| 00:20.28 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:20.28 | *** topic/#devuan is Latest (2018-05-10): ASCII 2.0.0 release candidate is out! http://tinyurl.com/y9pta5vm || Stable (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ | Chanlogs: https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan |
| 00:20.28 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:23.40 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.57) |
| 00:25.16 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 00:33.14 | *** join/#devuan theLambda (~theLambda@mue-88-130-62-010.dsl.tropolys.de) |
| 00:42.18 | *** join/#devuan Tom_- (~tomg@64-7-151-61.border7-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca) |
| 00:43.08 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 00:44.19 | *** part/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 00:59.20 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.57) |
| 01:05.20 | *** join/#devuan bill-auger (~quassel@75-138-187-221.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com) |
| 01:25.13 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.57) |
| 01:27.23 | *** join/#devuan bellpeppersbeef (~pepper@c-73-72-138-19.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:29.44 | *** join/#devuan Hoshpak (~Hoshpak@200116b800489600816d7987258cc794.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 01:30.54 | *** join/#devuan Human_G33k (~HumanG33k@62.147.242.8) |
| 01:37.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | any python wizard around willing to help me out in a /query for a minute or two? |
| 01:38.19 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 01:39.14 | *** join/#devuan attos1 (~nix@x590ca357.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:47.21 | *** join/#devuan Humpelstilzchen (erik@p4FD034C1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:04.29 | *** join/#devuan Tom_- (~tomg@64-7-151-61.border7-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca) |
| 02:15.30 | *** join/#devuan resetpacket (~uidzer0@pool-72-86-40-148.clppva.fios.verizon.net) |
| 03:10.39 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.57) |
| 03:17.42 | *** join/#devuan amarsh04 (~amarsh04@118.211.37.59) |
| 03:25.53 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.57) |
| 03:34.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:473:1100:5fc9:d9e5:fff4:f0cd) |
| 04:15.32 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 04:49.18 | *** join/#devuan nighty-- (~nighty@kyotolabs.asahinet.com) |
| 05:12.53 | *** join/#devuan Tom__ (~tomg@64-7-151-48.border7-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca) |
| 05:26.49 | *** join/#devuan thrasymachus (~thrasymac@c-24-17-18-14.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 05:28.54 | *** join/#devuan mchasard (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 05:31.54 | mchasard | hi |
| 05:36.31 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.57) |
| 06:04.57 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-5d6afe-91.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:13.28 | *** join/#devuan mchasard (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 06:13.59 | mchasard | hi |
| 06:14.20 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:ed00:e444:22e:bcd1:6b3f) |
| 06:17.11 | Kebbe | hello |
| 06:17.41 | mchasard | i had install fluxuan a derivative devuan |
| 06:17.51 | mchasard | but i had some troubles |
| 06:18.37 | Kebbe | fluxuan? |
| 06:18.55 | Kebbe | why not just regular devuan plus fluxbox |
| 06:19.36 | mchasard | yes but after the install i just would like to install guest virtual addons |
| 06:20.24 | Kebbe | whats the problem then? |
| 06:21.36 | mchasard | so i had a virtual optic device but i'm not authorized to open it |
| 06:22.00 | Kebbe | windows? |
| 06:22.08 | Kebbe | if not try as root |
| 06:22.49 | mchasard | yes but as root this device did'nt appears |
| 06:24.24 | Kebbe | ok |
| 06:24.49 | Kebbe | but youre supposed to install the things from the contrib section |
| 06:24.56 | Kebbe | in debian |
| 06:25.49 | mchasard | with a devuan mate i didn't have those trouble |
| 06:26.24 | mchasard | after mounting i launch a command as root and it worked |
| 06:27.01 | Kebbe | try adding contrib to sources.list and inatalling virtualbox-guest-dkms |
| 06:27.28 | bozonius | apparently, I am getting google-chrome-stable from dl.google.com -- is that where I am supposed to get whatever the official package for chromium/chrome is? |
| 06:27.41 | mchasard | hum ok i 'll try again cause u have to reinstall |
| 06:27.54 | Kebbe | sorry |
| 06:28.16 | Kebbe | meant virtualbox-guest-utils |
| 06:34.58 | mchasard | yes |
| 06:47.12 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe2 (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee4d-83.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:47.47 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe2 (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee4d-83.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 07:00.28 | *** join/#devuan antenagora (~antenagor@147.162.137.245) |
| 07:06.07 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 07:15.56 | *** join/#devuan freemangordon_ (~ivo@195.128.225.2) |
| 07:42.07 | *** join/#devuan zarez (~Thunderbi@fs-93-93-44-38.fullsave.info) |
| 07:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | could anybody please help me with converting 4 LOC http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/dQcFFcjPq7 from apache rewrite rule to lighttpd? |
| 07:45.08 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 07:47.35 | *** join/#devuan mchasard (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 07:53.13 | *** join/#devuan mchasard (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 07:55.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't manage to wrap my head around https://redmine.lighttpd.net/projects/1/wiki/MigratingFromApache for http://paste.ubuntu.com/p/8kQCH2XDSJ/ |
| 07:56.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly since lack of apache knowledge, to start with |
| 07:58.32 | detha | DocScrutinizer05: looks like it just punts all access to .../search/ to some CGI script |
| 07:59.22 | detha | no idea how to tell lighttpd that, never used it for more than service some static pages |
| 08:04.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | same here, or less than that |
| 08:05.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually python script, not cgi |
| 08:05.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't matter I guess |
| 08:05.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's the search textbox in e.g. http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog |
| 08:11.25 | detha | so it's a matter of pointing .../seach/?q=foo to run a python as cgi |
| 08:16.41 | *** join/#devuan NewGnuGuy (~NewGnuGuy@72.34.178.57) |
| 08:20.40 | *** join/#devuan Fervi (~fervi@2a02:a317:e144:d900:baac:6fff:fe99:7804) |
| 08:24.06 | *** join/#devuan inhetep (~inhetep@gateway/tor-sasl/inhetep) |
| 08:26.52 | *** join/#devuan clemens3 (~clemens@catv-89-132-160-30.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 08:32.01 | *** join/#devuan oer (~okay@2a01:c23:741c:1300:3252:cbff:fe80:bee7) |
| 08:33.34 | *** join/#devuan oer (~okay@2a01:c23:741c:1300:3252:cbff:fe80:bee7) |
| 08:33.46 | *** join/#devuan opv (~council@opviel.de) |
| 08:40.26 | *** join/#devuan oer (~okay@2a01:c23:741c:1300:3252:cbff:fe80:bee7) |
| 08:42.12 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee4d-83.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:44.14 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee4d-83.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:48.02 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 08:49.20 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I need libxp.so.6 for an older program I have, binary only. It is present in jessie, not in ascii. How do I import a backport of it if it exists? |
| 08:51.09 | _abc_ | Anyone else? |
| 08:51.37 | gnarface | the procedure isn't different from debian, only the sources.list contents |
| 08:51.59 | _abc_ | Also: re: release name ascii: PLEASE use searchable names? ascii has a bazillion hits on google. What's wrong with dascii? |
| 08:52.23 | _abc_ | gnarface: well I am not familiar with the procedure? Please link me? |
| 08:52.27 | gnarface | alphabetical order |
| 08:52.35 | _abc_ | huh? |
| 08:52.38 | gnarface | for the names |
| 08:52.42 | _abc_ | Link or howto please. |
| 08:52.52 | _abc_ | ascii comes after zeta at best. |
| 08:52.55 | _abc_ | brb |
| 08:53.03 | gnarface | https://backports.debian.org/ |
| 08:53.14 | gnarface | (https://backports.debian.org/Instructions/) |
| 08:54.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ascii seems like first char in alphabet (a) and also a minor planet |
| 08:55.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | but maybe there would have been other minor planets starting with "a" and with less than 5 bazillion google hits ;-D |
| 08:56.39 | gnarface | "searching instead for Debian ascii" doesn't help either |
| 08:58.15 | *** join/#devuan oer (~okay@2a01:c23:741c:1300:3252:cbff:fe80:bee7) |
| 08:59.37 | *** join/#devuan ksx4system (~ksx4syste@aura.mgst.eu) |
| 09:02.35 | _abc_ | How about using the 1st char as you like but making the rest of the string not one which has about 800 million hits on google? |
| 09:02.46 | _abc_ | asciidev sounds great too |
| 09:02.53 | KatolaZ | _abc_: do you have 800 million hits for Devuan ASCII? |
| 09:02.55 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 09:03.17 | _abc_ | ascii alone has 35.5 million hits |
| 09:03.30 | _abc_ | ascii devuan has half a million |
| 09:03.37 | KatolaZ | _abc_: devuan ascii? |
| 09:03.40 | _abc_ | you guys have been very prolific apparently |
| 09:03.40 | KatolaZ | o_O |
| 09:03.57 | KatolaZ | I get only 19300 results on google |
| 09:04.06 | gnarface | _abc_: look carefully and make sure it didn't correct your search to Debian ascii |
| 09:04.07 | KatolaZ | maybe your google is more powerful :) |
| 09:04.14 | _abc_ | Yeah delete your google cookies, you're swimming in your own search 'bubble' |
| 09:04.32 | _abc_ | no correction gnarface |
| 09:04.38 | KatolaZ | _abc_: this is the first time I open google in 4 months |
| 09:04.53 | _abc_ | But I *do* clean out google and other cookies with every browser start. |
| 09:05.02 | KatolaZ | and I keep no cookies |
| 09:05.16 | *** join/#devuan okay_ (~okay@2a01:c23:741c:1300:3252:cbff:fe80:bee7) |
| 09:05.28 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee4d-83.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:05.29 | KatolaZ | (and I am not logged into any google account either) |
| 09:06.09 | _abc_ | http://imgur.com/gRfjZpql.png |
| 09:07.08 | KatolaZ | https://ptpb.pw/dCDf <- _abc_ |
| 09:07.13 | _abc_ | Any questions? You popular guys >;) |
| 09:07.28 | KatolaZ | _abc_: have you tried "devuan ascii"? |
| 09:07.48 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: err that server does not supply a proper mime type, your link opened as text on ong source |
| 09:07.57 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 09:08.02 | KatolaZ | I am viewing it now in firefox |
| 09:08.12 | _abc_ | Yeah, I am not. See above. |
| 09:08.19 | KatolaZ | oh no sorry |
| 09:08.19 | _abc_ | devuan ascii has ~70k hits |
| 09:08.21 | KatolaZ | in surf |
| 09:08.27 | KatolaZ | which is a sane browser :D |
| 09:08.28 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee4d-83.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 09:08.38 | KatolaZ | _abc_: anyway, what's your problem? |
| 09:08.43 | _abc_ | Again, not relevant for what I seek: how to import a libxp.so.6 from jessie or other into devuan ascii? |
| 09:09.59 | KatolaZ | _abc_: what is that about? |
| 09:10.19 | _abc_ | there is no package libxp6 in ascii, there is in jessie |
| 09:10.28 | _abc_ | I have an old binary only program which requires it |
| 09:10.35 | KatolaZ | take the package from jessie |
| 09:10.37 | KatolaZ | and in stall it |
| 09:10.45 | _abc_ | manually? |
| 09:10.45 | KatolaZ | ~install |
| 09:10.49 | KatolaZ | yes |
| 09:10.51 | _abc_ | okay |
| 09:10.57 | KatolaZ | you can try that |
| 09:11.11 | Kebbe | compile? |
| 09:11.14 | _abc_ | https://stackoverflow.com/questions/42350781/unable-to-locate-package-libxp6-on-ubuntu-16-10 note I am far from being the first one hitting this problem, nor is it isolated to ascii |
| 09:11.26 | Kebbe | compile the program |
| 09:11.34 | _abc_ | And yes I can compile it, probably, unless the reason for discontinuation is difficulty in compiling it |
| 09:11.47 | _abc_ | Asking here is much easyer than both. Streetlight effect >;) |
| 09:12.18 | Kebbe | maybe download it and extract |
| 09:12.27 | Kebbe | the pacakge from the website |
| 09:14.06 | _abc_ | I notice that ascii dpkg runs much faster than on jessie, on the same hw |
| 09:14.18 | _abc_ | The sync problem was probably addressed in the interim? Was it? |
| 09:15.02 | KatolaZ | _abc_: which sync problem? |
| 09:16.23 | _abc_ | dpkg was very slow in jessie |
| 09:16.30 | _abc_ | synaptic and aptitude too as a result |
| 09:16.40 | _abc_ | something about sync writes on every write access and such |
| 09:17.03 | _abc_ | I can't seem to make an older program which requires alsa or oss type inputs on audio work with pulseaudio on. |
| 09:17.17 | _abc_ | What's the pulse to alsa / oss compat package please? |
| 09:19.30 | _abc_ | osspd-pulseaudio perhaps? |
| 09:22.44 | _abc_ | /dev/dsp exists, /dev/audio does not exist. What creates /dev/audio please? |
| 09:24.08 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-157.home.otenet.gr) |
| 09:25.13 | _abc_ | upgrading from pulseaudio to alsa |
| 09:26.27 | _abc_ | why does synaptic mark xfce4 and various desktop parts for removal upon marking libpulse-mainloop-glib0 for removal?! |
| 09:27.03 | _abc_ | marking libpulse0 for removal even wants to remove arduino and blender! |
| 09:27.14 | _abc_ | What did you let Poettering do! What are these deps?! Guys? |
| 09:29.34 | KatolaZ | _abc_: what did "we" let Pottering do?!? o_O |
| 09:29.39 | *** join/#devuan devuanuser (~francoise@p50858AD1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:29.43 | devuanuser | hey all |
| 09:29.48 | devuanuser | i would like to know how long devuan jessie will be supported |
| 09:30.09 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: the libs above seem to think they can reverse-dep uninstall half the system |
| 09:30.26 | KatolaZ | _abc_: go ask Debian |
| 09:30.37 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 09:31.16 | KatolaZ | _abc_: to stop using pulseaudio you should just remove the pulseaudio daemon |
| 09:31.18 | KatolaZ | fullstop |
| 09:34.43 | _abc_ | When I try to uninstall pulseaudio I get 2 broken packages. One is marked in synaptic, the other one is not! |
| 09:35.02 | KatolaZ | uh? |
| 09:35.04 | _abc_ | How in heck can one work with broken tools. How do I find the other broken package? |
| 09:35.17 | KatolaZ | _abc_: which broken packages?!? |
| 09:35.34 | _abc_ | one is a plugin and the other one is what I can't find |
| 09:36.19 | _abc_ | What kind of bork is this. I tagged packages in synaptic for removal, moved to all view, none are tagged |
| 09:38.22 | _abc_ | And now it fixed itself without any other error message. What the fooh. |
| 09:38.32 | _abc_ | Guys, someone is emulating windows 100% bug for bug |
| 09:39.54 | KatolaZ | yeah _abc_, sure... |
| 10:00.56 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee4d-83.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:05.58 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:473:1100:5fc9:d9e5:fff4:f0cd) |
| 10:14.09 | *** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@109.133.197.115) |
| 10:15.47 | *** join/#devuan markong (~marco@199.21.149.141) |
| 10:24.45 | *** join/#devuan clemens3 (~clemens@catv-89-132-160-30.catv.broadband.hu) |
| 10:29.39 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 10:33.27 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-42-140.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 10:41.34 | *** join/#devuan inhetep (~inhetep@gateway/tor-sasl/inhetep) |
| 10:45.17 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 11:01.24 | _abc_ | Wow sound with pulse is an adventure once one leaves any kind of beaten path |
| 11:01.25 | _abc_ | alsa++ |
| 11:01.47 | _abc_ | Do the compatibility modules with alsa /dev/dsp still exist? |
| 11:02.19 | _abc_ | I have things which are so old they require that |
| 11:03.16 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@anon-35-193.vpn.ipredator.se) |
| 11:11.22 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:473:1100:5fc9:d9e5:fff4:f0cd) |
| 11:11.56 | *** join/#devuan inhetep (~inhetep@gateway/tor-sasl/inhetep) |
| 11:20.09 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee3d-41.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:20.27 | *** join/#devuan jmic (~jmic@li171-92.members.linode.com) |
| 11:26.31 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 11:32.18 | *** join/#devuan technoidX (~technoid@50-26-187-10.abilcmtk01.res.dyn.suddenlink.net) |
| 11:36.17 | _abc_ | Where are the installed package lists and files kept? By apt or dpkg? No mention in the manual pages where they are. Do I have to use strace to find out? |
| 11:43.21 | fsmithred | _abc_, /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.list |
| 11:49.40 | _abc_ | poettering bug in ascii: package xoscope finds no sound card, even if present. Details: package compiled on/for pulseaudio enabled system which has no /dev/dsp unless explicitly loaded compatibility. Idiots assumed this is okay and released the package crippled (configure says ALSA and ESD off). Remedy: uninstall xoscope, install source xoscope, install libasound-dev (while on alsa sound), configure compile |
| 11:49.46 | _abc_ | an install xoscope |
| 11:50.22 | _abc_ | fsmithred: thanks, found it. The cat herding exercise which debian is sometimes drives me insane. I am used to slackware, and doing everything by hand. |
| 11:50.28 | _abc_ | <sometimes I lose it> |
| 11:50.37 | _abc_ | <like some time ago when I asked as above> |
| 11:51.26 | _abc_ | I am beginning to get really pissed at poetteringed systems |
| 11:51.41 | _abc_ | Like 4 out of 10 applications I need need manual rebuilding and worse to get them to work |
| 11:51.56 | _abc_ | Wasted 1.5 hours on these things and removing pulseaudio as a result. |
| 11:52.04 | _abc_ | <done for now> |
| 11:52.22 | KatolaZ | _abc_: you are welcome to help maintaining those packages |
| 11:52.44 | KatolaZ | unforutnately complaining alone has never made a good distro :\ |
| 11:52.45 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: see patches at peter5.50webs.com near the bottom. There's a date on them too... |
| 11:52.59 | _abc_ | That's my page btw. peter5.50webs.com/free |
| 11:53.03 | _abc_ | bbl |
| 11:53.05 | KatolaZ | _abc_: we need maintainers, not patches |
| 11:53.09 | KatolaZ | pathing is easy |
| 11:55.35 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee25-104.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 11:58.12 | _abc_ | Patchers are usually capable to compile the package and also to notice failure to compile. As a minimum implied skill set ;) |
| 11:58.45 | _abc_ | Also ime patching open sores with undocumented coding "features" in them is an adventure. I happen to like to do that. |
| 12:07.44 | *** join/#devuan Kobaz (~kobaz@its.kobaz.net) |
| 12:08.29 | *** join/#devuan fleeky (~fleeky@75-101-60-65.dsl.static.fusionbroadband.com) |
| 12:08.42 | KatolaZ | _abc_: anybody can patch 100 packages in a week-end |
| 12:08.54 | KatolaZ | maintaining them for at least one release cycle is another story |
| 12:08.57 | _abc_ | cough I wrote the patch first. |
| 12:09.02 | _abc_ | Anyway, laters |
| 12:10.02 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee25-104.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:13.04 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@mobile-access-bcee25-104.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 12:35.09 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (chris@2001:470:4134:10::1001) |
| 12:42.05 | *** join/#devuan hgunth (~hgunth@gateway/tor-sasl/hgunth) |
| 12:50.54 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 13:06.01 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.230.94.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 13:18.44 | *** join/#devuan Tuor (~Tuor@ftth-171-119.tbwil.ch) |
| 13:18.44 | *** join/#devuan Tuor (~Tuor@unaffiliated/tuor) |
| 13:34.45 | *** join/#devuan justinsm (~justinsm@82-69-63-196.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 13:52.35 | *** join/#devuan inhetep (~inhetep@gateway/tor-sasl/inhetep) |
| 13:55.47 | *** join/#devuan mchasard_ (~mchasard@i19-les01-ntr-176-186-41-167.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr) |
| 14:06.03 | *** join/#devuan okay_ (~okay@x5ce4e978.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 14:13.01 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@211.114.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 14:16.43 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss_ (~Oldmoss@185.206.225.34) |
| 14:21.02 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:22.05 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (chris@2001:470:4134:10::1000) |
| 14:25.48 | *** join/#devuan Scartozzo (~flavio@2-238-140-4.ip244.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:28.03 | *** join/#devuan cocoadaemon (~foo@2a01:e35:8a99:e90:1202:b5ff:fe91:e4ca) |
| 14:30.18 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@194.132.145.69) |
| 14:50.58 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 14:59.11 | *** join/#devuan divansantana (~divansant@156.0.193.126) |
| 15:00.07 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:07.56 | *** join/#devuan Guest60246 (bf2362d1@gateway/web/freenode/ip.191.35.98.209) |
| 15:15.24 | *** join/#devuan Schallaven (~Schallave@grad338-038.resnet.yorku.ca) |
| 15:16.52 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 15:18.41 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@212.117.188.100) |
| 15:22.34 | *** join/#devuan Madda (~Madda@2-228-92-98.ip190.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:33.27 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 15:33.57 | *** join/#devuan Squarty (~Squarty@173.249.34.138) |
| 15:34.01 | Squarty | hi all |
| 15:34.24 | Squarty | i would ask you if the latest RC of Devuan Ascii is already compatible with Raspberry Pi 3 B+ |
| 15:36.19 | nemo | Squarty: so claims the announcement.. |
| 15:36.55 | nemo | Squarty: I mean, normally hardware support doesn't regress |
| 15:37.43 | Squarty | no wait |
| 15:37.51 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 15:37.52 | nemo | Squarty: https://devuan.org/os/debian-fork/ascii-rc-announce-050918 explicitly calls out rpi, and the jessie announce more precisely |
| 15:37.55 | nemo | but why wouldn't it |
| 15:38.07 | nemo | not like devuan is that big a diversion from debian |
| 15:38.13 | Squarty | i tried last time to boot devuan on raspberry pi 3 b+ |
| 15:38.16 | Squarty | and i couldn't |
| 15:38.16 | nemo | and systemd cancer hasn't taken over the kernel (yet) |
| 15:38.34 | Squarty | it worked on raspberry pi 3b but not on raspberry pi 3b+ |
| 15:38.35 | nemo | Squarty: ok... any more detail than that? ⺠|
| 15:38.38 | nemo | O_o |
| 15:38.41 | Squarty | nemo let me check |
| 15:38.53 | KatolaZ | Squarty: how long ago was "last time"? |
| 15:39.15 | Squarty | KatolaZ April |
| 15:39.22 | Squarty | nemo give a look here https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=208825 |
| 15:40.13 | Squarty | it happened to me the same thing by booting devuan ascii and jessie on a raspberry pi 3 b+ |
| 15:40.14 | nemo | Squarty: I'd heard about the wifi changes |
| 15:40.20 | nemo | Squarty: but... that shouldn't prevent booting |
| 15:40.27 | Squarty | trust me it prevents |
| 15:40.30 | nemo | nor should power management changes |
| 15:40.32 | Squarty | no |
| 15:40.43 | Squarty | just need to upgrade firmware/kernel before to boot |
| 15:40.48 | nemo | Squarty: do you get anything visible on boot? |
| 15:40.53 | nemo | Squarty: I'm just surprised is all |
| 15:40.56 | Squarty | or use Noob to install it |
| 15:41.32 | KatolaZ | Squarty: I know all the new embedded images have updated kernels (4.14+) |
| 15:41.47 | KatolaZ | but I don't know if the rpi3 image works on the latest b+ |
| 15:41.51 | KatolaZ | parazyd: ^^^^ |
| 15:42.25 | Squarty | KatolaZ ok i will try as soon as i will get home.. i look forward to trash Arch with systemd |
| 15:42.31 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 15:42.52 | KatolaZ | Squarty: I guess it would be possible to liaise with parazyd for further testing |
| 15:43.02 | KatolaZ | he is in charge of embedded images |
| 15:43.09 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 15:44.42 | Squarty | ok i will try to text him, anyway the only thing i remember when i tried was the rainbow screen on monitor, nothing more |
| 15:48.42 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 15:49.06 | sleepingkirby | I even found the post on dev1galaxy but it's not working for me. still thinks packages are broken |
| 15:49.57 | *** join/#devuan ipe (~ipe@91.156.247.55) |
| 15:55.36 | *** join/#devuan amesser (~Andreas@p200300E353C34700F8132FE98E4DF87C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:55.44 | parazyd | Squarty, KatolaZ: the arm64 image works on pi3b+ |
| 15:55.48 | parazyd | Have not tried armhf. |
| 15:58.10 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-43-37.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 15:58.33 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:03.33 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:06.38 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 16:08.34 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:13.12 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 16:13.43 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:13.55 | _abc_ | can someone please explain why in ascii removing pulseaudio tries to remove xfce4?! |
| 16:14.13 | _abc_ | And a dozen other things related to xfce4? I am running xfce4 now, it's the default wm |
| 16:14.36 | _abc_ | Is this for real? I can't seem to be able to remove pulseaudio "nicely" without xfce being pulled out too |
| 16:14.42 | _abc_ | fsmithred: ? |
| 16:15.09 | fsmithred | metapackages |
| 16:15.17 | _abc_ | I am now on xfce4 with alsa, everything almost works, but if I let the package manager do it's thing it will wreck my installation, no? |
| 16:15.31 | fsmithred | task-xfce-desktop pulls in a big bunch of stuff, directly and indirectly |
| 16:15.48 | _abc_ | I did not touch that, only pulseaudio |
| 16:16.00 | fsmithred | yeah, but there's a chain-reaction |
| 16:16.10 | _abc_ | So how does one prevent that? Pinning? |
| 16:16.16 | fsmithred | there's probably an easy command to fix it |
| 16:16.22 | fsmithred | but I'm not sure what that is |
| 16:16.24 | _abc_ | I CAN'T WAIT? |
| 16:16.36 | fsmithred | possibly aptitude keep all (or something like that) |
| 16:17.19 | fsmithred | another way to set things to manually installed (get them off the autoremoval list) is to 'apt-get install <package>' |
| 16:17.24 | fsmithred | which is fine if you only have a few |
| 16:18.37 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:18.39 | KatolaZ | _abc_: what are you trying to remove exactly? |
| 16:18.42 | KatolaZ | (which packages?) |
| 16:19.01 | fsmithred | apt-mark manual <package> |
| 16:19.07 | _abc_ | I distinctly remember manually installing vlc for one, and xfce4 removal removes it?! |
| 16:19.14 | _abc_ | And it screwed my alsa install just now |
| 16:19.32 | _abc_ | effing hell there must MUST be a way to control things. This is not windows. |
| 16:19.33 | *** join/#devuan Squartino (~Squarty@109.115.186.3) |
| 16:19.50 | KatolaZ | _abc_: would you mind answering my question instead of panicking? |
| 16:19.59 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: I am not panicking. |
| 16:20.11 | KatolaZ | and you are not answewring my question either |
| 16:20.45 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: removing pulseaudio tried to remove xfce4, marking it while it's running. Installing xfce4 the same way reinstalled pulseaudio even though alsa is installed and running |
| 16:21.01 | KatolaZ | _abc_: which packages are you trying to remove, please? |
| 16:21.01 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: do be patient, the system here is running a backup and very slow |
| 16:21.14 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: I just answered your questions above |
| 16:21.14 | fsmithred | apt-get --no-install-recommends install <package> |
| 16:21.30 | KatolaZ | so are you using |
| 16:21.38 | KatolaZ | apt-get remove --purge pulseaudio |
| 16:21.39 | KatolaZ | ? |
| 16:21.44 | _abc_ | fsmithred: that could work upon install, but what about when it's already in. apt-mark manual seems to be needed |
| 16:22.58 | KatolaZ | _abc_: ^^^ |
| 16:23.37 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:23.55 | fsmithred | what does this command show? (-s means simulate): apt-get -s remove xfce4 |
| 16:24.19 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: xfce4 has no dep on pulseaudio |
| 16:24.25 | fsmithred | recommends |
| 16:24.38 | KatolaZ | which is not a problem if you remoce just pulseaudio |
| 16:25.12 | KatolaZ | if you also try to remove libpulse, then all the packages that *can* support pulseaudio are removed as well |
| 16:26.50 | *** join/#devuan ipee (~ipe@91-156-247-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:26.54 | _abc_ | I was able to select the whole 2 screens of things it said it was going to remove and do an 'sudo apt-mark manual $(echo "all that")' |
| 16:27.35 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: basically removing the virus (pulseaudio) marked everything from xfce4 to vlc to libreoffice for removal since they were "automatically installed and no longer needed" |
| 16:27.37 | *** join/#devuan aggrora (~aggrora@2a04:ae08:1409:6f00:224:d7ff:febb:610c) |
| 16:28.03 | *** join/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:28.12 | _abc_ | Which is pretty much the entire running system if you like |
| 16:28.36 | KatolaZ | _abc_: what are you using? |
| 16:28.39 | KatolaZ | apt-get? |
| 16:28.41 | _abc_ | So SOMETHING has to change in the way (direction?) in which dependencies are defined. |
| 16:28.43 | KatolaZ | aptitude? |
| 16:28.52 | KatolaZ | synaptic? |
| 16:28.54 | KatolaZ | dpkg? |
| 16:28.55 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: the problem appeared when synaptic was used to remove pulseaudio |
| 16:28.59 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 16:29.03 | _abc_ | After that I went to cli |
| 16:29.08 | KatolaZ | _abc_: could you please try apt-get oinstead? |
| 16:29.30 | KatolaZ | 'cause synaptic makes unreasonable assumptions |
| 16:29.40 | KatolaZ | like that you *need* Recommends |
| 16:29.45 | _abc_ | I already told you I have been using the cli for a while, please sync |
| 16:29.53 | fsmithred | I'm gonna test in a live session |
| 16:30.15 | _abc_ | Suggest a way to see 'sudo apt autoremove' without actually removing anything? List tagged packages? |
| 16:30.21 | KatolaZ | _abc_: could you please post the output of "apt-get remove --purge pulseaudio"? |
| 16:30.33 | KatolaZ | _abc_: you are using apt, not apt-get... |
| 16:30.34 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: it's already gone now. |
| 16:30.35 | KatolaZ | please sync :P |
| 16:30.52 | _abc_ | Yeah, you're a bit late at the party we've been moving on here. |
| 16:30.57 | KatolaZ | apt, aptitude, apt-get, and synaptic have different defaults in managing deps |
| 16:31.00 | fsmithred | apt-get remove pulseaudio wants to take five packages with it |
| 16:31.02 | KatolaZ | ok, then have fun |
| 16:31.07 | _abc_ | fsmithred: thanks for the apt-mark suggestion that saved the day |
| 16:31.20 | _abc_ | fsmithred: now also remove pavucontrol? |
| 16:31.40 | fsmithred | that's not already in the list |
| 16:31.47 | _abc_ | I know, add it |
| 16:31.49 | fsmithred | adding --purge doesn't change the list |
| 16:31.51 | fsmithred | yeah, hang on |
| 16:31.56 | _abc_ | Use synaptic! |
| 16:32.22 | fsmithred | libcanberra and libgtkmm |
| 16:32.27 | fsmithred | no |
| 16:32.34 | fsmithred | apt-get |
| 16:34.36 | fsmithred | synaptic only removed those two packages |
| 16:35.04 | fsmithred | did you select "completely remove"? |
| 16:35.08 | *** join/#devuan lldd_ (~atrapado@unaffiliated/atrapado) |
| 16:35.18 | fsmithred | aptitude gave same results as apt-get |
| 16:35.31 | *** part/#devuan sleepingkirby (~sleepingk@123-194-79-23.dynamic.kbronet.com.tw) |
| 16:36.22 | fsmithred | I have to go out. I'll be back in around 6-8 hours |
| 16:36.30 | *** join/#devuan kabo_ (~manager@115-188-139-80-vdsl.bb.spark.co.nz) |
| 16:36.30 | _abc_ | I selected only remove not completely remove and I selected 2-3 other things all related to pulse |
| 16:36.39 | _abc_ | Okay, I don't know how long this backup will take |
| 16:36.49 | fsmithred | must have been one of those that triggered the problem |
| 16:36.51 | _abc_ | fsmithred: I'll probably sleep very little tonight anyway |
| 16:36.51 | *** join/#devuan ipeee (~ipe@91-156-247-55.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:36.52 | fsmithred | some library |
| 16:37.04 | _abc_ | fsmithred: yes I'll reconstruct what I did when the sloth dies later |
| 16:37.07 | KatolaZ | _abc_: I had told already not to remove libpulse |
| 16:37.20 | fsmithred | later... |
| 16:37.33 | KatolaZ | just remove pulseaudio and you'll be fine |
| 16:37.38 | KatolaZ | no daemon, no problem |
| 16:37.53 | *** join/#devuan Kebbe (~Kebbe@194.132.145.69) |
| 16:38.00 | KatolaZ | (I mean that package "pulseaudio") |
| 16:39.11 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: I tried to remove more because things really stopped working right in the audio systems needing oss /dev/dsp with pulse and it's acolytes |
| 16:49.40 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 16:49.47 | *** join/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@93.190.142.157) |
| 16:50.03 | *** join/#devuan most_enter (~most_ente@62-47-210-201.adsl.highway.telekom.at) |
| 16:55.07 | *** join/#devuan inhetep (~inhetep@gateway/tor-sasl/inhetep) |
| 16:55.22 | *** join/#devuan _doge_ (~doge@27.5.162.151) |
| 16:56.42 | _doge_ | Hi, I installed devuan ascii rc and then changed source.list to ceres. Now there is a issue with eudev package. |
| 16:56.46 | _doge_ | invoke-rc.d: unknown initscript, /etc/init.d/udev not found. |
| 16:56.54 | _doge_ | Someone please help. |
| 16:58.24 | _doge_ | https://pastebin.com/UuTbD0sB |
| 17:00.31 | KatolaZ | _doge_: eudev should not be upgraded |
| 17:00.38 | KatolaZ | ascii has a higher version than ceres... |
| 17:00.58 | _doge_ | I didn't upgrade it specifically. |
| 17:01.12 | _doge_ | I changed source to ceres and did a dist-upgrade. |
| 17:01.15 | KatolaZ | oh hold on |
| 17:01.27 | KatolaZ | yes, it seems that there is a new version] |
| 17:01.29 | _doge_ | Thanks. :) |
| 17:01.38 | KatolaZ | which does not have that fix |
| 17:01.48 | KatolaZ | _doge_: maybe just pin eudev for the moment |
| 17:01.56 | KatolaZ | so reinstall the ascii version |
| 17:01.58 | KatolaZ | and pin it |
| 17:02.03 | KatolaZ | and then dist-upgrade |
| 17:03.30 | _doge_ | ok ill try it. Thanks. |
| 17:15.42 | *** join/#devuan aggrora (~aggrora@2a04:ae08:1409:6f00:224:d7ff:febb:610c) |
| 17:20.26 | _doge_ | Ok, I apt pinned eudev & also has to pin libeudev1 to be installed from ascii and upgrade completed successfully. Thank you very much @KatolaZ. |
| 17:20.53 | _doge_ | Rebooting now, lol |
| 17:21.17 | KatolaZ | np _doge_ |
| 17:36.01 | *** join/#devuan Vall_ (~durval@201.188.211.207) |
| 17:38.56 | _abc_ | Is he back? |
| 17:39.30 | _abc_ | famous last words "I'll reboot now", "hold my beer, I'll show you a trick", "is this button safe to press at any time?" |
| 17:40.10 | _abc_ | Wow took one hour to copy about 6.5GB into usb stick. I really need better hw |
| 17:45.26 | _abc_ | USB2.0 flash media write speeds are not okay for what goes down now. Need USB3.0 and high speed writable media. |
| 17:46.01 | nemo | heh |
| 17:46.28 | nemo | _abc_: yeah. my coworker was trying to run apt-get upgrade on a unionfs bootable USB thumb drive recovery thing |
| 17:46.49 | _abc_ | That's exactly what I am doing. persistence / union mounted on usb stick |
| 17:46.51 | nemo | "installing updates - 4 hours remaining" |
| 17:47.08 | _abc_ | No, updates are much faster now, were slow in jessie, are fast in ascii |
| 17:47.13 | _abc_ | [acceptably fast] |
| 17:47.14 | nemo | _abc_: highspeed thumb drives are cheap now |
| 17:47.24 | nemo | _abc_: oh? how do they get around write speeds? |
| 17:47.25 | _abc_ | They don't work quickly on 2.0 |
| 17:47.27 | nemo | caching it all? |
| 17:47.30 | nemo | ok |
| 17:47.59 | _abc_ | I even tried a class 10 SDHC in the internal mmc drive of the laptop and it was not up to advertised speed |
| 17:48.11 | _abc_ | read speed is very nice, like 300MB/sec but write is another thing |
| 17:48.25 | muep | hopefully you are aware of how union fs at least traditionally does not handle running out of space very well |
| 17:48.35 | _abc_ | There are new SDHC uSD cards which are to be used with HD video recorders, they guarantee 90+BM/s write sequentially |
| 17:48.46 | _abc_ | muep: I have plenty of space |
| 17:48.47 | nemo | _abc_: yeah. my galaxy note 4 I use an SDXC card |
| 17:48.54 | nemo | wanna be sure that I have reliable video recording |
| 17:48.58 | nemo | 64 gigabyte SDXC |
| 17:49.47 | _abc_ | muep: i'm like 75% full on a persistence partition after backing up ~6.5GB $HOME. |
| 17:49.51 | _abc_ | Preparing to hdd install |
| 17:50.12 | nemo | _abc_: WRT the slow SDHC - if it wasn't up to actual advertised speeds - hopefully it wasn't a fraudulent card - those seem to be rampant online |
| 17:50.13 | _abc_ | Is there a way to pass the list of packages installed on the live media for testing (my case) to the gui installer in the live boot? |
| 17:50.29 | nemo | _abc_: is why I gave up and buy all those from like Staples now - at least they know their supply chains |
| 17:50.34 | muep | I used to make some writable liveusbs where I'd just mount an extra normal partition to /home |
| 17:50.37 | _abc_ | nemo: nono, reputable store, C10 SanDisk, works fine in the phone, I put it in the laptop to clock it. |
| 17:50.56 | _abc_ | muep: that is also an option but we'll skip that for now |
| 17:51.04 | _abc_ | need for speed, lots |
| 17:51.18 | _abc_ | I wonder how many days it takes to copy a 50TB disk |
| 17:51.28 | _abc_ | on substandard hardware |
| 17:51.46 | nemo | copy from what to what? |
| 17:51.54 | _abc_ | say another older disk or flash |
| 17:51.58 | _abc_ | brb cooking something yummy |
| 17:52.05 | nemo | wow. 50TB flash |
| 17:52.39 | muep | sounds expensive, even if it'd be the kind of terrible slow flash that cheap sd cards have |
| 17:55.01 | _abc_ | Of course I have nothing like that but it's nice to look ahead |
| 17:55.32 | nemo | I have a 4TB HD due to my lazy home upgrade method of buying a drive twice as large as my last one every few years |
| 17:55.32 | muep | usually you can just check how much throughput you get and then do a division |
| 17:55.52 | nemo | muep: compression would matter too |
| 17:56.11 | _abc_ | of course. For my current predicament a 6.5MB/s C10 SDXC would have shortened the write time from one hour to 15 minutes. Roughly. |
| 17:56.27 | _abc_ | That's the difference between one cup of coffee and four. |
| 17:56.48 | muep | 50 TB at 20 MB/s would be roughly a month |
| 17:56.54 | _abc_ | Also my cooking skills seem to be much appreciated by the neighbor's cat who is meowing desperately and trying to get through the door at my food. |
| 17:57.00 | _abc_ | muep: I know. |
| 17:57.16 | nemo | I used to launch disc clones overnight to get around the impatience thing |
| 17:57.21 | _abc_ | muep: makes "give us all your media to check" at border controls a really interesting predicament, right? |
| 17:57.44 | _abc_ | Yes, running batches overnight and then renicing and running during the day too is a regular thing |
| 17:58.15 | _abc_ | I think this could be a plan. To annoy border control of "all media" just take 3-4 10TB disks with you |
| 17:58.28 | nemo | _abc_: heh. that could be pretty funny |
| 17:58.28 | _abc_ | Fill with junk or loret ipsum gzipped or such |
| 17:58.33 | nemo | 'course they'd probably just seize it |
| 17:58.37 | nemo | send it back to me later |
| 17:58.39 | nemo | they do do that |
| 17:58.45 | muep | or maybe just some of the cheapes, worst sd cards you can find |
| 17:58.48 | *** part/#devuan Oldmoss (~Oldmoss@93.190.142.157) |
| 17:59.03 | nemo | hm |
| 17:59.16 | muep | I figure in many borders they can just tell you to leave the storage devices to them for examination |
| 17:59.17 | nemo | I have a disc at home that I know fails about 30% of the way through a full copy with a read error |
| 17:59.29 | nemo | I had to do dd seek/skip around those sectors to copy it last time |
| 17:59.32 | nemo | that could be a funny one to bring |
| 17:59.33 | _abc_ | I was once somewhere where they do this looking in devices thing and I had like 8 usb sticks on me plus the phone plus. When I left they forgot to return one, later I returned with another piece of paper and they gave me the missing stick |
| 17:59.42 | _abc_ | Capacity limits no doubt. Need more funding. |
| 18:00.30 | _abc_ | muep: pro tip: people who use such media actually need the media for work. Getting it back after 2 months is not ok |
| 18:01.08 | _abc_ | nemo: even funnier is a disk with virused disk controller software |
| 18:01.24 | _abc_ | See if you can lame the entire system they use. |
| 18:01.28 | muep | I would avoid bringing over border any storage device that I absolutely need for work |
| 18:01.41 | _abc_ | So what do you do, remote access? |
| 18:01.49 | _abc_ | Downloading 10TB takes a while. |
| 18:01.59 | furrywolf | while true ; do echo "bomb jihad airplane sarin " >>/foo ; done |
| 18:01.59 | enyc | Hrrm... Is there a erpbolem with installing 'vlc' on ascii ...? vlc-l10n not coming through in version 3.0.2-0+deb9u1 version into ascii repos? |
| 18:02.01 | nemo | _abc_: do you ever really need to do that? |
| 18:02.19 | nemo | muep: and yeah. that's my approach too |
| 18:02.22 | _abc_ | Even if no dweeb throttles in the middle of it since their dpi can't tell what it is and they assume it's warez or torrents |
| 18:02.26 | koollman | _abc_: how much of your time is worth 'not getting stopped at the border' ? :) |
| 18:02.42 | _abc_ | koollman: so much that I don't travel to certain countries at all. |
| 18:03.04 | muep | _abc_: I didn't say that I'd _never_ do it but usually it is quite easy to avoid that |
| 18:03.31 | _abc_ | I had a friend in a certain air force who said he travels a lot into lots of countries but always takes off and lands in the same one >;) |
| 18:03.39 | nemo | _abc_: I'm rather surprised that you're ever in a situation where you need 10 terabytes of data *locally* |
| 18:03.57 | muep | in many cases I can still e.g. transfer the data over internet before traveling, or even afterwards if it turned out that my laptop or suchlike was too suspicious |
| 18:03.57 | nemo | it seems clear to me the border harassers are there mostly to passively skim information off of everyone |
| 18:04.04 | nemo | not stop anything real |
| 18:04.10 | _abc_ | muep: it always hits you when you can least deal with it. In my case with the sticks they were on me because I needed them that day, so I had to go into an embassy for paperwork, oops. |
| 18:04.33 | _abc_ | Next time I'll stock the sticks with various flavors of pr0n and ask they guys when they give them back if they liked it. |
| 18:04.41 | furrywolf | can't afford to travel |
| 18:05.01 | furrywolf | travelling is really expensive. :( |
| 18:05.22 | nemo | furrywolf: you can't afford to cross the border into canada for the day? |
| 18:05.29 | nemo | it really isn't that expensive... |
| 18:05.30 | koollman | (also shipping a hard drive or two is not too hard) |
| 18:05.39 | _abc_ | nemo: information skimmers are much more professional than border goons who are bored and looking for the odd chick and or kid |
| 18:05.49 | enyc | furrywolf: depends where you are , how well organized you are, where yo uwant ot go |
| 18:05.53 | _abc_ | nemo: certain occupations strongly attract people with fetishes and various problems. |
| 18:05.56 | _abc_ | Fact. |
| 18:05.57 | nemo | _abc_: I'm just noting I don't get exactly what they think they are accomplishing in this age of internet |
| 18:06.07 | _abc_ | nemo: See above |
| 18:06.14 | nemo | _abc_: oh... I assumed they were trying to catch spies and drug dealers and terrorists |
| 18:06.20 | nemo | _abc_: didn't realise they were looking for blackmail material |
| 18:06.23 | _abc_ | nemo: no, that's the excuse ;) |
| 18:06.27 | furrywolf | nemo: it's not just the cost of travelling, it's the cost of lost income by not working for the same period of time. |
| 18:06.35 | furrywolf | also, the canadian border is a long way from california. |
| 18:06.39 | nemo | furrywolf: you work 7 days a week? |
| 18:06.46 | _abc_ | No blackmail usually. But cool pics from body scanners do get mailed around a bit between friends. For instructional purposes. |
| 18:06.47 | nemo | furrywolf: with no vacation time? O_o |
| 18:06.56 | furrywolf | 5 days/week with no vacation time |
| 18:07.01 | nemo | ew |
| 18:07.02 | furrywolf | most people don't get vacation time. |
| 18:07.06 | nemo | uh |
| 18:07.13 | furrywolf | only people with cushy middle-class jobs get vacation time. |
| 18:07.17 | nemo | most people who are not self-employed and are on #devuan do ⺠|
| 18:07.22 | nemo | you know. techies |
| 18:07.26 | _abc_ | Small businesses seldomly afford vacation time when it's "useful" |
| 18:07.47 | _abc_ | Also self employed have this problem as you said |
| 18:07.49 | nemo | 2 of my coworkers are self-employed but they seem to take even more vacations than I do |
| 18:07.59 | nemo | 'course they get to keep 2x the contract cash |
| 18:07.59 | _abc_ | nemo: that you know of. |
| 18:08.05 | furrywolf | hell, california recently had to make a law that employers are required to give a whole 3 sick days each year, because without the law most employers didn't give those either. |
| 18:08.06 | nemo | _abc_: haha |
| 18:08.06 | _abc_ | More lucratives gigs elsewhere? |
| 18:08.15 | nemo | _abc_: naw. just occurred to me they might be billing on vacation |
| 18:08.22 | *** join/#devuan KnoP (~andreas@p57B198AE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:08.25 | _abc_ | And that, while at it? |
| 18:09.09 | furrywolf | most working-class employees don't get anything. |
| 18:09.19 | nemo | yeah. leave is usually unpaid |
| 18:09.23 | nemo | was just surprised since you were on here |
| 18:09.27 | nemo | which implies some tech proficiency |
| 18:09.47 | _abc_ | diff -rb --no-dereference seems to return 1 if even one file in either dir was a socket or a fifo. Is this normal? It also prints a warning for each socket or fifo |
| 18:09.52 | nemo | obv "paid leave" is just a set-aside chunk removed from salary |
| 18:10.03 | nemo | which is exactly how I factor it in when job hunting |
| 18:10.11 | furrywolf | having some tech proficiency does not imply having a middle-class tech job. heh. |
| 18:15.39 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 18:19.13 | _abc_ | middle class job and middle class pay are again 2 different things |
| 18:19.15 | _abc_ | many places |
| 18:19.30 | _abc_ | the middle class being the new working poor in such locations |
| 18:24.40 | *** join/#devuan flrn (~flrn@unaffiliated/flrn) |
| 18:31.58 | *** join/#devuan blitzed (~blitzed@196.245.9.52) |
| 18:37.55 | *** join/#devuan eliasr (uid27497@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qztaufgqwfptflmr) |
| 19:07.16 | *** join/#devuan msiism (~msiism@200116b845cdf500ee086bfffe1ced28.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 19:07.22 | *** join/#devuan polocho (~polocho@89.141.230.94.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 19:18.15 | *** join/#devuan mubarak (~mubarak@197.252.11.84) |
| 19:18.41 | *** join/#devuan kelsoo1 (~kelsoo@dragora/developer/kelsoo) |
| 19:41.30 | *** join/#devuan sunshavi (~user@181.64.192.25) |
| 19:46.41 | *** join/#devuan rsevero (~rsevero@yamasaki-df.fabricadeideias.com.br) |
| 19:47.57 | rsevero | Is it right to say that Devuan ASCII packages are, generally, the same versions as Debian's stretch? |
| 19:48.23 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@ip-95-223-228-172.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 19:48.24 | msiism | rsevero: those which have not been forekd are exactly the same. |
| 19:48.54 | msiism | rsevero: they are those packages from stretch. |
| 19:50.03 | rsevero | msiism> Great. And the idea is to maintain this kind of relation in future releases, right? A Devuan release corresponding to a Debian one? |
| 19:50.40 | msiism | rsevero: i guess so. but more packages will probably have to be forked. |
| 19:53.14 | rsevero | Sure. Ok. I'm asking just to understand if it's reasonable to expect that packages created for Debian like MariaDB's packages at MaraiDB repository and OndÅej Surý's PHP packages will work in Devuan. AFAIU, they probably will work just fine. |
| 19:53.44 | msiism | rsevero: are these official debian packages? |
| 19:54.10 | *** join/#devuan hunger (~quassel@kde/developer/hunger) |
| 19:54.42 | rsevero | msiism: AFAIK, they aren't. They are packages created by MariaDB development team and by OndÅej Surý for Debian but they are not Debian official packages. |
| 19:55.19 | msiism | rsevero: well, as long as they don't depend on anyhting systemd, you should be fine. |
| 19:55.47 | rsevero | msiism: Ok. That's what I expect. Thanks. |
| 19:56.49 | *** join/#devuan Ryushin (chris@2001:470:4b:38f:777::868c) |
| 20:00.49 | *** join/#devuan technoidX (~technoid@blackice.nettek.io) |
| 20:08.31 | _abc_ | Is there a way to pass an installed package list into the gui installer on the live devuan ascii ? |
| 20:09.54 | msiism | fsmithred should know that. |
| 20:10.03 | _abc_ | Yes he would ;) |
| 20:10.03 | *** join/#devuan obeardly (~obeardly@overwatch.aisleahead.com) |
| 20:33.15 | *** join/#devuan _doge_ (~doge@27.5.162.151) |
| 20:33.35 | _doge_ | @KatolaZ, all fine now. Thank you very much. :) |
| 20:34.13 | KatolaZ | np _doge_ |
| 20:39.39 | *** join/#devuan pillepalle (~Thunderbi@ip-95-223-228-172.hsi16.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 20:44.47 | msiism | i'm trying to rebuild the mplayer package to create a stripped down version that won't support anything but alsa for audio output and doesn't have a gui. |
| 20:47.04 | msiism | i've been trying to get the configure flags in the rules file right, but there are some "override_dh_auto*" stanzas at the bottom that seem to reset some of these. |
| 20:48.32 | msiism | see: http://paste.debian.net/hidden/e2dbdee1/ |
| 20:55.02 | *** join/#devuan cyteen_ (~cyteen@146.66.58.22) |
| 20:59.12 | *** join/#devuan _abc_ (~usre@unaffiliated/ccbbaa) |
| 20:59.15 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 20:59.57 | _abc_ | Bug: there is no bell in ascii, under xfce4. All usual settings were tried. Bug is real, origin: Pulseaudio mods to non pulseaudio software. References: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=607393 |
| 21:00.09 | _abc_ | The m0r0ns declared the bug a feature 8 years ago apparently. |
| 21:00.24 | _abc_ | fsmithred: reading? |
| 21:01.04 | KatolaZ | _abc_: there is no bell without pulseaudio? |
| 21:01.07 | _abc_ | example of non xfce software to demonstrate depth of bug (is in wm): xterm -vb works as expected, visual flash. |
| 21:01.21 | KatolaZ | _abc_: I have bell |
| 21:01.25 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: there is no bell no matter what unless their idiotic event and load sound sample is loaded |
| 21:01.25 | KatolaZ | no pulseaudio over here |
| 21:01.36 | KatolaZ | _abc_: not true |
| 21:01.38 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: what are you using? Apparently it works with gnome |
| 21:01.46 | KatolaZ | _abc_: no DE at all |
| 21:01.54 | KatolaZ | bell works also on console |
| 21:01.57 | KatolaZ | (TTY) |
| 21:02.00 | KatolaZ | without X |
| 21:02.03 | KatolaZ | and under X |
| 21:02.05 | _abc_ | No bell on console, no bell on X |
| 21:02.18 | KatolaZ | _abc_: mixer? |
| 21:02.20 | _abc_ | Sound output works fine, alsa detects pc speaker channel, open, not muted etc |
| 21:02.43 | KatolaZ | _abc_: some cards have two controls for pc speaker |
| 21:02.56 | _abc_ | mine has one, the other one is used for modem/whatever |
| 21:03.06 | _abc_ | I tried qasmixer also alsamixer |
| 21:03.09 | KatolaZ | they have "Pc speaker" and "Beep" |
| 21:03.27 | _abc_ | This one has only Pc Speaker |
| 21:03.50 | KatolaZ | _abc_: so there is no bell in your ascii :) |
| 21:05.15 | _abc_ | but there is bell on the same hw in jessie... same wm too |
| 21:05.41 | KatolaZ | _abc_: must be something in alsactl then |
| 21:06.25 | KatolaZ | some other cards have a "digital" output, which is muxed with pc speaker |
| 21:06.38 | KatolaZ | try unmuting everything |
| 21:08.07 | _abc_ | I did all that. |
| 21:08.12 | _abc_ | Also nothing in dmesg. |
| 21:08.29 | _abc_ | Unloaded pcspkr loaded snd_pcspkr instead same outcome |
| 21:08.36 | _abc_ | What's in your lsmod KatolaZ |
| 21:09.37 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: are you on gnome or on xfce |
| 21:12.01 | _abc_ | I'm incredulous reading the thread on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=607393 |
| 21:12.21 | _abc_ | Jesus we trust these people with our data and waste time wading through their bugs declared features? |
| 21:12.32 | _abc_ | "I do kind of think it's odd that pulse ignores those by default, but on the other hand almost no one noticed or cared. ;( " |
| 21:12.37 | _abc_ | Jesus freaking XXX. |
| 21:12.46 | _abc_ | takes a break before he breaks anything expensive |
| 21:15.55 | KatolaZ | _abc_: neither |
| 21:15.58 | KatolaZ | I am on WindowMaker |
| 21:16.20 | KatolaZ | oh no |
| 21:16.23 | KatolaZ | actually on xmonad |
| 21:16.26 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:16.53 | KatolaZ | _abc_: that bug is a pulseaudio bug |
| 21:16.58 | _abc_ | Guilty as charged. I assume fsmithred will test it on the live machine? |
| 21:16.59 | KatolaZ | you are nor using pulseaudio, are you? |
| 21:17.22 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: nope, but I assume some bit rot appeared in the usual way and they patched their way around it with pulseaudio. |
| 21:17.38 | KatolaZ | _abc_: do not make assumption that you can't verify :) |
| 21:17.47 | KatolaZ | think about it: you are not the only one using devuan ascii |
| 21:17.54 | KatolaZ | and not the only one using it without pulseaudio |
| 21:18.05 | _abc_ | I am not. Anyone else with no bell in xterm AND no bell in console on ascii? |
| 21:18.07 | KatolaZ | I am telling you that in my case bell works fine |
| 21:18.22 | KatolaZ | in different machines |
| 21:18.23 | _abc_ | I would like input from someone running the live cd |
| 21:18.32 | _abc_ | with defaults as I do now |
| 21:18.33 | KatolaZ | _abc_: are you running the live cd? |
| 21:18.35 | _abc_ | yes |
| 21:18.42 | KatolaZ | desktop-live? |
| 21:18.45 | _abc_ | yes |
| 21:18.57 | KatolaZ | then fsmithred can help there |
| 21:19.04 | KatolaZ | maybe it's just a glitch in there |
| 21:19.37 | msiism | got no bell either (blacklisted pcspkr) but knows there's a famous metallica song about this problem |
| 21:20.45 | _abc_ | xkbbell -v 100 -force |
| 21:20.48 | _abc_ | ^ nada |
| 21:21.08 | *** join/#devuan minnesotags (~herbgarci@c-24-118-22-254.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 21:21.15 | _abc_ | msiism: and what happens if you un-blacklist pcspkr? Are you on pulse or on alsa? |
| 21:21.37 | msiism | _abc_: alsa. let me load pcspkr. |
| 21:23.14 | msiism | _abc_: when would i get the bell sound? |
| 21:24.11 | msiism | i suppose when hitting tab for command completion, right? |
| 21:25.09 | _abc_ | msiism: echo -e "\a" |
| 21:25.24 | _abc_ | also the same in console (text) |
| 21:26.04 | msiism | _abc_: no sound is heard. but this may be due to my setup. i'm using an external usb sound card. |
| 21:26.21 | _abc_ | Should work anyway |
| 21:26.34 | _abc_ | Unless you used snips on the internal speaker |
| 21:26.47 | msiism | i've also restarted alsa |
| 21:26.56 | _abc_ | if you open the audio mixer there should be a Beep channel |
| 21:27.05 | _abc_ | is it there and is it unmuted and volume all the way up? |
| 21:27.13 | _abc_ | In my case, it is so |
| 21:27.20 | msiism | _abc_: my soundcard has a hardware mixer. |
| 21:27.29 | _abc_ | The usb one?! |
| 21:27.32 | msiism | yes |
| 21:27.44 | msiism | but well, i have this script to swap sound devices for the dev meetings... |
| 21:27.55 | msiism | so, let's switch to the internal one |
| 21:27.58 | _abc_ | ime with usb out the sound driver mixes the beep into the output via usb too |
| 21:29.20 | msiism | well, there seems to be a problem. |
| 21:29.28 | msiism | i cannot open the mixer for the internal card. |
| 21:29.35 | _abc_ | hm |
| 21:29.46 | _abc_ | Even if you disconnect the external usb? |
| 21:30.06 | msiism | well, i din't disconnect it, i just unloaded the mdule |
| 21:30.13 | msiism | then restarted alsa |
| 21:30.29 | msiism | cat /proc/asound/cards only shows the internal one now |
| 21:31.21 | msiism | _abc_: well, i think i might still have been on jessie when i last did that. |
| 21:31.34 | _abc_ | aha. Thanks for trying. |
| 21:31.45 | msiism | yw |
| 21:31.52 | _abc_ | It's easy to duplicate since it's expected to work in the cd-live desktop |
| 21:38.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | console beep? depends |
| 21:43.46 | KatolaZ | _abc_: works for me in three different machines |
| 21:43.51 | KatolaZ | with different hw |
| 21:43.58 | KatolaZ | but all of them with actual installations |
| 21:44.00 | KatolaZ | (no live) |
| 21:44.04 | KatolaZ | it works also in the minimal live |
| 21:44.10 | KatolaZ | which uses beep for the accessible boot |
| 21:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | genuine console beep is via a hardware GPIO directly to a mini speaker or piezo |
| 21:44.42 | _abc_ | I know, but laptops do not have this DocScrutinizer05 |
| 21:44.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | some mobos have a feedback into audio codec/mixer |
| 21:45.01 | _abc_ | Also the AC97 hd sound chipset in this laptop has a special channel for beep |
| 21:45.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | _abc_: yep, laptops don't use this, they usually mix it into the audio path to amp and regular speaker |
| 21:45.43 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: maybe a restart will help. I will try this. Did not restart since I pruned pulseaudio |
| 21:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | some even have a volume control in mixer for it |
| 21:46.04 | KatolaZ | _abc_: if you restart you'll have pusleaudio... |
| 21:46.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | when they have a hw mixer |
| 21:46.08 | KatolaZ | it's a live right? |
| 21:46.14 | _abc_ | KatolaZ: I use persistence |
| 21:46.18 | KatolaZ | oki |
| 21:46.44 | _abc_ | This is the jumping board from which I install to the real disk partition later, I test everything then I install |
| 21:47.12 | _abc_ | xfce is linked against gtk libs no? |
| 21:47.51 | *** part/#devuan msiism (~msiism@200116b845cdf500ee086bfffe1ced28.dip.versatel-1u1.de) |
| 21:49.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the most failsafe way to get a real console beep is actually in console (ctr+alt+F1), the suggested echo -e "\a" |
| 21:50.01 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-43-37.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 21:50.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | all xterm alike stuff may not do real console beep |
| 21:50.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | may or may not |
| 21:58.27 | _abc_ | indeed. And that also does not work here. At all. |
| 21:58.31 | _abc_ | Okay time to sleep a bit |
| 22:03.06 | nacelle | I usually ctrl-g it up |
| 22:03.22 | nacelle | but I can see using echo -e "\a" in script or some such |
| 22:03.54 | *** join/#devuan DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 22:12.54 | *** join/#devuan markong (~marco@96.44.147.106) |
| 22:24.44 | Criggie | ping -a localhost |
| 22:27.37 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@189.154.65.73) |
| 22:41.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | dman, this came unexpected. Old suse system, kernel panic on nmap, switching back to textmode. Before I could (literally) make a snapshot of the panic dump, the system rebooted. Now no trace of any of that in /var/log |
| 22:42.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | comes in handy that the nmap was against a IoT LG washing machine in LAN |
| 22:42.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | which at that time also behaved quite erratically, not updating its status on LG's Smart TinQ shit |
| 22:45.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | smells pending doom |
| 22:46.50 | golinux | likes dumb devices |
| 22:51.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed, I already start regretting I got this shit |
| 22:51.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3 days old now |
| 22:56.04 | *** join/#devuan Tom-_ (~tomg@64-7-151-48.border7-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca) |
| 22:59.20 | *** join/#devuan earthnative (~nemo@59.167.208.146) |
| 22:59.50 | *** join/#devuan Infiltrator (~Infiltrat@unaffiliated/infiltrator) |
| 22:59.55 | *** join/#devuan INLinuxdude (~CoolHand@76.72.171.42) |
| 23:01.55 | *** join/#devuan xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 23:03.00 | *** join/#devuan yap (~yap@unaffiliated/yap) |
| 23:03.03 | yap | hi |
| 23:11.59 | golinux | DocScrutinizer05: I will repair my old devices at any cost if new dumb ones are not available. |
| 23:12.27 | golinux | hi yap |
| 23:14.05 | golinux | Pekingese or Shih Tzu? |
| 23:14.38 | nacelle | likes Bull Shih Tzus |
| 23:21.08 | *** join/#devuan Uberius (~Uberius@gateway/tor-sasl/uberius) |
| 23:24.28 | *** join/#devuan Irrwahn_pi__ (~Irrwahn@p549A7F7C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:28.59 | *** join/#devuan Tom-_ (~tomg@64-7-151-48.border7-dynamic.dsl.sentex.ca) |
| 23:48.23 | *** join/#devuan bpmedley (~bpm@c-24-72-144-115.ni.gigamonster.net) |
