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| 00:39.00 | filipdevuan_ | omg iv read some interviews about this lennart poettering and uhh vista macos amazing linux bad and then google knows it all like wtf he promotes google so he can't be good he's evil guy |
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| 00:54.41 | ChuangTzu1 | Hi all, finally able to get back on :) |
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| 03:41.10 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | **You might need to auth to nickserv to talk!** | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ |
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| 05:57.11 | pupuser9837261 | so, is it true that microsoft owns the corp that flung systemd upon our community? |
| 05:58.14 | jonadab | Heh. That would be fitting, I suppose. But no. |
| 05:58.49 | pupuser9837261 | um, don't they own redhat now? |
| 05:59.07 | jonadab | No. |
| 06:00.06 | pupuser9837261 | when i uname -a, does "smp preempt" mean i'm only using one processor? |
| 06:01.35 | gnarface | pupuser9837261: IBM bought RedHat. the answer to the second question is "no" |
| 06:02.24 | gnarface | i'm pretty sure those are two separate unrelated flags |
| 06:02.45 | jonadab | Not sure how unrelated they are, but they're separate and have independent meaning, yeah. |
| 06:03.18 | gnarface | the first one is symmetric multi processing and i think the second one is something about preempt-able interrupts |
| 06:03.30 | jonadab | Sounds right. |
| 06:07.04 | pupuser9837261 | what distro is going to be next to join the WithoutSystemd distro list? |
| 06:07.39 | pupuser9837261 | seems like a short list |
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| 06:19.12 | Leander | for questions not directly related to using devuan, you can join on #debianfork |
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| 06:33.08 | golinux | Thank you Leander. |
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| 13:17.41 | jsl123 | Hi All! |
| 13:19.20 | jsl123 | Anyone able to help me out with a "ascii lite live" in a VM (qemu)? Can't login as root (no password?) Can't "sudo" as user devuan as she is not sudoers... How are we supposed to become root? :-) |
| 13:19.53 | jsl123 | *is not *in* sudoers |
| 13:21.52 | debdog | try toor as root password |
| 13:22.39 | jsl123 | OK. That worked! Thank's debdog :-) |
| 13:22.55 | debdog | np hf |
| 13:28.55 | jsl123 | While we are at it: ;-) Need to re-factor the live image since I need to get the console to serial. (Just a few changes to inittab, isolinux and/or grub). Is there a wiki or help for remastering? |
| 13:29.21 | jsl123 | Or are there even ready "serial only" images? |
| 13:30.36 | KatolaZ | jsl123: root/toor |
| 13:30.44 | KatolaZ | should be in the README |
| 13:31.11 | KatolaZ | jsl123: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/desktop-live/README.txt |
| 13:32.09 | KatolaZ | jsl123: https://git.devuan.org/sdk/live-sdk |
| 13:32.17 | KatolaZ | this is how live images are created |
| 13:32.37 | KatolaZ | you have a minimal howto there |
| 13:32.47 | KatolaZ | and you can have a look at the two "blends" currently available |
| 13:33.07 | KatolaZ | devuan-live is the desktop version |
| 13:33.15 | KatolaZ | devuan-minimal-live is the minimal live |
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| 13:49.14 | jsl123 | @KatolaZ: The second one, the README in the SDK did the trick! Thanks |
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| 14:45.48 | jsl123 | @KatolaZ: Found you all over the sources and in the docs... ;-) I now managed to get a complete system with serial console redirection from the BIOS, teh bootloader to the login. (Complete w/o VGA) Runs fine in qemu on a (virtual) "pentium2" CPU. But when I start it on my h/w, it seems to be stuck very early. (Even in isolinux?) Do you know about the CPU specifications which are needed by this kernel? |
| 14:46.32 | KatolaZ | jsl123: how much ram do you have? |
| 14:46.40 | jsl123 | Trying to run on a Vortex86DX |
| 14:46.46 | jsl123 | 256MB |
| 14:46.52 | KatolaZ | the initramfs might require a lot of ram |
| 14:46.58 | KatolaZ | mmmhhh |
| 14:47.05 | KatolaZ | are you sure it is a 686 CPU? |
| 14:47.13 | KatolaZ | (not a 586 one?) |
| 14:47.21 | KatolaZ | (just wondering, sorry if the question is silly) |
| 14:47.30 | jsl123 | It's a Pentium. Only a few things missing. Like TSC |
| 14:47.43 | KatolaZ | jsl123: then it's 586... |
| 14:47.46 | jsl123 | But h/w FPU |
| 14:47.50 | KatolaZ | bad news, I am afraid :\ |
| 14:48.51 | jsl123 | Hmmm. My old "2.6.36" kernel was running fine on this! ;-) |
| 14:49.02 | KatolaZ | jsl123: it's not a matter of kernel |
| 14:49.07 | KatolaZ | it's a matter of ABI |
| 14:49.15 | KatolaZ | I guess you were using a much older distro on that |
| 14:49.18 | KatolaZ | not just the kernel |
| 14:49.20 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 14:50.11 | jsl123 | No distro. Hand-grown embedded stuff. Which ABI you mean (essantially) that (g)libc uses h/w facilities from the CPU? |
| 14:50.13 | KatolaZ | the problem is that Debian-i386 (and thus Devuan) is compiled for i686 |
| 14:50.23 | jsl123 | s/Which/With/ |
| 14:50.29 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 14:50.47 | jsl123 | Ah. Yes. That makes complete sense! |
| 14:51.02 | KatolaZ | we thought about having a i586 minimal system |
| 14:51.12 | KatolaZ | but the issue is that you need to rebuild most of the repo |
| 14:51.35 | KatolaZ | we don't have that much man-power for that at the moment jsl123 |
| 14:51.38 | KatolaZ | sorry! :\ |
| 14:51.41 | jsl123 | I remember about them (i586/i486 distros) a few years ago... |
| 14:51.54 | KatolaZ | I guess the easiest would be LFS |
| 14:51.59 | KatolaZ | just cross-build |
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| 14:52.10 | KatolaZ | I have done it several times |
| 14:52.39 | KatolaZ | or use a distro that still supports i586 |
| 14:52.49 | jsl123 | OK. But thank you for your time and patience. And for your work on devuan! I might come back later to your distro with other h/w... |
| 14:52.56 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 14:53.05 | KatolaZ | hope you do, if you need so ;) |
| 14:53.17 | jsl123 | Perhaps i'll try LFS, though. Bye! Have a nice day |
| 14:53.21 | KatolaZ | (and BTW, the distro is not mine :P) |
| 14:54.00 | jsl123 | Yes, but you seem to spend a lot of effort into it |
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| 17:34.44 | linfa | hello everyone. Is there a way to install devuan as an LXC container? |
| 17:35.50 | linfa | I found this repo online, but since the last commit is of over 2 years ago I am not sure about it: https://github.com/gregoryolsen/lxc-devuan |
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| 17:49.50 | jonadab | I don't know that much about LXC containers, but it's not clear to me whether the word "as" in your question means "inside of" or "hosting". |
| 17:50.07 | jonadab | Which are quite different questions. |
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| 18:00.06 | linfa | hi jonadab , well, both. Is a devuan machine, and I'd like to make a devuan lxc =) I tried using that script, but I have an error: http://paste.debian.net/1053309/ |
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| 18:10.38 | golinux | linfa: There was someone who set that up a while ago. I'll see if I can find it. |
| 18:11.09 | jonadab | This seems relevant: E: Release signed by unknown key (key id 94532124541922FB) |
| 18:11.21 | linfa | thanks golinux |
| 18:11.58 | jonadab | I am guessing you haven't installed/authorized/whatever the public key corresponding to the person who published that root filesystem image. |
| 18:12.42 | jonadab | Again, I don't know that much about LXC, but a root filesystem image seems pretty important, so if you're not getting that because of a signature check, that could easily derail your whole install. |
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| 18:14.05 | epitamizor | how do i update kernel to newer from ascii repo? |
| 18:15.06 | golinux | try ascii backports |
| 18:15.24 | nemo | oooh that reminds me. gotta see if the debian backports with the fix for my laptop is finally out |
| 18:15.51 | golinux | If debian has it devuan will have it |
| 18:16.06 | golinux | Never use debian repos directly |
| 18:16.32 | golinux | try pkginfo.devuan.org |
| 18:17.13 | nemo | golinux: yeah. I know. I established here that you guys don't modify kernel, then like six months ago begged someone on debian kernel team to enable the requisite flag |
| 18:17.21 | nemo | it's just been taking a loooooong time to filter down to backports ⺠|
| 18:17.42 | linfa | thanks jonadab, there should be a way to ignore missing signatures, I'll look for it |
| 18:18.24 | KatolaZ | epitamizor: ascii-backports has 4.17 and 4.18 |
| 18:20.44 | nemo | the bug report was closed with fixed as of 4.18.10-1 |
| 18:20.47 | epitamizor | oh ok I was just running apt-get upgrade, but that didn't install kernel i see |
| 18:20.58 | epitamizor | manual install? |
| 18:21.04 | nemo | gonna guess that means |
| 18:21.04 | nemo | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:21.10 | nemo | does not have the fix yet â¹ |
| 18:21.29 | nemo | bug was closed 2 months ago, guess I just have to keep waiting |
| 18:23.01 | jonadab | Or compile your own kernel ;-) |
| 18:23.31 | epitamizor | thats what i usually do but was thinking it could be via the package manager |
| 18:23.31 | golinux | linfa: I don't have time to do research right now. Check the DNG mail list and the dev1galaxy forum.Perhaps you could install Debian and upgrade to devuan. |
| 18:23.48 | nemo | jonadab: I did in fact try that |
| 18:24.04 | KatolaZ | nemo: do not look at the package name... |
| 18:24.06 | jonadab | It has been quite some time since I compiled my own kernel. |
| 18:24.07 | nemo | jonadab: but... I was hoping to stick to the debian package and it rapidly became an ugly mess |
| 18:24.42 | jonadab | Pretty sure it was before I returned to Debian (which happened when sarge was released). |
| 18:24.57 | jonadab | So I probably have never compiled a kernel for an apt-based system. |
| 18:25.26 | nemo | KatolaZ: linux-image-4.18.0-2-amd64 is the one the bug report says has the fix |
| 18:25.34 | KatolaZ | again |
| 18:25.36 | nemo | .0-2 seems newer than .0-0 |
| 18:25.44 | KatolaZ | do not look at the version number you have there |
| 18:25.47 | KatolaZ | look inside the package |
| 18:26.09 | KatolaZ | apt-cache show linux-image-whatever |
| 18:26.30 | nemo | KatolaZ: oh. well. I don't want to install the broken one since it's a pain to restore the fragile env I have right now |
| 18:26.34 | KatolaZ | that will tell you which kernel versio it is (under "Version: ") |
| 18:26.41 | nemo | KatolaZ: which is based off of hackz and a debian kernel author provided image |
| 18:26.42 | KatolaZ | you don't need to install it |
| 18:26.45 | nemo | ok |
| 18:26.50 | KatolaZ | read above |
| 18:26.51 | nemo | thought apt-cache required that |
| 18:26.59 | epitamizor | so I'm planning on installing devuan, one with runit init and one with openrc init to test usuability |
| 18:27.01 | KatolaZ | apt-cache show linux-image-whatever |
| 18:27.42 | nemo | ok. so Version: 4.18.6-1~bpo9+1 |
| 18:27.46 | nemo | so not fixed |
| 18:28.19 | epitamizor | i'm thinking it should be possible to install openrc and runit on same system, just tell which init system to boot at grub? |
| 18:28.31 | epitamizor | is that a good idea |
| 18:35.01 | KatolaZ | nemo: it will get into backports sooner or later |
| 18:35.27 | nemo | sure sure |
| 18:35.29 | nemo | just impatient |
| 18:35.32 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 18:35.34 | nemo | since I'm stuck on this semi-broken kernel |
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| 18:35.42 | KatolaZ | De??aners are never impatient |
| 18:35.47 | nemo | KatolaZ: symlinked gcc6 to gcc7 just to get it to install |
| 18:35.59 | KatolaZ | nemo: you can use beowulf |
| 18:36.12 | KatolaZ | be careful: session management does not work for now |
| 18:36.19 | KatolaZ | but you could help with testing |
| 18:36.58 | *** join/#devuan ServiceRobot (~alec@2601:45:4003:8fcb::f234) |
| 18:37.17 | nemo | but I guess can't hurt to try |
| 18:37.47 | KatolaZ | it might hurt |
| 18:37.51 | KatolaZ | so you are warned |
| 18:37.53 | KatolaZ | L) |
| 18:38.02 | ServiceRobot | so I heard devuan and debian collaborated on a new sysvinit release? |
| 18:38.02 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:38.12 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: yup |
| 18:38.45 | ServiceRobot | ah good. I read that an init independent debian was in the works, or at least talk between devs? |
| 18:38.53 | ServiceRobot | or SOMETHING |
| 18:40.00 | KatolaZ | dunno about that |
| 18:40.11 | KatolaZ | and I don't think there is a plan for that |
| 18:40.29 | ServiceRobot | I'd have to find the comment about it |
| 18:41.10 | golinux | The work is being described as "init-diversity" |
| 18:41.52 | ServiceRobot | well that's better than nothing I guess |
| 18:42.31 | ServiceRobot | people keep dissing devuan as being exactly the same as debian but with sysvinit installed by default, but if it become more init agnostic, that statement would become very untrue |
| 18:42.45 | ServiceRobot | been following the mailing list for a while and seen some very interesting discussion |
| 18:43.07 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: the true thing is that Devuan will never have systemd |
| 18:43.20 | KatolaZ | and Devuan already allows to choose openrc at install time in ascii |
| 18:43.20 | nemo | KatolaZ: would rather like to avoid breaking my SO's laptop further so I guess I'll pass on beowulf for now |
| 18:43.40 | KatolaZ | (in expert install only for the moment) |
| 18:43.49 | ServiceRobot | I tried beowulf out. it boots and works fine, and has the version of software I want for hosting servers |
| 18:43.53 | nemo | KatolaZ: might maybe try it on the work laptop |
| 18:43.53 | KatolaZ | so in this sense it's a bit more init-agnostic than Debian |
| 18:44.14 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: since you are using openrc (IIRC) please help testing the latest unstable installer |
| 18:44.31 | ServiceRobot | yes, but all it does is install sysvinit installed of systemd, blacklists systemd, as well as other packages that rely on systemd? |
| 18:44.35 | ServiceRobot | I'm actually using runit |
| 18:44.52 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: who does that ? |
| 18:44.59 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 18:45.04 | ServiceRobot | that's what I'm asking if that's how it works |
| 18:45.12 | KatolaZ | it's not just a matter of blacklisting |
| 18:45.28 | KatolaZ | Devuan also provides alternative versions of packages that require systemd in Debian |
| 18:45.35 | KatolaZ | they are forked and rebuilt |
| 18:45.39 | KatolaZ | without systemd support |
| 18:45.58 | ServiceRobot | could we get opentmpfiles then, as well as elogind? I'd love to help get those in |
| 18:45.59 | KatolaZ | or used with elogind, if session management is what they need systemd for |
| 18:46.04 | ServiceRobot | oh |
| 18:46.14 | KatolaZ | or consolekit, if that is enough |
| 18:46.20 | ServiceRobot | opentmpfiles is still not available I think though |
| 18:46.27 | ServiceRobot | consolekit doesnt' work well for me |
| 18:46.34 | ServiceRobot | I thought development stopped on it? |
| 18:46.38 | ServiceRobot | consolekit2 |
| 18:46.45 | KatolaZ | consolekit2 |
| 18:46.55 | KatolaZ | we have consolekit2 in unstable |
| 18:46.59 | KatolaZ | thanks to Centurion_Dan |
| 18:47.03 | ServiceRobot | ah, not in beowulf? |
| 18:47.11 | KatolaZ | will get to beowulf as well |
| 18:47.28 | ServiceRobot | beowulf takes in packages from unstable after 10 days like buster no? |
| 18:47.36 | KatolaZ | more or less |
| 18:47.38 | KatolaZ | after a while |
| 18:47.43 | ServiceRobot | probably would go for beowulf then |
| 18:47.50 | KatolaZ | sometimes immediately, if we know they will not cause breakage |
| 18:47.59 | ServiceRobot | that extra 10 days adds a bit more stablity I would assume |
| 18:48.07 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: it depends |
| 18:48.09 | ServiceRobot | *stability |
| 18:48.21 | KatolaZ | it depends on how many people are using unstable |
| 18:48.24 | KatolaZ | and reporting bugs |
| 18:48.45 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: welcome to help |
| 18:48.55 | KatolaZ | please join devuan-dev (the ML) |
| 18:49.01 | KatolaZ | if you are not there yet |
| 18:49.12 | ServiceRobot | I was on there for a bit. seems to be more activity here |
| 18:49.21 | KatolaZ | and/or if you want to help with getting runit as another install option for Devuan |
| 18:49.27 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: activity is in bursts |
| 18:49.33 | KatolaZ | there is much activity right now |
| 18:49.57 | epitamizor | i need to get my system set up first |
| 18:50.03 | ServiceRobot | well, I've been working on a runit implementation that essentially uses Artix Linux's way of doing things. it's a bit strange |
| 18:50.43 | ServiceRobot | then there's aws devuan, who hosts a modified void runit for devuan specifically. I asked the dev directly if he'd be willing to pitch in |
| 18:51.11 | ServiceRobot | the thing is there are MANY ways to go about this |
| 18:51.16 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: if you want to see it in Devuan, just work on it |
| 18:51.19 | KatolaZ | package it |
| 18:51.27 | KatolaZ | we'll build it |
| 18:51.30 | KatolaZ | ask for testers |
| 18:51.34 | ServiceRobot | it's in testing phase at the moment |
| 18:51.42 | KatolaZ | there are several people in DNG interested in runit |
| 18:51.59 | ServiceRobot | how important is backwards compatibility in this case? file locations don't make sense with debian's runit implementation |
| 18:52.04 | ServiceRobot | I spoke on the DNG |
| 18:52.28 | ServiceRobot | I even spoke with the debian maintainer of runit, who sort of fixed the problems I reported, but not exactly how I'd like |
| 18:52.30 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: backward compatibility is essential on upgrades |
| 18:52.52 | KatolaZ | but is less of a problem in new installations |
| 18:53.07 | ServiceRobot | hmmm, well here's the thing about that and runit. services are stored in /etc/sv. that's fine. running services are stored in /etc/service. not fine |
| 18:53.20 | ServiceRobot | because /etc could become read-only |
| 18:53.51 | KatolaZ | when should /etc become ro? |
| 18:54.02 | ServiceRobot | my solution uses /run/runit/service, but as you said, that would break backwards compatiblity |
| 18:54.30 | ServiceRobot | also, /etc/service is symlinked to /etc/runit/runsvdir/default, which creates another problem |
| 18:54.37 | ServiceRobot | essentially, it's a bit of a mess |
| 18:54.46 | KatolaZ | ServiceRobot: I have never run runit |
| 18:54.56 | KatolaZ | please let's discuss this with other devs |
| 18:54.58 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:55.04 | ServiceRobot | in devuan-dev? |
| 18:55.10 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 18:55.27 | ServiceRobot | I can explain how it works there if you want, although I don't know everything about it |
| 18:55.30 | KatolaZ | but the best way would be to have packages to test |
| 18:55.56 | ServiceRobot | never actually created a debian package myself. I assume it's not hard |
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| 20:45.29 | mchasard | hi |
| 20:47.44 | mchasard | how to install locales please ? |
| 20:47.59 | mchasard | i'm under crowz derivative devuan |
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| 22:15.55 | Centurion_Dan | ServiceRobot: I'm keen to help with packaging and I think we can deal with the transition from debians runit as a part of the pre & postinstall process. |
| 22:17.10 | Centurion_Dan | come over to #devuan-dev to discuss further, and/or join the devuan-dev mailinglist and start a thread there tagged with [runit-init] |
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