IRC log for #devuan on 20180129

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01:24.47*** topic/#devuan is Recent (2017-05-25): Jessie 1.0.0 stable release http://ur1.ca/qxaa5 || This is the Devuan https://devuan.org/ discussion channel (logged at https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan - with useful 'search') | Please take off-topic conversation to #debianfork | /msg chanserv info #devuan | !listkeys #devuan <foo> | Devuan Forum: https://dev1galaxy.org/
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05:34.33NewGnuGuyIs there any difference between Ubuntu's sudo setup and the setup generated by leaving the root password blank during the install of Debian/Devuan?
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10:14.25coyotewhat if debian is a systemd fork of devuan?
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11:53.43jonadabI consider "Debian" to be the historical name for versions of Devuan prior to jessie.
11:54.45jonadabSort of like how old versions of Solaris were called SunOS.
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15:29.57Guest81358I changed my debian stretch sources to devuan on a new install
15:30.00Guest81358and updated + upgraded
15:30.04Guest81358now im faced with this
15:30.04Guest81358┤ Removing linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 You are running a kernel (version 4.9.0-5-amd64) and attempting to remove the same version. This can make the system unbootable as it will remove /boot/vmlinuz-4.9.0-5-amd64 and all modules under the directory /lib/modules/4.9.0-5-amd64. This can only be fixed with a copy of the kernel image and the corresponding modules. It is highly recommended to abort the kernel removal unless you ar
15:30.04Guest81358e prepared to fix the system after removal. Abort kernel removal? <Yes> <No> └┘
15:30.11Guest81358what should i do?
15:30.22Guest81358-devuan ascii
15:30.42Guest81358if i hit no it will exit the install
15:30.54Guest81358yes doesn't sound smart
15:33.56KatolaZGuest81358: ?
15:34.07KatolaZis a kernel among the packages to be installed?
15:34.28KatolaZ(I guess the answer is *yes*)
15:34.31nemohuh. I'm surprised it would remove existing kernels. normally that has to be done separately just in case
15:34.49KatolaZI am surprised as well, tbh
15:35.57gnarfacehmmm
15:36.05gnarfacei've seen this once before but i can't remember what i did to cause it
15:36.28nemoKatolaZ: on subject of ascii - would you consider it stable enough to upgrade to on random user's machine?
15:39.09coyoteGuest81358, how is it going?
15:41.14gnarfaceGuest81358: i forget exactly why it's doing that (maybe something to do with a repackaged kernel?) but i think if you just remove linux-image-amd64 it will stop trying to automatically update your kernels.
15:41.35gnarfaceGuest81358: alternately, attempt to upgrade just that kernel version *first*
15:42.29gnarfaceGuest81358: i'm almost certain that if you let it remove 4.9 it will really leave you with an unbootable system as warned.  and i don't know for sure if you can just manually re-install it before rebooting or not.
15:44.53Guest81358im back
15:44.59Guest81358i didn't do anything yet
15:45.18Guest81358alright so select yes?
15:45.43coyotecan you send us the output of apt-get?
15:46.00coyoteyou said that it wants to remove linux?
15:47.42fsmithredlinux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64 is in ascii-proposed-updates and ascii-security. The default kernel is linux-image-4.9.0-4-amd64
15:48.18coyoteso, you can choose yes
15:48.20fsmithredapt-get install linux-image-4.9.0-5-amd64
15:48.26fsmithredshould fix it
15:48.35coyotebut i would recommend to backup your system
15:49.27Guest81358doing that now thank
15:49.27Guest81358-s
15:49.31Guest81358thanks fsmithred
15:49.35fsmithredyw
15:49.58fsmithredwe should probably move that kernel into ascii main
15:50.00Guest81358coyote: good idea i backed it up
15:50.33coyoteso, you can do it
15:50.46fsmithredGuest81358, do you have ascii-security enabled in sources?
15:51.35Guest81358https://pastebin.com/U5P1ESU5
15:52.29fsmithredok
15:53.14coyoteok
15:53.20coyotewhat's http://packages.devuan.org ?
15:53.24fsmithredapt should tell you that the package is set to manually installed
15:53.35fsmithredcoyote, that's where the mirrors point
15:53.43fsmithredauto.mirror
15:53.47coyoteok
15:53.51fsmithredor XX.mirror
15:53.55djphlooks like the core package repo
15:54.06coyoteGuest81358, yes, it's correct
15:54.23fsmithredI should say that's what the mirrors are reflecting
15:55.02fsmithredyou could change them all to pkgmaster.devuan.org. That updates more often
15:55.50coyotei also think about upgrading to ascii
15:56.04coyotei am*
15:56.31Guest81358https://i.imgur.com/eKG0P7b.png
15:56.37Guest81358i couldn't copy paste
15:56.43Guest81358this is my droplet from my digitalocean console
15:56.58Guest81358after updating and upgrading + dist-upgrade
15:57.28Guest81358wasn't able to ssh
15:58.19coyoteemm, strangely
15:58.35coyotei'm not expert in devuan, so now i can't help you
15:59.06fsmithredyou normally log in as user or root?
15:59.11Guest81358root
15:59.14Guest81358it's via console
15:59.26Guest81358oh i can login via either
15:59.47fsmithredthe settings for root have changed, that's why I asked.
15:59.55Guest81358ah
16:00.04fsmithredalthough I think it's just a change in wording
16:00.07Guest81358what's with the systemd message?
16:00.20fsmithredyou'll have to remove systemd when you're finished with the upgrade
16:01.32Guest81358thanks i'll do that now
16:01.55fsmithredPermitRootLogin without password    has changed to  PermitRootLogin prohibit-password
16:02.09fsmithredthe former means "with auth keys only"
16:02.18fsmithredI assume the latter means the same
16:02.53fsmithredbut should probably check man sshd_config to be sure
16:03.43fsmithredIf this option is set to prohibit-password or without-password, password and keyboard-interactive authen‐
16:03.43fsmithred<PROTECTED>
16:04.47Guest81358i need to disable root ssh access anyway
16:05.20fsmithredgood idea
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16:18.08Guest81358i wonder if it changed the ssh port on upgrade
16:18.19Guest81358i was using a nonstandard port maybe it overwrote the cfg
16:18.22Guest81358trying to figure this out still
16:18.24fsmithredmaybe
16:18.41fsmithredit should have asked if you wanted to keep the old config file or install the new one
16:18.45Guest81358yeah it didnt
16:18.48fsmithredif you chos
16:18.50fsmithredoh
16:18.56fsmithredtry 22
16:19.50Guest81358nope it didnt
16:19.57Guest81358hmm
16:20.03Guest81358the service is running
16:20.06Guest81358port is opened
16:20.29Guest81358ssh is tcp right?
16:20.33fsmithredyes
16:21.28Guest81358ah i see whats going on
16:21.31Guest81358i cant even ping google.com
16:21.41Guest81358temp failure in name resolution
16:21.59Guest81358yeah apt-get update fails too
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16:22.51fsmithredcheck /etc/resolv.conf
16:24.16fsmithredping 8.8.8.8
16:25.05Guest81358connect: network is unreachable
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16:25.18Guest81358not sure why upgrading would cause issues
16:25.26fsmithredifconfig
16:25.29fsmithredor ip a
16:26.28Guest81358i just see lo with 127.0.0.1
16:26.31Guest81358no external ip
16:28.00fsmithredI assume this is a wired connection
16:28.18fsmithredI was expecting the interface name to change, not that it would be gone
16:28.50Guest81358ah here we go
16:28.52fsmithredmeanwhile, you're in an ssh session on this box?
16:28.54Guest81358i did service networking restart
16:29.03fsmithredgood
16:29.03Guest81358i'm in a virtualconsole on digitalocean not sure how it works
16:29.06Guest81358its not ssh
16:29.10fsmithredoh, ok
16:29.32fsmithredyou have eth0 or enp-blah?
16:29.55Guest81358https://i.imgur.com/zmVVAsO.png
16:30.00Guest81358i have nothing now
16:30.03Guest81358no idea what happened
16:30.20Guest81358i would pastebin if i could
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16:31.05fsmithredyou have eth0 listed in /etc/network/interfaces?
16:31.16Guest81358https://www.digitalocean.com/community/questions/problem-with-updating-kernel-eth0-now-missing
16:31.22Guest81358"Edited /etc/network/interfaces and changed eth0 to ens3 and viola!, ifup ens3 worked.
16:31.22Guest81358"
16:31.26Guest81358maybe this will work
16:32.06fsmithredso, you have ens3 in the interfaces file?
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19:11.57mmaglishi, how can I use xorg as non-root user in ascii? I have issues after migrating from Debian stretch following these instructions: https://devuan.org/os/documentation/dev1fanboy/migrate-to-ascii
19:13.50gnarfaceyou probably also need to add yourself to the "video" and "input" groups
19:14.06mmaglislet me check this. Thanks
19:14.17gnarfaceor you may need to install the xserver-xorg-legacy package (depending on video driver)
19:14.44gnarfaceif you had any xorg.conf customizations, make sure they carried over
19:17.01mmaglisI had no xorg.conf, xserver-xorg-legacy was installed. I had group video but not input. I will test it now.
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19:17.50gnarfacemmaglis: it works fine with root but not as other users?  usually that means a permissions error, but i remember some weird corner cases, too...   can you pastebin the Xorg.0.log?
19:18.36mmaglisIt works as root. I just tested and it now works for non-root user. It was the missign group input. Thanks everyone!
19:18.55gnarfaceno problem
19:20.20gnarfaceit's a common tripping point; systemd just automatically gives permission to all devices to any physically local logged-in console user.  they weren't given permission to do that though, and generations of more experienced coders and sysadmins before them always considered this a huge security hole.
19:21.26gnarfaceunfortunately this means that now, when switching back, it looks like a bunch of stuff gets broken, and there's a technical deficit
19:22.17mmaglisPerhaps, someone needs to update the migration page to add this info.
19:22.27gnarfacethat's probably true
19:28.25golinuxmmaglis: Are you running a DE?
19:29.28mmaglisI am running either openbox or i3 now.
19:30.10golinuxDo you log in with Slim?
19:30.23golinuxHow do you login?
19:30.27mmaglisno. I startx from console.
19:30.49golinuxThat's the problem.  You need a login manager
19:31.13golinuxin ascii
19:31.41mmaglisadding input group to my non-root user, I can use xorg with startx now.
19:31.56mmagliswhy do I need a login manager with ascii?
19:32.35golinuxSomething changed in ascii with regard to permissions
19:33.09golinuxNot sure of the details but it's been discussed several times.
19:33.14mmaglisI just migrated to ascii from debian stretch. I have not yet tested all configuration options.
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19:36.38golinuxis trying to find some references
19:37.45golinuxHere you go:
19:37.49golinux- install xserver-xorg-legacy
19:37.49golinux- [if no display manager] add needs_root_rights=yes to
19:37.49golinux/etc/X11/Xwrapper.config
19:38.09golinuxhttps://lists.dyne.org/lurker/message/20170917.174900.a704708a.en.html
19:39.51mmaglismy Xwrapper.config has allowed_users=console
19:40.43mmaglisI will keep a note of this when I try a login manager later.
19:42.12mmaglisI came late to the systemd party. I was busy with life/work and I was moved to systemd by debian "upgrades". The default debian systemd/gnome system was ok for occasional/casual use. As soon as I started building "non-debian-default" systems, I got hit with various systemd "features" that I had to switch to devuan.
19:42.21Guest81358fsmithred: the issue was the kernel
19:42.30Guest81358no idea why it caused an issue with digitalocean
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22:09.18NewGnuGuyIs there any difference between Ubuntu's sudo setup and the setup generated by leaving the root password blank during the install of Debian/Devuan?
22:09.57nacelleobviously.  why?
22:10.21nacelleyou've been asking this question for days
22:10.27nacellepoke at it already
22:10.50fsmithredI second that
22:11.32fsmithredum, instead of leaving it blank, answer "no" when asked if you want a root account
22:12.01fsmithredor do both and tell us if they are the same or not
22:12.17NewGnuGuyI literally have only asked this question once before
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22:14.07gnarfacei'm not sure it even installs sudo by default...  but i think that the config file is different
22:14.58gnarfaceif you're the only person ever using the machine though, you don't really need it
22:15.22NewGnuGuy"it" being...
22:15.29NewGnuGuy?
22:15.29gnarfacesudo
22:15.32gnarfaceyou can use su instead
22:15.52gnarfaceworks differently, but does the same thing essentially
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22:17.14fsmithredI find that using su is easier than sudo. If I need admin rights, I usually need to use more than a single command.
22:18.21NewGnuGuyfsmithred: sudo -i
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22:18.46fsmithredcounting the space, that's five more characters to type
22:19.17gnarfaceyou can use su -c for one-liners too
22:19.31fsmithredI do sometimes set up sudo with no password for shutdown and reboot
22:20.43fsmithredand I would never recommend taking away the user's choice of which way to go
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22:33.06nacellesome of the bsd's dont even have sudo
22:33.10nacelle(openbsd, etc.)
22:33.16nacelleyou have to get it from ports if you really want it
22:33.29nacelle(they have "doas" and su)
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