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| 00:19.04 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-05-10): ASCII 2.0.0 release candidate is out! http://tinyurl.com/y9pta5vm || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/irclogs/freenode/_devuan/ https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
| 00:19.04 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:29.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, this is not really offtopic though it might sound like it was: is there a possible link between logrotate and systemd that causes processes to get stopped and restarted when logrotate does its thing? Something that got introduced with systemd and wasn't there on initv + logrotate, like processes under systemd monitor reacting differntly to signals or whatever |
| 00:32.20 | Xenguy | a |
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| 01:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy https://github.com/rsyslog/rsyslog-pkg-ubuntu/issues/56 |
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| 01:34.38 | gnarface | well of course they sabotaged rsyslogd, that's the competition! |
| 01:35.27 | gnarface | (no need to mention that this is obviously a wrong-minded approach to open source) |
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| 01:58.42 | byzandula | greetings |
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| 02:00.12 | NewGnuGuy | byzandula: hi there |
| 02:05.38 | byzandula | apparently my upgrade to ASCII didn't fly so well.. looks like I still have a lot of old packages and now library dependency probs |
| 02:05.40 | byzandula | =/ |
| 02:14.36 | byzandula | very odd that it didn't auto-update packages like virsh-daemon and such.. finding if I update the packages manually it fixes things. |
| 02:15.39 | NewGnuGuy | byzandula: What were you upgrading from? |
| 02:16.02 | byzandula | Devuan Jessie |
| 02:16.53 | golinux | What repo are you using? |
| 02:17.16 | byzandula | pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 02:18.27 | golinux | OK. Have a look at this page to make sure you've got everything. https://devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list |
| 02:18.58 | NewGnuGuy | Could you post a copy of your /etc/apt/sources.list in a pastebin? |
| 02:19.13 | byzandula | certainly |
| 02:19.57 | byzandula | https://pastebin.com/rWcM8kLF |
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| 02:22.26 | byzandula | had to explicitly upgrade packages like asterisk, virsh-daemon, etc to get them to the ascii version it seems they didn't update on upgrade and were still looking for jessie libraries |
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| 02:23.19 | byzandula | now I'm stuck on trying to upgrade kernel |
| 02:25.17 | byzandula | https://pastebin.com/yHRrHgyg |
| 02:25.26 | byzandula | those are my current woes |
| 02:28.55 | NewGnuGuy | byzandula: try running `dpkg --configure -a` as root |
| 02:29.53 | byzandula | no love similar errors |
| 02:31.16 | NewGnuGuy | try uninstalling udev |
| 02:35.12 | byzandula | I think it uninstalled but still getting errors |
| 02:36.00 | NewGnuGuy | `apt-get remove udev` |
| 02:36.07 | byzandula | yeah that's what I did |
| 02:37.08 | NewGnuGuy | What does `apt list --installed | grep udev` return? |
| 02:38.11 | byzandula | eudev/testing,now 3.2.2-13 amd64 [installed] |
| 02:38.11 | byzandula | libeudev1/testing,now 3.2.2-13 amd64 [installed,automatic] |
| 02:42.07 | NewGnuGuy | ping gnu_srs ^^^ |
| 02:43.45 | NewGnuGuy | ping gnu_srs1 ^^^ |
| 02:43.56 | golinux | He is certainly sleeping now. |
| 02:44.07 | NewGnuGuy | hmmm :/ |
| 02:44.59 | byzandula | no worries I appreciate the help |
| 02:45.20 | byzandula | I'm going to see if I can keep chasing down the dependencies |
| 02:46.05 | byzandula | update-rc.d: error: insserv rejected the script header |
| 02:46.12 | byzandula | wonder if that is causing some of the headache |
| 02:51.31 | NewGnuGuy | golinux: What timezone is gnu_srs in? |
| 02:52.05 | golinux | I'm pretty sure CET |
| 02:54.15 | byzandula | interesting.. |
| 02:54.18 | byzandula | apt-file search update-rc.d |
| 02:54.24 | byzandula | file-rc: /usr/sbin/update-rc.d |
| 02:54.51 | byzandula | if I try to do anything with that package it says it is missing or has been obsoleted |
| 02:55.05 | byzandula | apt-get install file-rc |
| 02:55.06 | byzandula | for example |
| 02:55.25 | byzandula | wonder if I should add jessie back in and try to install that package |
| 03:00.34 | NewGnuGuy | byzandula: On my system, the package responsible for the file /usr/sbin/update-rc.d is init-system-helpers |
| 03:02.42 | byzandula | interesting |
| 03:04.00 | byzandula | that is installed.. just did a dkpg-reconfigure on it |
| 03:05.23 | furrywolf | randomly noses golinux |
| 03:05.49 | NewGnuGuy | byzandula: Have you tried running dpkg-reconfigure on eudev? Might be worthy |
| 03:05.57 | NewGnuGuy | worth a try |
| 03:06.09 | NewGnuGuy | * |
| 03:06.20 | byzandula | ./usr/sbin/dpkg-reconfigure: eudev is broken or not fully installed |
| 03:06.37 | byzandula | going to try to remove |
| 03:06.41 | byzandula | and re-install |
| 03:08.57 | byzandula | which kernel should I be running? This is all due to trying to upgrade to 4 |
| 03:09.06 | byzandula | right now I'm on SMP Debian 3.16.43-2+deb8u5 |
| 03:09.35 | NewGnuGuy | the default ascii kernel is 4.9 |
| 03:09.43 | byzandula | that's what I thought |
| 03:10.08 | byzandula | and eudev replaces udev? |
| 03:10.19 | NewGnuGuy | That's the idea |
| 03:10.24 | byzandula | *nod* |
| 03:11.20 | byzandula | https://pastebin.com/CwnSB1xt |
| 03:15.17 | byzandula | Y |
| 03:15.25 | byzandula | wrong window..sry |
| 03:18.04 | NewGnuGuy | looks like insserv is interfering with the install. unfortunately I know nothing about insserv |
| 03:18.25 | byzandula | interesting |
| 03:18.29 | byzandula | I may have found something |
| 03:18.40 | byzandula | w00t |
| 03:18.57 | NewGnuGuy | do tell |
| 03:19.09 | byzandula | so even after removal udev init script still resided in /etc/init.d |
| 03:19.19 | byzandula | I did a dpkg --purge and it was still there! |
| 03:19.27 | byzandula | I removed manually and was able to install eudev |
| 03:20.12 | NewGnuGuy | That makes sense. Good find. |
| 03:20.24 | byzandula | sheesh |
| 03:20.47 | byzandula | now to try kernel upgrade... |
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| 03:23.28 | NewGnuGuy | crosses fingers |
| 03:23.34 | byzandula | what is the kernel package called? |
| 03:23.40 | byzandula | sorry .. I think I'm getting tired |
| 03:24.15 | byzandula | nm |
| 03:24.24 | byzandula | I found it |
| 03:24.25 | NewGnuGuy | linux-image-amd64 |
| 03:24.53 | byzandula | ty ty |
| 03:25.36 | byzandula | success!!! |
| 03:25.47 | byzandula | thanks for being my sounding board |
| 03:26.09 | NewGnuGuy | \o/ |
| 03:26.15 | byzandula | this calls for a scotch |
| 03:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmm /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: 226: /var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: udevadm: not found |
| 03:31.29 | golinux | Hi furry |
| 03:33.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | let me do wild guessing: in pre-install script it tries to shut down udev (by using udevadm) so it can get uninstalled safely, but since udevadm was already uninstalled, the pre-install bailed out with error and thus didn't manage to remove the old initscript |
| 03:35.14 | NewGnuGuy | DocScrutinizer05: Sound reasonable to me. |
| 03:35.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | or it's even more trivial that a apt-get remove udev has been done but no purge, and maybe a purge after remove doesn't work anymore |
| 03:35.47 | byzandula | Linux home01 4.9.0-6-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 4.9.88-1+deb9u1 (2018-05-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux |
| 03:35.48 | NewGnuGuy | Know how we can fix it so that doesn't happen again? |
| 03:35.51 | byzandula | that's a beautiful thing |
| 03:36.54 | NewGnuGuy | byzandula: nice! |
| 03:38.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | how to fix: no clear idea since I'm not a packager, but I'd prolly try appending a ||: at end of the "udevadm control -e ||:" or whatever the udevadm invokation in pre-install script |
| 03:44.27 | golinux | NewGnuGuy: Has a task for tomorrow. |
| 03:44.50 | NewGnuGuy | ?? |
| 03:45.22 | golinux | To report this fix. |
| 03:45.47 | golinux | Or is it a bug? |
| 03:47.09 | NewGnuGuy | gnu_srs is the maintainer for eudev |
| 03:48.57 | NewGnuGuy | I'll make sure he is made aware of the issue. |
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| 05:43.41 | afdanak | What's the difference between the cd, netinst, and dvd install images if I'm using a USB? |
| 05:44.39 | gnarface | the cd and dvd images are more designed for people who need to install without a network connection |
| 05:45.09 | gnarface | the netinst package, while capable of completing a booting system without a network connection, doesn't itself contain much more than that |
| 05:45.58 | gnarface | so if you have a supported network device and working connection you can probably get the install started quicker if you download the netinst package |
| 05:46.00 | gnarface | *image |
| 05:46.46 | gnarface | thare aren't any other differences that can't be changed after you've completed the install, as long as you can get a working network connection at some point |
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| 06:18.53 | mchasard | hi |
| 06:27.46 | mchasard | i need help to be able to open usb keys as user ...under root its ok |
| 06:27.55 | mchasard | i'm under fluxuan |
| 06:28.01 | mchasard | based on devuan |
| 06:28.03 | mchasard | asccii |
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| 10:45.16 | aitor | mchasard: i'll be here this afternoon (12:50 here, in spain) |
| 10:45.50 | aitor | which is your time zone? |
| 10:46.23 | aitor | you can use pmount |
| 10:46.44 | aitor | i'm working on another application for that, but it's not finished |
| 10:47.06 | aitor | now i need to go, see you in a few hours |
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| 16:30.01 | aslan8649 | i happened to boot up devuan is see if it has improved any and notice that the update to 'vlc' is broken. what is the time frame of fixing that update? |
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| 16:34.40 | golinux | aslan8649: We aren't doing anything with vlc so the problem lies elsewhere. |
| 16:36.44 | KatolaZ | aslan8649: what are you talking about? |
| 16:38.08 | fsmithred | aslan8649, apt-get -t ascii-security install vlc |
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| 16:38.53 | fsmithred | what mirror are you using? |
| 16:39.06 | Juesto | is it normal that the initrd is lacking a fsck? |
| 16:41.05 | fsmithred | someone else had a problem upgrading vlc last week, and it turned out the the mirror he was using wasn't updated. https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=2087 |
| 16:41.15 | fsmithred | I gotta go |
| 16:41.21 | fsmithred | later |
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| 18:07.33 | Juesto | alternatives to wpacli? |
| 18:08.04 | Juesto | i would like to scan and connect to a WiFi network via wpa_supplicant |
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| 18:34.32 | Tom-_ | Juesto, wicd? |
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| 18:53.31 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: KatolaZ' setnet.sh script. The packagename is setnet |
| 18:54.20 | NewGnuGuy | As with most networking commands, it must be run as root |
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| 18:54.31 | Juesto | hm okay |
| 18:56.35 | NewGnuGuy | The script must be called using the name "setnet.sh" and not just "setnet" |
| 18:59.16 | Juesto | oh ok |
| 18:59.20 | NewGnuGuy | Speaking of which, KatolaZ, could you change the name of the setnet script in the setnet package from "setnet.sh" to just "setnet"? |
| 19:00.54 | Juesto | so that's the way to control wifi without editing wpasupl config right? |
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| 19:02.50 | NewGnuGuy | All of the other executables in /usr/sbin lack extensions, so it is weird having to remember to use the extension in just this one script |
| 19:03.36 | NewGnuGuy | justinsm: That's the idea |
| 19:04.03 | NewGnuGuy | KatolaZ appears to be afk atm |
| 19:05.38 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: That's the idea |
| 19:05.56 | NewGnuGuy | oops, mention the wrong name |
| 19:06.04 | NewGnuGuy | mentioned* |
| 19:10.18 | NewGnuGuy | NewGnuGuy: Does that meet your needs? |
| 19:10.31 | NewGnuGuy | *facepalm* |
| 19:11.01 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: Does that meet your needs? |
| 19:15.43 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@2a02:a317:e144:d900:a2f3:c1ff:fe2d:aad4) |
| 19:17.20 | Juesto | okay, didn't try it yet |
| 19:20.46 | Juesto | wcid != wpa_supplicant, correct? |
| 19:31.59 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: correct |
| 19:32.21 | NewGnuGuy | wicd* |
| 19:33.11 | Juesto | right |
| 19:35.50 | NewGnuGuy | ping gnu_srs gnu_srs1 |
| 19:52.59 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: setnet isn't working properly |
| 19:53.31 | NewGnuGuy | What's it not doing correctly? |
| 19:54.04 | Juesto | doesn't scan for networks, adds a " " network then it fails to save config |
| 19:55.21 | Juesto | it uses wpa_cli which isn't working, NewGnuGuy |
| 19:55.36 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: Do you have the wpasupplicant package installed? |
| 19:55.40 | Juesto | yes |
| 19:55.52 | Juesto | wpa_supplicant is running |
| 19:56.04 | Juesto | but i can't interact with it via wpa_cli |
| 19:57.59 | muep | I use nmcli on systems where I want to manage wifi connections from command line |
| 19:58.19 | Juesto | muep, that's NetworkManager |
| 19:58.57 | Juesto | should i use wicd? |
| 19:59.08 | muep | I know it's for managing NM |
| 19:59.10 | Juesto | I'm on maemo leste |
| 19:59.55 | *** join/#devuan msiism (~msiism@200116b845298500ee086bfffe1ced28.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 20:00.54 | NewGnuGuy | ping parazyd ^^^ |
| 20:04.09 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: What does `apt list wpasupplicant` return? |
| 20:06.13 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 20:06.40 | _abc_ | Hello. It's weekend again, I am a happy user of ascii written by refracta script to hdd, and I'd like to write a howto do this for others? Maybe? |
| 20:06.49 | msiism | apropos of nothing: spacefm devs have put out a maintenance release in early march (i just noticed yesterday). also, the maintainer of spacefm-ng was on the team for that. |
| 20:07.08 | _abc_ | The new ascii rc, in the /title, is it different from what I downloaded about 2-3 weeks ago? How can I tell what I have? |
| 20:08.12 | Juesto | how do i configure clock to be compatible with Windows? |
| 20:08.27 | _abc_ | Aha, you need my mini howto |
| 20:08.28 | Juesto | is such hardware clock configuration global by chance? |
| 20:08.39 | _abc_ | msiism: where it that forum message where you put the hwclock thing I wrote? |
| 20:08.50 | _abc_ | Juesto: yes, just a second, I wrote about this, msiism has the link |
| 20:09.03 | _abc_ | msiism: ?? |
| 20:09.15 | Juesto | i did it on fedora but I'm not sure if it carries over |
| 20:09.24 | _abc_ | It does not, there is a bug and a workaround |
| 20:09.28 | Juesto | ah |
| 20:09.35 | Juesto | it's a per install setting |
| 20:09.40 | msiism | _abc_: give me a sec to get the link. |
| 20:09.43 | _abc_ | We have to be patient, msiism put my writeup of the thing on a forum and I do not have the link |
| 20:09.44 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: https://askubuntu.com/questions/232405/how-do-i-set-my-clock-in-windows-to-utc-localtime |
| 20:09.57 | _abc_ | NewGnuGuy: wrong answer for devuan. |
| 20:10.07 | muep | well here https://superuser.com/questions/975717/does-windows-10-support-utc-as-bios-time#975764 |
| 20:10.09 | golinux | eeeewwwww Ubuntu |
| 20:10.11 | _abc_ | NewGnuGuy: please never link to answers which may be systemd contaminated |
| 20:10.19 | _abc_ | NewGnuGuy: this link is so, yours |
| 20:10.32 | msiism | _abc_: https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=1953 |
| 20:10.37 | _abc_ | ^ that is the link |
| 20:10.39 | Juesto | I've configured it on fedora correctly |
| 20:10.42 | _abc_ | There are explanations at the bottom |
| 20:10.53 | muep | if you look at the answer, the instructions have nothing to do with systemd |
| 20:11.08 | _abc_ | Juesto: fedora uses systemd. devuan does not. LAST TIME: NEVER REFERENCE A SYSTEMD RELATED HOWTO WHEN A DEVUAN HOWTO EXISTS FOR THAT ISSUE. |
| 20:11.11 | muep | it explains how you can stop windows from messing with the clock |
| 20:11.18 | Juesto | ugh |
| 20:11.31 | Juesto | alright thanks |
| 20:11.39 | _abc_ | muep: if you look at the forum message msiism linked you will see that this deals with the linux systemd side of things |
| 20:12.13 | _abc_ | muep: windows is not "messing with the clock". It does what it always did, runs it on localtime. |
| 20:12.14 | msiism | _abc_: please never put systemd in caps in this channel :P |
| 20:12.19 | _abc_ | AGREE |
| 20:12.29 | muep | _abc_: windows has an option to keep RTC in UTC time |
| 20:12.59 | _abc_ | Note I am running my system as dual boot with windows and I have the clock set up exactly as in the howto in msiism's forum link, and it works perfectly in jessie and ascii |
| 20:13.04 | _abc_ | devuan both of course |
| 20:13.31 | NewGnuGuy | _abc_: oh please, the instruction offered by my link merely show you how to fix Window's incorrect practice of setting the hwclock to localtime instead of UTC |
| 20:13.37 | _abc_ | muep: yes but it is not standard and every reinstall / restore from media / rescue wipes that setting |
| 20:13.51 | _abc_ | It is not an "incorrect practice" |
| 20:14.04 | _abc_ | Every clock on this planet runs on localtime, excepting for special clocks. |
| 20:14.07 | NewGnuGuy | The problem is on the Windows side, not the Devuan side |
| 20:14.15 | _abc_ | The problem is what I said it is. |
| 20:14.32 | msiism | _abc_: about the howto you would like to write. you could simply put that into the "Documentation" section of the forum. |
| 20:14.49 | msiism | runs on utc (sort of) |
| 20:14.57 | _abc_ | msiism: Looks like I and markdown are becoming better friends, something should come out of it |
| 20:15.17 | muep | imo it is a bad practice with difficult to understand handling for the RTC. at the option of having to change one of the two OSes to non-default handling, I choose to select the one where there is no discontinuity in RTC |
| 20:15.21 | msiism | _abc_: or, if you have a wiki account, you could put it on the wiki. |
| 20:15.40 | msiism | _abc_: anyway, a howto would be appreciated. |
| 20:15.49 | _abc_ | muep: Please, everyone and their sisters, 90% of computer users for sure, use localtime on ALL their clocks, watches, microwaves, phones, whatever. |
| 20:16.09 | muep | I don't read my clock directly from the RTC |
| 20:16.32 | koollman | _abc_: that's displayed time, not stored time |
| 20:16.37 | _abc_ | Nobody cares what one particular individual does. There is consensus that running local clocks on UTC is confusing. |
| 20:16.44 | muep | if RTC is local time, how can the OS actually read it right if the system is booted during the last hour of DST? |
| 20:17.08 | koollman | there's a pretty large consensus on unix timestamp, which is not local time :) |
| 20:17.09 | muep | or first hour of non-DST? |
| 20:17.29 | _abc_ | the linux kernel figures out what the clock does and runs internally on utc |
| 20:17.36 | _abc_ | it is explained exactly in my howto |
| 20:17.44 | _abc_ | and yes dst must die in fire |
| 20:17.54 | _abc_ | they almost voted it out this year, let's wait for another. |
| 20:18.20 | muep | if the RTC is at 2:30 AM, how does the OS know if that's 30 minutes before the transition from 3 AM to 2 AM or 30 minutes after it? |
| 20:18.31 | muep | the other OS could have moved it already |
| 20:18.36 | _abc_ | You should not reboot at critical times without due care. |
| 20:19.19 | muep | or you can use a setting where the RTC is always consistent and not get a weird corner case |
| 20:19.40 | muep | and at other times of year, this has absolutely no visible effect to the user |
| 20:19.42 | _abc_ | If you are really worried about exact time, get a gps module for $28 and get exact utc all the time |
| 20:19.46 | _abc_ | It is supported in the kernel |
| 20:20.01 | Juesto | aka getting a real hwclock |
| 20:20.17 | _abc_ | What you do in your house is your own business, please don't tell 6 billion people what to do, they will NEVER listen. |
| 20:20.22 | _abc_ | Juesto: yes |
| 20:20.23 | Juesto | anyway where do you tell windows to use utc |
| 20:20.35 | _abc_ | Juesto: the howtos the others linked |
| 20:20.41 | Juesto | oh ok |
| 20:20.49 | muep | there were two links to such instructions |
| 20:22.58 | *** join/#devuan mcr (~mcr@2607:f0b0:f:b:a11:96ff:fe01:81e0) |
| 20:28.08 | _abc_ | And yes you will live interesting times. The mods foisted into the kernel by systemd are a threat to every aspect of the kernel. The thread linked in my howto (at the bottom of the howto, on debian forums), is worth reading for anyone who does not understand how bad the rot is already. |
| 20:29.34 | muep | mods foisted into kernel? |
| 20:30.22 | _abc_ | As I wrote here, I identified another package in devuan ascii which refuses to work in a normal way. It is xoscope. It used to be able to use a sound card/mic input. Not anymore. The version shipped with ascii and in devuan ascii is compiled without sound card support since it does not work right under pulseaudio (systemd author related!), so they simply ship it disabled. I had to load alsa, alsa-oss compat |
| 20:30.28 | _abc_ | dev libs, pull xoscope source from debian packages, and configure and build it, and it works as it used to! |
| 20:30.34 | _abc_ | muep: did you read the thread linked in the forum message? |
| 20:30.41 | _abc_ | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=855203 this thread |
| 20:31.02 | _abc_ | These people simply rip out what they don't like or what gets in the way of their feature-prone bug collection called systemd |
| 20:31.15 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:ed00:7508:b187:58b8:1a35) |
| 20:31.22 | _abc_ | And other related "agile development method" controlled projects, like pulse |
| 20:31.58 | _abc_ | They simply broke the existing hwclock subsystem because someone decreed it will be done by systemd later. |
| 20:32.04 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-49-17.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 20:32.51 | NewGnuGuy | "feature-prone bug collection" lol |
| 20:33.23 | msiism | _abc_: could you maybe provide a normal-working package of xoscope for beowulf? |
| 20:33.35 | muep | I did not read that fully yet because it is quite long, but the initial impression is that there was just a mistake in how two programs avoid stepping on toes of each other |
| 20:33.54 | _abc_ | Hm? It works fine if compiled after ./configure with alsa drivers and alsa oss compat dev package present |
| 20:33.59 | _abc_ | xoscope msiism ^ |
| 20:34.11 | _abc_ | muep: which beowulf? |
| 20:34.19 | msiism | _abc_: ok, then i got that wrong. |
| 20:34.34 | _abc_ | msiism: yes and they solved it in the "usual" way which is the cause for the need for my howto. |
| 20:35.14 | _abc_ | msiism: you didn't, but the debian maintainers build the packages in the standard system, which is systemd contaminated. This results in improper oss support at xoscope ./configure time |
| 20:35.31 | _abc_ | msiism: another sneaky way to shoot us in the foot. I am sure there are many other affected packages. |
| 20:35.42 | _abc_ | Going to install audacity soon. We'll see. |
| 20:35.48 | msiism | _abc_: so it works with just alsa? |
| 20:35.49 | _abc_ | And sox |
| 20:36.16 | _abc_ | msiism: yes. The breakage results from ./configure in xoscope not finding proper oss support and compiling without sound card support |
| 20:36.41 | _abc_ | msiism: iow, the binary shipped by debian and that's what you get in devuan is not able to work with oss, it needs recompiling from source |
| 20:37.26 | _abc_ | rephrased #2: to be sure systemd contamination is as low as possible, rebuild all packages from source on a working *devuan* system. |
| 20:37.41 | msiism | _abc_: ok, so it's not a pulseaudio vs. alsa problem. |
| 20:37.43 | _abc_ | Preferrably with other bug collections like pulseaudio also purged and replaced with things which work |
| 20:37.48 | _abc_ | msiism: yes it is. |
| 20:38.07 | _abc_ | msiism: the bad build was simply built on a standard system with pusleaudio on and alsa off |
| 20:39.21 | _abc_ | the ./configure simply concluded there is no soundcard support and only built for COMEDI support |
| 20:39.21 | _abc_ | Comedi is nice but that is beyond the point. |
| 20:40.18 | _abc_ | I am sort of pissed that nobody writes these things up as they come. |
| 20:40.25 | msiism | _abc_: ok, so you had to rebuild from the src package to make it work. |
| 20:40.36 | msiism | _abc_: do you have a wiki account? |
| 20:40.47 | _abc_ | yes, on devuan, after removing pulse and putting in alsa and oss alsa compat |
| 20:40.49 | _abc_ | msiism: no |
| 20:40.53 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: wpasupplicant is installed |
| 20:41.04 | _abc_ | I conly come here on weekends when I let off some steam. Heh. |
| 20:41.31 | _abc_ | also wrt refracta installer: it left a huge log file in my $home. Is that normal? |
| 20:41.55 | _abc_ | msiism: eventually I'll get an account since the wiki is important. |
| 20:42.10 | _abc_ | Have other fires to put out though, in real life, very little time for this. |
| 20:42.11 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:ed00:7508:b187:58b8:1a35) |
| 20:43.02 | msiism | _abc_: ok. well, it would be good if you could put your write-ups on these things either on the forum or into the wiki (in addition or after discussing things here). |
| 20:44.10 | _abc_ | yes, eventually. As I said, I'm becoming better friends with markdown, had a stressfull week and upgraded a laptop in between with Z partitions to move and check etc. |
| 20:44.38 | msiism | _abc_: eventually, there should be bug reports, if that's in any way possible. |
| 20:44.41 | msiism | _abc_: ok, i see. |
| 20:45.41 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: What does `apt list wpasupplicant` return? |
| 20:47.47 | NewGnuGuy | _abc_ "feature-prone bug collection". Reminds me of Bluetooth, truly the systemd of wireless protocols |
| 20:48.13 | _abc_ | Oh yes. I tried to get a headset going with devuan after install, not ok. |
| 20:48.40 | _abc_ | Bluetooth is like unix. It has very good friends, who are few, and it's hard to enter the elite circle. |
| 20:49.16 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: that it's installed |
| 20:49.32 | msiism | _abc_: i doubt that's a valid comparison. |
| 20:50.17 | _abc_ | Hey this is like the old joke that it doesn't matter whom you know, what matters is, who knows you. |
| 20:50.28 | _abc_ | I don't find that funny, having been bitten a few times like this. |
| 20:51.24 | NewGnuGuy | _abc_: The A2DP bluetooth profile in bluez 5 literally requires PulseAudio >:-O |
| 20:52.32 | Juesto | ... |
| 20:52.58 | NewGnuGuy | _abc_: Bluetooth has no friends. It is a mutant abomination: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bluetooth_profiles |
| 20:53.02 | _abc_ | NewGnuGuy: yes but there are workarounds from third parties |
| 20:53.19 | _abc_ | In alsa I mean |
| 20:53.55 | msiism | KatolaZ: about the missing translations in d-i. the only thing that is not translated in the standard install now, apart from some items in tasksel (which is ok), is the popcon dialog window content. i guess there are translations for that which could be copied from debian. so, this might be fixed easily. |
| 20:54.26 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: There's more in the output of that command than just "wpasupplicant:installed". I want to see the rest, please |
| 20:56.13 | _abc_ | NewGnuGuy: the painful part is, the same headset works on the android phone (linux!) |
| 20:56.21 | _abc_ | I think android does not use pulse not sure. |
| 20:56.48 | muep | android does not use much of the typical GNU/Linux userspace |
| 20:56.54 | Juesto | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:57.23 | Juesto | you could have asked for the version straight away if that's what you wanted to know |
| 20:57.33 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: thank you |
| 20:58.33 | Juesto | I'm on maemo leste btw |
| 20:59.44 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: I thought maemo leste only targeted arm. It targets amd64 too? |
| 20:59.57 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: the VM does, yes |
| 21:00.26 | Juesto | I'm running it directly on a laptop |
| 21:00.41 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: see the images offered :) |
| 21:01.57 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: What's the advantage of running maemo leste on a laptop over straight devuan? |
| 21:02.07 | Juesto | none, just curious |
| 21:02.24 | Juesto | and my laptop is a 2-in-1 one does have |
| 21:02.31 | Juesto | does have touchscreen |
| 21:03.57 | Juesto | i don't have a device yet I'm interested on the OS ;) |
| 21:04.01 | Juesto | :p |
| 21:04.17 | Juesto | i mean it's quite difficult to find one to buy |
| 21:05.44 | Juesto | there's no wpasupplicant service at all |
| 21:05.47 | Juesto | i couldn't find |
| 21:05.58 | NewGnuGuy | Are you using a integrated wireless adapter or an external usb one? |
| 21:06.34 | Juesto | it's a combo rt3290 wifi+bt NewGnuGuy |
| 21:09.29 | Juesto | i haven't had luck getting bt to work on linux |
| 21:09.58 | msiism | i've just installed ascii on a testing machine and now can't get my network to work. i'm on the cli with nothing installed from tasksel. i've already tried getting /etc/network/interfaces right, but had no luck so far. |
| 21:10.09 | Juesto | and the problem in leste is that wpa_supplicant isn't running nor is a initscript at all |
| 21:10.29 | msiism | there's just 'lo' and 'eth0' in there, as far as interfaces go. |
| 21:12.32 | msiism | and for eth0 it says: allow-hotplug eth0, iface eth0 inet dhcp, iface eth0 inet6 auto (each on a line of its own). |
| 21:12.52 | Juesto | Maybe you missed a driver |
| 21:12.53 | NewGnuGuy | Juesto: According to https://h-node.org/wifi/view/en/1370/Ralink-corp--RT3290-Wireless-802-11n-1T-1R-PCIe/ that wireless adapter doesn't work with free software |
| 21:13.02 | Juesto | oh well |
| 21:13.05 | msiism | ok, justrelized i do not have dhcp-client installed. |
| 21:13.55 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: ... i don't really care whatever its foss or not really |
| 21:14.15 | Juesto | i have a problem with wpa_supplicant |
| 21:14.22 | Juesto | the card is detected |
| 21:15.18 | NewGnuGuy | Is it detected by `ip addr`? |
| 21:15.31 | Juesto | the interface exists, NewGnuGuy |
| 21:16.13 | NewGnuGuy | That's not what I asked. Is it detected by `ip addr`? |
| 21:17.09 | Juesto | -_- |
| 21:17.17 | Juesto | Is it really necessary? |
| 21:17.27 | NewGnuGuy | yes, it really is |
| 21:17.43 | muep | at the very least it should be in ip link |
| 21:18.06 | NewGnuGuy | ^ |
| 21:18.57 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: the interface itself is available |
| 21:19.29 | Juesto | it's interface is down because no wifi connected |
| 21:19.47 | Juesto | and again, the issue is with wpa_supplicant |
| 21:19.51 | Juesto | not the hardware |
| 21:21.52 | NewGnuGuy | if the hardware requires non-free firmware to support encryption (which is true of some controllers) it could be the cause of issues with wpa_supplicant |
| 21:22.34 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: how do i troubleshoot whatever wpa_supplicant is just plain not running or failing |
| 21:24.52 | NewGnuGuy | is wpa_supplicant or one of its binaries appearing in you process list (viewable with htop or ps) ? |
| 21:26.05 | Juesto | no |
| 21:26.58 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: no. |
| 21:30.47 | NewGnuGuy | When you try to run it, does it output any error? If so, could you post that on a pastebin? |
| 21:36.12 | Juesto | NewGnuGuy: wlan doesn't show up in ifconfig |
| 21:36.21 | Juesto | wlan0* |
| 21:36.55 | NewGnuGuy | But it does in `ip link`? |
| 21:37.03 | Juesto | the flags given for wlan0 is 4098 |
| 21:37.20 | Juesto | why it's detecting it as Ethernet? |
| 21:37.41 | Juesto | its driver is rt2800pci NewGnuGuy |
| 21:39.54 | Juesto | I'm installing the nonfree firmware package |
| 21:40.35 | Juesto | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:40.50 | Juesto | didn't exist |
| 21:44.24 | _abc_ | wlan shows up only in ifconfig -a if it's not up normally |
| 21:45.53 | Juesto | yeah it shows up in that case |
| 21:48.20 | KatolaZ | Juesto: it would be /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 21:51.15 | Juesto | ah |
| 21:51.27 | Juesto | not present either, KatolaZ |
| 21:51.37 | KatolaZ | Juesto: what is the problem exactly? |
| 21:51.51 | KatolaZ | (sorry haven't read the backlog :( ) |
| 21:54.08 | Juesto | KatolaZ: wpa_supplicant isn't working |
| 21:54.29 | Juesto | and thus anything trying to use it is failing |
| 21:54.48 | KatolaZ | Juesto: define "not working", please |
| 21:55.07 | KatolaZ | Juesto: I assume you know how to use wpa_supplicant from the command line |
| 21:55.14 | KatolaZ | stop me if this is not the case |
| 21:57.05 | Juesto | fixed, wpasupplicant is up, NewGnuGuy |
| 21:57.17 | KatolaZ | cool Juesto :) |
| 21:57.28 | Juesto | but it's not running automatically KatolaZ |
| 21:57.37 | KatolaZ | why should it? |
| 21:58.30 | Juesto | i don't know, I'm on maemo leste |
| 21:58.54 | Juesto | there's no initscript for wpa supplicant from what I've seen |
| 21:59.11 | KatolaZ | you don't need one |
| 21:59.13 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:59.25 | KatolaZ | if you want wpa_supplicant to be run automatically |
| 21:59.29 | KatolaZ | you should add |
| 21:59.38 | KatolaZ | wpa-conf /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 21:59.50 | KatolaZ | to your /etc/network/interfaces |
| 22:01.34 | KatolaZ | (well, in the section of your wlan device, obviously) |
| 22:02.07 | fsmithred | _abc_, what file did refractainstaller leave in your home? (should be the error log) |
| 22:04.38 | _abc_ | That's it. |
| 22:04.48 | Juesto | why many configuration stuff missing |
| 22:04.53 | Juesto | i don't get it |
| 22:04.56 | _abc_ | Does that mean that it errored out or is that done anyway fsmithred |
| 22:05.58 | KatolaZ | Juesto: ? |
| 22:06.24 | Juesto | done, wlan0 was commented in interfaces |
| 22:06.52 | KatolaZ | Juesto: did you configure and use wlan at install time? |
| 22:07.06 | fsmithred | no, it always puts it there |
| 22:07.08 | Juesto | KatolaZ: it's maemo leste vm image |
| 22:07.35 | fsmithred | unless it crashes before the script is finished. Copying the log from /var/log to the user's home is the last thing it does. |
| 22:07.56 | KatolaZ | Juesto: so how should it know that you want to use wlan? |
| 22:07.57 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 22:08.06 | Juesto | l |
| 22:08.09 | Juesto | lol |
| 22:09.02 | fsmithred | _abc_, if you have ideas about the installer, pm me so we don't disturb the others. I'm definitely interested in any problems that anyone has with it. |
| 22:09.41 | Juesto | how do i start the system without being forced to wait for dhcp |
| 22:09.59 | fsmithred | ctrl-c? |
| 22:10.28 | _abc_ | fsmithred: okay. So, again, is it normal to have the script log in $HOME on success? I interrupted the process 2-3 times for reasons until I went to the end. |
| 22:10.28 | Juesto | that isn't good it aborts the entire processing i think, fsmithred |
| 22:10.51 | KatolaZ | no Juesto it doesn't |
| 22:10.55 | fsmithred | yes, Juesto it stops it from trying to get an address and continues booting |
| 22:11.20 | fsmithred | _abc_, yeah, the log should get copied there normally |
| 22:11.35 | _abc_ | fsmithred: the most important points here and now, wrt refracta in ascii on devuan desktop live: a) make sure package grub2 is installed b) add some blurb page/screen on commands to install grub2 from the chrooted cli, I missed that twice until the coin dropped. |
| 22:11.59 | fsmithred | that's the more difficult way to do it |
| 22:12.07 | _abc_ | The warning is confusing, it should say "you need to issue commands in the cli to install grub2 else there will be no boot loader" |
| 22:12.13 | fsmithred | if you use a devuan or refracta live iso... |
| 22:12.16 | Juesto | fsmithred: but there's more stuff to execute after eth0 dhcp attempt |
| 22:12.18 | fsmithred | you don['t need to issue commands |
| 22:12.30 | _abc_ | fsmithred: desktop live is different? |
| 22:12.54 | fsmithred | Juesto, I've done it many times - when the DHCPDISCOVER message keeps coming up, ctrl-c will stop it from trying to get an address, and the boot will continue |
| 22:12.55 | _abc_ | fsmithred: anyway: I installed from a live system as above with persistence, i.e. there was a LOT more on it than on the iso image |
| 22:12.59 | fsmithred | you can get the address later |
| 22:13.01 | _abc_ | And it worked fine |
| 22:13.20 | Juesto | fsmithred: openrc reports a sighup on it |
| 22:13.22 | fsmithred | yeah, the installer uses rsync to copy the running system |
| 22:13.34 | fsmithred | oh, I never tried it with openrc. sorry. |
| 22:13.48 | Juesto | commenting the dhcp stuff did make boot faster |
| 22:13.48 | _abc_ | fsmithred: It was a little over-enthusiastic, I kept some large backups on the persistence media and it tried to copy those in too. |
| 22:14.02 | fsmithred | yes, that's what it would do |
| 22:14.13 | fsmithred | you can edit the rsync excludes file for that |
| 22:15.21 | fsmithred | hang on, my brain needs to sync |
| 22:15.29 | fsmithred | about grub |
| 22:15.40 | fsmithred | if you boot in uefi, the correct grub is already installed |
| 22:16.00 | fsmithred | if you boot bios, the installer will recognize that and look for grub-pc deb |
| 22:16.24 | fsmithred | in devuan desktop-live and refracta isos, the grub pc deb is in the root (/) |
| 22:16.39 | fsmithred | and there will be a button that says 'Copy files' |
| 22:17.05 | fsmithred | select that, and grub-pc will be installed. debconf will ask you where you want the bootloader (in the terminal) |
| 22:17.27 | *** join/#devuan gattuso (~gattuso@pompel.me) |
| 22:17.42 | fsmithred | if the deb is not there, it will cause an error (fixed in next version) |
| 22:18.44 | Juesto | apparently disabling the dhcp line invalidates the interface |
| 22:18.55 | Juesto | ifup says unknown interface eth0 |
| 22:19.21 | KatolaZ | Juesto: ifconfig eth0 up |
| 22:21.31 | Juesto | KatolaZ: it goes down afterwards because it's not plugged |
| 22:21.33 | Juesto | so |
| 22:21.39 | Juesto | well there it goes |
| 22:22.18 | Juesto | uninstalled firmware-misc-nonfree |
| 22:23.56 | Juesto | great now |
| 22:24.03 | Juesto | now it's not as annoying |
| 22:25.36 | Juesto | I've ignored the dhcp line because it's not necessary because it's usually unplugged |
| 22:25.52 | Juesto | and I've made the wifi go before ethernet |
| 22:26.25 | KatolaZ | Juesto: you should have it "allow-hotplut eth0" maybe |
| 22:26.35 | KatolaZ | ~allow-hotplug |
| 22:26.37 | Juesto | hmm maybe |
| 22:26.42 | fsmithred | or just use 'dhclient eth0' when you want to use it |
| 22:27.06 | Juesto | yeah that too |
| 22:27.17 | Juesto | using the hotplug one sounds better |
| 22:27.26 | Juesto | along with ignoring dhcp |
| 22:27.55 | Juesto | also, /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf is the default |
| 22:28.06 | Juesto | wpa_supplicant itself says in the example |
| 22:28.19 | KatolaZ | Juesto: not in Devuan/Debian |
| 22:28.22 | Juesto | and it's the file it tries when not using parameters |
| 22:28.30 | Juesto | Oh well |
| 22:28.34 | KatolaZ | the default is in /etc/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf |
| 22:29.43 | Juesto | what i should do? |
| 22:29.56 | Juesto | but it conplains when the config file doesn't exist |
| 22:30.07 | Juesto | which seems to be the case by default? |
| 22:30.08 | KatolaZ | Juesto: how are you starting it? |
| 22:30.50 | KatolaZ | if you included the wpa_conf parameter in /etc/network/interfaces, it will use the conf file you specified |
| 22:30.58 | Juesto | and if not? |
| 22:31.01 | Juesto | it's not used? |
| 22:31.13 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 22:31.24 | KatolaZ | what is not used? |
| 22:31.34 | Juesto | what happens if the config line is omitted |
| 22:31.43 | Juesto | wpa_conf parameter |
| 22:32.01 | KatolaZ | that wpa_supplicant is not run automatically when the interface comes up |
| 22:35.17 | *** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 22:38.57 | Juesto | weird |
| 22:39.15 | Juesto | if the dhcp line is not in interfaces file or commented |
| 22:39.25 | Juesto | ifup complains it's unknown |
| 22:39.43 | Juesto | i don't need autoconfigure |
| 22:40.16 | Juesto | and the Ethernet just connected fine without needing to run dhclient |
| 22:41.32 | Juesto | ... |
| 22:55.13 | *** join/#devuan DoNut (~dinohrdr@24.229.156.32.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 22:56.32 | Juesto | I'm undecided at how i should leave it |
| 22:59.58 | *** part/#devuan msiism (~msiism@200116b845298500ee086bfffe1ced28.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 23:00.39 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 23:07.16 | *** join/#devuan indeo (indeo@hilla.kapsi.fi) |
| 23:07.26 | DoNut | Using devuan ascii on a Pi3 bluetooth notworking. Boot raspbian and bluetooth works. What am I missing. |
| 23:15.58 | *** join/#devuan r00tobo (~r00tobo@unaffiliated/r00tobo) |
| 23:17.00 | *** join/#devuan DoNut (~dinohrdr@24.229.156.32.res-cmts.sm.ptd.net) |
| 23:17.47 | Juesto | DoNut: firmware drivers |
| 23:17.58 | Juesto | check packages |
| 23:18.24 | DoNut | Used firmware from raspbian |
| 23:20.32 | DoNut | Should dmesg show firmware load on the Pi. It does for a USB dongle on a AMD system. |
| 23:20.54 | Juesto | what if you instead migrate your installed raspbian to devuan maybe instead? |
| 23:28.23 | *** join/#devuan snk77 (~FossaMail@190.red-81-39-127.dynamicip.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:38.54 | DoNut | Compiling linux on a Pi zero 16hrs. Cross compile on a amd system 12 mins. |
| 23:39.20 | aitor | hi |
| 23:42.07 | aitor | today i've been packaging linux-libre-4.6.103 for jessie |
| 23:43.12 | Juesto | DoNut: check in lspci, etc |
| 23:45.51 | gnarface | DoNut: i think the answer to both those issues comes down to kernel configuration, however i can't be certain raspbian |
| 23:46.09 | gnarface | ... can't be certain raspbian's firmware will work with other kernel versions |
| 23:46.21 | gnarface | it may even require an accompanying kernel patch |
| 23:46.50 | gnarface | i'm not sure about that, but i think other people *have* got these working with Devuan |
| 23:47.59 | DoNut | It's something simple I am overlooking, I am sure. |
| 23:49.24 | DoNut | modules both builtin and modprobed are the same except one I'll try that. |
| 23:50.22 | *** join/#devuan avis (~tomahawk@pdpc/supporter/student/avis) |
| 23:50.31 | aitor | *4.9.103 |
| 23:52.33 | DoNut | Right now I am doing a full upgrade of ascii to see if that changes something. |