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| 02:31.21 | *** topic/#devuan is This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | **You need to auth to nickserv to talk!** | Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 LTS release | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
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| 09:21.07 | man_in_shack | waves |
| 09:25.11 | man_in_shack | is there a comparison of the different init services listed somewhere? :) |
| 09:37.03 | ryuujin | man_in_shack: in gentoo wiki there's a nice comparison: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Comparison_of_init_systems |
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| 12:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | UGH [DNG] jaromil >>https://linux.slashdot.org/story/18/09/22/0150209/new-custom-linux-distro-is-systemd-free-debian-based-and-optimized-for-windows-10 licensing-wise has a rather dodgy change to MIT<< WRF how could they change licensing from GPL to anything else? |
| 12:16.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | ROTFL >>It can also be downloaded from Microsoft Store at a 50% discount,<< |
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| 12:56.39 | man_in_shack | wat wat wat |
| 12:56.53 | man_in_shack | "custom linux distro optimised for windows 10"? |
| 12:57.23 | nemo | well, windows 10 does have that linux-compatible posix subsystem now |
| 12:57.30 | nemo | embrace-extend-extinguish! |
| 12:57.42 | nemo | but. yeah ⺠|
| 12:58.03 | nemo | ah. that's exactly what the article is about |
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| 13:02.32 | man_in_shack | reading up on all the bullshit systemd does on suckless.org |
| 13:02.48 | man_in_shack | and why debian deicded to go with systemd in the first place |
| 13:03.10 | man_in_shack | and i'm sitting here wondering, why is having PID1 talk over dbus considered a GOOD thing? |
| 13:03.37 | man_in_shack | what possible advantage can that have? |
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| 13:09.43 | MinceR | i wonder how is it a "Linux distro" if it doesn't even contain Linux |
| 13:13.35 | man_in_shack | yah |
| 13:13.43 | man_in_shack | that's slashdot for you |
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| 13:18.34 | fsmithred | man_in_shack, PID1 needs to control everything to make sure it's done the right way. 'Cause the old way is wrong. |
| 13:33.30 | nemo | man_in_shack: you'd probably enjoy my fav rant I ran into on without-systemd.org |
| 13:33.32 | nemo | lemme dig it up |
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| 13:34.56 | nemo | oof. lot of articles in http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/List_of_articles_critical_of_systemd |
| 13:35.04 | nemo | trying to rember. it was a good rant. |
| 13:36.05 | ryuujin | woohhaa |
| 13:36.56 | man_in_shack | yah, i did a little reading there too |
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| 13:43.29 | nemo | " |
| 13:43.29 | nemo | And yes, a large part of this may be that I no longer feel like I can |
| 13:43.29 | nemo | trust "init" to do the sane thing. You all presumably know why. |
| 13:43.30 | nemo | " |
| 13:43.36 | nemo | -- linux |
| 13:43.39 | nemo | *s |
| 13:43.45 | nemo | god my fingers keep wanting to type s |
| 13:43.49 | nemo | *x aaaagh |
| 13:46.23 | nemo | man_in_shack: http://wizardofbits.tumblr.com/post/45232318557/systemd-more-like-shit-stemd â this was my favourite rant - had to go into the history to find it |
| 13:46.29 | nemo | someone removed it from list of articles â¹ |
| 13:46.42 | nemo | man_in_shack: apparently someone doesn't enjoy a good rant. |
| 13:48.09 | man_in_shack | heh |
| 13:54.21 | man_in_shack | hmm |
| 13:54.39 | man_in_shack | trying to switch from debian to devuan and apt is ignoring all the devuan files |
| 13:54.55 | KatolaZ | man_in_shack: what do you mean? |
| 13:54.59 | KatolaZ | which debian release? |
| 13:55.04 | KatolaZ | which Devuan repos are you using? |
| 13:55.15 | KatolaZ | are you going through the upgrade howto? |
| 13:55.48 | KatolaZ | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/ <- man_in_shack |
| 13:57.52 | man_in_shack | huh |
| 13:58.10 | man_in_shack | wasn't working with deb.devuan, is working with pkgmaster.devuan |
| 13:58.20 | man_in_shack | deb/sid => devu/ceres |
| 14:00.21 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 14:00.27 | KatolaZ | define "wasn't working|" |
| 14:00.36 | KatolaZ | (please) |
| 14:01.00 | jaromil | i actually am just hitting a bug in dash |
| 14:01.08 | man_in_shack | "wasn't working" = Ign on every devuan file when doing apt update |
| 14:01.14 | man_in_shack | and looping |
| 14:01.16 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 14:01.22 | jaromil | but is unrelated |
| 14:01.23 | KatolaZ | can you please try again? |
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| 14:01.30 | KatolaZ | jaromil:bug in dash? |
| 14:01.35 | jaromil | however beowulf gets a new dash package from debian which is broken |
| 14:01.37 | jaromil | yes |
| 14:01.42 | KatolaZ | ffs |
| 14:01.44 | jaromil | Adding 'diversion of /usr/share/man/man1/sh.1.gz to /usr/share/man/man1/sh.distrib.1.gz by dash' |
| 14:01.47 | KatolaZ | which one ? |
| 14:01.49 | jaromil | Errors were encountered while processing: |
| 14:01.52 | jaromil | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:02.00 | jaromil | E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1) |
| 14:02.03 | man_in_shack | still Ign |
| 14:02.20 | jaromil | also visible here https://travis-ci.org/DECODEproject/decode-os/builds/432953915 |
| 14:02.21 | KatolaZ | man_in_shack: which line are you using? |
| 14:02.55 | KatolaZ | jaromil: I have that package installed |
| 14:03.03 | KatolaZ | was upgraded yesterday I guess |
| 14:03.05 | man_in_shack | http://dpaste.com/377PRNS |
| 14:03.47 | man_in_shack | deb [allow-insecure=yes arch=amd64] https://deb.devuan.org/merged ceres main |
| 14:04.06 | KatolaZ | man_in_shack: http not https |
| 14:04.14 | KatolaZ | there is no https support for deb.devuan.org |
| 14:04.16 | KatolaZ | it's a DNS rr |
| 14:04.20 | KatolaZ | (Round-Robin) |
| 14:04.24 | KatolaZ | http-only |
| 14:04.30 | jaromil | KatolaZ: i think it breaks on minimal systems |
| 14:04.33 | jaromil | that have no manpages |
| 14:04.44 | jaromil | or something like that |
| 14:04.46 | KatolaZ | if you want https, use one of the mirrors listed at https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/mirror_list.txt |
| 14:04.49 | man_in_shack | oop (: |
| 14:04.50 | KatolaZ | man_in_shack: ^^^^ |
| 14:04.56 | KatolaZ | jaromil: I see |
| 14:04.59 | man_in_shack | that makes sense then |
| 14:05.04 | KatolaZ | we sould investigate that I guess |
| 14:05.26 | KatolaZ | jaromil: is that image obtained with debootstrap? |
| 14:05.50 | KatolaZ | or by "other means"? |
| 14:06.15 | KatolaZ | maybe some package has been promoted to "essential" and you are not pulling it by not using debootstrap <- jaromil |
| 14:06.35 | KatolaZ | bbl |
| 14:06.37 | KatolaZ | o/ |
| 14:06.57 | man_in_shack | who wants to buy me an internet connection i can run an australian mirror on? :D |
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| 14:12.00 | man_in_shack | "update-rc.d: warning: start and stop actions are no longer supported" the fuck? |
| 14:12.12 | man_in_shack | i assume that's some systemd shit |
| 14:14.02 | man_in_shack | huh. lightdm depends on libpam-systemd | consolekit [UNAVAILABLE] |
| 14:14.05 | man_in_shack | :( |
| 14:16.11 | jaromil | KatolaZ: yes, the base image is obtained by update from debian |
| 14:16.22 | jaromil | as per olaf meuwissen's base docker images |
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| 14:17.17 | man_in_shack | consolekit in experimental and ascii but not beowolf or ceres |
| 14:17.19 | man_in_shack | fun |
| 14:22.52 | golinux | man_in_shack: The best rant ever! http://lkml.iu.edu//hypermail/linux/kernel/1408.1/02496.html |
| 14:23.40 | golinux | is just now reading the backlogs |
| 14:23.54 | man_in_shack | hm |
| 14:24.10 | man_in_shack | do i want polkit-backend-consolekit or polkit-backend-elogind? :) |
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| 14:25.44 | fsmithred | man_in_shack, it depends on whether you're using consolekit or elogind |
| 14:26.11 | man_in_shack | well if i go with sysvinit-core + consolekit, elogind also got selected by aptitude |
| 14:27.10 | fsmithred | what's pulling in elogind? |
| 14:27.55 | fsmithred | what desktop and display manager do you have? |
| 14:28.04 | fsmithred | (or want) |
| 14:28.07 | golinux | man_in_shack: Read the ascii release notes: https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/Release_notes.txt |
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| 14:31.19 | man_in_shack | aptitude is selecting libpam-elogind from policykit-1 |
| 14:33.20 | man_in_shack | ok, i've selected packages differently, now it wants consolekit :P |
| 14:33.28 | man_in_shack | but looks like lightdm works better with elogind |
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| 14:38.46 | golinux | man_in_shack: Yes. There is a post about that on the forum. |
| 14:41.36 | fsmithred | power buttons in lightdm seem to need consolekit |
| 14:43.28 | fsmithred | bb in 20min |
| 14:43.42 | fsmithred | this might be helpful: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?pid=11829#p11829 |
| 14:48.44 | man_in_shack | oh fun |
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| 14:48.57 | man_in_shack | sysvinit has decided to kexec instead of rebooting :P |
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| 15:06.38 | man_in_shack | ok |
| 15:07.20 | man_in_shack | need to see sysvinit boot log |
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| 15:57.33 | man_in_shack | kexec seems unhappy with me :D |
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| 16:01.54 | man_in_shack | so, sysvinit + elogind, getting a message on boot, "udevd: Error running install command for nvidia" |
| 16:03.10 | man_in_shack | /lib/udev/nvidia_helper runs /lib/udev/udev-acl, which is only present in consolekit package |
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| 16:07.35 | man_in_shack | huh. switching to consolekit didn't fix that error |
| 16:07.44 | man_in_shack | although it doesn't seem to affect functionality at all |
| 16:08.28 | man_in_shack | switching to consolekit DID fix lightdm's power menu though :D |
| 16:11.29 | man_in_shack | welp so much for systemd being about speed. shave off 2 seconds of my boot time by switching to sysvinit |
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| 16:33.07 | man_in_shack | openrc in parallel mode is even faster again |
| 16:34.39 | man_in_shack | i can probably cut it down further by fixing some semi-broken stuff :D |
| 16:36.01 | telst4r | it's all about boot time, right ? :D |
| 16:38.42 | man_in_shack | obviously |
| 16:39.19 | man_in_shack | if systemd was faster than alternatives, i'd be both confused and disappointed |
| 16:40.16 | telst4r | why? |
| 16:40.38 | sxpert | systemd is broken by design |
| 16:40.41 | man_in_shack | confused because it's a massively bloated piece of shit |
| 16:41.06 | man_in_shack | disappointed because leaner alternatives should be faster by definition |
| 16:41.43 | sxpert | I don't really care about being fast, I don't reboot machines often |
| 16:42.48 | telst4r | I'm not sure about that. if it's just a yuge pile of doo, wouldn't it require less of calls and buses and inter-operability with other programs? hence less waiting and memory lookups (In very loosely thought theory) |
| 16:43.50 | sxpert | I'd rather have a does one thing at a time, reliably, thing, that this pile of garbage |
| 16:43.59 | man_in_shack | agrees with sxpert |
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| 16:44.08 | man_in_shack | the fuck does PID1 need dbus for? (: |
| 16:44.27 | telst4r | sxpert, oh you unix ppl.. :) |
| 16:44.32 | sxpert | the fuck does PID1 needs a integrated webserver and QRcodes display |
| 16:45.08 | sxpert | telst4r: hehe |
| 16:45.28 | telst4r | sxpert, well.. if they're ever gonna create a bitcoin fullnode in systemd it has this qr display.... |
| 16:45.51 | sxpert | telst4r: EDONTCARE |
| 16:46.22 | sxpert | useless piece of junk spotted ;-) (both systemd and bitcoin) |
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| 16:46.34 | telst4r | :D |
| 16:48.42 | sxpert | proposes to hang this lennard fellow next time he shows up ;) |
| 16:48.50 | man_in_shack | the fuck does PID1 need any networking stuff at all? |
| 16:49.43 | man_in_shack | network stuff breaking was what pushed me over the edge |
| 16:50.03 | man_in_shack | everything else i can put up with systemd being bloated, insecure, poorly designed shit |
| 16:50.28 | telst4r | "just don't run it" -- alright, thanks for the advice. |
| 16:51.06 | sxpert | goes back to twm.. none of that systemd/wayland bullshit |
| 16:51.34 | man_in_shack | throws ncurses at sxpert |
| 16:52.41 | sxpert | thank you ! |
| 16:53.06 | man_in_shack | nothing inherently wrong with wayland |
| 16:53.38 | man_in_shack | although it wouldn't surprise me if systemd ends up with a wayland server in it |
| 16:53.44 | sxpert | can't do remote display... can't use it |
| 16:54.04 | man_in_shack | send all your pixels via dbus |
| 16:54.31 | telst4r | throws up freedesktop.org error messages |
| 16:55.15 | sxpert | throws up... |
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| 17:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>send all your pixels via dbus<< afaik some 100% braindead linux variant for automotive aka car entertainment already does exactly that |
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| 17:18.00 | sxpert | well automotive devs are the worst ever |
| 17:18.15 | telst4r | Why run linux in a car in the 1st place? |
| 17:18.53 | DonkeyHotei | most cars run Windows Automotive |
| 17:19.10 | sxpert | telst4r: considering what tesla does with it, it's a good match |
| 17:19.24 | sxpert | DonkeyHotei: which regularly blue screens |
| 17:21.11 | telst4r | I'd hate to have a blue screen in the middle of a highway passing somebody.. |
| 17:21.46 | telst4r | "the driver has performed an illegal operation and will be terminated" |
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| 17:32.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | old joke modified: "you changed the setting of the mouse ^H steering wheel. Please restart the system to make the change take effect" |
| 17:35.20 | telst4r | That was pretty close to the reality back in the days :P |
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| 20:42.55 | buZz | i found a 'bug' :P |
| 20:43.15 | buZz | > sudo apt install screenfetch ; screenfetch |
| 20:43.25 | buZz | doesnt know what devuan is :P nor does it have a logo |
| 20:46.51 | gnarface | https://bugs.devuan.org/ |
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| 21:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like an upstream bug, tbh |
| 21:19.41 | golinux | Agreed |
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| 22:03.22 | *** join/#devuan underd0g (~underd0g@c82-214-98-47.loc.akton.net) |
| 22:05.28 | underd0g | hey guys |
| 22:05.44 | underd0g | anyone upgraded 1->2 ? |
| 22:07.39 | fsmithred | lots of upgrades from jessie to ascii have been done |
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| 22:09.20 | underd0g | it's seamless ? |
| 22:09.48 | underd0g | apt-get distupgrade , and off we go ? |
| 22:10.21 | fsmithred | https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/upgrade-to-ascii |
| 22:10.27 | fsmithred | yeah, pretty much |
| 22:11.01 | fsmithred | use deb.devuan.org not auto.mirror |
| 22:15.50 | Psud0nym | Is Beowulf usable? |
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| 22:16.31 | Psud0nym | I've heard of the mixed installs pulling the desktop in from beowulf. |
| 22:16.50 | fsmithred | desktop from beowulf is not ready |
| 22:17.04 | fsmithred | plain window manager or just console should mostly work |
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| 22:19.13 | fsmithred | you might need to pin some packages if you're using a desktop, and maybe even if you're not |
| 22:19.21 | Psud0nym | that's a shame. I was ready to drop it on a spare PC and see how well it shook down. |
| 22:19.38 | fsmithred | I did upgrade a no-dbus install to beowulf, and it went pretty well |
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| 22:20.11 | fsmithred | openbox with lxpanel |
| 22:20.16 | fsmithred | no display manager |
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| 22:21.28 | fsmithred | here's an account of an upgrade to beowulf: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2301 |
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| 22:23.07 | underd0g | fsmithred: I have ascii/ceres installed in a vm from ur live install |
| 22:23.20 | underd0g | is it egliable to be dd'ed to a hdd ? |
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| 22:25.08 | man_in_shack | stares at underd0g |
| 22:25.10 | man_in_shack | um |
| 22:25.31 | man_in_shack | biggest issue there is what format is your vm image? |
| 22:26.41 | underd0g | that's no issue |
| 22:26.54 | underd0g | I can comfortly dd any image |
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| 22:27.03 | underd0g | I convert it into raw |
| 22:27.18 | underd0g | that's how I usually do installs |
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| 22:27.41 | underd0g | so that I have the original state of the install safe on my main machine |
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| 22:36.40 | Psud0nym | underd0g: vm converted to raw then dd'ed to a bare metal drive? then add an entry to your bootloader? |
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| 22:37.34 | fsmithred | sounds like it would work. |
| 22:38.06 | fsmithred | underd0g, I thought you just wanted to go from jessie to ascii - that's safer |
| 22:38.22 | fsmithred | an old ascii/ceres mix could be messy |
| 22:38.34 | Psud0nym | fsmithred: pretty much what the live installer does, right? |
| 22:38.52 | fsmithred | live installer does rsync copy of the running live system |
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| 22:39.04 | fsmithred | with appropriate excludes |
| 22:39.20 | Psud0nym | I hadn't considered that approach. |
| 22:39.37 | underd0g | fsmithred: I just happen to have a spare drive |
| 22:39.46 | Psud0nym | of course I've been doing debian netinstall since etch was current. |
| 22:39.48 | underd0g | you know I do funny stuff to my disks |
| 22:39.59 | fsmithred | ok, then go wild |
| 22:40.28 | underd0g | Psud0nym: when dd'ed , no need to add anything to bootloader |
| 22:40.34 | fsmithred | I have a love/hate relationship with d-i |
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| 22:41.32 | fsmithred | time to make dinner - afk |
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| 22:42.58 | Psud0nym | a little trial and error with partition manager on d-i, and that's pretty much the extent of the difficulty for me. set a partition from the drive as my home directory, and once all the software is installed it works as usuall. |
| 22:43.35 | Psud0nym | saptech: everything working well, now? |
| 22:44.01 | saptech | yes, it's up and running |
| 22:44.23 | Psud0nym | are you on ascii now? |
| 22:44.32 | saptech | I ran into one snag during boot up |
| 22:44.38 | saptech | yes ascii |
| 22:44.58 | saptech | which display manager is it using by default? |
| 22:45.13 | saptech | running xfce3 |
| 22:45.14 | Psud0nym | lightdm, I believe. |
| 22:46.04 | saptech | well, after booting, I pressed F1 for session and it locked the system. only way out was to reboot |
| 22:46.21 | Psud0nym | the release notes said that there are 2 display managers that work for xfce. |
| 22:46.36 | saptech | if I don't press F1 and just type username/password it's okay |
| 22:46.59 | saptech | right now everything is whatever is installed by default |
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| 22:47.24 | Psud0nym | are you looking to change to another display manager? |
| 22:47.44 | saptech | yes, I prefer lxdm, is it available? |
| 22:48.11 | Psud0nym | I will look. packages.devuan.org |
| 22:48.36 | man_in_shack | wat |
| 22:48.40 | man_in_shack | xfce3? |
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| 22:49.48 | saptech | heh, I meant xfce2 |
| 22:49.59 | saptech | old eyes |
| 22:50.04 | Psud0nym | man_in_shack: he means 4... |
| 22:50.06 | man_in_shack | old xfce too (: |
| 22:50.24 | saptech | well, yes 4 not 2 or 3...lol |
| 22:50.32 | man_in_shack | or 5 |
| 22:50.45 | saptech | xfce is old? |
| 22:50.55 | man_in_shack | xfce3 is old |
| 22:51.02 | Psud0nym | yes. xfce has had some staying power. |
| 22:51.22 | Psud0nym | currently released as 4.12.x |
| 22:51.23 | man_in_shack | yah |
| 22:51.41 | saptech | it's okay. I haven't used it in a while |
| 22:51.42 | NewGnuGuy | o/ |
| 22:51.48 | man_in_shack | i switched to xfce ... would have been about 12 years ago i think :| |
| 22:52.09 | man_in_shack | when did 4.0 come out? |
| 22:52.45 | Psud0nym | I really liked kde3, but my first desktop what kde2 build by hand on redhat 3.2 |
| 22:52.53 | man_in_shack | wow, 2003 |
| 22:53.36 | saptech | I had to build kde1 or 2 around 2000 |
| 22:53.46 | Psud0nym | back then I just couldn't figure out how to use the installer for debian, and knew nothing about testing. |
| 22:53.50 | saptech | I was running Caldera linux |
| 22:54.12 | Psud0nym | same here. after giving up on rpm dependency hell. |
| 22:54.31 | man_in_shack | so yeah, i officially switched to xfce probably 12-13 years ago |
| 22:54.51 | underd0g | I was on gnome for years |
| 22:54.58 | man_in_shack | i know i trialed v3.8, and switched completely when v4.2 was current |
| 22:55.25 | man_in_shack | before that, i'd been using gnome |
| 22:55.34 | man_in_shack | when gnome2 hit, i was pissed :P |
| 22:55.34 | underd0g | but gnome became such a hell |
| 22:55.46 | underd0g | I could never go back to it |
| 22:56.06 | Psud0nym | I remember gnome before they lost their minds. and Caldera lost theirs before that. |
| 22:56.18 | man_in_shack | oh wait |
| 22:57.01 | Psud0nym | Mandrake/pclinux os was were I went to from there. |
| 22:57.26 | man_in_shack | would have been gnome2.10 or 2.12 i got pissed with |
| 22:57.48 | man_in_shack | but i do know i was a late adopter to gnome2. gnome1 did the job |
| 22:57.57 | man_in_shack | then gnome2 started getting clunky and slow |
| 22:58.04 | man_in_shack | which was why i never liked kde |
| 22:58.21 | man_in_shack | also fuck arts sound server |
| 22:59.51 | Psud0nym | well, I didn't really know what I was doing when I used KDE. I looked pretty and I used to spend hours tweaking how it looked. |
| 23:00.14 | Psud0nym | it looked pretty* |
| 23:02.18 | Psud0nym | lately I've been pretty impressed with the minimalist approach (like Suckless.org) |
| 23:02.37 | saptech | I ended up going with Slackware & Debian and using Gnome 2 |
| 23:03.07 | saptech | I have a hard time finding my way around kde/plasma |
| 23:03.29 | saptech | plus it installs too much stuff I don't want/need |
| 23:03.46 | Psud0nym | I started using ubuntu around 2005, and switched to Etch about 2007. |
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| 23:04.42 | Psud0nym | yeah. the basics for the later releases and then cherry pick my tools from there. Mostly I will use cinnamon or lxqt these days. |
| 23:04.53 | saptech | somewhere along the timeline, I wanted to try Mandrake and dual boot it with Win98. Well not knowing what I was doing, mandrake wiped the hdd and it was the only OS left standing. that is when I went with Linux only |
| 23:05.29 | saptech | and back to kde, which wasn't bad with mandrake |
| 23:05.48 | holla | saptech: lucky you - usally it's the other way round ;) |
| 23:05.58 | Psud0nym | agreed. pclinuxos used that too. Texstar was a Mandrake developer. |
| 23:06.15 | saptech | lol |
| 23:06.32 | man_in_shack | mandrake was the first distro i tried back in 2002 |
| 23:06.40 | man_in_shack | then debian in 2003 |
| 23:07.00 | saptech | I decided to stick with mandrake, mandriva and now run mageia as my main distro |
| 23:07.07 | man_in_shack | debian was so much easier to configure, and to install lib-dev packages for compiling stuff |
| 23:07.33 | saptech | yes, debian actually was easy to use then some of the so called easy distros |
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| 23:07.37 | man_in_shack | and there was no dependency calculation in rpm at the time |
| 23:07.41 | Psud0nym | mandrake arose as a redhat spin with KDE. there was some license issue ( |
| 23:08.11 | man_in_shack | debian's sysvinit made so much more sense than rh/mandrake sysvinit |
| 23:08.21 | gnarface | ponders what to do when this ancient e17 build stops working |
| 23:08.34 | man_in_shack | gnarface: build a new one that starts working again? |
| 23:09.01 | gnarface | sure, in theory... |
| 23:09.12 | gnarface | in practice that's not always so easy |
| 23:09.34 | Psud0nym | gnarface: ...could package a new build |
| 23:10.05 | gnarface | i should try it but i suspect there's a reason why nobody else has already, and that if it's beyond their reach then it definitely is beyond mine too |
| 23:10.38 | man_in_shack | yah, enlightenment is a nice wm but the code is a massive clusterfuck |
| 23:10.40 | Psud0nym | I can take acrack at i. what sources are you using? |
| 23:12.11 | gnarface | Psud0nym: i was using the source package from ceres, but i think it's recently been redirected to an empty e22 directory |
| 23:12.50 | gnarface | so you might have to dig it up from debian snapshots or something |
| 23:13.26 | gnarface | you should probably grab all the efl libs from the same snapshot, too |
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| 23:13.42 | Psud0nym | on debian? |
| 23:13.44 | gnarface | yea |
| 23:14.02 | gnarface | yea from debian sid i guess |
| 23:14.11 | Psud0nym | I'll see what I can do. |
| 23:14.34 | gnarface | don't lose sleep over it |
| 23:15.25 | Psud0nym | yeah. that's not happening. |
| 23:15.29 | man_in_shack | sleeps on openrc |
| 23:15.47 | Psud0nym | any particular year for the snapshot you prefer? |
| 23:16.04 | Psud0nym | I'm looknig at snapshot.debian.org |
| 23:16.31 | Psud0nym | it goes back to 2005. |
| 23:16.40 | gnarface | nah no particular year. just try to find the most recent version of the code that was pushed into sid |
| 23:16.52 | gnarface | hmm |
| 23:17.06 | gnarface | or rather, the most recent version that was successfully built into binaries that were pushed into sid, i should say |
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| 23:17.32 | gnarface | i'm showing 0.17.6-1.1+b1 here |
| 23:17.48 | gnarface | something in the 0.17.6 should be fine |
| 23:18.05 | saptech | Psud0nym, slim is the default with xfce. Is it okay to switch to lxdm? I can't find anything |
| 23:18.35 | Psud0nym | ok... I'm going to try building them without changes on ceres, but I could try updating from a git repo or the like |
| 23:18.49 | Psud0nym | saptech: sorry, I got sidetracked. |
| 23:19.02 | man_in_shack | i use lightdm with xfce |
| 23:19.31 | man_in_shack | basically, the login/desktop manager shouldn't affect your window manager/desktop environment |
| 23:19.39 | Psud0nym | saptech: any of them is supposed to be agnostic and just call your .xinitrc |
| 23:19.44 | man_in_shack | this ain't gnome :D |
| 23:20.28 | man_in_shack | lightdm's power menu (shutdown/reboot/hibernate) doesn't work with elogind. seems to require consolekit instead |
| 23:20.42 | man_in_shack | apart from that, components should all be interchangeable |
| 23:20.58 | man_in_shack | has never used lxdm, and didn't like slim |
| 23:20.59 | Psud0nym | that's it. console kit isn't playing nice, I think. |
| 23:21.10 | Psud0nym | I think that's what the release notes said. |
| 23:21.14 | man_in_shack | yah |
| 23:21.50 | saptech | I don't think slim have a switch user feature. that is why I like lxdm |
| 23:22.14 | Psud0nym | man_in_shack: thx for the backup. I'm kind of recalling from when I was half awake reading the notes. |
| 23:23.03 | man_in_shack | slim doesn't have autologin either |
| 23:23.36 | golinux | <Psud0nym> saptech: any of them is supposed to be agnostic and just call your .xinitrc |
| 23:24.04 | *** join/#devuan Bobbydigital (~Bobbydigi@187.148.154.164) |
| 23:24.04 | golinux | Remember that in ascii , different dm's require differen't backends. Some conflict |
| 23:24.05 | saptech | ok |
| 23:24.41 | golinux | Read the release notes |
| 23:25.22 | Psud0nym | golinux: I read the notes, but didn't recall the exact details. It's not even all that long a read. |
| 23:25.34 | Psud0nym | curse my brain! |
| 23:26.08 | man_in_shack | release notes suggest elogind for lightdm though |
| 23:26.10 | man_in_shack | sooooo ... |
| 23:27.25 | man_in_shack | i'm gonna write my own /sbin/init, with blackjack, and hookers |
| 23:28.09 | Psud0nym | man_in_shack: maybe a 12 step theme? |
| 23:30.49 | man_in_shack | is that an alcoholics anonymous reference? |
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| 23:32.16 | Psud0nym | gnarface: take a look at the versions listed at snapshot. http://snapshot.debian.org/package/e17/ |
| 23:33.54 | gnarface | Psud0nym: looks like it's this one for sure: http://snapshot.debian.org/package/e17/0.17.6-1.1/ |
| 23:34.22 | gnarface | 2 years old sounds about right |
| 23:35.03 | gnarface | yea and then it has become populated with e21-22 after that... sneaky |
| 23:35.11 | gnarface | but it doesn't even work so |
| 23:35.24 | gnarface | or anyway the package doesn't work |
| 23:37.07 | Psud0nym | ok. I'll pull sources and relevent stuff for this and see what we can do |
| 23:37.33 | gnarface | cool, thanks! |
| 23:38.02 | gnarface | uh... i just had deja-vu. we may have been through this before once already |
| 23:40.44 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
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| 23:42.41 | Psud0nym | It's saptech with the issue, unless your asking for another reason |
| 23:43.07 | fsmithred | no, I just got back from the kitchen |
| 23:43.16 | fsmithred | so I might not know what's going on |
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| 23:43.54 | fsmithred | oh, I just read the important part |
| 23:43.56 | Psud0nym | gnarface: looks good so far. installing build-dep from ascii seems to be going well. |
| 23:44.11 | fsmithred | and he's gone |
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| 23:44.47 | Psud0nym | fsmithred: maybe he's trying to switch display manager |
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| 23:45.20 | fsmithred | FTR, lxdm works with xfce with elogind and libpam-elogind |
| 23:45.55 | Psud0nym | fsmithred: good to know. |
| 23:46.14 | fsmithred | latest Refracta isos use that. I chose it because the language switcher works |
| 23:47.50 | Psud0nym | gnarface: ok have the package building. |
| 23:50.30 | Psud0nym | man_in_shack: yeah, it was. but still a joke. |
| 23:51.07 | man_in_shack | yah well, alcoholics anonymous is all about giving yourself up to a higher power |
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| 23:51.21 | man_in_shack | so it's basically the systemd of rehab |
| 23:51.25 | djph | like systemd |
| 23:51.29 | djph | bahahhaaha |
| 23:51.34 | Psud0nym | lol |
| 23:51.40 | man_in_shack | (: |
| 23:53.17 | Psud0nym | gnarface: are you wanting a later build that what's already in ascii? |
| 23:54.02 | Psud0nym | cause the one in the repo just built like a champ. |
| 23:55.47 | gnarface | Psud0nym: is it the same version as in sid? |
| 23:56.04 | Psud0nym | e17_0.17.6-1.1.dsc |
| 23:56.12 | gnarface | hmm, maybe they fixed it, i can try it again... |
| 23:56.18 | gnarface | thanks for checking that for me |
| 23:56.20 | fsmithred | 0.22.4-1 in sid |
| 23:56.32 | Psud0nym | I can try that one too. |
| 23:57.15 | Psud0nym | http://snapshot.debian.org/package/e17/0.22.4-1/ lookcorrect? |
| 23:57.25 | Psud0nym | that's a yes |
| 23:59.09 | fsmithred | yeah, looks right |
| 23:59.34 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 23:59.38 | fsmithred | that version is in beowulf, too |
| 23:59.43 | gnarface | but that's e22 |
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| 23:59.49 | gnarface | it shouldn't even be in the e17 package |