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| 00:22.55 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 08:16.09 | topro | hi there, seems like latest upgrade of devuan ascii breaks elogind again. |
| 08:16.25 | topro | doing dist-upgrade wants to REMOVE libpam-elogind libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind libpolkit-gobject-1-0-elogind |
| 08:16.37 | topro | instead installs libpolkit-backend-1-0 libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-1-0 libpolkit-gobject-consolekit-1-0 |
| 08:16.50 | topro | this results in shutdown from KDE session not working any more |
| 08:17.00 | topro | anyone else experienced that? |
| 08:19.27 | gnu_srs1 | topro: Installing libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 manually should solve that problem |
| 08:20.30 | gnu_srs1 | topro: Can you please paste the output from apt-get dist-upgrade somewhere? |
| 08:20.54 | gnu_srs1 | before manually installing libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 |
| 08:21.27 | topro | gnu_srs1: I do have libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind installed manually. so what is the difference to libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 (with 1-0 at the end of the name instead of in the middle) |
| 08:22.37 | gnu_srs1 | The naming of libpolkit-backend-1-0-elogind was a mistake with the +devuan2.4 version. |
| 08:23.10 | gnu_srs1 | It should be OK now with +devuan2.9 :) |
| 08:23.18 | topro | gnu_srs1: https://paste.debian.net/1021920/ |
| 08:24.36 | gnu_srs1 | The versions are not shown in your pacte. Can you do apt-get -s dist-upgrade, -s stands for simulate |
| 08:25.29 | gnu_srs1 | And please remove ascii-proposed from your sources.list |
| 08:26.15 | topro | oh ok. I added ascii-proposed back when I was early-adopting elogind, the forgot about it |
| 08:27.22 | topro | apt -s dist-upgrade: https://paste.debian.net/1021921/ |
| 08:29.03 | gnu_srs1 | tks. Do you have aptitude? then try aptitude why libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 |
| 08:30.36 | topro | aptitude why: https://paste.debian.net/1021922/ |
| 08:30.50 | topro | all of that still with proposed |
| 08:31.01 | topro | will remove proposed now |
| 08:33.00 | topro | whithout proposed still same result, will now try manually installing libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 |
| 08:33.05 | gnu_srs1 | ok, I don't think anything will change. Do you see the last row: libpolkit-backend-consolekit-1-0 comes before libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 |
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| 08:34.06 | gnu_srs1 | We are missing Depends: and Conflicts: for some packages. |
| 08:34.42 | topro | well, manually installing libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 seems to look quite ok... |
| 08:34.48 | gnu_srs1 | But manually installing libpolkit-backend-elogind-1-0 should solve your problem. |
| 08:35.02 | topro | https://paste.debian.net/1021923/ |
| 08:35.18 | topro | seems to do the trick |
| 08:35.23 | gnu_srs1 | Did you install task-kde-desktop? |
| 08:35.36 | topro | don't think so, installed kde-full |
| 08:35.52 | gnu_srs1 | OK; |
| 08:35.55 | topro | no, its not installed |
| 08:36.04 | topro | would that help either way? |
| 08:36.19 | topro | or at least be recommended? never thought about task meta packages |
| 08:36.37 | gnu_srs1 | You had consolekit libpam-ck-connector installed. That's why consolekit was preferred. |
| 08:37.12 | gnu_srs1 | Well, for new installs the tasks are used. |
| 08:37.26 | topro | thats due to the fact that those are old debian installations which have gone through some upgrades before migrating from debian wheezy to devuan jessie some times ago. so they do have some legacy |
| 08:37.30 | gnu_srs1 | And manual installations. |
| 08:38.48 | gnu_srs1 | Yes, the upgrades can be problematic, especially from the beta. |
| 08:39.26 | topro | never mind. your hint just did the trick. thank you very much! |
| 08:40.53 | gnu_srs1 | YW. Just interested, do you upgrade from the beta? |
| 08:41.37 | topro | tried task-kde-desktop. this wants to bring in network-manager which is great for mobile machines but I absolutely dont want that on stationary machines. any way of preventing those metas from pulling nm? |
| 08:41.56 | topro | what do you mean by "upgrade from beta"? |
| 08:42.22 | gnu_srs1 | ascii-beta image |
| 08:42.54 | gnu_srs1 | Since you have packages with the faulty names installed. |
| 08:43.22 | gnu_srs1 | Or maybe they came from ascii-proposed? |
| 08:44.12 | topro | I have one or two machines I set up from ascii-beta image, not sure if those are affected as well. other older machines which have been installed at different times BEFORE devuan was there are affected. but I did install elogind as early adopter from ascii-proposed. so it might be that this is the reason way updrade now had this isse. maybe just because there was still consolekit there |
| 08:53.36 | KatolaZ | topro: just remove it |
| 08:53.52 | topro | just remove what? |
| 08:53.56 | KatolaZ | nm |
| 08:54.03 | KatolaZ | the task-*-desktop packages are meant for people who want *everything* |
| 08:54.19 | KatolaZ | or install only the kde components that you need |
| 08:54.25 | KatolaZ | instead of task-kde-desktop |
| 08:54.28 | topro | ah ok. thanks. thats how I used to do it after installing kde-full. wanted to know if there is a way to "blacklist" nm in the first place |
| 08:54.50 | KatolaZ | topro: not from task-kde-desktop |
| 08:54.54 | KatolaZ | it's actually a Recommends |
| 08:55.01 | KatolaZ | this is how task-* packages work |
| 08:55.47 | gnu_srs1 | One problem with the task-* packages are all Recommends being installed :( |
| 08:56.50 | gnu_srs1 | But as people say: They might be needed for a complete operational desktop :D |
| 08:58.00 | KatolaZ | gnu_srs1: this is why task-* packages actually exists |
| 08:58.09 | KatolaZ | never used them tbh |
| 08:58.15 | KatolaZ | but apparently some people like them |
| 08:58.16 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 08:58.29 | topro | ok, will stick with instally kde-full and removing nm afterwards. thats how it works for me |
| 08:59.52 | KatolaZ | topro: if you install kde-full nm should not be pulled in |
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| 09:01.32 | topro | KatolaZ: but it is |
| 09:02.33 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 09:02.38 | KatolaZ | dunno kde packaging, tbh |
| 09:02.48 | KatolaZ | just remove it afterwards |
| 09:02.55 | KatolaZ | I guess it shouldn't complain |
| 09:02.57 | topro | well its not that big of an issue, more kind of annying |
| 09:03.22 | topro | removing works, doesn't break anything |
| 09:03.57 | topro | only thing is, nm is not working any more afterwards :D |
| 09:04.07 | topro | ;) |
| 09:06.41 | KatolaZ | well, if you remove it.... |
| 09:06.59 | topro | thats what the ;) was for |
| 09:07.12 | KatolaZ | that's a feeature :) |
| 09:07.36 | topro | you're right |
| 09:07.52 | topro | my fault... |
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| 09:15.43 | Digit | hi. how would one go about getting the likes of https://downloads.natron.fr/Linux/releases/64bit/files/natron_2.3.10_amd64.deb in devuan? it seems to have a login-wall for binaries. is there perhaps a media repo for things like natron? does it need someone clever to package it? are natron secretly anti-freedom? ~exhausted~ |
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| 09:33.05 | djph | I assume that you login, and then download the binary. |
| 09:33.09 | djph | *deb package |
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| 10:25.37 | Digit | https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=775490 old problem persists. |
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| 11:11.29 | KatolaZ | Digit: I guess some of the deps are not compatible with the GNU GPL |
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| 11:12.14 | KatolaZ | and anyway, requesting a registration is not against the GPL |
| 11:12.24 | KatolaZ | as long as they give you access to the sources |
| 11:12.38 | KatolaZ | and to all the stuff needed to build them and obtain the same executable |
| 11:13.02 | KatolaZ | otherwise they would be in breach of the GNU GPL |
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| 12:28.34 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 14:25.08 | DocScrutinizer51 | !ping |
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| 15:12.02 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 18:43.26 | telmich | hmm |
| 18:43.36 | telmich | the last dist-upgrade a few seconds ago killed my xorg installation |
| 18:44.12 | telmich | xorg crashed directly after the update with: |
| 18:44.12 | telmich | [196944.279] (EE) systemd-logind disappeared (stopped/restarted?) |
| 18:44.38 | telmich | Trying to start it after reboot results into: |
| 18:44.47 | telmich | [ 202.869] (EE) modeset(0): drmSetMaster failed: Permission denied |
| 18:44.51 | telmich | [ 202.869] (EE) AddScreen/ScreenInit failed for driver 0 |
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| 18:45.03 | telmich | jfyi -- I will try to debug what is going on |
| 18:45.24 | telmich | I can still start xorg as root, so it is certainly a permission issue |
| 18:47.42 | gnarface | i think i've seen 3 causes of this |
| 18:47.47 | gnarface | well, 3 fixes, one cause really |
| 18:47.54 | telmich | /dev/dri/* are rw for group video, which I am in |
| 18:47.58 | telmich | oh? |
| 18:48.02 | telmich | That would be interesting |
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| 18:48.41 | telmich | interestingly after the dist-upgrade elogind:amd64 (234.4-2), libelogind0:amd64 (234.4-2) were marked for removal |
| 18:48.54 | telmich | but removing or keeping them, either way causes the permission issue |
| 18:49.34 | gnarface | xorg used to run suid root by default |
| 18:50.02 | gnarface | there's a wrapper still available for that, but you might not have it enabled |
| 18:50.21 | gnarface | additionally, some drivers still require it despite it no longer being the default |
| 18:51.06 | gnarface | tangentially to that it seems that it has affected auto-detect in a way that if you weren't specifying an xorg driver, you may not be using the same one anymore |
| 18:51.18 | gnarface | which can further complicate debugging if you don't suspect it as a possibility |
| 18:51.55 | KatolaZ | telmich: which DE are you using? |
| 18:52.07 | telmich | KatolaZ: i3 |
| 18:52.20 | KatolaZ | so why do you need elogind or consolekit? |
| 18:52.29 | KatolaZ | i3 doesn't do session management, IIRC |
| 18:52.39 | KatolaZ | (doesn't need session management) |
| 18:52.43 | telmich | I don't "use" it - it just happened to be on the autoremove list after the dist upgrade :-) |
| 18:52.52 | telmich | I'm using startx -> i3 |
| 18:52.53 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 18:53.01 | KatolaZ | it's ascii, right? |
| 18:53.05 | telmich | yep |
| 18:53.33 | telmich | Thought with a kernel from ubuntu *hust* as the kernel in ascii does not allow me to suspend to ram the notebook |
| 18:53.45 | telmich | So I am running 4.15.0-2-amd64 |
| 18:54.15 | KatolaZ | telmich: you have 4.15 in ascii-backports... |
| 18:54.25 | KatolaZ | anyway |
| 18:54.25 | telmich | gnarface: I actually have xserver-xorg-legacy |
| 18:54.41 | telmich | KatolaZ: oh, good point - will enable them after I can run xorg again :-) |
| 18:55.59 | KatolaZ | telmich: I guess the upgrade might have pulled it consolekit |
| 18:56.03 | KatolaZ | but maybe you don't need it |
| 18:57.46 | telmich | so ... how do you guys start x? also via startx + suid wrapper or differently? |
| 18:57.53 | KatolaZ | I use wdm |
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| 18:58.55 | gnarface | telmich: i use startx, and i'm not having a problem, but i also have a static xorg.conf everywhere i'm using it which specifies the appropriate driver - i never rely on auto-detect and i always make sure i have all the firmware |
| 18:59.29 | gnarface | in at least one case, we saw this problem you're having happen because of missing firmware |
| 19:01.06 | gnarface | (missing firmware caused auto-detect to fail over to vesa or some legacy framebuffer driver that gave the same drm error as a red herring) |
| 19:01.59 | gnarface | i would compare your xorg.0.log to one from the last known working state if you still can get one |
| 19:02.18 | gnarface | any difference in the video driver it settles on may be an important clue here |
| 19:02.59 | gnarface | obviously it's also possible there's a problem with your kernel but it wouldn't be my first guess |
| 19:03.16 | gnarface | however if you copied /etc/X11 contents from ubuntu too, all bets are off |
| 19:05.30 | gnarface | one thing ubuntu does differently is they include all the firmware by default |
| 19:19.05 | telmich | no, /etc/ is still plain - the only thing I got from ubuntu is the kernel |
| 19:19.17 | telmich | I am just checking my log directory |
| 19:19.34 | muep | I think also ubuntu will include only the firmware that they are legally allowed to |
| 19:20.58 | telmich | ahh... I still have the logfile of the crash |
| 19:21.04 | telmich | which was all fine prior to update |
| 19:21.28 | gnarface | if it's not running suid root, the new log location is ~/.local/share/xorg/ |
| 19:21.30 | telmich | what is "funny" is that it crashed with |
| 19:21.31 | telmich | [196944.279] (EE) systemd-logind disappeared (stopped/restarted?) |
| 19:21.45 | telmich | gnarface: yep, that's where I have it from |
| 19:22.46 | gnarface | not running suid root and failing over to an older driver that still required it would be exactly what caused that issue on my pinebook |
| 19:23.20 | telmich | I am on modesetting, which is usaallyually fine |
| 19:23.57 | telmich | I actually created cbacklight for it, probably known to one or the other in a different form |
| 19:24.00 | telmich | ooops |
| 19:24.04 | telmich | [ 2960.356917] blk_partition_remap: fail for partition 3 |
| 19:24.10 | telmich | I think I might have more trouble |
| 19:24.37 | telmich | bash: /sbin/reboot: Input/output error |
| 19:24.42 | telmich | bbl |
| 19:27.10 | telmich | I am w/o X now -- can somebody paste the devaun backports url in here? |
| 19:30.16 | parazyd | deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii-backports main |
| 19:30.37 | parazyd | telmich: are you losing files? |
| 19:31.01 | telmich | parazyd: no... i have had thei/o error some times... I am suspecting overheating |
| 19:31.04 | telmich | thanks a lot |
| 19:31.34 | parazyd | you're welcome |
| 19:31.41 | parazyd | don't take i/o errors lightly though. |
| 19:32.21 | parazyd | also, suspect the kernel |
| 19:32.24 | parazyd | update it :) |
| 19:32.26 | telmich | I did actually see a problem withi915 module, so gnarface hint might be right |
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| 19:33.35 | telmich | (sorry for typos, wrong keyboard, tiny resolution atm) |
| 19:35.45 | telmich | ... kernel upgrade in the train ... quite some fun |
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| 19:39.17 | parazyd | :) |
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| 19:40.09 | parazyd | btw about your xorg stuff. you'll want xserver-xorg-legacy and "needs_root_rights=yes" in /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config |
| 19:40.34 | parazyd | getting it to work without root can get tedious and it's not really worth it. |
| 19:41.06 | parazyd | you'd basically make it group suid and anyone in that group can then see what you're doing anyway |
| 19:42.04 | parazyd | using modesetting i never got xorg to work without root fwiw. only with the old intel driver. |
| 19:45.22 | telmich | back!!! |
| 19:45.31 | telmich | needs_root_rights=yes was the keyword I needed |
| 19:45.46 | telmich | ohhh.. so nice... regular keyboard layout, regular font size |
| 19:46.19 | telmich | Thanks a lot, parazyd and gnarface! |
| 19:46.32 | parazyd | you're welcome |
| 19:51.21 | telmich | out of curiosity, not for a flame war: which is your main editor? |
| 19:51.48 | telmich | I out myself as a recently converted emacs user |
| 19:52.27 | Lydia_K | vim |
| 19:52.37 | Lydia_K | but emacs is good too, just not my cup of tea. |
| 19:53.25 | telmich | I currently observe 2.5 main streams in the different communities I am in: vim, emacs and subl (that's the .5) |
| 19:59.48 | gnarface | i'm still using emacs, and i can help both of you get your Intel GPUs working without running xorg as root, but i can't authoritatively tell you it would actually be materially more secure (since it would require the binary firmware blob that does god-only-knows-what besides "not need root access") |
| 20:00.42 | gnarface | i assume it's just a backdoor that gives the driver root access |
| 20:00.51 | muep | I'd say that proprietary firmware gets to run in any case |
| 20:01.22 | muep | otherwise it is difficult to have even something as essential as a hard disk |
| 20:02.59 | holla | telmich: vim here -- i'm just too stupid for emacs |
| 20:03.18 | KatolaZ | telmich: emacs, vi, ed |
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| 20:05.14 | holla | emacs is an awesome OS, it only lacks a decent editor ;) |
| 20:09.17 | MinceR | well, there's evil |
| 20:09.48 | parazyd | MinceR: why not just use vim instead of making emacs behave like vim? |
| 20:10.42 | MinceR | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 20:11.01 | MinceR | i would say "SLIME" except i think there's a vim plugin for that already |
| 20:21.45 | holla | https://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 |
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| 20:53.11 | jackman | hello |
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| 21:06.03 | *** join/#devuan aitor (~aitor@90.85-84-168.dynamic.clientes.euskaltel.es) |
| 21:06.07 | aitor | hi |
| 21:06.14 | g4570n | hi aitor |
| 21:06.36 | aitor | hi |
| 21:07.46 | aitor | Lydia_K, are you there? |
| 21:08.32 | aitor | talking about vim, you said: |
| 21:08.39 | aitor | "but emacs is good too, just not my cup of tea" |
| 21:10.40 | aitor | i found the same expression in another site |
| 21:11.30 | aitor | i mean: "my cup of tea" |
| 21:12.15 | g4570n | ed ¡mola! |
| 21:13.54 | aitor | at the bottom of Steve Litt's articule: |
| 21:13.57 | aitor | http://troubleshooters.com/projects/umenu2/#todo |
| 21:15.38 | msiism | aitor: are you wondering what the phrase means? |
| 21:15.48 | aitor | talking about the gui version of umenu, he says: |
| 21:16.00 | aitor | Some people like GUI and the whole mouse thing. Not my cup of tea, but some people love it. |
| 21:16.22 | xrogaan | trying to use libnoise, but the /usr/lib/libnoise.a file in libnoise-dev only contain !<arch>... |
| 21:16.31 | xrogaan | Not sure it's supposed to be that way. |
| 21:17.18 | aitor | libnoise-dev? sorry, it's not my cup of tea :) |
| 21:17.40 | g4570n | :D |
| 21:18.28 | aitor | g4570n: go to bed |
| 21:19.08 | unixman | drinks a cup of tea |
| 21:19.35 | aitor | bye :) |
| 21:20.03 | msiism | xrogaan: you'd probably have to ask the package maintainer about that. |
| 21:21.32 | xrogaan | good chances there are not official maintainer for that library :P |
| 21:21.49 | msiism | xrogaan: https://packages.debian.org/jessie/libnoise-dev |
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| 21:36.07 | xrogaan | I know |
| 21:37.26 | xrogaan | stretch is Debian QA Group. |
| 21:37.31 | xrogaan | jessie is too old |
| 21:38.05 | msiism | xrogaan: ok. |
| 21:41.03 | msiism | xrogaan: maybe you could compare both and see if it lead anywhere. like: was it working on jessie? |
| 21:42.54 | xrogaan | the .a is the same |
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| 21:43.09 | xrogaan | the library hasn't been updated in years, so they just repack. |
| 21:43.29 | xrogaan | or something like that, I don't know. |
| 21:43.37 | msiism | xrogaan: is it usable? |
| 21:44.15 | xrogaan | it should, I'm not a CPP dev and I'm just trying to understand how to link to libraries |
| 21:45.27 | msiism | xrogaan: i see. |
| 21:48.11 | xrogaan | yep, just fine once you know what to do. It's just way easier with pkg-config |
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