| 00:03.25 | specing | why would you set noexec on /tmp in the first place? |
| 00:05.21 | gnarface | specifically to keep that from happening |
| 00:05.31 | gnarface | to keep random scripts from being run out of it |
| 00:07.07 | zyliwax | yeah i don't want any user to be able to run scripts in such a widely accessible directory |
| 00:07.33 | zyliwax | ideally apt can be reconfigured to use a different directory for these tempscripts, let's reproduce the error message... |
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| 00:25.14 | zyliwax | https://dpaste.de/74Rn/raw |
| 00:25.36 | zyliwax | ^ this is what i get when installing certain packages, making me think they aren't being properly configured |
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| 00:33.56 | gnarface | oh, i can assure you they are not |
| 00:34.18 | gnarface | i think one of the non-free firmware packages basically fails to even download the firmware |
| 00:34.46 | gnarface | you'll definitely want to reinstall those packages |
| 00:35.27 | zyliwax | hmm yeah, i'm just trying to set up a minimal xorg server using xserver-xorg-legacy to avoid starting the server as root |
| 00:36.09 | zyliwax | and i'm getting permission denied errors whenever i try to run xinit as my regular user despite it being in the video group |
| 00:36.49 | zyliwax | i feel like getting to the bottom of the apt issue would be a better first step |
| 00:37.26 | zyliwax | (also i don't know what packages received this error! can't i just reinstall the whole set of packages again?) |
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| 00:41.36 | gnarface | that might be a problem |
| 00:41.40 | gnarface | it won't be many of them though |
| 00:41.48 | gnarface | i don't think |
| 00:42.05 | gnarface | did you also add yourself to the input group? |
| 00:42.22 | zyliwax | doing research now, seems i may have luck changing the value of TMPDIR in dpkg's environment... perhaps set it in /etc/dpkg.conf |
| 00:42.34 | zyliwax | gnarface: no i am not in input group! let me change that up... |
| 00:43.50 | gnarface | although, in theory, i think xserver-xorg-legacy should preclude the need to add yourself to the input group |
| 00:43.56 | gnarface | not sure about that |
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| 00:45.37 | zyliwax | eh it's still giving me the same problems, am i supposed to do setuid manually? i don't want to interfere with the package's normal operation |
| 00:46.32 | gnarface | i don't think so |
| 00:46.45 | gnarface | but i did have to once, on ceres |
| 00:48.44 | gnarface | what do you have in /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config? |
| 00:50.20 | gnarface | zyliwax: ^ |
| 00:51.23 | gnarface | if you're missing the file entirely, maybe one of those scripts that was supposed to run from /tmp was supposed to create it |
| 00:51.43 | gnarface | the comments in my version mention you can run: dpkg-reconfigure x11-common |
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| 01:00.31 | zyliwax | yeah i have that /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config file |
| 01:00.59 | zyliwax | this is presumably a fresh debootstrap install of devuan ascii from a refracta 8.3 nox livecd |
| 01:01.50 | zyliwax | there were some differences in the chroot setup method between debian.org and dev1fanboy's guide |
| 01:02.35 | zyliwax | at first i just used dev1fanboy's guide except for s/jessie/ascii/g + human intelligence where needed |
| 01:03.04 | zyliwax | but i was getting errors that /dev/shm couldn't be accessed, which persisted after i mounted some systems per debian.org's instructions |
| 01:03.27 | zyliwax | so i probably have some frankenstein install at this point :o |
| 01:03.46 | zyliwax | also, allowed_users=console and i am presumably a console user |
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| 01:07.51 | gnarface | zyliwax: well, is /usr/lib/xorg/Xorg.wrap suid already or not? |
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| 01:09.12 | zyliwax | yeah it appears to be so -- i thought it'd be applied to /usr/bin/Xorg, so maybe Xorg.wrap isn't being called |
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| 01:19.51 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
| 01:23.32 | gnarface | so, i also ran into the same issue on arm64 where it turned out to be that the default framebuffer driver getting loaded wasn't acknowledging the new permissions setup or something |
| 01:23.40 | gnarface | but the problem was just that it was loading the wrong driver |
| 01:24.01 | gnarface | when i created enough of an xorg.conf to force the right one to load, the permission error also disappeared |
| 01:25.27 | gnarface | zyliwax: which driver does the xorg log say it is using? |
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| 02:07.57 | zyliwax | gnarface: "Loading /usr/lib/xorg/module/drivers/modesetting_drv.so" this isn't what you're looking for is it? |
| 02:08.48 | zyliwax | hmm '(EE) Failed to load module "fbdev" (module does not exist, 0)' that's weird |
| 02:08.52 | gnarface | zyliwax: no, i don't think so, but that doesn't mean modesetting isn't a problem |
| 02:09.16 | gnarface | do you have the xserver-xorg-video-fbdev package? |
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| 02:09.28 | gnarface | that also doesn't mean that's the right driver, but it should be there |
| 02:09.50 | gnarface | what was the video device in this thing again? |
| 02:11.12 | zyliwax | gnarface: it's an i915 |
| 02:12.11 | gnarface | https://wiki.debian.org/KernelModesetting |
| 02:12.14 | gnarface | i wonder if this is relevant |
| 02:12.43 | gnarface | are you missing xserver-xorg-video-intel too? |
| 02:13.06 | zyliwax | no, i just checked a moment ago knowing it should be there |
| 02:13.19 | zyliwax | uh, maybe i should just restart the box? it's not holding the world up or anything |
| 02:13.31 | gnarface | probably won't help but it won't hurt either |
| 02:13.42 | gnarface | most likely you just have to make it load that intel driver |
| 02:14.00 | gnarface | i'm sure debian's wiki had a page on how to set up intel graphics |
| 02:14.25 | zyliwax | hopefully it all works out once i get back in here |
| 02:14.33 | zyliwax | or after rebuilding my initramfs |
| 02:15.02 | gnarface | it could matter... i think that driver has a kernel component ... |
| 02:18.59 | gnarface | sorry, if i had known you were messing with the kernel too, i would not have said that a reboot probably won't help |
| 02:19.40 | zyliwax | actually, reboot potentially made things slightly better, it's no longer returning errors when trying to load some drivers but i'm still denied access to set mode |
| 02:20.31 | gnarface | yea ignore the mode set error |
| 02:21.02 | gnarface | work on making the right video driver for the i915 load and the modeset error will probably just disappear |
| 02:21.15 | gnarface | you should only need a small bit of the xorg.conf |
| 02:21.38 | gnarface | there is even a manpage for it |
| 02:21.54 | gnarface | ("man intel" and "man xorg.conf" both exist) |
| 02:21.55 | zyliwax | https://xkcd.com/963/ :) |
| 02:22.53 | gnarface | well i'd write it for you but i have to get cleaned up for dinner |
| 02:22.58 | gnarface | it's like 4 lines you can do it |
| 02:23.23 | zyliwax | oh i wouldn't ask you to do so anyway but that's very kind of you (in addition to all your help just now!) |
| 02:23.41 | zyliwax | i really should know what i am doing here, and yeah i doubt it's going to be hard to set up |
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| 02:58.52 | blop | stabs amdgpu some more for good measure |
| 03:00.08 | blop | dark background light text ffox plugin stopped working... t.f. |
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| 04:04.27 | zyliwax | gnarface: looks like adding those four lines did the trick, thanks again for your help! |
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| 06:46.54 | gnarface | no problem zyliwax |
| 06:46.59 | gnarface | glad it works |
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| 07:20.48 | zyliwax | i suppose i should find out how broken my system is after it refused to run all those scripts in /tmp |
| 07:22.28 | gnarface | maybe you can grep the output of `dpkg -l` for packages that have a bad status |
| 07:22.41 | gnarface | that left column is the status |
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| 08:20.35 | mns`` | good morning! |
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| 08:22.02 | zyliwax | [1;5D\\ |
| 08:22.05 | zyliwax | iiii |
| 08:24.18 | Dantalion | morning all |
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| 08:30.46 | zyliwax | seems i sneezed in the channel, pardon me |
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| 11:57.15 | mhc | FYI - im very happy with my Devuan box. I retrieved some nearly 20 year old hardware from the shed, which after many years of tempuratures over 40 degrees C, still runs Devuan nicely. |
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| 12:28.40 | quad | Anyone know how to install npm on Devuan Ascii? dist-upgraded from Jessie since I need Ascii to get the minimum node version that Ghost officially supports. |
| 12:29.03 | quad | But now I can't find out how to install npm since the "nodejs" package only includes the binary. Node doesn't get very far without npm |
| 12:29.44 | djph | quad: apt-cache search turn up anything? |
| 12:30.14 | quad | I only found a weird package called "node-npm-run-path", but installing that didn't do anything in particular |
| 12:31.10 | quad | I thought it was some weird thing that adds npm to the path, but it seems to add npm stuff to your path instead |
| 12:31.11 | quad | https://file.quad.moe/Hyper_2018-02-02_13-30-50.png |
| 12:31.28 | KatolaZ | quad: what is npm? |
| 12:31.57 | quad | KatolaZ: Node.js' package manager. 99% of the stuff you'd run with node is probably installed via npm |
| 12:32.02 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 12:32.05 | KatolaZ | it's not in stabe |
| 12:32.09 | KatolaZ | Debian stable |
| 12:32.17 | KatolaZ | and it's not in Debian testing either |
| 12:32.19 | Irrwahn | "package manager for Node.js" - I can only see it in Debian unstable. |
| 12:32.21 | KatolaZ | have a look here: |
| 12:32.26 | KatolaZ | https://tracker.debian.org/pkg/npm |
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| 12:32.45 | KatolaZ | the package seems to be effectively orphaned |
| 12:33.16 | quad | Well that's unfortunate. I wonder if I can get the nodesource debian repos to work with devuan ascii then |
| 12:33.26 | quad | Probably not the most stable solution though |
| 12:33.31 | djph | don't see why you can't just build it from source |
| 12:33.33 | KatolaZ | quad: it's not in stretch |
| 12:33.50 | KatolaZ | the latest version available il debian is 1.4.21 |
| 12:33.59 | KatolaZ | the latest upstream is 5.something |
| 12:34.22 | KatolaZ | quad: have a look at the link to tracker I posted above |
| 12:34.39 | quad | djph: Because I've heard node stuff takes ages to compile |
| 12:35.04 | djph | so? |
| 12:35.08 | quad | KatolaZ: Yeah, I saw the tracker link |
| 12:35.17 | djph | kids these days and their instant gratification ... |
| 12:35.21 | quad | djph: I am a lazy man. But if that's the only option I have then I'll have to do it |
| 12:35.36 | quad | Also I've only got 512MB ram on the VPS so hopefully that's enough, node is probably large |
| 12:35.41 | djph | ew |
| 12:37.32 | KatolaZ | I guess the reason it has been removed from Debian is that node.js is a target without rest |
| 12:37.51 | quad | Probably |
| 12:38.00 | KatolaZ | I mean, in the 1.5 years of a testing release, they could break the same thing 4 or 5 times |
| 12:38.16 | KatolaZ | so I am not surprised at all |
| 12:38.20 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 12:38.30 | quad | Frankly I'm not a fan of node at all. I should bother migrating my blog to a site generator or something one day |
| 12:39.03 | djph | or use php? |
| 12:39.09 | KatolaZ | or golang |
| 12:39.32 | djph | I mean, isn't that the whole point of stuff like joomla / wordpress (or that shitty python one ... what was it jango?) |
| 12:39.48 | quad | Django is pretty mediocre imo |
| 12:40.06 | quad | I use a lot of flask, and I wrote a blog in it once. Maintaining it and adding features was just more work than it was worth for a blog |
| 12:40.16 | quad | Especially once I tried to implement tagging of posts |
| 12:40.41 | djph | quad: yes, it is; hence my "that shitty python one" |
| 12:40.49 | quad | lmao |
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| 13:24.18 | jaromil | ahoy, yesterday I installed Devuan Jessie on a super-fancy Lenovo X1 Carbon and I was sooo happy to see *everything* worked |
| 13:24.34 | jaromil | wifi, monitor high res. wow. then upgraded to ascii and 4.14 kernel also smooth |
| 13:24.56 | jaromil | amazing we can support so well also most recent laptops. at the time of dyne:bolic this would have been a nightmare |
| 13:25.08 | jaromil | also golinux your styling looks very well even on such huge monitors |
| 13:30.50 | coyote | what blocks the ascii to release? |
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| 13:40.40 | MinceR | jessie didn't like my x270 that much |
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| 13:53.50 | jaromil | coyote: its about updating the d-i for the iso installers. on devuan-dev we have daily updates |
| 13:54.12 | jaromil | and there is already an installer published there for those who want to test and give feedback |
| 13:54.33 | jaromil | for the rest, ascii is already dist-upgradable and works |
| 13:55.08 | jaromil | but for the installer I think all this attention is worthed. the effort is lead by KatolaZ and will lead to a rather perfect installer just like we have in jessie. I think is very important |
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| 13:57.38 | coyote | thanks |
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| 14:01.40 | jaromil | you are welcome. anyone willing to help with some weekly or monthly news is very welcome, we have a lot of people asking but the progress does not gets communicated out of the development channel |
| 14:04.08 | coyote | i think it's hard to make deb packages? |
| 14:04.40 | coyote | has debian/devuan a handbook about itself? |
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| 14:16.53 | blop | 'hard'... no. but it takes some learning. maybe a page or two worth of stuff to absorb. |
| 14:17.09 | blop | if you're going from a base package that's similar to your project |
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| 14:22.19 | jaromil | we'll have soon a developer's manual including instructions for packaging and for making derivatives using our SDK |
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| 14:53.28 | fromport | after update on ceres, my audio stopped working. anyone any idea where to start looking ? |
| 14:54.07 | KatolaZ | fromport: alsamixer :) |
| 14:54.28 | coyote | $ alsactl init |
| 14:54.38 | g4570n | !ping |
| 14:54.38 | infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss |
| 14:55.50 | fromport | http://www2.dth.net/devuan/alsamixer_screenshot_20180202.png |
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| 14:56.26 | fromport | Found hardware: "HDA-Intel" "Cirrus Logic CS4206" "HDA:10134206,106b5c00,00100302" "0x8086" "0x7270 Hardware is initialized using a generic method |
| 14:56.32 | fromport | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:57.10 | fromport | does that seem normal ? |
| 14:57.18 | fromport | sorry for the double post |
| 14:57.31 | KatolaZ | speaker is muted... |
| 14:57.59 | KatolaZ | (I guess it is muted, since the icons on top are white, not green) |
| 14:58.12 | KatolaZ | (sorry but I normally use the TUI version) |
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| 15:03.06 | fromport | audacious isn't playing because of this error: ALSA error: snd_pcm_open failed: Device or resource busy. |
| 15:04.11 | KatolaZ | fromport: do you have PA installed? |
| 15:05.36 | golinux | quad: If you ever see blinkdog in this channel, talk to him about nodejs. |
| 15:07.15 | golinux | jaromil: Good to know that the theme is working OK. Thanks for letting me know. |
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| 15:33.48 | fromport | KatolaZ: https://pastebin.com/X9SeLzTR |
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| 16:36.00 | coyote | i tried an upgrade to ascii |
| 16:36.05 | coyote | >After this operation, 1587 MB of additional disk space will be used. |
| 16:36.13 | coyote | is it normal? |
| 16:37.34 | coyote | >1345 upgraded, 466 newly installed, 258 to remove and 2 not upgraded. |
| 16:44.25 | KatolaZ | coyote: do you have "recommends" and "suggests" ebabled? |
| 16:45.02 | KatolaZ | (well, whether it's "normal" depends only on the type and amount of packages you currently have installed in your system...) |
| 16:45.31 | KatolaZ | coyote: also consider that this is a dist-upgrade, not just an upgrade... |
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| 16:58.06 | golinux | coyote: Do you have backports enabled? |
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| 17:06.36 | flrn | coyote: to be sure, i'd run apt-get update once more and look for errors... |
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| 17:11.30 | coyote | qq |
| 17:11.33 | coyote | sorry for afk |
| 17:11.40 | coyote | ok, thanks |
| 17:11.53 | coyote | i just try |
| 17:11.58 | coyote | not really upgrading |
| 17:12.48 | coyote | jessie will be supported till 2020, it's very long |
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| 17:28.01 | unixman | 2020 is not that far off actually. Better plan ahead. ;) |
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| 17:34.45 | coyote | unixman, in 2020 windows will die |
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| 17:38.31 | jaromil | well, microsoft has been making so many profits that I'm afraid they can bail out the death of any OS they do and feed us with zombies |
| 17:38.43 | unixman | Other than your assertion here, coyote, where is that predicted? |
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| 17:39.17 | coyote | unixman, windows 7 will not be supported after 2020 |
| 17:39.27 | coyote | windows 7 is the last usable windows |
| 17:39.45 | jaromil | well, meanwhile windows 10 uses you |
| 17:39.52 | jaromil | maybe people get used to getting used |
| 17:41.52 | jaromil | btw this was in the installer of windows 8 "use People!" https://www.instagram.com/p/0u82dom0xy/ |
| 17:42.08 | unixman | coyote, so, Dell / HP / Lenovo / (MostOtherPCSellers) will stop selling systems with Microsoft preloaded because Windows 7 is dead? I don't see that happening. |
| 17:42.35 | coyote | unixman, it's hard to support 11-year system |
| 17:42.43 | coyote | xp will be 18 aged |
| 17:42.54 | coyote | and i think it'll be alive |
| 17:43.17 | coyote | Windows 98SE is the best |
| 17:44.11 | enyc | hehe |
| 17:45.43 | unixman | coyote, you miss my point. As long as vendors sell PC systems with a Microsoft OS preloaded, people, who do not care one bit about the things you and I care about, will buy them off the shelf. "Windows" will not be dead in 2020 unless there is a reason for vendors to not preload a Microsoft OS. |
| 17:46.12 | coyote | is it possible to make immortal OS... |
| 17:46.33 | coyote | unixman, not for people, for me |
| 17:47.27 | unixman | Oh, in that case, Windows has been "dead" for me for many years. Since ... hmmm ... about 1998. :) |
| 17:48.15 | coyote | i didn't really used windows for long |
| 17:48.51 | coyote | when i was 1-class-schoolcoyote, i used an old computer on Windows XP for games for 1 year |
| 17:49.12 | coyote | and on my first notebook windows 7 worked only for 3 years |
| 17:49.20 | coyote | now everywhere i use only linux |
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| 17:50.43 | jaromil | well welcome to the club. from loving where you are to thinking all the rest of the world will disappear.... there is a lot of wishful thinking :^) happyness is that we do have a space where to be ourselves |
| 17:52.17 | coyote | i wanna haiku-os |
| 17:56.42 | unixman | So, do it. :) |
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| 18:01.33 | gnarface | i'm confused, haiku is already an os |
| 18:01.54 | gnarface | https://www.haiku-os.org/ |
| 18:02.17 | coyote | yes |
| 18:02.17 | gnarface | (community fork of BeOS) |
| 18:02.21 | coyote | and it works |
| 18:02.26 | coyote | i used it in virtualbox |
| 18:03.46 | freem | Hello. I have an annoying issue in Devuan ascii with xbacklight: it says that no outputs have backlight property, but I can achieve the same result by echoing as root some values in /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight. Is there is a way to avoid being root to control that? |
| 18:05.08 | freem | oh, I forgot to mention, I have this issue on 4.14 kernel (backport), but I think it also happens on the 4.9 one |
| 18:06.49 | *** join/#devuan metax (~metax@gateway/tor-sasl/metax) |
| 18:08.24 | gnarface | freem: do you have to change it alot, or is it sufficient to set it once at boot? |
| 18:08.38 | freem | it depends on the light around :) |
| 18:09.12 | gnarface | freem: the startup scripts run as root. you could just add the command to /etc/rc.local and that would work around the problem unless you had to change it again |
| 18:11.36 | freem | To be honest, this is not a problem when I do not move with my computer, but when I do (by train, for example) then it becomes quite annoying to not be able to control that with the XF86MonBrightness[Up/Down] keys |
| 18:12.16 | freem | this is why I asked if someone would know a way to fix that, maybe it is something on my configuration |
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| 18:13.18 | freem | I still have the option of running a netcat as root that just echoes in that file, but that would be quite ugly. |
| 18:16.48 | gnarface | freem: well i can think of a few ways to hack around it, but perhaps you're just missing a package? |
| 18:17.19 | gnarface | freem: some brands of laptops need you to run a daemon for those controls. then the daemon can run as root so you don't have to. |
| 18:18.43 | gnarface | of course, if there isn't one for yours, it would be easy to just make a binary that's suid root you can run yourself as anyone, or setup sudo for it, or numerous other variations on one of those approaches... but it begs the question "why hasn't anyone done this already?" often the answer is that someone in fact has |
| 18:18.55 | freem | well... if I lack a package, I can't find which one. Also, AFAIK, on void linux this works well with xbacklight, and I don't remind having seen a special dependency in aptitude |
| 18:19.29 | gnarface | does void linux use systemd? |
| 18:19.32 | freem | yep, I can easily build that kind of things myself, but I'm sure there *is* something :) |
| 18:19.46 | freem | gnarface: nope. They use runit. |
| 18:20.07 | gnarface | what groups are you in currently? |
| 18:20.30 | n4dir | i think void linux uses runit init system |
| 18:20.42 | n4dir | duh, too late. sorry |
| 18:20.56 | freem | runit, musl, libressl. Pretty cool things, but I really like to know my packages won't have new features and bugs randomly, and aptitude'curses interface is quite useful too. |
| 18:21.16 | freem | gnarface: my groups: <user> tty cdrom audio video staff games input |
| 18:21.31 | gnarface | hmmm, should be right |
| 18:21.41 | gnarface | laptop brand? |
| 18:22.22 | freem | I'm not really sure it have a special brand... if I understand the term correctly. |
| 18:22.55 | gnarface | well some toshibas and dells for example need special non-stock userspace utils |
| 18:22.57 | gnarface | and kernel support |
| 18:23.13 | gnarface | tuff that may have been installed for you automatically on void linux (though i don't know) |
| 18:23.18 | gnarface | stuff* |
| 18:23.50 | gnarface | the kernel support should be in the stock kernel but the modules may not automatically load unless you tell them to |
| 18:24.11 | gnarface | and the packages should be in the official repos, but probably in contrib or non-free |
| 18:24.32 | freem | maybe. |
| 18:24.57 | gnarface | also, what window manager are you using? |
| 18:25.03 | freem | there is no GPU inside that computer, only an intel chip, i5 |
| 18:25.14 | freem | i3 4.13 |
| 18:25.48 | gnarface | e17 for example has built-in support for a bunch of hardware buttons like brightness/sleep/volume etc |
| 18:26.27 | gnarface | also it is no longer the default that Xorg run suid root, so that could be screwing with you, too |
| 18:27.04 | freem | true |
| 18:27.40 | gnarface | you're sure you're actually loading the intel driver for xorg, right? |
| 18:27.46 | freem | but I used the xorg-legacy package, so I would suppose this would not be a problem: Xorg is running as root. |
| 18:27.59 | freem | I think. How can I check? |
| 18:28.07 | gnarface | the Xorg.0.log should say |
| 18:28.34 | gnarface | if you're running xorg suid root, it should be in /var/log, but if not it goes in ~/.local/share/xorg (i think) |
| 18:29.33 | gnarface | you wouldn't be the first person to come in here who was getting weird permissions errors because Xorg loaded some old unmaintained generic framebuffer driver instead of the intel one |
| 18:30.15 | gnarface | you say there's "no gpu" but i assume by that you mean just that you're using the onboard i915 gpu |
| 18:30.32 | freem | yep, it's in /var/log, I'm trying to get the info on graphic module loaded |
| 18:30.42 | freem | yes, that's what I meant |
| 18:30.52 | gnarface | pay special attention to lines with "(EE)" on them |
| 18:30.55 | freem | there is no gpu, only the i5's chipset |
| 18:31.16 | gnarface | well, it's still a GPU, it's just integrated |
| 18:32.00 | freem | well, no error line except for fbdev, vesa, and a ton a dbus ones. TODO: hunt the thing that wants to use dbus that much and kill it. |
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| 18:34.49 | gnarface | freem: looks like you've got the same basic issue zyliwax had yesterday then |
| 18:35.06 | freem | those lines seems to say that graphics works: https://framabin.org/?5d230dcddf866da2#/trXNrpW6Xz5+cThKDQbLlhJviFAIcXEc/Uz2N6bDTI= |
| 18:35.09 | gnarface | zyliwax: any chance you could pastebin that "4-line" xorg.conf |
| 18:35.12 | gnarface | ? |
| 18:35.32 | gnarface | freem: lemme guess... it succeeds on loading vesa, never mentions the intel driver? |
| 18:36.42 | freem | nope, it fails loading vesa (no module found... and.... huh... I may have found the answer, it seems I have no xserver-xorg-video package installed at all...sounds strange |
| 18:37.36 | freem | how can I have graphics working without such packages... I don't remember having installed a package from source |
| 18:38.41 | freem | also, 3D acceleration works pretty well, does not sounds likely without somehting installed |
| 18:41.29 | freem | from what I understand, Xorg loads the graphic driver from the kernel (kms) and generates a display section, somewhere. |
| 18:42.26 | freem | if so, I guess the solution might be to find that file, copy it, add it some informations for backlight, and restart Xorg, but where might that file be? |
| 18:50.09 | KatolaZ | freem: ? |
| 18:50.14 | KatolaZ | freem: what is the problem? |
| 18:53.23 | gnarface | KatolaZ: his original problem was that xbacklight works in void linux but not devuan. but he can still control the backlight directly as root by echoing to /sys/class/backlight/intel_backlight |
| 18:54.11 | gnarface | KatolaZ: my diagnosis was that it must be missing the intel driver or at least just not loading it. how he could have video without *any* drivers is a mystery to me... |
| 18:54.18 | freem | Also, the xbacklight application works on void linux. I can't remember if it worked on devuan before ascii. |
| 18:54.39 | KatolaZ | freem: never used xbacklight |
| 18:54.47 | KatolaZ | I have a script called by acpid |
| 18:54.58 | KatolaZ | linked to events on Fn+something |
| 18:55.21 | freem | I have to admit I never played with acpid |
| 18:55.30 | KatolaZ | it's super-easy mate |
| 18:56.02 | KatolaZ | just choose which buttons you want to use to control brightness |
| 18:56.12 | KatolaZ | using acpi_listen |
| 18:56.16 | freem | Well, if it is, I would be glad to take some pointers to start things with. I suppose it would make me less dependent to Xorg, right? |
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| 18:56.41 | KatolaZ | freem: I should put this stuff somewhere, indeed |
| 18:56.47 | KatolaZ | this is a good opportunity, mayne |
| 18:56.52 | KatolaZ | ~maybe |
| 18:57.10 | KatolaZ | I will put a bit of doc online if you agree to act as a beta tester :) |
| 18:57.19 | KatolaZ | freem: would you? |
| 18:57.29 | freem | sure |
| 18:57.36 | KatolaZ | (you'll see it's super-easy, but maybe other people will find it useful as well) |
| 18:57.52 | KatolaZ | ok then |
| 18:57.54 | KatolaZ | let's do it |
| 18:58.04 | freem | this won't be as painful as searching how to retrieve a pid from an unix socket, I hope |
| 18:58.58 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 18:59.16 | blop | :( kernel/built-in.o scripts/package/Makefile:86: recipe for target 'deb-pkg' failed make: *** [deb-pkg] Error 2 |
| 18:59.19 | blop | this is new to me |
| 18:59.45 | freem | blop: it's all there is to the error? |
| 18:59.58 | blop | Makefile:1345: recipe for target 'deb-pkg' failed |
| 19:00.19 | blop | i'll look at 1345 |
| 19:00.36 | KatolaZ | freem: http://kalos.mine.nu/bright/ |
| 19:00.39 | KatolaZ | I am writing there |
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| 19:00.52 | blop | Makefile:1345: recipe for target 'deb-pkg' failed |
| 19:00.55 | blop | oops |
| 19:01.02 | freem | KatolaZ, ok |
| 19:01.05 | blop | %pkg: include/config/kernel.release FORCE |
| 19:01.05 | blop | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:01.59 | freem | blop: that simple line shows why I really hate makefiles. |
| 19:02.34 | blop | i guess i could echo those variables maybe |
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| 19:03.33 | blop | can't be a perms issue, am root |
| 19:03.45 | freem | KatolaZ: if this solution does not even rely on X11, saying explicitely that it will work without Wayland or X11 (aka, on TTYs) could be of some uses) |
| 19:04.00 | KatolaZ | freem: sure |
| 19:04.09 | sag3 | exit |
| 19:04.13 | sag3 | sorry :D |
| 19:04.17 | sag3 | mistake |
| 19:04.48 | blop | ah found it |
| 19:10.13 | blop | do i need X509_CERTIFICATE_PARSER to do webstuff or can openssl do it in userspace? don't care about speed. sorry if ottopic. |
| 19:10.34 | zyliwax | gnarface: late is better than never right? https://dpaste.de/A03f/raw |
| 19:10.44 | gnarface | zyliwax: heh, yea, thanks |
| 19:11.37 | freem | zyliwax, looking at it, thanks |
| 19:11.43 | zyliwax | gnarface: my pleasure, just got back to my keyboard and saw the highlight |
| 19:11.48 | zyliwax | freem: good luck! |
| 19:12.38 | freem | sounds like I'll need it, but maybe KatolaZ's solution will be easier to put in place and have less pre-requisites |
| 19:12.40 | gnarface | freem: even if KatolaZ acpid fixup works, it might benefit some things to be using intel's driver |
| 19:12.57 | gnarface | freem: (opengl performance most notably) |
| 19:13.24 | freem | on the other hand, I do have opengl working, I could not play mordheim or redeclipse otherwise |
| 19:13.52 | freem | (even if mordheim only works through wine) |
| 19:14.01 | gnarface | well, with mesa installed, it should always "work" - even if only in software rendering mode. |
| 19:14.22 | gnarface | the question is more about framerate capacity |
| 19:14.35 | freem | I had problems with the software rendering mode, I think it's why I moved to ascii. |
| 19:15.19 | gnarface | it can vary a lot depending on the content |
| 19:16.16 | freem | gnarface: this is what mordheim looks like: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=mordheim-cityofthedamned&t=vivaldi&iax=images&ia=images&iai=http%3A%2F%2Fi1-news.softpedia-static.com%2Fimages%2Fnews2%2Fmordheim-city-of-the-damned-review-496600-25.jpg |
| 19:16.51 | gnarface | oh, looks pretty complex |
| 19:16.58 | freem | and on the technical point of view, it is **not** optimized correctly, AFAIK |
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| 19:17.32 | freem | I don't know a lot about GL stuff, but enough to programming to notice that kind of things :) |
| 19:17.48 | freem | so, I think my hardware is working correctly, now |
| 19:18.15 | gnarface | benchmarks? |
| 19:18.42 | gnarface | they say not to use glxgears for benchmarking, but it's an easy way to see if direct rendering is really working |
| 19:18.56 | blop | fixed it |
| 19:20.16 | freem | gnarface: no, but I can't imagine a CPU doing all that work, especially considering I didn't took a beast (because, I knew it would not be that useful to me) |
| 19:20.47 | freem | gnarface, glxgears always works, even with software rendering. |
| 19:20.56 | blop | with rss-glx screensaver 'lattice' you can increase depth -D to high values to burden your GLX |
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| 19:22.02 | freem | usually, I simply ask to glxinfo and try to guess what things means :) |
| 19:22.47 | freem | things like: direct rendering, accelerated, for example |
| 19:23.09 | freem | Oh, I remember why I removed xorg-.*-intel drivers now |
| 19:23.36 | gnarface | i just unlock vsync on glxgears and look at the framerate. below 2000; software rendering. above 25,000; hardware rendering |
| 19:23.39 | freem | they actually were forcing Xorg to use gallium, which is... just not ready, and result in software rendering |
| 19:24.02 | gnarface | really?? |
| 19:24.05 | gnarface | interesting... |
| 19:24.16 | freem | gnarface, how do you disable vsync on gears? |
| 19:24.33 | gnarface | freem: i'm using nvidia so it's different for me. |
| 19:24.33 | freem | well, at least, it's my interpretation of why things where that damn slow |
| 19:24.49 | blop | my glxgears doesn't allow disabling vsync |
| 19:24.52 | freem | of course it is. By curiosity: nouveau or nvidia? |
| 19:25.07 | gnarface | vblank_mode=0 glxgears |
| 19:25.12 | blop | oh ty |
| 19:25.39 | gnarface | glxgears doesn't get to choose. it inherits the value from mesa for you guys. vblank_mode should be honored for any opengl program *by your driver* |
| 19:26.01 | gnarface | (for nvidia proprietary the equivalent is __GL_SYNC_TO_VBLANK=0) |
| 19:26.23 | blop | it's a bit slower on the pi3 :) |
| 19:27.15 | freem | thanks for info gnarface |
| 19:27.22 | gnarface | freem: i vaguely recall running into forum posts about some conflict with dri2 vs dri3 on different bits of hardware that all use that intel driver. there might be some other way for you to get the intel driver to stop sabotaging direct rendering |
| 19:27.45 | freem | I'm a little under 2000 on a i5 CPU, I think it's good enough but... |
| 19:28.01 | gnarface | it didn't seem like it was all well understood due to various subtle differences in chips sold with the same names |
| 19:30.05 | freem | ok. But, to be honest, for now I consider that this computer works well enough: it does not have a true GPU, and the CPU is not a high-end one |
| 19:30.22 | gnarface | alright, well if you're happy that's good. |
| 19:30.29 | freem | I bought it to do some programming, and eventually some low polly models |
| 19:30.49 | freem | for now, there are more important things that does not work :) |
| 19:30.51 | gnarface | just know there *might* be a way to squeeze a little more opengl performance out of it... it might not be worth the trouble though, i admit. |
| 19:31.27 | freem | the problem is that, from my knowlegde, all the 3D stuff is pretty messy, and even people specialized in it does not seems to really understand everything |
| 19:32.15 | gnarface | yea, there are few people who understand the differences between Nvidia's implementation and Mesa well enough to support both equally |
| 19:32.20 | freem | so, considering that I don't even know how to recompile a kernel by understanding options, and am pretty new to opengl programming, I don't think I could fix that kind of problems easily |
| 19:32.50 | freem | At least, NVidia *does* provide a good support for linux users. |
| 19:33.15 | freem | I have an amd gpu at work, and... huh... my screens change their names randomly. |
| 19:33.24 | gnarface | *most* commercial games on linux only really support Nvidia |
| 19:33.38 | gnarface | though that's starting to slowly change now that Intel and AMD have both been cooperating on MESA |
| 19:33.44 | freem | which result in me having to regularly switch lines in my conf files |
| 19:34.45 | freem | I doubt intel can compete for "serious gaming" |
| 19:35.12 | gnarface | you're right, it can't, but they did improve their linux performance a lot this last year |
| 19:35.36 | freem | pretty good news |
| 19:37.08 | freem | but to be honest, I think having something which works is the minimum. Intel have reached it, even if perfs are not terrible. AMD did not. |
| 19:37.37 | freem | until that new job, I had only rumors, but now I'm experimenting them myself :) |
| 19:37.43 | gnarface | well... in some places AMD did, their per-hardware support is a lot less uniform |
| 19:38.22 | gnarface | AMD is trying hard too now, but they're mostly only focused on their new hardware |
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| 19:38.52 | freem | From my point of view, the simple fact that NVidia provides a driver good enough to be packaged by Debian (and so, devuan I guess, I didn't checked) in non-free. I did not noticed one amd? |
| 19:39.26 | freem | oops... I meant, the simple fact [...] is a huge difference |
| 19:40.06 | gnarface | i'm not sure about amd's non-free version (AMDGPU-PRO) but the regular open source one is definitely in the repos now |
| 19:40.21 | gnarface | maybe just not in jessie |
| 19:40.29 | gnarface | i'm running ceres over here |
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| 19:40.44 | gnarface | and you're right it's nice they package nvidia drivers for it, but frankly they break frequently |
| 19:41.10 | freem | yes, but it is quite buggy on the GPU I have at work, which is less than 6 months old. I did not tried the blob |
| 19:41.35 | gnarface | one of those RX 480's? |
| 19:41.47 | gnarface | oh, but on jessie? |
| 19:41.55 | freem | Really? I had a desktop with NVidia stuff, and I can remember any problem with the package, in Debian stable/testing |
| 19:42.05 | gnarface | yea, you know what your problem is, the stable version of mesa is ancient |
| 19:42.19 | gnarface | there is one in backports that's better behaved |
| 19:42.27 | freem | yes, I use Debian's Jessie and Stretch at work. It's work, I don't wan't to play :) |
| 19:42.47 | gnarface | the mesa currently in jessie is from *before* most of the newly funded developments by Intel and AMD |
| 19:42.47 | freem | hum... |
| 19:42.55 | gnarface | i think it's 10.x or 12.x? |
| 19:43.05 | gnarface | you want the 17.x from backports (and at least kernel 4.9) |
| 19:43.14 | freem | I moved the computer to stable recently, so, Stretch |
| 19:43.26 | gnarface | oh, i couldn't say then |
| 19:43.32 | freem | and, quite interesting, the bacported kernel just does not run :) |
| 19:43.38 | gnarface | really? |
| 19:43.40 | gnarface | huh |
| 19:43.50 | gnarface | i wonder what that's about |
| 19:44.49 | freem | yep, on Debian Stretch, at work, the backported kernel freezes because it seems it can't find root filesystem. Also, usually, I would have had access to the tty, but even if I can see there is a shell, I can't use it: keyboard does nothing. |
| 19:45.12 | freem | Not enough time to investigate it from now. Maybe it's sysV related. |
| 19:45.19 | gnarface | damn |
| 19:45.35 | gnarface | sounds like a driver problem, if it can't find the root fs |
| 19:45.51 | gnarface | maybe just the initrd.img failed to generate right or something |
| 19:46.02 | freem | I mean, I do not use systemd, even at work (it makes things so slower...) so maybe it's related to something not loaded as usual by pid 1. Would be sttrange, but I've seen enough. |
| 19:46.25 | freem | but then, keyboard would reply, or dpkg fail |
| 19:46.49 | gnarface | well, missing fstab, or basic permissions are common pitfalls when switching from systemd, but that shouldn't affect the kernel's ability to mount / |
| 19:47.09 | freem | but no, I have to use the power button to shutdown and select the classic kernel on boot |
| 19:47.25 | gnarface | that definitely sounds like a bug worth reporting |
| 19:47.33 | freem | missing fstab? It is here, otherwise the older would not boot either |
| 19:48.04 | gnarface | that might be true, but with the latest kernels i think it is supposed to be able to at least mount / even without a fstab |
| 19:48.06 | freem | I would like to have time to spend on it, too |
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| 19:48.15 | KatolaZ | freem: half-way through |
| 19:48.19 | KatolaZ | bear with me |
| 19:48.20 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 19:48.44 | freem | I'm still looking from time to time, KatolaZ, I'm simply putting remarks on a file, to not bother you :) |
| 19:49.13 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 19:50.33 | freem | KatolaZ, so far, I have: ~ 1 Root rights mandatory? |
| 19:50.33 | freem | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:50.47 | KatolaZ | freem: ? |
| 19:50.53 | KatolaZ | service might not be available |
| 19:50.54 | freem | oups, forgot to :nonu before copy. Those are my remarks |
| 19:50.56 | KatolaZ | ps is always there |
| 19:50.59 | freem | true |
| 19:51.22 | KatolaZ | no root right anywhere, except for installing packages |
| 19:51.50 | freem | nice. WIll be a nice argument over X11. |
| 19:54.09 | freem | gnarface, I think it's not really the fstab that indicates the / partition anyway, since that info is provided by boot manager (grub, lilo or in my case syslinux) |
| 19:54.47 | gnarface | well it won't hurt if it's in there |
| 19:54.51 | gnarface | it *used to* be required |
| 19:55.01 | gnarface | maybe not for a long time now though, i'm not sure |
| 19:55.59 | freem | I think it is mandatory, but for moving from the initramfs to the real kernel, maybe? |
| 19:56.35 | freem | there are things in boot process I still do not understand. Especially about the point of having an image which then load the real stuff... |
| 19:57.14 | gnarface | oh, initramfs may change stuff, yea |
| 19:57.51 | freem | someday I would like to be able to boot without any initramfs, just for the knowledge I would earn |
| 19:58.01 | gnarface | the only point of the initramfs is to have some place to load critical drivers like networking and filesystem support from without having to compile them statically into the kernel |
| 19:58.30 | gnarface | you can definitely do without it if you build your own kernel |
| 19:58.35 | freem | I'm not sure I like this approach |
| 19:58.41 | KatolaZ | freem: if you compile the relevant modules in the kernel, you don't need an initramfs |
| 19:58.45 | freem | I mean, r |
| 19:58.57 | freem | the initramfs approach. |
| 19:59.18 | freem | sure, but understanding kernel compilation is still on my todo list :) |
| 19:59.39 | KatolaZ | freem: there is little to understand there |
| 19:59.41 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 19:59.46 | KatolaZ | compiling is quite straightforward |
| 19:59.49 | KatolaZ | and automatic |
| 20:00.05 | KatolaZ | not forgetting to include something is not as simple |
| 20:00.07 | freem | but writing a tool lazier than aptitude but able to install packages for any distro is higher on my TODO list than compiling kernels |
| 20:00.20 | freem | yeah, that's the point, KatolaZ. |
| 20:00.23 | KatolaZ | freem: there are already such tools |
| 20:00.28 | freem | Really? |
| 20:01.08 | freem | You mean, a tool with an interactive interface that does not try to resolve conflicts but still signals them? |
| 20:01.21 | freem | And able to work with any package system? |
| 20:02.04 | freem | Hum... In interactive, I do *not* include printf/scanf way. |
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| 20:03.24 | freem | I am really, really interested by the name of those tools, KatolaZ. Especially if they can run through ssh. |
| 20:05.45 | freem | I'd be quite happy to find such a tool, even if it does need graphics, |
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| 20:17.16 | devvuan | Please help. How do I restart DHCP? |
| 20:18.24 | gnarface | depends on which dhcp you installed |
| 20:18.41 | gnarface | but it's usually something similar to: /etc/init.d/dhcpcd restart |
| 20:19.44 | devvuan | how do I install dhcpcd? apt-get install won't work |
| 20:20.23 | gnarface | did you never have any of them installed? |
| 20:20.46 | gnarface | there are more than one but none are named "dhcpcd" literally |
| 20:21.01 | gnarface | i like isc-dhcp-client |
| 20:21.18 | gnarface | you could also try dhcpcd5 |
| 20:21.42 | gnarface | there are a few others |
| 20:21.49 | devvuan | Just looked. I have isc-dhcpcd-server . |
| 20:21.51 | devvuan | thanks. |
| 20:21.54 | gnarface | try searches like: apt-cache search dhcp.*client |
| 20:22.13 | gnarface | oh ok, no problem |
| 20:22.32 | gnarface | if you already have one installed the init script will probably show up with: ls -l /etc/init.d/*dhc* |
| 20:22.33 | zyliwax | yeah i use dhcpcd from the dhcpcd5 package |
| 20:23.01 | zyliwax | it's a nice choice if you need a dhcp client |
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| 20:24.27 | devvuan | Cool. So how do i restart isc-dhcpcd-server? |
| 20:25.01 | gnarface | ok one more time, run this: ls -l /etc/init.d/*dhc* |
| 20:25.07 | devvuan | nvm i see your reply |
| 20:25.16 | devvuan | thanks |
| 20:25.30 | gnarface | if it doesn't show up, let me know. i didn't memorize the name of the script and i haven't actually used it in years |
| 20:25.45 | devvuan | it shows up at /etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server |
| 20:25.56 | gnarface | ok, that's the server though |
| 20:26.05 | gnarface | do you also have an isc-dhcp-client? |
| 20:26.23 | gnarface | you *probably* only actually want one or the other of those |
| 20:26.30 | devvuan | i'm making a router/server for reference |
| 20:26.51 | gnarface | oh, then you might need both, but i'll have to assume you'd know whether that is the case or not |
| 20:26.52 | devvuan | a router of sorts on a pi |
| 20:27.24 | gnarface | sorry i guess i assumed when you asked about DHCP you meant the client, not the server |
| 20:27.30 | gnarface | but the instructions should be the same for either |
| 20:27.37 | gnarface | at least, the part about how to restart it |
| 20:27.46 | gnarface | that's general for pretty much any system service |
| 20:28.06 | devvuan | I'm still clueless about how to restart it |
| 20:28.17 | devvuan | do i execute the file in /etc/init.d/ ? |
| 20:28.22 | freem | maybe it is actually running? |
| 20:28.48 | freem | could you send us a copy/paste on pastebin (for example) of the command "ps aux" ? |
| 20:29.50 | devvuan | Got it! /etc/init.d/isc-dhcp-server is an executable. I simplye run ./etc/.../isc-dhcpd-server and give the argument of 'restart'. Thanks all! |
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| 20:32.33 | gnarface | devvuan: yea, sorry on the slow response, you got it. those are all just shell scripts in there. if you know a little BASH you can just open them with a text editor to see what they're actually doing. |
| 20:33.27 | gnarface | devvuan: they should *all* at minimum support at least [stop] and [start] but most also support [restart] and a few support other stuff like [status] |
| 20:36.21 | zyliwax | i'm a little confused whether there is an official way to "enable" a service? i've worked with systemd and openrc which both have this feature |
| 20:36.40 | zyliwax | (say no to systemd, kids) |
| 20:37.33 | gnarface | this version of sysvinit supports LSB headers, which are documented on the debian wiki, but still supports the old style /etc/rc?.d/ symlinks as an override mechanism |
| 20:38.26 | gnarface | everything you install should be enabled by default though |
| 20:38.50 | gnarface | you probably won't need to mess with it unless you want to *disable* something |
| 20:38.57 | freem | AFAIK, sysVinit services can be started and stopped with /etc/init.d/<service_name> [start|stop] at least, as gnarface said, but there is also a service command that often does the job. I'm not qualified enough to say always, but I mean it. |
| 20:40.10 | gnarface | freem: yea, i think that "service" script is from redhat. it's basically just a cheesy wrapper so you don't have to type the "/etc/init.d" part, but it's in the devuan repo too. i don't know what depends on it so i rarely bother assuming it is present. it doesn't always get installed. |
| 20:40.54 | gnarface | also i forget what the package name for it is... |
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| 20:41.28 | gnarface | ah, on ceres anyway it's in the package called "init-system-helpers" |
| 20:41.31 | freem | gnarface, I have to say I do not really know that many distros, but I've almost always seen service in Debian, and when I started seeing it, it was present for every service |
| 20:41.49 | devvuan | How do I 'list units' a la systemctl? |
| 20:42.09 | gnarface | freem: it might be missing from minimal or debootstrapped installs) |
| 20:42.11 | freem | isn't units a systemd's term? |
| 20:42.30 | gnarface | devvuan: what does it do? |
| 20:42.30 | enyc | freem: probably is, i hope devvuan is basicalyl saying 'whats the equivalent' |
| 20:42.35 | devvuan | I'm trying to see if I have a DHCP server running alraedy |
| 20:42.48 | gnarface | devvuan: ps aux --forest |
| 20:42.48 | freem | gnarface: I tend to remove everything I don't see the point, and can't remember breaking that. Maybe the package is marked as essential? |
| 20:42.50 | devvuan | or anything DHCP related running |
| 20:42.52 | KatolaZ | devvuan: |
| 20:43.17 | KatolaZ | netstat -ltun |
| 20:43.31 | gnarface | freem: yea, my copy is, here, but i can't say whether that was always the case |
| 20:43.32 | KatolaZ | or maybe |
| 20:43.36 | KatolaZ | netstat -ltu |
| 20:44.00 | KatolaZ | (-n shows port numbers instead than "guessed" services) |
| 20:44.36 | KatolaZ | devvuan: ^^^ |
| 20:45.04 | freem | gnarface, I'm an humble dev, and only on Debian and alike systems since maybe 6 years, I can't say |
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| 20:45.58 | freem | I even learned only that week that processes can pass file descriptors through sockets.... |
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| 20:46.54 | freem | it's good to have reminders that there are still so many things to learn :) |
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| 20:57.58 | gnarface | ah yes, i don't know much about unix sockets except that they're awesome |
| 20:58.04 | gnarface | lately i've been having fun with fifos |
| 20:58.55 | gnarface | (which if you don't know are a really neat sort of thing that is like a file and a pipe at once) |
| 20:59.17 | freem | in a way, sockets are fifos, but full duplex :) |
| 20:59.26 | gnarface | that makes sense |
| 21:00.17 | freem | playing with af_unix sockets a lot those times, to avoid relying on hard to maintain multi-threading |
| 21:00.54 | freem | this provides better perfs than IP sockets, which is good enough for my application |
| 21:01.46 | freem | and I was quite astonished while reading the manpages that you can even pass a file descriptor from a process to another through sockets |
| 21:02.48 | freem | I must admit I have never played with FIFOs other that sockets for IPCs |
| 21:04.56 | freem | just in case that might interest you: this link seems to be quite nice for learning socket stuff (http://alas.matf.bg.ac.rs/manuals/lspe/snode=152.html). I've only read the part on credentials and file descriptors, since it was the only part that interested me |
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| 21:13.03 | KatolaZ | freem: |
| 21:13.08 | KatolaZ | should be done |
| 21:13.10 | freem | KatolaZ, there is a quick (for someone with a disconnected brain) that the file /etc/acpi/events/lenovo-brightup must exists |
| 21:13.12 | KatolaZ | http://kalos.mine.nu/bright/ |
| 21:13.27 | KatolaZ | freem: please read the last version |
| 21:13.37 | freem | :) |
| 21:14.02 | freem | I was writing when you mention it was finished :) |
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| 21:16.11 | freem | KatolaZ, also, why do you append to ${BRIGHT_FILE}? It is probably not important, but I'm curious |
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| 21:16.25 | KatolaZ | freem: ? |
| 21:16.28 | KatolaZ | in the script? |
| 21:16.29 | KatolaZ | well |
| 21:16.31 | freem | yes |
| 21:16.41 | KatolaZ | it doesn't really matter whether you append or write |
| 21:16.43 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 21:16.46 | KatolaZ | it's not a real file |
| 21:17.16 | freem | also, the script is executed by acpid, right? |
| 21:17.26 | KatolaZ | yep |
| 21:18.20 | freem | and acpid is running as root? So, why chmod 755 and not 700? Not important too, but one might question the unneeded rights for all users |
| 21:18.45 | KatolaZ | freem: all the scripts in /etc/acpi are 755 |
| 21:18.47 | KatolaZ | that's why |
| 21:18.52 | KatolaZ | "consistency" :) |
| 21:18.58 | freem | ok ok :) |
| 21:19.08 | KatolaZ | freem: even if you run it as a user |
| 21:19.13 | KatolaZ | you can't write on /sys |
| 21:19.21 | KatolaZ | only root can |
| 21:19.29 | freem | yep, that's why I said "not important too" |
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| 21:23.46 | freem | KatolaZ: ok, I think it covers all the questions I might have, except, that the script's does not always exists |
| 21:24.09 | freem | If I'm not wrong, all files are executed? In which order? |
| 21:24.26 | KatolaZ | which script?!? |
| 21:24.44 | KatolaZ | events files are not executed |
| 21:24.46 | freem | Suppose that more than one file have a hook on the same event, how does acpid behave? |
| 21:24.53 | freem | oh |
| 21:24.59 | freem | sorry, true, |
| 21:25.36 | freem | still, the event might be already registered in a file |
| 21:26.17 | freem | but it's a good explanation for me, anyway, I can understand quickly how to do things, and I have the pointers to understand and learn more, thanks a lot |
| 21:27.14 | KatolaZ | freem: I think all of them are executed, one after the other |
| 21:27.22 | KatolaZ | I think the order is unspecified |
| 21:27.36 | freem | ok |
| 21:28.00 | KatolaZ | I had to put that stuff online since long |
| 21:28.00 | freem | then, to avoid problems, maybe advise doing a grep to ensure that the event is not already listened to? |
| 21:28.41 | freem | I mean, it depends who is the target. For someone like me, it will be obvious, but I no longer consider myself a pure beginner :) |
| 21:29.15 | KatolaZ | freem: yep |
| 21:29.26 | KatolaZ | btw, gotta go |
| 21:29.29 | KatolaZ | bbl, maybe |
| 21:29.30 | KatolaZ | o/ |
| 21:29.36 | freem | good night then, and thanks again |
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| 22:50.15 | Vall | Hello everyone, I'm in a bit of a pickle and could use some (hardware-related) help. I know this is not the right channel, so please if you don't know the answer, please point me in the right direction, OK? |
| 22:50.57 | Vall | The question: could a *normal* (ie, standard 1.5V voltage) DDR3 memory module be used in a motherboard that specifies 1.35V low-voltage modules? |
| 22:51.46 | gnarface | are you sure the connectors are even the same? |
| 22:51.50 | Vall | To be more specific, the motherboard is an Intel S1200V3RPL and the memory is a Samsung M391B1G73BH0-CK0 |
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| 22:52.24 | Vall | gnarface (presuming you are talking to me): yes, the (DIMM memory-module) connectors are exactly the same. |
| 22:52.58 | gnarface | ok, yes |
| 22:53.08 | gnarface | i mean yes, i was talking to you |
| 22:53.12 | gnarface | i don't know if the ram will work |
| 22:53.25 | gnarface | it should be safe to try, since you're going *down* in voltage |
| 22:53.30 | gnarface | might even work |
| 22:53.31 | Vall | nope |
| 22:53.45 | freem | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:53.52 | Vall | from the point of view of the mobo, I'm going *up* |
| 22:54.04 | Vall | Do you think it could damage the mobo? |
| 22:54.08 | gnarface | no |
| 22:54.11 | Vall | (not too worried about the modules) |
| 22:54.26 | gnarface | i don't think it will damage either in this case, but it simply might not be able to post the ram |
| 22:54.28 | freem | vall: the ram can support more than the motherboard can provide, so this imho should be safe for hard |
| 22:54.51 | gnarface | Vall: did you check the bios? usually they actually support a range of voltages |
| 22:54.59 | Vall | I researched and it seems the Skylake processors could be damaged by using non-LV RAM: https://www.kitguru.net/components/motherboard/anton-shilov/intel-prolonged-usage-of-ddr3-memory-at-default-voltages-can-damage-skylake/ |
| 22:55.08 | gnarface | Vall: you might be able to specify 1.5v in the bios |
| 22:55.14 | freem | I agree with gnarface: I think the highest risk will be crashes, so a crash test should infirm or confirm that |
| 22:55.20 | Vall | But the processor I'm using is Haswell, not skylake, and so is the mobo. |
| 22:55.59 | gnarface | Vall: well that's the first i've heard of it, but i guess i haven't tried it myself so there's that |
| 22:56.13 | Vall | freem, gnarface: many thanks, you folks lifted a weight from my shoulders. |
| 22:56.36 | Vall | I will proceed, and after the machine is running, will do a throughout burnin test |
| 22:56.44 | gnarface | Vall: do check the bios first |
| 22:57.00 | Vall | OK, but I can't check the BIOS without booting the machine with that RAM ;-) |
| 22:57.06 | gnarface | Vall: if it actually has a way to specify the voltage, you'll have better stability setting it to the right value |
| 22:57.13 | gnarface | oh i see, that's your only ram |
| 22:57.14 | Vall | Should be safe at least to enter BIOS, right? |
| 22:57.25 | freem | vall: yes, double or tripple check my informations, do not take them for truth |
| 22:57.49 | Vall | OK, but the consensus is that the mobo should not be damaged, right? |
| 22:57.56 | freem | it's more opinion from someone with an old electronic skill than real info |
| 22:58.07 | Vall | At worst the RAM will be unstable? |
| 22:58.27 | freem | nothing should be damaged imho, because RAM can support higher voltage than what mobo can provide |
| 22:58.43 | Vall | The fact is that the RAM *needs* more voltage |
| 22:58.46 | freem | but you didn't mentioned frequencies |
| 22:58.52 | Vall | It won't work with less voltae |
| 22:58.54 | freem | exact, to function properly |
| 22:58.54 | Vall | *voltage |
| 22:59.11 | freem | so, if you don't use too much, it might work |
| 22:59.15 | Vall | The LV RAM works both with more *and* with less voltage |
| 22:59.19 | Vall | OK. |
| 22:59.22 | Vall | Going ahead them |
| 22:59.32 | Vall | thanks again for your 2-cents, freem and gnarface. |
| 22:59.36 | Vall | I will check the BIOS. |
| 22:59.54 | freem | remember that we are speaking about dynamic RAM, which means cells need to be refreshed regularly |
| 23:00.12 | freem | I am unsure about how the mobos optimize that |
| 23:01.10 | Vall | OK |
| 23:04.12 | gnarface | Vall: no problem. i think the thing is that the voltage regulator should take care of that in general... two things to keep in mind though; 1) going in the other direction, running ram at higher voltage than rated, will damage it, and 2) the ram will make more heat, so you need to make sure your cooling is sufficient... perhaps this is the real cause of the damage reported in that article you linked? (i didn't |
| 23:04.12 | gnarface | actually read it) |
| 23:05.09 | gnarface | people do specifically undervolt ram when they're trying to save a little power/cooling effort |
| 23:06.00 | gnarface | i guess depending on how it runs at 1.35 there might be an argument for running it somewhere between that and 1.5, if the bios allows it |
| 23:06.11 | gnarface | i mean |
| 23:06.16 | gnarface | corrupting your install is a real possibility |
| 23:06.20 | freem | gnarface, the problem is not only about voltage, but generally about power consomption. And, power is not P=UI but depends on frequency |
| 23:06.42 | Vall | The memory is ECC, so if things go south, I expect to get ECC errors and not silent corruption |
| 23:06.55 | Vall | The only thing I can't afford is for the RAM to damage the board |
| 23:07.18 | gnarface | well, is it too late to return it and get something known to work? |
| 23:07.44 | gnarface | the motherboard manual should list a few dozen approved models, specifically |
| 23:07.58 | gnarface | though usually it's only a small subset of what will actually work |
| 23:09.32 | Vall | the motherboard manual says to check the Intel THOL (Tested Hardware Options List) online |
| 23:09.35 | Vall | it's here: |
| 23:09.43 | freem | Vall: if you *can not affort at all* to damage, do not take the risk |
| 23:10.24 | Vall | https://serverconfigurator.intel.com/exalt/MyPartsServlet?iMethodID=4&dataset=IntelTHOL&basefilters=column1_IN_S1200V3RPS_AND_column3_IN_None&bypass=y |
| 23:10.39 | freem | just in case, run your mobo diskless, so that there is no risk at all to loose data (in theory, there is no risk, but theory and real world are different things) |
| 23:10.46 | Vall | freem: the problem is, I'm outside the US and getting the exact memory would take 2-3 weeks |
| 23:11.01 | Vall | would completely f*ck-up my schedule |
| 23:11.18 | gnarface | Vall: another option i've often used is to "just buy whatever the crucial.com web tool recommends for that model" |
| 23:11.28 | gnarface | maybe crucial can ship to you quicker? |
| 23:11.41 | freem | what is crucial? |
| 23:11.46 | Vall | I ve checked and this memory is exactly identical to another one indicated in the THOL, *but* for the LV bit |
| 23:11.52 | freem | I mean, is crucial.com a real website? |
| 23:12.00 | gnarface | yea i guess they're like an OEM |
| 23:12.04 | Vall | gnarface: no go, minimum shipping is 2 weeks or more |
| 23:12.36 | Vall | I'm going ahead with this RAM, since the consensus is that there *should* be no hardware damage, specially no mobo damage. |
| 23:12.53 | Vall | the responsibility is mine, but I thank you all for your input, my friends |
| 23:12.57 | Vall | bows |
| 23:12.59 | gnarface | i would say unless there's some known weakness in the voltage regulator... |
| 23:13.09 | gnarface | good luck |
| 23:13.18 | Vall | bows |
| 23:13.24 | Vall | please pray for my soul |
| 23:13.26 | Vall | waves |
| 23:13.29 | *** part/#devuan Dwarf (~Dwarf@unaffiliated/dwarf) |
| 23:13.32 | gnarface | most likely all that will happen is the POST message will say there's no ram found |
| 23:13.49 | freem | I trust my electronics notions from 10 years ago... I hope. |
| 23:13.55 | freem | yeah |
| 23:14.17 | freem | but still, I don't like playing with high frequency hardware |
| 23:14.43 | freem | well, I do like *playing* but he is not :) |
| 23:15.44 | freem | if ram does not receive enough power, I think either the capacitors will be randomly charged, or it will not be detected at all |
| 23:16.27 | specing | crucial is a front for micron |
| 23:21.23 | freem | specing, what is micron? |
| 23:21.40 | freem | I'm sorry, I don't know a lot about US stores :) |
| 23:22.09 | gnarface | well they make chips |
| 23:22.13 | gnarface | i guess mostly ram and flash |
| 23:22.40 | gnarface | maybe for brands other than crucial too, i don't know |
| 23:23.30 | freem | ok, it's a shop that tends to deliver quickly in the US? |
| 23:23.56 | gnarface | well, quicker than 2 weeks |
| 23:24.27 | gnarface | but i also had the notion he could go on there and get the serial # for the recommended ram and maybe just buy it at a local shop |
| 23:24.34 | gnarface | which i guess works fine here but maybe not where he is |
| 23:30.22 | freem | ok, thanks for the info. I'll remember the reference now, it may become useful, even if I don't live in america :) |
| 23:30.29 | *** join/#devuan zone_twelve (~eshafer@unaffiliated/zone-twelve/x-8788851) |
| 23:30.31 | freem | knowledge can always be. |
| 23:32.56 | *** join/#devuan mns` (~Devuan@177.13.50.194) |
| 23:41.52 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.231.114.2) |
| 23:44.01 | *** join/#devuan greenjeans (~greenjean@104.240.30.30) |
| 23:44.25 | greenjeans | Happy Imbolc friends! |
| 23:44.53 | freem | what's imbolc? |
| 23:45.05 | greenjeans | New Vuu-do up just now: https://sourceforge.net/projects/vuu-do/ |
| 23:45.33 | greenjeans | Imbolc is an old pagan holiday dedicated to the goddess Brigit |
| 23:47.06 | Xenguy | merry Imbolc greenjeans |
| 23:52.52 | *** join/#devuan IoFran (~Thunderbi@200.68.140.8) |
