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| 00:20.09 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-06-09): ASCII 2.0.0 https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-stable-announce-060818 || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release | This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | off-topic conversation in #debianfork please | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
| 00:20.10 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:21.04 | dak | hrm |
| 00:21.34 | dak | omg if you cant remember apt-get install openrc you shouldnt be using linux |
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| 00:51.28 | fsmithred | dak, the trickier command to remember is the one that changes all the links in the rc directories. |
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| 02:13.52 | Acacia | Oh. I assumed changing the init system wasn't that easy |
| 02:20.15 | gnarface | well it's a lot less easy if the init system is systemd. that's why this distro exists. i can't claim i've tried switching to openrc myself though. you might still have to take an extra step. |
| 02:20.40 | gnarface | it really MIGHT be that easy though |
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| 02:23.15 | Acacia | I switched to devuan because I had systemd break on me 3 times whereas other init systems never failed |
| 02:23.30 | Acacia | but this really puts the "init freedom" thing into perspective |
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| 02:38.45 | fsmithred | I haven't used openrc, but I've installed it a couple of times for testing. The transition was smooth and easy. |
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| 02:41.35 | AlexLikeRock | wat about GITLab ar over AZURE ? |
| 02:50.51 | gnarface | Acacia: yea, swapping an init system shouldn't cripple the whole system. that was a new feature of systemd. previously, everything was designed to play nice together. |
| 02:51.41 | gnarface | it didn't always work, mind you, but that is still lightyears away from what systemd does |
| 02:51.49 | gnarface | on purpose |
| 02:55.31 | xrogaan | Firefox 60 ESR is way faster than the crap that is available by default. I don't understand how people can stand 52 ESR. |
| 02:57.31 | furrywolf | does 60 ESR work with all my old extensions, my non-signed extensions, and my working audio setup? |
| 03:00.24 | xrogaan | I don't know, but it loads webpages properly. |
| 03:01.44 | furrywolf | many of my extensions modify webpages to be closer to my idea of proper. :P |
| 03:02.09 | xrogaan | my idea of proper is equal or less than 1 second. |
| 03:02.12 | furrywolf | and I absolutely will not, under any circumstances, use a browser that requires signed extensions. this is pure evil of microsoft levels. |
| 03:02.38 | xrogaan | signed by whom, mozilla? |
| 03:02.43 | furrywolf | yes |
| 03:02.47 | xrogaan | urgh |
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| 03:03.25 | xrogaan | well, we don't get a lot of choices. From what I understand we can only chose between the dark ages, chromium or firefox. |
| 03:03.38 | furrywolf | it is absolutely not OK for any company to appoint themselves arbiter of what other software you're allowed to use. |
| 03:03.55 | furrywolf | imagine what would happen if microsoft decided you were only allowed to run microsoft-signed applications on windows. |
| 03:04.07 | xrogaan | aren't they already doing that? |
| 03:04.19 | furrywolf | it's no better for mozilla to decide you're only allowed to run microsoft-signed extensions on firefox. |
| 03:04.38 | furrywolf | last I checked, you could still download any random binary from anywhere, or compile your own, and run it. |
| 03:04.59 | xrogaan | oh sure, until it get binned because it's not an allowed software. |
| 03:05.04 | furrywolf | s/microsoft-signed/mozilla-signed |
| 03:06.38 | furrywolf | software signing is morally wrong, and should not be tolerated. |
| 03:07.01 | xrogaan | It's not though. |
| 03:07.15 | xrogaan | Not with how we use softwares nowadays. |
| 03:07.43 | xrogaan | and by we, I'm talking about the general public who doesn't give a damn about the difference between a binary and google. |
| 03:08.24 | furrywolf | you consider it acceptable that a corporation decides what software you're allowed to run? |
| 03:09.17 | xrogaan | What software is allowed on to run on their services ('cause windows is now a service). |
| 03:09.40 | xrogaan | mozilla corp. isn't better, I agree with that. |
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| 03:11.09 | xrogaan | intrusive "studies" that gets installed without user consent and that pocket thing that is forced on users to name a few. Not even talking about the responsible ads they want to throw at people. |
| 03:12.35 | xrogaan | It won't really matter if the EU passes their link tax. |
| 03:13.26 | mroh | is it possible to dist-upgrade from sid to ceres? |
| 03:13.35 | gnarface | probably |
| 03:13.43 | gnarface | worked for me about a year ago, anyway |
| 03:13.56 | gnarface | had to manually pitch a few packages overboard i think but i got it working |
| 03:14.14 | mroh | ok, thx |
| 03:14.19 | gnarface | it's important to note that was *before* i'd migrated sid to systemd though, ymmv |
| 03:14.46 | gnarface | i did the upgrade to ceres instead |
| 03:15.48 | xrogaan | are ceres updates in a "rolling distro" style? |
| 03:16.02 | mroh | i wonder what would be the difference from ceres to sid, if i only change policy-lit in sid |
| 03:16.16 | mroh | policykit |
| 03:17.02 | gnarface | xrogaan: i'd been repeatedly told in no uncertain terms in #debian "no" but i still don't see any meaningful distinction |
| 03:18.26 | xrogaan | maybe they don't want to be seen as hippies :P |
| 03:19.10 | gnarface | it is basically like a rolling distro except every few years they peel a new "testing" off it |
| 03:19.32 | golinux | xrogaan: ceres is sid |
| 03:19.36 | gnarface | so occasionally it's in lockstep with testing, and occasionally testing might get a fix earlier, or unstable might get a change that gets later removed |
| 03:20.20 | gnarface | the rest of the time, if it's not in sid/ceres it's usually because it won't build |
| 03:20.53 | gnarface | (or is cripplingly unstable - but don't expect them to always restrain themselves from putting broken things in there on purpose) |
| 03:21.11 | gnarface | (stuff in non-free seems to be worse in that regard) |
| 03:21.22 | gnarface | that's all anecdotal though |
| 03:21.26 | gnarface | ymmv |
| 03:24.35 | mroh | i use sid since my first debian release, must be woody or something... so unstable has been pretty stable for me ^^ |
| 03:26.06 | gnarface | well it gave me more reliability than Gentoo |
| 03:26.11 | gnarface | that's not saying much though |
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| 03:26.36 | mroh | the worst thing i can remember was a broken libc... |
| 03:34.31 | mroh | the difference between ceres and sid is this? http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/How_to_install_systemd-independent_udisks2_and_policykit_before_removing_systemd_from_a_Debian_jessie/sid_installation |
| 03:34.52 | mroh | or is there more than this? |
| 03:36.12 | gnarface | i don't know really. i'm running ceres without udisks2 OR polkit |
| 03:36.35 | gnarface | there's probably not much more than that |
| 03:37.12 | gnarface | ceres might use eudev instead of udev by default now |
| 03:37.16 | gnarface | not sure about that |
| 03:39.25 | mroh | running vanilla debian w/o systemd on a server works out of the box, the problem are desktops, because of polkit etc... |
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| 03:58.47 | TheBlueWizard | is there any channel on freenode devoted to networking issues? |
| 03:59.34 | muep_ | ##networking |
| 04:04.45 | TheBlueWizard | thanks |
| 04:15.19 | golinux | Might be infested with systemd advice though |
| 04:16.11 | TheBlueWizard | in ##networking channel? well, I got no response so far |
| 04:18.33 | muep_ | there isn't much about systemd to discuss there |
| 04:19.20 | golinux | I thought systemd has tentacles in everything |
| 04:19.51 | muep_ | it is not a "how do I configure my OS" channel |
| 04:24.02 | TheBlueWizard | gives up on ##networking |
| 04:26.25 | TheBlueWizard | my understanding of systemd is that it is more of behind the scene thing...you won't see its actions directly. And my networking question revolves around how to set the network properties so that Win box can see Linux box and vice versa (IP only; don't care about DNS) |
| 04:27.43 | TheBlueWizard | my goal is to be able to transfer files between two boxes...preferably via web server...copy onto Win box |
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| 04:39.06 | golinux | Won't NFS work for something like that? |
| 04:39.50 | furrywolf | does NFS ever work? :) |
| 04:40.35 | furrywolf | I think the best option for communicating with windows is samba, but I haven't done anything with windows in a great many years, so that may be outdated. |
| 04:46.36 | furrywolf | bbl, wolfy bedtime |
| 05:04.37 | gnarface | i mean, if all you need to do is copy a file across a LAN with assumed perimeter security you can just use netcat |
| 05:05.07 | gnarface | that should be the default case unless you're running software firewalls on the hosts themselves |
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| 06:36.18 | detha | For the record, ##networking is mostly neutral on systemd, except for the odd 'oh, that thing getting in the way of sanity again'. But it is rather quiet there this early/late, and mentioning windows will immediately lose you interest from about half of the channel. |
| 06:37.47 | gnarface | for linux-specific networking i think you want to try #netfilter maybe? |
| 06:38.01 | gnarface | something like that |
| 06:38.24 | detha | I always forget about ##netfilter, but yes. More firewall-specific though |
| 06:44.43 | Leander | by the way there's ssh in windows 10 now, it could be an easier way to copy files between machines |
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| 07:06.04 | gnarface | oh, yea that's a good point. ssh on windows 10 might be easier. my thought about netcat was just that it's easy to set up a simple 1-off HTTP server with it, then you could download to windows (any version) with any web browser |
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| 07:22.02 | Acacia | Yeah I replaced sysv-rc with openrc and the boot speed difference was obvious. Nothing broke either so I think it's a straight upgrade so far |
| 07:37.55 | Digit | sleepy question, is there a tails of devuan? |
| 07:40.12 | golinux | Yes. Heads https://heads.dyne.org/ |
| 07:43.41 | Digit | oh yes. i /am/ sleepy. n_n i knew that before. thanks. :) |
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| 08:33.14 | _abc_ | Hi. Has fsmithred tried to answer my questions/proposals wrt live-boot? I'll leave him a memoserv message, he seems to be busy. |
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| 09:18.53 | fsmithred | _abc_, I'll answer your question after a few sips of coffee |
| 09:20.35 | _abc_ | fsmithred: take your time, I have to get the washing out of the machine |
| 09:22.30 | _abc_ | bbl |
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| 09:24.43 | fsmithred | if you stayed logged in, you could come back to find the answer |
| 09:25.41 | fsmithred | nofastboot |
| 09:25.42 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:33.30 | PiHomeServer | Hi all. I search for help about how to build a custom ISO for a Raspberry. I found the repo but i would like to know how to use it |
| 09:34.09 | gnarface | you know there's a raspberry pi images already, right? |
| 09:34.35 | gnarface | it would be a lot easier to start with one of those, customize it, then make a copy of the SD card |
| 09:35.14 | PiHomeServer | Ok. Is it safe to do this way in case of certificates or ssh keys generated on the first boot ? |
| 09:36.01 | fsmithred | do you want to share the image with other people? |
| 09:36.08 | gnarface | i'm not sure there are any such keys in the RPI images |
| 09:36.19 | fsmithred | ssh server? |
| 09:36.31 | gnarface | obviously if you're gonna put some in there then redistribute the ISO... yea, you'll want to make sure not to leave your private keys in there... |
| 09:36.32 | PiHomeServer | Yep. I use the basic ISO, then install scripts, tools, custom website, etc. and then share with the community |
| 09:37.13 | PiHomeServer | I can clear history and logs before cloning the SD card but not sure if that's safe enought |
| 09:37.13 | fsmithred | good idea to remove the ssh host keys, so everyone doesn't have the same ones. (Don't ask me how I know this) |
| 09:40.39 | fsmithred | PiHomeServer, you looked at this page? https://git.devuan.org/sdk/arm-sdk |
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| 09:41.58 | PiHomeServer | Yes i did. But i'm not expert enought to understand what i can do with it |
| 09:42.22 | PiHomeServer | I create a VM with Devuan x64. Then installed all. Not sure what to do next as i can't find the init.sh script |
| 09:42.45 | PiHomeServer | Or do i have to install that on a Raspberry itself ? |
| 09:43.37 | fsmithred | I think you can't use x64. Isn't it arm? |
| 09:44.22 | PiHomeServer | I was naive to think that i could use a x64 with cross compile tools to generate the ARMv7 ISO :) |
| 09:44.40 | gnarface | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:44.51 | gnarface | but you will have to enable multi-arch first, which i note that arm-sdk page fails to mention |
| 09:45.06 | gnarface | (but it should be implied by the inclusion of 'qemu-user-static' in the required package list) |
| 09:45.54 | gnarface | (also, that's the 32-bit one so this will only work for rpi 1 and rpi 2 unless you change arches and a couple of those packages) |
| 09:46.23 | gnarface | it WILL work on ceres and it SHOULD work on ascii but it will not on jessie |
| 09:46.42 | gnarface | regardless i wouldn't do it in your base install; do it from a chroot. adding a bunch of arm multiarch stuff to your amd64 system is gonna make a mess. |
| 09:47.25 | gnarface | i think if you were doing this on the pi itself you just omit qemu-user-static? |
| 09:47.37 | PiHomeServer | Ok so i have to learn how to do that with "chroot". |
| 09:48.09 | PiHomeServer | I did nothing on the Pi. I wanted to test in a VM on my Mac |
| 09:48.36 | gnarface | either way, even if you do this, it won't change the fact that you'll still have to figure out which packages generate secret keys automatically so you can make sure to exclude them from your cloned ISOs |
| 09:48.54 | gnarface | so it really may be a better idea to just start with a pre-built raspbian devuan image |
| 09:49.45 | PiHomeServer | Ok i will start from that ! Thanks |
| 09:50.09 | gnarface | no problem |
| 09:50.50 | PiHomeServer | Any advice, how once the build is made, how to create an iso avoiding unused space ? Meaning my soft will use less than 1gb, if i use a 8gb card, i will have unused space and no one will be able to install on a 4Gb card |
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| 09:51.52 | fsmithred | dd to .img file? |
| 09:52.03 | gnarface | hmmm. well first of all, don't partition the whole thing. just partition the first 1GB |
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| 09:52.10 | gnarface | (then it's easy to truncate with dd when copying) |
| 09:52.58 | PiHomeServer | By this way we are sure that no file will exist over the sued sapce ? (sorry that sounds maybe to "Windows" defrag mindset ) |
| 09:53.21 | gnarface | yes, nothing will write data outside the partitioned space |
| 09:53.49 | mpmc | Hey folks, I have a chip here & I'd like to install devuan, Can I just download the image & flash it like the vendor supplied images (chip flasher)? |
| 09:54.44 | djph | mpmc: what "chip"? |
| 09:55.03 | mpmc | CHIP (R8) |
| 09:55.12 | fsmithred | what is a chip? |
| 09:55.34 | PiHomeServer | Ok so before install i resize the partition to the expected size (let say 1.5Gb), i install all, then do a dd with a limit of 1.5Gb + FAT32 partion sized |
| 09:55.51 | gnarface | waoh 9$ sbc |
| 09:55.59 | mpmc | No, it was. |
| 09:56.06 | gnarface | mpmc: let us know if you get that booting devuan, i'm interested but i can't really help |
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| 09:56.36 | mpmc | gnarface: According to the devuan docs it should boot. |
| 09:56.44 | mpmc | https://mirror.leaseweb.com/devuan/devuan_ascii/embedded/README.txt |
| 09:57.29 | gnarface | PiHomeServer: i think you have the right idea. don't forget to leave space for the bootloader and swap partition (if furnished) |
| 09:57.55 | gnarface | PiHomeServer: not sure what you mean by FAT32 there... i'm ignoring that part and hoping you realize you shouldn't use fat32 for any of this |
| 09:57.59 | PiHomeServer | Cool ! I really want to compare Devuan vs Raspbian Lite for my project |
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| 09:58.30 | gnarface | oh wait, the boot partition on the RPI is fat32 isn't it? i keep forgetting that |
| 09:58.42 | PiHomeServer | @gnarface : i mean the boot partition of the Raspberry Pi that is located on the first partition of 100Mb that is FAT32 |
| 09:58.44 | PiHomeServer | yes |
| 09:59.11 | gnarface | yea i think the boot partition isn't right at the first part of the disk. there's a small bit of extra space there before it |
| 09:59.34 | PiHomeServer | Correct |
| 09:59.41 | gnarface | if you overshoot by a couple MB it's no big deal though |
| 10:00.07 | PiHomeServer | Yes. I will add a way to auto extand the ext4 partition on first boot. |
| 10:00.42 | gnarface | there's a big gotcha there |
| 10:01.19 | PiHomeServer | gotcha ? |
| 10:01.37 | gnarface | just make sure not to format it with old ext4 tools, or the new versions will corrupt the filesystem on resize |
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| 10:02.02 | gnarface | i think this is only a risk if you're using jessie |
| 10:02.06 | PiHomeServer | I will use the default filesystem |
| 10:02.44 | gnarface | mpmc: you're right, it's listed there in the readme. i believe it. |
| 10:03.03 | PiHomeServer | I want to use the latest release. I have to use it in order to have freeradius 3 and not 2 |
| 10:03.12 | mpmc | gnarface: I'm asking in devuan-arm, so don't worry :) |
| 10:11.20 | PiHomeServer | Thank you all for help |
| 10:12.54 | gnarface | np |
| 10:15.00 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 10:15.04 | _abc_ | here |
| 10:15.55 | fsmithred | hi |
| 10:15.59 | _abc_ | hi |
| 10:16.06 | fsmithred | man live-boot for nofastboot |
| 10:16.28 | _abc_ | So, re: live-boot, I took it apart manually, tried nofastboot too, that addresses fsck at boot time, not clean shutdown imo |
| 10:17.09 | _abc_ | There should be a stanza in the shutdown script which remounts the unionfs ro and then remounts the persistence media ro before shutdown |
| 10:17.21 | _abc_ | just before. Based on 'persistence' present in /proc/cmdline. |
| 10:17.26 | _abc_ | Your thoughts on this? |
| 10:17.49 | fsmithred | I don't know. Never thought about what happens on shutdown |
| 10:18.03 | _abc_ | That's when things get messed up |
| 10:18.15 | _abc_ | Where is nofastboot interpreted, in which script? |
| 10:18.20 | fsmithred | it doesn't just sync and unmount? |
| 10:18.30 | fsmithred | hang on |
| 10:19.34 | _abc_ | fsck on /dev/sdb1 the fat partition in a r2u made volume shows 'There are differences between boot sector and its backup. |
| 10:19.37 | _abc_ | This is mostly harmless. Differences: (offset:original/backup) |
| 10:19.38 | fsmithred | wow, it's not there |
| 10:19.45 | _abc_ | What is not there? |
| 10:20.12 | fsmithred | nofastboot is not in any files in /lib/live/boot (or /config) |
| 10:20.26 | _abc_ | fsmithred: in a r2u fat partition, one can change the iso in it by simply copy, right? |
| 10:20.31 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I noticed |
| 10:20.45 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I also tried /etc/init.d/* but that is not relevant, it is "too late" |
| 10:21.08 | fsmithred | you mean where you're using the findiso option? |
| 10:22.14 | _abc_ | yes |
| 10:22.33 | fsmithred | if using findiso, you can't just change the iso file - kernel and initrd get pulled out and copied outside the iso. |
| 10:22.35 | _abc_ | Assuming I remaster the iso and put it on the stick, I assume all I need to do is copy it in? Or is there another step |
| 10:22.41 | fsmithred | those would need to work with the new iso |
| 10:22.48 | _abc_ | Oh okay assume I fix that too. Or that they are the same |
| 10:22.56 | fsmithred | should work |
| 10:23.01 | _abc_ | I notcied the 32MB initrd only contains 26k of firmware at present. |
| 10:23.05 | _abc_ | Is that normal? |
| 10:23.12 | _abc_ | *noticed |
| 10:23.18 | fsmithred | don't know |
| 10:23.29 | fsmithred | is something missing that you need? |
| 10:23.30 | _abc_ | Because initrd is the place where one can put the needed scripts for what I intend to do without remastering |
| 10:23.47 | _abc_ | fsmithred: well there's nothing in there, no initrc for example |
| 10:23.49 | _abc_ | no shell, nothing |
| 10:24.17 | _abc_ | So the initrd gets loaded before the squashfs and there I can implement the fsck but I'd like to hook it into the shutdown too |
| 10:24.27 | _abc_ | Assuming I do this by hand: how does this sound: |
| 10:24.42 | _abc_ | in shutdown script: - check if 'persistence' in /proc/cmdline |
| 10:25.17 | _abc_ | - if yes: remount unionfs ro after shutting all loggers?; remount media on which persistence is ro; then continue shutdown as usual? |
| 10:25.51 | _abc_ | There should be a late-copy-system-to-ram for this umounting to go cleanly but that is not yet possible and would take a long time |
| 10:26.45 | _abc_ | ? |
| 10:27.00 | fsmithred | is that what normally happens on shutdown of a non-live system? |
| 10:28.53 | _abc_ | non-live shutdown remounts all ro just before end |
| 10:29.13 | _abc_ | I assume it fails / does not account for the "funny" mount represented by the unionfs/overlay |
| 10:29.40 | _abc_ | Does this make sense? |
| 10:29.48 | fsmithred | there may be discussions about this in debian-live mailing list archives |
| 10:30.12 | _abc_ | I would not know about that, asking you as resident expert. |
| 10:32.12 | _abc_ | fsmithred: /initramfs-tools/scripts/live-bottom/12fstab :: |
| 10:32.16 | fsmithred | I don't know enough about it to give you a useful answer |
| 10:32.26 | _abc_ | +if [ "${NOFASTBOOT}" != "true" ] then touch /root/fastboot ... |
| 10:34.32 | fsmithred | I can't find that file |
| 10:34.46 | fsmithred | oh, is that in the initrd? |
| 10:35.07 | _abc_ | It is on debian, apparently, not on devuan |
| 10:35.18 | _abc_ | Basically the present devuan initrd is empty apart from firmware for cpu |
| 10:36.13 | fsmithred | oh |
| 10:36.20 | fsmithred | yeah, I've run into that |
| 10:36.26 | fsmithred | remove the intel firmware |
| 10:36.38 | KatolaZ | _abc_: the actual initrd is under the syslinux dir |
| 10:36.45 | KatolaZ | AFAIK |
| 10:36.46 | _abc_ | So would you agree that putting some "more" stuff into the initrd.img might fix it |
| 10:36.55 | KatolaZ | _abc_: ^^^ |
| 10:37.05 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: I checked both, the syslinux one is copied out of the squashfs by r2u |
| 10:37.12 | fsmithred | I think the rest of the initrd is wrapped up inside the blob |
| 10:37.13 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: they are identical, I checked |
| 10:37.21 | _abc_ | What blob? |
| 10:37.26 | fsmithred | intel bullshit |
| 10:37.34 | _abc_ | It' too small. 26k |
| 10:37.39 | fsmithred | ok |
| 10:37.47 | _abc_ | Again: the devuan initrd is 32MB sized and 26k of it are used |
| 10:38.04 | _abc_ | devuan ascii desktop live 2.0.0 at least |
| 10:38.20 | KatolaZ | _abc_: and how di you manage to boot your system? |
| 10:38.31 | fsmithred | remove intel-microcode package and you'll get a normal initrd |
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| 10:38.46 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: I have no idea, it just works. Seriously, KatolaZ, I've run linux without an initrd most of the time since 1996. |
| 10:39.01 | KatolaZ | _abc_: sure |
| 10:39.01 | _abc_ | fsmithred: can you detail the steps for that please? |
| 10:39.05 | KatolaZ | I have as well |
| 10:39.16 | fsmithred | apt-get remove intel-microcode |
| 10:39.22 | _abc_ | fsmithred: remove the package and then rebuild the initrd? |
| 10:39.24 | KatolaZ | I just seem to remember that all the live isos have a proper initrd |
| 10:39.35 | KatolaZ | I might be wrong on that though :) |
| 10:39.53 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: care to check? the one I mentioned now, specifically? |
| 10:40.03 | fsmithred | I'm booting an iso now |
| 10:40.11 | KatolaZ | _abc_: you have checked it already, right? |
| 10:40.17 | _abc_ | There's no need to boot it, you can look inside the initrd.img |
| 10:40.22 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: please read backlog? |
| 10:40.57 | _abc_ | cd /tmp; mkdir t; cd t; cpio -id </path/tp/initrd.img |
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| 10:42.37 | Digit | dejavu buying a pendrive to put tails on. i think last time it got cancelled. n_n |
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| 10:44.49 | _abc_ | fsmithred: it worked, the initrd is back to normal without the firmware package. What the h*? |
| 10:44.54 | _abc_ | fsmithred: care to explain this a bit?! |
| 10:45.20 | _abc_ | ?? |
| 10:45.26 | fsmithred | no explanation. I ran into this before, I removed the package, then proceeded as normal |
| 10:45.43 | _abc_ | What else? Any chickens sacrificed? Moonlight? |
| 10:45.51 | fsmithred | intel-microcode does something with the initrd. |
| 10:45.51 | _abc_ | suppresses more sarcasm |
| 10:46.02 | fsmithred | I don't know what it is, but I decided that I did not want it. |
| 10:46.04 | _abc_ | Let's see what's in the microcode package as files |
| 10:46.14 | fsmithred | can you open it? |
| 10:46.19 | _abc_ | I assume it pushes the microcode in at any cost |
| 10:46.24 | fsmithred | I think it's something.bin |
| 10:46.27 | _abc_ | I don't have it, just deinstalled |
| 10:46.42 | _abc_ | Just a sec. I don't think the bin does the deed, it has to replace the initrd |
| 10:47.51 | _abc_ | sudo apt-get download intel-microcode |
| 10:47.53 | _abc_ | E: Can't select candidate version from package intel-microcode as it has no candidate ?! |
| 10:48.35 | _abc_ | What the |
| 10:48.50 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I have main contrib non-free selected, what can this be?! |
| 10:50.02 | fsmithred | don't download as root |
| 10:50.09 | fsmithred | Ijust got the package |
| 10:50.37 | fsmithred | did not get it in the live session - I got same error as you |
| 10:50.46 | _abc_ | synaptic claims it's not okay as package, has a record but no version for it |
| 10:50.55 | fsmithred | oh, only main repo is enabled |
| 10:50.59 | _abc_ | I'm not in the live session now |
| 10:51.07 | _abc_ | disk install |
| 10:51.17 | _abc_ | fsmithred: say again please? |
| 10:51.30 | fsmithred | not using auto.mirror.devuan.org in sources, are you? |
| 10:52.01 | fsmithred | I got the "Can't find a source..." error in the live session |
| 10:52.04 | _abc_ | http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged |
| 10:52.12 | fsmithred | in the installed system, I can download the package |
| 10:52.18 | fsmithred | same repo |
| 10:52.24 | _abc_ | What's in your /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 10:52.42 | _abc_ | So something is very broken? |
| 10:52.51 | fsmithred | main updates and security |
| 10:53.21 | _abc_ | I have ascii-security etc yes |
| 10:53.47 | fsmithred | main contrib and nonfree in the installed system |
| 10:54.35 | _abc_ | I have exactly this for binaries: deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main |
| 10:54.38 | _abc_ | deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-updates main |
| 10:54.40 | _abc_ | deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-security main |
| 10:55.31 | fsmithred | you need to add contrib and non-free to download intel-microcode |
| 10:55.44 | fsmithred | I just did it in the live, and the error is gone |
| 10:56.03 | fsmithred | brb |
| 10:56.51 | _abc_ | The repository 'http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-contrib Release' does not have a Release file. >> fsmithred |
| 10:57.18 | _abc_ | yes you are right, added |
| 11:01.08 | fsmithred | you got it straightened out? |
| 11:09.02 | _abc_ | I now got a full sized initrd which I unpacked to search for boot time things |
| 11:09.23 | _abc_ | And am going to copy it into the bootable media and boot it, into the fat32 made by r2u |
| 11:09.45 | fsmithred | ok |
| 11:09.56 | _abc_ | wonders if this system will reboot cleanly to hdd with the initrd in |
| 11:10.05 | _abc_ | One thing: without the initrd boot time was faster... |
| 11:10.31 | fsmithred | I didn't think you could do that |
| 11:10.37 | fsmithred | (boot without the initrd) |
| 11:10.50 | fsmithred | without a custom kernel |
| 11:11.53 | _abc_ | Depends how vanilla one's hardware is, I guess. Mine is very vanilla, not by accident. |
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| 11:21.43 | xkr47 | \o/ full disk encryption available in install! |
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| 11:27.39 | _abc_ | fsmithred: okay, I booted into the live system using nofastboot, no change, |
| 11:28.33 | _abc_ | there is no 'nofastboot' in the unpacked initrd, there is fastboot, found with grep -Rli in the unpacked disk |
| 11:29.52 | _abc_ | running the live system made by r2u with persistence, i.e. /dev/sdb1=fat+syslinux+kernel+iso; /dev/sdb2=persistence; leaves both uncleanly umounted |
| 11:30.06 | _abc_ | checking with another system, i.e. booted into the hdd system |
| 11:30.11 | _abc_ | This is NOT GOOD |
| 11:30.46 | _abc_ | I found one FSCK*.REC file on the fat32 indicating at least parts of the kernel containing sectors ended up there, after fsck, but the disk works as is. |
| 11:30.57 | _abc_ | I assume duplicates or whatever. This is a really bad situation. |
| 11:31.21 | _abc_ | Every reboot basically leads to data corruption |
| 11:31.31 | _abc_ | When did nofastboot last work properly? In wheezy perhaps? |
| 11:32.23 | _abc_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:34.32 | _abc_ | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:36.06 | _abc_ | later... fastboot|fsck.mode=skip) fastboot=y; later ... fsckfix|fsck.repair=yes) fsckfix=y ... forcefsck|fsck.mode=force) forcefsck=y |
| 11:37.02 | _abc_ | so looks like one wants: forcefsck fsckfix and not nofastboot |
| 11:37.21 | fsmithred | this might be relevant: https://lists.debian.org/debian-live/2012/09/msg00140.html |
| 11:41.02 | _abc_ | fsmithred: that looks like it, but is it in or not? |
| 11:41.28 | _abc_ | I just checked that booting and shutting down the usb based system with the full initrd on it does not fix the problem |
| 11:41.41 | _abc_ | What's the exact manual unpacking command for .debs now? |
| 11:41.48 | _abc_ | xz + ar ? |
| 11:42.21 | _abc_ | ?? |
| 11:42.45 | fsmithred | ar x |
| 11:43.09 | _abc_ | boot-init.sh is not present in the ramdish |
| 11:43.10 | _abc_ | *k |
| 11:43.28 | _abc_ | and also not on the running system |
| 11:43.55 | _abc_ | So where did that mod end up fsmithred |
| 11:44.13 | fsmithred | I don't know |
| 11:44.21 | fsmithred | that was in squeeze |
| 11:47.09 | fsmithred | bin/boot/9990-misc-helpers.sh is the only place I can find 'mount -o remount' |
| 11:47.55 | _abc_ | fsmithred: it is passed in as param, see all instances of mount |
| 11:49.25 | fsmithred | yeah, ok. Got a long list that way |
| 11:50.16 | _abc_ | mount -o remount,"${opts}" f.ex. |
| 11:51.25 | fsmithred | comment in 0030-verify-checksums: Attempt to remount all mounted filesystems read-only |
| 11:51.39 | _abc_ | rephrased: every mount attempt in any file in liveboot should be prepended with a if ${forcefsck}; then fsck -y ${fs} |
| 11:53.35 | _abc_ | echo u > /proc/sysrq-trigger ; seems drastic, but one can try it several times |
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| 11:55.03 | _abc_ | fsmithred: so the verify-checksums is a cruft which mounts all relevant things, checksums, and umounts them ! so they can be mounted again ! |
| 11:55.25 | fsmithred | that sounds weird |
| 11:55.47 | _abc_ | Verify_checksums is called only once from 9990-main.sh |
| 11:56.16 | _abc_ | This part of the boot system is so crufty it's a miracle it works at all |
| 11:56.30 | _abc_ | imo |
| 11:57.14 | _abc_ | fsmithred: if the live boot scripts run from the initrd, then they do not run again from the uncompressed squashfs right? |
| 11:57.17 | _abc_ | hopes |
| 11:57.23 | _abc_ | This is really really crufty |
| 11:57.42 | fsmithred | I assume that's the case |
| 11:59.02 | fsmithred | up through wheezy, the fat32 was always mounted ro. Starting with jessie, if you use persistence, root can write to the fat32 partition. |
| 11:59.10 | _abc_ | so, again, to pack/unpack an initrd, one uses the standard format for this, or did that change too? |
| 11:59.22 | _abc_ | cpio ... |gzip ? |
| 11:59.30 | fsmithred | don't actually need a persistent volume, just the word persistence in cmdline |
| 11:59.31 | fsmithred | yes, |
| 11:59.46 | fsmithred | I do it the other way |
| 11:59.57 | fsmithred | zcat initrd.img | cpio -i |
| 12:00.34 | _abc_ | but this has to be the special gzip -9 thing no? |
| 12:01.06 | fsmithred | don't know. I don't do anything special |
| 12:02.46 | _abc_ | I meant to make a new initrd |
| 12:03.21 | _abc_ | find . | cpio -o -c | gzip -9 > /boot/test.img |
| 12:03.36 | fsmithred | find . -print0 | cpio -0 -H newc -o | gzip -c > ../${custom_initrd}.gz |
| 12:04.18 | fsmithred | that's right out of r2u - part of patch-initrd |
| 12:04.26 | _abc_ | ok |
| 12:04.40 | fsmithred | which patches the initrd to allow user rw access to fat32 partition |
| 12:05.40 | _abc_ | I don't follow, are you saying that the r2u initrd made under ascii should mount the fat32 rw now, or is that in future versions? |
| 12:06.24 | fsmithred | I'm saying live-boot/live-config will mount the fat32 rw if the word persistence is in the boot command. |
| 12:06.28 | fsmithred | starting with jessie. |
| 12:06.46 | _abc_ | that's not the case here in ascii. |
| 12:06.54 | _abc_ | I'll try again but last time I looked, it was ro |
| 12:07.17 | _abc_ | Maybe it's essential for the initrd to be fully populated as is now, after removing the intel fw package |
| 12:07.35 | _abc_ | I looked inside that and the install script seems to mess with the initrd on the system in ways which are not okay |
| 12:07.43 | _abc_ | I assume it's a bug in that particular package version |
| 12:11.34 | fsmithred | yeah, in ascii it's rw with 'persistence' |
| 12:12.15 | _abc_ | But only with the non intel microcode mangled initrd |
| 12:13.01 | _abc_ | Which must be removed as you said |
| 12:14.08 | fsmithred | yup |
| 12:14.41 | fsmithred | I need to go soon |
| 12:16.22 | _abc_ | I am going to try and add the umount tricks from that patch into the shutdown script in the persistence mount |
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| 12:18.12 | fsmithred | ok, I'll be interested to hear what happens |
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| 12:47.51 | _abc_ | fsmithred: here? |
| 12:48.37 | _abc_ | I will try to replace /sbin/shutdown with a script which runs the umount commands before running shutdown. It has to be a /bin/sh script in case it is executed from the initrd |
| 12:49.07 | _abc_ | I do not understand if the initrd contents in /lib/live get copied to the running system and executed, or executed in place. I assume the former. |
| 12:49.33 | _abc_ | Will have to place some markers in the file and then boot with it, markers in initrd.img scripts |
| 12:52.22 | fsmithred | ok, leaving now. will be back later today. |
| 12:52.54 | fsmithred | yeah, I think they get executed in place, before switch-root |
| 12:53.02 | fsmithred | good luck |
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| 13:29.30 | filipdevuan | hi im thinking about trying pureOS |
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| 14:03.15 | _abc_ | fsmithred: ? I have a working script which cleanly but violently shuts down a session from live+persistence, and works from persistence alone, without modifying the image |
| 14:03.38 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I would like to make it replace /sbin/halt /sbin/shutdown /sbin/reboot |
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| 14:44.11 | _abc_ | fsmithred: here? |
| 14:44.22 | _abc_ | been in and out rebooting and checking the script(s) |
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| 16:36.56 | msiism | what's the package mate uses for power management in ascii? |
| 16:38.59 | buZz | package mate? |
| 16:39.03 | buZz | whats that |
| 16:39.17 | buZz | also, what kind of power management are you looking for? most of it is in the kernel |
| 16:39.24 | buZz | msiism* |
| 16:39.38 | g4570n | mate-power-manager is banned in ASCII |
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| 16:47.22 | msiism | buZz: i was meaning to say: what is the package that mate uses for power management? there is mate-power-manager in debian 9, but not in Devuan ASCII. |
| 16:47.40 | buZz | oh, no clue, i dont use mate |
| 16:47.51 | buZz | maybe the devuan mate has it already built in? |
| 16:47.51 | msiism | buZz: me neither :) |
| 16:48.05 | buZz | what does that even do? |
| 16:48.18 | msiism | buZz: https://packages.debian.org/stretch/mate-power-manager |
| 16:48.33 | buZz | ah, that depends on udevd and upowerd |
| 16:48.37 | buZz | does devuan have those? |
| 16:48.48 | buZz | nope |
| 16:49.06 | muep_ | msiism: maybe just install mate and check what is running when you log in |
| 16:51.07 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.154.12.141) |
| 16:53.42 | golinux | I'm pretty sure that antofox has cleansed mate-power-manager of systemd |
| 16:53.50 | msiism | muep_: don't really want to load that onto my system. |
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| 16:55.18 | golinux | Check at http://hezeh.org/mate-desktop-on-devuan-ascii/ and also on git.d.o |
| 16:55.21 | buZz | golinux: but are upowerd and udevd parts of systemd ? |
| 16:56.01 | golinux | https://pkgmaster.devuan.org/bannedpackages.txt |
| 16:56.36 | buZz | is that a yes or a no |
| 16:57.12 | muep_ | upower is not part of systemd |
| 16:57.20 | buZz | ah ok |
| 16:57.30 | buZz | ah indeed, -upower- is in devuan |
| 16:57.51 | buZz | but not udev , it seems? |
| 16:57.52 | muep_ | most distributions take udev from systemd but there is also the eudev fork |
| 16:58.10 | buZz | question then becomes , does mate-power-thingy work with eudev |
| 16:58.11 | muep_ | which is a standalone tree of sources |
| 16:58.26 | golinux | I heard that is does. |
| 16:58.45 | golinux | goes to search logs. |
| 17:00.36 | golinux | It might be in ascii-proposed. |
| 17:03.21 | golinux | Or on http://hezeh.org/mate-desktop-on-devuan-ascii/ which will eventually get to devuan proper. |
| 17:06.33 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 17:12.40 | msiism | golinux: i'm sure AntoFox will see the thread on d1g and respond accordingly. |
| 17:17.07 | msiism | goes back to implementing his own crude variant of 'shift' in tcl |
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| 17:31.16 | xrogaan | Is there a tool to properly and automatically rewrite /etc/network/interfaces? |
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| 17:58.47 | xrogaan | not for me mind you, for people who can't bother to reconfigure their network. |
| 18:01.20 | *** join/#devuan filipdevuan (~filipdevu@cpc77042-warw18-2-0-cust394.3-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 18:01.44 | filipdevuan | im trying to install nvidia drivers from .run and i get something like cant install cuz youre connected to xserver discoonect from xserver then try again :< |
| 18:03.54 | msiism | filipdevuan: trying to install nvidia driver with a running xserver, as it seems. |
| 18:04.29 | filipdevuan | yeah probably... |
| 18:04.38 | filipdevuan | i dont know how to exit X xD |
| 18:05.12 | msiism | filipdevuan: you need to log out of your graphical session, then kill the display manager, that should be it. |
| 18:05.16 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 18:05.22 | filipdevuan | ok ill try |
| 18:06.08 | msiism | should be sth like /etc/init.d/<display manager> stop |
| 18:06.22 | msiism | nedd to be root |
| 18:06.27 | msiism | s/nedd/need |
| 18:06.31 | filipdevuan | i should write down commands |
| 18:07.04 | msiism | probably |
| 18:07.44 | msiism | filipdevuan: btw, are you sure you want t install the driver that way? |
| 18:07.52 | filipdevuan | nah im not |
| 18:08.02 | filipdevuan | i dont know how to install it in a different way |
| 18:08.38 | msiism | there's a debian way to do that, good "debian wiki" and "nvidia display drivers". might be a better choice. |
| 18:08.53 | msiism | s/good/google :D |
| 18:09.05 | filipdevuan | ok cheers |
| 18:09.20 | filipdevuan | https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
| 18:09.21 | filipdevuan | that? |
| 18:09.33 | msiism | that should be it |
| 18:09.45 | filipdevuan | deb http://httpredir.debian.org/debian stretch-backports main contrib non-free |
| 18:09.48 | filipdevuan | will it work from there |
| 18:10.28 | msiism | filipdevuan: you will need to adjust that for devuan. |
| 18:11.01 | *** join/#devuan obeardly (~obeardly@2603:3011:1661:0:b66d:83ff:feae:fbcd) |
| 18:11.03 | msiism | that would be as folllows, if if i'm not mistaken: |
| 18:11.47 | msiism | deb http://deb.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main contrib non-free |
| 18:12.09 | msiism | but make sure you really need backports before you do that. |
| 18:12.17 | msiism | the page should explain that. |
| 18:13.09 | filipdevuan | ill try to download legacy drivers from package manager |
| 18:13.59 | msiism | ok, if the howto say that will require backports, you will need backports. |
| 18:14.14 | filipdevuan | by the way is there huge difference between noveau drivers and non free driveers?? |
| 18:15.01 | filipdevuan | in game performance foe example |
| 18:15.06 | msiism | filipdevuan: i think noveau is ok for average use. if you want to play games (e.g., neverball) you'll need the proprietary stuff. |
| 18:15.31 | filipdevuan | ok brb i reboot |
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| 18:17.56 | golinux | Install nvidia from console F1 etc. sgfxi automates the process https://smxi.org/ |
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| 18:18.01 | filipdevuan | well the truth is |
| 18:18.21 | filipdevuan | that i want use gnu free software only but im thinking about going back to windows just to be able play some shit games which is unacceptable for me |
| 18:18.37 | filipdevuan | so im just gonna install non free drivers and play non free games just to resist from going back to windows 10 |
| 18:18.50 | golinux | Disclaimer I haven't used that for years but it always got the job done including blacklisting and removals |
| 18:20.45 | golinux | Now I use nouveau |
| 18:21.12 | filipdevuan | used what? |
| 18:23.09 | filipdevuan | omg im so used to windows and games that right now when im linux im completely lost |
| 18:23.18 | filipdevuan | im trying to be gnu free software but i bought wrong laptop for that |
| 18:26.44 | filipdevuan | okay i think i have optimus graphics card |
| 18:26.45 | filipdevuan | 940mx |
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| 18:35.15 | msiism | filipdevuan: the wiki page should help you to find the right driver for that. it's a bit tedious, i know. |
| 18:35.41 | filipdevuan | its okay its only a problem because its non free and its always issues with non free stuff, you know |
| 18:35.53 | filipdevuan | issues to discourage you from free linux to get back to non free windows |
| 18:36.21 | filipdevuan | on linux mint i had them installed properly however i read too much stuff about systemd and cant use systemd linux distros :< |
| 18:37.14 | msiism | filipdevuan: well, learing how to install proprietary graphics drivers i part of the game for you then :) |
| 18:38.14 | filipdevuan | yeah i dont wanna go back to windows just because on windows everything is preinstalled... |
| 18:40.13 | golinux | <filipdevuan> used what? |
| 18:40.33 | golinux | sgfxi Get it here: https://smxi.org/ |
| 18:40.45 | filipdevuan | what? |
| 18:41.08 | golinux | Automated nvidia driver installation |
| 18:41.51 | golinux | if the devuan repos fail you |
| 18:42.41 | golinux | biab |
| 18:43.03 | filipdevuan | i think everything fails me |
| 18:43.43 | filipdevuan | i dont even know whats this smxi |
| 18:46.04 | filipdevuan | okay i know now thanks |
| 18:46.39 | *** part/#devuan mroh (~mroh@2a01:488:67:1000:253d:cce3:0:1) |
| 18:46.58 | filipdevuan | okay im doing it thanks :> |
| 18:47.03 | xkr47 | installed clean ascii on virtual machine, autoconfigured encrypted disk, without desktop env, just ssh server & base tools.. on shutdown it fails to shut down the encrypted drive, says busy for a while and then timeouts the unmounting and reports "failed" |
| 18:47.09 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@5.146.74.61) |
| 18:47.15 | xkr47 | the machine powers off after this |
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| 18:48.19 | msiism | filipdevuan: i suggest you go with the Debian way of installing it, which is on the wiki page, you've already found. it may be a bit complex, but it's probably the cleanest. |
| 18:48.34 | filipdevuan | okay |
| 18:48.44 | filipdevuan | im on it now https://smxi.org/site/install.htm |
| 18:50.00 | msiism | filipdevuan: if that's the way you wanna do it, i won't try stop you... |
| 18:51.51 | filipdevuan | well |
| 18:52.02 | filipdevuan | # apt install linux-headers-$(uname -r|sed 's/[^-]*-[^-]*-//') nvidia-legacy-340xx-driver |
| 18:52.05 | filipdevuan | that command looks weird |
| 18:52.26 | filipdevuan | and when i put deb command it says it doesnt exist the command or something in terminal |
| 18:53.05 | msiism | filipdevuan: read the wiki page before you do these things or you will probably break your system. |
| 18:53.49 | msiism | (or well, read any docs for anything you're trying to do there beforehand) |
| 18:55.35 | msiism | filipdevuan: if you don't understand something, you can ask anytime. if there's an error, please provide the exact error message and the command entered that caused it. |
| 18:56.16 | filipdevuan | i think im to impatient lol its crap what im trying to do because im trying to install non free drivers to play steam games |
| 18:56.27 | filipdevuan | but i hate steam cuz its corporate bollocks and they sell users data... |
| 18:56.29 | filipdevuan | but im just bored |
| 18:56.35 | filipdevuan | used windows whole life |
| 18:56.43 | filipdevuan | so im used to convenience too much |
| 18:57.17 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 18:57.20 | msiism | well, if you're bored, how about getting into some linux basics first? |
| 18:57.25 | _abc_ | fsmithred: here? |
| 18:58.47 | _abc_ | So I have a solution for clean umount of media on live boots made with refracta2usb or drirect live boots, in the form of a script which replaces /sbin/{poweroff,halt,shutdown,reboot} and seems to work cleanly |
| 18:58.54 | msiism | filipdevuan: or you can play open ttd, which is a quite boring and complicated game about trafficing goods in trans and busses and by ship etc. doesn't need 3d drivers, since it's so retro. |
| 18:59.02 | _abc_ | Previously the shutdown always left the media umounted unclean |
| 18:59.31 | _abc_ | @ fsmithred ^ ask me / memoserv me about this tomorrow |
| 18:59.32 | filipdevuan | iv downloaded like 50 games from synaptic package manager strategy games rpg games but i still wanna install non free drivers to play one or two matches in dota 2 and then uninstall |
| 18:59.44 | filipdevuan | im just really new to the world of linux and i feel lonely xD |
| 18:59.51 | filipdevuan | i dont really need these non free drivers... |
| 18:59.52 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I mean your today, my tomorrow, 10PM here |
| 19:00.17 | msiism | filipdevuan: well, i'm not a shrink, so i cannot help you there :) |
| 19:00.22 | filipdevuan | haha |
| 19:00.31 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: this is not about feelings. Let's talk about your system, not about you ;) |
| 19:00.36 | _abc_ | switches off ELIZA mode |
| 19:00.57 | filipdevuan | well for example id like to know how to check my system configuration in deuvan i use xfce |
| 19:01.54 | msiism | filipdevuan: the first question there will always be: what kind of configuration? |
| 19:02.06 | filipdevuan | graphics card memory card like system info |
| 19:02.15 | filipdevuan | i mean ram memory not memory card xD |
| 19:02.46 | muep_ | with xfce you can use most of the tools that you could use in all the other environments |
| 19:03.09 | msiism | filipdevuan: you should have a look at the 'lspci' command |
| 19:03.11 | filipdevuan | well to be honest i like xfce cuz its pretty straightforward but i think my favourite environment is gnome |
| 19:04.06 | filipdevuan | intel intel intel intel i dont like this company and yet everything is intel, so 3d controller is graphics card i guess |
| 19:04.25 | filipdevuan | nvidia corporation device 179c (rev a2) what 179c and rev a2 means? |
| 19:04.39 | _abc_ | just found another bug in xfce4 @ascii: maximize an app, and the window decorations are gone. Can't unmaximize it. |
| 19:04.50 | _abc_ | I had to resort to a scraping script app to fix it |
| 19:05.59 | msiism | filipdevuan: 179c is a driver version, afaik. |
| 19:06.25 | filipdevuan | yeah so it seems like to me nouveau drivers are just normal drivers but out of date?? |
| 19:06.50 | muep_ | filipdevuan: nouveau is an entirely different driver |
| 19:07.28 | filipdevuan | would it show in lspci that i use nouveau drivers then. i think i could have messed up my configuration a bit with installing nvidia drivers from synaptic |
| 19:07.31 | _abc_ | Fyi to unmaximize etc apps in xfce4, install and use devilpie which is a crazy screen manipulation app |
| 19:07.35 | _abc_ | rule based |
| 19:07.42 | *** join/#devuan xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 19:07.52 | filipdevuan | i remember from windows i was just able to see card i use but in linux its like i dont even know what card the system sees in my laptop |
| 19:08.09 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: there are many many ways to see the card |
| 19:08.11 | _abc_ | hwinfo is one |
| 19:08.28 | filipdevuan | it says bash:hwinfo:command not found |
| 19:08.37 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: sudo hwinfo |
| 19:08.50 | filipdevuan | not found as well oh im under root btw |
| 19:08.59 | _abc_ | apt-get install hwinfo |
| 19:08.59 | msiism | filipdevuan: so what could that mean? |
| 19:09.13 | filipdevuan | i have no idea xD that some command is missing? :D |
| 19:09.23 | _abc_ | yes you need to install it |
| 19:09.36 | filipdevuan | install hwinfo?? |
| 19:09.45 | _abc_ | apt-get install hwinfo ... |
| 19:09.48 | filipdevuan | yeah |
| 19:09.51 | _abc_ | without the dots! |
| 19:09.54 | filipdevuan | yeah i know |
| 19:09.57 | _abc_ | And press Enter at the end ;) |
| 19:09.58 | filipdevuan | i know apt-get ;D |
| 19:10.16 | _abc_ | you want hwinfo |less, there's a lot of text there |
| 19:10.22 | filipdevuan | E: Unable to lock the administration directory (/var/lib/dpkg/), is another process using it? |
| 19:10.33 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: you have synaptic open perhaps |
| 19:10.38 | _abc_ | or aptitude? |
| 19:10.38 | filipdevuan | oh yeah i do |
| 19:10.48 | _abc_ | you can install it from there |
| 19:10.54 | filipdevuan | okay its installing |
| 19:10.57 | filipdevuan | <3 |
| 19:11.11 | filipdevuan | so i think i have got plenty of commands to installs then |
| 19:11.22 | _abc_ | oh yeah |
| 19:11.27 | golinux | filipdevuan: you only need the sgfxi script. thought some of the other toola are interesting |
| 19:11.45 | filipdevuan | yeah yeah iv already configured xgfxi script |
| 19:11.50 | filipdevuan | just need to reboot |
| 19:12.01 | _abc_ | err reboots are very seldomly needed |
| 19:12.01 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 19:12.09 | golinux | Cool |
| 19:12.11 | _abc_ | telinit 1 followed by telinit 2 perhaps |
| 19:12.19 | filipdevuan | oh btw when i type some command to terminal and i wanna terminate the process and get back to command line how do i do it?? |
| 19:12.26 | _abc_ | ^C |
| 19:12.38 | msiism | that is Ctrl+C |
| 19:13.08 | filipdevuan | oh ok |
| 19:13.08 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: how did you get to devuan? You might be a windows or ubuntu user? |
| 19:13.14 | filipdevuan | well |
| 19:13.27 | filipdevuan | i had mint first. then i was like i wanna try something different so i tried fedora |
| 19:13.38 | filipdevuan | and fedora was cool but some tracker apps were there and then i read some weird stuff about systemd |
| 19:13.38 | _abc_ | ... |
| 19:13.48 | filipdevuan | processes i mean tracker processes |
| 19:13.49 | _abc_ | yeah, the tinfoil hatters. |
| 19:14.15 | filipdevuan | so i was like omg this systemd sounds like conspiracy to me so i read a list somewhere init linux systems so this is how i got into devuan basically |
| 19:14.42 | filipdevuan | i was thinking about trying SafeOS but im just gonna stick to devuan |
| 19:15.45 | filipdevuan | i was just looking for OS without dodgy or unwanted processes running in the background so this is why i installed devuan |
| 19:16.02 | filipdevuan | however |
| 19:16.25 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 19:16.40 | _abc_ | am I here or what |
| 19:17.02 | msiism | _abc_: it seems so |
| 19:17.03 | _abc_ | Stupid server change stresses me out |
| 19:17.20 | filipdevuan | iv seen some weird processes on devuan as well with d at the end or applet.py packagekitd polkitd |
| 19:17.31 | filipdevuan | im like is it some systemd or something |
| 19:17.46 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: it is but they are mostly neutered |
| 19:17.58 | filipdevuan | yeah i see ;P |
| 19:17.59 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: same as a dog with removed b***s, no bite, little barking. |
| 19:18.08 | filipdevuan | nice ;D |
| 19:18.20 | _abc_ | polkit is a nightmare, it's acl without acl |
| 19:18.28 | filipdevuan | yeah its running on my system |
| 19:18.34 | _abc_ | Another layer of red (mad) hat(ters) on top of unixsanity |
| 19:18.46 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: it appears there are problems to replace it for now |
| 19:18.58 | _abc_ | It' s a piece of crap that gives me no end of grief. |
| 19:19.00 | filipdevuan | upowerd obexd gvfsd it all looks like redhat to me xD |
| 19:19.10 | _abc_ | Basically it's sudoers acl and secure linux all in one |
| 19:19.23 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: those are standardish |
| 19:19.31 | filipdevuan | :P |
| 19:20.07 | _abc_ | gvfsd is related to dbus, another crazy invention which declared normal unix sockets obsolete and reimplemented it 100 times more complex in C++ |
| 19:20.45 | _abc_ | The idea is to change everything that can be changed until people scream, then continue changing, and silence more etc |
| 19:20.54 | filipdevuan | okay i did this smxi script and now it wants me to shutdown my desktop |
| 19:21.10 | filipdevuan | but im concerned if i really wanna have non free drivers on my system ;/ |
| 19:21.12 | _abc_ | I went to #freebsd to ask what the situation is there, they said they're not moving to systemd but you can run it if you want to?! |
| 19:21.27 | filipdevuan | yeah iv read about that as well on internet today |
| 19:21.28 | _abc_ | why are you concerned about nonfree stuff? |
| 19:21.43 | filipdevuan | i dont know iv found that theres gnu free software movement on internet |
| 19:22.08 | filipdevuan | and non free drivers would be for games but these games are just time wasters to be fair i could have spent it for learning how to use linux instead |
| 19:22.22 | msiism | _abc_: are the redhat people really those wearing the tinfoil hats? i'd say they are rather wearing red hats, but might be mistaken. maybe there's red tinfiol, too. |
| 19:22.29 | *** join/#devuan taharqa (~taharqa@51.15.168.137) |
| 19:23.03 | _abc_ | msiism: no, we are the ones who wear them, because of red hat people |
| 19:23.06 | filipdevuan | i also wonder if installing non free drivers wont mess my laptop up |
| 19:23.21 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: usually no, but you can always back out. s/always/mostly/ |
| 19:23.32 | *** join/#devuan tokerl (~sb35@184.75.215.4) |
| 19:23.55 | *** join/#devuan Naologramme (~NaoTix@176-139-185-179.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 19:24.00 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: don't you have like a computing club or makerspace or such in your area? Where you can match up with people with like interests? |
| 19:24.15 | _abc_ | Virtually match up, like join their local chat/mailing list |
| 19:24.31 | filipdevuan | uhh i hardly doubt it there would be any linux user in my area, everybody uses macbooks or windowses... |
| 19:24.40 | filipdevuan | its england... |
| 19:24.52 | filipdevuan | i have a friend who is into amiga though very much |
| 19:25.08 | *** join/#devuan tokerl (~sb352@184.75.215.4) |
| 19:25.14 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: there are linux user everywhere in the world nowadays.... |
| 19:25.26 | _abc_ | heh amiga. This reminds me I need to get and install the spectrum zx emulator again and reinstall my favorite games from when I was young. |
| 19:25.28 | filipdevuan | well yeah dunno how to find any linux friends in my town xD |
| 19:25.29 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: you'd be surprised |
| 19:25.47 | *** join/#devuan amesser (~Andreas@193.138.218.166) |
| 19:25.59 | msiism | goes to the kitchen to find some tinfoil and see if it'll make any difference. |
| 19:26.05 | filipdevuan | another thing is most of em are systemd users linux mint ubuntu and i dont really like ubuntu cuz they coop with microsoft now |
| 19:26.20 | filipdevuan | and i hate google as well |
| 19:26.22 | filipdevuan | :/ |
| 19:27.42 | filipdevuan | so basically i feel like i dont even know what i can do on linux that i cant do on windows |
| 19:27.48 | filipdevuan | i should get some books |
| 19:31.53 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-39-207.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 19:32.35 | msiism | AntoFox: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2006 |
| 19:32.46 | msiism | (if you find the time) |
| 19:34.12 | *** join/#devuan filipdevuan (~filipdevu@cpc77042-warw18-2-0-cust394.3-2.cable.virginm.net) |
| 19:34.44 | filipdevuan | okay so basically if im gonna bring down some notepad and pen could you introduce me to some important commands that id need and what they do so ill type down everything????? |
| 19:35.27 | KatolaZ | man |
| 19:35.31 | KatolaZ | man man |
| 19:35.35 | msiism | :D |
| 19:35.47 | KatolaZ | then also |
| 19:35.55 | KatolaZ | man LETTER+TAB+TAB |
| 19:36.13 | KatolaZ | where LETTER is a lowercase letter in a-z |
| 19:36.47 | filipdevuan | letter tab tab in terminal |
| 19:37.25 | KatolaZ | sure |
| 19:37.30 | KatolaZ | man LETTER+TAB+TAB |
| 19:37.44 | KatolaZ | and you'll learn a lot of things about unix |
| 19:37.57 | KatolaZ | in a couple of years |
| 19:38.03 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-39-207.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 19:38.24 | filipdevuan | okay cheers <3 |
| 19:38.41 | sixwheeledbeast^ | systemd makes little difference to learning your way round basic unix, at the moment anyway. |
| 19:38.55 | msiism | filipdevuan: well, maybe one thing you should know that you're command line interpreter ("shell") is called bash (if you didn't change that). |
| 19:39.22 | filipdevuan | whats dpkg?? |
| 19:39.33 | msiism | filipdevuan: you can find out through "man dpkg" |
| 19:39.47 | filipdevuan | oh thats clever |
| 19:39.50 | msiism | "man <command>" will give you the manual page |
| 19:39.59 | filipdevuan | i didnt know about that!! :D |
| 19:40.12 | msiism | filipdevuan: well, KatolaZ was try to say that, but ok. |
| 19:40.18 | msiism | s/try/trying |
| 19:40.28 | filipdevuan | yeah sorry |
| 19:40.45 | msiism | no problem |
| 19:41.36 | filipdevuan | what command did i use to see my hardware configuration?? |
| 19:41.41 | msiism | filipdevuan: and don't worry if you don't really understand the contents of manual pages. they are often quite tehcnical in nature. |
| 19:41.52 | msiism | filipdevuan: you can find that in the command line history |
| 19:42.08 | msiism | at the command promt hit cursor up a few times. |
| 19:42.25 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: apropos hardware |
| 19:42.27 | filipdevuan | oh this is another clever thing, thanks lol!! are you a developer?? |
| 19:42.29 | filipdevuan | hdinfo ;D |
| 19:42.40 | filipdevuan | oh no this one doesnt work |
| 19:42.47 | msiism | filipdevuan: no, i was just bored one time. |
| 19:43.32 | AntoFox | msiism: as soon as I can :) |
| 19:43.33 | filipdevuan | for some reason it doesnt show the command i used for hardware configuration the one wth |short |
| 19:43.45 | msiism | AntoFox: thank you! |
| 19:44.10 | msiism | filipdevuan: that may be because you used to many command after that for it to remember. |
| 19:44.21 | filipdevuan | yeah |
| 19:44.23 | msiism | filipdevuan: bash's history is limited. |
| 19:44.37 | filipdevuan | no i have commands that i used before this one |
| 19:44.48 | filipdevuan | maybe its because i run this command under root |
| 19:44.59 | filipdevuan | and it wont show me commands i used from root when im not root |
| 19:45.00 | filipdevuan | ?? |
| 19:45.18 | KatolaZ | yes filipdevuan |
| 19:45.20 | filipdevuan | yeah that was right |
| 19:45.23 | KatolaZ | command history is per-user |
| 19:45.50 | filipdevuan | by the way is there any possibility to get rid of bios and install librem instead?? |
| 19:46.10 | msiism | filipdevuan: is there a problem withyour bios? |
| 19:46.30 | filipdevuan | no, no there isn't. whats oemstring1 oemstring2 oemstring3 what does it mean?? |
| 19:46.48 | _abc_ | Latvia? Lithuania? |
| 19:47.05 | msiism | filipdevuan: where do you get that? |
| 19:47.34 | filipdevuan | hwinfo |less under graphics card |
| 19:47.54 | filipdevuan | video graphics control |
| 19:48.13 | msiism | filipdevuan: ok, looks like some info the vendor could have provided but didn't. not sure. |
| 19:48.24 | msiism | i mean the graphics card vendor |
| 19:48.33 | filipdevuan | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.33 | filipdevuan | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.33 | filipdevuan | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.33 | filipdevuan | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.33 | filipdevuan | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.36 | filipdevuan | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:48.41 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: I would suggest one step at a time |
| 19:49.05 | filipdevuan | the weird stuff about my laptop is that it uses two graphics cards.... |
| 19:50.11 | msiism | filipdevuan: how do you know? |
| 19:50.55 | filipdevuan | because thats what they sold me first one is intel hd integrated second one is nvidia geforce 940mx. its something really weird in my opinion, when i was on windows i had to switch between cards |
| 19:51.07 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: all laptops use "2", one is the VESA fallback and the other one is the accelerated graphics card |
| 19:51.08 | fsmithred | _abc_, I'm back. |
| 19:51.09 | filipdevuan | i bought this laptop to play windows games but i ended up with using linux |
| 19:51.18 | _abc_ | fsmithred: you're only concerned with the accelerated one |
| 19:51.45 | fsmithred | huh? |
| 19:51.59 | fsmithred | I'm interested in the shutdown script |
| 19:52.03 | _abc_ | fsmithred: okay, so I made a script which uses echo 'u' >/proc/sysrq-request or such and it works, it replaces /sbin/{shutdown,halt,reboot,poweroff} which are linked against it |
| 19:52.20 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I'll paste it, it still has a few bugs, do not use on a non-persistence system |
| 19:52.32 | fsmithred | ok |
| 19:54.50 | _abc_ | http://paste.debian.net/1029111/ fsmithred |
| 19:55.40 | _abc_ | fsmithred: the bug consists in 'insufficient' detection of the persistence mode and in not calling the right binaries if persistence is not enabled (it tries to exec /sbin/shutdown.bin etc, symlinking those against /sbin/shutdown makes it work there too) |
| 19:56.12 | msiism | filipdevuan: you might want to check out http://tldp.org |
| 19:56.28 | _abc_ | fsmithred: to install: boot into persistence from a live usb iso, copy the script into /sbin, then move halt to halt.bin shutdown to shutdown.bin and symlink poweroff halt shutdown reboot to the script |
| 19:56.29 | fsmithred | thanks, I'll play with it |
| 19:56.43 | filipdevuan | what for? :P |
| 19:56.59 | _abc_ | filipdevuan: it seems to work cleanly and leaves no fuzz at all |
| 19:57.15 | _abc_ | * fsmithred ^ |
| 19:58.04 | msiism | filipdevuan: it will save you from gaming, for example. |
| 19:58.13 | filipdevuan | yeah gaming is fucked up |
| 19:59.01 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: some of the stuff on tldp.org might be abit outdated, but it's all good stuff |
| 19:59.10 | KatolaZ | s/abit/a bit/ |
| 19:59.20 | filipdevuan | windows gaming especially, i have 50 games right now that are waiting for me to be played, strategy games for example but i still keep thinking about windows games its so pain |
| 19:59.37 | msiism | filipdevuan: KatolaZ is right, but it's still kind of _the_ go-to place for general linux docs. |
| 19:59.51 | filipdevuan | yeah im just reading unix and internet fundamentals ;P |
| 19:59.58 | msiism | also, it has apparently been updated today |
| 19:59.58 | KatolaZ | msiism is right :) |
| 20:00.43 | filipdevuan | yeah thanks for all your information, im glad its free |
| 20:01.46 | filipdevuan | cuz in real world theres no such a thing like free |
| 20:02.14 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: uh? |
| 20:02.23 | KatolaZ | are we in an imaginary one? |
| 20:02.24 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 20:02.38 | filipdevuan | yeah usually when somebody wants give you knowledge he wants money for it |
| 20:03.32 | filipdevuan | i dont like reading on the screen oh my god |
| 20:03.53 | msiism | filipdevuan: you can print stuff out. |
| 20:04.14 | filipdevuan | yeah i know |
| 20:04.28 | filipdevuan | but anyways im just lazy bitch to learn |
| 20:04.37 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: you don't have to read all |
| 20:04.46 | KatolaZ | only the stuff you are interested in |
| 20:04.59 | KatolaZ | the "man LETTER" thing is useful if you have spare time |
| 20:05.01 | KatolaZ | even 5 min |
| 20:05.12 | KatolaZ | I used the trick when I started with unix |
| 20:05.18 | filipdevuan | yeah i do you know i dont do anything useful everyday |
| 20:05.23 | KatolaZ | I did that whenever I had free time |
| 20:05.46 | _stephen_ | may as well add 'man -k keyword' to that list of man hints. |
| 20:06.13 | _stephen_ | oh, someone else mentioned apropos... |
| 20:07.32 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: man `apropos . | cut -d " " -f 1 | shuf | head -1` |
| 20:07.33 | KatolaZ | ;) |
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| 20:08.56 | msiism | KatolaZ: now, that is interesting. |
| 20:09.23 | KatolaZ | msiism: ;) |
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| 20:10.25 | filipdevuan | i cant go below line 23/45 |
| 20:11.46 | filipdevuan | http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html |
| 20:13.03 | msiism | filipdevuan: i'd start with http://tldp.org/LDP/intro-linux/html/index.html |
| 20:13.13 | msiism | i should probably read that myself... |
| 20:13.28 | filipdevuan | oh damn xD |
| 20:13.31 | golinux | It never hurts to read and reread |
| 20:13.37 | filipdevuan | did you get through all of it msiism? |
| 20:13.56 | msiism | filipdevuan: i've never read it before... :D |
| 20:14.08 | *** join/#devuan freem (~freem@176-132-84-123.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 20:14.21 | msiism | filipdevuan: but i have read some other stuff from tldp and might have even crossed a chpater or two of that guide. it was really helpful. |
| 20:14.34 | filipdevuan | ok |
| 20:15.14 | msiism | also, if a local library is throwing out a bunch of totally outdated introductory books for Unix, you could grab one. |
| 20:16.04 | msiism | they usually have good explanations of how to use the command line. and there will hardly be any difference to you system up to a certain level. |
| 20:16.13 | filipdevuan | iv never seen any books related to unix in this library |
| 20:16.19 | filipdevuan | before |
| 20:16.36 | KatolaZ | a good one is "Unix Power Tools" |
| 20:16.47 | KatolaZ | it's a miscellanea of stuff and hacks |
| 20:16.57 | KatolaZ | I think it's also available online |
| 20:17.02 | KatolaZ | for free |
| 20:17.19 | KatolaZ | but it's not a book to read back-to-back |
| 20:17.25 | filipdevuan | yeah i wanna see myself reading this stuff |
| 20:17.32 | filipdevuan | wont believe it when i start get into it |
| 20:17.44 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: unix is not about reading |
| 20:17.46 | KatolaZ | is about doing |
| 20:17.51 | KatolaZ | doing what you need |
| 20:17.56 | filipdevuan | http://alandix.com/academic/tutorials/courses/Unix-Tools.pdf |
| 20:18.02 | filipdevuan | i downloadded it |
| 20:18.34 | filipdevuan | i dont know what i need xD. I wanted to get some drivers and install all related to playing windows game stuff basically |
| 20:19.10 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 20:20.23 | filipdevuan | but i get bored of em very easily. usually its like i wanna play some game so i install it and then i play it for 2 minutes and i turn it off and dont play it again :/ |
| 20:21.57 | KatolaZ | filipdevuan: you should try moria |
| 20:22.00 | KatolaZ | or angband |
| 20:22.24 | filipdevuan | i downloaded moria today actually unixmoria |
| 20:22.43 | filipdevuan | i really loved game called heroes 3 of might and magic |
| 20:23.08 | KatolaZ | if you like the genre, you might want to try angband |
| 20:23.24 | filipdevuan | yeah im downloading it in a bit |
| 20:24.05 | filipdevuan | i wonder how these nintendo emulators run, how do i play games on em |
| 20:24.21 | _stephen_ | how does moria compare to slashem? |
| 20:24.23 | filipdevuan | yeah i wanted to play some text-based game |
| 20:25.01 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: slashem is a *hack right? |
| 20:25.06 | _stephen_ | yeah |
| 20:25.10 | KatolaZ | (meaning that it is in the nethack family) |
| 20:25.36 | _stephen_ | oh, you start in a town... |
| 20:25.43 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 20:26.20 | KatolaZ | yes, but then you never visit the same level again |
| 20:26.56 | _stephen_ | Oh, you can keep going back to the town, like diablo... |
| 20:27.29 | KatolaZ | unless you go for iron-man mode |
| 20:27.38 | KatolaZ | but that's only in *band |
| 20:27.47 | _stephen_ | does it crazy murder you like slashem and nethack do? |
| 20:27.48 | KatolaZ | not in umoria, IIRC |
| 20:28.06 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: it's harder to die for stupid things, like in nethack |
| 20:28.14 | KatolaZ | but yes, you can definitely die on level 1 :D |
| 20:28.20 | filipdevuan | okay im playing some game called flare right now ;D |
| 20:28.23 | filipdevuan | just started ;D |
| 20:28.58 | KatolaZ | oh didn't know flare |
| 20:29.05 | _stephen_ | .. flare is an engine..? |
| 20:29.53 | _stephen_ | oh, that's pretty smooth |
| 20:29.54 | KatolaZ | _stephen_: apparently there is also a game |
| 20:30.03 | KatolaZ | with non-ascii graphics and all |
| 20:30.37 | KatolaZ | it's isometric |
| 20:30.40 | KatolaZ | other genre ;) |
| 20:30.45 | filipdevuan | oh nice game like diablo |
| 20:30.49 | _stephen_ | I think I played that late one night when I should have been sleeping, and then I forgot about it... |
| 20:30.52 | KatolaZ | looks neat though |
| 20:30.57 | filipdevuan | but i control my character with keyboard keys not with mouse P |
| 20:31.13 | filipdevuan | quite dark game nice |
| 20:32.47 | specing | pretty sure there are isometric gui clients for ascii games like nethack |
| 20:33.39 | _stephen_ | nethack-x11, slashem-sdl... |
| 20:33.52 | _stephen_ | falcons eye used to be pretty cool |
| 20:34.03 | filipdevuan | im playing permadeath |
| 20:37.04 | filipdevuan | nice game |
| 20:37.05 | _stephen_ | is there a key you can press to attack or do you have to use the mouse? |
| 20:37.15 | filipdevuan | i use mouse to attack |
| 20:37.58 | filipdevuan | nah i dotn think theres a key ;D |
| 20:40.16 | filipdevuan | r u playing flare right now? |
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| 20:42.03 | golinux | #debian-fork is a good place for generic chatter |
| 20:44.57 | *** join/#devuan mchasard (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 20:46.05 | mchasard | hi |
| 20:46.29 | mchasard | i'm under myio linux |
| 20:46.43 | mchasard | how to install locate to my language french |
| 20:46.51 | _abc_ | locale? |
| 20:47.01 | filipdevuan | locate? |
| 20:47.11 | mchasard | locale sorry |
| 20:47.27 | mchasard | to get french language |
| 20:50.18 | filipdevuan | french language of linux?? |
| 20:50.53 | mchasard | to get this myolinux with french language |
| 20:51.01 | _abc_ | mchasard: you are in gui? |
| 20:51.13 | _abc_ | Also why ask myolinux questions in devuan? |
| 20:51.42 | mchasard | cause myo linux is based in devuan |
| 20:52.26 | buZz | dpkg-reconfigure locale ? |
| 20:52.35 | buZz | dno if that changes language aswell |
| 20:52.57 | buZz | imho using nondefault languages just makes sure you'll be unable to find helpful searchengine hits on errormsgs |
| 20:53.00 | buZz | :D |
| 20:53.02 | mchasard | ok thanks i'm trying |
| 20:53.06 | buZz | welcome |
| 20:53.53 | mchasard | locale is not installed |
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| 20:54.01 | _abc_ | http://myokit.org/linux do you have a link to myo linux?! |
| 20:55.14 | mchasard | yes wait please |
| 20:55.29 | mchasard | i donwload a browser theres noone installer |
| 20:55.32 | mchasard | installed |
| 20:56.13 | _abc_ | if you're in a gui you change the gui's language going to something like settings->language or settings->keyboard and mouse |
| 20:56.28 | _abc_ | in a terminal you only want to set the keyboard which is done simply. |
| 20:56.37 | _abc_ | Are you in gui or in terminal? |
| 20:57.10 | mchasard | language is ok for keyboard |
| 20:57.18 | fsmithred | mchasard, locales not locale |
| 20:57.23 | fsmithred | dpkg-reconfigure locales |
| 20:57.35 | _abc_ | So then what do you try to set up? Gui? Graphics? |
| 20:57.42 | _abc_ | *are you trying to |
| 20:57.51 | _abc_ | fsmithred: any opinion on the script? |
| 20:57.55 | fsmithred | dpkg-reconfigure keyboard- (I forget if it's -configuration or -setup) |
| 20:58.04 | fsmithred | just had a quick look at the script |
| 20:58.12 | fsmithred | no opinion yet |
| 20:58.13 | _abc_ | keyboard-configuration |
| 20:58.16 | _abc_ | ok |
| 20:58.27 | fsmithred | except for noticing || and && in the same line |
| 20:58.32 | _abc_ | It's a dirty hack, needs a lot of cleaning and more checks but it works |
| 20:58.36 | _abc_ | there are parens there ;) |
| 20:58.38 | mchasard | hi fsmithred |
| 20:58.47 | _abc_ | || ( && ) |
| 20:59.32 | fsmithred | ok, I didn't notice that |
| 21:01.01 | _abc_ | fsmithred: so anyway I rebooted a number of times with it, works nicely and is faster than the usual reboot. Disks sdb1 sdb2 remain clean on shutdown |
| 21:01.06 | _abc_ | mission accomplished. |
| 21:01.15 | fsmithred | cool |
| 21:01.27 | fsmithred | maybe that should get pushed upstream |
| 21:02.33 | *** join/#devuan mchasard (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:02.45 | fsmithred | is it French now? |
| 21:05.10 | mchasard | all menu etc ..from any soft are in english keyboard is in french |
| 21:08.07 | *** join/#devuan atepa (~atepa@91-156-247-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:08.09 | fsmithred | after dpkg-reconfigure you need to log out and log in again |
| 21:09.16 | fsmithred | mchasard, is the application menu in english or french? |
| 21:09.33 | mchasard | english |
| 21:10.00 | fsmithred | this is an installed system, right? Or are you running from live media? |
| 21:10.12 | mchasard | system is intalled |
| 21:10.58 | fsmithred | you chose french as the default locale? |
| 21:11.18 | mchasard | yes if i remember |
| 21:11.32 | mchasard | with refracta installer |
| 21:12.08 | fsmithred | well, I do know a way to make it french. |
| 21:12.27 | fsmithred | are you the only user? |
| 21:12.42 | mchasard | yes i just installed it under vboox |
| 21:13.31 | fsmithred | make a file: /etc/profile.d/locale |
| 21:13.40 | fsmithred | with two lines in it... |
| 21:13.50 | fsmithred | LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 |
| 21:13.54 | booyah | writeput ar_AR.UTF-8 in it and done |
| 21:14.08 | fsmithred | LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8 |
| 21:14.09 | mchasard | ok |
| 21:14.11 | fsmithred | lol |
| 21:14.11 | booyah | wait, you want language as in France, or actually French Language |
| 21:14.18 | booyah | <_< |
| 21:15.57 | mchasard | the second line is ? |
| 21:16.40 | fsmithred | LC_ALL=fr_FR.UTF-8 |
| 21:16.53 | mchasard | ok and i exit and save |
| 21:16.58 | fsmithred | yes |
| 21:17.02 | fsmithred | then log out/in |
| 21:17.13 | mchasard | ok |
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| 21:18.23 | fsmithred | did it work? |
| 21:18.40 | mchasard | no allways in english |
| 21:18.45 | fsmithred | open a terminal |
| 21:18.55 | mchasard | i have to reboot or just logout an login? |
| 21:18.58 | fsmithred | run 'ls notarealfile |
| 21:19.00 | mchasard | ok done |
| 21:19.15 | fsmithred | you should get an error message in french |
| 21:19.55 | mchasard | ls: cannot access 'notarealfile': No such file or directory |
| 21:19.58 | mchasard | no en english |
| 21:20.00 | fsmithred | shit |
| 21:20.05 | fsmithred | is the locales package installed? |
| 21:20.06 | mchasard | sorry |
| 21:20.12 | fsmithred | it's not you |
| 21:20.21 | mchasard | i don't believe |
| 21:20.26 | fsmithred | changing language usually causes problems |
| 21:20.43 | mchasard | apt-get install locale ? |
| 21:21.10 | mchasard | its already installed |
| 21:21.39 | mchasard | locales is already the newest version (2.24-11+deb9u3) |
| 21:21.51 | fsmithred | do dpkg-reconfigure locales again, and make sure you select french as default |
| 21:22.32 | mchasard | i should be sudo |
| 21:22.37 | fsmithred | yes |
| 21:23.16 | mchasard | i have now the good menu wait please |
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| 21:26.38 | fsmithred | ? |
| 21:26.47 | mchasard | fr_FR.UTF-8...cannot open locale definition file `fr_FR': No such file or directory |
| 21:26.54 | mchasard | not worked |
| 21:27.05 | fsmithred | where do you get that message? |
| 21:27.09 | mchasard | update-locale: Error: invalid locale settings: LANG=fr_FR.UTF-8 |
| 21:27.27 | mchasard | after dpkg locale |
| 21:27.40 | KatolaZ | mchasard: have you tried "dpkg-reconfigure locales"? |
| 21:27.53 | KatolaZ | you must activate your preferred locales there |
| 21:28.02 | KatolaZ | otherwise they won't be generated |
| 21:28.06 | KatolaZ | (my2cents) |
| 21:28.53 | fsmithred | yeah, you have to check the box next to each language you want. |
| 21:29.35 | fsmithred | or edit the file manually (/etc/locale.gen) |
| 21:30.08 | mchasard | local gen is ok |
| 21:30.35 | fsmithred | the line for french is uncommented? |
| 21:31.10 | mchasard | yes |
| 21:32.16 | KatolaZ | mchasard: but then you have to run locale-gen |
| 21:32.19 | mchasard | theres no locale.conf ? |
| 21:32.45 | fsmithred | dpkg-reconfigure should have run locale-gen |
| 21:32.45 | mchasard | ok done |
| 21:32.59 | KatolaZ | yes fsmithred |
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| 21:33.58 | mchasard | so i logout /in ? |
| 21:34.35 | *** join/#devuan mchasard (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 21:34.43 | mchasard | allways in english |
| 21:34.53 | fsmithred | ls /usr/share/locale/fr/LC_MESSAGES/ |
| 21:35.07 | fsmithred | you should see the names of many programs |
| 21:35.30 | mchasard | yes i see |
| 21:36.06 | mchasard | gst-plugins-bad-1.0.mo gvfs.mo make.mo transmission-gtk.mo |
| 21:36.06 | mchasard | gtkspell.mo hexchat.mo pidgin.mo |
| 21:36.25 | fsmithred | yeah, those are translation files |
| 21:36.33 | *** join/#devuan novemberrain (~user@77-253-106-203.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 21:36.55 | mchasard | i'm under hexchat and its in english |
| 21:36.58 | fsmithred | I don't understand why it's not working |
| 21:38.04 | mchasard | ok thansk i have to go to bed sorry i'm working ... |
| 21:40.48 | fsmithred | ok, good luck |
| 21:41.02 | fsmithred | maybe rename the file I had you made |
| 21:41.04 | mchasard | bye may be see you tommorrow |
| 21:41.08 | fsmithred | from locale to locale.sh |
| 21:41.19 | fsmithred | but you shouldn't really even need that. |
| 21:41.28 | fsmithred | g'night |
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| 22:03.48 | SuicideJunkie | Hi. I was trying to ask about a menu search a few days ago. |
| 22:04.00 | SuicideJunkie | http://imagemodserver.duckdns.org/nick/tempstuff/search.png <-- this was the kind of thing I meant |
| 22:04.31 | SuicideJunkie | Something to search including descriptions for Bro and Dad who won't know the actual names of apps. |
| 22:06.49 | golinux | synaptic does something like that |
| 22:14.00 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@63.85-85-50.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 22:16.21 | aitor | golinux: did you mean to say synapse? |
| 22:17.10 | golinux | No. I meant synaptic you can search for packages related to a word. |
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| 22:21.31 | aitor | the above screenshot searches for apps related to the word |
| 22:22.02 | aitor | there is also another one named Albert |
| 22:26.15 | fsmithred | xfce has an application finder |
| 22:29.43 | MinceR | there are several search-based launchers like kupfer and katapult |
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| 22:31.58 | aitor | fsmithred: appfinder, or somesuch... but it is an app menu launcher |
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| 22:45.37 | SuicideJunkie | Yeah, I don't want a search for packages to install, but for apps and commands and such already there. |
| 22:46.57 | gnarface | SuicideJunkie: e17 has something called "run everything" but i don't know if it's portable |
| 22:47.08 | SuicideJunkie | Launchy sounds like it might be close |
| 22:47.34 | aitor | i've just updated the repository of gnuinos jessie including newlisp and openrc (both backported from ascii) |
| 22:47.39 | aitor | time to bed |
| 22:47.48 | aitor | 00:50 here |
| 22:48.06 | aitor | bye :) |
| 22:48.08 | g4570n | aitor: g' night |
| 22:48.42 | aitor | g4570n: see you this week in #devuan-mx |
| 22:48.52 | g4570n | ok |
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