantper (~user@h41-201.pool95-168.dyn.tolna.net) |
| 18:59.35 | ham5urg | amdgpu is the kernel driver for new vega cards |
| 18:59.53 | ham5urg | not all cards are equal supported |
| 18:59.58 | MinceR | very important person no longer here |
| 19:00.22 | shibboleth | amdgpu supports sea/southern islands an later |
| 19:00.22 | shift- | must have changed his mind |
| 19:00.24 | shift- | what a shame |
| 19:01.48 | ham5urg | specing : https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/AMDGPU#Feature_support |
| 19:07.42 | rwp | I think the issue of binary blobs is different from proprietary drivers. And I don't believe the firmware is any different from the card itself. |
| 19:07.50 | rwp | If you are willing to use the hardware without being able to rewire it then why is using the firmware without being able to reprogram it any different? |
| 19:07.55 | rwp | However the firmware is OS independent, a part of the hardware. That is completely different from a device requiring proprietary drivers. |
| 19:10.01 | specing | ham5urg: yes, but does it require proprietary firmware? |
| 19:10.31 | specing | rwp: because you cannot rewire an ASIC |
| 19:10.40 | specing | but you can change the firmware |
| 19:11.48 | rwp | How is one different from the other? |
| 19:12.32 | *** join/#devuan petzi (~petzi@p548B20B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:12.37 | specing | rwp: Have you read what I just said? |
| 19:12.39 | rwp | How would you feel if the firmware were burned into a ROM and soldered onto the card? |
| 19:12.58 | rwp | I read what you wrote. I did not understand it however. |
| 19:13.02 | specing | you CAN modify the firmware, but you CANNOT modify the ASIC |
| 19:13.10 | ham5urg | specing, I'm unsure but I guess rwp is right. The firmware for AMDGPU supported GPUs is OS independent. But never did a Win Installation. |
| 19:14.03 | ham5urg | it just works so I never got deeper into it. |
| 19:14.16 | rwp | You *CAN* modify an ASIC. But the result unless extremely skilled will be a broken device. The exact same result from modifying firmware without the exact same skill. |
| 19:14.16 | *** join/#devuan watchcat (~wc@kite.riseup.net) |
| 19:14.40 | shift- | i think there's a considerable gap |
| 19:14.56 | shift- | excluding blobs is a really dumb decision though |
| 19:15.49 | specing | rwp: you can, with millions of dollars worth of equipment and the modifications will be very limited in scope |
| 19:15.55 | shift- | i mean, your bootup firmware is probably proprietary too |
| 19:15.58 | rwp | has modified ASICs before in my past career as a VLSI designer. Microprobing takes a steady hand. Just saying... |
| 19:16.00 | shift- | and you _can_ change it |
| 19:16.08 | specing | rwp: hence the "can" is only in theory. In practice it is impossible |
| 19:16.28 | rwp | Right. That was my implication. |
| 19:16.28 | shift- | i just mean i never saw the point |
| 19:16.52 | specing | rwp: so now that we've established that it is practically impossible, do you see the difference? |
| 19:16.53 | rwp | In theory you can modify the firmware. But in practice I can tell you that working on the design team we only modified those with extreme care. |
| 19:17.13 | specing | shift-: my bootup firmware is not proprietary, it is coreboot + GRUB |
| 19:17.22 | specing | shift-: Libreboot, to be more exact |
| 19:17.31 | rwp | BIOS is completely different from device firmware. |
| 19:17.38 | ham5urg | specing: which hardware? |
| 19:17.42 | specing | ham5urg: T400 |
| 19:18.06 | rwp | I am sure that LibreBoot and CoreBoot are the free(dom) BIOS replacements talking about here. |
| 19:18.49 | ham5urg | specing, quite old hardware |
| 19:19.21 | rwp | Most ASICs today are constructed using automated place and route tools. And every re-build run is literally a random result because statistical modeling is so often done. |
| 19:19.23 | ham5urg | is there any new stuff out there to install it's own BIOS |
| 19:19.25 | ham5urg | ? |
| 19:20.17 | specing | ham5urg: that is how far back you have to go to obtain some computing freedom |
| 19:20.19 | rwp | When things are getting close to release we don't like to do a complete turn. Sometimes bugs are found and we figure out how to fix them by tweaking something in order to avoid rebuilding the blob. Just make the smallest change possible because we don't have time to run through the months of QA and testing. |
| 19:20.26 | specing | ham5urg: Talos workstation |
| 19:20.36 | specing | ham5urg: ^ in production now |
| 19:21.04 | ham5urg | 14nm power9 CPUs |
| 19:21.11 | rwp | I think that when people think they want to tweak around on the firmware for these devices that they don't know what they don't know and definitely do not know how difficult it is to pull off changes there. |
| 19:21.34 | ham5urg | specing, any knowledge about this CPU? |
| 19:21.39 | rwp | And then even the FSF find that a ROM soldered onto the board containing the firmware is perfectly fine. |
| 19:21.41 | ham5urg | is it good? |
| 19:21.54 | specing | ham5urg: it is higher tier than amd/intel |
| 19:22.08 | specing | ham5urg: IBM big iron |
| 19:22.15 | ham5urg | I'm unsure if a 14nm can beat 7nm. |
| 19:22.24 | ham5urg | espiecially if used simd instructions |
| 19:23.36 | specing | ham5urg: it has free boot firmware and free microcode and free firmware for additional coprocessors, beat THAT! |
| 19:23.45 | ham5urg | Hehehe |
| 19:24.07 | ham5urg | Did you bought from your own pocket? 5 grands, man. |
| 19:26.38 | sxpert | specing: free rtl for the processor ? |
| 19:26.47 | specing | sxpert: nope |
| 19:27.03 | sxpert | free process for the chip manufacturing ? |
| 19:27.09 | specing | sxpert: but if you have enough money, then you can license it from the openpower foundation |
| 19:27.27 | specing | ham5urg: the cheapest machine starts at 1.4k iirc |
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| 19:28.11 | specing | sxpert: why are you asking this? Do you think intel/amd provide it? |
| 19:28.50 | specing | Right now IBM is really pushing the boundaries in open computing |
| 19:29.09 | specing | AND their processors are highly competitive with x86 offerings |
| 19:31.28 | sxpert | nope, but we have riscV and LibreSilicon coming up ;) |
| 19:32.00 | golinux | specing: You should know by now that OT belongs in #debianfork |
| 19:32.25 | golinux | This is a Devuan support channel |
| 19:33.42 | specing | sxpert: RISC-V went all the way to nvidia cards, very nice indeed |
| 19:33.59 | specing | golinux: nobody is asking devuan questions so ... |
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| 20:16.55 | golinux | <specing> golinux: nobody is asking devuan questions so ... |
| 20:17.22 | golinux | Exactly. Please move it to #debianfork when that happens. |
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| 20:49.52 | josuah | So in the end, installing devuan for a test in one of our servers worked out pretty good! |
| 20:50.26 | josuah | although, CTO said "haha, good! You,re not seriously pushing it in production though?" |
| 20:50.59 | josuah | so I said "noooo, I'm not of course (*mumble mumble too bad mumble*)!" |
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| 20:56.37 | xrogaan | what does he know? |
| 20:56.42 | xrogaan | or she |
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| 21:02.14 | josuah | xrogaan: he knows he has very few time to sleep and that even s/debian/devuan/g would be too much for this day. |
| 21:03.55 | josuah | but he also reacted like "ah, here is the debian we knew! where did it went all this time?" |
| 21:03.59 | josuah | s/went/go/ |
| 21:12.53 | golinux | It went down a rabbit hole to a very twisted place. |
| 21:13.50 | josuah | trapp asdf |
| 21:14.08 | josuah | sorry, brozen ssh session |
| 21:14.17 | josuah | frozen* |
| 21:14.29 | josuah | yes twisted place. twisted place. |
| 21:14.44 | xrogaan | you should tell him to subscribe to red hat. |
| 21:14.54 | xrogaan | 'cause that's what debian is becoming. |
| 21:15.18 | xrogaan | maybe that'll be enough to trigger a strong rejection and embrace devuan :P |
| 21:17.35 | josuah | how to make someone love spinaches? fill him with chocolate all day |
| 21:17.57 | josuah | cheap fat chocolate without taste and a lot of suggar |
| 21:18.41 | josuah | java chocolate with salty.exe grains |
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| 23:55.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | the good old arabian chocolate torture |