| 00:00.12 | gnarface | i don't know chromium well enough to tell you how to get it to cough up diagnostic information about which devices it's chosen |
| 00:00.16 | bozonius | I tried all different sorts of tricks to get it working. I made the headset default card in /etc/asoundrc.conf and that allows aplay/arecord to work without -D params |
| 00:00.30 | gnarface | oh, but still doesn't work in chromium? |
| 00:00.58 | bozonius | me either. There is a built-in web dev UI, but it doesn't really give much info on the audio, iirc. I did a project using html5 audio a few years ago |
| 00:01.16 | bozonius | only on chromium 57 (jessie) not 66 (ascii) |
| 00:01.36 | bozonius | with no particular changes outside of the version change |
| 00:01.54 | bozonius | ie, no changes to envirnoment, system or alsa config, etc |
| 00:02.02 | bozonius | just downgrading chromium did the trick |
| 00:02.10 | gnarface | well, i was having trouble getting left4dead2 to recognize a USB device as a mic, and someone gave me help, maybe this can be changed to work for you too: http://paste.debian.net/1023202/ |
| 00:02.31 | bozonius | thanks; I'll take a look |
| 00:02.36 | gnarface | (it sets a bunch of extra variables that aren't supposed to be needed, and aren't used, but left4dead2 ignores the whole config unless they're defined) |
| 00:03.08 | gnarface | i've tested it generally with lots of other programs and it's pretty solid |
| 00:03.13 | gnarface | i've tested it with other devices too |
| 00:03.37 | gnarface | all you should have to change is the "KQ246AA" part |
| 00:03.54 | bozonius | and you get mic input in chromium v66 (ascii)? |
| 00:04.22 | gnarface | not gonna test that one for you, not gonna install chromium to find out, sorry |
| 00:04.38 | gnarface | but it works for everything i've tested it on, so there's a good chance |
| 00:04.43 | bozonius | so which browser(s), then, do you get mic input? |
| 00:04.59 | bozonius | because audacity works fine, as do some other tools I've tried |
| 00:05.21 | gnarface | none of them, i've used this with mumble and several in-game voice features as well as the steam client |
| 00:05.24 | bozonius | I briefly had ekiga working too |
| 00:05.44 | bozonius | then how do you know it will work for anything, including chromium? |
| 00:05.59 | bozonius | well, I guess I could try the file you gave |
| 00:06.04 | gnarface | i said there's a good chance of it, there's no guarantees here |
| 00:06.17 | bozonius | KQ246AA is the headset? |
| 00:06.39 | gnarface | it's actually a USB webcam, but this is only using the mic part |
| 00:06.44 | bozonius | ok |
| 00:06.53 | gnarface | your headset shouldn't be different in that regard |
| 00:07.10 | gnarface | see line 16? |
| 00:07.13 | gnarface | this one: pcm { type hw; card KQ246AA; device 0; subdevice 0 } |
| 00:07.23 | bozonius | yeah |
| 00:07.46 | bozonius | when I do aplay -l, I see card1: Headset [blah... |
| 00:08.02 | bozonius | so I would substitute "Headset" there? |
| 00:08.06 | gnarface | yes |
| 00:08.38 | gnarface | you have to figure out which device and subdevice are the mic |
| 00:08.48 | gnarface | on my webcam, there's only the mic |
| 00:09.00 | gnarface | but on your headset, the speakers probably also show up as a second device or subdevice |
| 00:09.24 | gnarface | no idea what order they'll be in, but aplay -l should tell you |
| 00:09.53 | gnarface | (sometimes it helps to compare `aplay -l` and `arecord -l` to distinguish the inputs from the outputs) |
| 00:13.36 | bozonius | ok, the browser picks up input, apparently, but dictaphone.audio (a web voice recorder to test mics and speakers) no longer works in v66, just as before |
| 00:14.23 | bozonius | it's odd, because v57 works fine, with no particularly fancy configuration (other than making the headset the default in asound.conf) |
| 00:15.54 | bozonius | and using apulse does not help, and makes it worse -- then chromium can't even find a card with a mic |
| 00:22.20 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:22.20 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 00:22.20 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 00:23.17 | bozonius | whoa! Good news. the mic works at duolingo.com now |
| 00:23.31 | gnarface | ok, so the ~/.asoundrc fix was worth something then? |
| 00:23.34 | bozonius | I'm going to try my original asound.conf just to make sure |
| 00:23.42 | bozonius | (yes, apparently) |
| 00:24.18 | gnarface | from what i've been told this is a sign of a bug in the program, but i'm not clearer on it than that. these values shouldn't need to be redefined like this unless they screwed up their alsalib API calls or something like that |
| 00:24.49 | bozonius | that's pretty much what I am figuring. Esp. since other apps work fine |
| 00:24.54 | gnarface | it probably comes from attempting to support windows and linux audio with the same codebase and no understanding of linux audio |
| 00:25.17 | bozonius | don't go there... please |
| 00:25.18 | gnarface | i realize now i've only seen this problem with commercial software |
| 00:25.23 | gnarface | that's all |
| 00:25.31 | gnarface | and it was all ports of windows programs |
| 00:25.40 | bozonius | I really appreciate that asound config, gnarface |
| 00:25.51 | gnarface | additionally, some of them garble the crap out of stereo mic input, just a warning |
| 00:26.00 | gnarface | (if you have a mono mic source then you're fine though) |
| 00:26.26 | bozonius | yeah, I worked for a software house that tried to port its windows stuff (what we call engineered software on the unix/linux side) to various unix platforms |
| 00:26.34 | bozonius | yeah, mono mic |
| 00:26.46 | gnarface | i don't really deserve thanks for that config. debianuser donated that to me in #alsa as a workaround for l4d2's problems |
| 00:26.57 | bozonius | still, you shared it |
| 00:27.17 | bozonius | anyway, the porting was contracted out to some dark entity, and the result was absolutely horrendous |
| 00:27.20 | gnarface | someone should really write a good ALSA book and get o'reilly to publish it |
| 00:27.29 | bozonius | almost nothing worked right in the unix versions |
| 00:27.39 | bozonius | I think there is one |
| 00:27.59 | bozonius | Practical Linux Sound or something, iirc |
| 00:28.06 | bozonius | it's very old though |
| 00:28.28 | bozonius | I think I almost bought it |
| 00:28.40 | bozonius | a book would be nice. |
| 00:29.05 | bozonius | or complete online docs with some examples. I've only seen smatterings of info about configuring alsa here and there |
| 00:29.23 | bozonius | alsa site has some docs, but I found they were also not clear |
| 00:29.43 | bozonius | (they did help me figure out how to make my headset the default device though) |
| 00:31.04 | bozonius | gnarface: WTH? |
| 00:31.32 | bozonius | now the mic works at duolingo.com even without your suggested changes to the asound.conf |
| 00:31.47 | bozonius | bangs his head -- HARD -- against the wall |
| 00:31.49 | gnarface | bozonius: remember that it'll still be using the old config until you restart the browser |
| 00:32.00 | bozonius | oh, I did restart the browser... |
| 00:32.14 | gnarface | does it have one of those fast-start daemons it leaves running though? |
| 00:32.20 | bozonius | linux has more ways of making me wrong... |
| 00:32.21 | gnarface | firefox had that by default for a while |
| 00:32.51 | bozonius | no |
| 00:32.54 | gnarface | i'd close it then check "ps aux --forest" to make sure everything related exited and it's not keeping some caching daemon alive that's also hanging onto the old config for you |
| 00:33.11 | gnarface | although i guess it's possible it might have cached your config itself |
| 00:33.16 | gnarface | that seems insane, but it's possible |
| 00:33.25 | gnarface | heh |
| 00:33.54 | bozonius | ps -ef |grep chrome nada |
| 00:33.58 | gnarface | not beyond the realm of possibilities that something you did caused some admin at duolingo.com to notice their bug and fix it "transparently" too |
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| 00:34.00 | bozonius | tried the tree |
| 00:34.46 | bozonius | I'm using xfce, but I wonder if the gnome lib support might be involved? |
| 00:35.09 | bozonius | I think I shall reboot and start fresh; see if I can get it to work |
| 00:36.27 | bozonius | duolingo? Heheheh. Not likely. They're still trying to fix a ton of other issues. It's a good site, and it really works, but it does have bugs here and there. Mainly latency type issues. |
| 00:37.14 | bozonius | when I do one of the exercises asking for mic input, sometimes it takes a few moments for it to catch what you are saying. But most of the time it is very prompt |
| 00:38.10 | gnarface | i prefer push-to-talk mode myself... some amount of latency in the auto-detect mechanism is inescapable and i'm from the CB-radio era anyway |
| 00:38.37 | gnarface | i don't know of any good fixes other than the old fashioned way in this case |
| 00:38.46 | bozonius | the so-called "vox" feature |
| 00:38.58 | bozonius | on some old hardware |
| 00:39.15 | gnarface | trying different compression settings may help |
| 00:39.23 | gnarface | more or less, i can't really guess |
| 00:39.29 | gnarface | depends on the hardware |
| 00:40.11 | bozonius | rebooted. Re-set my asound.conf back to the original way I had it, before your changes, where it simply marked the headset as default pcm and ctl, and now... |
| 00:40.17 | bozonius | duolingo.com works fine |
| 00:40.36 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 00:40.48 | gnarface | seems very weird |
| 00:40.58 | gnarface | and that's chromium v66? |
| 00:41.08 | bozonius | yupperee |
| 00:41.11 | gnarface | do you have any other websites to test with besides those two? |
| 00:41.12 | bozonius | v66 |
| 00:41.20 | bozonius | yes, onlinemictest.com |
| 00:41.36 | bozonius | I just did it as we chatted, and the headphone speakers pass, but mic fails |
| 00:41.54 | gnarface | curious |
| 00:41.58 | bozonius | it asks me for perm to use the mic for the mic input test, but there is no activity (line does not change) |
| 00:42.28 | gnarface | i suspect it's grabbing some line-in or unplugged onboard mic jack |
| 00:42.38 | bozonius | uh-oh |
| 00:42.44 | bozonius | weirder still, gnarface |
| 00:42.55 | bozonius | after the speaker test, I went BACK to the mic test |
| 00:42.59 | bozonius | and guesso whato |
| 00:43.11 | bozonius | now it is working |
| 00:43.32 | bozonius | so maybe not a problem with chromium... but who knows. |
| 00:43.38 | gnarface | between these asound.conf changes, you're closing all programs that access alsa right? |
| 00:43.45 | bozonius | maybe duolingo devs ran into issues and figured out how to work them out |
| 00:43.56 | bozonius | nothing else running |
| 00:44.00 | bozonius | (using mic) |
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| 00:44.15 | gnarface | something weird does seem to be going on |
| 00:44.25 | gnarface | i guess it's not completely conclusively not the driver's fault |
| 00:44.33 | gnarface | but it does seem to be isolated to chromium v66 |
| 00:44.44 | bozonius | sort of... but not entirely |
| 00:44.49 | bozonius | I mean, in the end, it is working |
| 00:45.18 | gnarface | you have some weird hysteresis going on though that i can't be sure isn't user error without watching over your shoulder every move you make |
| 00:45.30 | bozonius | it's just that initially at least, it resists the instructions to operate as expected |
| 00:45.33 | gnarface | still, it does seem like you've been careful... |
| 00:45.49 | gnarface | and yea... it does seem to be behaving quite strangely at time |
| 00:45.54 | gnarface | *at times |
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| 00:47.27 | bozonius | tries a few combinations of pages at onlinemictest.com ... |
| 00:48.39 | bozonius | ok, I think I might detecct a pattern, and this is to do with the way the site works |
| 00:49.13 | bozonius | if I start the browser (v66) fresh, and open onlinemictest.com, it tries to do the mic test but the line does not alter at all |
| 00:49.15 | bozonius | but |
| 00:49.39 | bozonius | if I switch to any other page there (speaker test, webcam test, etc), then come BACK to the mic test page then it works |
| 00:50.33 | bozonius | I wonder if maybe they are not opening the device successfully on the mic page. Maybe in v57, chromium opened the device for the client if it wasn't already open for the first opeeration |
| 00:50.44 | bozonius | I mean, this is all guessing and speculating |
| 00:52.00 | bozonius | gnarface: One thing I DO happen to know is that all this html5 audio and video is fairly recent. I was working with it 4 or 5 years ago and it was in even more tumult than it is now. It's actually pretty sstable fro what I can observe |
| 00:52.16 | bozonius | but back then, nightlies were breaking the html5 stuff regularly |
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| 00:53.12 | bozonius | one problem is that chromium, firefox and other browsers were implementing html5 audio and video differently (I think opera eventually decided to go with chrome's implementation, iirc) |
| 00:54.07 | bozonius | I think part of my experience (since ascii I mean), is that the code is ever morphing |
| 00:54.53 | bozonius | Why leave stable code alone when you could be tweaking it in hopes of breaking it and making users and app devs upset? |
| 00:55.12 | bozonius | This is why I much, much prefer fixed release distros |
| 00:55.21 | bozonius | not just of linux, but of anything. |
| 00:55.35 | bozonius | I prefer stability over the latest bells and whistles |
| 00:55.45 | bozonius | (I include sec fixes in stability) |
| 00:55.56 | gnarface | bozonius: well... i could imagine some of this stuff may have been shoved into market without sufficient security controls, and now retroactively adding them may be causing breakage. imagine if there was no way for a browser to disable the website's ability to access the mic at any time? |
| 00:56.41 | gnarface | just addressing that one concern alone could cause a huge ripple effect across default behavior expectations |
| 00:56.44 | bozonius | oh, I am not knocking them entirely. They have done yeomens' work on this whole audio video thing |
| 00:57.07 | bozonius | I just wish they'd practice better development habits |
| 00:57.32 | gnarface | me too |
| 00:57.50 | bozonius | then again... that kinda goes for a lot of projects, doesn't it? |
| 00:58.02 | gnarface | yea |
| 00:58.07 | gnarface | but especially web browsers |
| 00:58.11 | bozonius | and when it's all free of charge, who's to have a justified complaint? |
| 00:58.30 | gnarface | me |
| 00:58.42 | gnarface | or any web developer, really |
| 00:58.53 | gnarface | we bear the burden of the industries mistakes |
| 00:59.02 | gnarface | we hide their bodies |
| 00:59.08 | gnarface | we launder their dirty fucking money |
| 00:59.15 | bozonius | it is my opinion that web browsers are called upon to support an extraordinary amount of features, and the attendant security |
| 00:59.27 | bozonius | true, what you say |
| 01:00.10 | gnarface | it wouldn't be half so bad if the perceived quality of say something like IE6, weren't so vastly divergent from the reality of the situation from a developer's perspective |
| 01:00.15 | bozonius | that's how I was feeling while trying to develop an audio app for web. Sometimes, I had to wait several days for a fix to come though, or fall back to older versions which broke even more stuff |
| 01:01.27 | gnarface | they call it the "cutting edge" of technology for a reason. but with web browsers, that edge is serrated |
| 01:01.47 | bozonius | and I feel a lot of this stems from this new-fangled AGILE practice. Don't plan. Just start writing it, building it, and later when it is done, we'll write the design docs |
| 01:02.02 | bozonius | edge is sharp as sharks' teeth |
| 01:03.02 | gnarface | yea agile is a real problem that only gets worse when you half-ass it |
| 01:03.19 | bozonius | and then, maybe, we'll start to implement the thing (whateveritis) properly, with care. But who will care then? Because I'll already have my money and my repuation and I'll leave it for some poor schmuck like bozonius to fix it. |
| 01:03.58 | bozonius | gnarface: the fact that it calls upon team members to tolerate direct interpersonal confrontation is the root of it |
| 01:04.01 | gnarface | agile defines a strict set of failure cases and mitigation strategies that usually management decides to exclude themselves from. this makes it function much worse than it's already ill-conceived nature |
| 01:04.09 | bozonius | stand-ups, scrums, etc |
| 01:04.41 | bozonius | and that can only be had by thorough examination and consideration of the end product |
| 01:04.50 | bozonius | which seems to be elusive to the minds of the coders |
| 01:04.59 | gnarface | i forget what it's actually called, but there's this one case where you're supposed to actually just scrap the sprint and do it over. that never happens when it should |
| 01:05.25 | bozonius | I sense they have no idea what it will look like, or do, or the features it will have when they start out |
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| 01:05.37 | bozonius | it seems to be driven mainly by personalities |
| 01:05.39 | gnarface | management still tries to use agile to hold the entire project deadline in place, which is actually the opposite of what agile is designed to do |
| 01:06.23 | bozonius | what is wrong with good, old-fashioned engineering design, planning, testing, implementation, deployment... ? |
| 01:06.32 | gnarface | and as often as not, the developers don't have a clear picture of what the final product should look like because it's a moving target management themselves can't settle on a definition for |
| 01:06.55 | bozonius | sure it had bugs and problems too, but at least there was a goal and the entire team knew what it was when they started |
| 01:07.08 | gnarface | the good old fashioned pattern doesn't give upper management any outs to scapegoat their underlings for deadline slippage caused by incomplete planning on their behavlf |
| 01:07.17 | bozonius | yes |
| 01:08.36 | bozonius | why should mgmt care? They have their connnections and golden parachutes, so when it all starts going sour, they bail and leave bozonius and the other suckers to clean up their mess while fighting daily customer support fires |
| 01:09.49 | bozonius | but they can always rename the project or product |
| 01:09.56 | bozonius | that seems to help |
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| 01:10.03 | bozonius | ... not |
| 01:11.10 | bozonius | and it's a moving target, as you accurately say, not just because of manglement, but even more due to marketing |
| 01:12.02 | bozonius | and those folks are totally clueless. Sales people learn how to say technical things to potential and existing customers, like parakeets, only the latter sound much more convincing |
| 01:12.39 | bozonius | blathers on... gnarface has fallen asleep, having laughed himself into a trance |
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| 02:09.42 | aslan8649 | I have 5 packages being held back from being upgraded. When I attempt to upgrade them I end up in a broken package nightmare. the packages are: elogined libelogind0 libpam-elogind libpolkit-agent-1-0 policykit-1 |
| 02:09.57 | aslan8649 | what must I do to resolve this situation? |
| 02:12.27 | gnarface | do you get an error about udev? |
| 02:12.37 | gnarface | udev being already provided or something? |
| 02:13.09 | gnarface | aslan8649: ^ |
| 02:14.40 | fsmithred | aslan8649, is this a new installation? |
| 02:15.48 | gnarface | oh i thought he meant he was upgrading from jessie |
| 02:17.50 | aslan8649 | gnarface, no this is an old devuan install |
| 02:18.04 | aslan8649 | there is no "udev" errors |
| 02:18.48 | aslan8649 | about two weeks ago after I type 'u' in aptitude this started. |
| 02:24.15 | *** join/#devuan dek (~dekester@unaffiliated/dekester) |
| 02:24.50 | aslan8649 | argh!!! the one laptop just ran out of disk space on /var. it appears named has blown its brains out . |
| 02:25.19 | aslan8649 | filled the syslog and the daemon_log with error nonsense |
| 02:25.44 | aslan8649 | be back later |
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| 02:27.19 | fsmithred | there may be a conflict between xfce and kde. Xfce uses consolekit and kde uses elogind |
| 02:27.53 | fsmithred | assuming this is the system that your package list came from |
| 02:30.22 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, yes it is. |
| 02:30.44 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, I am considering removing kde. |
| 02:30.58 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, I am considering removing kde anyway. I never use it. |
| 02:31.07 | fsmithred | that might help |
| 02:31.13 | fsmithred | but there should be a way through this |
| 02:31.20 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, the same is true of gnome. |
| 02:31.35 | fsmithred | I just installed kde with xfce earlier today, and I didn't have any trouble |
| 02:31.39 | fsmithred | ascii |
| 02:31.49 | fsmithred | what about gnome? |
| 02:32.21 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, I never use it so I was thining about removing it. |
| 02:32.30 | fsmithred | are you upgrading from debian jessie to devuan ascii? |
| 02:32.47 | aslan8649 | this is devuan ascii for several months |
| 02:33.04 | fsmithred | where'd you get gnome? |
| 02:33.06 | fsmithred | or how? |
| 02:33.39 | fsmithred | getting rid of gnome and kde before upgrade is a good idea - it will save you a lot of time |
| 02:33.56 | fsmithred | oh, nm. already ascii. |
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| 02:34.34 | fsmithred | what's u in aptitude do? |
| 02:35.19 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, the same as 'apt-get update' |
| 02:35.30 | fsmithred | oh |
| 02:35.37 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, update's the package lists |
| 02:35.41 | fsmithred | and now are you trying upgrade or dist-upgrade? |
| 02:36.45 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, none of the above. I am just trying to perform aperiodic updates to the all ready running computer. |
| 02:37.35 | fsmithred | "update" updates the package cache, "upgrade" and "dist-upgrade" replace packages with newer versions |
| 02:37.53 | fsmithred | dist-upgrade will install any new packages |
| 02:38.40 | fsmithred | which libpolkit-backend and libpolkit-gobject- packages are installed? |
| 02:40.22 | aslan8649 | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:40.39 | aslan8649 | libpolkit-gobject-1-0-elogind:amd64 0.105-18+devuan2.4 |
| 02:41.03 | fsmithred | I only know aptitude on command-line |
| 02:41.20 | fsmithred | I guess you'd need to do a full-upgrade instead of a safe-upgrade |
| 02:41.33 | fsmithred | because the packages you need don't have the same name |
| 02:41.49 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, i am just apply updates to the system. |
| 02:41.55 | fsmithred | the -1-0 comes afer the "elogind" |
| 02:42.04 | fsmithred | what do you mean apply the updates? |
| 02:42.11 | fsmithred | there are different ways to do that |
| 02:42.16 | fsmithred | which way are you doing it? |
| 02:42.28 | aslan8649 | ii elogind 234.4-1+devuan1.5 |
| 02:43.30 | fsmithred | try 'apt-get -s dist-upgrade' |
| 02:43.39 | fsmithred | or 'aptitude -s full-upgrade' |
| 02:43.42 | fsmithred | and see what it says |
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| 02:44.24 | aslan8649 | start aptitude as root; type a lowercase 'u', to cause aptitude to refresh/update the package lists. type uppercase "U" and a lowercase 'g' to have aptitude show what package may be updated. |
| 02:44.55 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, this box is all ready at devuan ascii. |
| 02:45.03 | fsmithred | there aren't two kinds of upper-case U? |
| 02:45.13 | fsmithred | yes, I understand that |
| 02:45.19 | fsmithred | do you want the updated packages or not? |
| 02:45.27 | fsmithred | try one of the commands I gave you |
| 02:45.33 | fsmithred | the -s means "simulate" |
| 02:45.38 | fsmithred | it won't change anything |
| 02:46.07 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, no, absolutely not. what you are saying is blantantly wrong. |
| 02:46.32 | fsmithred | ????? |
| 02:46.37 | fsmithred | which part? |
| 02:46.41 | fsmithred | (I know it's right) |
| 02:47.51 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, I do not need to do a "full-upgrade" or a "dist-upgrade" to have aptitude or apt-get update packages. |
| 02:48.19 | fsmithred | you do if you need a new package (a package that has a name different from any installed packages) |
| 02:48.55 | aslan8649 | no! I search with aptitude and select install. |
| 02:49.27 | golinux | aslan8649: I advise you to listen to fsmithred |
| 02:50.00 | aslan8649 | golinux, why? |
| 02:50.04 | golinux | 's advice |
| 02:50.23 | fsmithred | how about, because I gave you two commands that might give you useful information? |
| 02:50.28 | fsmithred | why are you opposed to that? |
| 02:50.29 | golinux | He has helped many, many people straighten out a similar problem. |
| 02:51.20 | golinux | He is one of the best sources for Devuan troubleshooting. But hey, if you know more, so be it. |
| 02:51.27 | aslan8649 | what part of I have a computer all ready running devuan ascii and just what to solve a simple update issue do you not undertand? |
| 02:51.33 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:52.05 | fsmithred | so what's the solution? |
| 02:52.15 | golinux | I understand that the packages involved are in flux and have been renamed therefore requiring a special procedure |
| 02:53.05 | golinux | fsmithred: Maybe go have a cup of tea and forget the ungratefulness |
| 02:53.37 | aslan8649 | I am not trying to upgrade anything. |
| 02:53.49 | golinux | You have to to get the new package |
| 02:54.12 | aslan8649 | aptitude is trying to update 5 all ready installed packages and for some unknown cannot do it. |
| 02:54.36 | golinux | I give up and am going to the kitchen . . . |
| 02:55.34 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, you are wrong. I do not have to do a Full-upgrade or dist-upgrade to install a new package. |
| 02:55.54 | aslan8649 | saying that I do is plain insane. |
| 02:56.13 | golinux | Enjoy your broken ascii then |
| 02:56.33 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, "so what's the solution?" go back to Debian Stretch. |
| 02:56.36 | fsmithred | then apt-get install the right package |
| 02:56.53 | fsmithred | aslan, run these commands as ordinary user and compare the outputs |
| 02:57.00 | fsmithred | aptitude -s safe-upgrade |
| 02:57.05 | fsmithred | aptitude -s full-upgrade |
| 02:57.12 | aslan8649 | there are only 5 packages that need to be updated. |
| 02:57.22 | fsmithred | I can't guarantee that it will give you the solution, but it might. |
| 02:57.46 | fsmithred | do those packages have the same names or different names than the ones they are updating? |
| 02:58.29 | fsmithred | not a trick question |
| 02:59.34 | aslan8649 | aptitude -s full-upgrade gives the same list of 5 packges which for some unknown reason cannot be update and will be held at their current version. |
| 03:00.45 | fsmithred | maybe you need to do 'apt-get install <package>=<version>' |
| 03:00.47 | aslan8649 | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:00.47 | aslan8649 | Resolving dependencies... |
| 03:00.47 | aslan8649 | No packages will be installed, upgraded, or removed. |
| 03:00.47 | aslan8649 | 0 packages upgraded, 0 newly installed, 0 to remove and 5 not upgraded. |
| 03:00.47 | aslan8649 | Need to get 0 B of archives. After unpacking 0 B will be used. |
| 03:00.48 | aslan8649 | Would download/install/remove packages. |
| 03:01.09 | aslan8649 | those are the same 5 packages |
| 03:01.50 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, there is nothing to install. the 5 packages are installed. the 5 packages need to be updated. |
| 03:08.47 | fsmithred | apt-get install libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0=105-18+devuan2.9 libpolkit-gobject-elogind-1-0=105-18+devuan2.9 (and so on) |
| 03:14.17 | golinux | aslan8649: Those installed packages are obsolete. You need different ones. |
| 03:14.54 | golinux | (At least I think that's what's going on) |
| 03:15.01 | golinux | butts out again. |
| 03:15.11 | aslan8649 | golinux, this is true which is why aptitude decided to update them. |
| 03:15.29 | golinux | The new ones have different names |
| 03:15.32 | fsmithred | I don't know why it's a problem. They're just newer versions of the same packages. |
| 03:15.47 | fsmithred | no, these are the same. one is devuan2.4 and the newer one is devuan2.9 |
| 03:15.53 | golinux | They don't have different names? |
| 03:16.18 | fsmithred | nope. earlier ones did. |
| 03:16.37 | aslan8649 | this is insane |
| 03:16.59 | fsmithred | if this was the stable release, it would be insane |
| 03:17.25 | aslan8649 | the one laptop in aptitude update now has the same problem. identical program. the exact same packages. |
| 03:17.41 | fsmithred | did you try installing them by version? |
| 03:18.07 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, I am just running aptitude without any command line arguments. |
| 03:18.26 | fsmithred | yeah, I wish you'd stop doing that for a little while |
| 03:18.58 | aslan8649 | obviously something is seriously wrong with Devuan update system. these packages are not being tested properly. |
| 03:19.13 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, why |
| 03:19.52 | fsmithred | well anyway, in my experience with the recent upgrades relating to the totally fucked up desktop authentication system (blame debian), sometimes specifying the version of the package you want gets you through the blockage. |
| 03:19.57 | fsmithred | take it or leave it. |
| 03:20.18 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, blame the other guy. |
| 03:20.43 | fsmithred | so test them properly - you are testing them, because ascii is still the testing release |
| 03:20.57 | aslan8649 | the laptop has an additional feature. eudev, udev, etc. |
| 03:21.08 | fsmithred | eudev is standard in ascii |
| 03:21.11 | aslan8649 | udisk2 |
| 03:21.46 | aslan8649 | the above packages are partially installed. |
| 03:22.03 | fsmithred | so going back to my statement where I bashed debian, I take it back. Remove that part and read the rest. |
| 03:22.48 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, you lost all credibility when you start blaming debian for DEVUAN's issues. |
| 03:23.24 | fsmithred | we did not make the rat's nest |
| 03:23.29 | aslan8649 | still has the debian stretch hard drives for all the computers |
| 03:23.33 | fsmithred | and anyway, we're going off-topic |
| 03:23.55 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, then do not use the rat-nest. FIX IT!!! |
| 03:24.29 | aslan8649 | i have to fix the eudev, udev, and udisk2 debacle. |
| 03:24.49 | fsmithred | you might have to break down and use the command line |
| 03:25.05 | aslan8649 | fsmithred, in your dreams |
| 03:25.18 | aslan8649 | that is what apt-get is for |
| 03:25.22 | fsmithred | which will be very soon |
| 03:26.01 | fsmithred | good night, and good luck |
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| 04:15.52 | aslan8649 | could someone explain why Devuan ASCII using apt-get to update a program, wants to remove 26 packages with no explanation as to why? http://wien.blauedonau.com/~terrylr/devuan-package-removals.png |
| 04:16.33 | aslan8649 | If something is to be removed at least tell me why. |
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| 04:22.22 | Criggie | Just for the lols... I'm working on a centos machine at work, which won't boot |
| 04:22.25 | Criggie | [241.532143] INFO: task systemd:1 blocked for more than 120 seconds. |
| 04:22.36 | Criggie | yeah - that's kinda not supposed to do that. |
| 04:28.07 | AlexLikeRock | "disable""remove" |
| 04:28.14 | AlexLikeRock | hahah |
| 04:38.01 | rrq | aslan8649: usually it's because that to install has direct or indirect conflicts with that to remove |
| 04:44.33 | aslan8649 | rrq, i placed all the packages to be removed on Hold using aptitude. I then reran the command. apt-get provided the reasoning for deleting the packages. many depend on udisk2 which is being removed. |
| 04:45.12 | aslan8649 | as to why udisk2 is being removed is unknown. |
| 04:46.07 | aslan8649 | I am beginning to rethink moving to Devuan. |
| 04:53.10 | aslan8649 | Allow apt-get to remove the 26 packages then it wants to remove 37 because they are no longer used. |
| 04:54.04 | aslan8649 | many of those packages I needed. |
| 04:56.04 | golinux | Have you rebooted? A week or so ago, perl wouldn't update. I had a terrible time. It required a reboot to clear whatever was hanging things up. |
| 04:59.28 | aslan8649 | golinux, i have not rebooted. just using apt-get to fix the laptop. going to switch back to debian stretch on it. i needed some of those 26 packages that were removed |
| 05:00.13 | golinux | Before you do scorched earth give it a try. |
| 05:01.07 | aslan8649 | golinux, k3b which i used near every day was removed. however k3b-data was left behind. that is just sloppy. |
| 05:01.48 | golinux | How is that our fault if it is a debian package? |
| 05:02.20 | aslan8649 | devuan claims to be "better" |
| 05:02.28 | golinux | And apt and aptitude are Debian packages? |
| 05:03.09 | golinux | Most of Devuan comes from Debian |
| 05:04.08 | golinux | There a plenty of screwups coming directly from Debian. Those are not the screwups we are most concerned about |
| 05:04.49 | aslan8649 | remove udisks2 only to reinstall it. minus all the packages which depended on it. |
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| 05:06.09 | aslan8649 | reinstall caja minus the packages which depended on it. |
| 05:06.25 | aslan8649 | this is a nightmare. |
| 05:06.45 | aslan8649 | give me CP/M |
| 05:07.56 | aslan8649 | golinux, blame the other guy. |
| 05:08.40 | aslan8649 | honest, I am just an innocent developer the other developers made it rubbish. |
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| 05:11.47 | golinux | That's just trollish BS. Thousands of users are happily running Devuan. Some have had problems which were solved. Others had smooth sailing. Sometimes PENKAC wins the day. |
| 05:12.10 | golinux | PEBKAC |
| 05:12.35 | rrq | aslan8649: have you found a stable package state yet? i.e. one where 'apt-get -f install' comes back without noise". |
| 05:13.07 | golinux | thinks he should try a reboot. |
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| 05:51.41 | bozonius | bozonius never experiences PEBKAC |
| 05:52.27 | bozonius | realizes his nose is growing very long... |
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| 07:21.44 | aitor | hi |
| 07:23.07 | aitor | a security hole has been found on twitter and it's recommended to change the password: |
| 07:23.21 | aitor | https://www.theguardian.com/media/pda/2009/aug/26/twitter-internet |
| 07:25.06 | aitor | this is not the right link, sorry |
| 07:25.11 | bozonius | 2009! |
| 07:26.13 | aitor | lol, but it's just been announced in a radio transmitter |
| 07:27.56 | bozonius | so where is this link? |
| 07:28.10 | aitor | https://www.telecompaper.com/news/twitter-tells-users-to-change-password-after-discovering-security-hole--1242903 |
| 07:28.53 | bozonius | https://www.telecompaper.com/news/twitter-tells-users-to-change-password-after-discovering-security-hole--1242903 |
| 07:29.29 | bozonius | your message displayed here just as I hit enter |
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| 09:51.54 | aitor | the official announcement is here: |
| 09:51.55 | aitor | https://blog.twitter.com/official/en_us/topics/company/2018/keeping-your-account-secure.html |
| 09:55.01 | specing | > keeping-your-account-secure |
| 09:55.14 | specing | sounds like it is your fault they can't program right |
| 09:55.57 | MinceR | sounds like an item for the "modern" manifesto |
| 09:56.39 | MinceR | well, it's a special case of the "we don't make mistakes, ever, not even when we do" |
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| 13:29.56 | aslan8649 | golinux, PEBKAC????? |
| 13:30.09 | aslan8649 | rrq, what are you referring to? |
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| 13:30.58 | aslan8649 | golinux, I did reboot, the laptop computer which was running devuan ascii is now back running debian stretch |
| 13:32.50 | aslan8649 | golinux, if you wish to make remarks about my abilities do me the honor of at least saying it openly and without jargon or slang. |
| 13:33.49 | aslan8649 | golinux, telling me it is operator error is your opinion which is amoral, neither correct nor incorrect. |
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| 13:35.35 | aslan8649 | golinux, the problem is Devuan makes a claim of being "better" than Debian yet blames Debian for all the alledge errors and problems. Devuan, needs to growup and own its own errors, problems and shortcomings. |
| 13:35.57 | fsmithred | where does devuan claim to be better? |
| 13:36.21 | aslan8649 | software freedom, your way |
| 13:36.26 | fsmithred | I thought devuan's main goal was to offer debian without systemd |
| 13:37.23 | fsmithred | for me, devuan is better. But I installed debian for a friend, because it was better for her. |
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| 16:03.28 | aslan8649 | fyi, pulseaudio has taken to filling /var/log/user.log with millions of lines of the same error. 2327692 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2383550104 May 4 10:58 user.logs$ grep -e 'pulseaudio' /home-spare/var/log/user.log | wc -l |
| 16:03.28 | aslan8649 | 24570430 |
| 16:03.29 | aslan8649 | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:04.05 | muep | what error is it? |
| 16:04.22 | aslan8649 | May 4 10:58:01 strauss pulseaudio[10423]: [null-sink] rtp.c: sendmsg() failed: Invalid argument |
| 16:04.47 | aslan8649 | 24+ million lines of the same error |
| 16:05.49 | aslan8649 | 2.3 Gigabutes of rubbish |
| 16:06.00 | muep | sure if the error is something that happens on every sample or every few samples, it can produce quite a lot of output |
| 16:06.35 | aslan8649 | sounds like a good reason to remove pulseaudio |
| 16:07.11 | aslan8649 | be back later, have to keep the doctors and lawyers employed. |
| 16:28.49 | golinux | aslan8649: Generalizations should not be taken as personal. And yes, Devuan is better for many but that is purely an individual conclusion. |
| 16:29.50 | golinux | If you like Devuan, use it. If not, there are plenty of alternatives. The choice is yours. |
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| 18:01.47 | *** join/#devuan Ryvius (~victor@2a06:4002:3005:0:922b:34ff:fe0e:2322) |
| 18:02.16 | Ryvius | Hello, I'm afraid this is a stupid question, but... nvidia propertary driver isn't supported/possible, is it? |
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| 18:07.23 | debdog | has nvidia running on his laptop with Ascii |
| 18:08.03 | debdog | no clue 'bout packages but the installer works |
| 18:10.24 | debdog | and there are ots of nvidia related packages on Jessie (and prolly on Ascii, too) |
| 18:10.55 | debdog | *lots |
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| 18:13.35 | msiism | Ryvius: maybe that helps: https://wiki.debian.org/NvidiaGraphicsDrivers |
| 18:13.50 | Ryvius | I'm on jessie and apt search only finds bumblebee and some TV card stuff. No driver as I can see |
| 18:14.29 | Ryvius | Should I follow the debian guide to enable jessie-backports and install the driver from there? |
| 18:14.44 | debdog | aptitude search nvidia returns an enormous list here |
| 18:15.32 | msiism | Ryvius: the instructions for debian jessie should work on devuan. |
| 18:16.09 | Ryvius | debdog: Could it be because you're on ascii? It only finds nvidia-texture-tools and nvidia-va-driver for me |
| 18:16.22 | golinux | Ryvius: Do you have and optimus card ? It requires bumblebee iirc. |
| 18:16.35 | Ryvius | golinux: Nope |
| 18:16.47 | debdog | Ryvius: I am on jessie right now, though no nvidia hardware |
| 18:16.47 | golinux | I just use onboard graphics so not titally sure but I think that's the case. |
| 18:17.32 | Ryvius | debdog: Can I see what packages you have available? |
| 18:18.11 | golinux | Ryvius: Do you have non-free enabled? Might be there. |
| 18:18.32 | Ryvius | Oh I guess not... |
| 18:19.01 | debdog | Ryvius: https://dpaste.de/qdUw/raw |
| 18:19.11 | debdog | oh, non-free. prolly |
| 18:19.14 | msiism | yes, the proprietary drivers are in non-free |
| 18:19.38 | golinux | Sorry lunch is ready. I'l bbl |
| 18:21.03 | *** join/#devuan thaller (~thaller@2001:a61:473:1100:5fc9:d9e5:fff4:f0cd) |
| 18:21.44 | Ryvius | Just to make sure I'm doing it right... I just gotta edit my /etc/apt/sources.list so it reads "deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie main contrib non-free" right? It only has that line |
| 18:22.39 | debdog | looks about right |
| 18:23.10 | msiism | you could make that deb.devuan.org, to keep it short, btw. |
| 18:25.11 | Ryvius | Thanks, now I can find the nvidia packages.... hopefully I can get Xcom 2 playing with that, it has an FPS of 0.3 on nouveau |
| 18:25.41 | msiism | Ryvius: the wiki page says the latest drivers are in backports. |
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| 18:26.39 | msiism | Ryvius: read thorugh that page a bit, it really seems like a pretty good peice of documentation. you may just wanna try to go by it and come back here for questions when you get stuck. |
| 18:27.30 | Ryvius | Yeah looks like I'll need the backport driver, 340 is too old for Xcom... thanks for the help |
| 18:27.48 | msiism | Ryvius: np |
| 18:31.06 | msiism | Ryvius: btw, trying to get the new drivers to work might temporarily break your graphics setup and force you to use the cli to do things (just saying...). |
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| 18:34.21 | Ryvius | That's fine, I can always reinstall |
| 18:34.30 | Ryvius | This machine is only for gaming |
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| 18:35.22 | msiism | Ryvius: you mean reinstall the driver or the system? because getting grphics back is normally just a matter of fiddling with your xorg.conf (iirc). |
| 18:35.52 | Ryvius | System... also another question, since I installed back in december, I have not received one single update for any package... can that be right? |
| 18:36.07 | msiism | Ryvius: no. |
| 18:37.14 | Ryvius | Weird... shouldn't a normal apt update && apt upgrade do it? |
| 18:37.22 | msiism | i was wondering about your sources.list file before. i have never seen someone use "packages.devuan.org" in their sources. |
| 18:37.43 | msiism | what happens if you run apt-get update? |
| 18:38.11 | Ryvius | Seems to work just fine |
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| 18:38.51 | msiism | Ryvius: what do you mean by that? |
| 18:39.00 | msiism | Ryvius: does it pull any updates? |
| 18:39.53 | Ryvius | https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/f2yMhRYjz4/ |
| 18:41.36 | msiism | Ryvius: ok, what does your sources.list look like? |
| 18:42.34 | Ryvius | deb http://packages.devuan.org/merged jessie main contrib non-free |
| 18:42.36 | Ryvius | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged jessie-backports main contrib non-free |
| 18:44.16 | msiism | can you copy that file to sth like "source.list.old" and then change "packages" in the first line and "auto.mirror" in the second one to just "deb"? |
| 18:44.31 | msiism | and then run apt-get update && apt-get upgrade... |
| 18:45.20 | msiism | (changes need to be applied to "sources.list, of course, the "*.old" is just a backup) |
| 18:46.39 | Ryvius | Still no updates |
| 18:47.21 | msiism | what does your sources.list look like now? (can you paste that to a paste bin?) |
| 18:47.23 | Ryvius | I am not running 'stock' debuan by the way, but the derirative EXE Gnu |
| 18:47.39 | msiism | Ryvius: ok, hence the trinity repos. |
| 18:47.48 | msiism | but that should not be a problem, afaik. |
| 18:47.55 | Ryvius | https://paste.ubuntu.com/p/xDj3r9ZDW4/ |
| 18:48.01 | msiism | thanks |
| 18:49.52 | msiism | Ryvius: i'm not an expert at this, but in my sources.list there is another slash after "merged". i do not know if that is required, though. but it should do any harm. |
| 18:50.03 | fsmithred | Ryvius, did you set up unattended upgrades and forget about it? Look in /var/log/apt/history* to see if it's been upgrading all along |
| 18:50.06 | msiism | should not do any harm.... |
| 18:50.46 | msiism | fsmithred: is packages.devuan.org sth that actually works? |
| 18:50.59 | fsmithred | yes, that's what auto.mirror points to |
| 18:51.08 | msiism | ok, good to know |
| 18:51.13 | fsmithred | or that's what the mirrors mirror |
| 18:51.19 | msiism | i see |
| 18:51.40 | Ryvius | fsmithred: Nope, I have barely been able to run apt update until this week, due to almost non-working internet |
| 18:51.54 | Ryvius | The log just has stuff I have manually installed |
| 18:52.27 | msiism | fsmithred: what about the trailing slash then? |
| 18:53.47 | msiism | Ryvius: well, you don't seem to have any security repo enabled. |
| 18:53.56 | msiism | i mean, security updates. |
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| 18:54.13 | msiism | if those are the only two line in your source slist |
| 18:54.18 | msiism | let me show you mine |
| 18:54.31 | fsmithred | trailing slash shouldn't matter. I've done it both ways |
| 18:55.06 | msiism | Ryvius: http://paste.debian.net/plainh/9a0b41bb |
| 18:55.15 | msiism | fsmithred: ok, good. |
| 18:55.53 | golinux | Ryvius: Remember to get the most current key before you switch to pkgmaster. |
| 18:56.14 | fsmithred | if he installed in december, he should already have it |
| 18:56.26 | golinux | or deb.devuan.org or CC.deb.devuan.org |
| 18:56.34 | golinux | Just making sure. |
| 18:56.35 | msiism | Ryvius: updates on a stable release sould normally only come from "security", "updates" or "backports". (correct me if i'm wrong) |
| 18:57.02 | golinux | I get regular updates on my jessie. |
| 18:57.14 | msiism | Ryvius: and if you don't have those enabled, you won't get any updates in turn. |
| 18:57.34 | msiism | golinux: yes, but from the security and updates repos, right? |
| 18:58.03 | Ryvius | What the hell.... is that an error on Exe gnu's fault |
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| 18:58.31 | msiism | Ryvius: can't say, but it surely worth a bug report if it cam installed with that kind of sources.list. |
| 18:58.42 | msiism | s/cam/came |
| 18:59.09 | Ryvius | Now I have 79 to upgrade and 6 new packages |
| 18:59.20 | msiism | Ryvius: good. |
| 19:00.31 | msiism | Ryvius: are any packages being held back? |
| 19:01.14 | golinux | msiism: I think you're right. Never paid much attention to where the updates were coming from. |
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| 19:03.14 | msiism | golinux: i guess point release might be an exception there, but i can't say. |
| 19:03.19 | Ryvius | Nope, all seems good. Just hope it didn't mess up the driver install, still havent rebooted for that... |
| 19:03.29 | msiism | Ryvius: wait |
| 19:03.45 | msiism | Ryvius: have you installed the proprietary driver already? |
| 19:03.53 | Ryvius | I installed that before yeah |
| 19:04.21 | msiism | Ryvius: ok, i'd say that may break now, especially if there has been a kernel update |
| 19:04.34 | msiism | so you might want to install that again before you reboot. |
| 19:05.29 | Ryvius | So some kind of "install -f nvidia-driver" ? |
| 19:06.08 | msiism | Ryvius: ok, you're revering tot the thing you can download from nvidia directly? |
| 19:06.20 | msiism | s/revering/refering |
| 19:06.27 | Ryvius | No no, from backports repository |
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| 19:07.02 | msiism | Ryvius: you best read through the wiki page i linked about that. the wiki page is the expert on this (i'm not, unfortunately) |
| 19:08.15 | msiism | Ryvius: but then, if you inatlled the driver the debian way, it possibly won't break on reboot since packages would have been updated |
| 19:08.57 | msiism | (i was thinking you had done a manual install of the driver before) |
| 19:09.15 | *** join/#devuan aaa__ (~aaa__@unaffiliated/km9k62tkuq) |
| 19:09.22 | msiism | (manual meaning not thoruhg the package system) |
| 19:09.27 | Ryvius | Oh well I'll see what happens, gotta go for now, thanks again |
| 19:09.53 | msiism | Ryvius: ok. and, if you find the time, please contact exegnu about the sources.list. |
| 19:10.06 | Ryvius | Yeah, I will. Bye |
| 19:10.07 | msiism | that would really help, i guess |
| 19:10.09 | msiism | bye |
| 19:11.13 | msiism | needs to try installing a proprietary graphics driver sometime |
| 19:14.41 | msiism | is there a noteworthy technical/functional difference between running memtest from the grub menu of a machine on which it is installed vs. using a live system to run it? (more precisely: are there any caveats concerning the first one?) |
| 19:20.30 | muep | I don't think it makes much of a difference |
| 19:23.41 | msiism | muep: ok. |
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| 20:58.29 | msiism | i'm doing some updating and upgrading and deb.devuan.org is considerably slower than pkgmaster. |
| 20:59.05 | KatolaZ | msiism: it depends |
| 20:59.14 | KatolaZ | on which mirror you hit |
| 20:59.17 | KatolaZ | if it's too slow |
| 20:59.22 | KatolaZ | just CTRL+C |
| 20:59.27 | KatolaZ | and restart the upgrade |
| 20:59.33 | KatolaZ | you will hit another mirror |
| 20:59.34 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 20:59.52 | msiism | KatolaZ: ok, i see. i've been experiencing this a couple of times, so i thought i'd mention it. |
| 21:00.02 | KatolaZ | thanks msiism |
| 21:00.16 | KatolaZ | we know we have one mirror in particular that can become slow |
| 21:00.30 | msiism | ok |
| 21:00.34 | KatolaZ | but it's better having it than removing it :) |
| 21:01.08 | KatolaZ | we will work at improving the mirror infra soon |
| 21:01.46 | aslan8649 | which is the "correct" hostname "deb" or "packages" to use in /etc/apt/source.list ? |
| 21:01.55 | msiism | KatolaZ: right (about having the mirror vs. not) |
| 21:03.40 | msiism | aslan8649: you can use both, but i'd go for "deb", because that is on a newer infrastructure that updates faster, afaik. |
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| 21:06.26 | msiism | aslan8649: you might, however, hit a bit of a slow mirror through that occasionally (see above), but that's not a big deal, imo. |
| 21:08.34 | golinux | aslan8649: deb.devuan.org is the ascii default |
| 21:09.03 | golinux | The round robin takes load off of our servers. |
| 21:09.49 | golinux | You can also use pkgmaster.devuan.org or CC.deb.devuan.org |
| 21:09.59 | KatolaZ | golinux: CC? |
| 21:10.10 | golinux | Best not to use packages |
| 21:10.21 | golinux | CC = country code |
| 21:10.28 | KatolaZ | yes, I know |
| 21:10.31 | KatolaZ | but do they? |
| 21:10.34 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:10.40 | golinux | You gave me that abbreviation yesterday,. |
| 21:10.56 | golinux | I assume it was standard jargon. |
| 21:10.57 | KatolaZ | abbreviations must be well-known, or explained |
| 21:11.01 | KatolaZ | no it's not |
| 21:11.13 | KatolaZ | not as standard as "not requiring an explanation" |
| 21:11.14 | golinux | Oy. more work for me. |
| 21:11.57 | KatolaZ | well, just add "where CC is the Country-Code (e.g., 'us' for USA, 'fr' for France, and so on) |
| 21:12.02 | KatolaZ | " |
| 21:12.25 | golinux | OK. |
| 21:12.54 | msiism | shouldn't that be in [] then, or sth like that? |
| 21:12.57 | golinux | The sources.list page is going to be a bitch to 'explain' |
| 21:13.23 | golinux | I asked that exact same question msiism |
| 21:13.30 | golinux | The response was CC |
| 21:13.50 | msiism | i see |
| 21:13.50 | golinux | I originally had it <CC> |
| 21:14.16 | golinux | There are so many details and things get lost in the cracks. |
| 21:14.44 | msiism | golinux: about that sources list page, is that for the website or the install images (on-disc docd)? |
| 21:14.56 | msiism | s/docd/docs |
| 21:15.39 | golinux | Website |
| 21:16.08 | golinux | This is the current page: https://beta.devuan.org/os/etc/apt/sources.list |
| 21:16.23 | golinux | In process of updating now. |
| 21:17.10 | msiism | ok, good |
| 21:17.21 | golinux | New index and mirror pages already done on beta: https://beta.devuan.org and https://beta.devuan.org/get-devuan |
| 21:17.33 | msiism | well, as far as explanations go, i'd leave pkgmaster out of it. |
| 21:17.57 | golinux | That would be KatolaZ' decision. |
| 21:18.32 | msiism | meaning this decision ahs already been made or still has to be made? |
| 21:19.21 | KatolaZ | my decision? |
| 21:19.23 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:19.29 | KatolaZ | never decided anything |
| 21:19.38 | KatolaZ | we can leave pkgmaster out if we want |
| 21:19.45 | KatolaZ | it's in the DNS pool anyway |
| 21:19.46 | golinux | Should pkgmaster be included in the repo options? |
| 21:20.00 | KatolaZ | at the dev meeting we decided to not put it |
| 21:20.18 | msiism | i just thought, going only with "deb" and country codes would make it easier. |
| 21:20.24 | golinux | I have already included it on the mirror page |
| 21:20.35 | golinux | but can remove it. |
| 21:20.42 | msiism | KatolaZ: ok, i was there but can't remember. |
| 21:21.15 | golinux | If it's not there folks who are using it will be confused. |
| 21:21.50 | msiism | golinux: but is anything that comes by default using pkgmaster? |
| 21:22.34 | KatolaZ | msiism: pkgmaster is among the options available at install time |
| 21:22.39 | KatolaZ | we have deb.devuan.org |
| 21:22.44 | KatolaZ | {CC}.deb.devuan.org |
| 21:22.48 | KatolaZ | and pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 21:22.50 | aslan8649 | how would you "enforce" the CountryCode? with all the VPN out there Countrycodes are really sort of meaningless. |
| 21:22.54 | KatolaZ | the default is {CC}.deb.devuan.org |
| 21:23.02 | golinux | That's what I thought |
| 21:23.03 | KatolaZ | aslan8649: ? |
| 21:23.10 | KatolaZ | dunno what you are talking about |
| 21:23.17 | msiism | oh, ok. well, then it should probably be there. |
| 21:23.20 | golinux | <KatolaZ> the default is {CC}.deb.devuan.org |
| 21:23.27 | KatolaZ | we don't need to enforce anything |
| 21:23.35 | golinux | What? That's the first I've heard of that. |
| 21:23.46 | aslan8649 | is gb.deb.devuan.org for everyone or just for Great Britain. |
| 21:24.03 | KatolaZ | aslan8649: all the mirrors are available to anbody |
| 21:24.09 | KatolaZ | msiism: let's leave that out |
| 21:24.22 | msiism | KatolaZ: ok. |
| 21:24.24 | golinux | What about the lack of us servers? |
| 21:24.48 | golinux | I though deb.devuan.org was default. |
| 21:24.49 | aslan8649 | then there is the constant confusion concerning countrycode "ca" which many people assume to mean California. 'IL' which people think means Illinois. |
| 21:25.05 | msiism | aslan8649: those are IDO codes. |
| 21:25.10 | KatolaZ | aslan8649: we can't cure stupidity, or ignorance |
| 21:25.11 | msiism | ISO... |
| 21:25.29 | aslan8649 | bites this tongue. |
| 21:26.01 | aslan8649 | btw, 'IL' is Israel. |
| 21:26.48 | aslan8649 | so the CC.deb.devuan.org hosts are not geo blocked. |
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| 21:29.13 | golinux | aslan8649: I thought you reverted back to Debian. Maybe you have other machines running Devuan. If not what are you doing here exactly? |
| 21:29.33 | aslan8649 | golinux, learning and research |
| 21:30.22 | golinux | bites her tongue |
| 21:32.26 | msiism | KatolaZ: so, how exactly are those country code urls working atm (if you'd like to tell)? |
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| 21:38.56 | flrn | msiism: let me guess: the server hosting "{CC}.deb.devuan.org" is located in or near country {CC}. |
| 21:39.44 | golinux | We don't need noise atm even if it's supposed to be humorous |
| 21:40.38 | flrn | so, how exactly are those country code urls working? |
| 21:41.43 | KatolaZ | atm they are just aliases to deb.devuan.org |
| 21:41.53 | KatolaZ | they will become smarter soon |
| 21:42.26 | msiism | KatolaZ: good to know. thanks. |
| 21:42.56 | golinux | Isn't everything an alias to packages.devuan.org? |
| 21:43.01 | KatolaZ | no golinux |
| 21:43.04 | KatolaZ | it isn't |
| 21:43.15 | KatolaZ | we have 13 mirrors in place |
| 21:43.21 | KatolaZ | it's not just pkgmaster... |
| 21:44.11 | golinux | packages not pkgmaster |
| 21:45.31 | KatolaZ | neither |
| 21:49.30 | KatolaZ | pkgmaster is based on the new amprolla |
| 21:49.53 | KatolaZ | and all the mirrors behind deb.devuan.org are syncing from pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 22:09.46 | *** join/#devuan infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 22:09.46 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 22:09.48 | *** join/#devuan r00tobo (~r00tobo@unaffiliated/r00tobo) |
| 22:09.56 | *** mode/#devuan [+v infobot] by ChanServ |
| 22:24.05 | xrogaan | firefox esr is so old :( |
| 22:24.24 | xrogaan | beside firefox and chromium, which good browsers are available? |
| 22:24.39 | KatolaZ | firefox and chromium are not good browsers |
| 22:24.54 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 22:24.58 | KatolaZ | IMHO :D |
| 22:25.34 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 22:26.29 | xrogaan | what do you use then? |
| 22:27.07 | KatolaZ | surf |
| 22:27.20 | *** join/#devuan chomwitt (~chomwitt@2a02:587:dc01:ed00:50bd:f150:f8db:5fdf) |
| 22:28.58 | xrogaan | yeah, no webgl though |
| 22:30.02 | KatolaZ | webgl? |
| 22:30.10 | xrogaan | also, all kde software package starts with "k". Except Blogilo. |
| 22:31.06 | xrogaan | part of what helped kill flash? |
| 22:31.36 | xrogaan | you know, webgl? https://www.khronos.org/webgl/ |
| 22:33.32 | KatolaZ | oh! webgl! |
| 22:33.41 | KatolaZ | :\ |
| 22:36.12 | MinceR | the w3c giving up on the "open web" and letting patent-encumbered codecs and DRM into HTML5 is what helped "kill" Trash |
| 22:36.21 | MinceR | HTML5 is the new flash |
| 22:38.46 | xrogaan | open web died long ago, when companies and government understood the power game of the internet. |
| 22:38.55 | Demosthenex | gah. i have a cron job with a redirect and a exec. 5 0 * * * /usr/local/bin/borgmatic >> /var/log/borg/$(date +%Y%m%d).log 2>&1 , the syntax is right. but it keeps saying ) not found. is there a line length limit? |
| 22:43.13 | Demosthenex | https://bpaste.net/show/8d190d9ac69d |
| 22:44.53 | xrogaan | escape ( and ) |
| 22:45.11 | xrogaan | maybe? |
| 22:45.44 | xrogaan | or escape % |
| 22:45.51 | xrogaan | yeah |
| 22:47.40 | xrogaan | `$(date "+%Y%m%d")' or `$(date +\%Y\%m\%d)'. Not very fluent in cronjob thingy |
| 22:50.18 | xrogaan | yes yes, you need to escape the % |
| 22:50.37 | xrogaan | because % is used by cronjob for multi-line jobs. |
| 22:52.31 | xrogaan | https://man.cx/crontab(5)#heading6 |
| 22:54.08 | *** join/#devuan _0bitcount (~Big_Byte@90.162.105.206) |
| 22:56.42 | *** join/#devuan blitzed (~blitzed@185.245.87.30) |
| 22:56.44 | *** join/#devuan bpmedley (~bpm@c-24-72-144-115.ni.gigamonster.net) |
| 22:57.03 | xrogaan | Demosthenex: ^ |
| 22:57.10 | xrogaan | also man 5 crontab |
| 23:03.24 | *** join/#devuan Xenguy (~Xenguy@unaffiliated/xenguy) |
| 23:23.05 | Demosthenex | ah |
| 23:29.39 | Demosthenex | yeah, that'd do it. |
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| 23:29.49 | Demosthenex | i've put a \ before all the %'s |
| 23:30.00 | Demosthenex | once borg's done with the backup, i'll set it hourly to test |
| 23:30.37 | Demosthenex | wtf, on a devuan channel you linked me a systemd cron man page?! |
| 23:31.37 | Demosthenex | https://linux.die.net/man/5/crontab would be a better link |
| 23:32.28 | xrogaan | There are no anchor on die.net |
| 23:32.40 | xrogaan | you can get your man page locally anyhow |
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| 23:33.49 | nacelle | might be better to have a wrapper around borgmatic that does the redirection with the scripting, then call that from cron instead |
| 23:35.20 | nacelle | dislikes relying on "complex" crontab entries, has been burnt readily by this in the past (especially upgrading or migrating, then its "yet another thing to fix" at the eleventh hour) |
| 23:35.30 | nacelle | may have some angry opinions about this topic :( |
| 23:36.11 | xrogaan | Why, a 10 lines cronjob would never fail you. |
