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01:24.47 | *** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/ |
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05:34.33 | NewGnuGuy | Is there any difference between Ubuntu's sudo setup and the setup generated by leaving the root password blank during the install of Debian/Devuan? |
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10:14.25 | coyote | what if debian is a systemd fork of devuan? |
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11:53.43 | jonadab | I consider "Debian" to be the historical name for versions of Devuan prior to jessie. |
11:54.45 | jonadab | Sort of like how old versions of Solaris were called SunOS. |
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15:29.57 | Guest81358 | I changed my debian stretch sources to devuan on a new install |
15:30.00 | Guest81358 | and updated + upgraded |
15:30.04 | Guest81358 | now im faced with this |
15:30.04 | Guest81358 | ⤠Removing linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 You are running a kernel (version 4.9.0-5-amd64) and attempting to remove the same version. This can make the system unbootable as it will remove /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-5-amd64 and all modules under the directory /lib/modules/4.9.0-5-amd64. This can only be fixed with a copy of the kernel image and the corresponding modules. It is highly recommended to abort the kernel removal unless you ar |
15:30.04 | Guest81358 | e prepared to fix the system after removal. Abort kernel removal? <Yes> <No> ââ |
15:30.11 | Guest81358 | what should i do? |
15:30.22 | Guest81358 | -devuan ascii |
15:30.42 | Guest81358 | if i hit no it will exit the install |
15:30.54 | Guest81358 | yes doesn't sound smart |
15:33.56 | KatolaZ | Guest81358: ? |
15:34.07 | KatolaZ | is a kernel among the packages to be installed? |
15:34.28 | KatolaZ | (I guess the answer is *yes*) |
15:34.31 | nemo | huh. I'm surprised it would remove existing kernels. normally that has to be done separately just in case |
15:34.49 | KatolaZ | I am surprised as well, tbh |
15:35.57 | gnarface | hmmm |
15:36.05 | gnarface | i've seen this once before but i can't remember what i did to cause it |
15:36.28 | nemo | KatolaZ: on subject of ascii - would you consider it stable enough to upgrade to on random user's machine? |
15:39.09 | coyote | Guest81358, how is it going? |
15:41.14 | gnarface | Guest81358: i forget exactly why it's doing that (maybe something to do with a repackaged kernel?) but i think if you just remove linux-image-amd64 it will stop trying to automatically update your kernels. |
15:41.35 | gnarface | Guest81358: alternately, attempt to upgrade just that kernel version *first* |
15:42.29 | gnarface | Guest81358: i'm almost certain that if you let it remove 4.9 it will really leave you with an unbootable system as warned. and i don't know for sure if you can just manually re-install it before rebooting or not. |
15:44.53 | Guest81358 | im back |
15:44.59 | Guest81358 | i didn't do anything yet |
15:45.18 | Guest81358 | alright so select yes? |
15:45.43 | coyote | can you send us the output of apt-get? |
15:46.00 | coyote | you said that it wants to remove linux? |
15:47.42 | fsmithred | linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 is in ascii-proposed-updates and ascii-security. The default kernel is linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64 |
15:48.18 | coyote | so, you can choose yes |
15:48.20 | fsmithred | apt-get install linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 |
15:48.26 | fsmithred | should fix it |
15:48.35 | coyote | but i would recommend to backup your system |
15:49.27 | Guest81358 | doing that now thank |
15:49.27 | Guest81358 | -s |
15:49.31 | Guest81358 | thanks fsmithred |
15:49.35 | fsmithred | yw |
15:49.58 | fsmithred | we should probably move that kernel into ascii main |
15:50.00 | Guest81358 | coyote: good idea i backed it up |
15:50.33 | coyote | so, you can do it |
15:50.46 | fsmithred | Guest81358, do you have ascii-security enabled in sources? |
15:51.35 | Guest81358 | https://pastebin.com/U5P1ESU5 |
15:52.29 | fsmithred | ok |
15:53.14 | coyote | ok |
15:53.20 | coyote | what's http://packages.devuan.org ? |
15:53.24 | fsmithred | apt should tell you that the package is set to manually installed |
15:53.35 | fsmithred | coyote, that's where the mirrors point |
15:53.43 | fsmithred | auto.mirror |
15:53.47 | coyote | ok |
15:53.51 | fsmithred | or XX.mirror |
15:53.55 | djph | looks like the core package repo |
15:54.06 | coyote | Guest81358, yes, it's correct |
15:54.23 | fsmithred | I should say that's what the mirrors are reflecting |
15:55.02 | fsmithred | you could change them all to pkgmaster.devuan.org. That updates more often |
15:55.50 | coyote | i also think about upgrading to ascii |
15:56.04 | coyote | i am* |
15:56.31 | Guest81358 | https://i.imgur.com/eKG0P7b.png |
15:56.37 | Guest81358 | i couldn't copy paste |
15:56.43 | Guest81358 | this is my droplet from my digitalocean console |
15:56.58 | Guest81358 | after updating and upgrading + dist-upgrade |
15:57.28 | Guest81358 | wasn't able to ssh |
15:58.19 | coyote | emm, strangely |
15:58.35 | coyote | i'm not expert in devuan, so now i can't help you |
15:59.06 | fsmithred | you normally log in as user or root? |
15:59.11 | Guest81358 | root |
15:59.14 | Guest81358 | it's via console |
15:59.26 | Guest81358 | oh i can login via either |
15:59.47 | fsmithred | the settings for root have changed, that's why I asked. |
15:59.55 | Guest81358 | ah |
16:00.04 | fsmithred | although I think it's just a change in wording |
16:00.07 | Guest81358 | what's with the systemd message? |
16:00.20 | fsmithred | you'll have to remove systemd when you're finished with the upgrade |
16:01.32 | Guest81358 | thanks i'll do that now |
16:01.55 | fsmithred | PermitRootLogin without password has changed to PermitRootLogin prohibit-password |
16:02.09 | fsmithred | the former means "with auth keys only" |
16:02.18 | fsmithred | I assume the latter means the same |
16:02.53 | fsmithred | but should probably check man sshd_config to be sure |
16:03.43 | fsmithred | If this option is set to prohibit-password or without-password, password and keyboard-interactive authenâ |
16:03.43 | fsmithred | <PROTECTED> |
16:04.47 | Guest81358 | i need to disable root ssh access anyway |
16:05.20 | fsmithred | good idea |
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16:18.08 | Guest81358 | i wonder if it changed the ssh port on upgrade |
16:18.19 | Guest81358 | i was using a nonstandard port maybe it overwrote the cfg |
16:18.22 | Guest81358 | trying to figure this out still |
16:18.24 | fsmithred | maybe |
16:18.41 | fsmithred | it should have asked if you wanted to keep the old config file or install the new one |
16:18.45 | Guest81358 | yeah it didnt |
16:18.48 | fsmithred | if you chos |
16:18.50 | fsmithred | oh |
16:18.56 | fsmithred | try 22 |
16:19.50 | Guest81358 | nope it didnt |
16:19.57 | Guest81358 | hmm |
16:20.03 | Guest81358 | the service is running |
16:20.06 | Guest81358 | port is opened |
16:20.29 | Guest81358 | ssh is tcp right? |
16:20.33 | fsmithred | yes |
16:21.28 | Guest81358 | ah i see whats going on |
16:21.31 | Guest81358 | i cant even ping google.com |
16:21.41 | Guest81358 | temp failure in name resolution |
16:21.59 | Guest81358 | yeah apt-get update fails too |
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16:22.51 | fsmithred | check /etc/resolv.conf |
16:24.16 | fsmithred | ping 8.8.8.8 |
16:25.05 | Guest81358 | connect: network is unreachable |
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16:25.18 | Guest81358 | not sure why upgrading would cause issues |
16:25.26 | fsmithred | ifconfig |
16:25.29 | fsmithred | or ip a |
16:26.28 | Guest81358 | i just see lo with 127.0.0.1 |
16:26.31 | Guest81358 | no external ip |
16:28.00 | fsmithred | I assume this is a wired connection |
16:28.18 | fsmithred | I was expecting the interface name to change, not that it would be gone |
16:28.50 | Guest81358 | ah here we go |
16:28.52 | fsmithred | meanwhile, you're in an ssh session on this box? |
16:28.54 | Guest81358 | i did service networking restart |
16:29.03 | fsmithred | good |
16:29.03 | Guest81358 | i'm in a virtualconsole on digitalocean not sure how it works |
16:29.06 | Guest81358 | its not ssh |
16:29.10 | fsmithred | oh, ok |
16:29.32 | fsmithred | you have eth0 or enp-blah? |
16:29.55 | Guest81358 | https://i.imgur.com/zmVVAsO.png |
16:30.00 | Guest81358 | i have nothing now |
16:30.03 | Guest81358 | no idea what happened |
16:30.20 | Guest81358 | i would pastebin if i could |
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16:31.05 | fsmithred | you have eth0 listed in /etc/network/interfaces? |
16:31.16 | Guest81358 | https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/problem-with-updating-kernel-eth0-now-missing |
16:31.22 | Guest81358 | "Edited /etc/network/interfaces and changed eth0 to ens3 and viola!, ifup ens3 worked. |
16:31.22 | Guest81358 | " |
16:31.26 | Guest81358 | maybe this will work |
16:32.06 | fsmithred | so, you have ens3 in the interfaces file? |
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19:11.57 | mmaglis | hi, how can I use xorg as non-root user in ascii? I have issues after migrating from Debian stretch following these instructions: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii |
19:13.50 | gnarface | you probably also need to add yourself to the "video" and "input" groups |
19:14.06 | mmaglis | let me check this. Thanks |
19:14.17 | gnarface | or you may need to install the xserver-xorg-legacy package (depending on video driver) |
19:14.44 | gnarface | if you had any xorg.conf customizations, make sure they carried over |
19:17.01 | mmaglis | I had no xorg.conf, xserver-xorg-legacy was installed. I had group video but not input. I will test it now. |
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19:17.50 | gnarface | mmaglis: it works fine with root but not as other users? usually that means a permissions error, but i remember some weird corner cases, too... can you pastebin the Xorg.0.log? |
19:18.36 | mmaglis | It works as root. I just tested and it now works for non-root user. It was the missign group input. Thanks everyone! |
19:18.55 | gnarface | no problem |
19:20.20 | gnarface | it's a common tripping point; systemd just automatically gives permission to all devices to any physically local logged-in console user. they weren't given permission to do that though, and generations of more experienced coders and sysadmins before them always considered this a huge security hole. |
19:21.26 | gnarface | unfortunately this means that now, when switching back, it looks like a bunch of stuff gets broken, and there's a technical deficit |
19:22.17 | mmaglis | Perhaps, someone needs to update the migration page to add this info. |
19:22.27 | gnarface | that's probably true |
19:28.25 | golinux | mmaglis: Are you running a DE? |
19:29.28 | mmaglis | I am running either openbox or i3 now. |
19:30.10 | golinux | Do you log in with Slim? |
19:30.23 | golinux | How do you login? |
19:30.27 | mmaglis | no. I startx from console. |
19:30.49 | golinux | That's the problem. You need a login manager |
19:31.13 | golinux | in ascii |
19:31.41 | mmaglis | adding input group to my non-root user, I can use xorg with startx now. |
19:31.56 | mmaglis | why do I need a login manager with ascii? |
19:32.35 | golinux | Something changed in ascii with regard to permissions |
19:33.09 | golinux | Not sure of the details but it's been discussed several times. |
19:33.14 | mmaglis | I just migrated to ascii from debian stretch. I have not yet tested all configuration options. |
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19:36.38 | golinux | is trying to find some references |
19:37.45 | golinux | Here you go: |
19:37.49 | golinux | - install xserver-xorg-legacy |
19:37.49 | golinux | - [if no display manager] add needs_root_rights=yes to |
19:37.49 | golinux | /etc/X11/Xwrapper.config |
19:38.09 | golinux | https://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170917.174900.a704708a.en.html |
19:39.51 | mmaglis | my Xwrapper.config has allowed_users=console |
19:40.43 | mmaglis | I will keep a note of this when I try a login manager later. |
19:42.12 | mmaglis | I came late to the systemd party. I was busy with life/work and I was moved to systemd by debian "upgrades". The default debian systemd/gnome system was ok for occasional/casual use. As soon as I started building "non-debian-default" systems, I got hit with various systemd "features" that I had to switch to devuan. |
19:42.21 | Guest81358 | fsmithred: the issue was the kernel |
19:42.30 | Guest81358 | no idea why it caused an issue with digitalocean |
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22:09.18 | NewGnuGuy | Is there any difference between Ubuntu's sudo setup and the setup generated by leaving the root password blank during the install of Debian/Devuan? |
22:09.57 | nacelle | obviously. why? |
22:10.21 | nacelle | you've been asking this question for days |
22:10.27 | nacelle | poke at it already |
22:10.50 | fsmithred | I second that |
22:11.32 | fsmithred | um, instead of leaving it blank, answer "no" when asked if you want a root account |
22:12.01 | fsmithred | or do both and tell us if they are the same or not |
22:12.17 | NewGnuGuy | I literally have only asked this question once before |
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22:14.07 | gnarface | i'm not sure it even installs sudo by default... but i think that the config file is different |
22:14.58 | gnarface | if you're the only person ever using the machine though, you don't really need it |
22:15.22 | NewGnuGuy | "it" being... |
22:15.29 | NewGnuGuy | ? |
22:15.29 | gnarface | sudo |
22:15.32 | gnarface | you can use su instead |
22:15.52 | gnarface | works differently, but does the same thing essentially |
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22:17.14 | fsmithred | I find that using su is easier than sudo. If I need admin rights, I usually need to use more than a single command. |
22:18.21 | NewGnuGuy | fsmithred: sudo -i |
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22:18.46 | fsmithred | counting the space, that's five more characters to type |
22:19.17 | gnarface | you can use su -c for one-liners too |
22:19.31 | fsmithred | I do sometimes set up sudo with no password for shutdown and reboot |
22:20.43 | fsmithred | and I would never recommend taking away the user's choice of which way to go |
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22:33.06 | nacelle | some of the bsd's dont even have sudo |
22:33.10 | nacelle | (openbsd, etc.) |
22:33.16 | nacelle | you have to get it from ports if you really want it |
22:33.29 | nacelle | (they have "doas" and su) |
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