| 00:00.39 | freem | imo, it's a tool made just to let the world know that the FSF did something else than GCC and GDB. |
| 00:01.23 | freem | and as GCC and Bash, it's slow, hard to use. |
| 00:02.04 | Centurion_Dan | is it GNU and FSF bashing day?? |
| 00:02.10 | freem | nope |
| 00:02.20 | freem | it's just my opinion |
| 00:02.43 | msiism | i actually like Bash quite a lot, though my scripts would probably run in ksh as well. |
| 00:02.49 | freem | but, I'm ok to change it, if someone can provide arguments. |
| 00:04.03 | Centurion_Dan | info would probably be half reasonable if it's info pages where up to date and linked properly... but it fails to do that, and it's usage is not well documented... |
| 00:04.23 | msiism | and then was info developed? |
| 00:04.28 | freem | msiism, the fact I prefer zsh over bash should never imply me writing low level scripts only for zsh |
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| 00:05.08 | msiism | s then/when |
| 00:05.19 | Centurion_Dan | man pages have proven to be better both to maintain and use the info. |
| 00:05.21 | freem | Centurion_Dan, did you tries to use it? You ask info on something, and it replies about it's own doc! |
| 00:06.11 | freem | I'll need a tutorial on info, when on man I never need one |
| 00:06.15 | Centurion_Dan | heh, I get "command not installed" in response to info... |
| 00:06.43 | Centurion_Dan | it's not even installed by default. |
| 00:06.49 | freem | yes, info is not installed by default, especially on minimal systems |
| 00:07.11 | freem | also, when you install it, it rarely contains more than a copy of manpages |
| 00:07.22 | Centurion_Dan | I haven't used info in years anyway... |
| 00:07.25 | msiism | i have it on my system |
| 00:08.00 | freem | my opinion: it's a piece of crap. Hard to use, no real content, only non-free content.... to bin, is the destination. |
| 00:08.28 | msiism | but "bin" is not the trash bin in unix... |
| 00:08.36 | freem | meh |
| 00:08.43 | msiism | /usr/bin/info :) |
| 00:08.46 | Centurion_Dan | freem: fair enough... I wouldn't go that far... I'd say it' |
| 00:09.19 | freem | I'm still open, if someone can provide me any good reason to install info-related stuff.... |
| 00:09.49 | freem | except that the fact it uses emacs-like keyboards shortcuts, of course. |
| 00:09.50 | Centurion_Dan | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:10.19 | msiism | freem: it might have more than man pages in some situations. sometimes man pages will state that more detailed info is to be found in an info page. |
| 00:10.40 | Centurion_Dan | freem: I've never bothered to use emacs either... I'm a vim guy.. |
| 00:11.10 | freem | msiism, and so often, you have to guess the exact command to reach that, and too often it fails with a default page that let you helpless. |
| 00:11.34 | freem | Centurion_Dan, same here. At least, you can use any POSIX OS with vi. |
| 00:11.43 | msiism | freem: probably. i'm not trying to defent it. |
| 00:12.29 | msiism | defend... |
| 00:12.38 | freem | msiism, it's sad. I'll be happy to learn the advantages of that tool. It must have some, after all, even if I do not like it. |
| 00:13.14 | msiism | freem: not every tool is for everyone. |
| 00:14.02 | freem | msiism, true enough. But, I would happy to meet someone that use info. Really. |
| 00:14.28 | Centurion_Dan | it would be ok if it had a decent index and every package provided good quality info pages... but that's not been the case in a long time, so it's not "very useful" as the Fat Controller would say... |
| 00:14.32 | Centurion_Dan | ;-0 |
| 00:15.26 | freem | but, they could generate such from manpages, since manpages actually does that from groff |
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| 00:16.19 | freem | also, the only stuff I can find on info and not on manpages are stuff that can't be modified.... and thus, non-free. |
| 00:16.32 | freem | like gdb doc. |
| 00:20.01 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@208.53.50.136) |
| 00:20.01 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release | This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | off-topic conversation in #debianfork please | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
| 00:20.01 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:21.07 | freem | I should say, that fit's my understanding of the DFSG the 1st time I've read them |
| 00:21.58 | freem | s/should say/sould have said/g |
| 00:22.42 | msiism | i should probably also give them a re-read sometime soon |
| 00:23.25 | freem | same here, maybe they changed stuff or I had bad interpretations |
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| 00:23.53 | freem | I wonder, is devuan keeping on the DFSG ? |
| 00:24.13 | Centurion_Dan | freem: I'm sitting on the fence on this one... on the one hand it would be advantageous to be able to have invariant information - to preserve the integrity of the information shared and to give context... on the other hand it seems 2 faced to require all software to be free and open and yet want to protect parts of the documentation associated - especially if what is supposed to be protected as "invariant" is actually political and |
| 00:25.16 | Centurion_Dan | bbl |
| 00:25.23 | freem | bbl? |
| 00:26.17 | msiism | is there a helper bot for chatspeak in here? |
| 00:26.40 | freem | anyway, we can have history through certified DVCS, why should invariants be added? |
| 00:26.56 | freem | exept for politics, I mean |
| 00:27.16 | msiism | i think that's why they are added. though there may be other reasons, too. |
| 00:27.22 | Xenguy | Be back later, surely |
| 00:27.31 | msiism | the GFDL says things about that. |
| 00:28.30 | freem | yeah, it does says that documentation should keep history. IIRC. |
| 00:28.33 | Xenguy | doesn't understand the 'invariant' issue... |
| 00:29.07 | msiism | Xenguy: you can define so-called invariant sections when you license your docs with GFDL |
| 00:29.22 | Xenguy | Exceptions? |
| 00:29.24 | freem | Xenguy, if something is invariant, then it's not modifiable, and so, it's not respecting the 4 liberties of FOSS. |
| 00:29.35 | Xenguy | huh |
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| 00:29.39 | Xenguy | interesting |
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| 00:30.12 | Xenguy | read-only |
| 00:31.05 | msiism | fwiw: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-1.3.en.html |
| 00:31.15 | freem | and the GFDL, a FSF licence for doc, do provides features that gives invariants on said document, no restriction on parts. So, a source code on GFDL would be free for them, but you would not have the right to change it |
| 00:31.46 | freem | so, it's a closed source licence. |
| 00:32.11 | freem | hum, a non-free licence* I meant |
| 00:32.57 | msiism | freem: that's not true. |
| 00:33.32 | freem | what is not true? |
| 00:33.37 | msiism | also FSF/GNU do recommend GPL for source code, even in GFDL-licensed docs. |
| 00:34.15 | msiism | and there is no such thing as invariant sections in gpl, iirc. |
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| 00:35.14 | msiism | a gfdl-licensed document will allow you to change any part of it, except invariant sections. |
| 00:35.19 | freem | they recommend, which means, they do not forbid the use of GFDL for code, right? |
| 00:35.28 | freem | and that's the problem |
| 00:36.01 | freem | exept for invariant sections, event if they are desync |
| 00:36.51 | freem | it has been made, IIRC, for a noble goal, to remind contributors |
| 00:37.35 | msiism | invariant sections have to be "secondary sections" by definition, meaning not an integral part of the wokr content-wise. |
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| 00:37.55 | freem | but intellectual property was also made with noble goals |
| 00:38.07 | msiism | i doubt that |
| 00:38.14 | freem | what is a secondary section? |
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| 00:40.16 | msiism | freem: https://www.gnu.org/licenses/fdl-1.3.en.html |
| 00:41.37 | freem | nice info page. Hard to link to the intersting section. Do you have some word I could search for? |
| 00:43.22 | msiism | "secondary section" |
| 00:43.27 | msiism | "invariant section" |
| 00:44.01 | freem | heh, so, yes, invariant sections describe non free restrictions |
| 00:44.12 | msiism | sure, they do. |
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| 00:44.20 | freem | The relationship could be a matter of historical connection with the subject or with related matters, or of legal, commercial, philosophical, ethical or political position regarding them. |
| 00:45.16 | freem | in other words, one could say a document under said licence could not be used by communists, for example. |
| 00:46.23 | freem | freedom should be for everyone, only it's bad use should be restricted |
| 00:46.44 | msiism | freem: you need to discuss that with rms. |
| 00:46.48 | freem | and bad should be defined by countries, I guess |
| 00:47.11 | freem | I never had the chance to meet him |
| 00:48.53 | freem | irc and mailing lists are the only way for me to contact people with decent knowledge about computers tbh |
| 00:52.47 | msiism | freem: hold on, i got sth for you |
| 00:53.09 | freem | sth? |
| 00:53.20 | msiism | something |
| 00:53.26 | freem | meh |
| 00:56.04 | freem | hard time to ind the keywords anew? |
| 00:57.39 | msiism | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFMMXRoSxnA&t=6m43s |
| 00:57.54 | msiism | :D |
| 00:58.54 | msiism | ok, i gotta go. |
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| 01:17.33 | freem | I've got to go too. Good night |
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| 03:28.04 | DeeEff | Hey all, got a question about NVIDIA drivers, anyone here able to assist? |
| 03:28.30 | DeeEff | Basically my problem is that when I call `glxinfo | grep -i opengl` it says my vendor is VMWare (this is a physical machine) and that it's using Mesa for libGL |
| 03:28.42 | DeeEff | I want it to use the proprietary nvidia drivers but don't know what I'm diong wrong. |
| 03:28.53 | DeeEff | So far it seems I'm using the proprietary drivers with X, just not with opengl |
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| 03:51.54 | gnarface | DeeEff: on ascii? the default is to use the open source "nouveau" driver |
| 03:52.22 | gnarface | i'm not sure, but even if you install the nvidia official closed-source binary driver you may have to manually blacklist nouveau to keep it from loading first |
| 03:52.38 | gnarface | make sure to use the drivers from the non-free section of the repo though |
| 03:52.50 | DeeEff | I'm on ceres, but that's not important. The problem isn't nouveau, since I've already uninstalled that. |
| 03:52.56 | gnarface | (the nvidia installer shell script from nvidia.com causes additional problems of it's own) |
| 03:53.11 | gnarface | hmmm. run this: dpkg -l |grep nvidia -i |
| 03:53.22 | DeeEff | Right now my issue is the libGL provider, which is Mesa, whereas I want it to dispatch to always use my GLX provider, Nvidia |
| 03:53.41 | gnarface | yea, maybe a broken symlink to libGL.so |
| 03:53.58 | gnarface | did you use the packages in the repo, or did you use the shell script from nvidia.com? |
| 03:54.17 | gnarface | like i said, the shell script has known problems, but the nvidia packages in ceres don't have a spotless record ither |
| 03:54.19 | gnarface | *either |
| 03:55.01 | DeeEff | https://paste.debian.net/plain/1030740 |
| 03:55.13 | DeeEff | As far as I can tell this is correct |
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| 03:55.45 | DeeEff | I think part of the confusion is that mesa can sometimes dispatch to GLX if you have DRI configured |
| 03:55.49 | DeeEff | but I have no idea how one would set that up |
| 03:55.58 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 03:56.21 | gnarface | apt-get install libgl1-nvidia-glx:amd64 libgl1-nvidia-glx:i386 |
| 03:56.26 | gnarface | what does this do?^ |
| 03:56.37 | DeeEff | breaks everything |
| 03:56.39 | DeeEff | I have tried that |
| 03:56.58 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 03:57.02 | DeeEff | those require the nonglvnd drivers, which don't seem to work at all so all my libgl stuff breaks |
| 03:57.16 | gnarface | i just ran into this yesterday, and that's what fixed it for me :( |
| 03:57.27 | gnarface | either they broke it worse today or it's a hardware difference i'm guessing |
| 03:57.29 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 03:57.46 | DeeEff | probably a hardware difference. I'm running a 650Ti |
| 03:57.57 | gnarface | nope, same hardware |
| 03:57.58 | gnarface | heh |
| 03:59.01 | gnarface | they must be breaking stuff back there |
| 04:00.22 | gnarface | DeeEff: i gotta go, but here, compare it to my package list, i'll be back: http://paste.debian.net/1030741/ |
| 04:00.33 | DeeEff | thanks |
| 04:00.52 | gnarface | (maybe if you can get yours to match this it'll work ) |
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| 05:40.00 | bozonius | installing devuan ascii on my test box, real hardware this time. Had some challenges getting networking to work, but that's a separate issue having to do with my peculiar environment, using virtual fw appliances, etc. Got that working. |
| 05:41.01 | bozonius | Only issue actually, in the end, was the package selection step. Again, would not let me pick different desktops (didn't we talk about this already?). I went with default for the desktop, but I did select command line productivity and it allowed that. |
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| 05:42.11 | bozonius | so, overall, not too bad. I realize, again, that this sort of feedback would have been more useful (maybe) during the testing phase for ascii. |
| 05:42.48 | bozonius | I hope to participate in testing the next version though. I am wondering if anything could be done about the rather clumsy "expert" graphical install |
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| 05:43.14 | bozonius | seems like it goes beyond mere "expert" and more like a PhD is required in all things *nix* |
| 05:43.24 | bozonius | (including bugs and the like) |
| 05:44.22 | bozonius | Personally, I do not have every bug that has ever been listed at sourceforge memorized. |
| 05:44.31 | bozonius | But there are probably people who do. |
| 05:44.40 | KatolaZ | bozonius: expert install is what it says :D |
| 05:44.52 | bozonius | install is finishing up, looking forward to seeing this thing fly |
| 05:46.19 | bozonius | It should be renamed "PhD" and a new level should be added for those who want more flexibility, but not the buggy install experience |
| 05:46.25 | bozonius | buggy/outdated |
| 05:46.33 | bozonius | just my opinion, KatolaZ |
| 05:46.41 | KatolaZ | which bugs are you referring to? |
| 05:46.49 | KatolaZ | please report them |
| 05:46.50 | bozonius | I'm guessing we suffer with whatever comes down from Debian? |
| 05:47.04 | bozonius | well, like selecting desktops, as I said... |
| 05:47.20 | KatolaZ | that is something I have never seen TBH |
| 05:47.39 | KatolaZ | but we should check better maybe |
| 05:47.52 | bozonius | I've had that problem on VM installs and now on Real HW |
| 05:47.52 | KatolaZ | I remember it allows you to choose as many desktops as you like |
| 05:47.57 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 05:48.02 | KatolaZ | please file a bug report |
| 05:48.11 | bozonius | yes, until the install tells you it can't do it or something |
| 05:48.15 | KatolaZ | or this will fall into oblivion |
| 05:48.23 | bozonius | (I forget what it said, but it did not allow it) |
| 05:48.25 | KatolaZ | bozonius: are you using a CDROM? |
| 05:48.32 | bozonius | no, thumb drive |
| 05:48.38 | KatolaZ | -_- |
| 05:48.42 | bozonius | what! |
| 05:48.46 | KatolaZ | I mean, is that a CD install image? |
| 05:48.49 | bozonius | yes |
| 05:49.02 | KatolaZ | answer is easy: you don't have all the desktops in the first CD |
| 05:49.12 | KatolaZ | that's why it can't install them |
| 05:49.17 | bozonius | it is the netinstall image |
| 05:49.29 | KatolaZ | oh wait |
| 05:49.32 | bozonius | yeah... |
| 05:49.39 | KatolaZ | and then you use a network repo? |
| 05:50.12 | bozonius | I use whatever repo(s) the netinstall uses, I guess... |
| 05:50.30 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 05:50.37 | bozonius | just fyi, came up beautifully, no problems |
| 05:50.40 | KatolaZ | please file a bug report |
| 05:50.46 | bozonius | now for the fun part... |
| 05:51.22 | bozonius | yeah... bug report. I'll check first to see if someone has already reported it. I can't believe I am the only one (but then again LOL) |
| 05:51.42 | buZz | about what? |
| 05:51.52 | buZz | who still uses sourceforge? :O |
| 05:52.28 | bozonius | buZz: I meant that sarcastically |
| 05:52.45 | bozonius | I'm just saying that the install seems to be a minefield of "issues" |
| 05:53.09 | buZz | > I went with default for the desktop, but I did select command line productivity and it allowed that. |
| 05:53.15 | buZz | bozonius: lol , ok |
| 05:53.28 | buZz | its just the same installer thats been used on debian for .. 10 years? |
| 05:53.31 | bozonius | and to do an expert install you really need to be one of those guys with thick coke-bottle glasses, wearing a white shirt with the pen protector, who has memorized every bug ever filed against the system... |
| 05:53.47 | gnarface | hey now let's not get hateful |
| 05:53.49 | bozonius | well, it's tired and worn out |
| 05:53.55 | bozonius | sorry |
| 05:53.59 | buZz | maybe your describing yourself? :) |
| 05:54.17 | bozonius | actually, my own glasses ARE getting kinda thick the last few years... and I still can't see everything. |
| 05:54.49 | gnarface | the Debian installer was never known for being user-friendly, even after they revamped it to be more user friendly. it really used to be much worse. |
| 05:55.15 | bozonius | I seem to recall trying to install debian "back in the day" |
| 05:55.15 | gnarface | the devuan installer preserves the expected behavior quite faithfully |
| 05:55.48 | gnarface | i suspect that most of the awkwardness hasn't been fixed because it's the type of thing that stops bothering you after the first try |
| 05:55.49 | bozonius | and maybe why I never ended up using it. Ubuntu install was huge improvement |
| 05:56.06 | gnarface | i did not succeed with the earlier Debian install, either |
| 05:56.11 | gnarface | don't feel bad |
| 05:56.16 | bozonius | ok |
| 05:56.49 | bozonius | but I am happy now that I have ascii installed on a test box I can really start playing with. |
| 05:56.59 | buZz | \o/ |
| 05:57.02 | bozonius | I want to try all sorts of awful things |
| 05:57.17 | bozonius | the kind of stuff that will have me visiting you often, probably |
| 05:57.33 | gnarface | once you have network up and running you should be able to connect to the network repo and test desktop environments with impunity |
| 05:57.37 | KatolaZ | the problem is that you can't make everybody happy :) |
| 05:57.45 | KatolaZ | or, not in a finite amount of time |
| 05:57.46 | bozonius | I know you all can't get enough of my IRC chat |
| 05:58.00 | bozonius | with limited resources too, KatolaZ |
| 05:58.20 | bozonius | I think you guys have done a great job, even with some problems |
| 05:58.32 | bozonius | you are Linux SuperHeroes |
| 05:58.40 | KatolaZ | bozonius: the thing is that people should normally use the standard install |
| 05:58.44 | KatolaZ | unless they need the expert install |
| 05:58.48 | bozonius | because you have saved the world from the evil ONE |
| 05:58.55 | buZz | systemd? |
| 05:59.03 | bozonius | (I needed the expert install for what I wanted to do) |
| 05:59.06 | KatolaZ | and if they need it, well, they are supposed to know how to use it |
| 05:59.14 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 05:59.18 | bozonius | buZz!!!! How dare you utter that word... |
| 05:59.25 | buZz | i dare a lot of stuff :P |
| 05:59.26 | KatolaZ | systemd |
| 05:59.27 | KatolaZ | :P |
| 05:59.43 | buZz | i think daring to do stuff is what got us here in the first place |
| 05:59.51 | KatolaZ | there is nothing sacre in any word ;) |
| 06:00.03 | bozonius | especially not THAT one! |
| 06:00.17 | KatolaZ | s/sacre/sacred |
| 06:00.28 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 06:01.11 | KatolaZ | but seriously, bozonius please report any bug you find |
| 06:01.14 | bozonius | ok guys I'll be back later with updates on my adventures in Devuan Ascii... I have an early morning meeting (PT here) and need to go to bed |
| 06:01.23 | bozonius | KatolaZ I will |
| 06:01.27 | KatolaZ | thanks |
| 06:01.53 | buZz | PT? portugal? |
| 06:02.02 | bozonius | sorry Pacific Time |
| 06:02.09 | buZz | thats not a timezone |
| 06:02.10 | bozonius | it's 11pm local time here |
| 06:02.32 | bozonius | "PT" is used frequently for Pacific Time |
| 06:02.37 | buZz | PST its called , or PDT in summer |
| 06:02.40 | bozonius | where are you |
| 06:02.49 | buZz | CEST |
| 06:03.01 | bozonius | yes, PST or PDT, but that is only if I can remember which it is at that moment... |
| 06:03.30 | syco_ | GMT+xyz |
| 06:03.35 | bozonius | ok PDT here |
| 06:03.43 | bozonius | GMT-8 I believe |
| 06:04.31 | buZz | thats my 'UE' timezone on my clock :) , its indeed GMT-8 |
| 06:05.00 | buZz | https://i.imgur.com/fAos82y.jpg <- my clock |
| 06:05.03 | bozonius | UE? |
| 06:05.08 | buZz | US east |
| 06:05.14 | buZz | eh, west, derp |
| 06:05.16 | bozonius | US west |
| 06:05.18 | bozonius | yeah |
| 06:05.37 | buZz | the first after 'U' is you |
| 06:06.10 | bozonius | unbelievable. A stock ticker... |
| 06:06.13 | bozonius | LOL |
| 06:06.14 | syco_ | "U" for universal or for "US" ? :p |
| 06:06.23 | buZz | syco_: what do you think ;) |
| 06:06.37 | syco_ | GMT :p |
| 06:06.38 | buZz | bozonius: nah just the topright number is the BTC price |
| 06:07.01 | bozonius | ok, night all. I'll be back later... probably tomorrow evening |
| 06:08.13 | buZz | sleep tight |
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| 08:20.15 | Gup | hey guys, is VLC meant to be available in ascii? vlc : Depends: vlc-plugin-base (= 3.0.2-0+deb9u1) but it is not going to be installed |
| 08:22.23 | Gup | noticed this on my upgrades and clean installs |
| 08:25.22 | KatolaZ | Gup: which repos are you using? |
| 08:25.42 | KatolaZ | you should use deb.devuan.org |
| 08:26.19 | Gup | auto.mirror.devuan.org |
| 08:26.33 | Gup | i will try with deb. |
| 08:27.42 | KatolaZ | Gup: and you should also read the ASCII release notes ;) |
| 08:29.23 | Gup | yeah thats working now, thanks KatolaZ |
| 08:29.41 | Gup | I'll have browse of those release notes ;) |
| 08:31.11 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 08:35.57 | Gup | seems i've used a combination of deb.mirror. and gb.mirror. across my different installs |
| 08:36.12 | Gup | it must be really easy to select, or even auto detected during install? |
| 08:36.29 | Gup | should these options really be removed from the installer if thy are deprecated? |
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| 08:40.00 | Gup | to add to the confusion the upgrade guide linked to from the release notes uses pkgmaster.devuan.org ;) |
| 08:42.04 | KatolaZ | Gup: that needs to be amended |
| 08:42.19 | KatolaZ | but pkgmaster has the same stuff as deb.devuan.org |
| 08:42.43 | KatolaZ | (it's actually the opposite, but equality is in practice a symmetric relation :P) |
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| 10:23.23 | filipdevuan | hey im quite confused... last year i bought typical win10 laptop with 4gb ram i5 intel 7th gen and optimus card intel hd 500 and nvidia geforce 940mx and i like using devuan but this laptop is very confusing... how am i supposed to use 940mx on linux without drivers... |
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| 11:28.15 | jaromil | is ponchale around sometimes? I'm curious about astian.org would love to support but no link to downloads or source is there so perhaps a bit early to ask. |
| 11:28.24 | jaromil | thanks for noticing golinux |
| 11:30.09 | jaromil | none of these links lead to any software, let alone free software https://www.astian.org/projects I assume is WIP and look forward to be noticed when there is something to try for us to assess astian |
| 11:30.50 | FlibberTGibbet | their site does look a little light |
| 11:31.34 | jaromil | I don't mind considering non-native english speaking, but the software should be there. I think they are transitioning from a previous page |
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| 11:33.09 | jaromil | i think this is a start https://gitlab.com/sauce-desktop |
| 11:34.09 | jaromil | and this the CMS mentioned https://www.cszcms.com/ |
| 11:34.28 | FlibberTGibbet | was about to check for public repos but there you go. looks like very early stages |
| 11:34.29 | jaromil | I'd be curious to try an ISO of all of it put together into a distro, until then we can hardly endorse them |
| 11:34.48 | jaromil | since people expect to have a distro behind the link |
| 11:35.12 | FlibberTGibbet | wonder how complete that 'astian os' is? looks like it at least has their DE and app builder included |
| 11:36.49 | FlibberTGibbet | hmm. there's an 'astian os' on sourceforge: https://sourceforge.net/projects/astian-os/ |
| 11:37.05 | FlibberTGibbet | but that says arch-based where their site says ubuntu |
| 11:37.17 | jaromil | i think they plan to settle on devuan now |
| 11:37.32 | FlibberTGibbet | that would be good |
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| 11:39.08 | FlibberTGibbet | call me old-fashioned but i reckon they'd do better developing their DE or whatever than trying to build a distro just to hold it... |
| 11:39.49 | syco_ | build on kde with sauce desktop ? kaiser-sauce ? |
| 11:39.53 | syco_ | ducks |
| 11:40.33 | FlibberTGibbet | oof :) |
| 11:41.52 | jaromil | bwahahaha |
| 11:42.46 | jaromil | i think they have a plan for a webapps based firefoxOS of sorts, so the desktop won't need much more than a login and a browser full screen |
| 11:42.56 | jaromil | wild guessing |
| 11:45.16 | FlibberTGibbet | nice if it works, i guess |
| 11:56.42 | syco_ | has been done 20 years ago within Netscape Navigator .. |
| 11:57.11 | KatolaZ | yeah, what can possibly go wrong? (TM) :D |
| 11:59.11 | syco_ | i did some kind of afterstep clone that would only work with netscape .. but it did :p |
| 11:59.14 | FlibberTGibbet | about time we had an os that concentrated on gopher apps... |
| 11:59.36 | jaromil | agree on the gopher apps |
| 12:00.02 | jaromil | syco_: being an afterstep fanboy i may have seen your experiments sometimes in the past |
| 12:00.04 | FlibberTGibbet | i love gopher. rediscovered it recently on sdf.org and now have my own server for notes at home |
| 12:00.14 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: I guess by "gopher" you mean the protocol on port 70, right? |
| 12:00.19 | jaromil | bitreich also |
| 12:00.22 | FlibberTGibbet | yes KatolaZ |
| 12:00.27 | jaromil | http://bitreich.org/ |
| 12:00.27 | KatolaZ | great |
| 12:00.59 | KatolaZ | I wanted to have a gopher app to browse package info |
| 12:01.02 | FlibberTGibbet | gopher plus clippy on that bitreich site :D |
| 12:01.03 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:01.11 | KatolaZ | won't be difficult, indeed |
| 12:01.34 | jaromil | :^D |
| 12:01.36 | FlibberTGibbet | it's possible to write gopher apps quite simply. unless you're me of course -- don't think there's an idiot-proof python library for it :) |
| 12:01.49 | jaromil | I like what I'm reading :^D |
| 12:01.53 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: you need just a shell script :) |
| 12:02.08 | FlibberTGibbet | KatolaZ: more my speed, that |
| 12:02.36 | FlibberTGibbet | gopher's only problem is a lack of decent javascript frameworks. oh, wait... |
| 12:02.53 | KatolaZ | that's actually a feature :D |
| 12:02.55 | syco_ | nodejs |
| 12:03.21 | FlibberTGibbet | plus it needs css-for-ncurses :) |
| 12:03.35 | KatolaZ | wodejs |
| 12:03.39 | FlibberTGibbet | lol |
| 12:04.56 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: reading your nick instantly gets be back to Dante |
| 12:04.59 | KatolaZ | every single time :D |
| 12:05.12 | KatolaZ | ("gibbetto feci a me de le mie case...") |
| 12:06.24 | KatolaZ | I know "gibbet" has gone more towards "public scorn" nowadays |
| 12:06.53 | KatolaZ | but I really see myself again in highschool every time I real FlibberTGibbet :D |
| 12:07.10 | KatolaZ | strange machine we have between our ears... |
| 12:08.07 | FlibberTGibbet | really? gosh. can think of worse writers to be remind people of than Dante. :) |
| 12:08.21 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 12:08.24 | FlibberTGibbet | would be depressing if i reminded you of Dan Brown's Inferno instead! |
| 12:08.26 | KatolaZ | it's not your fault |
| 12:09.04 | KatolaZ | I think Dan Brown would have actually been worse maybe.... |
| 12:09.04 | FlibberTGibbet | a 'Flibbertegibbet' is a gossip and general speaker of inconsequential nonsense. So it was a very carefully picked nick indeed... |
| 12:09.14 | KatolaZ | yeah I know |
| 12:09.15 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 12:10.15 | KatolaZ | I wouldn't be surprised if it originally came from French |
| 12:10.21 | FlibberTGibbet | quite possibly |
| 12:10.26 | syco_ | nope |
| 12:10.34 | syco_ | je le saurais ;p |
| 12:11.09 | KatolaZ | I guess gibet is still used in French with the same meaning as in late latin/vulgar |
| 12:11.16 | FlibberTGibbet | apparently also associated with legends about Wayland's Smithy, which isn't far from here. |
| 12:11.38 | syco_ | gibet is where you hang people |
| 12:11.48 | FlibberTGibbet | yup |
| 12:11.53 | KatolaZ | I know syco_ |
| 12:11.53 | syco_ | a tree ar a special construct |
| 12:11.57 | KatolaZ | it's gallows |
| 12:12.35 | FlibberTGibbet | you get places over here called 'heavitree' which used to be spelled 'heavy tree' after the knotty end of local law enforcement. grim stuff... |
| 12:12.48 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 12:13.12 | KatolaZ | always benn fascinated about how languages changes and evolves over time |
| 12:13.21 | KatolaZ | s/ges/ge |
| 12:13.40 | FlibberTGibbet | it's a great subject |
| 12:13.46 | syco_ | especially nowadays |
| 12:14.03 | FlibberTGibbet | languages are changing all the time but also many smaller ones are vanishing :( |
| 12:14.15 | syco_ | yep |
| 12:14.26 | KatolaZ | bbl |
| 12:14.28 | KatolaZ | o/ |
| 12:14.36 | FlibberTGibbet | bye for now KatolaZ |
| 12:14.43 | KatolaZ | I am happy to know that there are other gopher fans around |
| 12:14.44 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:14.51 | KatolaZ | we should have a Devuan gopherhole maybe |
| 12:14.55 | FlibberTGibbet | great idea! |
| 12:14.56 | KatolaZ | jaromil, parazyd ^^ ;) |
| 12:15.00 | FlibberTGibbet | +1 |
| 12:16.50 | parazyd | KatolaZ: You know I'm biased :p |
| 12:17.32 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 12:17.40 | KatolaZ | that's why I am saying that :P |
| 12:17.44 | FlibberTGibbet | i wonder if it's possible to reverse proxy gopher so that 2 sites can be presented off the same host? if so I'll set up gopher.friendsofdevuan.org ... |
| 12:18.59 | parazyd | FlibberTGibbet: Some gopher servers might be able to do it. |
| 12:20.31 | FlibberTGibbet | would something like nginx be able to handle a non-http/https protocol, d'you think? |
| 12:24.23 | FlibberTGibbet | ah, looks like nginx can handle it |
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| 12:50.55 | filipdevuan | my dual graphics card wont allow me to use devuan, its so hard to configure optimus drivers ;/ |
| 12:51.22 | filipdevuan | im desperate cuz i paid 600 bucks for laptop with 4gb ram ddr4 which is a joke and geforce 940mx i cant really use :( |
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| 12:53.52 | jaromil | bumblebee not working? |
| 12:59.45 | Humpelst1lzchen | filipdevuan: I thpought we agreed that you have only one graphic card? |
| 12:59.50 | Humpelst1lzchen | *thought |
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| 13:00.20 | djph | Humpelst1lzchen: optimus is a laptop garbage "hybrid graphics card" technology. |
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| 13:00.37 | filipdevuan | it is very much garbage |
| 13:00.55 | filipdevuan | its a shame that i didnt know its a garbage when my nan was buying me a laptop... |
| 13:00.58 | djph | instead of having a proper discrete card, it uses the intel (AMD) on-cpu-die card unless $conditions |
| 13:01.09 | Humpelst1lzchen | djph: don't think its garbage |
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| 13:01.29 | NeonLicht | Hello. |
| 13:01.31 | Humpelst1lzchen | the idea is great imho |
| 13:01.33 | djph | although, on newer revisions you can tell it in bios/uefi to actually behave. |
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| 13:03.22 | Humpelst1lzchen | djph: you can entirely blame it on nvidia and X that it still does not work on Linux as it supposed to be |
| 13:04.16 | NeonLicht | I've upgraded from jessie to ascii on several boxes and I'm very happy with it, exept I have a small problem with uzbl. When I run it, it works fine, but when I visit certain sites, the fonts in the status bar stop showing, and small rectangles show instead. Any pointers, please? |
| 13:04.22 | djph | Humpelst1lzchen: it was garbage on windows too. |
| 13:05.06 | djph | Humpelst1lzchen: although I luckily have (er, had since that mobo died horribly) a late enough one that a bios patch (IIRC) allowed me to just turn on the nvidia card full-time. |
| 13:05.32 | Humpelst1lzchen | djph: Afaik all thinkpads can do that |
| 13:05.52 | Humpelst1lzchen | at least all thinkpads I've seen could do that |
| 13:06.37 | djph | yeah, I have a Dell. But cat knocked glass o water on it, fried the mobo. wasn't sure if it was jsut the mobo, so replaced it with teh 'non-nvidia' one |
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| 13:14.56 | Humpelst1lzchen | To be honest in 2011 I spent quite a lot getting bumblebee to work...without ever actually using it |
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| 13:39.33 | xrogaan | anybody else using consolekit and slim has issue when trying to directly login after boot? |
| 13:39.55 | xrogaan | Login as soon as the prompt shows up. |
| 13:47.33 | xrogaan | I need a dedicated email to subscribe to FOSS mailing list |
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| 13:54.20 | NewGnuGuy | KatolaZ: Gopher is the best! :-) |
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| 15:43.06 | filipdevuan | yeah i went to my bios i wanted to disable intel completely but no luck. maybe it works but doesnt work like i could expect. It worked on linux mint though cuz it had downloaded drivers while updating OS. linux mint is great for that. xrogaan was helping me with these cards last week but i reinstalled my OS again and now it doesnt detect nvidia at all with lspci xD again. Its a joke... Can't really use my nvidia |
| 15:43.06 | filipdevuan | on devuan like i wish i could cuz it requires too much stuff to configure properly |
| 15:43.48 | filipdevuan | i may just reinstall my OS again and try to configure my drivers properly, i have bumblebee atm but i still havev issues... Perhaps i could somehow configure just intel gpu diablo 2 and tes oblivion worked on them |
| 15:45.12 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: if your main use of a linux box is to play Windows games, maybe what you need is a Windows box? :) |
| 15:45.21 | KatolaZ | don't get me wrong |
| 15:45.34 | KatolaZ | I am happy you are fiddling with Devuan |
| 15:45.59 | KatolaZ | but if it drives you mad, just remove the madness |
| 15:46.00 | filipdevuan | yeah i do, but not happy with too many processes going on win10 and old games dont work on windows 10 at all and its not even possible to fix the issue |
| 15:46.12 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 15:46.18 | KatolaZ | forget what I said then :) |
| 15:46.18 | filipdevuan | well the thing is this laptop has this nvidia geforce and i wish i could use it xD |
| 15:46.59 | filipdevuan | and this is not a proper laptop for linux stuff... :S. I did basically buy windows 10 laptop and this is the cause |
| 15:47.37 | filipdevuan | and not windows games, i wanna play native linux games ;P. |
| 15:47.51 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 15:48.04 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: you gotta be careful with hardware |
| 15:48.12 | filipdevuan | yeah i know it now ;P |
| 15:48.21 | KatolaZ | manufacturers normally don't give a toss about Linux |
| 15:48.29 | KatolaZ | (or at least most of them) |
| 15:53.14 | NewGnuGuy | filipdevuan: Tried ReactOS? |
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| 15:56.20 | filipdevuan | not really ;P |
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| 15:58.52 | filipdevuan | oh god my battery died hahah |
| 15:59.57 | filipdevuan | i will try it cuz i feel like trying new oses, id just install mint but i dont trust it, it had too many processes. im satisfied with devuan tho but i feel like im a bit too inexperienced with linux at the moment to use it like i want ;P |
| 16:01.50 | NewGnuGuy | If you try ReactOS, you'll want to install it from a CD rather than a USB disk. The USB stack is not finished yet. |
| 16:02.39 | filipdevuan | ook cheers ;P |
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| 16:17.54 | NeonLicht | I've upgraded from jessie to ascii on several boxes and I'm very happy with it, exept I have a small problem with uzbl. When I run it, it works fine, but when I visit certain sites, the fonts in the status bar stop showing, and small rectangles show instead. Any pointers, please? |
| 16:23.19 | KatolaZ | NeonLicht: have you tried t see if the bug is known in Debian (stretch)? |
| 16:24.48 | NeonLicht | I haven't, KatolaZ. |
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| 16:33.08 | KatolaZ | NeonLicht: you don't need to have stretch... |
| 16:33.16 | KatolaZ | just have a look at bugs.debian.org |
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| 16:40.39 | NeonLicht | Thanks, KatolaZ. There doesn't seem to be anything about uzbl. |
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| 17:03.05 | Unkn-Error | Hello |
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| 17:03.34 | Unkn-Error | Which image should I download for the Pi3 ? (SIMPLE Pi3, not the PLUS + version) |
| 17:03.44 | Unkn-Error | 1. devuan_ascii_2.0.0_arm64_raspi3.img.xz 153M |
| 17:03.47 | *** join/#devuan filipdevuan (~filipdevu@cpc77042-warw18-2-0-cust394.3-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 17:03.53 | Unkn-Error | 2. devuan_ascii_2.0.0_arm64_raspi3.tar.gz 221M |
| 17:03.56 | Unkn-Error | ? |
| 17:04.06 | *** join/#devuan markizano (markizano@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fec8:382d) |
| 17:04.24 | filipdevuan | i think im gonna go on linux mint for a bit and see how easy it is to set wine up and drivers and the performance, i was satisfied with it, but im too inexperienced with linux, but ill be back :) |
| 17:05.38 | *** join/#devuan abcabc__ (~ruse@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 17:17.50 | *** join/#devuan tsuggs (~tsuggs@198.86.109.10) |
| 17:22.40 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.154.21.141) |
| 17:26.26 | *** join/#devuan sunshavi (~user@181.64.192.154) |
| 17:29.12 | muep_ | Unkn-Error: my guess would be that both have the exact same image once you uncompress |
| 17:30.33 | *** join/#devuan maiz (~maiz@129.45.65.110) |
| 17:31.22 | *** join/#devuan Akuli (~Akuli@mobile-access-bceeeb-170.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:32.11 | Unkn-Error | muep_, I downloaded img.xz and WOW |
| 17:32.14 | telst4r | Q: DeVUAn jessie LXC template? :) |
| 17:32.39 | Unkn-Error | from 152 MB, after uncompressing is now about 2GB !!! |
| 17:32.55 | telst4r | that's called compressed air. |
| 17:33.01 | muep_ | Unkn-Error: that's why it is provided in compressed form |
| 17:33.05 | Unkn-Error | 1.84 GB exactly, that is like WOW |
| 17:33.09 | muep_ | disk images are often like that |
| 17:33.30 | Unkn-Error | I just can't belive it, that it was compressed so mutch |
| 17:33.50 | muep_ | they describe the exact layout of bytes on disk and not just the content of files, so there are large sections of just zero or suchlike in there |
| 17:34.17 | abcabc__ | it means it's quite low entropy. |
| 17:34.28 | *** join/#devuan indeo (indeo@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 17:34.32 | Unkn-Error | oh, so it is kina lika a "sector-by-sector" backup which is compressed |
| 17:34.40 | muep_ | it is byte-by-byte |
| 17:34.42 | Unkn-Error | but the "zero" part is left |
| 17:34.48 | Unkn-Error | left out |
| 17:34.55 | Unkn-Error | I see |
| 17:38.24 | KatolaZ | Unkn-Error: the majority of compression algorithms out there work on blocks |
| 17:38.35 | KatolaZ | of hundreds/thousands bytes |
| 17:38.45 | KatolaZ | they find repeating blocks |
| 17:38.53 | KatolaZ | and replace the repetitons with a reference |
| 17:39.24 | KatolaZ | if you have a block of 3000 zeros, it can reduce to something like "repeat '0' 3000 times' |
| 17:39.30 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@5.146.79.119) |
| 17:39.35 | KatolaZ | which is 20 bytes |
| 17:39.58 | KatolaZ | Unkn-Error: please try it at home :) |
| 17:40.13 | muep_ | I'd expect block-based to describe something based on fixed-size blocks, analogous to e.g. block ciphers |
| 17:40.25 | KatolaZ | no muep_ |
| 17:40.45 | KatolaZ | I mean that the orizion of patterns is a block of a certain size |
| 17:41.50 | muep_ | also my impression is that at least gzip is pretty flexible about being able to compress very short streams |
| 17:42.23 | KatolaZ | muep_: it varies a lot across algorithms |
| 17:42.36 | abcabc__ | huffman dictionaries are fun |
| 17:43.10 | muep_ | the DEFLATE algorithm used in gzip seems to be very popular among various compression formats, though of course there are also other algorithms in use |
| 17:43.15 | Unkn-Error | devuan booted in my Pi3 |
| 17:43.31 | Unkn-Error | no GUI like xfce/gnome/kde/lxde and so on |
| 17:43.44 | Unkn-Error | ssh enabled by default as root, but it is fine |
| 17:43.58 | muep_ | I have not studied the full DEFLATE algorithm, but at least a basic huffman coding can work well with an arbitrary number of bytes |
| 17:44.51 | KatolaZ | yes muep_ |
| 17:45.00 | Unkn-Error | Devuan arm, have all Debian arm packages? |
| 17:45.18 | KatolaZ | the problem is that the longest the stream, the much longer it takes to DEFLATE |
| 17:45.53 | muep_ | well yes, sure to keep performance reasonable, algorithms tend to limit how long bits they look at |
| 17:46.21 | KatolaZ | but that's configurable in all the algorithms available in the market |
| 17:46.31 | KatolaZ | it's the -# parameter |
| 17:46.41 | KatolaZ | where # is normally a number between 1 and 9 |
| 17:46.51 | KatolaZ | (probably stating the obvious here, sorry) |
| 17:47.09 | KatolaZ | (will silence myself :D) |
| 17:48.32 | Unkn-Error | why is better openrc over systemD? |
| 17:48.45 | muep_ | it is much smaller at least |
| 17:49.31 | Unkn-Error | if I will use syncthing, with openRC it will start automatically? |
| 17:50.05 | Unkn-Error | This -- >> https://syncthing.net |
| 17:50.17 | *** join/#devuan rypervenche (~rypervenc@unaffiliated/rypervenche) |
| 17:51.37 | Unkn-Error | OMG GUYS !!! |
| 17:51.44 | Unkn-Error | I can not belived again |
| 17:51.52 | telst4r | Why not ? |
| 17:51.55 | Unkn-Error | root@devuan:~# free -m |
| 17:51.57 | Unkn-Error | gives me |
| 17:52.06 | Unkn-Error | used 32 |
| 17:52.13 | Unkn-Error | that is ONLY 32 MB of ram memory |
| 17:52.49 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 17:52.51 | telst4r | You don't have firefox+bitcoinqt+clamav going I presume |
| 17:52.56 | KatolaZ | what's your problem Unkn-Error |
| 17:52.57 | KatolaZ | ? |
| 17:53.10 | KatolaZ | it's a whole lot of ram |
| 17:53.12 | Unkn-Error | I am just amazed |
| 17:53.22 | telst4r | "devuan is using too little memory"? |
| 17:53.37 | KatolaZ | if you rebuild your kernel you can probably strip it down to about 15/20 MB |
| 17:53.41 | Unkn-Error | every distro I have booted up in the RasPi they where using about 350-580 MB of ram |
| 17:53.50 | KatolaZ | minimal live uses about 14MB RAM |
| 17:54.05 | KatolaZ | Unkn-Error: maybe they had a DE installed.... |
| 17:54.10 | Unkn-Error | really? onlu 14? |
| 17:54.17 | Unkn-Error | yes they had |
| 17:54.21 | telst4r | Unkn-Error, every other distros are bloatware. |
| 17:54.23 | Unkn-Error | I will try to install DE here too |
| 17:54.26 | muep_ | my print server rpi has only 228 MB available |
| 17:54.32 | muep_ | I mean in total |
| 17:54.55 | Unkn-Error | muep_, do you use Z ram compression or tricks like that? |
| 17:55.10 | Unkn-Error | for making a Compressed Swap in ram memory? |
| 17:55.26 | muep_ | Unkn-Error: nothing special. IME there is not that much RAM pressure unless you run RAM-intensive stuff in there |
| 17:55.35 | muep_ | like the desktop env that raspbian has in their full images |
| 17:56.15 | Unkn-Error | I will need a DE for my Pi |
| 17:56.19 | telst4r | my NAS has only 64MB, of which 59+70MB is being used. Boo-hoo. |
| 17:56.21 | *** join/#devuan indeo (indeo@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 17:56.27 | muep_ | then it will certainly take more than 32 MB |
| 17:56.37 | KatolaZ | well.... |
| 17:56.41 | KatolaZ | it depends |
| 17:56.43 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 17:56.46 | muep_ | on that print server rpi, the used-cached amount of RAM is at 26 MB |
| 17:57.02 | KatolaZ | it depends on the DE, I mean |
| 17:57.23 | KatolaZ | you can have a pretty minimal system with just X and a window manager |
| 17:57.43 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:57.43 | KatolaZ | and still keep everything below 64MB |
| 17:57.47 | telst4r | Why go DE, use just a simple WM. |
| 17:58.23 | muep_ | and that 26 MB is after wasting two megs for avahi-daemon and another two for d-bus daemon and so on |
| 17:58.49 | telst4r | what's the purpose of avahi in the first place... |
| 17:58.58 | KatolaZ | like eating ram |
| 17:58.59 | muep_ | for other computers to find the printer automatically |
| 17:59.00 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 17:59.10 | Unkn-Error | and when I thing that my phone has 3 gb of ram, maybe 4 |
| 17:59.18 | Unkn-Error | phufff |
| 17:59.32 | muep_ | the most RAM-intensive thing on that rpi is cupsd and it is taking a bit over 6 MiB |
| 17:59.57 | Unkn-Error | 3.64 GB on my phone |
| 18:00.09 | muep_ | so it can splurge a few megs of the 228 MB on mere conveniences |
| 18:00.43 | telst4r | you can unsolder some of that excessive ram for other purposes. |
| 18:01.43 | muep_ | one interesting bit in that ps output is that ps itself was occuping more of the RAM than e.g. d-bus |
| 18:02.29 | telst4r | Ummmm... |
| 18:02.30 | Unkn-Error | from a security point of view |
| 18:02.44 | Unkn-Error | should devuan be more secure when compared with raspaberian? |
| 18:02.55 | muep_ | I would expect it to be mostly similar |
| 18:02.56 | KatolaZ | Unkn-Error: no distribution is more or less secure |
| 18:03.02 | Unkn-Error | or thay are the same? |
| 18:03.09 | muep_ | since over 99% of the software is the same |
| 18:03.11 | KatolaZ | if you have the same admin, you will have the same level of security |
| 18:03.13 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 18:03.28 | KatolaZ | mostly irrespective of the distro |
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| 18:03.59 | muep_ | pretty much all of the included software that you would expose over public internet is the same code |
| 18:04.31 | muep_ | though hm, I guess raspbian has their own kernel while devuan has basically the debian kernel? |
| 18:04.33 | telst4r | I guess he's trying to ask whether some distro have safer defaults, like "PermitRootLogin Yes" or sudo glitches |
| 18:05.07 | KatolaZ | telst4r: no default can save all asses :D |
| 18:05.43 | telst4r | so far I have found wirecutters to be the best security suite. But they come with caveats. |
| 18:11.40 | *** join/#devuan xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 18:16.21 | Unkn-Error | funny / the wirecutters joke |
| 18:16.55 | Unkn-Error | yes, I was thinking at the default settings mixed with some kind of expoits + brute force attacks |
| 18:17.33 | Unkn-Error | when I put something on the internet with port 22 open... I have like |
| 18:17.55 | Unkn-Error | 32 tries in 1 minutes for guessing username / passwd |
| 18:18.03 | telst4r | I see. I haven't stumbled upon a comprehensive study on that. |
| 18:18.13 | Unkn-Error | that is on 1 ISP |
| 18:18.22 | Unkn-Error | on the other ISP i have, there are no such attaks |
| 18:18.44 | Unkn-Error | maybe one is using some kind of IDS/IDP for internet filtering and the other one dosen't |
| 18:18.49 | telst4r | Unkn-Error, try fail2ban, changing the port and other limits |
| 18:19.16 | Unkn-Error | yep, I will need to learn / read the fail2ban documentation |
| 18:20.33 | Unkn-Error | It is so sad the fact that World of Tanks game is not working under linux |
| 18:21.30 | telst4r | Unkn-Error, also a good idea would be only white-listing certain ip ranges that you know you yourself might remotely log-in from. Like school, work or a mobile broadband. |
| 18:22.55 | Unkn-Error | ips, always change here. however I wil change the port number for ssh / nomachte |
| 18:22.58 | Unkn-Error | nomachine |
| 18:23.33 | Unkn-Error | I have a small laptop, a thinkpad which is currently running win 8.1 |
| 18:24.08 | Unkn-Error | I am thinking to make it dual-boot with linux, but with this ocasion I will reinstall the windows and upgrade to win 10 |
| 18:24.18 | telst4r | Unkn-Error, they do. but at least you could block some never-visit-countries out. Like I would block the US, since I have no business with them. |
| 18:24.29 | Unkn-Error | in the same time... I am thinking of using UEFI, instead of CSM/bios legacy |
| 18:25.09 | Unkn-Error | the problem with UEFI is the EFI partition when.. |
| 18:25.18 | Unkn-Error | I do back-up the system |
| 18:25.39 | Unkn-Error | as there is also info written in the NVRAM at the operating system install time |
| 18:26.15 | Unkn-Error | how the heck, can a dual boot sys windows+linux running under UEFI+GPT be backed up in a image? |
| 18:26.42 | muep_ | note that it will be somewhat confusing to boot unless both windows and GNU/Linux use the same boot mechanism. so either boot both through EFI or both through CSM mode |
| 18:26.42 | Unkn-Error | CloneZilla is working fine, but for clonezilla I always need to keep a bootable usb stick handy and a external hdd |
| 18:27.26 | Unkn-Error | with the CSM+MBR the backup is fine, but there is no "secureboot" |
| 18:27.49 | Unkn-Error | the problems will gonna start when I will disable csm and the hdd will be GPT |
| 18:28.04 | Unkn-Error | from a backup and restore point of view |
| 18:28.06 | muep_ | with CSM+MBR you still are not backing up your firmware settings |
| 18:28.14 | fsmithred | Unkn-Error, you'll need a special partition to use gpt with legacy boot |
| 18:28.21 | muep_ | it is not much different with EFI |
| 18:28.34 | fsmithred | >1MB unformatted, with bios_grub flag |
| 18:28.43 | Unkn-Error | I will disable legacy boot. |
| 18:28.53 | Unkn-Error | UEFI+GPT only. |
| 18:29.04 | Unkn-Error | but how do I back up after the os is installed? |
| 18:29.18 | fsmithred | doesn't the nvram stuff get mounted? |
| 18:29.35 | muep_ | the kernel exposes efi variables as a virtual filesystem |
| 18:29.35 | Unkn-Error | I do not know if or how to check the nvram stuff |
| 18:29.47 | muep_ | but it is not an actual filesystem |
| 18:29.53 | muep_ | it is just settings of the firmware |
| 18:29.56 | fsmithred | probably with efibootmgr |
| 18:30.25 | muep_ | but I do not get why it is now important to back those up while ignoring that also traditional BIOS has firmware settings which are usually not backed up anywhere |
| 18:30.30 | fsmithred | yeah, I don't think you need to mess with it. If you clone the whole drive, you should be able to dd it to another drive and have it work |
| 18:31.13 | Unkn-Error | hmm |
| 18:31.28 | Unkn-Error | I guess I will buy a second hand small HDD and make some test |
| 18:31.49 | Unkn-Error | I usually back up my stuff |
| 18:32.13 | Unkn-Error | few years back, I did a "dd" on my main hardisk |
| 18:32.14 | Unkn-Error | :)) |
| 18:32.19 | Unkn-Error | and lost some of my music |
| 18:32.23 | fsmithred | ouch |
| 18:32.26 | Unkn-Error | since then, I always do backups |
| 18:33.34 | *** join/#devuan indeo (indeo@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 18:34.42 | Unkn-Error | ok. xfce and slim is installed in Pi |
| 18:34.54 | Unkn-Error | but slim is not starting auto-magically |
| 18:35.17 | Unkn-Error | do you guys know how can slim be started automatically on devuan after reboot? |
| 18:36.38 | *** join/#devuan deb1user__ (~deb1user@c-98-195-42-121.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
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| 18:45.46 | *** join/#devuan indeo (indeo@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 18:49.37 | filipdevuan | somebody said here fedora doesnt run tracker apps, well i launched it via live dvd try it and it has 4 different tracker aps... |
| 18:49.56 | xrogaan | what do you call tracker apps? |
| 18:50.30 | filipdevuan | sorry tracker processes... trackerminer tracker-apps and two others of which i cant remember the name i lost my mint somewhere |
| 18:50.57 | muep_ | there is a tool in gnome called tracker which also tracks things, but is not a thing usually referred to as "tracker apps" |
| 18:51.21 | muep_ | AFAIK it is not expected to send the results of tracking anywhere |
| 18:51.43 | filipdevuan | im a bit confused with my laptop and OS's i feel like i wanna buy some decent but cheap PC for devuan, my laptop should have something else... but the thing i really wanna install different os and uninstall devuan but somewhat reason i can't cuz devuan is great... |
| 18:51.59 | xrogaan | filipdevuan: there are two kinds of "tracker". You have one that index your filesystem to provide you, the user, with a database of every document on your hard drive. |
| 18:52.10 | xrogaan | gives you a way to easily search for content |
| 18:52.22 | xrogaan | that's the "tracker" you are referring to. |
| 18:52.32 | filipdevuan | xrogaan i don't remember what i've done with your help that all these games did launch on devuan ;/// |
| 18:52.41 | xrogaan | the other kind is an ADS software that keep track of whatever you do or install and report it to a third party. |
| 18:52.52 | filipdevuan | i feel like reinstalling devuan and doing partitions right and then try configue everything from scratch again like i did thanks to you |
| 18:53.02 | xrogaan | what you have by default on fedora is most probably https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/Tracker |
| 18:53.22 | filipdevuan | well yeah |
| 18:53.48 | xrogaan | filipdevuan: if you reinstalled, make sur you have the firmware package installed: aptitude search firmware |
| 18:53.52 | filipdevuan | i remember that i launched diablo 2 and oblivion before i installed bumblebee linux-firmware |
| 18:54.07 | filipdevuan | and before terminal was detecting nvidia gpu |
| 18:54.21 | xrogaan | you want the base meta packages: firmware-linux |
| 18:54.24 | filipdevuan | but after i downloaded more stuff i was able to run diablo 3 and newer games but older games didnt wanna run so i gave up |
| 18:54.31 | filipdevuan | okay ;) |
| 18:54.33 | filipdevuan | cheers |
| 18:54.55 | filipdevuan | btw is there any nice cloud service available on net where i can store stuff like pictures??? would you recommend anything?? |
| 18:55.13 | xrogaan | google drive? |
| 18:55.50 | filipdevuan | does it have to be google are them all the same anyways wondering if theres any kind of open source free software blablabla cloud service |
| 18:56.22 | xrogaan | FOSS services are the one you run yourself |
| 18:56.28 | xrogaan | like owncloud |
| 18:56.31 | filipdevuan | i must move my ass to poundland and buy more DVD's to put devuan on it so i can use my pendrive xD |
| 18:57.14 | filipdevuan | okay thanx |
| 18:57.46 | filipdevuan | i may just try dropbox |
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| 18:58.59 | xrogaan | you could try https://framadrive.org but it's french. |
| 18:59.05 | muep_ | e.g. google drive can be used with free software while my impression is that with dropbox both the service and the client are proprietary |
| 18:59.58 | xrogaan | other cloud providers https://nextcloud.com/providers/ |
| 19:06.02 | filipdevuan | okay i registered to zaclys |
| 19:09.37 | filipdevuan | btw i really like default devuan desktop environment its cool but id love to use something "more beautiful" i really like gnome but it doesnt run here. iv noticed with different DE's i don't get same stuff that i get on default devuan one, which is for example set brightness, iv noticed default one works the best but maybe there's something else i could use??? |
| 19:10.31 | *** join/#devuan James1138 (~james1138@71-32-91-188.tukw.qwest.net) |
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| 19:11.52 | filipdevuan | can u confirm that all these desktop environments i can use during devuan installation work 100% properly?? |
| 19:14.03 | fsmithred | the ones in the installer will work |
| 19:15.04 | fsmithred | If you want lxde, you can install it afterward, and you might have to experiment with which polkit packages you want |
| 19:15.46 | filipdevuan | ok thx ;) |
| 19:16.00 | filipdevuan | what exactly is polkit packages?? |
| 19:16.26 | fsmithred | libraries that policykit uses |
| 19:16.32 | filipdevuan | ok cool |
| 19:16.49 | fsmithred | stuff that makes it so the user can reboot or shutdown from the DE menu |
| 19:16.55 | fsmithred | mount removable drives |
| 19:18.11 | *** join/#devuan dri__ (~dri@213.222.179.194) |
| 19:18.14 | fsmithred | if you install one if the DE from the installer iso, it will work. If you install a DE by installing its component pieces, you may need to figure out what's missing. |
| 19:18.31 | fsmithred | and if you install two different DE, there could possibly be package conflicts |
| 19:19.04 | filipdevuan | okay cool, cheers. ;). i might try something different then. but i used i think KDE and now i think im using cinammon and default one worked best for me |
| 19:19.11 | fsmithred | kde, cinnamon and lxqt use elogind; xfce and mate use consolekit |
| 19:19.51 | fsmithred | are all three desktops installed in the same system? |
| 19:20.05 | filipdevuan | oh sorry i think i use mate then not cinnamon |
| 19:20.23 | filipdevuan | i installed mate and the default one i think and i can't switch to default one before login ;P its only mate |
| 19:20.26 | filipdevuan | w8 lemme have a look |
| 19:21.18 | *** join/#devuan filipdevuan (~filipdevu@cpc77042-warw18-2-0-cust394.3-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 19:21.25 | filipdevuan | yeah i have mate running |
| 19:21.47 | fsmithred | at slim login screen, press F1 to toggle through the different desktops you can log into |
| 19:22.02 | *** join/#devuan unixman_home__ (~unixman2@216.137.211.6) |
| 19:22.17 | filipdevuan | yeah theres only mate ;D |
| 19:22.30 | fsmithred | what happened to xfce? |
| 19:23.17 | fsmithred | oh wait, when you installed, you check the box for mate and the box for default devuan desktop? |
| 19:23.23 | filipdevuan | yeah i think so |
| 19:23.42 | fsmithred | ok, that second one gives you the desktop theme and maybe a few other things |
| 19:23.52 | fsmithred | but not a full DE |
| 19:24.07 | fsmithred | I think |
| 19:24.20 | Unkn-Error | filipdevuan, Cloud service sugesstin -->> mega.co.nz 15 GB free, it was 50 GB 2 years back. |
| 19:24.42 | Unkn-Error | filipdevuan, Cloud service sugesstin -->> yandex disk - unlimited disk space for Pictures / Photo |
| 19:24.46 | Unkn-Error | as far as I remember |
| 19:25.00 | *** join/#devuan maiz (~maiz@105.101.14.172) |
| 19:25.11 | *** join/#devuan cyteen_ (~cyteen42_@9.56.7.51.dyn.plus.net) |
| 19:25.49 | filipdevuan | cheers i registered to zaclys. just i have some pics on my laptop, my phone doesnt connect to my laptop and i wanna reinstall my OS with proper partitions this time like one for OS second one for media |
| 19:25.50 | Unkn-Error | filipdevuan, what Desktop Enviroment have you used with Devuan? |
| 19:26.30 | filipdevuan | i used default one, i also installed KDE but some stuff were not running like set brightness with Fn buttons and couldnt find brightness settings which was pretty frustrating, had same issue with MATE but i did something in some conf file and now it works |
| 19:26.51 | filipdevuan | But i wanna finally install OS with media on seperate partition so i dont lose anything when reinstalling |
| 19:26.52 | Unkn-Error | I assume the default one is XFCE |
| 19:26.55 | filipdevuan | yeah |
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| 19:27.22 | filipdevuan | i may be trying different distros in the meantime, but i dont wanna lose my data all the time ;D |
| 19:27.35 | Unkn-Error | I see. |
| 19:27.50 | Unkn-Error | You could try Virtual Box |
| 19:27.57 | filipdevuan | yeah past 3 weeks i reinstalled my laptop like 10 times... |
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| 22:08.34 | filipdevuan | im cheating devuan with fedora atm :P |
| 22:08.49 | filipdevuan | i mean im cheating on devuan |
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| 22:20.47 | golinux | filipdevuan: I doubt anybody cares |
| 22:21.40 | filipdevuan | nice |
| 22:24.45 | golinux | Use whatever suits you best. That's what freedom is all about. |
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| 22:36.26 | filipdevuan | yeah well im a bit too inexperienced for devuan atm |
| 22:39.20 | NeonLicht | I've upgraded from jessie to ascii on several boxes and I'm very happy with it, exept I have a small problem with uzbl. When I run it, it works fine, but when I visit certain sites, the fonts in the status bar stop showing, and small rectangles show instead. Any pointers, please? |
| 22:43.29 | msiism | NeonLicht: what's your locale? |
| 22:44.06 | msiism | NeonLicht: does uzbl support unicode? (just as a guess) |
| 22:45.02 | msiism | filipdevuan: where are the blockers? |
| 22:45.43 | filipdevuan | what blockers? |
| 22:46.39 | NeonLicht | msiism, es_ES, but it does the same when I run it like that: LANG=C uzbl-browser. |
| 22:49.21 | msiism | NeonLicht: ok, you'd probably have to talk to the uzbl devs then and probably provide a screenshot. |
| 22:49.41 | msiism | filipdevuan: the things blocking you from using devuan? |
| 22:50.30 | NeonLicht | I guess, msiism. I'm on #uzbl, too, but I thought I'd ask here in case somebody else had the same problem. |
| 22:50.54 | aaro | NeonLicht: try the utf8 of your language |
| 22:51.04 | filipdevuan | its optimus card drivers nvidia and intel |
| 22:51.56 | NeonLicht | That's what I use, aaro, UTF for Spanish. |
| 22:52.10 | aaro | NeonLicht: es_ES.utf8 |
| 22:52.33 | filipdevuan | i managed to get them working properly with xrogaan but anyway i wanted to run windows games so thanks to him i managed to get diablo 2 and tes oblivion work properly. but then i downloaded newer drivers for diablo 3 and diablo 2 stopped working and oblivion |
| 22:52.58 | filipdevuan | so i was a bit frustrated i did fresh reinstallation and now nothing works at all and i havent got mental strentgh to configue everything again because im too dumb simply dont know how |
| 22:53.19 | msiism | filipdevuan: ok, you just lost me. (with your previous post) |
| 22:53.33 | filipdevuan | yeah xD |
| 22:53.46 | NeonLicht | Yes, aaro, that's what I use. |
| 22:54.00 | xrogaan | msiism: it's not devuan in particular |
| 22:54.05 | gnarface | filipdevuan: remember when i told you that you should have made a backup first? |
| 22:54.08 | filipdevuan | now on fedora diablo 2 doesnt work as well but im not deleting it |
| 22:54.14 | xrogaan | it's just the new environment. |
| 22:54.20 | filipdevuan | on windows 10 diablo 2 doesnt work as well |
| 22:54.44 | xrogaan | gnarface: from what I gather, I don't believe he has the disk space for backups. |
| 22:54.49 | filipdevuan | i mean i can run diablo 2 now but when i wanna play online it crashes i give up with windows games... i discovered platform called itch.io its something like steam but indie games |
| 22:54.51 | filipdevuan | im on it now |
| 22:54.58 | msiism | filipdevuan: do you know you can dual-boot different operating systems? |
| 22:55.06 | gnarface | xrogaan: he's got the disk space for a package list and a tarball of his /etc directory |
| 22:55.09 | filipdevuan | yeah of course i do know |
| 22:55.45 | filipdevuan | i dont remember how i configured everything so everything worked i should have noted everything, maybe next time |
| 22:56.15 | msiism | filipdevuan: why not try it? it give you the opportunity to run devuan, but go back to whatever for things that, atm, work "better" there. |
| 22:56.20 | filipdevuan | i got into devuan because i cared about privacy but now i dont care im fed up with privacy i just wanna have fun now |
| 22:56.24 | gnarface | filipdevuan: once you know which config files to back up you don't really have to remember everything |
| 22:57.04 | xrogaan | I'm not even sure he has to change anything. |
| 22:57.20 | filipdevuan | i had windows 10 once and then installed fedora but then couldnt detect win10 but anyway i should just get pc with single gpu for devuan if i had cash id already do it but havent got any spare change hahah :P |
| 22:57.25 | xrogaan | he install the non-free firmwares, bumbleThing and there you go. |
| 22:57.48 | msiism | filipdevuan: is there any university in your area? |
| 22:57.57 | filipdevuan | xrogaan: now i only seen legacy drivers 340 on synaptic couldnt find normal ones 370 on there |
| 22:58.12 | filipdevuan | yeah i think so theres a college |
| 22:58.22 | xrogaan | filipdevuan: check if your source list non-free repo. I believe it is basic by default. |
| 22:58.42 | filipdevuan | yeah it is |
| 22:59.01 | xrogaan | Also, how old are you? Don't go alone if you're underage. |
| 22:59.08 | msiism | filipdevuan: well, if they have an it department, find it and ask them, if they are throwing anything out. big institutions do that regularly. (i know that, because i tend to use that stuff.) |
| 22:59.31 | filipdevuan | yeah they do |
| 22:59.34 | filipdevuan | well i can always ask an e-mail |
| 22:59.39 | filipdevuan | send an e-mail* |
| 22:59.42 | msiism | right |
| 22:59.52 | filipdevuan | i mean they do have it department there :P |
| 23:00.18 | filipdevuan | im 23 years old im too shy to go to college and say: give me pc now lol |
| 23:00.43 | filipdevuan | i have old pc but i installed windows xp put into hibernate twice now my pc wont display on the screen anymore :/ |
| 23:01.11 | xrogaan | filipdevuan: nvidia-driver-bin? |
| 23:01.31 | filipdevuan | using this laptop doesnt make any sense anyway, normal pc would be much better |
| 23:01.34 | xrogaan | category: non-free/x11 |
| 23:01.41 | filipdevuan | xrogaan: sorry im not on devuan now im running fedora 28 atm ;/ |
| 23:01.49 | xrogaan | a lot of linux is just looking around and reading stuff. |
| 23:01.59 | xrogaan | oh, well, ask fedora people then :) |
| 23:02.13 | filipdevuan | ask about what? :P |
| 23:02.20 | msiism | filipdevuan: so what about that "broken" machine? is it a hardware issue or not? |
| 23:02.24 | gnarface | filipdevuan: i'm guessing you're chasing a package/driver version problem when you should be focusing harder on winecfg and winetricks |
| 23:03.10 | filipdevuan | msiism: i believe its a hardware, basically i got my pc into hibernate or suspend while using windows xp but i bought this pc preowned with ubuntu for 25 pounds on ebay |
| 23:03.33 | filipdevuan | at once i heard some beeps but second time it hibernated it beepd again and now it doesnt even beep just display doesnt detect it anymore |
| 23:04.04 | xrogaan | A 25 pounds computer doesn't boot anymore, big surprise. |
| 23:04.10 | filipdevuan | gnarface: yeah probably you're right, but xrogaan helped me to configure everything properly before now i dont remember what iv done aparat from downloading bumblebee and linux-firmware |
| 23:04.20 | filipdevuan | hahah, yeah ;P. |
| 23:04.51 | filipdevuan | it should work anyway windows xp killed it. it has 2gb ram and it was alright |
| 23:04.58 | msiism | filipdevuan: well, as long as it still beeps... |
| 23:05.04 | filipdevuan | not anymore... |
| 23:05.27 | xrogaan | it's probably all you need to do, filipdevuan, download bumblebee and linux-firmware. What we did was mostly diagnostics. |
| 23:06.09 | filipdevuan | yeah well |
| 23:06.27 | filipdevuan | but now im gonna make proper partitions, can i just delete all partitions during installation and then set one up just for OS and rest for media?? |
| 23:07.52 | msiism | filipdevuan: you can do that (whatever "media" means...). but: |
| 23:08.19 | msiism | filipdevuan: you should probably first read a bit about what partitions schemes make good sense. |
| 23:08.20 | filipdevuan | yeah like instead of installing everything on one partition i mean just to have two partitions one for OS and rest for stuff like pictures music etc. |
| 23:09.05 | msiism | filipdevuan: ok, do you sort of a picture of what the linux filesystem looks like? |
| 23:10.06 | filipdevuan | well yeah it is different than windows. and iv been thinking about that today cuz i dont know how it looks like. would the first partition be home and the second one home 2 or i dont really know ;PP |
| 23:10.44 | msiism | filipdevuan: you need to read about that first and know that structure, at least have a basic idea. |
| 23:10.55 | filipdevuan | yeah |
| 23:11.30 | msiism | http://www.tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/chap_03.html |
| 23:12.15 | msiism | filipdevuan: could as well start with chapter 1 then, i guess. |
| 23:12.25 | filipdevuan | yeah im reading now ;p |
| 23:13.27 | msiism | ok, i gotta go |
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| 23:20.51 | filipdevuan | yeah thanks ;) |
| 23:21.13 | filipdevuan | im going as well in a minute |
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