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| 04:41.15 | furrywolf | so, this isn't something devuan caused, but it sure would be nice if we fixed it... |
| 04:41.25 | furrywolf | menus are utterly fucking broken in ascii vs previous versions. |
| 04:42.49 | furrywolf | having half the packages use the nice, working, properly organized debian menu system, and half using the new, broken, utterly shittily organized new menu system, means you have to look about six places to find where programs ended up when you installed their packages, if anywhere. |
| 04:45.59 | furrywolf | like, why the fuck is freecad under "graphics", oregano under "education" (wtf?), and other idiocy with the new menu system (does it not have supmenus? did something decide more than ten categories would be too confusing?), while other things are only in the old menu system? |
| 04:46.27 | furrywolf | window managers that only use one of the two menu systems end up only showing half your programs |
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| 04:51.04 | furrywolf | can we please get rid of the worthless new menu system and stick everything back into the debian menu system? heh |
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| 04:53.00 | furrywolf | and, after finally finding an answer googling... there's only ten categories because freedesktop declared there should only be ten categories. |
| 04:53.11 | furrywolf | why the bloody fuck do we put up with fucking anything they do? |
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| 05:21.47 | rrq | mmm I'm not a freedesktop fan, but going to their latest spec, I found 13 main categories, 120 or so 'additional categories' and 4 'reserved categories'. https://specifications.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest... maybe that's an old spec of course. |
| 05:22.57 | furrywolf | there's only ten... for examle, video and audio are only used if you dont use audio and video, etc... and debian of course went for the least-descriptive set possible. debian only uses the topmost ten, absolutely no subcategories or anything else. |
| 05:24.06 | furrywolf | with the old debian menu system, cad software might be under Science->Engineering or Science->Electronics (depending on the program's focus)... while under the new system, they're randomly put into "Graphics" or "Education". |
| 05:24.59 | rrq | yes, I agree about rather following debuan-menu.. https://www.debian.org/doc/packaging-manuals/menu.html |
| 05:28.53 | furrywolf | regardless of the technical benefits of the menu system, this new cram-everything-into-dictated-categories total mess is stupid. |
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| 11:43.26 | Achylles | can devuan run on risc-V? |
| 11:44.10 | Achylles | Or is it to early? Has anyone tested this? |
| 11:53.39 | va7lnx | Achylles: what system use that arch? |
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| 11:59.52 | r3boot | Achylles: Debian does seem to support risc-v, e_noclue as to how much of this Devuan has imported (https://wiki.debian.org/RISC-V) |
| 12:01.48 | Achylles | r3boot, I know about debian... |
| 12:02.03 | Achylles | But, I am interested in devuan itself |
| 12:02.45 | Achylles | Thus my question if anyone has tested devuan in risc-v arch... |
| 12:06.23 | r3boot | (I dont know if the URL is used, but the cert for packages.devuan.org has expired) |
| 12:07.21 | r3boot | Achylles: I did a quick check for ISO's / package repo's. It seems that devuan only does i386 and amd64 atm |
| 12:08.00 | r3boot | So .. sounds like a nice project which can be picked up :) |
| 12:13.12 | Achylles | r3boot, if I had the know-how I would pick that up. Perhaps, someone else... |
| 12:14.11 | Achylles | Since devuan is a great distro and on risc-V should attract more users... |
| 12:14.18 | r3boot | Mja, that's part of running a new architecture, making sure that stuff gets ported so over time it can become mainstream |
| 12:14.32 | r3boot | if no-one does the porting, it simply wont happen |
| 12:14.47 | r3boot | (multiple good platforms have died that way btw) |
| 12:14.55 | r3boot | nofi or anything, just a general observation :) |
| 12:16.35 | r3boot | You could try to bootstrap devuan on risc-v using debian as a base, while following the LFS methodology of getting it ported |
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| 16:33.12 | Glats | its possible to avoid ssh agent and import the key every time you open a terminal? |
| 16:33.15 | Glats | in bash |
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| 17:10.34 | djph | Glats: what do you mean? like it asks you _every_ time you ssh somewhere? |
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| 17:12.47 | Glats | djph: look i found this https://github.com/wwalker/ssh-find-agent |
| 17:13.02 | Glats | for my purpose |
| 17:13.19 | Glats | but i dont wanna import that shell |
| 17:13.29 | Glats | i wanna something simple |
| 17:13.41 | djph | I still don't understand what you're asking |
| 17:14.04 | Glats | ok lemme exaplain |
| 17:14.24 | Glats | when you ran eval $(ssh-agent -s) |
| 17:14.31 | djph | I don't use ssh-agent ... |
| 17:14.34 | Glats | oh |
| 17:14.36 | Glats | ok |
| 17:14.41 | Glats | what do you use? |
| 17:15.31 | djph | for the hosts that don't use my main key, have them defined in .ssh/config |
| 17:15.44 | djph | type the password every time |
| 17:15.55 | Glats | yeah |
| 17:16.01 | Glats | i dont wanna do that |
| 17:16.07 | fsmithred | I see Agent pid ### |
| 17:16.56 | fsmithred | you can make a key with no password |
| 17:17.04 | Glats | look http://blog.joncairns.com/2013/12/understanding-ssh-agent-and-ssh-add/ |
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| 17:17.42 | Glats | my idea is to use the same agent across terminals |
| 17:20.03 | fsmithred | and you want to do that without running ssh-add? |
| 17:20.37 | Glats | no |
| 17:20.38 | Glats | you cant |
| 17:20.42 | fsmithred | Glats, do you have the same problem as the author? I don't. |
| 17:21.15 | fsmithred | I run ssh-add once, and I can use any terminal until I log out of the desktop. |
| 17:22.13 | Glats | i think is not optimized |
| 17:22.37 | Glats | you have to run ssh-agent then run ssh-add |
| 17:22.57 | fsmithred | oh, ssh-agent starts with the desktop |
| 17:23.06 | Glats | oh |
| 17:23.13 | Glats | ok |
| 17:23.14 | fsmithred | I don't actually understand the author's problem |
| 17:23.23 | Glats | he put in .bashrc |
| 17:23.32 | Glats | so every time he open a terminal |
| 17:23.37 | fsmithred | he says, "the bottom line is that we need to keep track of our agent's file socket to be able to be able to remember the passphrases for our keys across multiple shell sessions." |
| 17:23.44 | fsmithred | and I have no idea what he's talking about |
| 17:24.04 | Glats | yeah. but if you dont have a DE to handle your startup applications |
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| 17:24.33 | Glats | you put ssh-agent into .bashrc |
| 17:24.48 | fsmithred | oh, ok |
| 17:24.50 | Glats | so every time you open a terminal the ssh-agent will be executed |
| 17:24.54 | Glats | ok |
| 17:25.01 | fsmithred | I just put -i on the command line in those cases |
| 17:25.02 | Glats | so you put the agent into the startup application |
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| 17:25.42 | Glats | alongside ssh right? |
| 17:25.45 | Glats | like |
| 17:26.03 | fsmithred | yes, ssh -i .ssh/id.whatever user@host |
| 17:26.04 | Glats | ssh -i keyring user@ip |
| 17:26.07 | Glats | yeah |
| 17:26.07 | Glats | ok |
| 17:26.18 | Glats | yeah. thats another way |
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| 17:29.13 | Glats | fsmithred: but if you use git? |
| 17:29.18 | Glats | you cant pass -i option |
| 17:29.28 | Glats | so thats why i need the ssh-agent |
| 17:29.54 | Glats | (git through ssh) |
| 17:30.10 | fsmithred | there must be some way to put that option into git |
| 17:30.32 | fsmithred | in a config file. But that's a guess. |
| 17:30.44 | fsmithred | so yeah, I understand the problem now |
| 17:30.52 | Glats | no. it doesnt |
| 17:31.09 | Glats | actually they tell you to use the agent hahaha |
| 17:31.54 | fsmithred | I noticed git's also unhappy if I'm connected by ssh to the machine that is communicating with gitlab. It won't let me push. |
| 17:32.47 | Leander | what about if you use your .ssh/config for the git-specific options? |
| 17:32.55 | Glats | look |
| 17:32.57 | Glats | https://unix.stackexchange.com/a/132117 |
| 17:33.01 | Glats | now i get it |
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| 17:33.27 | Glats | .bashrc *always* load the environment when you open a new terminal |
| 17:38.02 | Leander | I don't have the example at hand, but I have two different github accounts, and in order to choose one or the other, I use machine names like github-account1 and github-account2 (in the .git/config file) which correspond to github-account1 and github-account2 entries in .ssh/config |
| 17:38.48 | Glats | ok |
| 17:38.56 | Glats | could be a nice aproach |
| 17:40.14 | Glats | https://build-me-the-docs-please.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Using_Git/SetUpSSHForGit.html |
| 17:41.36 | DonkeyHotei | SSH_AUTH_SOCK= ssh foo@bar |
| 17:43.07 | Glats | but my next aproach is to take all my keys saved it in ~/.ssh/ and add it in the agent |
| 17:43.25 | Glats | with a loop or something |
| 17:44.25 | Glats | and with ssh-add -l you can get every key loaded and you cant avoid to load twice the samekey |
| 17:44.45 | Glats | s/samekey/same key/ |
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| 17:54.27 | Glats | https://gist.github.com/glats/c0d6107218b6af9c7252bf54f939a322 |
| 17:54.29 | Glats | finally :P |
| 17:59.39 | furrywolf | blarg, this whole menu thing is pissing me off. I spent three hours reading the discussion on it, and it's all the exact same arguments that got us systemd. |
| 18:00.01 | furrywolf | "only 20% of people still use it, and they should get with the program" is _not_ how open-source decisions should be made. |
| 18:00.42 | iovec | meanwhile https://seclists.org/oss-sec/2019/q1/140 |
| 18:00.52 | furrywolf | nor is "another major distro has switched to it, so we should too" |
| 18:00.55 | iovec | aka you never listened to us when we said PID 1 should be simple |
| 18:01.50 | furrywolf | nor is "everyone refusing to switch to something newer is obviously a luddite moron stuck in their ways and refusing to accept any kind of change" |
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