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| 00:18.45 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release | This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | off-topic conversation in #debianfork please | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
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| 02:27.59 | altker128 | Hi guys. I'm a long time Debian user , but not thrilled with systemd. However there are a lot of .DEBs out there for Debian, curious if I should expect compatability issues if I use Devuan |
| 02:30.40 | unixman_home | Use Devuan with Devuan repositories, no problem. Random .deb packages, no clue. |
| 02:35.58 | squeakypancakes | If you need extra software flatpak works regardless of init system |
| 02:38.02 | golinux | UGH! |
| 02:38.35 | ChuangTzu | Devuan is a great drop in replacement for Debian. |
| 02:39.29 | ChuangTzu | What .debs do you need that are not in the repos? |
| 02:40.00 | altker128 | ChuangTzu: It comes up randomly, I don't have a specific example. But, Zulip for example, or SoGO (the groupware software) |
| 02:40.44 | ChuangTzu | if the dependencies are in the Devuan repos and its not systemd required then it should work fine |
| 02:40.47 | altker128 | squeakypancakes: flatpak I'm guessing basically uses lxc on the backend |
| 02:40.49 | altker128 | ? |
| 02:41.06 | ChuangTzu | of course, once you start installing outside the repos YMMV |
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| 03:46.39 | squeakypancakes | flatpak uses ostree |
| 03:47.38 | golinux | flatpak is bloated poo |
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| 04:20.23 | zlg | Just wanted to congratulate you guys on the second big release. I've watched from the sidelines but have considered installing Devuan on some older hardware I just got ahold of. :) |
| 04:20.47 | zlg | Init freedom is as important as any other software freedom! |
| 04:23.27 | squeakypancakes | unless youre running on a <20gb drive you wont notice the space that flatpak takes up and it deltas the updates to reduce bandwidth |
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| 05:45.36 | golinux | squeakypancakes: That sort of rationale is one thing that's changing the the Linux landscape (and not for the better) these days. |
| 05:51.52 | squeakypancakes | I fail to see how the option of alowing smaller dev teams to target all of linux instead of one distro or having every distro repackage the app is bad. |
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| 06:15.47 | golinux | Sameness is never a good thing |
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| 08:46.08 | amarsh04 | is using the non-free Discord client - the Ubuntu 64 bit deb runs fine under Devuan once the dependencies are installed |
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| 08:58.12 | buZz | dude |
| 08:58.24 | buZz | i finally moved to ascii-backports' nvidia-driver |
| 08:58.34 | buZz | wtf man , ~30% higher score in glmark2 |
| 08:58.44 | Chanku | Hey congrats on ASCII becoming stable! |
| 09:24.21 | stuttgart | Flatpak/snap aren't the solution but I still think package management has to be unified. Distros don't really do anything different from each other when it comes to packaging, the main difference is on binary vs source-based distros and there's nothing in the way of making a package manager capable of both. |
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| 09:26.29 | stuttgart | with the way it currently is distros are doing the same work independently and wasting everyone's time |
| 09:26.48 | Chanku | Not necessarily. A unified system would make things like devuan a bit harder. |
| 09:27.09 | Chanku | Although I will note that devuan itself does use Debian packages 99% of the time, recompiling only what needs to be done. |
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| 09:28.25 | stuttgart | I'm saying most/all linux distros could use sharing the same packaging system, they could still make their own repos with their own patches if so desired. |
| 09:28.34 | KatolaZ | stuttgart: flatpak/snap are a windows-style solution |
| 09:28.35 | Chanku | Addititionally, you force a specific view of the filesystem as well |
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| 09:28.45 | KatolaZ | ship the package + the kitchen sink |
| 09:29.01 | KatolaZ | it is guaranteed to work |
| 09:29.05 | Chanku | Distros like NixOS certianly wouldn't get anything from a universal system. |
| 09:29.30 | KatolaZ | it also works on windows, after all.... |
| 09:29.40 | Chanku | Especially because their FS layout is different, and they have entirely different requirements from other Distros |
| 09:29.53 | KatolaZ | (unless it gets quite messy if you have several different versions of anything) |
| 09:30.16 | KatolaZ | bbl |
| 09:30.35 | Chanku | Further it would additionally impose certain systems onto a distro. Which means that a single person at a single distro can impose things like systemd onto everyone. |
| 09:31.29 | Chanku | Additionally, I dont' necessarily think unifiying package manage is a good, or really desired, solution in the end. |
| 09:32.15 | Chanku | and see ya KatolaZ |
| 09:33.51 | Chanku | I don't view the several different package managers as being necessarily a bad thing. People will generally chose what they end up liking. |
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| 09:49.49 | KatolaZ | Chanku: well, unless you are a big corp who wants to capitalize its linux user base |
| 09:49.58 | KatolaZ | and conquer them all :) |
| 09:51.05 | buZz | stuttgart: i like autoconf |
| 09:51.25 | buZz | someone whip me up a distro that uses just all autoconf/autotools as package management |
| 09:51.30 | buZz | like slackware, but worse |
| 09:51.33 | buZz | :) |
| 09:54.42 | KatolaZ | I think a package manager is very useful |
| 09:55.11 | KatolaZ | I simply dislike anything that presents itself as "The One True Way" |
| 09:55.51 | KatolaZ | especialli if such "way" is a good way to bloat your system more |
| 09:56.18 | buZz | just do rm -fr / every now and then to remove all the french files |
| 10:00.22 | KatolaZ | :D |
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| 12:53.30 | msiism | KatolaZ: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2182. the thing with the sources.list sounds like a bug. |
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| 13:40.01 | pl43c | Tying to boot into the ascii netinstall with efi |
| 13:40.33 | pl43c | but after selecting graphical install or install it just makes the boot selection disappear with the devuan art still there and hang |
| 13:40.54 | pl43c | I have an nvidia card so I tried adding nomodesetting but it didn't do anything |
| 13:41.40 | pl43c | is the efi installer bugged or is there something I have to do |
| 13:41.57 | pl43c | this is also under qemu kvm |
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| 13:48.00 | freem | Hello. I've got problems using cdebootstrap to bootstrap a devuan system. It says it can't validate the release, with this line: cdebootstrap --flavour=minimal /sandbox ascii http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged |
| 13:48.43 | freem | this is actually a (virtual) system on which I did the migration from debian, and reinstalled all packages after having removed /var/cache/apt/archives/* |
| 13:51.04 | freem | it seems that debootstrap, on the other hand, works. I'll play with this one for now, but I'll to check exactly what it considers as a minimal base... |
| 13:53.31 | fsmithred | pl43c, have you booted other efi isos in qemu? |
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| 15:48.43 | grillon | hi there, I would like to launch remote x app without ssh forwarding but I always have can't open display |
| 15:49.26 | KatolaZ | grillon: how can you laungh a remote X app without ssh forwarding? |
| 15:49.47 | KatolaZ | (I mean, you can, but normally X11 won't listen on tcp connections by default) |
| 15:50.02 | grillon | I want my X server to listen |
| 15:50.18 | grillon | I took off -nolisten tcp |
| 15:50.21 | KatolaZ | grillon: shake it |
| 15:50.22 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 15:51.05 | furrywolf | xhost +whatever, where whatever is the proper mask you need to add to allow the connections |
| 15:51.14 | grillon | I did xhost+ too |
| 15:51.28 | grillon | so normaly theres no auth |
| 15:52.00 | furrywolf | then make sure the DISPLAY variable is appropriately set |
| 15:52.14 | grillon | my DISPLAY is ok |
| 15:52.33 | grillon | I have read port 6000 should be listening it's not |
| 15:52.39 | furrywolf | if your xhost is ok, and your display is ok, it's obviously working fine, so there's nothing to ask about. :P |
| 15:53.20 | grillon | it's not ok |
| 15:53.45 | grillon | on which port X should listen? |
| 15:54.18 | grillon | I have read it : https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-server-73/can%27t-open-display-no-protocol-specified-using-gdm-4175462031/ |
| 15:54.51 | grillon | and launch X manually to be sure to avoid authentication but it still does not work |
| 15:55.05 | grillon | as X is not listening outside of localhost |
| 15:56.06 | furrywolf | just for curiosity, what use case do you have where you need remote X, but don't want it over ssh? |
| 15:57.12 | grillon | I want it to be fast. I want to do a private network cluster and use each machine for different task |
| 15:57.24 | grillon | all these machines would use the same display |
| 15:57.59 | grillon | I think about vlan for that but. To start simple I have a simple network for my fist iteration |
| 15:58.30 | furrywolf | have you tried -listen tcp? |
| 15:58.38 | grillon | lol |
| 15:58.41 | grillon | let's try :p |
| 16:01.03 | grillon | it works! |
| 16:01.13 | furrywolf | yay! :) |
| 16:01.27 | furrywolf | so it's not just a default command line option now, it's apparantly default somewhere in the code too. |
| 16:01.28 | grillon | every where I have seen take off -nolisten tcp |
| 16:01.39 | grillon | thank you furrywolf!!! |
| 16:01.56 | grillon | seems so |
| 16:02.43 | furrywolf | which means somewhere changed default behavior in a way that breaks things, and probably didn't tell anyone... which is, sadly, all too common. |
| 16:02.46 | furrywolf | someone |
| 16:04.07 | furrywolf | heh, googling finds a few bugs filed about this, the first one I checked was closed WONTFIX. |
| 16:04.27 | grillon | what is this wontfix bug |
| 16:04.46 | furrywolf | that the default behavior of xorg changed |
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| 16:05.32 | furrywolf | looks like xorg 1.17 changed from listening on tcp by default to not listening by default. |
| 16:06.43 | furrywolf | https://access.redhat.com/errata/RHBA-2016:1402 redhat released a patched version to restore the old behavior due to bug reports |
| 16:08.11 | furrywolf | however, realisticly, not listening on tcp is probably a sane default these days... I haven't seen non-ssh remote X in a very long time. |
| 16:08.21 | furrywolf | and X is not known for its security. |
| 16:08.30 | furrywolf | probably better to have it not listening anywhere |
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| 16:09.13 | grillon | I think you're right. that's why I want to use it on a private network |
| 16:09.35 | grillon | if it's not significantly faster I'll give up |
| 16:09.51 | furrywolf | heh, I remember waaaaaaay back when, in a lab of sun boxes, the fun of opening things on other people's xservers... :P |
| 16:11.13 | grillon | :) |
| 16:11.41 | grillon | seems the problem of nolisten tcp is every where now I have the problem with lxdm :( |
| 16:12.06 | grillon | the default is launching X with nolisten and it seems it cannot be overriden |
| 16:12.26 | grillon | a default behaviour is a thing but why I'm forced :( |
| 16:13.39 | furrywolf | you can also set it in the xorg.conf somewhere, which will work if the dm simply isn't specifying anything and leaving x to use its default, but probably won't override if the dm is explicitly adding it to the command line. |
| 16:13.51 | furrywolf | if your dm is sticking stuff on the xorg command line and not letting you change it, that's a bug in the dm. |
| 16:15.32 | grillon | sorry it's ok, it was an old bug corrected :p |
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| 16:20.54 | furrywolf | in that case, glad to help. :) |
| 16:21.21 | grillon | thank you furrywolf |
| 16:21.49 | msiism | https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2126. if anyone has ideas on this, i'd be happy to hear them. |
| 16:22.35 | grillon | now I have a problem with auth, I have transferer my .Xauthority file to the xclient machine but I still have can't open display :( |
| 16:22.53 | grillon | it work when I desactivate auth |
| 16:22.59 | grillon | works |
| 16:24.09 | furrywolf | can't help there... I've never played with X's auth stuff |
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| 16:37.45 | freem | msiism, what do you have in /etc/rc0.d ? |
| 16:38.04 | xrogaan | after an aptitude update, we sometimes get this: Status: 77133 (+9) new. Is there a way to know what package are new? |
| 16:38.43 | freem | xrogaan, you can just start aptitude without option, it's send you to the ncurses interface, which shows which ones are new. |
| 16:39.51 | freem | I think you might also use the search option for that, but I don't know for sure since I use aptitude on commandline very rarely. |
| 16:44.18 | msiism | freem: quite some stuff. shall i paste that somewhere? |
| 16:44.58 | freem | msiism, is there is a file named SXXntp, or something like this? (XX being a number) |
| 16:45.28 | xrogaan | aptitude shows all non installed packaged as "new" |
| 16:45.44 | msiism | freem: no, there isn't. those files all start with K on my system. |
| 16:45.57 | freem | xrogaan, did you changed your sources.list recently? |
| 16:46.03 | xrogaan | no |
| 16:46.11 | xrogaan | i'm interested in the +9 |
| 16:46.30 | freem | msiism, I guess it would have been too easy... |
| 16:48.32 | freem | xrogaan, usually, I ask aptitude to forgot which packages are new, which is something that can be configured to be made automatically. You may have more luck with "aptitude search '~N'", but I think it will show you the same list as the ncurses interface. |
| 16:49.22 | xrogaan | indeed |
| 16:49.51 | xrogaan | alright, marked as not new |
| 16:50.09 | xrogaan | thanks |
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| 17:03.42 | unixman_home | To follow-up to X over ssh being "slow". I don't see "slow" when it is on a local LAN. It is fast enough that I have no complaints. No remote X via SSH over ADSL, yeah, that can be a bit slow. |
| 17:04.10 | unixman_home | s/No remote/Now remote/ |
| 17:04.41 | furrywolf | I did vnc over dialup once... |
| 17:05.02 | unixman_home | furrywolf, you have my sympathy! |
| 17:05.20 | freem | imagine what it would be nowadays, with all the fancy graphics :D |
| 17:05.45 | unixman_home | What are these "fancy graphics" of which you speak? :P |
| 17:06.21 | furrywolf | doesn't like excessive graphics |
| 17:06.24 | unixman_home | In my world "fancy graphics" is Xfce instead of fluxbox. :) |
| 17:06.44 | freem | the stuff most users use, root window decorations, rounded borders, stuff like this |
| 17:06.47 | furrywolf | god, my android phone... I FUCKING HATE ANIMATION. every single god damn fucking thing fades, slides, or otherwise wastes time while you wait for it to do something you don't want it to do. |
| 17:07.10 | freem | but I think my i3 and terminals would be perfectly fine. |
| 17:07.23 | unixman_home | freem, anyone trying to run that crap over a network connection should be whipped. :) |
| 17:07.27 | furrywolf | I do not want anything to fade, slide, expand, or do any other effect. just do what I tell it to do, as quickly as it can. |
| 17:07.49 | freem | forgot about smartphones then, furrywolf. |
| 17:07.58 | freem | forget* |
| 17:08.20 | furrywolf | oh look! we have a nice fast cpu! let's intentionally add a 1-second delay between everything the user can do by animating what the user just tried to do! |
| 17:08.33 | furrywolf | that way we can make the nice fancy cpu even slower than old things! |
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| 17:09.52 | unixman_home | Hmm, maybe we can discuss phones in #debianfork. Before the IRC gods become angry with us. ;) |
| 17:10.07 | furrywolf | you mean the irc goddess? :P |
| 17:10.19 | unixman_home | Well, yeh. :) |
| 17:14.12 | pl43c | fsmithred: yeah I boot windows freebsd and another linux distro with efi |
| 17:14.30 | pl43c | the netinstall medium just isn't working |
| 17:14.47 | pl43c | checked the shasum and it matches |
| 17:15.02 | pl43c | got it over https so I'm not sure that was needed |
| 17:15.10 | freem | hum... any idea how dpkg-reconfigure console-data would not persist after reboot? |
| 17:15.33 | golinux | LOL! |
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| 17:21.11 | fsmithred | pl43c, I'll try it |
| 17:21.55 | pl43c | not sure if the nvidia card I passthrough is causing the issue |
| 17:22.12 | pl43c | I doubt it as debian doesn't ship the nonfree drivers |
| 17:23.44 | pl43c | and the nonfree drivers don't display anything until X loads under kvm |
| 17:24.10 | fsmithred | so far, all I'm seeing is a broken boot screen |
| 17:24.27 | fsmithred | ah, I hit ENTER and the installer started |
| 17:24.43 | pl43c | so press enter twice? |
| 17:25.07 | fsmithred | counting... |
| 17:25.29 | fsmithred | just once |
| 17:26.04 | fsmithred | I'm not using the exact same iso as you. |
| 17:26.44 | pl43c | I'm using devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso |
| 17:26.51 | pl43c | which one are you using |
| 17:27.11 | fsmithred | rc0 from a couple days before the release |
| 17:27.40 | fsmithred | downloading now |
| 17:27.46 | fsmithred | 10 minutes |
| 17:27.54 | fsmithred | 15 |
| 17:28.06 | fsmithred | brb |
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| 17:45.06 | filipdevuan | is devuan GNU free? |
| 17:45.38 | msiism | filipdevuan: it's not free of GNU, if that's what you mean. |
| 17:46.05 | xrogaan | no gnu were killed in the making of devuan |
| 17:46.32 | msiism | filipdevuan: but you probably want to know of it's 100% free according to GNU/FSF standards. no, it's not. |
| 17:46.46 | filipdevuan | oh okay |
| 17:47.05 | filipdevuan | ok thanx :) |
| 17:47.19 | msiism | filipdevuan: but the issue is being discussed. |
| 17:47.31 | filipdevuan | where? |
| 17:47.44 | msiism | devuan-dev mailing list |
| 17:48.00 | msiism | you should be able to view the archive online. |
| 17:48.03 | fsmithred | we have a blob-free kernel, same (exactly) as debian |
| 17:48.18 | fsmithred | but we don't hide non-free from you or prevent you from using it |
| 17:48.45 | filipdevuan | so gnu/fsf standards OS's prevent you from using non free software? |
| 17:48.50 | freem | the problem is explained by the FSF here: https://www.gnu.org/distros/common-distros.html (search for Debian, the Devuan's situation is probably the same) |
| 17:49.00 | fsmithred | libre kernel prevents use of non-free firmware |
| 17:49.38 | fsmithred | that's not required for fsf approval, but I think the fact that we tell you where the non-free repo is might disqualify us |
| 17:53.52 | filipdevuan | ok right |
| 17:54.48 | fsmithred | pl43c, official netinstall iso works, too. I did notice that it doesn't boot if I do it over ssh. |
| 17:56.12 | freem | filipdevuan, also, some stuff produced by the FSF are not considered free by Debian, and so probably Devuan (like, gdb's documentation IIRC). So, basically, Debian's point of view and FSF's are not 100% compatible. |
| 17:56.42 | msiism | filipdevuan: also, including non-free wifi drivers because they may be needed to install on some hardware, is against the GNUish notion of freedom. |
| 17:56.42 | pl43c | fsmithred: odd wonder why it's not working for me |
| 17:57.46 | fsmithred | qemu-system-x86_64 -enable-kvm -bios /usr/share/ovmf/OVMF.fd -m 512 -cdrom devuan_ascii_2.0.0_amd64_netinst.iso -soundhw hda -smp cores=2,threads=2 |
| 17:58.16 | filipdevuan | shit |
| 17:58.40 | fsmithred | ? |
| 18:02.07 | pl43c | fsmithred: it works with a spice server |
| 18:02.12 | pl43c | and removing the nvida |
| 18:02.18 | filipdevuan | i also wonder whats exactly systemd, i just wonder if its 100% true that there are open processes in background that track your activity. i know that probably theres ME in my processor however i can't help it |
| 18:02.22 | pl43c | guess I'll add the nvidia back in after the install |
| 18:02.31 | fsmithred | ok, I guess that makes sense - nvidia is good for black screen |
| 18:03.01 | pl43c | https://www.redhat.com/archives/vfio-users/2018-May/msg00025.html |
| 18:03.10 | pl43c | yeah I had discovered this not too long ago |
| 18:03.30 | pl43c | didn't know certain versions of nouveau didn't produce output at all under kvm lol |
| 18:04.26 | msiism | filipdevuan: "As it turns out, most people donât even know what systemd is. I develop uselessd, and I donât either, really. At least, I cannot think of a concise explanation that properly conveys systemdâs scope." (http://uselessd.darknedgy.net/ProSystemdAntiSystemd/) :D |
| 18:05.03 | freem | filipdevuan, systemd do have processes in background to know if it have to start, stop, restart, etc a daemon, but I really doubt it spies user's activity to send it anywhere. |
| 18:06.27 | freem | anyway, there is way simpler ways to spie on someone using traditional linux desktop distributions: ask stuff to Xorg. |
| 18:06.28 | filipdevuan | i remember i used fedora for few days and i enjoyed however i havent enjoyed view of some tracker processes like tracker.miner etc. i was like what the heck is tracker.miner or other trackers |
| 18:07.31 | freem | I doubt fedora installs crypto miners, really. I'd say you installed something nasty, that did it. Or clicked on the wrong website. |
| 18:08.20 | msiism | filipdevuan: there are still some trackers to enjoy in Devuan, e.g., milkytracker, goattracker or schism. (no, it's not a joke, even though it is, kind of.) |
| 18:13.44 | filipdevuan | freem i am not sure but you may be right |
| 18:13.59 | filipdevuan | oh god those damn trackers ;P |
| 18:17.43 | xrogaan | the GNU philosophy is nice on paper. But in effect I want to be able to access my stuff without needing to hack my machine. |
| 18:19.02 | xrogaan | so I'll use the non-free firmware. |
| 18:19.49 | filipdevuan | i really like gnome desktop and during devuan installation i can't really choose it |
| 18:19.57 | freem | ok, so, dpkg-reconfigure console-data does it's job, but it seems something should add "loadkeys /etc/console/boottime.kmap.gz" somewhere. I probably am forgetting something trivial... |
| 18:20.55 | msiism | filipdevuan: that's because it's so tightly coupled with systemd. |
| 18:20.57 | freem | filipdevuan, IIRC it's possible, but I tend to only go expert mode. Maybe the question is not enabled in the mode you used. |
| 18:21.27 | filipdevuan | oh damn |
| 18:21.47 | xrogaan | yeah, gnome forces systemd. It's silly and a reason why systemd is bad. |
| 18:21.48 | filipdevuan | yeah ubuntu or fedora environments were always like exotic and nice to me |
| 18:21.49 | freem | msiism, are you sure gnome depends on systemd? I doubt it, I'm almost certain to have seen it in void or in some *BSD systems, which are *not* using systemd. |
| 18:22.26 | msiism | freem: then these distros apparently bothered rebuilding the whole thing. |
| 18:22.28 | xrogaan | filipdevuan: if you want to read more https://wiki.debian.org/Debate/initsystem/systemd |
| 18:23.30 | freem | would make sense to rebuild. But if a simple compilation option have to be provided, we can't honestly say that gnome depends on systemd, right? |
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| 18:23.55 | freem | maybe the Debian's build, maybe the fedora's build, but not the project itself. |
| 18:24.56 | freem | I'm seeing a "task-gnome-desktop" in aptitude here. |
| 18:25.18 | msiism | freem: you could try it. i've been told it doesn't work. |
| 18:25.25 | freem | I don't really gnome, so I won't try it, but filipdevuan can probably install it |
| 18:25.39 | freem | thanks, but I'm perfectly happy with my i3 :) |
| 18:26.01 | xrogaan | gnome is being developed with systemd in mind. |
| 18:26.34 | msiism | apt-rdepends says it depends on libpam-systemd |
| 18:27.08 | xrogaan | whole reason this exists: https://github.com/dantrell/gentoo-project-gnome-without-systemd |
| 18:28.23 | msiism | xrogaan: ok, that's a neat listing |
| 18:28.45 | msiism | also quite funny |
| 18:29.00 | filipdevuan | goddamn why nice gnome has to be dodgy systemd |
| 18:29.01 | freem | interesting readings |
| 18:29.27 | msiism | filipdevuan: maybe gnome is not so nice after all. |
| 18:30.23 | filipdevuan | well menu bar reminds me of windows :( |
| 18:31.01 | xrogaan | well, you know ... https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/nautilus/commit/3a22ed5b8e3bbc1c59ff3069ee79755168754916 |
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| 18:31.55 | msiism | filipdevuan: well, xp and 95 weren't so bad, as far as the gui goes, were they? 95 even serves as an orientation for some more or less prominent window managers in the linux/unix sphere. |
| 18:31.56 | freem | filipdevuan, which windows? |
| 18:32.51 | freem | btw, if I had to work anew with a stacking window manager, I'll go for lxde or lxqt, not gnome |
| 18:33.36 | msiism | freem: the window manager of lxde is called openbox (i just always have to say that.) |
| 18:34.07 | msiism | and it's not actually "part of" lxde in a strict sense. |
| 18:35.12 | freem | true. |
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| 18:35.27 | filipdevuan | 98 and win 10 |
| 18:35.33 | filipdevuan | i loved windows xp to be fair :( |
| 18:35.51 | filipdevuan | so many nice stuff were created for windows xp |
| 18:36.14 | freem | then I think you should take a look at simpler DEs than gnome. |
| 18:36.37 | msiism | apropos window managers: here's the canoncial list: https://www.gilesorr.com/wm/table.html. also has a good sense of humor to it, though i can't say if it's intentional. |
| 18:49.25 | filipdevuan | i wish people on various website stopped posting youtube videos. oh i get on a website about some linux distro. contact me: xx@gmail.com. How to install: *youtube video* while google is my number 1 in my "i avoid" list :P |
| 19:00.57 | xrogaan | wow, lxde looks super old |
| 19:02.12 | xrogaan | it is ugly. |
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| 19:06.31 | feeee3 | all: hello |
| 19:07.05 | feeee3 | can anyone help with cuda toolkit instalation on ASCII? |
| 19:07.26 | feeee3 | ...please :) |
| 19:07.56 | feeee3 | I always stop at g++-4.9 instalation |
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| 19:25.25 | minnesotags | I'm pretty satisfied using i3WM. It would be nice if application frames and borders were a bit "prettier", though. |
| 19:26.51 | xrogaan | what is cuda? Isn't that nvidia tech? |
| 19:26.59 | fsmithred | xrogaan, it looks better if you make the desktop icons smaller |
| 19:27.24 | xrogaan | cuda seems to be a nvidia blackbox. |
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| 20:09.29 | xrogaan | do I need wicd if I only have a wired connexion? |
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| 20:10.52 | msiism | xrogaan: no. but you still might want it. it's not only for wifi connections, is it? |
| 20:13.55 | xrogaan | I mean, do I need a network manager at all? |
| 20:14.39 | msiism | xrogaan: you can manage your network interfaces via /etc/network/interfaces instaed. |
| 20:14.49 | freem | xrogaan, no, you can also just configure /etc/network/interfaces, or do it by hand. |
| 20:14.50 | msiism | also wifi. |
| 20:15.34 | xrogaan | i only have wired, so the "extra" bit is of no concern for me. |
| 20:15.55 | msiism | xrogaan: and you're using wicd? |
| 20:16.09 | xrogaan | no, it's installed by default. |
| 20:16.24 | msiism | so, it's installed but you are not using it? |
| 20:16.45 | xrogaan | I have no idea how it's supposed to work. |
| 20:17.09 | msiism | xrogaan: what do you want to do? |
| 20:17.16 | xrogaan | I didn't configure the thing, so I don't know if it's necessary for my network. |
| 20:17.35 | xrogaan | Well, do I need it? If not, I remove it. |
| 20:17.41 | freem | you don't need it. |
| 20:17.49 | msiism | xrogaan: does it work? |
| 20:17.50 | freem | but, you need to know before how to setup a network |
| 20:18.03 | xrogaan | I don't know if it works, it's just there. |
| 20:18.36 | msiism | xrogaan: ok, then it supposedly works. so, why remove it? |
| 20:19.07 | xrogaan | because it's an extra piece running on my computer, and if it does nothing then it has no use? |
| 20:19.28 | msiism | the thing is that, it's not like these network managers in desktops are just frontends to the management via /etc/network/interfaces |
| 20:19.49 | msiism | you have to decide for either the one or the other. |
| 20:20.23 | freem | yep, ifupdown and the network managers can not work on the same system. |
| 20:20.30 | msiism | using /etc/network/interface is more or less a pain to use, imo. (i use it...) |
| 20:21.09 | msiism | so, just as an idea: if wicd work for yxou, which it seems to do, you're probably better off staying with it. |
| 20:21.19 | freem | a pain? I'd say it's easy, especially when you play with different network, some without dhcpd |
| 20:21.52 | msiism | freem: but certainly more work than using a working wicd. |
| 20:22.26 | freem | probably, yes. Better control on stuff implies learning stuff and doing a bit more work. |
| 20:23.04 | xrogaan | wicd show "backend = external" in the manager config |
| 20:23.26 | xrogaan | there is nothing in the config, actually. Everything is disabled. |
| 20:23.42 | xrogaan | so to None or False |
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| 20:24.36 | msiism | hm... i'm not using wicd, so i can't say if this is a problem. |
| 20:24.47 | freem | you should at least read some doc on /etc/network/interfaces (it's man, maybe) before trying to remove stuff related to network. And be sure to keep a dhcpcd and ifupdown. Or learn how to use the ip-* commands. |
| 20:25.07 | freem | Just in case removing wicd breaks your connection. |
| 20:25.20 | xrogaan | apparently, dhcp is magic and my interfaces is just fine :P |
| 20:27.26 | xrogaan | who needs network managers when you have dhcp, right? |
| 20:28.11 | freem | network managers are dhcp's clients. |
| 20:29.26 | freem | ifupdown (the tool that uses /etc/network/interfaces) is a network manager, in practice. It's lower level compared to other ones, and have no GUI frontend (to my knowledge) but it still manages the network semi-automatically. |
| 20:29.44 | freem | (and only at boot time) |
| 20:29.59 | xrogaan | who needs GUI?! |
| 20:30.22 | xrogaan | A true linux warrior input data in raw binary through the front panel. |
| 20:31.08 | freem | well, we'll see the day you need to setup some WiFi client with captor portals :) |
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| 20:31.35 | freem | wpa is easy, but I don't remember how I did that, if I ever succeded. |
| 20:32.05 | msiism | xrogaan: what's raw binary? |
| 20:32.56 | xrogaan | msiism: think assembly, but even closer to the hardware. |
| 20:33.08 | MinceR | machine code |
| 20:33.28 | msiism | why is it raw if it's already binary? |
| 20:34.15 | fsmithred | binary like 0 and 1? |
| 20:34.29 | msiism | i guess so |
| 20:34.39 | xrogaan | > |
| 20:34.39 | xrogaan | True machine code is a stream of raw, usually binary, data. A programmer coding in "machine code" normally codes instructions and data in a more readable form such as decimal, octal, or hexadecimal which is translated to internal format by a program called a loader or toggled into the computer's memory from a front panel. |
| 20:34.47 | xrogaan | from wikipedia |
| 20:35.11 | fsmithred | toggled! |
| 20:35.12 | msiism | so binary is raw. ok. |
| 20:35.32 | xrogaan | 10001011 < this is also binary |
| 20:36.55 | fsmithred | 278? |
| 20:38.01 | xrogaan | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rf6oFSEdbKI |
| 20:38.25 | xrogaan | > Hello World (Assemblers, Considered Harmful?!) |
| 20:38.31 | msiism | prefers bash to binary |
| 20:39.01 | freem | what about gray binary? |
| 20:42.37 | xrogaan | some dude at the start believed assemblers to be harmful, because it would facilitate stuff and keep you from learning the memory addresses of your machine. |
| 20:44.28 | freem | what would he say, seing that now entire softwares are written nodejs and electron... |
| 20:47.16 | xrogaan | he wouldn't care because, like stallman, he wouldn't use nor see those. |
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| 21:33.13 | aitor | hi |
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| 21:39.12 | aitor | i've sent a message to the gnuetertics.org |
| 21:39.24 | aitor | just a greeting |
| 21:45.20 | msiism | i just realized i've never checked their website. interesting project. |
| 21:46.58 | aitor | yes :) |
| 21:48.49 | msiism | i've done community radio in the past (though no larger part of the community seemed to notice) |
| 21:52.47 | aitor | the founder seems to be a bit shy |
| 21:54.08 | msiism | what's founder in spanish? |
| 21:54.30 | aitor | fundador |
| 21:55.21 | msiism | and Diseñador and Desarrollador? what do these mean? |
| 21:55.45 | aitor | the person who started the project, better than Creator |
| 21:57.07 | msiism | both mean the same then? |
| 21:57.56 | aitor | msiism: you have spanish setxkbmap! |
| 21:58.08 | aitor | you have the ñ! |
| 21:58.36 | msiism | aitor: no, i just copied that form the website. but i could do it with my keboard setup as well, i guess. :) |
| 21:59.54 | aitor | cheat :) |
| 22:02.22 | msiism | ok, it doesn't work... |
| 22:06.55 | aitor | i'm still waiting for the answer comming from gnuetertics.org, i await eagerly |
| 22:06.55 | filipdevuan | iv downloaded kde plasma once and it was so weird |
| 22:08.33 | aitor | msiism == gnu_srs ? |
| 22:12.55 | msiism | aitor: no. |
| 22:13.19 | golinux | LOL! aitor always good for a chuckle |
| 22:14.43 | aitor | hehehe... |
| 22:17.48 | aitor | 00:25, bye :) |
| 22:18.04 | aitor | see you |
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| 22:47.24 | xrogaan | what is gnutertics? |
| 22:50.31 | underd0g | gnuetertics.org |
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| 22:54.25 | underd0g | what I don't understand is , why is zeronet handling firefox calls ? |
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| 23:32.44 | *** join/#devuan logo4poop (61464653@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.70.70.83) |
| 23:33.55 | logo4poop | hey! i have a little problem with ASCII 2.0.0. When i am at 12% at de |
| 23:33.57 | logo4poop | oops |
| 23:34.09 | logo4poop | Delect and install software |
| 23:34.20 | logo4poop | my screen just freezes |
| 23:34.27 | logo4poop | anyone kenow the fix? |
| 23:35.23 | *** join/#devuan dog_ (~underd0g@89-201-168-75.dsl.optinet.hr) |
| 23:35.31 | gnarface | how sure are you that it actually froze? did you try alt+f4 (no it's not a joke) |
| 23:36.30 | gnarface | there could have been a number of reasons but without more evidence i can't tell you much |
| 23:37.04 | gnarface | it may simply appear frozen if your bandwidth is being throttled down to a trickle |
| 23:37.17 | gnarface | but in that case you should be able to pull up a different virtual terminal to see |
| 23:37.28 | logo4poop | its fully frozen |
| 23:37.55 | logo4poop | i have tried a few times |
| 23:38.03 | logo4poop | also it said it installed discover |
| 23:38.07 | gnarface | is it always at 12% that it freezes exactly? |
| 23:38.16 | gnarface | or does it just freeze at random places after it starts installing? |
| 23:38.45 | logo4poop | yup |
| 23:38.49 | logo4poop | always 12 |
| 23:39.03 | gnarface | hmmm. very strange |
| 23:39.16 | logo4poop | i believe i saw a old debian post about it |
| 23:39.18 | gnarface | kinda like you're running out of ram or disk space, but i'd expect an error |
| 23:39.24 | gnarface | what did the debian post say about it? |
| 23:39.35 | logo4poop | whats the mininum needed? |
| 23:39.47 | logo4poop | i would think it would be less than 4gb |
| 23:39.55 | gnarface | it's less |
| 23:40.03 | logo4poop | so it should work imo |
| 23:40.23 | gnarface | it definitely should |
| 23:40.35 | *** join/#devuan logo4poop_ (61464653@gateway/web/freenode/ip.97.70.70.83) |
| 23:40.35 | gnarface | what did the debian post say about it? might it have said to use acpi=off? |
| 23:40.49 | logo4poop_ | lemme link you to the post |
| 23:41.25 | logo4poop_ | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=794410 |
| 23:42.06 | logo4poop_ | looks like something to do with realtek drivers |
| 23:42.26 | logo4poop_ | i thought i had realtek only for ethernet tho |
| 23:43.10 | logo4poop_ | that guy is using uefi tho i am just using legacy |
| 23:43.16 | gnarface | hmmm. interesting |
| 23:43.39 | gnarface | are you able to complete the install if you don't select that networking device during install? |
| 23:43.52 | logo4poop_ | idk |
| 23:43.53 | gnarface | it may be possible to fix after your first boot |
| 23:44.02 | logo4poop_ | i want to have internet tho |
| 23:44.18 | logo4poop_ | how hard is it to set it up? |
| 23:44.21 | gnarface | i'm not suggesting that you'd go without it |
| 23:44.45 | gnarface | it is no harder to set up after install than during it. |
| 23:44.49 | logo4poop_ | ok |
| 23:45.07 | logo4poop_ | could you explain to me how to do it? |
| 23:45.20 | logo4poop_ | ill try to reinstall |
| 23:45.30 | logo4poop_ | hopefully i dont have to use ethernet |
| 23:45.37 | logo4poop_ | as i have no cord with me |
| 23:45.51 | gnarface | it would be a lot easier for you to use ethernet |
| 23:46.01 | logo4poop_ | ugh |
| 23:46.13 | gnarface | wifi is buggy |
| 23:46.20 | logo4poop_ | i really dont want to |
| 23:46.42 | gnarface | you could use ethernet just for the install but then switch to wifi afterwards |
| 23:46.48 | fsmithred | are you using netinstall or dvd? |
| 23:46.48 | gnarface | that would make your life a lot easier |
| 23:47.20 | logo4poop_ | dvd |
| 23:47.31 | logo4poop_ | i dont have a cord sadly |
| 23:47.34 | fsmithred | so you could install without mirror, without network |
| 23:47.48 | fsmithred | then install the firmware afterward - it's in /firmware in the iso |
| 23:47.57 | gnarface | fsmithred: (the bug report from debian that he linked claims the problem is exhibited by the dvd and netinstallers both - it appears at first glance to be a hardware allergy to the wifi driver somehow) |
| 23:48.36 | fsmithred | were they using a debian iso that had the firmware on it? |
| 23:49.06 | logo4poop_ | i did dvd-1 |
| 23:49.47 | gnarface | hmmmm |
| 23:50.01 | gnarface | none of debian's disks have the firmware |
| 23:50.06 | gnarface | if i recall |
| 23:50.16 | logo4poop_ | should i try withuefi maybe? |
| 23:50.30 | gnarface | and one person mentions that it happens to them with wifi OR ethernet :( |
| 23:50.31 | filipdevuan | are there thunders in cambridge?? |
| 23:51.11 | logo4poop_ | one person said turning off acpi worked |
| 23:51.19 | fsmithred | cambridge, massachusetts? might be thunder there right now |
| 23:51.31 | gnarface | logo4poop_: try it |
| 23:51.40 | logo4poop_ | ok |
| 23:51.50 | gnarface | logo4poop_: that basically just disables power saving |
| 23:52.03 | logo4poop_ | ok |
| 23:52.09 | gnarface | it was known to cause all kinds of issues historically |
| 23:52.50 | gnarface | if you can complete the install without it, you may be able to fix it with an upgraded kernel later |
| 23:53.06 | gnarface | or maybe just a updated firmware |
| 23:53.17 | logo4poop_ | btw it does the same with gui aswell |
| 23:53.23 | fsmithred | newer kernel is needed? |
| 23:54.20 | logo4poop_ | btw why is it even installing discover |
| 23:54.33 | logo4poop_ | i am using quadcomm wifi thing |
| 23:54.42 | gnarface | fsmithred: unclear - people are reporting that disabling acpi and achi worked, as well as just using firmware |
| 23:55.19 | gnarface | logo4poop_: you could do a minimal install too, just don't install anything until afterwards. that makes it easier for you to control what you get. |
| 23:55.27 | fsmithred | logo4poop_, how new is this hardware? |
| 23:55.49 | logo4poop_ | 3 years maybe? |
| 23:56.10 | fsmithred | ok, maybe you don't need a newer kernel |
| 23:56.38 | fsmithred | 1+ for minimal install |
| 23:57.04 | t3chn0 | hi, i have a query: according to https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2184&action=new if i were to install ascii-backports would the edit of sources.list consist in adding: |
| 23:57.06 | logo4poop_ | i do not have a other computer with me rn |
| 23:57.18 | t3chn0 | deb http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii-backports main |
| 23:57.18 | t3chn0 | deb-src http://packages.devuan.org/devuan ascii-backports main |
| 23:57.19 | t3chn0 | ? |
| 23:57.47 | fsmithred | t3chn0, don't use packages.devuan.org for ascii - use deb.devuan.org |
| 23:58.23 | fsmithred | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main |
| 23:58.29 | t3chn0 | fsmithred, thanks |
| 23:58.32 | fsmithred | note that it's /merged |
| 23:58.32 | logo4poop_ | hopefully devuan is worth it |
| 23:58.38 | t3chn0 | yes |