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| 01:47.45 | drwhite | Hi folks. |
| 01:47.59 | drwhite | Is Devuan ASCII going to be using SystemD now? |
| 01:48.39 | gnarface | no |
| 01:49.43 | drwhite | I found an article that says that scertain systemd things aren't being removed |
| 01:49.54 | drwhite | That is why I am asking |
| 01:50.17 | drwhite | What's the virtualisation capabilities of Devuan? |
| 01:50.33 | drwhite | Does it handle QEMU and KVM and XEN easily enough? |
| 01:51.26 | gnarface | shouldn't be different from debian in that regard |
| 01:51.41 | gnarface | the stuff that hasn't been removed is primarily just libsystemd |
| 01:51.55 | drwhite | anything to do with SystemD is removed? |
| 01:52.18 | gnarface | just systemd itself and the handful of things that couldn't be compiled to not require it |
| 01:52.35 | drwhite | good to know |
| 01:52.39 | gnarface | that doesn't mean an intent to re-add systemd later. whoever tried to give you that impression has misled you on purpose. |
| 01:52.49 | drwhite | Do you know if there will be a Devuan ARM version? |
| 01:52.56 | gnarface | there's already an arm version |
| 01:53.05 | gnarface | there's several in fact |
| 01:53.10 | drwhite | No, not that systemD was being added back in persae.. |
| 01:53.18 | drwhite | https://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/433159/what-are-the-main-differences-between-devuan-distros-and-their-debian-base/433346 |
| 01:53.25 | drwhite | That's where I read about things. |
| 01:54.01 | drwhite | The responder said that systemd things were removed, but that is being rolled back now. |
| 01:54.33 | gnarface | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 01:54.36 | gnarface | these packages have been removed |
| 01:55.02 | gnarface | for no reason other than that they either ARE systemd or would have required massive recoding to remove it as a permanent requirement |
| 01:55.09 | drwhite | Good list to have, thanks |
| 01:55.29 | drwhite | well SystemD is a bad thing to have. |
| 01:55.57 | drwhite | So other than removal of SystemD, it should still be perfect for servers and desktops and virtualised platforms? |
| 01:55.59 | gnarface | it's not a very big list. most stuff hasn't been touched, but a lot of stuff that has been migrated from lm-sensors/acpid to systemd has suffered regression with regard to sensors and sleep/hibernation states |
| 01:56.36 | gnarface | it's been a drop-in replacement for debian everywhere i've used it, anyway. |
| 01:56.36 | drwhite | I don't use sleep/hybernation states. I'm not using Windows. lol |
| 01:56.57 | gnarface | it should be fine for desktops unless you really like gnome |
| 01:57.01 | drwhite | I'm a hoster, developer, coder, and more. |
| 01:57.05 | drwhite | I hate gnome 3. |
| 01:57.12 | drwhite | and KDE |
| 01:57.25 | drwhite | They have become so cumbersome in there recent iterations |
| 01:57.35 | drwhite | Personally I use xFCE |
| 01:57.44 | drwhite | Clean, Lightweight, fast. |
| 01:57.59 | drwhite | If I want a prettier interface, I'll use MATE |
| 01:58.12 | drwhite | And Devuan has both of those |
| 01:58.18 | drwhite | So I'm happy with that. |
| 01:58.29 | drwhite | So ASCII is what version of Debian? |
| 02:02.46 | gnarface | it corresponds to debian stretch |
| 02:02.59 | gnarface | and xfce is the default desktop |
| 02:03.55 | drwhite | Are there actual repositories for Devuan itself for specific things related to it? |
| 02:04.05 | drwhite | Or does it primarily use the Debian Repos? |
| 02:04.08 | DonkeyHotei | it's nice that it can be a drop-in replacement for debian, but what i'd like is a similar migration path from *buntu |
| 02:04.33 | drwhite | They are Debian based. |
| 02:04.40 | drwhite | *buntu is isn't it? |
| 02:05.16 | gnarface | drwhite: there are actual repositories, but they only hold packages that were actually changed. the vast majority of packages didn't even need to be rebuilt, so they're dynamically pulled directly from debian's repos unchanged. |
| 02:05.49 | gnarface | drwhite: if you want to know how that works i think you want to look into amprolla3 |
| 02:05.51 | DonkeyHotei | ubuntu was designed to be "source-compatible" with debian, so that the same package sources can be used but build to different .deb's with different dependencies due to the shlibs line |
| 02:05.54 | drwhite | Is it possible that the Devuan Repositories could become completely separate over time? |
| 02:06.16 | drwhite | DonkeyHotei: Ahh, makes sense then. Thanks for that info. :) |
| 02:06.16 | gnarface | drwhite: possible. maybe inevitable. hopefully not. |
| 02:07.07 | DonkeyHotei | [Wed 2018-09-05 07:05:16 PM PDT] <gnarface> drwhite: there are actual repositories, but they only hold packages that were actually changed. the vast majority of packages didn't even need to be rebuilt, so they're dynamically pulled directly from debian's repos unchanged. <----- any chance a similar thing could be separately done with ubuntu's repos also? |
| 02:07.24 | drwhite | gnarface: I hope it does happen. Would be nice to have it away from main stream for most of things. A lot of the time they may lose all interest in the source for the older versions, and so keeping the earlier versions of Devuan updated would be beneficial if they old repos vanish. |
| 02:07.36 | gnarface | DonkeyHotei: afaik the only reason ubuntu doesn't do that is because they've rebuilt ALL the packages to newer dependencies |
| 02:08.00 | DonkeyHotei | doesn't do what? |
| 02:08.09 | gnarface | DonkeyHotei: sometimes they even use beta dependencies. they're a bit reckless about it |
| 02:08.38 | drwhite | Is there a large performance increase from Devuan 1 to 2? |
| 02:08.39 | gnarface | DonkeyHotei: what == doesn't pull debian packages dynamically, as you had just asked |
| 02:09.19 | gnarface | drwhite: that would be a hardware specific issue. in most cases probably no change whatsoever. |
| 02:09.27 | DonkeyHotei | unlike debian, ubuntu relies on source-only uploads, built automatically for the repos |
| 02:10.09 | gnarface | they're also commercially funded, so they don't have to sweat the build times |
| 02:10.19 | DonkeyHotei | right |
| 02:10.59 | DonkeyHotei | via launchpad, they also do such builds for third parties |
| 02:10.59 | drwhite | gnarface: Will Devuan address the performance issues in the future? |
| 02:11.35 | gnarface | drwhite: if you have newer hardware, you might see improvements from the newer kernel. you shouldn't be seeing any drop whatsoever in performance from debian in either case |
| 02:11.46 | gnarface | drwhite: the kernels are the same exact kernel |
| 02:11.56 | gnarface | there's literally no difference in kernel-level hardware support |
| 02:12.09 | drwhite | Does Devuan 2 use Nautilus or Thunar or something else? |
| 02:12.31 | gnarface | uh, i don't know that. i don't use the default install anywhere |
| 02:12.42 | gnarface | probably whatever xfce usually uses? |
| 02:13.06 | drwhite | xfce can use any of them. |
| 02:13.18 | drwhite | so probably thunar |
| 02:13.35 | drwhite | Has the package installation been upgraded in 2? |
| 02:13.58 | drwhite | I know that the normal Debian package selector is quite basic and does not allow much customisation. |
| 02:14.17 | gnarface | none of that has been changed from debian |
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| 02:14.44 | gnarface | it's all identical |
| 02:14.53 | gnarface | by "normal" package selector you mean synaptic? |
| 02:15.27 | gnarface | there are alternatives that give more control. you can try aptitude and apt-get |
| 02:15.38 | gnarface | again, none of that is different from debian |
| 02:16.26 | gnarface | it's so much like debian that i've had less trouble upgrading old wheezy systems to devuan jessie than to debian jessie |
| 02:18.09 | fsmithred | devuan jessie is more like debian than debian jessie is/was |
| 02:18.38 | drwhite | lol |
| 02:18.46 | DonkeyHotei | fewer install arch'es though |
| 02:19.06 | gnarface | that's a hardware issue |
| 02:19.14 | gnarface | ppc32 and sparc are hard to come by |
| 02:19.29 | DonkeyHotei | ppc32 is not *that* rare |
| 02:20.17 | gnarface | i have some but i admit i can't boot it right now |
| 02:21.01 | gnarface | due to a failure of the power supply and battery at the same time i now have a catch-22 problem where i need a fresh battery to sync the replacement power supply but no way to charge a battery without syncing it first |
| 02:21.44 | gnarface | apple doesn't replace any of this stuff anymore either, so it's strictly used or aftermarket parts... |
| 02:22.12 | DonkeyHotei | "sync" a power supply? |
| 02:22.17 | gnarface | if you actually have some laying around you want to get rid of and you're in europe you might want to talk to someone about taking it off your hands... |
| 02:22.26 | DonkeyHotei | i'm not in europe |
| 02:22.35 | gnarface | yea, "sync" as in the later model power supplies are too smart for their own good |
| 02:22.56 | gnarface | they don't work if you have lost power completely |
| 02:23.10 | gnarface | which tends to happen if you let the thing sit on the shelf for too many years unused |
| 02:23.34 | DonkeyHotei | batteries, you mean |
| 02:23.49 | gnarface | yea |
| 02:24.01 | DonkeyHotei | not power supplies |
| 02:24.24 | gnarface | you're understanding what i'm saying but you're having trouble believing it, so you're thinking you're misunderstanding what i'm saying |
| 02:25.34 | DonkeyHotei | the ibook/powerbook power supplies (chargers) were not complicated |
| 02:25.47 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:26.07 | gnarface | it's just not obvious if the model of power supply you have defaults to the right voltage/amperage/whatever for the model powerbook you have |
| 02:26.33 | gnarface | but if you're replacing a older model powerbook's dead power supply with a "smart" newer model, it needs to have some charge left in the battery before it can "adjust" itself |
| 02:27.08 | gnarface | so if you have TWO dead batteries you can't do this initial sync |
| 02:27.25 | gnarface | and the light on the power plug will never turn the right color |
| 02:27.42 | DonkeyHotei | there was no light on the power plugs |
| 02:28.29 | DonkeyHotei | that's something that was introduced after the switch to intel |
| 02:28.39 | gnarface | correct. you're right. there was no light on the earliest models, but if that burns out (mine was actually recalled, THEN burned out because i didn't send it back) you're stuck with using a newer lit model even on the old powerbook. |
| 02:28.59 | gnarface | you can verify this information independently by calling apple right now. |
| 02:29.11 | gnarface | you don't have to take my word for it |
| 02:29.21 | gnarface | try to buy a power block for a laptop without a light on it |
| 02:29.35 | DonkeyHotei | kensington |
| 02:29.44 | gnarface | that's aftermarket |
| 02:29.52 | gnarface | plus they'll still suffer from the same sync problem i think |
| 02:30.31 | gnarface | they don't make first-party batteries anymore though at all for this model, so i am stuck replacing that with something aftermarket and i can't decide what to trust... |
| 02:31.12 | gnarface | anyway, if you have 32-bit ppc build hardware laying around in better shape you should consider donating it |
| 02:31.23 | gnarface | same goes for sparc |
| 02:31.33 | DonkeyHotei | i don't have any sparc |
| 02:32.01 | DonkeyHotei | i have a partly operational hppa box |
| 03:09.24 | drwhite | gnarface: you ever installed Devuan onto ARM? |
| 03:12.01 | drwhite | Is Cinnamon better than Xfce? |
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| 03:12.38 | DonkeyHotei | i'd want MATE most likely |
| 03:16.48 | drwhite | Why? |
| 03:18.58 | golinux | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_ascii/embedded/ |
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| 04:49.38 | ryanpcmcquen | Anyone know how to get `add-apt-repository` to map Debian repos to equivalent Devuan releases? |
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| 05:00.00 | golinux | ryanpcmcquen: I not totally understanding your question. |
| 05:01.55 | ryanpcmcquen | golinux: If you install `software-properties-common` in Devuan, then you could run `sudo add-apt-repository ppa:webupd8team/java`, to get the Java PPA on Devuan. The only problem is that it only has sources pointing to Debian and Ubuntu releases. |
| 05:02.07 | golinux | Most of Devuan is pulled by amprolla3 redirects from the debian repos |
| 05:02.09 | ryanpcmcquen | So I need a way to map `debian/stretch` to `devuan/ascii`. |
| 05:02.42 | golinux | Read above. |
| 05:03.19 | golinux | Never use debian repos directly and never use ubuntu stuff. |
| 05:04.06 | golinux | Well do if you want to chance breaking your system ;) |
| 05:04.35 | golinux | https://pkginfo.devuan.org/ |
| 05:05.32 | ryanpcmcquen | Thanks, but that isn't really an answer. |
| 05:05.39 | ryanpcmcquen | I can probably hack the Python to do what I want. |
| 05:07.39 | golinux | Can't you just edit your sources.list? |
| 05:08.29 | golinux | To add that repo? |
| 05:08.41 | golinux | You get to keep the pieces too! |
| 05:09.06 | golinux | Or it might be just fine. |
| 05:09.19 | golinux | You'll find out soon enough. |
| 05:09.46 | ryanpcmcquen | Yeah, I was just hoping for a more automated way, but obviously that is probably the fastest workaround for one PPA. |
| 05:09.53 | golinux | Sorry I can't be more help. |
| 05:10.31 | ryanpcmcquen | Thanks for replying! |
| 05:11.36 | furrymcgee | Can you pin packages to use only devuan repository? Is it possible to use other repos for some exceptions only? |
| 05:12.32 | furrymcgee | I think apt can do this |
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| 16:44.31 | Digit | facepalms, wishing he'd checked more closely what was being updated, having his firefox jump to "quantum", 60 as esr, rather than 52 |
| 16:45.42 | nemo | mm |
| 16:46.12 | nemo | Digit: so long as your profile isn't completely screwed up now, you can still download the old 52 and keep it around locally |
| 16:46.16 | nemo | and then disable updates |
| 16:46.23 | nemo | it's a risk ofc, even with noscript etc |
| 16:46.39 | nemo | I do wish panorama view was less buggy in web extensions |
| 16:46.45 | Digit | yep. thinking that's might be what the rest of my day will be spent fiddling with. :/ |
| 16:47.06 | nemo | and that there was an alternative to firecookie, and that self-destructing cookies + localstorage bug still wasn't pending |
| 16:47.19 | furrywolf | I'm still using 44... I won't use any version that requires extension signing, ever, for any reason. and working audio is nice too. |
| 16:48.25 | furrywolf | extension signing should be removed as anti-freedom. |
| 16:48.28 | nemo | furrywolf: pulseaudio is being stripped ou |
| 16:48.30 | nemo | *out |
| 16:48.45 | nemo | extension signing was still optional in the ESR prior to 60 |
| 16:49.02 | nemo | and AFAIK will always be optional in nightly, even if that's not a huge benefit to most |
| 16:49.10 | nemo | wonder if debian would maintain packages with out |
| 16:49.14 | nemo | *it |
| 16:49.15 | furrywolf | that it exists is bad enough. |
| 16:49.34 | furrywolf | so the devuan firefox package has working audio now? |
| 16:49.39 | KatolaZ | Digit: where did you get firefox 60? |
| 16:50.24 | Digit | tis just whatever devuan spat at me from a dist upgrade. i've got ceres repo included. |
| 16:50.43 | KatolaZ | oh |
| 16:50.46 | Digit | 60.1.0esr3 |
| 16:51.04 | KatolaZ | just downgrade |
| 16:51.23 | furrywolf | imagine if, say, microsoft said you were only allowed to install microsoft-signed applications on your pc. everyone would be up in arms. so why the hell do people just roll over when mozilla says you're only allowed to install mozilla-signed extensions on your browser? |
| 16:51.28 | KatolaZ | and pin it |
| 16:51.47 | Digit | KatolaZ: how would you suggest i do that? (never downgraded before... didnt know i could) |
| 16:52.00 | KatolaZ | apt-get install firefox-esr=VERSION |
| 16:52.12 | furrywolf | no company should be allowed to choose what other software you're allowed to use |
| 16:52.31 | KatolaZ | you should see all the versions available with: apt-cache policy firefox-esr |
| 16:52.58 | nemo | furrywolf: well. MS does in fact require that on their ARM windows |
| 16:53.10 | KatolaZ | if you have beowulf or ascii in sources.list, you will see firefox 52 as well |
| 16:53.12 | furrywolf | and everyone agrees it's wrong. |
| 16:53.25 | nemo | then there's what google did with chromebooks |
| 16:53.34 | nemo | which are oddly incredibly popular |
| 16:53.41 | nemo | my daughter's school switched entirely to them |
| 16:53.58 | furrywolf | by "switched", you mean "were given"? heh |
| 16:53.58 | nemo | ton of FOSS folks I know seem fans - I guess 'cause the only other thing in that category is the pinebook |
| 16:54.02 | furrywolf | that's why they're so popular... |
| 16:54.02 | nemo | furrywolf: yeah probably |
| 16:54.17 | nemo | IMO that should be some sort of ethical violation on part of a public school |
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| 16:54.29 | nemo | giving every single child a tracking device like that |
| 16:54.35 | furrywolf | nothing new... same reason schools had so many apple IIs. heh. |
| 16:54.37 | Digit | thnx KatolaZ. trying to sear that into my brain now. :) |
| 16:54.53 | nemo | furrywolf: yeah, but at least apple isn't in business of selling access to your entire life |
| 16:55.07 | nemo | furrywolf: can't even use a chromebook without a google account |
| 16:55.13 | nemo | so I assume each kid has one |
| 16:56.01 | furrywolf | so is devuan packaging firefox now, or just using debian's? |
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| 16:56.13 | KatolaZ | furrywolf: it's still debian's |
| 16:56.29 | furrywolf | and it has pulse stripped? that's... surprising. |
| 16:56.35 | nemo | https://github.com/5digits/dactyl/wiki/Disable-extension-signing-requirement-in-Firefox-49-or-later interesting |
| 16:56.39 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 16:56.39 | nemo | furrywolf: well. rewritten in rust |
| 16:56.45 | nemo | furrywolf: I have to see what backends it supports |
| 16:57.03 | furrywolf | <nemo:#devuan> furrywolf: pulseaudio is being stripped ou |
| 16:57.07 | furrywolf | heh |
| 16:57.52 | nemo | furrywolf: I meant the actual pulseaudio lib |
| 16:58.01 | nemo | furrywolf: they are still API compliant |
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| 17:00.02 | nemo | furrywolf: looks like cubeb has ALSA support now, instead of having to use the ALSA-pulse bridge |
| 17:00.33 | nemo | furrywolf: https://github.com/kinetiknz/cubeb/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+ALSA seems there are still some bugs |
| 17:00.44 | nemo | furrywolf: YMMV although you could use ALSA w/ the pulse API if it's a problem |
| 17:00.51 | nemo | furrywolf: anyway, it's not a part of FF anymore |
| 17:02.41 | Digit | ouch. downgraded, but many things are still broken going back. *sigh* |
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| 17:03.40 | nemo | Digit: yeah. that happened to me too |
| 17:03.46 | nemo | Digit: thankfully, not on the profile I really cared about |
| 17:03.51 | nemo | Digit: the one at home I had backed up |
| 17:04.18 | nemo | still not sure what I'm going to do to that one. I mostly just want panorama view to work well. the other irritations I can handle |
| 17:04.25 | nemo | so for now stuck on 52 |
| 17:04.45 | Digit | times like this, i crave uzbl again. pity the grass isnt /really/ greener over there. as many (or more) pains there. |
| 17:05.45 | fsmithred | mozilla says that pulseaudio is recommended for ff 62 (along with gnome, dbus and network-manager) |
| 17:05.54 | Digit | the horror |
| 17:05.55 | KatolaZ | Digit: "many things are still broken" is not very useful |
| 17:06.08 | furrywolf | has no idea what panorama view is |
| 17:06.15 | fsmithred | does that mean it's recommended for those who want sound? Or will it work with alsa? |
| 17:07.03 | golinux | apulse |
| 17:07.10 | Digit | KatolaZ: lots of addons to wrestle, for styles, for proxy. stuff like that. i'm still working through it. wondering if some quantum guff is gonna linger making life hard. |
| 17:07.26 | nemo | fsmithred: recommended does not surprise me, but it does seem to work |
| 17:07.36 | golinux | Isn't making life hard FF's prime directive? |
| 17:07.43 | Digit | just moaning in exhasperation |
| 17:07.45 | nemo | fsmithred: at least according to the fact it is in cubeb, and bug comments on mozilla's bugzilla from a year ago |
| 17:07.48 | KatolaZ | ok Digit |
| 17:07.50 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 17:07.56 | KatolaZ | thought you were asking for help |
| 17:08.04 | fsmithred | nemo, you haven't actually tried it? |
| 17:08.06 | Digit | nopes, you've already helped. now it's up to me. |
| 17:08.20 | nemo | fsmithred: no. TBH, I don't care that much about pulseaudio's existence or otherwise. |
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| 17:08.32 | nemo | fsmithred: that said, I *am* using devuan + firefox |
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| 17:08.47 | nemo | but. I don't know if I actually tried using firefox for anything audio on that machine |
| 17:08.50 | nemo | hm |
| 17:09.23 | nemo | fsmithred: I do disable pulseaudio on my gentoo machine in my general "ban everything by poettering" rule, but on that machine it doesn't really matter |
| 17:10.05 | nemo | fsmithred: last comment from a year ago was reporting a crash https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1221579 |
| 17:10.15 | nemo | but upstream is active so who knows |
| 17:10.16 | fsmithred | I don't want to test it right now. I'm away from home with one laptop, and last time I tried a new version of ff, I had trouble reverting to ff-esr. All my addons had to be added on again |
| 17:10.26 | nemo | fsmithred: use a separate profile |
| 17:10.38 | nemo | download firefox nightly to ~/firefox-nightly or something |
| 17:10.46 | fsmithred | oh, that's an idea - I can make a new user |
| 17:10.46 | nemo | then ~/firefox-nightly/firefox -no-remote -P |
| 17:10.50 | nemo | not even new user |
| 17:10.53 | nemo | just new profile |
| 17:11.00 | nemo | I have default, test, and deleteme |
| 17:11.10 | nemo | deleteme is deleted periodically for clean test purposes ⺠|
| 17:14.25 | furrywolf | https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1467882 I hate mozilla more by the day. their library has no ability to notify the browser of mixer control changes. This is, of course, a basic ALSA feature. So, instead, they're going to fucking softvol all audio out from the browser? what possible brain damage would cause someone to think this is the right approach? oh yeah, pulse users... |
| 17:14.53 | furrywolf | cubeb is apparantly shit, of course. |
| 17:16.27 | furrywolf | let's have the browser volume completely independent of the system volume, so when it's too quiet, you have two places you have to change. |
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| 18:01.58 | SueGoogle | waterfox |
| 18:02.16 | MinceR | qutebrowser |
| 18:02.48 | fsmithred | ncsa mosaic |
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| 18:04.35 | KatolaZ | surf2 |
| 18:04.37 | KatolaZ | or lynx |
| 18:05.00 | SueGoogle | seamonkey |
| 18:05.24 | KatolaZ | or links2 |
| 18:05.29 | SueGoogle | elinks |
| 18:07.06 | MinceR | chromium |
| 18:07.14 | SueGoogle | opera |
| 18:07.15 | MinceR | linkx |
| 18:07.32 | KatolaZ | linkx? |
| 18:07.41 | KatolaZ | haven't seen it |
| 18:08.05 | MinceR | it's a links2 fork with tab support |
| 18:08.11 | MinceR | and iirc also a forward button in the menu area |
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| 18:11.26 | KatolaZ | well you don't need tabs with tabbed |
| 18:11.45 | MinceR | i prefer to have them, though |
| 18:13.21 | KatolaZ | you can have them with tabbed |
| 18:13.43 | KatolaZ | and don't need the facility to be provided by your application |
| 18:14.43 | KatolaZ | https://tools.suckless.org/tabbed/ <- MinceR |
| 18:16.54 | KatolaZ | MinceR: can't find linkx |
| 18:17.11 | KatolaZ | oh there you go |
| 18:17.27 | KatolaZ | https://sourceforge.net/projects/linkx/ |
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| 18:17.47 | KatolaZ | but there are no files |
| 18:21.51 | MinceR | also http://linkx.sourceforge.net/ |
| 18:21.58 | MinceR | files are in cvs |
| 18:22.39 | KatolaZ | oki |
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| 18:53.32 | tse | goo |
| 18:53.40 | tse | wrong window |
| 18:54.43 | SueGoogle | infowars.com |
| 18:54.45 | SueGoogle | wrong window |
| 18:55.03 | MinceR | dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/sda bs=1M |
| 18:55.04 | MinceR | wrong window |
| 18:55.35 | SueGoogle | of=/dev/ROOT |
| 18:56.40 | SueGoogle | lol, good times |
| 18:57.54 | gnarface | don't do bs=1M on writes |
| 18:58.11 | gnarface | it won't make it faster and it might fail to work correctly on certain media |
| 18:58.11 | MinceR | what should i do instead? |
| 18:58.19 | gnarface | everything else was the same |
| 18:58.33 | SueGoogle | bs=4k ? |
| 18:58.57 | gnarface | specifying a large block size in general is only useful for reads. for writes it's usually immaterial but occasionally breaks |
| 18:59.13 | SueGoogle | this is true ^ |
| 18:59.21 | gnarface | SueGoogle: you gotta check the device with hdparm. 4k is correct for a lot of newer stuff but 512 and 1024 is still common in the wild |
| 18:59.24 | SueGoogle | unless you use conv=notrunc or something? |
| 18:59.42 | gnarface | i try to avoid the conv= stuff |
| 18:59.47 | furrywolf | for all the times you're using dd to read but not write? |
| 19:00.03 | DonkeyHotei | conv=fdatasync,sparse |
| 19:00.27 | gnarface | furrywolf: i often read and write the same disk image an equal amount of times over the course of the host machine's full life span |
| 19:00.54 | gnarface | (dealing more with small images like SD card images for ARM devices) |
| 19:01.02 | furrywolf | my point is, dd generally reads and writes at the same time. |
| 19:01.03 | SueGoogle | i assume you dont use any partitions |
| 19:01.09 | gnarface | oh |
| 19:01.13 | SueGoogle | or you create a dd of each partition? |
| 19:01.32 | gnarface | furrywolf: i'm assuming it was clearly implied that reading from /dev/zero isn't the relevant bottleneck |
| 19:01.52 | gnarface | SueGoogle: you can dd the whole thing, partitions included |
| 19:02.05 | furrywolf | you never know... might be one of those new high-entropy secure zeros... :P |
| 19:02.10 | gnarface | heh |
| 19:02.23 | SueGoogle | yeah you can, just kind of sucks when you want to use a larger disk |
| 19:02.39 | SueGoogle | but if you keep the partition table seperate then you can just resize2fs |
| 19:02.52 | SueGoogle | more or less, but w/e |
| 19:03.06 | gnarface | true, but it doesn't really cost more effort to use gparted on the partitions these days |
| 19:03.23 | gnarface | in those situations i'm rarely changing the size of the SD card during the process |
| 19:03.25 | SueGoogle | i only use fdisk, so maybe you are right |
| 19:03.36 | furrywolf | I don't think I've ever used gparted. |
| 19:04.45 | gnarface | i mean you could use parted in a pinch but so far i've just never been in a situation where i didn't have a machine capable of at least booting a graphical environment in a live image i could plug the device into |
| 19:05.08 | furrywolf | I usually use cfdisk, except for when its partition type bugs get in the way, then fdisk. |
| 19:05.24 | furrywolf | (cfdisk mis-reports partition type) |
| 19:05.37 | furrywolf | dunno if it's been fixed in newer versions |
| 19:06.06 | SueGoogle | maybe its been fixed in systemd-cfdisk |
| 19:06.09 | SueGoogle | LoLLLLllll |
| 19:07.04 | SueGoogle | systemd-cfdiskd |
| 19:07.36 | SueGoogle | know why redhat is called redhat? |
| 19:07.42 | SueGoogle | because they are communists |
| 19:07.45 | SueGoogle | boom. |
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