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| 01:19.10 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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| 09:30.18 | Criggie | well that was annoying - couldn't boot an ascii machine because of network problems - kept "waiting for lock on /run/network/ifstate.eth0" |
| 09:30.27 | Criggie | I had to tell grub to boot init=bin/bash |
| 09:30.40 | Criggie | then edit /etc/fstab to comment out the NFS mounts |
| 09:30.52 | Criggie | and edit /etc/network/interfaces to remove a vlan interface |
| 09:31.00 | Criggie | Only then would it boot normally. |
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| 10:05.00 | amarsh04 | I've had some problems starting KDE plasma recently (last few days), it starts as a different user ok but still gives a long .xsession-errors file so will see what I can change to reduece the size of the output |
| 10:06.04 | amarsh04 | might be because I'm using something from Debian experimental rather then Devuan ascii |
| 10:06.26 | amarsh04 | will be experimenting on other machine for a while but will check back in here |
| 10:08.42 | KatolaZ | amarsh04: please do not mix repos, unless you really know what you are doing |
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| 10:41.24 | amarsh04 | KatolaZ it is a bit painful but I am learning a bit now |
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| 10:51.27 | nacelle | has anyone gotten devuan installer to boot on uefi32bit machines? |
| 10:51.32 | nacelle | (with 64bit procs) |
| 10:51.56 | nacelle | my usual tricks are failing |
| 10:52.30 | nacelle | (debian installer boots on this machine) |
| 10:54.43 | KatolaZ | amarsh04: be careful if you use Debian repos, since you can easily get systemd-related stuff |
| 10:55.06 | KatolaZ | nacelle: which installer are you talking about? |
| 10:56.52 | KatolaZ | (nacelle: Devuan version? media? ) |
| 11:02.39 | coyote | nacelle, i use only bios, but installer seems working with all |
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| 12:24.06 | amarsh04 | KatolaZ my problem seems to be like this report: https://forum.kde.org/viewtopic.php?f=289&t=124492 |
| 12:25.37 | KatolaZ | amarsh04: which version of Devuan are you using? |
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| 12:41.54 | amarsh04 | KatolaZ mainly the equivalent of Debian's unstable |
| 12:42.08 | KatolaZ | amarsh04: what do you mean by that? |
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| 13:19.56 | blop | hm |
| 13:20.05 | blop | hello, devuan jessie amd64 dvd installed but network card couldn't connect. uefi system. grub couldn't write (secure boot is off). managed to boot to devuan from grub2 (old grub install). |
| 13:20.41 | blop | normally i'd now run grub-install, but 'command not found' |
| 13:20.52 | blop | efibootmgr is also 'command not found' |
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| 13:24.30 | blop | found the packages on the live dvd and am installing |
| 13:28.03 | blop | not sure how to create an efi for devuan. i can access /boot/efi/EFI and see the previous ones |
| 13:28.31 | blop | need the bootx64.efi for devuan |
| 13:31.25 | fsmithred | blop, is "uefi" in the filename of the iso? |
| 13:31.28 | KatolaZ | blop: there are already DVD images for EFI |
| 13:31.36 | KatolaZ | there you go :) |
| 13:31.42 | blop | no it isn't in the iso :/ |
| 13:31.50 | KatolaZ | blop: wrong iso then |
| 13:31.54 | fsmithred | can still fix it if you can connect to internet |
| 13:32.23 | blop | i can ifup eth0 and the route looks good, but no pings |
| 13:32.23 | fsmithred | apt-get install grub-efi-amd64 |
| 13:32.54 | blop | oh cool, i can mount the image on /media/cdrom |
| 13:32.56 | KatolaZ | blop: is it in a VM? |
| 13:33.44 | blop | no |
| 13:34.19 | blop | is there a default wifi/network manager? didn't see one in the menu |
| 13:34.21 | fsmithred | blop, you tried pinging a number instead of a name? |
| 13:34.27 | fsmithred | wicd |
| 13:34.27 | blop | yes tried pinging the router |
| 13:34.50 | fsmithred | maybe 'dhclient eth0' would work better? That's just a guess. |
| 13:35.15 | fsmithred | what's in /etc/resolv.conf? |
| 13:35.52 | fsmithred | I usually just have the router address in that file |
| 13:36.20 | blop | apt-get install grub-efi-amd64 succeeded |
| 13:36.37 | fsmithred | oh! so you are online. |
| 13:36.42 | blop | resolv.conf has my router as nameserver |
| 13:37.02 | blop | i am not online - it installed from installation media mounted on /media/cdrom |
| 13:37.05 | fsmithred | it should pull in everything you need. just run 'grub-install' and 'update-grub' |
| 13:37.14 | fsmithred | oh |
| 13:37.17 | blop | well at least i can't ping |
| 13:37.45 | blop | looks good |
| 13:38.08 | blop | update-grub did give an error |
| 13:38.14 | fsmithred | ? |
| 13:38.42 | blop | /etc/grubd./30_uefi-firmware: 34: /etc/grub.d/30_uefi-firmware: arithmetic expression: expecting EOF: " 7f & 1 " |
| 13:38.51 | blop | *grub.d |
| 13:39.03 | fsmithred | that's weird |
| 13:40.17 | blop | well i have grubx64.efi in /boot/efi/EFI/devuan now |
| 13:40.25 | fsmithred | good |
| 13:40.34 | blop | wicd also didn't get installed |
| 13:40.38 | fsmithred | hope you get a boot menu |
| 13:40.54 | fsmithred | oh, please run 'dpgk -l | wc -l' |
| 13:41.46 | fsmithred | should be more than 1400 packages installed |
| 13:41.57 | blop | 1277 |
| 13:42.08 | fsmithred | something got lost in the install |
| 13:42.38 | fsmithred | you can check the error log - should be in user's home |
| 13:42.55 | fsmithred | but probably just contains stupid gtk errors |
| 13:43.24 | blop | i used non-gui install |
| 13:43.37 | fsmithred | that's ok |
| 13:43.46 | fsmithred | it should do the same thing |
| 13:44.22 | fsmithred | if it didn't get copied to your home, look in /var/log/refractainstaller_error.log |
| 13:45.19 | blop | no such file |
| 13:45.55 | fsmithred | where are you looking? |
| 13:46.09 | blop | /var/log |
| 13:46.16 | blop | wicd daemon installed |
| 13:46.19 | fsmithred | how did you install from a mounted iso? |
| 13:46.49 | blop | with the installer that came up on booting from the usb stick |
| 13:47.25 | fsmithred | huh? installer came up on boot? The live isos don't have that. |
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| 13:48.12 | blop | devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_DVD.iso |
| 13:48.22 | fsmithred | oh, that's not a live iso |
| 13:48.40 | fsmithred | you should be able to install whatever you want from that. |
| 13:48.42 | blop | i find python-wicd and wicd-daemon on the installer iso |
| 13:48.50 | blop | both are installed |
| 13:48.57 | blop | no wicd-curses or wicd-gtk |
| 13:50.10 | fsmithred | confirmed |
| 13:51.00 | fsmithred | well, if you have a wired connection now, you can install one or both of those |
| 13:51.13 | blop | dhclient didn't get an address |
| 13:51.39 | blop | i see python-wicd seems to have executables in /usr/lib/python2.7/dist-packages/wicd |
| 13:51.45 | blop | how do i invoke it? |
| 13:52.06 | fsmithred | only way I know is to run one of those missing frontends |
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| 13:54.00 | blop | ok then i'll first try the grub boot |
| 13:55.50 | blop | gives me the grub cmdline |
| 13:57.49 | blop | https://files.devuan.org/devuan_jessie/installer-iso/ btw i don't see anything besides amd64_DVD.iso here |
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| 13:59.36 | fsmithred | blop, the live isos are in different directories |
| 13:59.56 | blop | do i want a live iso to install devuan to hard drive? |
| 13:59.57 | fsmithred | and you got grub prompt because there's no grub.cfg since update-grub failed |
| 14:00.04 | fsmithred | either should work |
| 14:00.23 | fsmithred | if you want lvm or raid, live isos won't do it |
| 14:00.34 | blop | no need for that |
| 14:00.46 | fsmithred | you still on grub prompt? |
| 14:00.54 | fsmithred | easy to boot from there |
| 14:02.05 | blop | yeah did it before |
| 14:03.23 | blop | this time it said error: no suitable video mode found. |
| 14:03.25 | blop | trying again |
| 14:06.03 | blop | this is new to me |
| 14:06.43 | fsmithred | try setting video before set root=(hd... |
| 14:07.12 | fsmithred | set gfx_payload=1024x768 (or the best resolution for your monitor) |
| 14:07.18 | blop | ty |
| 14:08.05 | fsmithred | did you use a network mirror for install, or did you install from the media? |
| 14:09.12 | blop | media |
| 14:09.33 | blop | didn't like payload 1920x1080 |
| 14:10.28 | blop | downloading the devuan_jessie_1.0.0_amd64_uefi_desktop-live.iso while i'm at it |
| 14:10.37 | fsmithred | ok |
| 14:10.53 | fsmithred | one advantage of the live install is that it's a faster install - about 10 min. |
| 14:11.14 | blop | well i have about an hour til the iso is downloaded and dd'd |
| 14:11.31 | blop | i'll try 1024x768 |
| 14:11.38 | fsmithred | ok, I'll go make breakfast. back in a little bit. |
| 14:14.57 | blop | still blind mode |
| 14:15.33 | blop | *coffee brb |
| 14:21.47 | blop | oh expert install is neat |
| 14:22.48 | blop | the ethernet is a usb ethernet ax88179_178a eth0 registereed with usbcore. IPv6 ADDRCONF(NETDEV_UP: eth0: link is not ready says dmesg |
| 14:23.04 | blop | (they actually are building laptops without ethernet now :/) |
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| 14:26.58 | fsmithred | if it says 'booting in blind mode' then something will come up eventually. At least that's what I get. |
| 14:27.41 | blop | ohh |
| 14:27.43 | fsmithred | but since it's uefi, there's no way to predict what it will do. |
| 14:28.00 | fsmithred | is this a laptop? |
| 14:28.20 | fsmithred | better question: what kind of computer? |
| 14:28.45 | blop | yes laptop. i wanted a ryzen so i got an acer swift 3 with ryzen 2500u |
| 14:28.57 | blop | dunno if it's a keeper |
| 14:29.16 | fsmithred | if the laptop is a keeper, the OS is not. YOu need newer kernel. |
| 14:29.31 | fsmithred | I think ryzen needs at least 4.10 |
| 14:29.55 | blop | i think ascii has 4.10, don't remember |
| 14:29.57 | fsmithred | I made an iso with ascii and ascii backports kernel that should work |
| 14:30.00 | fsmithred | no 4.9 |
| 14:30.49 | blop | yeah well dhcp is not working with this version of the driver at least |
| 14:31.12 | blop | gonna swap cables |
| 14:31.13 | fsmithred | http://distro.ibiblio.org/refracta/files/experimental/refracta-test_bpo_amd64-20180114_0419.iso |
| 14:31.41 | fsmithred | that's not an official devuan iso - it's a respin, uses only devuan repos |
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| 14:37.36 | blop | yeah was a bad cable |
| 14:37.58 | fsmithred | cool |
| 14:40.13 | blop | shouldn't i be able to set bootable flag on my / partition? |
| 14:40.21 | blop | in the installer |
| 14:40.22 | fsmithred | what for? |
| 14:40.31 | fsmithred | linux doesn't need it |
| 14:40.35 | blop | ok |
| 14:40.42 | fsmithred | and uefi partition gets esp and boot flags |
| 14:40.43 | blop | forgot that |
| 14:41.12 | blop | well i'll help test the refracta-test then |
| 14:41.20 | fsmithred | cool, thanks |
| 14:41.51 | fsmithred | I'm curious to know if the wireless works with the backports kernel. I couldn't find wireless firmware in backports |
| 14:42.06 | blop | ok |
| 14:42.15 | blop | ah devuan takes bitcoin. that's good. |
| 14:51.39 | amarsh04 | KatolaZ the problem was radeonsi_dri.so, nothing directly to do with KDE or devuan |
| 14:51.56 | amarsh04 | now running again |
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| 15:03.31 | blop | there were recent kernel fixes to kernel bogging down with heavy file i/o |
| 15:03.50 | blop | problem was around for a decade or so |
| 15:04.22 | blop | i can lock-up this 4.10 box with a find |
| 15:05.59 | Lydia_K | whoa, they finally fixed that? I remember when that started I was so upset, it never used to happen. |
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| 15:12.05 | blop | trying refracta 4.14 |
| 15:12.19 | blop | boots/runs fine |
| 15:12.52 | blop | what's root pw fsmithred ? |
| 15:13.26 | blop | oh it seems to run with sudo |
| 15:13.57 | fsmithred | root:root, user:user |
| 15:14.09 | fsmithred | and yeah, sudo nopasswd for everything while running live |
| 15:14.50 | blop | not going to encrypt. don't think i need uuid. should i leave 'do not install bootloader'? |
| 15:15.08 | fsmithred | graphical installer? |
| 15:15.10 | blop | yeah |
| 15:15.24 | fsmithred | that option is irrelevant |
| 15:15.27 | blop | running Refracta installer |
| 15:15.32 | fsmithred | you'll get asked later about bootloader |
| 15:15.44 | blop | i already have working grub2 on the drive |
| 15:15.58 | fsmithred | then say no when it asks |
| 15:16.04 | fsmithred | toward the end of the install |
| 15:16.15 | fsmithred | or continue without bootloader |
| 15:16.38 | fsmithred | that logic needs to be cleaned up a bit in next version |
| 15:16.45 | blop | ok no need to partition, will use /dev/nvme0n1p2 |
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| 15:17.08 | fsmithred | ok, it will format the partition unless you selected "no format" |
| 15:17.13 | blop | nice this partition list thing |
| 15:17.29 | fsmithred | glad you like it |
| 15:17.56 | blop | summary says pre-install scripts are disabled. is that right? |
| 15:18.04 | blop | post-install scripts are enabled |
| 15:18.19 | fsmithred | pre-install scripts are for locale and tzdata settings |
| 15:18.26 | blop | ok i can do that later |
| 15:18.47 | fsmithred | postinstall removes the installer icon from the desktop, but I didn't put one there, so it won't do anything. |
| 15:19.35 | fsmithred | damn, I should not have left the pre-install scripts disabled. I must have set that in the config file, because I was testing with the cli installer |
| 15:21.17 | blop | if i don't run 'Install bootloader' then grub2 won't know about the new devuan uefi stuff, right? |
| 15:21.39 | blop | reinstalling bootloader /should/ find the existing partitions, no? |
| 15:21.48 | fsmithred | if you don't run that, then 'grub-install' and 'update-grub' won't run |
| 15:22.11 | blop | well i don't care about the other os's :) so no harm can be done |
| 15:22.11 | fsmithred | if you have another linux installed, you can boot into that one, run update-grub, and the new install should get added to the boot menu |
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| 15:22.29 | fsmithred | sounds like you should install the bootloader |
| 15:22.40 | fsmithred | it should find the old linux and add it to menu |
| 15:22.45 | blop | yeah ok ty |
| 15:23.24 | fsmithred | if you don't like it, you can later run efibootmgr and delete the first bootloader |
| 15:23.38 | fsmithred | previous one should be next in line |
| 15:24.36 | blop | 'logout command is not set'. will reboot from cli |
| 15:24.46 | fsmithred | from the panel? |
| 15:24.50 | blop | yes |
| 15:24.52 | fsmithred | right-click desktop |
| 15:24.58 | fsmithred | and be warned... |
| 15:25.05 | fsmithred | reboot and shutdown are instant |
| 15:25.08 | blop | ah reboot works |
| 15:25.09 | fsmithred | they don't ask for confirmation |
| 15:25.55 | blop | f12 boot manager doesn't find devuan |
| 15:26.03 | blop | on reboot |
| 15:26.06 | fsmithred | if you want to enable the logout in the panel, you can set it to use one of two scripts found in /usr/local/bin |
| 15:26.15 | fsmithred | refracta? |
| 15:26.20 | blop | yes |
| 15:26.23 | blop | not found |
| 15:26.23 | fsmithred | that's it |
| 15:26.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: no progress with ACL? then I gonna implement a botch for fsmithred, ok? |
| 15:26.36 | fsmithred | what's not found? |
| 15:26.55 | fsmithred | botch? |
| 15:26.56 | blop | refracta not found. it still sees my old siduction |
| 15:27.22 | fsmithred | weird. grub got installed? |
| 15:27.25 | blop | oh selecting siduction gives me refracta |
| 15:27.35 | blop | \o/ |
| 15:28.06 | blop | i'm in |
| 15:29.07 | *** join/#devuan Besnik_b (~Besnik@ppp-94-66-221-107.home.otenet.gr) |
| 15:29.10 | blop | (console) |
| 15:29.27 | fsmithred | lol, I don't know what happened there |
| 15:29.49 | fsmithred | look in /boot/efi/EFI/ to see if there's a refracta dir |
| 15:30.05 | blop | there is |
| 15:30.25 | blop | update & dist-upgrade running |
| 15:30.51 | blop | 4.14.0-0-bpo.2-amd64 installed |
| 15:31.18 | blop | should i try grub-install && update-grub? |
| 15:31.24 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 15:31.43 | blop | finished, no errors |
| 15:31.45 | *** join/#devuan AntoFox (~Thunderbi@dynamic-adsl-78-12-54-69.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 15:32.04 | blop | efibootmgr reports Boot000* refracta |
| 15:32.13 | blop | bootorder 0000,0002 etc |
| 15:32.18 | fsmithred | 000*??? |
| 15:32.23 | fsmithred | never saw that before |
| 15:32.24 | blop | Boot0000* |
| 15:32.25 | blop | sorry |
| 15:32.38 | blop | looking good, rebooting |
| 15:33.15 | blop | blue screen "Default Boot Device Missing or Boot Failed" // Insert Recovery Media and Hit any key |
| 15:34.10 | blop | f12 and then selecting 'siduction' gives me the refracta grub |
| 15:34.16 | *** mode/#devuan [+o fsmithred] by ChanServ |
| 15:34.31 | blop | boots fine |
| 15:34.48 | blop | startx works |
| 15:34.56 | fsmithred | great. This is one of the many reasons I hate uefi. |
| 15:35.02 | blop | :) me too |
| 15:35.11 | blop | but it does allow for more primary partitions so yay |
| 15:35.18 | fsmithred | oh... |
| 15:35.28 | fsmithred | you can use gpt with bios boot |
| 15:35.44 | blop | i don't think my bios has an option for legacy bios |
| 15:35.45 | fsmithred | but have to make a special bios grub partition |
| 15:35.49 | fsmithred | oh |
| 15:35.51 | fsmithred | yuk |
| 15:35.57 | blop | yeah,, acer |
| 15:36.17 | blop | anyway thanks for glorious ascii image |
| 15:36.20 | fsmithred | HP is worse - you have to lie to it and tell it you're booting windows |
| 15:36.22 | fsmithred | yw |
| 15:36.49 | blop | now to blacklist bluetooth |
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| 15:38.09 | *** mode/#devuan [-o fsmithred] by fsmithred |
| 15:39.10 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: no, never got a reply |
| 15:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | try again maybe. email is the wrong approach |
| 15:41.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | freenode email all ends in dev/null |
| 15:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-/ |
| 15:42.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | stats p says one staffer available |
| 15:43.06 | fsmithred | brb |
| 15:44.59 | parazyd | queried |
| 15:45.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 15:45.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | bigpresh rings a bell, nice person iirc |
| 15:45.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I might be totally wrong though |
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| 15:49.26 | *** join/#devuan fromport (~fromport@caretaker.het.net) |
| 15:50.06 | fromport | interesting answer regarding use of systemd and boot times after a quick test: https://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20180129#qa |
| 15:56.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | fromport: hehe nice |
| 15:59.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the "it's easier and faster to write znit files for systemd than to write sysv initscripts" I have my own answer: I can save 10s in typing with unit files, but only after 6h of study how to achieve that. And alas the knowledge learned from systemd unitfile study doesn't stick to my brain so the expense/savings ratio is every time the same |
| 15:59.17 | blop | ascii package gkrellm depends on libgnutls-openssl27 but libgnutls30 is available |
| 16:02.16 | *** join/#devuan IoFran2 (~Thunderbi@189.231.118.132) |
| 16:02.35 | gnarface | also it's probably worth mentioning that if a sysvinit script is that much of an intellectual burden to you, maybe you need to study more. |
| 16:02.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 16:03.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | very much unlike unit files, sysvinit files are self explabatory to every moderately educated sysop |
| 16:04.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | and don't get me started on debugging (options) - but I guess this whole rant is OT in here |
| 16:04.40 | Walex | DocScrutinizer05: that's a bit optimistic -- many shell scripts are pretty poorly written; bvut the unit file "scripting language" basically forces one to write poor scripts :-) |
| 16:07.05 | fromport | i used to work with miquels (author sysvinit on linux) and he is a real genius in writing scripts ;-) |
| 16:07.23 | Walex | fromport: uhm :-) |
| 16:07.36 | *** join/#devuan earthnative (~nemo@59.167.208.146) |
| 16:07.44 | Walex | fromport: of course *my* thesis is that *my* scripts are the most wonderful :-) |
| 16:07.57 | blop | ah openbox no support windowmaker dockapps slit. too bad |
| 16:07.59 | fromport | without having seen them: totally agree ! ;-) |
| 16:08.18 | blop | oh maybe it do |
| 16:08.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sure my scripts usually suck, but do about 99% of what they're expected to |
| 16:08.35 | Walex | fromport: many thanks! :-) |
| 16:09.28 | Walex | one of the tragedies of Debian/Debuan is that some pre/port shell script for packages are colossal and spaghetti-like. I think the longest is around 2,000 lines long |
| 16:09.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | writing *good* shellscripts is a an art not everybody can master |
| 16:09.49 | fromport | miquels wrote games for zx81/spectrum back in the days. you had to be fairly creative to make something work back then ;-) |
| 16:10.08 | Walex | fromport: good guy! |
| 16:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | fromport: hmm, I did as well |
| 16:10.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least game of life |
| 16:11.03 | fromport | we must all be old geezers then ;-) |
| 16:11.35 | Walex | fromport: on the other hand I knew a guy who implemented a Lisp interpreter on a 64KiB z80 system and had such a rich set of data type operations (including rational complex numbers on an 8-bit machine) that the largest program it could run was around 50-100 lines long |
| 16:11.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | hahaha |
| 16:12.01 | Walex | fromport: "veteran UNIX admins" as the label says in the tin :-) |
| 16:12.46 | blop | < old too |
| 16:12.52 | Walex | my oldest UNIX system home was a 286 running Microport System V.2 |
| 16:13.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh |
| 16:13.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it wasn't before 386 that I actually installed a linux on a system. Amiga lacked MMU |
| 16:13.59 | fromport | started with 6809 with flex and later uniflex ;-) |
| 16:14.22 | fromport | on home made hardware |
| 16:14.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I pondered porting minix to my amiga1000 |
| 16:14.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | my homegrows stuff never seen anything but Z80 hex codes |
| 16:15.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | had a 1kB "NASMON" iirc |
| 16:15.40 | Walex | fromport: Flex was quite nice indeed, good taste |
| 16:16.00 | Walex | old UNIX distribution prices: http://www.sabi.co.uk/Misc/unixOldPrices-1.jpg |
| 16:16.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | nascom-I |
| 16:16.47 | fromport | Walex: too bad it doesn't have a date on it! |
| 16:17.49 | Walex | fromport: http://www.sabi.co.uk/xirc/I/microportOrder880703b.png |
| 16:18.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | O didn't buy the BDS tapes back when since I lacked a tape drive ;-) |
| 16:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I* |
| 16:18.47 | fromport | *grin* wonderful! taking us back to memory lane ! ;-) |
| 16:19.12 | fromport | we bought uniflex with 5 people together since i/we couldn't afford a legal copy back then |
| 16:21.14 | Walex | fromport: the earlier price list must be from end 1989/beginning 1990 because that's when I upgraded to 32 bit ESIX (Microport V.2 was 16-bit for 286s and had virtual memory and worked pretty well). |
| 16:21.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | a real pity though dates later: never got around to actually buying a NeXT cube, and even lost the excellent manuals I had bought |
| 16:23.36 | Walex | I wonder sometimes where all the people who did pretty good stuff like Microport or ESIX are now -- I hope they are earning well at google or somewhere like that. |
| 16:24.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | pondered applying at Google, a week ago |
| 16:25.31 | Walex | my impression is that of course Google is non-discriminatory, buthe somehow that people over 35-40 very rarely get hired |
| 16:25.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 16:26.07 | fromport | miquels (author sysvinit) declined job at google. i think he still regrets that. but we did get to write/adept sysvinit with serial console and were mentioned on the frontpage of nasa. they needed serial console support to boot a computer shot into space so we wrote it ;-) |
| 16:26.09 | Walex | No country for Veteran UNIX Admins :-) |
| 16:26.58 | Walex | fromport: there is a story that appeared on NeXTMagazine that made me really laugh about careers at big places... |
| 16:27.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | fromport: hehe - The Real Programmer |
| 16:27.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://web.mit.edu/humor/Computers/real.programmers |
| 16:28.43 | Walex | fromport: some NeXT developer was moaning that his colleagues who had followed R Rashid (the CTO) at Microsoft were making so much more in stock options than him, because he kept working for NeXT/Apple and at the time Apple stock had not yet ballooned up. |
| 16:28.54 | *** join/#devuan Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 16:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>If you can't do it in FORTRAN, do it in assembly language. If you can't do it in assembly language, it isn't worth doing.<< |
| 16:29.52 | fromport | *lol* |
| 16:30.20 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@2a03:b0c0:2:d0::f7:f001) |
| 16:30.20 | *** join/#devuan golinux (~golinux@devuan/developer/golinux) |
| 16:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> My first task in the Real World was to read and understand a 2O0,OO0-line FORTRAN program, then speed it up by a factor of two. Any Real Programmer will tell you that all the Structured Coding in the world won't help you solve a problem like that -- it takes actual talent.<< |
| 16:33.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | one of my real tasks was to re-implement a 2 million LOC accounting&statistics program used by national welfare, half of it in Assembler and other in COBOL and no docs other than sourcecode for it. Target was COBOL-only and of course it must be 10 times as fast, and shorter |
| 16:34.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course I been just one of a team of devels |
| 16:34.47 | Walex | DocScrutinizer05: at least you survived to tell the tale :-) |
| 16:35.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, I left the team eventually |
| 16:36.19 | Walex | sometimes it is the only survival strategy left. I pity our poor equivalents in India that have to do all that maintenance work nowadays... |
| 16:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | too many totally braindamaged conventions like 77 const-1 value "1" |
| 16:36.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | literally |
| 16:36.51 | Walex | classic! :-) |
| 16:37.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | "No numerical constants in programs AT ALL!" was a rule |
| 16:39.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | so a a[3]++ becomes "ADD const-1 TO a INDEX const-3" or somesuch |
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| 17:05.30 | blop | hui, i can't build-dep gkrellm either |
| 17:06.05 | *** part/#devuan sardonico (~ale@217-133-28-65.static.clienti.tiscali.it) |
| 17:06.29 | blop | depends libgtk2.0-dev but not going to be installed. and manually installing that gets me down a tree of other "not going to be installed" things |
| 17:06.42 | blop | is there an apt-get trick to install those anyway? |
| 17:07.16 | KatolaZ | blop: which version of devuan are you using? |
| 17:07.21 | blop | ascii |
| 17:07.26 | KatolaZ | blop: what do you have in your sources.list? |
| 17:07.47 | KatolaZ | (I have just installet gkrellm in my ascii, and it works...) |
| 17:07.56 | KatolaZ | ~installed |
| 17:08.12 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, he installed an ascii iso I made with backports kernel |
| 17:08.25 | fsmithred | check to make sure backports is commented out in sources.list |
| 17:08.27 | KatolaZ | (meaning that there is no broken dep on gkrellm) |
| 17:08.30 | blop | deb http://pkgmaster.devuan.org/merged ascii main contrib nonfree, and ascii-updates main, ascii-security main, ascii-proposed main, ascii-backports main |
| 17:08.35 | blop | oh ok |
| 17:08.36 | KatolaZ | blop: sources.list |
| 17:09.10 | KatolaZ | (please) |
| 17:09.31 | blop | will do |
| 17:10.19 | blop | https://pastebin.com/Xfy8kba8 |
| 17:10.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | rotfl! Your paste has triggered our automatic SPAM detection filter |
| 17:11.03 | blop | eh |
| 17:11.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly fsck pastebin |
| 17:11.47 | blop | ok now try |
| 17:11.51 | KatolaZ | blop: use |
| 17:11.59 | KatolaZ | curl -L -F c=@- https://ptpb.pw </etc/apt/sources.list |
| 17:12.24 | blop | pastebin should work now.. will use ptpb.pw in future |
| 17:12.57 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 17:13.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | alias paste='nc termbin.com 9999' |
| 17:14.56 | blop | http://termbin.com/u9ny |
| 17:15.04 | KatolaZ | blop: have you apt-get updated? |
| 17:15.29 | KatolaZ | apt-cache policy gkrellm |
| 17:15.41 | blop | yes: unmet dependencies: gkrellm: Depends: libgnutls-openssl27 (>= 3.0-0) but it is not going to be installed |
| 17:15.56 | blop | ok |
| 17:16.35 | fsmithred | it gets weirder than that |
| 17:16.43 | blop | http://termbin.com/nb3g |
| 17:16.47 | KatolaZ | uh?!?!? |
| 17:17.07 | fsmithred | libgnutls30 v. 3.5.8-6 is installed, and I can't find that in any repo |
| 17:17.17 | KatolaZ | blop: you are mixing repos mate |
| 17:17.24 | fsmithred | blame me |
| 17:17.47 | fsmithred | ascii-proposed and ascii-updates are enabled, but they shouldn't cause problems, right? |
| 17:18.06 | gnarface | updates and security definitely won't, but i don't know about proposed |
| 17:18.07 | KatolaZ | well, they shouldn't, in this specific case |
| 17:18.38 | gnarface | the fact he only has 'contrib' and 'non-free' enabled for main but not updates, or security, is probably a mistake though, even if it's not the cause of this problem. |
| 17:19.00 | fsmithred | good catch |
| 17:19.08 | blop | devuan-arm has libgnutls30 |
| 17:19.22 | KatolaZ | blop: that version of gkrellm is in ascii |
| 17:19.26 | KatolaZ | no updates |
| 17:19.29 | KatolaZ | no security |
| 17:19.31 | fsmithred | ascii has it, too |
| 17:19.31 | KatolaZ | no nothing |
| 17:19.36 | KatolaZ | it MUST install cleanly |
| 17:19.45 | KatolaZ | blop: apt-get install gkrellm |
| 17:19.46 | KatolaZ | (pls) |
| 17:19.51 | fsmithred | I'm getting similar error on system that made the iso |
| 17:20.15 | blop | should i add updates and security to sources.list? |
| 17:20.29 | blop | well i have ascii-updates and ascii-security main |
| 17:20.49 | fsmithred | you should add contrib and non-free to those |
| 17:20.54 | KatolaZ | blop, please |
| 17:20.58 | KatolaZ | apt-get install gkrellm |
| 17:21.09 | Irrwahn | FWIW, gkrellm would install cleanly on my ascii box, with -security, -updates and -proposed enabled. |
| 17:21.11 | blop | i already did KatolaZ |
| 17:21.14 | KatolaZ | (none of the gkrellm deps is outside main, BTW) |
| 17:21.18 | KatolaZ | blop: result? |
| 17:21.43 | blop | fsmithred: should i add contrib and non-free to the ascii-proposed line? |
| 17:21.59 | KatolaZ | blop: that would be pointless, TBH |
| 17:21.59 | fsmithred | not sure about that one |
| 17:22.03 | fsmithred | ok |
| 17:22.09 | fsmithred | but hang on... |
| 17:22.22 | blop | 17:15 < blop> yes: unmet dependencies: gkrellm: Depends: libgnutls-openssl27 (>= 3.0-0) but it is not going |
| 17:22.22 | blop | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:22.32 | fsmithred | I've got twilight-zone versions of libgnutls30 and mutt |
| 17:22.46 | blop | should i purge libgnutls30 ? |
| 17:22.58 | KatolaZ | blop: hold on |
| 17:23.01 | fsmithred | remove mutt and it should go |
| 17:23.10 | KatolaZ | that unmet dep is VERY strange mate |
| 17:23.16 | KatolaZ | which arch are you on? |
| 17:23.21 | fsmithred | amd64 |
| 17:23.54 | KatolaZ | libgnutls-openssl27 is present there |
| 17:23.59 | KatolaZ | guys, you are mixing repos here |
| 17:24.00 | blop | purged mutt*, apt-get updated, apt-get install gkrellm same error with libgnutls-openssl27 |
| 17:24.09 | fsmithred | no katolaz, I did not mix repos |
| 17:24.45 | KatolaZ | blop: have you "apt-get update"? |
| 17:24.57 | blop | KatolaZ: yes, |
| 17:25.06 | KatolaZ | blop: I am on ascii |
| 17:25.09 | KatolaZ | on amd64 |
| 17:25.16 | KatolaZ | apt-get install gkrellm installs without problems |
| 17:25.23 | Irrwahn | ^^ same here |
| 17:25.30 | Irrwahn | libgnutls-openssl27 should be 3.5.8-5+deb9u3 for Ascii |
| 17:26.09 | *** join/#devuan Nematocyst (~eric@174-28-93-229.albq.qwest.net) |
| 17:26.23 | Irrwahn | same version for libgnutls30, obviously |
| 17:26.46 | KatolaZ | blop: is this a new install or have you upgraded from another distro? |
| 17:26.58 | blop | policy for libgnutls-openssl27 is http://termbin.com/san4 |
| 17:27.07 | fsmithred | KatolaZ, he used an iso that I made |
| 17:27.25 | fsmithred | started as debootstrap ascii |
| 17:27.59 | KatolaZ | blop: that's correct |
| 17:28.06 | KatolaZ | that's why it's impossible that the install fails |
| 17:28.59 | blop | how about i purge the libgnutls-openssl30? |
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| 17:29.10 | KatolaZ | apt-get remove --purge libgnutls-openssl30 |
| 17:29.33 | fsmithred | I think you'll need to remove mutt, too |
| 17:29.38 | fsmithred | got knows what else |
| 17:29.46 | fsmithred | where the fuck did these packages come from? |
| 17:29.54 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: you should know mate! :D |
| 17:29.59 | blop | unable to locate package libgnutls-openssl30 |
| 17:30.04 | blop | mutt is removed |
| 17:30.07 | KatolaZ | blop: so it's not installer |
| 17:30.10 | KatolaZ | installed |
| 17:30.13 | fsmithred | they are not in jessie, jessie, ascii, stretch, buster, sid or ceres |
| 17:30.24 | KatolaZ | blop: as evident from apt-cache policy |
| 17:30.26 | blop | oh it's called libgnutls30 |
| 17:30.58 | blop | it wants to remove a lot of stuff, but i think i can do without it |
| 17:31.14 | blop | hmm including debootstrap |
| 17:31.14 | KatolaZ | blop: hold on mate |
| 17:31.22 | blop | ok |
| 17:31.24 | KatolaZ | removing stuff won't solve your problems automagically |
| 17:31.29 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 17:31.59 | KatolaZ | so let's start again |
| 17:32.12 | KatolaZ | blop: you just want to install the binary for gkrellm, right? |
| 17:32.14 | *** join/#devuan Levure (~quassel@131.170-201-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 17:32.28 | blop | binary, or later source |
| 17:32.46 | blop | i'd also like to help fsmithred fix up anything wrong with the image |
| 17:32.55 | KatolaZ | blop: one thing at a time |
| 17:33.08 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 17:33.26 | KatolaZ | so |
| 17:33.26 | blop | i don't need to do any work tonight :) |
| 17:33.35 | KatolaZ | apt-cache policy gkrellm |
| 17:34.11 | blop | http://termbin.com/c51u |
| 17:34.23 | KatolaZ | (there is a "please" before each newline, you just don't see it because your teminal is smart ;P) |
| 17:34.45 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 17:34.49 | KatolaZ | apt-get install -s gkrellm |
| 17:34.55 | KatolaZ | (note the "-s") |
| 17:35.13 | blop | same error: Depends: gnutls-openssl27 |
| 17:35.22 | KatolaZ | could you please paste it? |
| 17:35.26 | KatolaZ | the whole thing |
| 17:35.41 | blop | ok |
| 17:36.18 | blop | http://termbin.com/3de7 |
| 17:37.04 | KatolaZ | blop: is this the whole thing? |
| 17:37.05 | blop | apt-cache search gnutls shows libgnutls-openssl27 |
| 17:37.07 | blop | yes |
| 17:37.25 | KatolaZ | apt-cache libgnutls-openssl27 |
| 17:37.45 | blop | apt-cache search? |
| 17:38.05 | KatolaZ | apt-cache policy libgnutls-openssl27 |
| 17:38.41 | blop | http://termbin.com/d7a8 |
| 17:39.31 | KatolaZ | apt-get install libgnutls-openssl27 |
| 17:40.04 | blop | http://termbin.com/neuv |
| 17:40.42 | KatolaZ | apt-cache policy libgnutls30 |
| 17:40.50 | fsmithred | here's the full list of suspects: http://termbin.com/ca4h |
| 17:40.52 | KatolaZ | (you have a libgnutls30 from backports, almost surely) |
| 17:41.08 | fsmithred | no, I think it's an old version from ceres/sid |
| 17:41.10 | blop | http://termbin.com/hu8i |
| 17:41.22 | fsmithred | I see some versions in that list from unstable |
| 17:41.27 | KatolaZ | ok blop |
| 17:41.34 | Irrwahn | fsmithred: right, there should be no version 3.5.8-6 in any of ascci-* AFAICT |
| 17:41.40 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: how on earth sid went in there? :D |
| 17:41.42 | KatolaZ | blop: |
| 17:41.45 | fsmithred | that one is not in any repo now |
| 17:42.00 | KatolaZ | apt-get install libgnutls30=3.5.8-5+deb9u3 |
| 17:42.11 | KatolaZ | it will ask if you are sure you want to downgrade |
| 17:42.23 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: see, you were mixing repos mate ;P |
| 17:42.40 | fsmithred | how can I mix repos other than to add them to sources.list? |
| 17:42.59 | KatolaZ | puttong them in /etc/apt/sources.list.d |
| 17:43.03 | KatolaZ | ~putting |
| 17:43.14 | KatolaZ | blop: ^^^ |
| 17:43.21 | KatolaZ | apt-get install libgnutls30=3.5.8-5+deb9u3 |
| 17:43.21 | blop | succeeded |
| 17:43.23 | fsmithred | it's not in there |
| 17:43.25 | KatolaZ | ok |
| 17:43.30 | KatolaZ | blop: now install gkrellm |
| 17:43.32 | KatolaZ | and enjoy |
| 17:43.54 | fsmithred | you may want to copy that list I pasted, in case you run into other problems with versions |
| 17:43.54 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: must have been in backports then |
| 17:43.55 | blop | success! |
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| 17:44.25 | fsmithred | these packages don't have bpo in the version |
| 17:44.42 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: then they must come from ceres |
| 17:44.49 | KatolaZ | or from some other repo |
| 17:45.01 | KatolaZ | they must have come from somewhere, in the end :D |
| 17:45.04 | fsmithred | from a debootstrap install? |
| 17:45.47 | KatolaZ | fsmithred: irsii does not come with debootsrtap I guess... |
| 17:46.04 | KatolaZ | so dunno |
| 17:46.24 | fsmithred | I added packages, but used ascii repos and for kernel, used ascii-backports |
| 17:46.58 | blop | now to get alsa+snd working |
| 17:47.54 | blop | ty fsmithred KatolaZ |
| 17:47.57 | fsmithred | yw |
| 17:48.04 | fsmithred | I'm going to rebuild this one from scratch |
| 17:48.05 | KatolaZ | np blop |
| 17:48.11 | fsmithred | sorry about the trouble, blop |
| 17:48.26 | blop | oh no problem. here to do what i can to test. |
| 17:48.49 | blop | can also do another install later. have a free partition. |
| 17:48.57 | fsmithred | cool |
| 17:49.35 | fsmithred | I'm almost always logged in here, so ping me any time and I'll eventually get back to you |
| 17:56.08 | blop | trying new kernel on pi... bbs hopefully |
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| 21:09.40 | _abc_ | Good news for devuan too? https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/01/30/ubuntu_reverting_to_xorg_in_bionic_beaver/ |
| 21:09.50 | *** mode/#devuan [-o fsmithred] by ChanServ |
| 21:09.50 | _abc_ | Major distribution stops going the way of wayland |
| 21:11.00 | _abc_ | The way I see it, politically, rh was digging itself into future sales with wayland and some poettering emanations, making linux hosts much less remote-friendly. |
| 21:11.41 | fsmithred | omg, I could get in trouble with that release name |
| 21:12.02 | _abc_ | Look, it's not susanwaylandclub.com <nsfw>, right? |
| 21:13.11 | _abc_ | fsmithred: maybe I misunderstood, which release name? |
| 21:13.17 | _abc_ | bionic beaver? |
| 21:13.53 | _abc_ | on topic: in devuan jessie, is it safe-ish to switch to another window manager from the default? |
| 21:14.14 | fsmithred | yes, I think you understood |
| 21:14.32 | _abc_ | <cough> which one. The beaver or the wayland... susan... |
| 21:14.34 | fsmithred | you can install as many window managers and desktop environments as you want |
| 21:14.39 | fsmithred | as long as you don't want gnome |
| 21:15.02 | _abc_ | Okay, noted. kde is in there somewhere? kde4 is grotty but the current default window manager could use some minor polish |
| 21:15.10 | merzbow | openbox works fine, and is very light |
| 21:15.23 | _abc_ | I would like usable with few surprises. Light is not important |
| 21:15.41 | fsmithred | kde in jessie (I think) has some problems |
| 21:15.43 | _abc_ | Specifically, things like pressing the power button shortly means I really want it to shutdown, not ask me if I wanna. |
| 21:15.55 | _abc_ | Okay, so no kde. We'll find something more configurable |
| 21:15.58 | fsmithred | kde5 in ascii seems ok (with elogind) but I haven't used it much |
| 21:16.11 | fsmithred | and tde will install in jessie and work |
| 21:16.15 | _abc_ | Did you ever build the default wm for jessie from source on jessie? |
| 21:16.28 | fsmithred | no, I haven't build any wm |
| 21:16.44 | fsmithred | there are so many to choose from |
| 21:16.47 | _abc_ | this tde? |
| 21:16.49 | _abc_ | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity_Desktop_Environment |
| 21:16.53 | fsmithred | yes |
| 21:16.59 | _abc_ | is it in the package list? |
| 21:17.01 | fsmithred | fork of kde3.5 |
| 21:17.15 | fsmithred | no, go to trinity and follow directions for devuan |
| 21:17.18 | fsmithred | yes, devuan |
| 21:17.20 | _abc_ | ok |
| 21:17.33 | _abc_ | Oh, they have instructions for devuan? Respect. |
| 21:22.52 | fsmithred | S. Wayland is pretty tame. You must have a very strict workplace. |
| 21:24.31 | _abc_ | It's not from work, I stumbled into that place a long time ago, remebered (can't unsee) it |
| 21:24.49 | _abc_ | https://simson.net/ref/ugh.pdf fun, 360 pages of unix hater's handbook, it keeps growing. |
| 21:26.30 | _abc_ | The X humor begins at ~pp 161 |
| 21:27.25 | MinceR | wow, canonical doing actual work? |
| 21:27.41 | MinceR | or did they get some suckers at debian to maintain it for them? :> |
| 21:28.23 | _abc_ | MinceR: I think some ceo political type got fed up of not being able to access his work pc from a tablet while in a business "trip" with palm trees context |
| 21:28.28 | MinceR | :> |
| 21:28.43 | MinceR | if only all that energy was invested into making a better windowing system instead of randing in that book :> |
| 21:29.32 | _abc_ | MinceR: the good news is that, once Wayland is waylaid, that book of gripes will be all they have left. Xorg works fine, not without bugs and the occasional kick in the back side, but it works. |
| 21:30.45 | _abc_ | See stupidity pp 187 'Shell crash' -- wow did that guy get things wrong. |
| 21:31.13 | _abc_ | I think you don't even need to craft a fork bomb into cmd.exe, it just happens naturally as a part of normal operations |
| 21:31.31 | MinceR | why do they even use csh in the first place? |
| 21:31.48 | _abc_ | Because they can't crash the other shells for demo purposes? |
| 21:31.57 | MinceR | lol |
| 21:32.24 | MinceR | i guess they boot into windows after they're done bashing unix, then |
| 21:32.47 | _abc_ | That being said, :(){:;};: is an evergreen in bash. I don't think it's right as I wrote it there |
| 21:32.58 | _abc_ | MinceR: *if* they can |
| 21:33.18 | MinceR | that's fine -- if they can't, that's another thing to bash |
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| 21:58.17 | vivus | Is anybody using LXC on ascii? |
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| 22:09.28 | fsmithred | vivus, I'm not sure. It's been discussed here: https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/search/?q=lxc |
| 22:10.30 | vivus | I wanted to know if anybody has run a systemd image on devuan ? |
| 22:10.45 | _abc_ | ?? |
| 22:10.50 | ibanja_ | I am using lxc on ascii for about 2 months now. |
| 22:10.55 | vivus | eg. ubuntu 16.04 |
| 22:11.04 | vivus | ibanja_: what images are you using on it? |
| 22:11.05 | _abc_ | What is lxc again? |
| 22:11.05 | ibanja_ | I have an asterisk server running centos6 as my container |
| 22:12.14 | ibanja_ | I also have a gentoo image installed |
| 22:12.40 | vivus | ibanja_: if it isn't too much to ask, can you attempt running ubuntu 14.04 on your Devuan machine via LXC? |
| 22:13.21 | ibanja_ | sure... give me a few minutes and I will get back to you |
| 22:14.16 | vivus | np ibanja_ . take your time. no rush |
| 22:16.03 | ibanja_ | Just to make sure, that would be ubuntu trusty, correct? |
| 22:17.37 | ibanja_ | I just installed ubuntu trusty amd64 and got "lxc_attach: 742 Failed to get init pid." |
| 22:18.17 | vivus | ibanja_: you started it and got that error whilst attempting to attach it? |
| 22:18.28 | ibanja_ | yes |
| 22:18.46 | ibanja_ | nevermind |
| 22:18.58 | vivus | worked? |
| 22:18.59 | ibanja_ | I attached fine... forgot to start it |
| 22:19.10 | vivus | aah yes, suspected that might be the issue |
| 22:20.18 | ibanja_ | networking seems to be working... what problems were you having? |
| 22:20.51 | vivus | ibanja_: I just wanted to see if systemd-based containers work, so that I can migrate some of my containers over and they will still work (and not break) |
| 22:22.53 | ibanja_ | ok... I was going to migrate a number of containers over from debian stretch and was also wondering if anyone else was having success with the lxc containers... so far I have been fine. I use the asterisk server as my office phone. |
| 22:24.01 | vivus | ibanja_: what do you use your Debian containers for? |
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| 22:26.01 | ibanja_ | I have a wiki, asterisk, debian repo for my private scripts, and I am going to containerize my cloud--moving from owncloud to nextcloud |
| 22:26.18 | ibanja_ | and an xmmp server |
| 22:27.05 | vivus | interesting. thanks for checking for me ibanja_ ! I shall update you on my migration of the containers |
| 22:29.41 | ibanja_ | no problem... hope your migration goes smoothly. |
| 22:31.46 | vivus | ty |
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| 22:42.58 | Dwarf | Alrighty so I installed devuan in a chroot. but I'm getting this errors when running apt update: W: GPG error: http://auto.mirror.devuan.org jessie InRelease: The following signatures couldn't be verified because the public key is not available: NO_PUBKEY 94532124541922FB |
| 22:43.07 | Dwarf | Any idea what to install to fix that |
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| 22:50.02 | blinkdog | gpg --recv-keys 94532124541922FB |
| 22:54.12 | KatolaZ | Dwarf: just apt-get install devuan-keyring |
| 22:56.38 | Dwarf | That's the one I was looking for. Thanks KatolaZ. |
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| 23:05.31 | ibanja_ | Has anyone else found that jessie-backports causes quit a few dependency problems? |
| 23:05.58 | fsmithred | ibanja_, that might depend on how many packages from backports you try to install |
| 23:06.16 | fsmithred | what problems are you running into? |
| 23:06.35 | ibanja_ | I get messages such as: Depends: libturbojpeg0 (>= 1.4.0) but it is not installable |
| 23:06.49 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: example please |
| 23:07.29 | fsmithred | that doesn't seem to be in jessie |
| 23:07.42 | fsmithred | 1:1.5.1-2 is in ascii |
| 23:08.02 | KatolaZ | which is > 1.4.0 |
| 23:08.06 | KatolaZ | so the dep is satisfied |
| 23:08.08 | KatolaZ | .... |
| 23:08.14 | KatolaZ | oh |
| 23:08.15 | KatolaZ | in ascii |
| 23:08.18 | fsmithred | yeah |
| 23:08.33 | fsmithred | ibanja_, what are you installing that wants it? |
| 23:09.15 | ibanja_ | this time it was xpra, but I have been running into it a lot lately. I have been assuming it was the back-ports. |
| 23:09.33 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: are you installing it from a devuan repo? |
| 23:09.49 | KatolaZ | that's pretty strange |
| 23:09.56 | KatolaZ | since backports are normally consistent |
| 23:10.57 | ibanja_ | yes, a devuan repo and it was a fresh devuan install... and yes I thought it was strange. I have used back-ports with no problems befoer |
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| 23:11.11 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: precise example please? |
| 23:12.11 | fsmithred | that lib doesn't show up as a dep for xpra here |
| 23:13.10 | fsmithred | n |
| 23:13.11 | ibanja_ | sudo apt-get --no-install-recommends install xpra |
| 23:13.14 | ibanja_ | The following packages have unmet dependencies: |
| 23:13.14 | ibanja_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:13.14 | ibanja_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:13.14 | ibanja_ | E: Unable to correct problems, you have held broken packages. |
| 23:13.34 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: you are mixing repos mate |
| 23:13.38 | KatolaZ | (probably?) |
| 23:13.51 | KatolaZ | apt-cache policy xpra |
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| 23:14.11 | ibanja_ | you are right, I don't see it as a dependency... |
| 23:14.17 | KatolaZ | apt-cache policy xpra |
| 23:16.04 | fsmithred | is aptitude installed? |
| 23:16.46 | fsmithred | and can you copy/paste a command I give you? |
| 23:18.08 | ibanja_ | ok... thanks, apt-cache policy gave a huge list of options which told me it's not back-ports... It is a debian repo from xpra... I disabled it, now it installs |
| 23:18.24 | KatolaZ | .... |
| 23:18.26 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 23:18.52 | ibanja_ | The repo works on my ascii install, but not on this jessie install. Interesting. |
| 23:18.53 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: one thing is almost sure in De??an: that the repos of a stable/oldstable distro are always consistent |
| 23:19.01 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 23:19.14 | fsmithred | yeah, debian stable is same as ascii, not jessie |
| 23:19.27 | TomTheDragon | What build system does Devuan use? Is it the same as Debian, the wanna-build/sbuild/etc? |
| 23:19.35 | KatolaZ | no TomTheDragon |
| 23:19.42 | KatolaZ | we have a ci based on jenkins |
| 23:19.52 | ibanja_ | OK, that makes sense... |
| 23:20.15 | TomTheDragon | KatolaZ: hmm, interesting... Am trying to decide whether to track Debian or Devuan with a 486/586 port. |
| 23:21.34 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: Debian abandoned 586 long ago... |
| 23:21.42 | TomTheDragon | KatolaZ: I think in 2016 |
| 23:22.01 | KatolaZ | oh, it looked more remote ;) |
| 23:22.14 | TomTheDragon | But the baseline bump actually happens in stretch, keyed on the release name in the gcc rules file. |
| 23:22.44 | TomTheDragon | 486 fell out of support a long while ago, but likely due to no tests. I only have 586 box to test with ;) |
| 23:23.28 | KatolaZ | I still must have a 486 board somewhere, but it's not in working order I guess :D |
| 23:24.37 | TomTheDragon | ah, I see... it's keyed on the debian release in an inverse way |
| 23:25.07 | TomTheDragon | if the release is etch, lenny it's 486. if squeeze, wheezy, or jessie, it's i586. else it's i686 |
| 23:26.12 | TomTheDragon | and debian, is on an else block of "Ubuntu"... so Devuan would be treated as debian (unless the source was changed) |
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| 23:26.39 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: I guess we haven't forked gcc... |
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| 23:28.37 | TomTheDragon | KatolaZ: It's not really an issue unless you want to avoid bumping the baseline |
| 23:28.58 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: I guess I am not following |
| 23:29.58 | TomTheDragon | I'm not entirely sure what you meant by not forking gcc |
| 23:30.54 | ibanja_ | KatolaZ: concerning the xpra repo. How likely am I to run into a problem when using an xpra debian-stretch repo with devuan-ascii? |
| 23:31.08 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: who knows? |
| 23:31.09 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 23:31.09 | TomTheDragon | And I was basically saying it doesn't really matter... after jessie (in debian) the gcc rules specify i686 architecture. So it doesn't really matter. |
| 23:31.32 | ibanja_ | :) right |
| 23:31.34 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: in theory it's not a good idea to mix devuan and debian repos |
| 23:31.50 | KatolaZ | in practice, if you are sure that that repo includes only xpra packages |
| 23:31.54 | KatolaZ | and nothing else |
| 23:31.59 | KatolaZ | then you should be able to use it |
| 23:32.25 | KatolaZ | unless xpra (that I don't have a clue what is) wants systemd-related stuff |
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| 23:33.10 | ibanja_ | right... I guess it's a matter of checking out the package and the dependencies it needs and taking a shot. |
| 23:33.11 | ibanja_ | thnks |
| 23:33.29 | TomTheDragon | basically some kind of desktop forwarding. |
| 23:33.38 | KatolaZ | ibanja_: I would in any case pin external repos to 100 |
| 23:34.11 | Criggie | abc: totally - when I restored my user homedir I got twm back. Works perfectly for me |
| 23:35.45 | TomTheDragon | twm? I remember I used to use that. |
| 23:35.55 | ibanja_ | good point, pinning... BTW xpra is used to run X programs from a remote machine. The dependencies seem to be a lot of python modules. I don't think it will have any systemd-less issues, but time will tell. . |
| 23:36.13 | KatolaZ | thanks ibanja_ |
| 23:36.27 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 23:36.32 | KatolaZ | I have learned something |
| 23:36.55 | ibanja_ | Me too... I think using --no-install-recommends and pinning would cut down on possibility of issues. |
| 23:36.56 | KatolaZ | (btw, ssh -X should be enough for that, right?) |
| 23:37.17 | KatolaZ | (I mean for running remote X applications...) |
| 23:37.48 | ibanja_ | yes ssh -X works well, but xpra can be used to forward a whole session. |
| 23:37.53 | TomTheDragon | You don't want to use it just for running remote applications, really. |
| 23:38.20 | TomTheDragon | But if you want persistent remote applications, and access them from various machines like GNU screen for pty, it can be useful |
| 23:38.48 | TomTheDragon | (for me, I really only care about keeping things like servers, etc running, which are either daemons or in screen sessions) |
| 23:38.52 | ibanja_ | I am trying to set up s computer for a conference type situation that I can control from my desktop and this allows that as well. |
| 23:39.52 | ibanja_ | I mean control a desktop from my laptop. |
| 23:40.22 | ibanja_ | I am in the playing with it stage now |
| 23:40.25 | ibanja_ | :) |
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| 23:43.20 | g4570n | !ping |
| 23:43.20 | infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss |
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| 23:51.30 | TomTheDragon | KatolaZ: would it be a trivial exercise to fire up a Jenkins CI to build Devuan? Just curious. |
| 23:51.50 | TomTheDragon | with say, alternative configuration of a few packages |
| 23:52.10 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: it's not sraightforward |
| 23:52.23 | KatolaZ | the problem is not just jenkins |
| 23:52.28 | TomTheDragon | ah, so just as straightforward as Debian |
| 23:52.29 | KatolaZ | but the dak install behind it |
| 23:53.02 | KatolaZ | which is a bit of a hairball |
| 23:53.23 | TomTheDragon | yep, as I've heard. I've kind of avoided dak for my experimentation, though I'm trying to rebuild debian itself |
| 23:53.28 | *** join/#devuan blinkdog (~blinkdog@devuan/developer/blinkdog) |
| 23:53.55 | TomTheDragon | just using reprepro and some ksh/perl (from debian ports guys) |
| 23:53.58 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: why, if I can ask? |
| 23:54.34 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 23:54.47 | TomTheDragon | targeting lower baseline for x86 |
| 23:56.15 | KatolaZ | oh I see |
| 23:56.25 | KatolaZ | that would be cool |
| 23:56.34 | KatolaZ | but maybe too much of a mess |
| 23:56.35 | KatolaZ | I mean |
| 23:56.45 | KatolaZ | there is little point into compiling KDE for a 486 |
| 23:56.55 | TomTheDragon | KDE5, haha. yeah |
| 23:57.12 | KatolaZ | I remember KDE 1 was already a sluggish slug on a Pentium 1 |
| 23:57.14 | KatolaZ | ... |
| 23:57.29 | TomTheDragon | On 586, 3.5 (TDE) is almost passable |
| 23:57.32 | KatolaZ | I think I didn't run anything more than fvwm2 on a 486 |
| 23:57.38 | *** join/#devuan g4570n (~g4570n@unaffiliated/g4570n) |
| 23:57.42 | KatolaZ | :) |
| 23:58.35 | TomTheDragon | Yeah, I might be able to get away with a subset of packages. But that's some work in itself, selecting them all. |
| 23:58.58 | KatolaZ | TomTheDragon: jessie has some 42K packages |
| 23:59.03 | KatolaZ | ascii has 52K+ |
| 23:59.17 | KatolaZ | source packages are in the region of 30K, IIRC |
| 23:59.32 | TomTheDragon | Yeah, a lot of packages (though not sure how many are noarch) |
| 23:59.44 | KatolaZ | you mean "all" |
| 23:59.54 | TomTheDragon | yeah, all. not any. |
