| 00:00.14 | KatolaZ | well, it's not difficult to find out ;) |
| 00:01.37 | TomTheDragon | Oh? I'm curious if there's a way to do an apt-cache (or similar) query to pull all packages for a given profile (like "sbuild") |
| 00:01.42 | TomTheDragon | or just base system |
| 00:01.52 | TomTheDragon | specifically source package |
| 00:02.00 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: 52K are the binary packages |
| 00:02.03 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 00:02.10 | KatolaZ | binary-all are about 24K |
| 00:02.42 | KatolaZ | so in total you get something like 76K |
| 00:02.47 | TomTheDragon | yeah |
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| 00:08.00 | TomTheDragon | is there a way of finding the actual sources list for base system? |
| 00:09.38 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: what do you mean? |
| 00:09.44 | KatolaZ | define "base system" |
| 00:11.47 | TomTheDragon | like a debootstrap variant of minbase, or buildd, etc |
| 00:13.14 | KatolaZ | oh |
| 00:13.36 | KatolaZ | you just select all the packages with priority "Standard" or "Essential" or "Important" i guess |
| 00:15.47 | TomTheDragon | will try that... trying to build 52K packages before I even know my gcc modification works, is kind of painful to think about |
| 00:16.32 | KatolaZ | sorry TomTheDragon |
| 00:16.38 | KatolaZ | it's "Required" and "Important" |
| 00:16.47 | KatolaZ | "Standard" gets you something more, actually |
| 00:16.57 | TomTheDragon | Oh |
| 00:16.59 | KatolaZ | but still, that's what you would get on a base install |
| 00:17.05 | KatolaZ | + "Standard Systems Utilities" |
| 00:17.10 | TomTheDragon | Looked at what minbase is and I don't want that... no init system. |
| 00:17.14 | KatolaZ | (just checked in tasksel's source) |
| 00:17.19 | TomTheDragon | I see |
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| 00:25.22 | TomTheDragon | Aha, aptitude search ~prequired ~pimportant -F%e will do it |
| 00:25.43 | TomTheDragon | Did not know there was a way to customize how the packages were displayed, and one of the options is the source pkg |
| 00:27.21 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: you can also just grep the packages files in /var/lib/apt/.... |
| 00:27.22 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 00:28.03 | KatolaZ | grep -E "^Priority: *(required|important|standard)" |
| 00:28.13 | KatolaZ | should almost do the trick |
| 00:28.22 | KatolaZ | maybe with -C 10 |
| 00:28.23 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 00:28.28 | TomTheDragon | yeah... and then have to look up the source packages for them all. |
| 00:29.02 | TomTheDragon | 71 pkgs seems a bit small though. |
| 00:29.08 | TomTheDragon | for required and important |
| 00:29.29 | TomTheDragon | I guess coreutils contains most of the stuff |
| 00:31.15 | KatolaZ | I got 109, tbh |
| 00:33.22 | KatolaZ | with 'standard' you get around 190 |
| 00:33.38 | TomTheDragon | Hmm, well this is debian itself right now. |
| 00:34.14 | gnarface | how much space? shouldn't be much less than 480MB installed for amd64 i think |
| 00:34.53 | gnarface | if you're looking at an amd64 install of less than 300MB you're definitely missing stuff that is supposed to be there, even in a minimal install |
| 00:36.00 | TomTheDragon | With no kernel/modules yet, mind you. |
| 00:36.46 | gnarface | well that's... two more packages |
| 00:37.00 | TomTheDragon | those are some of the bigger ones. |
| 00:37.03 | gnarface | true |
| 00:39.21 | TomTheDragon | Just realized I'll need to rework my ksh "fake bootstrap" to fixup certain packages' rules files. Is there a way of telling sbuild to patch a rules file? Or will I have to manually "apt-get source pkgname" and patch the like that, then run sbuild? |
| 00:39.46 | TomTheDragon | The latter is what I did for my manual compile of gcc, but I don't want to have to keep doing that. |
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| 00:39.59 | gnarface | has never heard of sbuild |
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| 00:41.09 | TomTheDragon | gnarface: it's debian's utility for building a package in clean environment |
| 00:41.44 | gnarface | ah hmmm |
| 00:41.55 | gnarface | i've just been using dpkg-buildpackage |
| 00:42.34 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: why not gbp pbuilder? |
| 00:43.45 | gnarface | TomTheDragon: a while back though, i did go looking for an easy way to "gentoo" a debian system; basically a 1-line command that would download, rebuild, and install all the source packages at once with some trivial compilation flag change (-O3 instead of -O2 or something) but i never found one. ended up just rebuilding one package and calling it a day. if you come up with something easy for this, i'd sure like to know |
| 00:43.45 | gnarface | about it |
| 00:44.14 | TomTheDragon | gnarface: yeah, pretty much what I am trying to do |
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| 00:50.07 | gnarface | the general feedback i got from #debian on the matter was that gentoo wouldn't exist if it wasn't easier to just make a whole new distro from scratch than to do that to debian |
| 00:50.07 | TomTheDragon | gnarface: except it's actually -march=i586 but that's not enough... the "default arch" of gcc bleeds through a lot. |
| 00:50.18 | TomTheDragon | yeah, pretty much |
| 00:50.51 | TomTheDragon | KatolaZ: I found documentation for sbuild a little clearer |
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| 01:18.37 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 01:24.38 | blop | so #hase game is running a bit slow |
| 01:24.47 | blop | ly |
| 01:25.32 | blop | it is rotating a fairly big bitmap in real time but that can be done pretty fast with two shifts |
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| 02:53.14 | TomTheDragon | gnarface: eventually I'll have some crazy hacked together mess built from ksh, perl, and sqlite |
| 02:58.14 | Criggie | sounds production quality to me! |
| 03:03.12 | TomTheDragon | Criggie: then again, Arch is just a bunch of makefiles pretty much. |
| 03:05.02 | Criggie | yeah - I mean all OSs are just bytes on disk. |
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| 09:41.21 | topro | hi there, anyone using sddm/kde on devuan ascii? I'm having a hard time to figure out how to get shutdown/reboot options for kde users back working again after upgrading from devuan jessie to ascii |
| 09:42.17 | fsmithred | topro, did you install elogind? |
| 09:42.21 | topro | tried lots of polkit rules (login1 which is obviously not in use, but also consolekit) nothing helped me out |
| 09:42.52 | topro | fsmithred: no, didn't know about that |
| 09:43.01 | topro | let me have a look |
| 09:43.08 | fsmithred | it's in experimental and ascii-proposed |
| 09:43.30 | fsmithred | what repo you using? auto.mirror or pkgmaster? |
| 09:43.36 | topro | auto.mirror |
| 09:44.24 | fsmithred | change auto.mirror.devuan.org to pkgmaster.devuan.org |
| 09:44.42 | topro | in sources list i just saw that for some reason i deactivated ascii-proposed for some reason, just can'T remember why :/ |
| 09:44.58 | fsmithred | oh, good |
| 09:45.05 | topro | won't I get it through auto.mirror? |
| 09:45.07 | fsmithred | I was looking for the line to paste it |
| 09:45.19 | fsmithred | yeah, you can, but pkgmaster updates more often |
| 09:45.39 | fsmithred | you can leave it for now, just uncomment that line |
| 09:46.03 | topro | I read about pkgmaster before. will it eventually take over auto.mirror? i think its amprolla3 driven, right? |
| 09:46.11 | fsmithred | yes |
| 09:46.14 | fsmithred | to both |
| 09:46.40 | fsmithred | debs.devuan.org will replace auto.mirror |
| 09:46.55 | fsmithred | and select a nearby mirror for you |
| 09:47.31 | topro | there still is no package called elogind :/ |
| 09:47.37 | fsmithred | apt-get update |
| 09:47.57 | topro | did so |
| 09:48.08 | fsmithred | oh, then change it to pkgmaster |
| 09:48.32 | topro | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/merged ascii-proposed-updates main contrib non-free |
| 09:48.58 | topro | thats what I have. i also have ascii-updates which IMHO should have more than proposed-updates or am I wrong? |
| 09:48.58 | fsmithred | deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/devuan ascii-proposed main |
| 09:49.12 | topro | ahh, I see |
| 09:49.37 | topro | but there also is a ascii-proposed-updates. is that correct/intended to have both? |
| 09:49.57 | fsmithred | yeah, I guess so |
| 09:50.11 | fsmithred | I have it, and I don't get errors on update |
| 09:50.24 | fsmithred | but elogind is in ascii-proposed |
| 09:50.31 | topro | 404 on ascii-proposed, will try pkgmaster |
| 09:50.35 | fsmithred | and experimental |
| 09:50.53 | fsmithred | deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged/ experimental main |
| 09:51.03 | fsmithred | note that it's /devuan not /merged |
| 09:51.20 | fsmithred | on ascii-proposed |
| 09:51.27 | topro | when to use /devuan and when to use /merged. don't get it |
| 09:51.43 | fsmithred | the /devuan will pull stuff that's only in devuan |
| 09:52.02 | fsmithred | the /merged merges devuan with debian (and filters out the stuff we don't want) |
| 09:52.37 | fsmithred | I haven't figured out a way to remember it all, so I just look at my sources.list |
| 09:53.10 | fsmithred | any luck? |
| 09:53.12 | topro | so from my understanding it should work with /merged. or is there simply no /merged for ascii-proposed as in contrast to ascii-proposed-updates there is no such thing in debian? |
| 09:54.00 | fsmithred | wait, which one does debian not have? |
| 09:54.10 | topro | yes, got elogind. will sddm/kdm use it automatically instead of consolekit on next boot or is there some manual intervention needed? |
| 09:54.43 | fsmithred | not sure. I added kde5 on ascii and got elogind automatically. |
| 09:54.52 | topro | I think ascii-proposed (which would be stretch-proposed) is not there in debian. ascii-proposed-updates (which would be stretch-proposed-updates) is in debian |
| 09:55.03 | fsmithred | only intervention was when slim asked if I wanted to use sddm or slim |
| 09:55.15 | fsmithred | thanks |
| 09:55.48 | fsmithred | that corresponds with what I have here: a-p-u is merged, a-p is devuan |
| 09:56.37 | topro | ok, so a-p is a devuan-only thing I suppose |
| 09:57.04 | fsmithred | yes |
| 09:57.24 | fsmithred | and I'm firing up my kde to see what I've got |
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| 09:59.04 | topro | I checked dependencies. elogind is required by a libpam-elogind plugin, which in turn provides libpam-systemd which in turn is also provided by consolekit |
| 09:59.40 | topro | so I think I would have to remove consolekit an in turn install libpam-elogind, which pulls elogind |
| 09:59.56 | topro | and then pam should do the glue |
| 09:59.58 | topro | I'll see... |
| 10:00.25 | topro | might be offline due to some testing logging in/out/reboot |
| 10:00.42 | topro | for the time being... thank you! |
| 10:01.30 | KatolaZ | topro: the elogind + consolekit + policykit stuff in ascii is under heavy testing |
| 10:01.47 | KatolaZ | you might want to have a look at the latest posts of Irwhann on devuan-dev |
| 10:02.31 | topro | KatolaZ: mailing list? I'll hve a look. thank you |
| 10:02.39 | KatolaZ | it's publicly archived btw |
| 10:02.47 | fsmithred | I still have consolekit installed with elogind |
| 10:03.01 | KatolaZ | topro: https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/list/devuan-dev.en.html |
| 10:03.21 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: it depends which version you have |
| 10:03.29 | fsmithred | oh |
| 10:03.36 | fsmithred | mine is over a week old |
| 10:03.37 | KatolaZ | the version in experimental provides libpam-systemd, IIRC |
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| 10:04.41 | topro | the one in ascii-proposed which I just installed provides libpam-systemd as well. its 234.4-1+devuan1 |
| 10:05.06 | fsmithred | that's the version I have, and I got it from same place |
| 10:05.11 | topro | but removin consolekit doesn't look like a good idea right now, would remove too many needed packeges from kde |
| 10:05.44 | topro | would even remove policykit |
| 10:05.52 | KatolaZ | guys I have no idea |
| 10:05.55 | topro | so I will leave it installed in parallel |
| 10:05.56 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 10:06.09 | fsmithred | yeah, they seem happy on my system |
| 10:06.23 | KatolaZ | those seem to me just an avoidable clusterfuck, TBH :) |
| 10:06.31 | fsmithred | all the logout options work, lock screen works (and especially unlocking it works) |
| 10:06.42 | KatolaZ | (and an easily avoidable one, for that matter :P) |
| 10:08.45 | topro | unlock and lockout is working here just with consolekit. shutdown and reboot are missing. will now test what elogind can do for me. just have no idea if I have to give any configruation to sddm/kde to actually use it or if just providing that libpam-elogind will do the job |
| 10:09.25 | topro | bb, will do some login/logout/reboot testing |
| 10:10.06 | fsmithred | let us know |
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| 10:10.46 | topro | btw I even got usb stick mountig working before by providing a polkit udisks rule. just shutdown wont work. I'll let you know... cu |
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| 10:16.35 | topro | re |
| 10:16.39 | topro | want to know? :D |
| 10:17.29 | topro | so the only thing I did was installing libpam-elogind which pulled elogind. after reboot and login now I got shutdown and reboot actions in KDE |
| 10:17.34 | topro | yaaay |
| 10:18.02 | topro | I think I should tell Irrwahn... |
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| 10:22.08 | Irrwahn | topro: Just got highlighted, but only skimmed over the discussion so far. Please be aware (as KatolaZ already mentioned) that the whole elogind/policykit/consolekit stuff is still highly experimental. |
| 10:22.19 | Irrwahn | I would argue against using it in production. |
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| 10:22.53 | topro | I got that. What would you think could be the wost thing happening? |
| 10:23.05 | Irrwahn | For example, there is no version of policykit yet, which allows to remove consolekit in favor of elogind. |
| 10:23.06 | topro | ig elogind fails |
| 10:23.21 | topro | s/ig/if/ |
| 10:23.38 | Irrwahn | Hard to tell. If I am to have a guess, you might lose session management completely. |
| 10:23.52 | Irrwahn | However, you should always be able to restore it |
| 10:24.15 | Irrwahn | to some degree by going back to classic consolekit/polcykit combo |
| 10:24.44 | Irrwahn | It wouldn't render a system unbootable, if that's a concern. |
| 10:25.00 | topro | Irrwahn, I saw that removing consolekit while having libpam-elogind would remove too many packages. But for the moment it seems I can live with it. Will try with brave users ;) won't blame you... |
| 10:25.51 | topro | Have been using CephFS in production since bobtail version (if that rings a bell) so I'm used to some degree of pain |
| 10:25.55 | Irrwahn | topro: right, that is because policykit still depends hard on consolekit, so removing the latter will take half your system with it (exaggerating a bit) |
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| 10:26.51 | Irrwahn | Never run across cephfs, so no sorry, no. BNut pain I can relate to. ;-) |
| 10:26.55 | Irrwahn | -N |
| 10:27.00 | topro | I'll do some testing on a couple of machines, will let you know if anything arises. Btw. thank you for all the effort |
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| 10:27.59 | Irrwahn | I'm just a guinea pig, aka tester, too. The really hard work is done by the coders and package maintainers! :) |
| 10:28.40 | KatolaZ | topro: please report anything (good or bad) to Irrwahn, or to devuan-dev |
| 10:28.48 | KatolaZ | topro: any help with testing is much appreciated |
| 10:28.49 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 10:28.59 | topro | don't unserestimate the value of testing. I'll be off for lunch (and some more rebooting)... bb |
| 10:29.08 | topro | KatolaZ: I will |
| 10:29.12 | Irrwahn | I'd prefer devuan-dev, because you'll get a wider audience immediately. |
| 10:31.27 | Irrwahn | Hm. elogind making the rounds could turn out great, could lead to disaster as well. Well, as long as we clearly point out it being experimental we should be fine. |
| 10:33.24 | Irrwahn | KatolaZ: Just read your daily update on ddev, good to see you're making progress on fixing the crystal shop! ;-) |
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| 11:45.15 | topro | Irrwahn: seems we're not there yet. while I do get shutdown/reboot actions in kde now with elogind installed, when using them it won't actually shut down, only log out. |
| 11:45.20 | topro | nothing in syslog or dmesg |
| 11:45.29 | topro | any idea on how to debug? |
| 11:46.22 | Irrwahn | topro: di you actually activate elogind and deactivate consolekit with pam-auth-update? |
| 11:46.35 | Irrwahn | *did |
| 11:47.04 | Irrwahn | the current elogind package does not auto-activate, AFAIK |
| 11:47.20 | topro | despite installing libpam-elogind I did not do any configuration. how to check? |
| 11:47.40 | Irrwahn | run pam-auth-update as root |
| 11:48.04 | topro | I just did while you were typing. quite self-explainig :) |
| 11:48.12 | topro | I will do another test.. bb |
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| 12:15.55 | topro | Irrwahn: nope. activated elogind, tested, failed; additionally deactivated consolekit, tested, failed. whenever I use shutdown action from kde session, i will drop to sddm login screen. interresting is that sometimes (not always) shutdown button in sddm login screen then works |
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| 12:16.38 | Irrwahn | topro: Ah, your're using sddm. Your results are consistent with what I noticed in a quick test. |
| 12:16.52 | topro | at least then ;) |
| 12:17.02 | Irrwahn | topro: I replaced sddm with lightdm and got everything working, FWIW. |
| 12:17.02 | topro | so no hope for me today? |
| 12:17.25 | Irrwahn | sddm seems to be paticularly picky, somehow. |
| 12:17.45 | Irrwahn | Other DMs work (slim, sddm, xdm, ...). |
| 12:17.57 | Irrwahn | argh not sdd, lightdm of course |
| 12:18.23 | topro | well, i used lightdm during early ascii days when it was totally broken in devuan. yet looks so 90'-ish |
| 12:18.37 | Irrwahn | However, if you insist on sddm, I'm afraid I cannot be of help, until the issue is investigated and fixed. |
| 12:19.08 | Irrwahn | Well ... how long do you stare on the login screen? (not meant to offend you, mind you.) ;o) |
| 12:19.22 | topro | never mind. I very much appreciate. I'll have a look at lightdm. Is it somehow customizable to not make it look like amiga 500? |
| 12:19.59 | Irrwahn | topro: IFAIK it's fully themeable. the greeter, that is, i.e. the thing you actually look at. :) |
| 12:20.44 | topro | its not me, but I have to keep users happy. and such nuances contributes to the overall feel of a workplace |
| 12:20.45 | amarsh04 | is still using an old lxdm from Debian |
| 12:21.11 | Irrwahn | topro: I see, that is a different matter then. |
| 12:21.49 | Irrwahn | ISTR I once did a really fancy themed lightdm-greeter setup with custom input fields etc. Somehow lost it along the wayy, though. |
| 12:23.27 | Irrwahn | Plus, there are a lot of configuration options in /etc/lightdm config files. |
| 12:23.40 | topro | i'll have a look |
| 12:23.42 | topro | bb |
| 12:24.07 | Irrwahn | It even allows for a display setup script, a feature I still use on may machine to handle my messy screen setup. |
| 12:24.26 | Irrwahn | Hmm, fast quitter. ^.^ |
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| 12:28.39 | topro | Irrwahn: yes, lightdm does the trick! |
| 12:28.48 | Irrwahn | topro: Great! |
| 12:29.50 | topro | thank you for your help. I'll stick with it for the moment. If something else appears during my testing I'll keep you updated! |
| 12:30.15 | Irrwahn | topro: you're welcome, and please do! :) |
| 12:32.29 | KatolaZ | topro: also success should be reported mate ;) |
| 12:32.58 | KatolaZ | (it helps dealing with the many other cases when we fail) |
| 12:33.00 | KatolaZ | ;) |
| 12:33.01 | topro | KatolaZ: thats what I just did, isn't it? ;) |
| 12:33.41 | KatolaZ | yep :) |
| 12:41.14 | FlibberTGibbet | please can anyone recommend a decent (affordable!) vps provider where I can host devuan? tearing my hair out trying to get letsencrypt working in AWS lightsail in deb 8 :( |
| 12:41.27 | FlibberTGibbet | hopefully in europe... |
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| 12:57.15 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: ? |
| 12:57.28 | KatolaZ | what do you mean by "i can host devuan"? |
| 12:58.50 | FlibberTGibbet | sorry. meant "i can RUN devuan" |
| 13:01.41 | FlibberTGibbet | just bit the bullet and paid for linode vps -- they have devuan jessie in their iso library so it should (!) be much like my home server/s |
| 13:05.07 | KatolaZ | great |
| 13:05.12 | KatolaZ | I have used digitalocean |
| 13:05.17 | KatolaZ | they have debian jessie |
| 13:05.23 | KatolaZ | dunno if they offer devuan now |
| 13:05.25 | KatolaZ | maybe yes |
| 13:05.34 | KatolaZ | but I went through the obvious upgrade path |
| 13:05.59 | FlibberTGibbet | indeed, had forgotten that upgrades from debian were that straightforward |
| 13:06.35 | FlibberTGibbet | install is asking about sofware selection -- shouldn't really need the desktop environment? |
| 13:09.08 | blinkdog | On a VPS? Probably not, unless you already had plans to remote into X for some reason |
| 13:09.15 | FlibberTGibbet | not in the least |
| 13:09.34 | FlibberTGibbet | the webserver as installed by tasksel -- is it apache? |
| 13:09.37 | KatolaZ | FlibberTGibbet: I guess datacenterlight offers devuan |
| 13:09.53 | FlibberTGibbet | ah, i'd forgotten their name. thanks KatolaZ |
| 13:10.20 | FlibberTGibbet | actually told a lie earlier -- had selected vultr rather than linode, so it's vultr who have devuan in their iso library |
| 13:10.32 | FlibberTGibbet | signed up so fast i wasn't really paying attention :) |
| 13:13.19 | FlibberTGibbet | ah, it's rebooted from install and working nicely :) |
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| 14:52.19 | blop | libexpat1-dev : Depends : libexpat1 (= 2.2.0-2+deb9u1) but 2.2.1-1 is to be installed. // libexpat is already the newest version (2.2.1-1) |
| 14:52.23 | blop | ascii amd64 |
| 14:53.16 | blop | i'm going to learn how to deal with these, i promise. how do i fix? |
| 14:54.49 | blop | ping me if you reply please, multitasking |
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| 15:09.32 | fsmithred | blop: apt-get install libexpat1=2.2.0-2+deb9u1 libexpat1-dev=2.2.0-2+deb9u1 |
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| 15:11.04 | blop | aha so i can generally force the version that depends: tells me to install |
| 15:11.06 | fsmithred | and in case you missed it, here's the list with the rest of the screwed-up packages on your system: http://termbin.com/ca4h |
| 15:11.12 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 15:11.20 | fsmithred | it will ask you to confirm a downgrade |
| 15:11.55 | blop | oh that's fairly short |
| 15:12.19 | blop | today i figure out why alsa/sound broken |
| 15:14.06 | fsmithred | why? |
| 15:14.21 | blop | so i can get sounds |
| 15:14.33 | fsmithred | lol, how was it broken? |
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| 15:14.42 | fsmithred | *in what way* |
| 15:14.42 | blop | i don't know, never worked |
| 15:14.51 | fsmithred | oh, future tense |
| 15:14.52 | fsmithred | got it |
| 15:14.54 | fsmithred | good luck |
| 15:15.07 | fsmithred | I broke my sound by trying firefox-57 |
| 15:15.14 | blop | hah |
| 15:15.26 | blop | i have snd module loaded |
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| 15:16.01 | fsmithred | if you have more than one device, the wrong one might be first |
| 15:16.06 | fsmithred | aplay -l |
| 15:16.24 | fsmithred | will list them. |
| 15:16.58 | blop | yes i'm getting the list |
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| 15:21.56 | blop | ok fixed |
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| 15:22.37 | fsmithred | sound fixed? |
| 15:22.41 | blop | yes |
| 15:22.45 | fsmithred | what did you do? |
| 15:22.56 | fsmithred | nobody fixes alsa that fast |
| 15:23.00 | blop | made /etc/asound.conf to make card 1 default |
| 15:23.06 | fsmithred | ok |
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| 15:24.15 | blop | thanks for the list btw |
| 15:24.40 | fsmithred | yw |
| 15:25.03 | fsmithred | I took that iso down so nobody else gets into the same trouble |
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| 15:32.04 | blop | now to get opengl running on the Vega 8 gpu |
| 15:32.12 | blop | this is not a devuan issue |
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| 15:33.33 | clebig | hi |
| 15:34.02 | blop | o/ |
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| 15:53.46 | blop | i might need to build the amd-staging kenrel for newest amdgpu support |
| 15:54.13 | blop | fsmithred: can you share your kernel config? it seems to be good otherwise here |
| 15:54.50 | fsmithred | hang on a minute - I just installed 4.14 and it just rebooted |
| 15:55.43 | blop | bleeding edge laptop, bleeding blop :) |
| 15:57.36 | fsmithred | http://termbin.com/dp3j |
| 15:57.54 | blop | ty |
| 16:03.17 | blop | will be helpful |
| 16:03.29 | blop | <Han Solo> Here goes nuthin. |
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| 16:29.01 | blop | The bulk of the new code addition in Linux 4.15 is due to AMDGPU DC finally having been merged. |
| 16:29.01 | blop | This new display stack for the AMDGPU DRM driver added more than 130k lines of code |
| 16:29.43 | blop | so yeah 4.15 is needed for this lappy |
| 16:30.53 | blop | https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux-415-features&num=1 |
| 16:31.52 | fsmithred | 4.15 isn't in backports yet |
| 16:32.15 | fsmithred | you want the link to debian kernel compile howto? |
| 16:32.24 | blop | yes pls |
| 16:32.37 | fsmithred | 1 min |
| 16:34.17 | KatolaZ | blop: just 'make deb-pkg' |
| 16:35.01 | KatolaZ | blop: imperial college press |
| 16:35.04 | KatolaZ | sorry |
| 16:35.07 | KatolaZ | bad paste |
| 16:35.08 | KatolaZ | :D |
| 16:35.15 | KatolaZ | blop: https://debian-handbook.info/browse/stable/sect.kernel-compilation.html |
| 16:36.06 | blop | yes a package would be very nice |
| 16:36.12 | blop | ty |
| 16:37.06 | fsmithred | http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=36525 |
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| 18:27.08 | ServiceRobot | hello everyone! just wanted to say I got devuan up and running with very few hiccups! my LEMP setup working together nicely |
| 18:27.47 | gnarface | claps excitedly |
| 18:27.58 | ServiceRobot | >_> |
| 18:28.09 | gnarface | that wasn't sarcastic! |
| 18:28.16 | ServiceRobot | mhmmmm |
| 18:28.53 | ServiceRobot | mind you, there are a few things that make the devuan experience a bit restrictive, but I beat that into the ground already on the forum |
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| 18:30.57 | gnarface | well, it probably seems like manual permissions management is a lot more primitive |
| 18:31.06 | gnarface | but it teaches you critical security skills that way |
| 18:31.25 | ServiceRobot | manual permissions? only thing I really needed to change was web server files |
| 18:34.10 | golinux | ServiceRobot: That is good news! |
| 18:34.53 | ServiceRobot | but like I said, I still have a few problems, but it's more of a personal matter than a bug or something missing |
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| 18:35.36 | ServiceRobot | I decided to just say "screw it" for now and stick with sysvinit. I assume multiple init functionality will improve after the ascii release or something like that |
| 18:35.48 | golinux | It takes a while to personalize a new setup |
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| 18:36.18 | ServiceRobot | I've tried several different distros, and personalizing an init is a no go most of the time |
| 18:36.36 | ServiceRobot | you either stick with what they give you, or have fun with an unbootable system |
| 18:37.40 | golinux | The init situation will change as more users test other options and figure out a way to do it. |
| 18:38.16 | golinux | Did you ever read Steve Litt's stuff on inits? |
| 18:38.23 | ServiceRobot | yeah, it feels like I jumped into the linux scene on the verge of systemd takeover. the whole community feels split |
| 18:38.27 | ServiceRobot | ya, I read it |
| 18:38.32 | golinux | And was it at all helpful. |
| 18:38.58 | ServiceRobot | sure, but it won't solve the problems I have with devuan until more packages are added and the dependencies are less twisted |
| 18:39.01 | golinux | What about the supervision list? |
| 18:39.38 | ServiceRobot | don't think I read that part? |
| 18:40.12 | golinux | http://skarnet.org/lists/ |
| 18:40.27 | golinux | The supervision list discusses inits |
| 18:40.41 | ServiceRobot | but I've experimented with devuan for a while. sysvinit is deeply integrated with many packages. a lot of packages include their own /etc/init.d scripts |
| 18:40.54 | golinux | You might want to poke around the archives |
| 18:40.56 | ServiceRobot | not much I can do about it |
| 18:41.25 | golinux | You could add alternate options to those packages |
| 18:41.45 | golinux | If that's possible |
| 18:41.50 | ServiceRobot | I was thinking of patching the packages myself, or hosting a repo with void's runit. |
| 18:42.13 | ServiceRobot | obviously it would be modified to fit devuan |
| 18:42.13 | golinux | Is there a way to port that to Devuan? |
| 18:42.24 | ServiceRobot | yes, I got it working under devuan by manually compiling it |
| 18:42.28 | golinux | That sounds like a useful project |
| 18:42.50 | ServiceRobot | if you read my dev1galaxy post, I gave some detail into the problem |
| 18:42.58 | golinux | If you get the ball rolling, I bet others would jump onboard |
| 18:43.07 | golinux | I read it and forgot it. |
| 18:43.12 | ServiceRobot | you may be right about that. heh |
| 18:43.44 | golinux | I have to keep track of a lot of stuff. No room for it all to stick. |
| 18:44.13 | ServiceRobot | that I can understand. you guys are going against one of the most popular distros |
| 18:44.34 | ServiceRobot | I'm impressed at how easy it was to setup everything though |
| 18:44.51 | ServiceRobot | I did a debootstrap install. I don't think I missed anything |
| 18:45.09 | golinux | We're serious about providing a quality option. |
| 18:45.52 | golinux | I need a break. Nice that I caught you. Haven't seen you in a while. |
| 18:46.00 | golinux | bbl |
| 18:46.06 | ServiceRobot | right now, 2 big issues I have: init-system-helpers and sysvinit and runit being too closely tied. I thought of some ways to fix it |
| 18:47.01 | ServiceRobot | host modified packages that remove the need for init-system-helpers, and void's runit along with services ported over from void inside their own packages |
| 18:47.15 | ServiceRobot | that I would obviously need to handle myself for now |
| 18:48.35 | ServiceRobot | one other issue is, if I do succeed in my endeaver, there's still the issue of /etc/init.d being cluttered with scripts that wouldn't even be used |
| 18:49.00 | ServiceRobot | then I would need to repackage everything that includes an initscript. |
| 18:49.18 | ServiceRobot | a bit overkill, but I like going all the way |
| 18:49.43 | ServiceRobot | anyway, glad we talked. keep up the good work! |
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| 19:39.51 | topro | hi there, got an issue with network interface naming. first devuan kernels began naming interfaces like enpXsY to get rid of /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules a wile ago which was just fine, but recent kernels stopped doing so using ethX again, and I cannot get the persistent rules working again to get stable end reliable ethX naming |
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| 19:42.26 | topro | how can I eiter activate enpXsY or get persistent mac address based assignemt back working? |
| 19:46.32 | gnarface | topro: it's just a kernel command-line parameter to change the device naming mode |
| 19:47.01 | topro | gnarface: do you know which one that would be? |
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| 19:48.18 | gnarface | topro: stackexchange suggests "net.ifnames=1 biosdevname=1" |
| 19:48.47 | topro | i just found the first one, will try with both, thank you |
| 19:49.04 | gnarface | i'm pretty sure that if you know enough about udev rule customization you can get mac-address based device name assignment with either naming convention |
| 19:49.29 | topro | well, then ... ;) |
| 19:51.24 | gnarface | sorry, i don't know udev rule customization well enough to give you anything more specific than that |
| 19:51.42 | gnarface | but if you've got a steam controller i can help with the rules for that no problem :) |
| 19:52.53 | topro | :) nevermind, I'll first try the kernel parameters |
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| 19:59.07 | topro | gnarface: no, sticks to (wrong order) ethX naming |
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| 19:59.56 | topro | I got quite some devuan clients and all of them show this exact behaviour when upgrading to ascii |
| 20:00.20 | topro | did I mention ascii before? |
| 20:01.30 | gnarface | not since i've been paying attention |
| 20:01.35 | topro | sorry |
| 20:01.57 | gnarface | it doesn't matter in this case; you're describing expected behavior |
| 20:02.10 | gnarface | i just don't remember how to put it back |
| 20:02.36 | gnarface | (most of us had legacy configurations that depended on the old style so we only noticed when it changed the first time) |
| 20:03.42 | topro | I would not mind having enpXsY but I just don't why it stopped doing so as I think this is default behaviour in nowadays kernels |
| 20:04.35 | gnarface | what problem did you have with the persistent rules file? |
| 20:05.24 | gnarface | you should be able to change /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules to represent whichever devices you want |
| 20:05.43 | topro | i still have it in place since before the swap to enpXsY. now that kewrnel returned to naming ethX it just ignores that file obviously |
| 20:06.04 | gnarface | you sure about that? |
| 20:06.24 | topro | I have those rules for those mac addresses but it names interfaces exactly in opposite/random order |
| 20:06.28 | topro | quite sure, yes |
| 20:06.35 | topro | not only one machine affected |
| 20:06.53 | gnarface | did you make sure to remove lines from ethernet devices no longer attached to the machine? |
| 20:07.41 | topro | got a paste service? I'm still used to the debian pastebin but it feels wrong to use that here ;) |
| 20:07.49 | gnarface | heh |
| 20:07.55 | gnarface | working on that one still |
| 20:07.58 | gnarface | just use the debian one for now |
| 20:08.25 | topro | https://paste.debian.net/1008234/ |
| 20:08.33 | topro | my persistent net rules file |
| 20:08.39 | blinkdog | you can still use it; Debian and Devuan aren't enemies |
| 20:08.53 | topro | and there are exactly those two interfaces on that machine, but will get named the opposite way |
| 20:10.14 | topro | could it be that those rules have some legacy attributes no longer supported to make those rules invalid to current version of udev? |
| 20:10.57 | topro | but on the other hand, when removing those lines, the net generator rule should create new entries for me like it used to do back in the days, right? it will not do so either |
| 20:11.01 | Irrwahn | topro: Since you updated to Ascii I assume you have eudev instead of udev. Don't know if/how eudev handles /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules. |
| 20:11.22 | topro | hi Irrwahn :) |
| 20:11.27 | Irrwahn | Hi. :) |
| 20:11.28 | topro | yes, its eudev |
| 20:11.31 | gnarface | if it doesn't, then it's probably in error... |
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| 20:12.17 | Irrwahn | Eudev is new to me too, so I don't think I can be of much specific help, but I suspect it's related to the udev -> eudev transition. |
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| 20:13.22 | gnarface | topro: test something for me; remove ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0" from the second line, see if it obeys it then |
| 20:13.42 | blinkdog | brb relog |
| 20:13.46 | topro | gnarface: just from the second line? |
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| 20:17.24 | gnarface | topro: maybe even both |
| 20:17.37 | topro | removed both, rebooting... |
| 20:18.55 | Irrwahn | Fun fact: If I manually call: export INTERFACE=eth0; export MATCHADDR="54:04:a6:38:60:d1"; /lib/udev/write_net_rules |
| 20:19.05 | Irrwahn | it generates a line like that: SUBSYSTEM=="net", ACTION=="add", DRIVERS=="?*", ATTR{address}=="54:04:a6:38:60:d1", KERNEL=="eth*", NAME="eth0" |
| 20:19.10 | topro | gnarface: no luck |
| 20:19.25 | Irrwahn | Note: no ATTR{dev_id}=="0x0", ATTR{type}=="1" |
| 20:19.45 | topro | ok, will retry with even removing type |
| 20:20.35 | Irrwahn | (Haven't had a 70-persistent-net.rules on this machine for ages, but have only one interface either. ^.^) |
| 20:22.09 | Irrwahn | On my bootstrapped Ascii VM the /etc/udev/rules.d dir is empty, FWIW. |
| 20:22.54 | gnarface | i'm not sure omitting type will matter |
| 20:23.21 | Irrwahn | Ditto, just thought I mention the differences. |
| 20:25.44 | topro | no, it doesn't. so for the moment I will stick to swapping names in /etc/network/interfaces as at least wrong naming at least seems stable. need to get some rest now. thank you! cu |
| 20:26.11 | Irrwahn | yw, cu |
| 20:26.50 | topro | btw. will keep you informed about elogind. currently looks promising with lightdm |
| 20:26.55 | topro | bye |
| 20:27.02 | Irrwahn | topro: great, thank you! :) |
| 20:27.04 | Irrwahn | bye |
| 20:27.43 | gnarface | who is working on eudev again? |
| 20:28.25 | Irrwahn | Could it be parazyd? Not sure. |
| 20:28.26 | gnarface | i'd like to know if /etc/udev/rules.d is being ignored by design or if this is a bug |
| 20:28.51 | gnarface | (or some other userspace mistake) |
| 20:29.09 | Irrwahn | Yeah, would be good to know. |
| 20:31.21 | Irrwahn | Looking at the upstream repo for eudev it at least has the generator scripts. |
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| 22:01.46 | gnarface | well i'm 0/3 today |
| 22:01.51 | gnarface | anyone have any problems i can actually solve? |
| 22:02.30 | golinux | gnarface: Try a walk on the beach |
| 22:03.41 | gnarface | heh, not a bad suggestion |
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| 22:09.54 | blop | things seem quite happy here. ty devuan! |
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| 22:12.51 | fsmithred | gnarface, I have audio problems on one box, but I don't have time to deal with it right now. If you're at the beach, maybe when you get back I'll be done what I'm doing. |
| 22:14.13 | fsmithred | Problem is no microphone in video chat (in ascii) in firefox and chromium, I think it started when I installed the new kernel with the meltdown patch, but it might have happened a few days before that when I tried firefox-57 with apulse. |
| 22:14.50 | fsmithred | Mic works if I want to record something with audacity. Speakers work. Mic works in chromium and firefox-esr in jessie on the same box. |
| 22:15.12 | fsmithred | I remove apulse, and that didn't help. |
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| 22:55.59 | gnarface | fsmithred: i'm here, i'm just doing laundry |
| 22:56.08 | gnarface | fsmithred: my guess is it's the kernel |
| 22:56.50 | gnarface | lemme know if further testing doesn't back that up |
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| 23:32.32 | fsmithred | gnarface, booting into the old kernel does not help |
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| 23:40.19 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 23:40.30 | gnarface | i was just a guess based on the fact i had problems with alsa in the newer kernels too |
| 23:40.56 | gnarface | must be firefox then |
| 23:41.09 | gnarface | well |
| 23:41.23 | gnarface | ok i couldn't get recording working with apulse either, but i had assumed it was a problem with steam |
| 23:42.12 | gnarface | (or user error on my part) |
| 23:42.25 | gnarface | should i have pavucontrol for apulse or something like that? |
| 23:47.09 | fsmithred | O |
| 23:47.14 | fsmithred | oops |
| 23:47.57 | fsmithred | I can record. Mic fails only in browsers (ff and chromium) |
| 23:48.35 | gnarface | does that chromium also need apulse? |
| 23:48.41 | fsmithred | nope |
| 23:48.47 | fsmithred | ff-esr doesn't need it, either |
| 23:49.06 | fsmithred | I only tested ff-57 for one day and had no sound with it (with apulse) |
| 23:49.07 | gnarface | on, on ascii, firefox-esr doesn't have mic either? |
| 23:49.20 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 23:49.24 | fsmithred | used to until recently |
| 23:49.35 | gnarface | but going back to kernel 4.9 doesn't fix it? |
| 23:49.47 | fsmithred | nope |
| 23:49.49 | fsmithred | arecord -d 5 -f dat test-mic.wav |
| 23:49.49 | fsmithred | ALSA lib pcm_asym.c:106:(_snd_pcm_asym_open) capture slave is not defined |
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| 23:50.22 | gnarface | well that doesn't look right |
| 23:50.27 | gnarface | wait |
| 23:50.41 | gnarface | hmmm |
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| 23:51.58 | gnarface | fsmithred: did you customize any alsa configs or add a ~/.asoundrc? |
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| 23:54.21 | gnarface | also, if arecord doesn't work, how the hell could audacity work? |
| 23:54.44 | blop | hmph recipe for target .../objtool/arch/x86/decode.o' failed |
| 23:54.45 | gnarface | oh i wonder if it's just the wrong soundcard |
| 23:54.46 | fsmithred | no customizations |
| 23:55.01 | fsmithred | no clue about why audacity works, but I just tested again |
| 23:55.08 | gnarface | maybe they came up in a different order |
| 23:55.11 | fsmithred | two devices are called card 0 |
| 23:55.35 | fsmithred | well, they're both Intel PCH |
| 23:55.51 | gnarface | is it actually two? it might just be multiple devices on the same one |
| 23:55.55 | fsmithred | one is ALC269VB other is HDMI |
| 23:55.58 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 23:56.20 | blop | oh getting further now with make deb-pkg |
| 23:56.46 | blop | aha figured it out |
| 23:56.48 | gnarface | fsmithred: i wouldn't expect the HDMI one to have an input |
| 23:57.00 | fsmithred | oh, good point |
| 23:57.17 | gnarface | fsmithred: if it's coming up first now, but audacity is configured to the other one specifically, that would explain the arecord failure above |
| 23:57.41 | fsmithred | audacity works when configured to sysdefault |
| 23:57.52 | fsmithred | didn't work when I had it set to hw:something |
| 23:57.52 | gnarface | hmmm |
| 23:58.04 | gnarface | well it matters with hw: something |
| 23:58.17 | gnarface | and probably it won't work while you're also playing |
| 23:58.33 | fsmithred | maybe. didn't try that. |
| 23:58.50 | gnarface | if you need to capture while playing you probably need to use dsnoop |
| 23:58.53 | gnarface | (plug:dsnoop) |
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| 23:59.25 | fsmithred | I don't need that. Nothing fancy. Just need mic in video chat. |
| 23:59.45 | gnarface | fsmithred: if you compare the output of arecord -l and aplay -l, you can see that only inputs show up in arecord's output |